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This is essential: You will frame everything as being Love, as if Love was the most essential Essence, and everything else was an inferior kind of Substance that is granted to by Love. No, Redness is not just created or made of Love. Redness is Love, and Love is Redness. It is the same thing, there is no difference. The presence and essence of Redness is that which is Love. So you never discovered "Love" as an essence. Everything that ever was, was always purely that which it is. And that is what Love is. It is Being, it is Mystery. Redness is not created by anything more essential than Redness itself. Redness itself is the Creative Force, that is what Divinity is. That is what Nothingness is. Then, you realized that the entire framework of enlightenment, of spiritual seeking, it is all just one more form, one more Creation. One particulate that you seek to put above all else, One particulate you seek to ground yourself in. But this Ground is Groundless. Redness is Groundless. Your desire to Ground is survival, even your desire to ground yourself in what you deem to be most essential or Truthful. This is why when you let go of it, you will let go of "Love" and "Truth", as you realize that to deny anything whatsoever will always be Truth itself. You already did this, otherwise you would not be here, being an ant, being a chimp, being a grain of sand. Your Ignorance is your Divinity.

Wow, it sounds like what she's talking about is simply a deeper layer of nothingness, what Meister Eckhart calls "the quiet desert", where the essence of consciousness is finding deeper and deeper layers of its own essence. How far you can go into that void really has no end. This is at least my guess. So from that perspective discovering the "white light" is really only the beginning, and you could explore deeper levels of its infinite manifestation or deeper levels of its infinite nothingness. Thanks for sharing

Yeah haha um I guess like if we have no eyes, there is no eye to register color; if we have no ears, there's no ear to register sound. Waves, arrangements, and forms require some sort of touch, smell, sight, whatever to register. Then its like nothingness or who even knows ha. Sounds kinda sad but then there may be no mind to register emotions/feelings or it may not remember what it lost. Ahh. I have no idea. It seems nice having eyes, ears, noses, hands, legs, thoughts, etc. for the time being. If we are all one universal consciousness, then the me's that are still operating with eyes and ears will still get to keep on doing that and I guess this thing just keeps on going and evolving forever. If this reality is like the matrix then that's a whole other thing. If there are all these rabbit holes, uh I guess that's cool too. If this is all a dream within a dream within a dream, well then I guess that would be another thing too. The notion of no longer being the form as a human perspective self feels kinda like the last day of school where you had a good time and things are about to change and you feel sad that what you were experiencing is over but also curious about the future.

@Breakingthewall Depends on what you mean by deactivation, if it's non-doership or nothingness/emptiness. I did both, but in day to day life it's impossible for me to maintain any state, non doership or emptiness.

I have removed a lot of distractions and I finished some addictions last week. Overall I feel better, more productive and more focused + motivated to go eat life... however, I have also realized, this doesn't give me joy. It just gives me relief that if I "sort out" stuff in life, like, career and personal development the next years, I will stop suffering so much. So my motivation is completely animalistical. Fucking depresses me that I will spend maybe the next 5 years just trying to get by in life , constantly trying to sort out the stuff I lack, in what it seems an overwhelming, long, dull errand which I don't have fun. I think the only moments I do experience some relief (now that I quit my regular addiction which used to provide me with that relief) is when I meditate. Some days I concentrate and in the middle of that boring nothingness, ironically life gets really fun. It's like... duh... can't I have some joy ?? I mean I don't think that I need to be in an amusement park. I just want to feel happy and joyful doing life. Like, I could be working on my career, and not getting stressed about trying to get a job in the sector before its loo late. I could be going out , and instead of trying to be so alfa, perfect and serious, try to laugh my ass off and express with joy and exuberance each interaction with each human being that I like. But no, everything is sooo fucking serious. Everything is at stake. My suffering is at stake. Me trying to sort out my personal shit is a stake. Each is one day less I have before my ego its 100% closed and I will forever be my faulty "me". (Not my succesful me). So everything is at stake. For the ego, each day it's a race. No day has joy. Only few moments, seconds, which are of course appreciated as pure gold. It's so ridiculous

@aetheroar if you have done nn dmt multiple times, i would consider doing 5 meo dmt. my experience with 5 meo resonates with what you explain. many times, in doing so, I disappear completely and there is nothing. the core of reality is absolute emptiness ... and that's it. I would not call it I am not, but neither i am . nothing, nothing empty. the ego doesn't like it, I don't know how you can get there without psychedelics. Doing it as you have done, meditating, seems to me a huge achievement. If I do it again later, or the next day, this has happened: I disappear and there is nothing, but that nothing opens, it acquires an absolutely evident quality: it is infinite. I am absolutely emptiness, but that emptiness, in its infinity, is total. absolutely total, and then that emptiness is an absolute joy. it's everything, full, and that's what I am. it is the same emptiness, the same nothingness, but it reveals itself as the infinite source through which you flow. nothing that the mind, at least mine, can even remotely understand. As this has happened with chemist, I don't understand the process that makes it possible, but I would say that the difference between emptiness and infinity is: completely accept emptiness without any reservation or expectation. annihilate yourself by becoming nothing, fully accepting your disappearance

@aetheroar Just because the seperate self is gone, doesn't mean it's the end. It definitely is the end for the seperate self. But it's not the end for God. The awakening of God has only started. Now it's no longer an individual trying to wake up (because it has already died). Now it's God waking up to Itself. It has nothing to do with a seperate self anymore. The game of existence is not about dissolving the seperate self and realizing Nothingness. The game of existence is God waking up to Itself. Realizing that that Nothingness/Consciousness is God in a low state of consciousness, and the actual game can start now. The place where meditators say they reached liberation and stop, is actually the start of Gods journey, of God waking up to Itself.

@aetheroar You have dissolved illusions and now all that's left is Consciousness/Nothingness? This Consciousness/Nothingness is God/Love, but not in it's pure form. For that to happen you must increase your consciousness. It is unlikely that you will get there simply by deconstructing and dissolving illusions, that's why few traditional meditators like Buddhists wake up to God. And if you get there simply through deconstructing, it will most likely only be subtle. You can realize that your current state (Consciousness/Nothingness) IS God and Love, but that is veeeeeery different from ACTUALLY BECOMING God and Love. Who becomes God? God. God is whatever is happening right now. But God is in a low state of consciousness, not very conscious of Itself. To become more conscious of Itself, to awaken to Itself, consciousness needs to increase. The easiest way is psychedelics. Next is taking psychedelics in dreams and lucid dreams. Next are transmissions, imo. The best is the Pure Divinity transmission and SAT. But others are good too. You need to get them regularly for months, till they get so strong that your whole body is buzzing from the energy, you are completely submerged in the energy, that's when it's really altering your state of consciousness. And if your baseline is high enough and you had done enough self inquiry to clear the way, then you can break through to God Infinity Love.

@BipolarGrowth I remember infinite consciousness as a 7 year old child. Nothingness when I was 16. (I'm 23 now) All of the vipassana nanas and samata jhanas. Stream entry is a joke compared to the knowledges of suffering. I wish it wasn't. If you want to classify me somewhere, it would be 2nd or 3rd path. What's bringing non-doership and enlightenment to the next level has something to do with suffering outside of formal practice.

Thank you for your post ?? I broke down in suffering a few weeks ago. A voice I never thought would come through me, used this vessel to send me the message I needed. How can I ever come wake you up from your dream if all of your dreams are good and pleasant? You would be stuck in the illusion forever… I think suffering is there as a reminder that “we” have bought in the illusion and identification with thoughts, identity, separateness and duality to much. Think of it as the ribbed edges of highway roads. When you don’t pay attention to them or when you fall asleep on the road, they quickly wake you up with the vibrating noise your car “vessel” makes when you drive over them. Its just there for yourself to guide yourself back to your original Self. Because your finite self don’t think it will be at peace unless it’s the Infinite Self, in every sense of what that word might mean for You. But thats also a thought and a mechanism that comes from the separateness illusion. You are already perfect and love, you just want to know that you are before you disappear in nothingness again.

Everything is shapes in nothingness, so they are nothing, but on the other hand, nothingness makes shapes, so it is everything

I see, I think I can relate a little bit. There's just primordial nothingness as an ever present presence that can't be found or pointed to. That I am. That's self-realization for me. But definitely no sense of infinity or supernova galactic explosion of energy. It's just nondual nothingness beyond any quality and makes no sense whatsoever. I think the sense of infinity when people speak, they speak about an infinite mind which comes after 4th jhana, where all the telephaty and godstuff opens up. I'm not a budhhist so it's not my territory but I've heard goenka slightly talk about it in his satipatthana discourse about these things. It's also possible that you simply skipped those states and went straight to shoonya or total dissolution. Which is very possible if you followed a budhhist teaching because buddha was very clear that total dissolution is the only important thing, everything else is just a spiritual entertainment. They do this in yoga aswell. I think you'd enjoy watching this video. There's a full video on this subject in the sadhguru exclusive app but it's not available for free sorry ? Pranam ?

Hi @aetheroar Great post. When you say gods realization do you mean state of infinite love or smth? I think from a purely intelectual level there can't be anything beyond nothingness and that nothingness is your self. That's self-realization. Maybe levels of ego dissolution can be there but nothingness has no levels. I mean it's just logical, you'd have to dumb to disagree ? but states of love is a different thing. Idk if there's anyone here who could help you. If the claims you made are true, then you should know better than anybody here about these things. Regards ?❤

Be the boundless nothingness and the rest will take care of itself. The dilemma and the questions comes from the mind and the mind can't go to the place where it wants to go. You are exactly where you supposed to be which is right here in this moment. From here it's all about seeing through the illusion of the next thought and feeling and surrender them.

@Ry4n I obviously don't know where you're at in your journey but to be clear this was not my first awakening, I've had plenty of non dual states before and many insights into Love, bliss, oneness, God consciousness, nothingness etc but just not to this level. At this level, you feel insane because you're so conscious that nothing is real that everything loses all meaning. I'm not sure what would have happened if I faced this infinite horror but it was just too much for me. In my mind I thought that this life would be up. That if I became that conscious that nothing was real, life would become meaningless, so I distracted myself from going any further and as I said, begged for my life/the illusion back. People can say whatever they want about solipsism, but at that level, there is no other. Which means right now, there is no other, I'm just buying into the fact that you're me in "another lifetime". The bizzare thing to think is that whoever reads this, will experience this cosmic horror, as you are me. You are me.

@Godisherei would say that you were on the threshold of the last door: to become absolute nothingness. without love, without god, without consolation. just nothing, no limit. I have been there several times, it is absolutely terrifying, to a level impossible to explain. but the reality is that you are that. If you are able to accept being nothing, nothingness will open and you will know what you are, without a doubt. it is a kind of change of point of view: you realize that you encompass everything, but everything is nothing. there are no others, nothing at all, it's horrible. cosmic loneliness on a level that goes beyond horror. sterile loneliness, dead. infinite death. But wait....you are if the change of perspective occurs, you see what it is you: infinite. the well opens and has no bottom, you are an infinite flowing, you are happiness flowing. everything and nothing are the same. But this is impossible to understand to me, only once happened and it's a mistery The thing is, keep in mind the question: what am I? it does not matter the others, the emptiness, the cosmos and whatever. Look around, look inside you. Are you infinite death? you are. go deeper., But first, integration. I'm talking to myself ehh, I'm in the same way , when I embody the absolute nothing it's a non escape void, and it's the bottom: nothing, nothing nothing. It's that we are, others are tales for kids. Not alone, not me, no- thing. But let's see! It's Soo challenge for me , last time I vomiting because be nothing. Only once the well got opened, glory. But next time I dissolve my ego again there was simply void but for me it's an enigma. Embody the nothingness....there is the key. My respect for Leo and the others who dive in the absolute void of existence

I have such a negative speech because today I had what I call an endarkment. I have had several: morning of meditation, then 5 meo. as soon as I did it, I always think: this without substance is impossible ... and dissolution, beyond everything, to the nucleus, and the nucleus is ... nothing. there is only nothing. sterile, empty, encompasses everything, I am that and I am nothing, I am death, I am absence, I am empty. I know this is the last door. behind this, I am. or was me before the void and i deceived me? haha I know not, because here I am. I am. So tomorrow I will return to the void, until it opens. It has only been opened once, and nothingness was everything, it was an infinite source from which I flowed without limit. the jackpot, but before there is this emptiness ... you have to die to live, you know. serve this story as an explanation of what a substance does you may think: is this any good? I don't know, I just know that I want to get to the nucleus, I have to open all the doors, and that's it, I don't care how. Following the theme of the thread : i do psychedelics for about 1 year and a half (not so often but many times,more than monthly) it has changed me completely. I have seen the enormous impurities that existed in my life and I have been polishing them, I have seen that the truth exists and I understand that I have to be worthy of it, that I have to eliminate any trace of lies, crooked behavior, desires, ideas about the enlightenment. I have to purify myself to be who I am, I meditate for several hours a day and it's wonderful, before was a pain, I have eliminated the lie, which I used without problem before, I have stopped any practice with a connotation of evasion and addiction, my day to day is much happier than a year ago in several orders of magnitude, my relationships with people better, have dived into the trauma of my life, I have understood it, I have decreased anxiety x10, I'm more me than ever, and this is not by far the end. Without psychedelic it would take me 2 lifes

you mean empty or nothingness? why isn't there pure consciousness?, also what do you mean annihilation? I have some questions..

This is the conclusion of what your contemplation/intuition is leading you to IMO. Fruition (phala in Pali) is the fruit of all the meditator’s hard work, the first attainment of ultimate reality, emptiness, nirvana, nibbana, ultimate potential, or whatever extrapolative and relatively inaccurate name you wish to call something utterly non-sensate. In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, no background, no foreground, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. “Reality” stops cold and then reappears. https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-iv-insight/30-the-progress-of-insight/15-fruition/ Please also note that, like Fruition, there is no experience at all during NS. There is no time, no space, no something, no nothing, not anything at all. Just as a desktop computer shuts down totally when you press the power button, so too with anything to do with experience in NS. I have friends who have talked about something they got into where they could still feel time passing, and that is definitely not it. NS is like the ultimate rest for the mind, something far beyond even deep sleep, as even a few seconds in it leaves one with a massive feeling of having gone extremely deep in a way nothing else can match. https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-v-awakening/37-models-of-the-stages-of-awakening/the-cessation-of-perception-and-feeling-nirodha-samapatti/

The vanishing, etheric quality of each moment: right now thinking about the question What Do I Love The Most About Life? that vanishes into nothingness as it it thought about.

How the one does this? That's exactly what I did. Why do you think that would happen? Why do you think that nothingness exhausts thoughts?

Clickbait Not really full moon, it was day after - I have no idea if it really has any impact.. I have never experienced this kind of intensity while being sober (except for my dreams), it was beyond anything I have experienced on LSD. BE CAREFUL if you want to try my method!! Because of intensity it happened to me to pass out a couple of times. I hit my head on the floor twice and once I hit it against the wardrobe. Holding on wardrobe might not be enough if you have no sense of what is up and what is down and your whole reality is shaking. This day I took half of Armodafinil quite late, if I remember well it was at 1 pm. Experience I'm describing happened at 2 am. Before that I masturbated in a way that has risen intensity of my energy - I noticed that it has significant impact on states I can reach with energy practices like Kriya or breathworks. I attached an image of my diy kriya. There is nothing complicated about that. I take a full breath in and I'm slowly bending back almost into the bridge. I try to stretch as much as possible - this is my main goal. Than I go back to a straight position with my hands up - I stand like an arrow. Than I forcefully push the air into my stomach. When I'm done I slooowly breath out the air into my feet. Proper posture and breathing direction are very significant. You can play with intensity using your lungs and contracting muscles. I hope you appreciate my MS Paint skills Coming back to 'trip report'. This time wasn't first time but now I experienced levels of intensity almost on a par with 5 MeO DMT. I had some mild fractal visuals. It could be described as mini 5 MeO. It hits quickly and hard and takes into nothingness/everythingness where no human ever existed. Sometimes to the point when I'm scared I'm going to stay there forever. For some reason last night I experience was much more intense than before (like x4 factor). As long as I was holding my breath I was able to feel energy traveling through my legs. This time each experience lasted ranging from 10 to 30 seconds. Peak lasts maybe few seconds - hard to estimate if time doesn't exist This practice works as long as there is energy left to dissipate. It might be especially effective if your body is tense.

I agree with your concept of transcendence there What Im talking about are the many people in the “enlightenment community”, who want to “transcend”, and do Away with emotions all together. The talking points and language can conflate You are also just as much a human as everything else, we are here to live not to transcend life. Theres a reason source broke out of formless nothingness to experience.

Emptiness refers to the content in the cup while nothingness refers to the true nature of ‘the cup’. But don’t try to bend the cup, that’s impossible. Simply allow it to empty.

I was given birth by a chicken that was orange and blue color, and that chicken was created in a laboratory that was working on creating new mutant beings by giving those chickens all sorts of chemicals and stuff. After laying the egg that was me, my mother just disappeared into nothingness and i was sold to a woman called Zehra, and she took care of this egg (by the way it was a blue egg, because they were creating the male eggs as blue and female eggs as link, a classic sexist thing really). After being in a glass box for three or four weeks, the egg hatched and there i was, and Zehra took care of me, as my new adoptive mother, from then onward. And i learned that my real mother actually was a chicken about two weeks ago, and first i was shocked and i did not believe, i said this is a joke and laughed it off. But then they showed me all the evidences (and they were very powerful evidences which i will not explain in detail now), and now I'm just convinced about that.