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Yeah personally here too I had a suicide attempt due to disassociation from his teachings. His teachings taught about death and getting rid of the ego, and I did just that, only to get super disassociated and ungrounded. I tapped super into the spiritual world because of this and attracted demonic spirits which lead me to feeling like I had no other choice besides suicide. After 9 months of trying to recover from the energetic damage that I've done to myself I'm still healing and dealing with some of these issues, and with the help of angels, I will be saved. Also I do agree Leo is arrogant and rude to people on this forum and makes assumptions about people before even knowing them.

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/BJnPBL6KO Here are a few pictures of their "peace" demonstration. Interestingly enough there are many countries including Russia and China that don't recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization. (It's still all about the cold war, the countries that are with america and countries that are against it.) When your culture is war, violence and suicide there can't be peace. They have launched rockets at innocent civilians time after time and they will keep doing so, mark my words. One can't be a peaceful leftist with the constant threat of rockets and lynchings in their own country. Just look at the rise of anti-Semitism around the world. I agree occupation sucks balls, but the Jewish people don't have another place to call home.

Hedonism Through the Stages I've been thinking of where I'm at when it comes to what I want to experience, work towards, and grow into. And I think there is this part of me that wants to live a more hedonistic life style just to get somethings out of my system. When it comes to hedonistic life styles, because western society's center of gravity is stage orange, traditionally we think of the Dan Bilzerian and Jordan Belforts of the world. Filthy rich, expensive sports cars, being surrounded by models, cocaine, etc. It's clearly very egotistical and insatiable. I'm pretty sure there is a trope that is along the lines of rich girl/guy parties, does drugs, chases success but then ends up depressed because they realized that those things don't make them happy and that they are hollow because they never paid attention to the meaningful parts of life. For me, the hedonistic life style I want is more along the lines of stage green hedonism. For me it's along the lines of travelling to countries, exploring different cultures, collecting experiences instead of things, connecting with a ton of people, having an amazing romantic relationship, finding creative work etc. But at the same time, I see the limits of this. Because ultimately, things external to us won't make us happy even if they are something that is more higher consciousness like collecting experiences instead of collecting Lamborghinis. I think a really good example of the limits of stage green hedonism can be seen in Anthony Bourdain's life. His whole thing was travelling, exploring different cultures, having good conversations with the locals while shedding light of the social issues in the area, exploring different cuisines, etc. I don't know what he or really any other celebrity is like when the cameras aren't rolling but from what I remembered, there wasn't any indication from his work of anything being superficial or hollow like what one would think of with stage orange hedonism. His work was very stage green and very heart centered. But he still killed himself. This is such a cliche when it comes to celebrities when the commit suicide where people are like "oh ___ had it all, the money, the power, the success, the fame, the beautiful spouse, and the beautiful home but they were still depressed." And it was similar to how many people reacted to Bourdain's death. But instead of being like "look he had such a well rounded life and he was truly making an impact, but he was still depressed." I'm not someone who is impacted by celebrity deaths mainly because I'm not very tuned into celebrity culture in general. But I remember being 18 and this instance having an impact on me. It felt weird. I liked Bourdain's work but not so much to where I binged his show and was a fan so it wasn't some type of parasocial fixation. Now looking back, I think it was this implicit realization that all of the travelling, all of the good conversations, all of the social justice, all of the quality relationships still won't make me happy. I think part of me back then looked up to Bourdain's life style and saw it as aspirational and knowing that despite all that he was so depressed to where he committed suicide. It felt threatening to my ego because I'm here thinking this will bring me happiness but clearly it actually doesn't based on how he ended up. It was me realizing that stage green hedonism is still a form of hedonism even if society might think it's a more conscious form of it. Stage red hedonism to me is like stage orange but more brutal, gaudy, and animalistic (think golden toilets, hunting lions for sport, and having a gold pleated AK-47). Don't know what stage blue hedonism would look like since that stage is built on repression. I already talked about stage orange and green hedonism. Stage yellow hedonism to me might be along the lines of having this insatiable thirst for knowledge and research because you don't realize that analyzing and thinking too much can make you miserable because it cuts out from being. I really don't know what stage turquoise hedonism would look like. I'm guessing that it would be chasing mystical stages by any means necessary whether it would be doing WAAY too many psychedelics or going to some other super extreme level. So yeah, hedonism isn't isolated to only one stage of the spiral. The reason why I strived for this stage green hedonism when I was 16-18 years old was a reaction against stage orange hedonism and it's definition of a successful, well lived life. I was moving deeper into green and to me the hedonism at stage orange was so obviously limited and hollow to me. I also had a lot of anxiety regarding figuring my life out and becoming an adult and my number one goal was to live the most meaningful and fulfilling life possible without wasting my time of stupid shit. Even now, one of my big fears is wasting the one life I have. I think now I have a healthy dose of nihilism in me to where I can be more carefree, but back then I couldn't sit with that nihilism. I had to find meaning in something or else what even is my life? Why tf am I here? So why is it that after all of this I still want a stage green hedonism? What's different this time around compared to where I was at in my late teens? Me in 2019 and onwards: Now at 21 I see indulging in this stage green hedonism as scratching an itch rather than seeing it as a life style I have to have. It's wanting to travel, make friends, have good conversations, and a significant other but not necessarily needing it. It's being able to enjoy those things instead of getting attached to it as the pinnacle of meaning and fulfillment in life. Again, there is a healthy sense of hedonism. I would compare it to me finding out that I'm going on a yacht party tomorrow. I would enjoy myself and take in that experience, but I wouldn't be yearning for that lifestyle and day dreaming of becoming super wealthy to where going to yacht parties is what brings me meaning and is what is my norm. Travelling and connecting to people is defiantly something that I want but it isn't this deep existential craving that I had in my late teens. The desire is there but my attachment isn't. Me from 2016-2018: In my late teens however, stage green hedonism felt like the blueprint for living an actualized life much like how some people see the glamor of stage orange hedonism as the one should strive for. Rather than being attached to achievement, I was attached to finding meaning. I think there is a part of me that is attached to finding meaning and analyzing things which is why it's rare for me to dip into nihilism. Part of it stemmed from fear particularly the fear of wasting my life or the fear of messing up my life. I still have anxieties regarding those things now but I have worked through a lot of it tbh. Those fears are still here now but they are not anywhere near as existential crisis inducing as it was back then. Back then I really thought those things would bring me happiness. Now I can see those things are something to enjoy but it isn't the end all be all. Because even if you do end up living the stage green hedonistic lifestyle of your dreams, if you don't take care of other areas of your life and work through your regular human shit and the traumas that you accumulated, well you're still going to be miserable. In my late teens I understood the importance of working on myself but my understanding back then wasn't as deep as it is now. There was still a part of me back then that thought happiness is external. There is still a part of me now that is like that based on the complaining I do on here but I'd say that I have become better than before.

Welcome to all. Hope you have some thick skin. You'll need it! ? My 2 cents is I think suicide threads should be shut down and the user PM'd by the new mods willing to deal with emotional issues. This really isn't the format for those types of threads.

That's a good feedback I very much appreciate whatever you're doing for the forum. Also I would like to add to guide people to not overlook objectivity while following spiritual concepts. I messaged you a long feedback on this. Also change forum guidelines and add more disclaimers for suicide and body harm, psychedelics and mahasamadhi etc. On the main page of the guidelines

Antinatalists hold that because birth is the cause of all suffering, not reproducing is the highest act of love and empathy for your would-be child. I held a strongly antinatalist view of reproduction until my first LSD trip last year. In this trip, I seen a girl who I recognized as being my daughter. I watched snippets of her whole life as she grew up into an intelligent and loving person. This left me feeling shaken and uncomfortable as it was such a dramatically antithetic theme to what I had believed. I've tried focusing on this in subsequent trips in order to wrap this up and come to some conclusion, but instead I am still extremely conflicted. Before this trip, I had spent 4 years deeply depressed with a suicide attempt under my belt from before I began self actualizing, This trip showed me that life is a gift, darknesss is light, and that this experience, this place, this thing, is the most profound beauty that exists. It gave me an entirely new perspective on life. Still though, even if we argue that life's joys make it worth its suffering (for those of us in first world countries etc anyway), the fact remains that a child does not choose to exist, reproduction is awful for the environment, and the world is already overpopulated. Breeding is a gamble with someone else's life to make a mini-me. Most people are horrible parents.

I've been working out daily which has had a positive effect on my sleep, I've been sleeping well these past few days and I don't feel the the urge to lay in bed after I wake up. I've been struggling with loneliness again lately and I'm not sure what to do, none of my solutions in the past were very effective and I just got past that phase after a while. I'm trying to accept that it's something I'll have to ride out again but it's tough. I don't have a lot of meaningful human contact throughout the day so that seems like the obvious cause of my loneliness but part of me wonders if there's something deeper, I'm not too sure. I've been trying to connect with my family better lately. I talk with my immediate family occasionally but I'm not very open with them and it's really sad the more I think about it, our conversations feel formal and they're similar to how I'd talk with my apartment neighbors when we share an elevator. I called my brother to see how he was doing and he sounded glad to hear from me, we used to be really close but we've drifted apart over the years. I realized lately that I've never been 100% open and honest with anyone in my life, that doesn't sound very healthy when I write it down like this. I want to open up to my brother about my recent struggles and my thoughts of suicide, I feel like it would be nice to tell someone but at the same time I'm hesitant because I don't want to offload my emotional problems on him and overwhelm him.

One that occurred to me recently while thinking about the recent suicide: Leo gives you the impression that death = infinite unconditional love-bliss, complete understanding, total onenss and all the other facets of enlightenment. Though he clearly and overtly discourages his viewers from doing any physical harm to themselves, some will inevitably jump to that conclusion, thinking themselves to be so fed up with life, or such a spiritual badass that they can take a short cut and jump straight to enlightenment by suicide. The bias of course being that Leo and everyone else alive reading this are alive. Whatever levels of consciousness are reached, that consciousnes also resides in a living human body looking through physical eyes. What if maybe, possibly, perhaps, "enlightenment" as anyone can conceive of it from the human perspective, is only possible for incarnated beings. What if those who have died before reaching that level of consciousness in their lifetime do not become instantly "enlightened" upon death, and instead, will return in physical form for as many lifetimes as it takes before that self-realization unfolds while alive? I can't claim to know, point is that having mystical experiences of any sort, while giving you sharable insights into reality, doesn't necessarily mean you know what would happen (in the proximate sense) after anyone else becomes physically dead for real, permanently.

I am pursuing enlightenment since many years. And I often feel the urge to post on my facebook account that Life is a dream in infinite mind of god, You are God, There is no others etc Post like that. I posted many times enlightenment sayings such as of ramana maharshi , Allan Watts, Muktananada, Ram Das, Adyashanti etc. Now people have stopped liking my post . I have witness people are not liking my post more as compared to previous. They think I am strange and weird. And after suicide of that person on this forum , it concern me whether I am doing even something right by posting on timeline that you are God, There is no others etc. And other enlightenment sayings. Most of my friends on facebook are very religious. And worship gods. And I am highly spiritually and into enlightenment. And several times felt urge to post such things on my facebook . Is this my EGO that is posting such posts . As I am showing off look guys I am into spirituality. Can it harm other people by discovering the TRUTH?? As most of the people are religious and worship gods . And have full faith in their religious. I sometimes feel urge to write Truth on facebook Publicly .

@Understander I dont know I often feel the urge out of lonliness to post TRUTH on Facebook. And I have done it several times. But after the suicide of one person on this forum , I wonder whether posting radical think can trigger depression . What if they find the truth and started believing it and went to depression ? They will probably brush off my post as they are religious. In fact most of them dont even like my enlightenment post. Now my likes has decreased since then. Like volume has decreased since I started opening myself up more. I want to clear that most of my friends on facebook are religious and worship their gods.

@Zeroguy Ok I am sorry. Please don't joke about suicide though or say that anybody's suicide is understandable like this. It is really hard to distinguish between what you mean seriously and what you do not mean seriously, I hope you are aware of that. I appreciate your concern and I am sorry I was not able to recognize it.

Thank you for sharing your insights. In the area of shame, there can be feeling/thoughts of "There is something wrong with me and I can't tell anyone about it". This can elevate a minor condition to a severe condition. Cecilia McGough speaks about how the worse part of dealing with her schizophrenia is not the voices inside her head, it is the voices outside of her head - the voices and energy of real people around her and maltreatment. She attempted suicide not to escape the voices in her head, yet rather to escape the voices of people around her. She describes that she had a delusional fear of a woman stalking her, yet her fear of real people finding out about her and maltreating her was much worse.

@Zeroguy I honestly assumed that you saying that you would understand Leo's suicide was not meant seriously.

I read all his messagaes in this thread but I haven´t found, where exactly he made fun of people commiting suicide. But I found a message (or two), where he writes, he would want it for himself

@Mu_ Of course I'll be honest, I'm not trying to win, I genuinely want to understand where you guys are coming from. I feel for the pain of of other animals, but no where as near as I should because then I'd be a vegan. It's a hypocrisy on my part and I acknowledge it. never really thought of other potential life forms so no that doesn't bother me. As for insects it's much harder for me to sympathize with them because I don't even know if they are conscious let alone experience pain. Things coming and falling apart bothers me in the short term, but I accept it in the long term. I will say, although I'm not so scared of my ego dying I still get scared of not experiencing consciousness at all after death. Uncomfortable and really uncomfortable experiences don't bother me. It's hardcore pain like torture, war, and rape that's do personally bother me and does make me see that the universe in a more negative light. Also while I acknowledge some people do love pain, it's one thing to consent experiencing it vs somebody else getting it when they don't consent, driving them to suicide (chronic pain in body).

@Hulia He was making fun of people committing suicide and jumping off a bridge. This is not jokeable about here, we need to make this message clear. Even if you mean it as a joke, a human might interpret it as something else, it might be insensitive towards the family, who are humans, or trigger someone who is suicidal.

I think what makes this much more acceptable is that people are aware that this will happen in advance in much cases. For example with sadhguru's wife, everyone knew 9 months in advance. It's totally different than just killing yourself without telling anyone and then your wife and 2 young kids just find out unexpectedly. It's not conscious if you are unconscious of the harm it will cause to your loved ones. Mahasamadhi will never fix your problems though. If you think you have problems or if you think there's a self that wants to die, you're not awake. Then it's not mahasamadhi, just some dumb suicide branded as "conscious" for the ego.

Maybe. But I think there's so much stuff which we don't know. Maybe it's possible to die consciously by damaging the body, because maybe full control over the life force in the body is a separate skill. Or maybe there is no difference between unconscious and conscious death, maybe all deaths are the same. Food for thought (just a mind game): what if proper mahasamadhi would be easy to do? What if in average 1 actualized follower per month or something would do mahasamdhi, would you still support proper mahasamdhi or would you condemn it? I think you would then condemn it. You would be forced to.. Of course there happened stuff after the camera stopped recording. Maybe they checked his pulse. Maybe he continued living. Maybe he committed normal physical suicide after the camera stopped recording (maybe it was a normal suicide faked as mahasamdhi). Etc.

Well that video doesn't prove anything whatsoever. And it definitely doesn't prove that he died. And I don't understand why people think it's ok to committ suicide without damaging the body, but it's absolutely not ok to committ suicide by damaging the body.

❤ Creation, Creativity, the Mother, Earth, Nourishment, Emotions, Feeling, life as art is the side of spirituality that gives birth and celebrates life. When you're focused on that ego death and physical death don't get confused. Life IS already your creative license, you're freedom itself. Many people try to kill their egos from a point of feeling fundamentally flawed and unworthy of life echoed in a dissatisfaction with life. It'll never work. You'll never get there. You're loved so much, as Love itself, there's no end to you. Interesting that the male suicide rate is far higher than that of females. If there's space made for emotions, space for healing, emotional intelligence and understanding of emotions as a guidance system, I suspect that this tragic and painful mix up and misunderstanding will occur far less. ?

Yes I am. I want salvation and complete liberation from dreams. Eternal black state. Suicide is not an option it's idiotic.

I sent my PM. This is along the lines of my life purpose. Logic points me to think that it would fit like a glove. I’ve already been trying to do this stuff for years and have talked multiple people from suicide and other crisis situations before. Dealing with Bipolar Depression

Another one I thought of is "life being hard itself" may prevent suicide in that we find some joy to conquering how hard it is. We find joy in overcoming things that we didn't think we could overcome. As leo has said in one of his recent videos, if life was easy, it would be too boring. although it could be so hard that it is hard to find joy in anything so I can see that it would be tough. The happy medium of not being too hard nor too easy is one to strive for. Too easy - too bored. Too hard - don't want to participate anymore. When we see it is a game though - we may want to back out of the game but see that that would hurt our friends who are in the game and we have attachment to them. There is also that once left the game, you are gone from it forever and that kinda doesn't let you explore the game anymore.

We need more disclaimers that the teachings here do not promote suicide. So a person who connects such teachings to suicide will think twice about it It's extremely irresponsible to take the teachings out of context and blame the suicide on these teachings. More warnings in videos and constant disclaimers around these teachings from both Leo and mods For example when someone gives spiritual advice please put disclaimers in paranthesis that it shouldn't be used to cause body harm. This way the blame is not on the forum and the person won't associate such advice with suicide plans. The spiritual advice in these posts could have easily been accompanied with disclaimers of no body harm.

This is still within the context of a thing called "death". This is the standard realm we are all familiar with. Yet Sunny clearly stated he was not in this realm (or wanted to transcend it). He said it was not an escape nor an ending. It was a transcendence. He was happy and had a great life. Based on what we know, he wasn't trying to escape and end suffering. He wasn't trying to end this life in hope for a better reincarnated life. This is difficult for most people to understand because they are so oriented toward escaping suffering and gaining joy. An analogy, imagine you are walking in a forest and encounter a mountain lion. You will feel fear and want to escape from the lion. You want to survive. You have a gf and are planning on having a child. This is at the human/personal level. The person identifies as me and wants to do whats best for me. Here's the hard part. Imagine identification is with the entire forest. Now "me" = "the forest". So now what is best for "me"? Well, if "me" is the forest than it might be best that the lion eats the person. Notice how it's all "me". This sounds insane from a personal level, yet it is not insane from a transcendent level. . . In the opposite direction, there are misfolded proteins in your cells that get digested and recycled. Yet you don't care because "me" isn't a misfolded protein and you aren't concerned what's best for that misfolded protein. Rather "me" is ALL of the cells in "my" body and I care about what's best for the entire body. If misfolded proteins accumulate, all sorts of diseases result. Therefore it's best that those misfolded proteins get digested and recycled. From personal/human perspective, this won't make sense and it may even seem psychotic. . . How could someone compare a human being to a misfolded protein!!?? Yet from a transcendent perspective, notice how there is no "escape" or "ending". In the first example, after the person is eaten by a lion, "me" (the forest) still exists. The forest hasn't escaped itself or ended. Similarly, after the misfolded protein is digested there is still the human being. There was no "escape" or "ending". Now imagine a person is oscillating back and forth between identifying as "me" being the human body and "me" being the forest. Sometimes the identification is the entire forest, sometimes it is contracted within the human body. There may be desire to transcend attachment / identification to the human body and become the entire forest. At the human/personal level, this is madness and insanity. Yet at a transhuman metaphysical level, it is sane. And this isn't unique to actualized. Humans have been reaching these transcendent states for thousands of years. Analogies that life is a dream goes waaaay back in time. This is nothing new. Yes, at a human/personal level is was scattered and misunderstood reasoning. Yet at a transhuman metaphysical level, it gets trickier. I'm in no way suggesting killing oneself. Yet from a transhuman metaphysical level, the idea of "killing", "oneself" and "death" are very different. Notice how in spiritual circles there is metaphysical talk about how there is no birth or death. Yet when a being kills themself, the spiritual circle immediately snaps back to the human/personal level and says "Oh wait. . . yea. There is death. Believing there is no death is foolish". At this time, Leo is only willing to discuss the issue at the personal / human level. Not a transhuman / metaphysical level. @RendHeaven I agree with you. Yet I want to strongly stress that these are not Leo's teachings or actualized. Teachings about transcending the human mind-body, death is illusory, everything is a dream etc. is standard nonduality and metaphysics. We might consider it advanced, yet it is not unique to Leo or actualized. People like Deepak Chopra talk in these terms regularly. As well, Leo promotes transcendence via psychedelics. I understand why Leo would revert to the personal/human level because he is dealing with others at the personal/human level. If he communicated at a transhuman/metaphysical level (like we are in this thread), it would be misinterpreted and there would be a huge backlash. Yet at the same time, I'm really disappointed that Sunny has been portrayed as a "fool that misinterpreted teachings" and very few people on the forum questioned it. I thought more people were at a higher conscious level. I think it's a real issue regarding transcendence that should be addressed, rather than swept under the rug. I also think it is good that Leo is now stressing "ego death" rather than "physical death". Again, I am not condoning suicide for transcendence. I'm trying to understand the conscious state in which a being would take their physical life to transcend it. I think this mentality is important to understand how we communicate.