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There is nothing in death that cannot be in life. There is no benefit in suicide. You can be at peace and feel awesome right here in life. You can have it all, because you are home and you are free. Do not underestimate the power of simply opening up. You got nothing to lose in being open and expressing emotions. You matter, and each one of us encourage you to talk to someone.

First of all, suicide is futile. It is just another way of getting to an alleged better state or experience. What you are missing is that every experience and every state, including death or blissful ecstasy, only appears within that which is already perfect, free, blissful, complete, happy. Your longing for better state is precisely how Absolute Freedom expresses itself. So it does not matter what you will do, it will never get you anything. Second, no, your parents will not suffer because there is no you to begin with. All relationships are illusion. Your parents are Nothing, pretending to be some separate form, which can form bonds with other forms, just like you. However, within this illusion of relationship suffering may arise due to the attachment to relationships. When Nothing is formed as a human organism, it tends to fall under the spell of separateness, which "hides" the simple truth that everything that exists is how Nothing manifests. In other words, you and your parents are not really separate, but suffering or emotional pain can appear to happen, although no one really suffer. Third, life is mystery dancing as form. There is nothing to gain or get or acheive from it. You can either fight the dance and try to create the next better state or experience, or surrender to what already is, which is the case, and let life continue its dance without separateness and seeking.

mine too but a while ago most people struggle, some more some less, but most of the struggle isn't as personal as you think i don't think suicide is an option at this point

Don't use this work to justify suicide. You may know that everything is imaginary, but that doesn't mean your parents do. You killing yourself will surely guarantee suffering for them.

Call now. Do not wait. Don’t ruminate on misinformation. Call. http://www.suicide.org/hotlines/international-suicide-hotlines.html Yes, as was said, they will suffer tremendously and their lives will effectively be ruined. But more importantly imo… whatever it is… it is felt far worse un-expressed, as a ‘secret’. Allow the experience of talking with a trained specialist. There is much, much, much love here for you. ? Feel free to reach out anytime!

@Tyler Durden First of all that is wrong to say NOW taking account of the situation and also that is quite wrongly worded, because even if you all actualized.org users would go to commit suicide "I" would be here and I would register that which happened. Would you see that your loved ones suffer? - no, because you wouldn't exist then to see that. But still our job NOW when it is about someones life we need to be extremely sharp when we answer.

I don't think their suicide had anything to do with the video. At least in the case of the first guy.

Evidence supporting a link between dental amalgams and chronic illness, fatigue, depression, anxiety, and suicide

@lostingenosmaze That's valid point and I agree that this could be on every video, but the thing is that people should be caution with anything they do. Even when eating candies you could choke or bit your finger off. Should everything be done like America that microwaves have warning labels that cats shouldn't be inside when the microwave is on? I just wanted to point out that there are actually warnings and where else do you see about 10 hours of high quality content of JUST WARNINGS. Of course suicides and suicide attempts happen all the time and we can't avoid all of them and my honest opinion is that Leo has done exellent work in preventing that. If Leos videos help millions of people and saves lifes and then there have been one certified suicide and couple of suicide attempts then I would call that very good statics. Don't fall into the trap of not seeing the forest for the trees. This is actually pretty good moment to do Leo's practise of accepting things even if they are very shocking. We need to get out of our heads and think logically this thing and when you try to see this thing without acting from the feelings you could see what I try to point out. We need to accept things like they are now and if we have some feedback to Leo there is possibility to do that on his blog site or just in this forum, but the thing is that we can't come to him agressively, because that makes this comminity toxic and how could we then practise gratitude, love, calming mind or anything spiritual <3 Hope that people could finally understand that, because I have now sent like 10 messages to this topic about basic logic and appreciating an awesome content of Leo.

If Neph had contacted him once or twice or just asked for advice from the forum, Leo's reaction would be harsh and out of line. Thing is he contacted Leo several times, not just asking for advice. He explicitly blamed Leo as the cause of him being suicidal, that Leo was personally on the hook for solving his problems, and he took no personal responsibility for his role. Threatening suicide to force a relationship or reaction out of someone is emotional extortion. I understand you'd have to be in great pain to say that, and I have compassion for anyone in a dark situation like that. But if you're in the public eye you constantly have to deal with people blaming you for things you have nothing to do with. You have to be firm about expectations and responsibilities with fans (aka: strangers) so they don't get the wrong impression. So I have sympathy for both Leo and Neph.

I think 2 people commited suicide after the enlightenment video series because they misundestood liberation with death, so yes, it's dangerous for average people.

@Nahm one of the reasons i got hooked by actualized.org is because of the lax psychedelics policy. i know plenty of people who messed up their psyche with drugs - i know plenty who didn’t, only some can take them repeatedly while staying sane to a point. i doubt its the best choice for a forum who has a section about depression and psychological issues. there is one case of suicide connected to the forum where someone tried to heal himself using psychedelics instead of seeking psychological, psychatrical help. psychedelics further create confusion while some people need more clarity. its mainly for people who already had a stick up their a** and not exactly for creative people with already issues getting along with reality. if someone is already floating in space sober, you don’t tell them to let go of security lines, because then the experience would be so much more exciting. worst case scenario after letting go, flying away with the spaceship, because there are other exciting realities to explore. @FlyingLotus leo doesn’t teach much about psychedelics in the videos, it’s not the reason why people start writing in the forum. most do because they have some issues to deal with, or because they made the step to buy the life purpose course.

Are you saying the reason not a single other spiritual teacher on that list warns against ‘the dangers of spirituality’ and Leo does, is money? I’m not following your logic here. Had you said he can’t afford not to, because his income is contingent on clicks, that would seem logical. Can you explain further how, because he can afford to, is the reason he ‘warns against the dangers of spirituality’, and none of the other teachers do? How is meditation the cause of ‘the dangers’? How is psychedelics the cause of ‘the dangers’? How is Leo (implied) “teaching psychedelics”? I’ve taken em. Seems like the psychedelic essentially is the teacher. So to speak, not one single person ever said a single thing to me about psychedelics, to this day, maybe two hundred or more trips, not one single iota of ‘dangers of spirituality’, or ‘dangers of psychedelics’. Never projected a single thought onto the psychedelics, let a lot of beliefs and behaviors, like projection, go. This is circular logic. The ‘risks involved’ are the content. Helping one to recognize thought attachment is “coddling and lying out of guilt”? Not following that logic either. Seems like a justification via an implication of intensity limited options. I see the user mentioned an attempted suicide. I do not see the “manipulating people” or the “threatening suicide”. I might be missing that though, the thread’s a bit long. If one is commenting, why does not demeaning someone equal “becoming his close, personal, one-on-one guru”?

-Leo can afford to release episodes about the risks of spirituality because his revenue is based on Youtube clicks, not selling products. Those teachers are selling mainstream products (many of them are good products!) It’s not smart marketing to tell customers all the stuff that could go wrong with the stuff they’re buying . -Those teachers mostly teach meditation, lectures and journalling, which have a lot less risk than psychedelics. However, as Neph’s case shows, meditation still has dangers. The fact that those teachers don’t say anything about the risks of their work is negligent on their part. -Leo’s videos are very clear about the risks involved with various spiritual practices. His forums posts might not always be clear, but is it really his fault if people willfully choose to ignore his videos and don’t do proper research? -Some Youtuber isn’t going to help Neph with his problems as effectively as family, friends and an in person therapist. It’s good for Neph’s well-being to be honest about that instead of Leo coddling and lying to him out of guilt. -I do think that anyone who’s experiencing suicidal ideation deserves compassion and help, but they don’t have the right to manipulate people and threaten suicide because they’re in pain. It's not in their own best interest to get rewarded for that behavior. -My heart goes out to Neph. I feel sorry that he has to go through this situation. I’m glad his condition has stabilized and it’s awesome that you’ve offered to help him ?. However, Leo still has the right to not become his close, personal, one-on-one, unpaid guru.

It’s interesting you see it that way. To me it reads as Leo setting a firm, clear, healthy boundary. OP’s msg reads as wanting close, one-on-one attention from Leo and not just good advice. I can think of at least three different people on the forum who’ve tried to get personal attention from Leo by threatening suicide, and that’s just in the last year. It reminds me of an article I read about Jackie Chan. Back in the 80s he announced his engagement to his now wife, and two of his female fans attempted suicide. One even did it in front of his office. He visited one of them to be a nice, helpful guy and this just inspired more of his fans to attempt suicide. They were all hoping to get some personal attention from him (and of course they had other mental illnesses going on). Thing is, Jackie would’ve been better off making a blanket statement against suicide or not giving them any attention at all. If you’re in the public eye and people keep trying to get your attention with bad behavior, doesn’t it make sense to not reward that behavior? To me it does, even if it means being blunt and sorta unsympathetic. So Leo’s “coldness” isn’t a knock against @Neph personally. It’s about maintaining strong boundaries with everybody so he can do his work.

@Leo Gura would you ever make your own retreats for people to visit? I know you don't want to deal with the cult stuff and whatever And if people already threaten suicide on the forum, what would happen in a retreat? but..... i think generally much more could be learned in the real thing than over the internet. it could be cool have Satsang and hire some cool nurses who plug the good stuff you know I know that the guy from the "here we are" podcast for example organised mushroom retreats in Jamaica

@Neph What do you want Leo to say? If someone attempts suicide then it seems like an appropriate response to tell him to seek professional help. Mental issues can be hard to deal with and no answer that Leo makes will be adequate. When I had mental issues (depression) I went to an hour long session once a week for 2 years.

If you are raising kundalini you should be aware of the many issues and dangers that come with that and you should already have prepared methods and resources for how to deal with it. I have a book on my book list that specifically talks about the dangers of kundalini and offers various solutions and troubleshooting strategies. If you are doing Kriya yoga, most Kriya yoga books warn about the dangers of raising kundalini too rapidly. The "misuse" in this case is simply going into the process too naively and not taking the risks and warnings seriously. And also not having enough knowledge and research for what to do when you start to unravel. For example, if your kundalini starts bothering you, obviously you should have enough knowledge and intelligence to then go see a dedicated kundalini expert who can give you suggestions and guide you through the difficulties. Instead of just letting it spiral out of control to the point of suicide. Likewise, if you start having signs of mental illness or instability then you should have enough intelligence to hire a therapist or professional for guidance. I expect this kind of intelligence as a default from people doing serious spiritual work.

but seeking professional help to get some stability and get grounded for a while isn't a horrible advice if you had an attempted suicide or not?

I am not your babysitter. You have been warned about the dangers of spiritual work. What you do with spirituality is all on you. You can use it wisely or foolishly. You can use it for love or for evil. This is completely on you. If you decide to harm your body, I will certainly not be taking responsibility for that. I have said repeatedly that that has nothing to do with what I teach. If you are suicidal, seek professional mental help. I am not going to guide you out of your suicide nor mental health issues. It should be obvious that my spiritual teachings are DIY -- Do It Yourself.

It's more empowering to think of your mental health as mental fitness, something that you have direct influence of as opposed to some terminal diagnosis. Now I'm not diminishing any major disorders (I have one myself after all) but just like someone bound to a wheelchair you can still exercise and make the best out of your situation as opposed to giving up, getting fat and feeling powerless to change or improve. The more I've delved into developmental psychology, philosophy, meditation (thanks leo!) the more I've come to the conclusion that mental health is kind of a misleading term. There are so many things you can do to change the state of your consciousness, memory, creativity, focus etc. that are action oriented - like exercising for the body. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and had a traumatic childhood which left me fairly "unhealthy" mentally. Smoking a bunch of pot didn't help longterm (although it did push the pain away enough to avoid suicide which was a real concern for years.) These diagnosis or stories we tell ourselves "I have anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder" can turn into learned helplessness and limiting beliefs. Obviously depression and anxiety are different from conditions like schizophrenia and bipolar (which don't "go away" as easily) but kind of like type 1 vs. type 2 diabetic you will always have type 1. but you can manage your symptoms to the point where it's not a factor as opposed to type 2 which you can actually cure yourself of through diet and exercise (see Jason Fungs The Obesity Code.)

If it wasn't for leo I don't know if I had started my spiritual journey... I followed his meditation techniques & it worked for me.. My kundalini got awoken.. But it was a dangerous energy to live with.. I didn't know how to handle It...It drove me mentally insane.. And at the end I couldn't control it & attempted suicide & injured my hand... But when I confronted leo about this all he had to say is that you should seek professional help for your mental issues.. Like seriously dude that's all you got to say to me... Which makes me question did leo have a kundalini awakening?.. Like did he have any awakening?.. I had put so much trust & faith in this guy & that's how it ended up..I had expected better answers from you leo..

This was the most recent video of Mr. Girl reading internal emails between healthy gamer coaches. I made either a thread or post about the probability of Mr. Girl wanting a discussion with Dr. K, and the likelihood of such a discussion going sort of south in the past, don't know where it is, but I thought it's not gonna likely happen, but clearly the current situation is Mr. Girl is serious in wanting not just to discuss with Dr. K, but to even go as far as canceling him from being an online therapist to gamers, in relation to the suicide of Reckfull! Mr. Girl is , in my opinion and intuition, like the rough equivalent of Jesus Christ getting angry at the jewish priests in the temple. However, I don't know much about the situation with Reckfull suicide, nor have the feeling that Dr. K was obviously malicious. I get the sense Mr Girl wants Dr. K to confess his sins before him. What are your thoughts about this situation? Do you think Mr. Girl is trolling, or is Mr. Girl being serious? From a spiral Dynamics/Integral theory modal, do you think that because of the differences in terms of values, cognition, morality, personality typing/ego psyche, life domains and states of consciousness that Mr. Girl is viewing Dr. K as sort of the bad guy that is more responsible in part for Reckfull's lead up to his suicide? Do you think, from the perspective of ego development and shadow work, that Mr. Girl's reaaction is a projection of the differences in terms of spiritual development between the two? I'll continue over time discussing this because Mr. Girl, while not fully at stage yellow, lacks the systems thinking or conceptualisation of systems, it's values, it's higher order thinking, is having like a stage green emotional triggering towards Dr. K, whose also due to his spiritual development and study of psychology has found a niche of being an online 'therapist' for gamers. It's very interesting to me because Mr. Girl is very authentic, has a slightly different personality typing and morality, and if they ever will have a discussion, I think the discussion will become very heated.

@Bob Seeker I know you weren't asking me, but I don't think anyone would choose suicide because we could still read spirituality books and practice spirituality in prison. So even in such an unfortunate circumstance, we would still have plenty of free time and hopefully a few information sources with which to obsess over our little hobby. I hope this reply gave you dopamine. May you seek well, friend.