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1) please quote of there is a quote 2) The statement everything = nothing is similar to duality = nonduality Devil = God oness = duality one = all big = small hate = love 3) Given the fact that I am God and everybody else is do the most well known people who speak on and consider themselves nondualists consider themselves theists or atheists? Do most do the most well known people who speak on and consider themselves nondualists use the word God? This is not a rhetorical question I don't know and am not saying that whatever the majority of them do is the correct thing

Logic is not transcended through logic. Sense is not transcended by making sense. This is the challenge for a logical, sensible mind. I'm trying to think logically here. . . Rather than imagining Everything as a collection of all individual things, imagine One Everything. There is no thing separate from One Everything. We cannot say "All those things over there is Everything, yet this thing is separate from Everything". . . . The is no thing that is not Everything. No thing = One Everything. There is truth and knowing prior to proof. For example, imagine there was a murder. Is there truth to that murder prior to proof? What if there was no evidence/proof of the murder. Which comes first, the truth of the murder or evidence/proof of the murder? Truth is first order and evidence/proof is second order. Similarly with knowing. There is knowing that comes prior to evidence/proof. . . Imagine you have a headache. How do you know you are experiencing pain in your head? Do you need to undergo brain scans to show neural activity as evidence of your pain? Do you need a neurologist to prove to you that you are experiencing pain in your head? What if the neurologist couldn't find evidence/proof of that you have head pain? . . . The knowing of that head pain is prior to evidence/proof of that head pain. That's hard to answer because nonduality isn't really a thing. If I were to try and answer those questions, I would keep saying that the opposite is also true and that there is an infinite number of partial truths. It would be like asking "Is what is, is?" , "Is ISness theism or atheism?", "Is the term 'God' the term 'God''?". It doesn't make sense, yet that is part of the beauty and magic of it. . . For nondual understanding, direct experience and awakening is much much more profound than analysis and conceptualization. If you want nondual exposure, there are many great speakers, youtube videos and practices. Yet ime, the fastest most certain way for direct nondual experience would be to take a psychedelic.

1) what is the logic or proof behind the statement Everything = Nothing ? How do you know it makes sense? 2) Does non duality mean everything = nothing? 3) Do most adherents of nonduality consider themselves theists or atheists? 4) Is the term "God" appropriate for someone who is a nondualist? thanks

@Nak Khid Look around the room you are in. See it as One Everything. Point to a thing that isn't One Everything. There is no-thing that isn't Everything. There is Nothing to contrast Everything with. I could give many examples of meaningful practical applications. Yet any example of meaning would be relative. Thus, there is no proof of objective universal meaning. Yet, there is truth prior to "proof". . . Have you ever searched for proof that now is now? Of course not, because the truth of now is prior to any evidence/proof of now. It would be more accurately categorized as "nonduality" The Einstein quote is an insight in a certain context, yet it goes much more radical. The Einstein quote asserts that there are so many things in existence that the human mind cannot comprehend it all. This is true. Yet it isn't what is being pointed to as Everything. This is more radical and goes beyond logic. This is intuitive since logic must be within it. One cannot transcend logic with logic. . . Direct experience becomes key.

@Leo Gura I understand completely. However, I definitely would not call my online publishing businesses soul-crushing or painful. I'm even building brands around meditation and spirituality to help introduce people to these topics who aren't ready for the full-blown nonduality side of things. On top of that, I'm coaching others now and helping them grow their businesses which is very fulfilling. I've also recently upgraded all the products (Books) I provide and the system makes sure each book we publish is very high quality and provides solutions to the customers' needs and actually helps them. I've also started my own fiction brand which requires minimal work as me and my partner have a coach who does the majority of the work for a % split, and that alone will hopefully provide substantial income after the 3-year contract is up. In terms of my own businesses, I'm beginning to outsource a lot of the work and training employees to my quality standards, therefore I know in a couple of years fully outsourcing this to where I max spend 5-10 hours a week on it will not be any issue at all, while at least maintaining similar earnings. It could also lead to my LP as it is possible to build a brand around near enough any sort of topic. Right now I completely feel this is what I want to devote my next 2-5 years too, maybe that's being stupid but it allows me incredible freedom to work on Personal Development, Health& Fitness and my Spirituality (working with Ramaji and Ananda (RASA)) and have seen amazing results in the areas in the last 6 months. Have you ever heard about how Purpose can work in 3's? I was contemplating this as I feel one of my purposes is to do with helping people achieve financial freedom as I have always been passionate about Business, Investing etc, but I also feel one day I want to become a Spiritual Teacher, however I wouldn't want to do that until I am completely finished and ready, as there's too many people I believe who simply try and talk the Ego to death and it rarely works, I endlessly listened to Eckhart/ Rupert etc for almost 2 years, and while the theory is helpful it doesn't really allow you to reach the highest levels of self-realization and is easy to take that 'back seat' route. Onto number 3 and I'm extremely passionate about Health/ Fitness, Sports (as you know from my posts lol) and Biohacking or even finding ways people can optimize their health and how they feel. Maybe you think I'm being stupid or wasting my time, but what feels right to be right now is to grow my businesses to the levels I have in mind, and keep providing products that are helping/ entertaining readers in various areas of life, and that to me is far from soul-crushing, I also did this to avoid going to University and going down a corporate route related to Investment Banking, Accounting, etc where corruption can certainly be rife. This is a stupidly long reply and I have waffled on for a while, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say

Same here. I feel that it's the right thing to do in my life but at the same time cannot really comprehend most of the nonduality videos. Maybe I'm just pursuing it because Leo whom I respect talks about it all the time but deep inside I am not ready and won't be for many years to come because I haven't fulfilled my purpose and material needs yet.

I find many of Leo's videos to be similar to ACIM. In this video from about 1 hour and 8 minutes Leo explains that to erase evil requires removing evil from oneself, which in turn as I understand it is to remove the sense of separation in oneself, and that sense of separation is also the foundation of the ego. Edit: Leo's explanation is a bit lukewarm here though it seems to me. I think that removing the evil in oneself also means that one's physical body can no longer be harmed. Otherwise there is a split between mental evil and physical evil and that's duality, not nonduality. And I believe evil will be eradicated from the entire world within a few decades. Leo says in the video that there will be evil still many centuries to come.

Here I found yet another spiritual teacher, Paul Hedderman, talking about ACIM. Hedderman is a nonduality teacher. They seem to like ACIM! In another video he said something like how the self cannot experience the self. Very good point. In a sense everything is the Self yet I see the truth of there needing to be a duality for experience to happen.

@Javfly33 A few thoughts: 1. Low/moderate doses of psychedelics can be great for dissolving the sense of self and revealing one-ness without going into some bizarro reality. Yet keep in mind, that when the conditioned mind returns, it will want to contextualize the experience and make sense of it. The mind may create all sorts of thought stories. These can have practical value for the person/human, yet these thought stories aren't actual - they are contextualizations. The human mind has attachments/identification to a thought story of "me". At a deeper level, there is attachment/identification to experience and feelings. Awareness of all this is a major expansion. Yet the awareness doesn't mean the underlying attachment/identification to that self dissolves. There is recognition and there is embodiment. 2. Recognizing the illusory nature of self does not mean conditioned impulses in the mind-body will suddenly stop. A nondual realization will not cure someone's broken leg and will not stop pain impulses in the mind and body. It is the relationship to those impulses that changes. There is an energetic shift. Mentally, it may be a "game-changer" and relieve a lot of personal anxiety and neuroses. Yet conditioned neurotic impulses may still appear in the mind. 3. The human mind is conditioned to perceive duality it's entire life. The first glimpses of nonduality will seem radical and cause a sense of instability and groundlessness. The mind might start thinking "Who am I?", "Do I even exist?", "What is the point of doing anything in life?". This can cause discomfort in the mind and body. . . I am a big proponent of following one's true desires. If the mind and body reacts with strong resistance/anxiety and says "Whoa, this is too much - we need to slow down and get our life together" - I would honor that. We don't want to traumatize the mind and body. If you were climbing Mt. Everest and the body started hyper-ventilating and went into hypothermia, we would pause and allow the body to recover. 4. Follow your true desires. All there is, is this moment you are having right now. This moment is Home. The deepest human desire is to return Home to this moment.

Glimpses of nonduality are often contextualized as solipsism by the personal self. Solipsism is a cognitive construct - there is a prior to that construct. Solipsism is still dualistic. It sees others as unreal and it's self as real. Therefore thoughts like "i am all alone" arise. That is only a half-truth. If others are not real, that means that i am not real as well. This is the next step: to realize "i am not real". You keep using the terms "i" and "me" in a personal context. How can "i" be all alone if there is no "i"? There is no "i" to be all alone. Nonduality is much more radical. In nonduality ALL selves are nonexistent. Other selfs and my self do not exist. Cloaking a personal "me" as a transcendent "Me" is a sneaky trick of the ego. Remove the cloak and realize there is no "me". There is no point to all your questions because they all assume there is a thing called "me". Consider the following questions: How much money do I need to invest in feeding my unicorn? Where is the best place to train my baby unicorn to fly? How can I keep my unicorn in my yard? Won't it fly away? Do I need to get a licence to own a unicorn? I have two dogs that are very territorial - how can I protect my baby unicorn from my dogs? . . . We could go on and on and on. . . All of these questions are a waste of time because they all assume that a unicorn is real. . . The questions are a distraction - it is much more important to realize there is no unicorn. When one realizes there is no unicorn, all the unicorn questions dissolve. . . Similarly, these questions about "me" assume there is a "me". This is a distraction from realizing there is no me. Once this is realized, all the "me" questions dissolve.

All words, language, concepts, images, things are dualistic. If there is a "thing", then there must be something that "thing" is not. Any "thing" separated from One Everything is dualistic. If there is a "thing", there is a "not thing". If we say there is a thing called a chicken, then there must be non-chickens for contrast. If we say there is a thing called blue, there must be non-blue for contrast. If we say there is nonduality, there is duality for contrast. Yet all words, language, concepts, images, things are also nondualistic. All things are One Everything. It all IS. There is no thing that is not Everything. Everything is every thing. So all words, language, concepts, images are Everything, just like a bird chirp, sunset, knee pain, confusion, selfish thoughts, tuna sandwiches, ESP, lucid dreaming, NDEs, psychedelic experiences, astral projection, budhhism, hinduism, perception, theory are also Everything. All communication is dual in the sense that what is communicated is not what is non-communicated. And all communication is also nondual in the sense that all communication is Everything. We don't step outside of Everything, point and say "That stuff over there is Everything". Creating constructs is one form of communication. This generally involves the intellect. Yet there are other ways of communication. Most human communication is nonverbal - yet we are not aware of it. It is mostly subconscious communication. Most communication is nonverbal: tone of voice, facial expressions, body language etc. As well, there are other modes of communication via energetics, empathy, intuition, a smile. . . I've done eye gazing with sessions in which we gaze in each others eyes for 5-10min. and let all thoughts dissolve. It is amazing what can be communicated and learned about another person. Yet it's not something that is figured out. After the session, you can't really say "Wow, let's make sense of what happened". I suppose you could, yet this would be a recontextualization. Yes, much can be realized through direct experience. Thinking and conceptualizing is a small part of what is available. Imagine going 20min. without a single thought. Will there still be happenings? Of course. There are happenings of Now. And a whole new world opens up. It's amazing what can be learned and understood without a single thought. I generally don't like using the term "enlightenment". It can be helpful as motivation for spiritual practice, personal development and communication. Yet there is a tendency for people to create an "enlightenment story". The self gets immersed in this enlightenment story, creates an imaginary thing called "enlightenment" and starts viewing things/people as being enlightened or unenlightened. I find this to be a distraction, yet others like it. Yes. All theory, concepts, constructs etc are eventually circular and deconstruct to Nothing = Everything. Yet constructs have practical value to the person/human. Yet this realization is liberating because it dissolves attachment/identification to constructs. Like a sandcastle. Once one realizes the sandcastle they are building will eventually be deconstructed to the beach, this can allow letting go of attachment/identification to the sandcastle. This can be scary, it can be liberating. This is what makes human connection so special. Imagine a "knowing" that can't be explained through words and concepts. We can try, yet it is difficult. Yet when there is a shared knowing of the ineffible, it's really meaningful. And it's not just sharing theoretical models (although that can be fun too). . . Yesterday, a student was trying to communicate her experiences with anxiety and panic disorder. She quickly stopped, sighed and said "It's really hard to explain, no one understands". I told her I also had experience with anxiety/panic and said "for me, it's kinda like XYZ". Her eyes opened wide and she replied "Yea, that's sorta like it. It's also kinda like ABC". Then my eyes got wide opened as I said "Yea, that's another good way to say it". The energetics between us totally changed. We weren't trying to intellectually build a construct of what anxiety/panic is. Rather, we both had direct experience with anxiety/panic and were trying our best to communicate it through words. Yet most of it wasn't through words. It was also the way we looked at each other and the energetics between us. We fumbled around with words trying to point to it, yet the understanding had nothing to do with the construct. The understanding wasn't a thought construct of what anxiety/panic it - the understanding was the knowing of the direct experience. And there was a "knowing" present. We each knew that each other knew. At the end, I don't her "You are the first person I've shared this with that *gets it*. She smiled and replied "Me too". . . This is a different mode of beingness and it is really special in terms of human connection.

@arlin You are asking great questions. . . A concept is dual in the sense that one concept is not another concept. A concept is nondual in the sense that every thing is inter-connected into Everything. Truth contains no opposites and all opposites. The Truth is zero, one, two, three, four. . . into infinity. Nothing = Everything. Tell me one thing that isn't Everything. . . In addition to the Awareness vs No Awareness duality, there are various other dualities in your statement: conceptual vs non-conceptual, understanding vs non-understanding, my vs. not-my, creation vs non-creation. Every word/idea is dualistic because it has an opposite. And there are an infinite number of inter-connections within the duality. For example, what is Awareness vs. No Awareness? What is awareness? Is there 100% Awareness? Can there be different degrees of Awareness? Can someone be partially aware? Are there different forms of awareness? . . . There is nothing wrong with such dualities and questions. Yet they will eventually collapse into Nothing and Everything. Just like all sandcastles collapse back into the beach. Within the construct you are creating, yes it does take place in awareness. That is a nice insight. From one perspective, yes - it has been gotten. From another perspective, there is no "it" to get, since there is no "not it" to contrast "it" with. The construct of nonduality can be explained and understood. Yet Everything is not understood. For understanding, we need to create some "thing" to be understood. For example, no one understands what glafdin is. To understand this, the mind would need to create a construct of what "glafdin" is. If there is no construct of glafdin, there is nothing to be understood. The intellect and conceptualization is limited. The intellect/conceptualization is within something. If there is intellectual/conceptual understanding, there must be non-intellectual/non-conceptualization understanding. Here, direct experience is King. So all the words appearing here are partial "pointers". For example: the collapse of the duality of dual vs. nondual raises another duality: the duality of the collapse of duality between dual and nondual vs. the non-collapse of duality between dual and nondual. . . . The collapse of this duality introduces another duality: The duality of the collapse of the duality between the duality of dual vs. nondual vs. the non-collapse of the duality between the duality of dual. The collapse of this duality introduces another duality. . . This continues on infinitely into Nothing = Everything. This highlights the limits of intellect/concepts.

The nonduality is that there is One coin that contains Everything about the coin. Any description of the coin is the coin. We can create all sorts of dualities: For example, one side of the coin is silver, the other side is copper. Yet the silver and copper are the One coin. As you suggested, there is a trap of opposites. Imagine a person is conditioned for thirty years to see the coin as either Heads or Tails. They debate throughout there life about Head-ness or Tail-ness. They identify as a "Heads-seer" and want to marry another "Heads-seer". They are raised to believe that anyone who sees the Tails-side as being immoral. They want to raise their children to be good, moral "Head-seers". . . Now imagine after thirty years of opposition conditioning and identifying as a "Heads-seer" a person get sick and tired of all the inner turmoil and inter-personal conflict. They might do some spiritual work and realize "Omigosh, it's all One coin. I am creating Heads and Tails. There is no Heads and Tails!!". . . This awakening of nonduality is a major step forward, yet the mind will create a whole new duality. The mind will think "There is the One Coin vs. Heads/Tails". This is creating a new duality of nonduality vs. duality. The person may now think "I am a *One-Coin-Seer*, not Heads-Tails-Seer. There is no Heads-Tails. The Heads-Tail seers are delusional". . . The next stage is the collapse of the dual construct of nonduality vs. duality. . . There is realization that there is the One Coin and Heads-Tails. . . Most emphasis is placed on awakening to the nonduality of One Coin because the vast majority of humans are conditioned to see Heads vs. Tails. The nondual awareness and embodiment of One Coin is a major development. If 99% of the people haven't become aware of the nondual stage, that is where most of the effort should go. . . Few humans have nondual awareness/embodiment, even fewer have reached the collapse of nondual vs. dual. . . And there is another stage after this. . . Yet there is a problem trying to communicate two stages in advance. . . For example, imagine we are with a person that sees Heads vs. Tails and is unaware it is the same coin. For this person we need to point out that Heads and Tails are One Coin. We can't jump two stages ahead and point out that One Coin vs. Heads/Tails is also a duality because the person hasn't yet become aware of One Coin.

I’ve found that it is. Many minds included within Infinite Consciousness. That unites duality and Nonduality but the boundaries of each mind is relative. Like identifying a drop of water in the ocean. No hard boundaries

This is duality. Your ego is you. It needs to be understood, integrated and aligned with nonduality. You can't have one without the other. If you ignore your ego, you're missing a part of the puzzle. The "ego" loves being right and hates being wrong. Once you're open minded and accept that it's ok to be wrong because nobody's born knowing everything, we all learn through our mistakes then the whole new world opens up to you.

I agree that rationality can be harmonized with Nonduality and spirituality. To cut off rationality as an “invalid” path to understanding Nonduality is, ironically, being dualistic. It’s creating a distinction between rational paths and spiritual paths. If reality is truly Nondualistic, then rationality can lead to the same insights as spirituality. Nice analysis!

I don’t think the issue is not being able to understand it. If a normie visited a website for calculus professors, they won’t understand any of the calculus. There is no problem. . . The problem occurs when there is a misunderstanding. If a normie visits a calculus website and interprets the math to mean that an alien is stalking him, then that would be a problem. A couple examples of misunderstandings on the forum that cause people problems: You create all of reality is misunderstood as solipsism. . . . There is no objective meaning is misunderstood as nihilism. I would say that an adult would have much higher chance of misunderstanding problems than a child, because the adult as more filters through which misunderstanding would occur. For example, if we teach a child about nonduality and that we are all interconnected and One, it would not be traumatic to the child. Yet if we teach this to an adult, it can trigger a traumatic existential crisis since the adult has been highly conditioned into a self construct. They will be very threatened by nonduality because they want to protect their sense of self. I would go one step further and say it’s actually beneficial to teach children about nonduality before they become fully conditioned into duality, separation and contraction into a personal self. This conditioning creates the suffering and trauma. As well, the de-conditioning can cause discomfort. Yet through it comes liberation and love. If children learn about nonduality before dualistic conditioning, it would be beneficial. This will be part of education in the future. As the average conscious level of society increases, parents that are self-actualized will naturally teach their children about constructs of self and nonduality. This will lead to healthier people and healthier societies.

Beautiful conceptualization, Lukas. . . Notice how you have created a duality. A duality so intense that you have two hands!! You have constructed systems vs. creativity. The integration is simple, yet not easy. . . All dualities involve opposition. Here, systems and creativity are opposed. The mind is conditioned to see in opposites and will resist integration, because integration seems to lose the opposition to which the mind is attached. One key for integration is that loss of duality does not invalidate the duality. Saying systems is the same as creativity does not mean that systems isn't different than creativity. In this case, your mind is conditioned to see systems as different than creativity. Your mind has invested a lot of time and effort learning about systems and creativity and building constructs of how systems and creativity is different. The mind may resist seeing systems and creativity as the same. The trick to being a master integrator is being able to deconstruct to Nothing and then begin construction. From a purely deconstructed state of Nothing, Systems is Creativity and Systems is not Creativity. Both are true. When one can see this, there are an infinite number of inter-connections between Systems and Creativity. . . Yet to get to full deconstruction, one needs to let go of attachment to objective reality. If you see Systems as being objectively different than Creativity, you are in paradigm lock. I spent 20+ years working as a scientist. One of my major dualisms was between science and art. I saw them as separate and wanted to integrate them. However, I was locked into a construct of what science is and that art was outside of science. I thought that if I integrate science and art, I would need to re-define science is and I wasn't willing to do that. This was my biggest block. What I learned was that it isn't about redefining science and art. It's about transcending science and art. From a transcendent perspective, my old view that science is different than art is still true AND a new view that science is art emerged. Both are true. With this realization an infinite number of interconnections appear. Everywhere. . . . Yet this didn't happen in one jump. It was a process. If I could give my previous self one piece of advice it would be that Science is the same as Art does not mean I have to reject that Science is totally different than Art. You said that Systems is on one hand and Creativity is on the other hand. It is true that your two hands are different, yet it is also true that your two hands are the same YOU. Your two hands are different, the same and have an infinite number of connections. (Leo did a great video on this called "Sameness vs. Difference"). To start the process, I tried to have a blank slate and see the art in science and the science in art. Any inter-connections. I started hanging out with artists and observed them from a scientists perspective. I began seeing the science in their artwork. As I performed science in the lab I started seeing the art. I read the book "How to think like Leonardo DaVinci" and I started to realize DaVinci was both an artist and scientist. I spent a lot of time in nature and started seeing the inter-connections between science and art. At times I did moderate doses of psychedelics which dissolved the duality and allowed space for inter-connections. . . Eventually, the duality between science and art totally collapsed: science IS art . Yet this did not invalidate the duality that science is not art. This opened up infinite inter-connections that integrates the duality with the nonduality. At first, it took effort to come up with ideas to integrate science and art. Now integrative ideas happen effortlessly. . . Einstein is Mozart The other thing I learned is that it is more than intellectual. My mind was heavily tilted toward intellect, logic, science, evidence, analysis and concepts. Part of the integration process was to learn new modes of being: Intuition, Empathy, Feeling, Knowing, Being and Creativity entered the picture and became just as important as intellect. For example, I would intellectualize about what creativity is and created concepts about of creativity. Yet then I became creativity - I knew creativity through Intuition and Beingneess in nonverbal, non-intellectual ways.

Hmm... The presenter in the recent videos made a distinction between pain and suffering. I call that a nonduality fallacy. In my opinion pain IS suffering. The mistake all those spiritual teachers make is to contextualize their understanding within the context of today's world. Even the ACIM teachers I have found so far, maybe with the exception of Marianne Williamson, I don't know yet, talk about pain as inevitable. Here is what A Course in Miracles ACTUALLY says about pain: "1. Pain is a wrong perspective. When it is experienced in any form, it is a proof of self-deception." - https://acim.org/workbook/lesson-190/ What is needed is to recontextualize our understanding within a future framework. Tricky, yes, but even Eckhart Tolle talked about the possibility of a totally different reality. I think this is extremely important, nay necessary, for true transcendence of the ego, both of the personal ego and what I call the global ego.

Her teaching style may seem too entertaining to be deep but she has some of the clearest teachings out there. She uses unique language and has a great framework to better understand nonduality and how to go deeper with it, and especially understanding using love and desire as a force that you go with to dissolve self, not against. I'm going to add any videos I come across that particularly strike me here, and would appreciate if others do the same. All of it is amazing though.

So why make this thread if you're all alone in the universe? Who are you addressing? I am not meaning this in any condescending or obtuse tone, I'm just trying to form my own theoretical foundation by looking at other people's experiences of nonduality.

@Ferdi Le Yes! , thank you. That is pretty much how i'm planning to approach it. I feel like they would be overwhelmed if i talked to them too much about selfimprovement/nonduality.

@Moses Sometimes it means to be willing to get a negative reaction. Unconditional love/acceptance is basically nonduality. Most aren't there. An many aren't even willing to hold space for discussing topics that make them feel uncomfortable. If you're close with them they might hold space for uncomfortable topics but if not then I would read into conflict resolution/anger management skills so you could bring the conversation to peace. Otherwise I personally don't see it happening but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to make it happen.

Nonduality means psychosis, spirits/demons, repression, trauma, depression, malaise, etc is all the very same illusion.

I recommend reading Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality by Dr. David R. Hawkins. He talks about the personal will vs. the Spiritual Will. The subjective state of personal will is an egoic construct in the mind, whereas with enlightenment you realize the omnipresent Self is what actually acts through you.