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I think this is where relativity of points of view come in and how language works. If you tell the average joe shmoe on the street that awakening is realizing that you are God and everything is infinite imagination, how much does that do to help him really and communicate what awakening is? He has no idea what the hell those words mean. At best he will attach some meaning of what he's associated 'God' and 'imagination' with in the past and make a mental model out of that. Language is only useful to the extent we can communicate by emitting certain sounds to create meaning in the mind of another person. Thus, awakened people may speak in these weird anecdotes because they appreciate how reality is being seen from many different points of view. And if you think about it reality only exists as an infinite number of different points of view. Thus hard 'facts' through language are not absolute, but only absolute from a certain point of view. At the same time the absolute is absolute so this is where things get wack.

Free will, as a concept, is a trap. For unawakened people, the idea of free will makes them think they can "pursue enlightenment", when the truth is that enlightenment pursues them. For awakened people, the idea of free will is also a trap, because it ties them to the person. They are no more free to choose than unawakened people. The only freedom is Consciousness itself, manifesting through its creations. We can't take credit for anything. Whatever it is that makes us choose what we choose, it is because we were created to make that choice. How could it be otherwise?

Reminds me very much of @Joseph Maynor. I tried with him for years and it only got worse because he was so pig-headed. I would rather focus my energy on people who will benefit from the advice. I used to believe that everyone should be awakened and saved, but this is not the case. Most are not ready.

lmao, he just wants to intellectualize Awakening / Non-Duality without any sort of experiential understanding. The fact you think truly awakened beings couldn't be an Engineer is funny, the paradox is, they'd likely be an incredible engineer if they wanted to & actually create things to benefit the System as a whole. Definitely shows several dangers of this work- Wanting to intellectualize everything in life & believing the mind is the master Not being able to conflate absolute & relative truths Going into any endeavor with your 'Cup already full', it means you aren't ready to learn. This isn't just true of spirituality. It's like going to a basketball coach, him telling you how to improve your game & then you saying nah fuck that, gonna carry on how I was as I must be right. Tbf, this Forum isn't ideal for new seekers, as I feel you need a base understanding to gain anything from most discussions. @Leo Gura @Nahm maybe we could create a 'New To Non-Duality / Spirituality Thread' which recommends some of the best books, videos, teachings etc that help new people understand the path? I know you have your booklist & videos, but sometimes so much choice can be overwhelming, perhaps finding the 3 best Beginner books & videos for examples with help people at the start, and will prevent very entry level questions & situations like this. Almost like if you were going to teach someone to Code, you'd expect them to know how to turn on the computer & the basics of technology, you wouldn't want to have to teach them the very, very basicS?

@The0Self See, I really don't know how far along I am with any psychs because of the given nature of infinity and implicit understanding. LSD has awakened me to a LOT of things. But, I haven't gone deep enough. I do 1p-LSD and I do not get any visuals. I will awaken. Last time I was on DMT God gave me the thumbs up. Honestly DMT is a great time ahahah. Well, I gave it to myself.

Yeah, but that's the problem of telling this to people who've not gotten it. That may be the truth in the direct experience of the one who has awakened, but saying it to a none awakened person is dismissing the process which led you to your awakening in the first place.

Christianity states that Jesus is the Son of God. Islam states there is only one God, and there is no holy trinity; Jesus can only be a prophet. The holy trinity represents three different aspects of Oneness and it doesn't contradict Islam. The father (Infinite Intelligence) The son (Consciousness Incarnate) The Holy Spirit (The field of Oneness) You are infinite intelligence incarnating itself into human form. Everything is made by you as infinite intelligence, including the incarnate self, which can experience spirit (Oneness) through awakening. Jesus created a narrative of being the son of God, as a way to explain awakening, but it was lost in translation. Prior to rationality, a lot of Oneness was misunderstood. People assumed they could have superpowers if they were God, or could perform miracles. They didn't take into account the limitations of incarnate form. Islam believes in Oneness, One God, Allah There is no contradiction here, as all dualities collapse, even the Holy Trinity. The confusion with Allah is, similar to Christians, they never become Jesus or Allah. Both biblical texts are showing you two different ways of being God/Allah or Jesus/Mohamed Mohammed and Jesus is a duality. - They're both awakened individuals. God and Allah is a duality. - They both refer to infinite intelligence. What we are seeing is these teachings becoming more nuanced, to clear up confusion. Less personifications, less worshipping, more scientific methods to achieve awakening. The biggest setback is the corruption of these teachings. People who are not realised, confuse these teachings and use them to unknowingly prevent awakening. It likes a scientist who has so many theories, but never sees the actuality of the science. Their mind constructs a theoretical reality. It might be factual true, but it's experientially false. You mind can't live in books or stories, or whatever fantasy it conducts. It has to come back to the realest thing there is, conscious experience of the present moment. There is a mental cloud that prevents that; only a conscious individual can discern it. Progression of Spiritual Teaching Son of God -> Oneness of God -> Non-duality

It was not hidden for the content of claiming to be awakened or god. In my judgement it violated the forum policy for excessive self promotion. For those interested in his post, I’ll repost it without the self promotion.

Its fine, no worries. For them its an amazing insight(which given credit.... it is). Go beyond. So wanna chat about some deeper insights you may have gotten? perhaps you have realized other aspects of reality. What about this... You exist so much(as an individual) that everything you do matters. honestly explore the self side. the self that knows its playing a game. the self that knows it exists because you are an aspect of reality playing with itself. yeah, they have a limit. A true spiritual master says those lines less and less as they grow(they could if its their path, but a highly awakened person does not tend to do that) Its not that they become less true it is that they see more aspects to reality. For someone still understanding this one truth they will fall in and out it often when trying to keep their consciousness raised. Tbh, people who say that all the time are great as they are growing but they are not that high conscious

The main controversy with Mooji is the claim of lineage to Ramana Maharshi. The only 2 beings that Ramana formally declared as awakened were his mother just prior to her death, and Lakshmi the cow (yes, really). Papaji was a wonderful student of Ramana, though he gave rise rise to his own students (Gangaji, Mooji, etc.) leading modern Satsang sessions while claiming a lineage to Ramana that was never endorsed by Ramana himself. Having said that, I don't believe that Ramana himself would be in the least bit bothered. The only issue that appeared to upset Ramana was cruelty towards the animals. Even direct defamation against him did not trouble him in the slightest, nor was he interested in questions of which other teachers are fully realised; he told his followers to mind their own business! Some Advaita teachers also had a strong opposition to receiving money for their teachings, or feel that teachers should be celibate. If we take this to the extreme, Ramana is the only teacher who is 100% clean. Keep in mind that a lot of the prostrating and veneration stuff was happening even to Ramana, and is a part of the culture that Mooji controversially 'inherited'. In the end, Mooji's teachings are very pure and bring the essence of self-inquiry to a modern audience that might otherwise miss out. The small elements of cultic tendencies within the culture are only a minimal blemish. If you are given a pot full of gold, but then find a couple of pieces of coal inside, do you discard the entire thing?

@Breakingthewall I will do it my way? It just may happen one of you write something that happens alters my way, and that would be beautiful. I am 17 years old, can't get a drivers license yet. So I will (maybe) wait half a year more before leaving school, but then I would only have one year left to finish. In school I only do what I need to do then I meditate every chance I get, though I don't touch the seventh chakra, I can't surrender myself to "love" if I need to do things like sitting quiet doing schoolwork. I will ask the teachers to have a place for me to meditate without bringing attention to myself. If I finish school I could work with young children and make a lot of money in a year which would let me quit and live my highest potential for quite a while. I am not going to finish though, it's too long, too much limiting myself. By the chance of zero there is actually a classmate in my class that sais she has awakened or opened her third eye. She has little attendance, fools around during lessons and limits herself to a minimum while barely getting a passing grade. If I don't limit my seventh chakra or enlightened state I wouldn't be here so I can't really do that as of right now. I only sit in stillness all the time. When I get home I work on my van.

Very interesting stuff. It's amazing what comes to the innocent mind of a child. When I was something like 8 years old. I always suspected that everyone is just acting and they are tricking me to believe that this is real life. I also felt that I was always being watched. Having awakened a few times, now I know exactly why I felt that. This sounds like the movie "The Truman Show." But at that time I hadn't watched the movie, because English is my 3rd language which I learned when I was in high school.

I tend to think everybody has ambition - acctually something more basic than that, the ambition producing facility in you, just like we have emotions, body parts, toughts e.c.t. "Lack of intrinsic motivation" or i don't care is more like a clogged up pipe or a closed chakra, if it is directed it is bound to find it's expression and he shows intelligence to attempt to solve this problem by the same mechanism. He has enough ambition to find the problem for his lack of ambition - so therefore I mean he absolutely has amibiton. He is in the beginning of the journey where you are crossing multiple laps. It is after all exponential-like growth in self-dev. From 30 minutes of visualiation to intense years of action towards big projects. The actual problem of the clogged pipe - and this is just the case with most of us - it is clogged by our dietary choices, mindset, lack of exercise, media, instant pleasures e.c.t., so that muse never finds expression, but the mechanism is there and it's in fact working to some degree. You described it pretty well in your - getting in touch with your higher self video. That is literally a starter for directed desire, where ambition shows. I am very suprised that you are not saying the following things: Visioning is the cure for lack of ambition; Self-development is the cure for lack of ambition; Meditation and spirituality is the cure for lack of ambition; Taking yourself less seriously, detaching from outcome, mastery, hero's journey, more emotionally motivating concepts are the solution for this problem; Stopping dabbling, taking decisions e.c.t. are cures for lack of ambition; Sure we are dealing with a complex problem here, however, there are steps to infuse that instrinsic motivation which is synonymous with ambition; I guess you have forgotten about the value you keep providing. And people HAVE IT just like they have arms and legs, just like some people have never in their life experienced bliss, because they havent awakened these faculties. But it is there, even if its malfunctioning in a form of regret, dissatisfaction e.c.t., that is a projection of unused ambition units, which is what this post is about.

@Shunyata no I'm not. The best way I can describe it is that I'm awakened but not fully integrated. My mind is "jailbroken" but currently dysfunctional in many ways. This can happen when dive off the deep end in the psychedelic realm without prior spiritual knowledge or practices. That was my path, but quite a painful one. There truly are no shortcuts! That being said, the awakenings I got from psychedelics are permanent. My entire quality of experience/consciousness has changed, and any practices I've been trying to incorporate have been way more powerful. I have a weird relationship with time, and I may have the capability to sense the future (on one of my trips time literally broke and I separated in time from my friend). It's about 15 seconds, sometimes several minutes, where I have a direct intuition of something about to happen, like a phone alarm or a siren or numbers or whatever. I want to explore and develop this more, but currently it's not repeatable or testable. @Inliytened1 thank you!

You still think you need someone else, higher than you (awakened), telling you what to do. I highly doubt you can awaken with that kind of mindset, since you fundamentally believe you aren't enough. As if someone else can be a better guide than yourself.

First thing to understand is that this is a fools errand. Any method given is partial and may not work for you. It's way too tricky and each mind is a unique case. Awakening is almost always a slow process. However, there seem to be some general themes, just off the top of my head. Awakening can only happen through great suffering. Suffering is the catalyst for change. You must desire the truth and be willing to throw everything else into the fire. You must learn to let go of all attachments, and you must be deeply curious about the mechanice your own mind. Not everyone is meant to awaken because there are huge existential risks involved. You may not, and if that's the case, you have to be ok with that. There's nothing wrong with not awakening in your current incarnation. Enjoy it, have a family if that's what you want. From one perspective, everyone is already awakened. There are many degrees of awakening and awakening experiences. Not just a dozen, probably more like hundreds. The dial of consciousness goes way way farther than you could presently imagine. When most people talk about awakening, it's at a relatively low level. The higher ones aren't even recognized or known to be possible in most spiritual circles. I hope this helps. Many many techniques and methods can be found, and I would be wasting my time and yours by regurgitating them here. You must experiment and find what works for you, and no definitive list can ever, or should, be presented to be rotely memorized and unconsciously followed. That's the surest way to not awakening.

Ok in your case, can somebody who's awakened still be a seeker or is there no real need for seeking after waking up. So you're saying someone who's awakened can't really be a seeker because there's nothing to seek

When you are awakened you realize that you have never born and are Nothing. There will be no one left to seek anything, because your entire life is just a thought process.

rupert spira dynamics he's alright that jolly serene awakened man with his grey cardigan sweater

If someone had awakened and is now living boundlessly such as a Buddha. Without working for money but living for people and the world, would his survival be taken care of within little time? What if he didn't involve himself with people, but mostly observed and explored the world. What about survival then, would it somehow be taken care of?

I have some friends who were diagnosed bipolar. They often have grand visions about the world that are very similar to the ones I have had on psychedelics or when I am in an awakened state. I am not bipolar but are they just the same thing?

@IamMystic why aren't there more awakened people? Cuz mankind still has a long way to go.

I'll go through these one by one, but before I do, I feel it would be much easier to get a grasp of RASA & Ramaji's teachings by simply reading 1000, as your understanding of it is not at all what the book or the teachings are about, at all. And, if you don't want to read 1000, read No Mind, No Problem, it's a much more practical book, and goes over how to investigate your mind to identify & see through / eliminate the I-Thought (what Ramana called the separate Self) and also includes a cool little 'Natural Pure Awareness' meditation that I love. I'm no Reiki expert, but isn't Reiki energy healing, and used for various reasons, relatively speaking. RASA is specific to Non-Dual awakening, the nuts & bolts of it is opening of the Crown Chakra & Stabilization in 'Non-Duality.' Yes, of course, THIS is all that exists, but let's be real, walk around and 99.9% of people are not conscious of their being, as Francis' quote below summarizes so well everyone is in 'the absolute state' but most are unknowing of this, and RASA like many other tools, help one realize this & stabilize in their true nature. Here's the link to the RASA description- https://www.rasatransmissioninternational.com/what-is-rasa Again, reading 1000 will clear this up, but Ramaji is not literally saying a separate self exists, letalone that is at a certain LOC. The LOC model is a relative model. Talking about Rupert's metaphors he says that Enlightenment is like Chapter 2 of a 12 chapter book, the LOC model is simply guidance on these 'Chapters', just like the 10 Ox Herding pictures, in fact before going into the model, he goes over all of the different models / maps of awakening. This isn't a new thing, traditions have done this for centuries in one way or another, and the Zen one is most popular. So, no, it does not play into the materialist paradigm, as Ramaji states that The Absolute / The Self is ALL there is, the LOC model is simply referring to how conscious one is of that, as we both know, Ramana Maharshi & Adolf Hitler in Essence are one & the same, YET, one is far more conscious of their true nature, and as a result acts very differently. Yes, I think you are seeing the LOC model as a rating of a separate individuals LOC, when it is simply a 'marker' of how much one is conscious of their own being, just like the 10 Ox-Herding pictures, that's all it is. In fact, like any model, it needs to be let go of when one reaches that point, just like the teachings do. As I said, 'Students' is misleading yes, but we have to use words to communicate don't we? Students is perhaps an outdated term, maybe you can say your helping yourself awaken, or you're simply spiritual friends, but I'm not trying to be semantic, students is usually just the easiest way to word it, but the words aren't really important if one knows what you are pointing to. I personally think it's skeptical as you have a complete misunderstanding of the model, and of their teachings. It is simply a tool used to help beings awaken, just like you may recommend to someone you work with a certain inquiry question, or a meditation technique to help them realize what they truly are and always have been. I mean this quote direct from the RASA page, I don't see how in any way indicates anything such as a separate self- 'The issue of "other" gets fully resolved. You know directly and intimately even when you are talking to people face to face that they are your very own Self. They are your Self... my Self... the Self... the One Supreme Self.' Just to be clear it is nothing at all to do with separate selves, it is literally a model regarding the depths of awakening, and no such model could ever be perfect, but it is ultimately about helping people realize & awaken to their absolute nature & get a better understanding of Non-Duality. Regarding the teaching part, I would again say no. Awakened or not, people have personalities, you have a personality on a human level, and so do I, the Enneagram helps to understand what makes different people tick, what holds people back etc, so I don't understand what you mean by extra layers. If anything, it helps you understand what will be most effective for that being on their own journey, so will cut out a lot of the unnecessary fluff in the long run. And, like any vocation, teaching is a skill, just because one is awakened, does not mean one is able or even ready to teach. Francis also talked about this in this article- https://ericplatt.com/on-being-a-teacher/ , he also talks about it on his BATGAP interview near the end if I remember rightly, and Rupert also talks about how teaching is a skill. Oh, and the reason I don't think what you're saying is common sense, is because you don't really understand Ramaji & Ananda's teachings, and see them as part of materialist paradigm and propagating the existence of an illusory separate self, which couldn't be further from the truth at all, and I think any kind of light reading of either's books will show you that, so I really hope you just read a few pages of Ramaji's books, or Ananda's book, Intimacy With The Infinite (even just for her awakening story, it is incredibly destructive and shows how powerful the pull to truth can be, when one is living such a 'fake' and inauthentic life, pre awakening) I think afterwards if you don't change your opinion on RASA or the model, you will at least see the teachings are rooted in helping people awaken to their true being. And, if not, well we can agree to disagree and still be great spiritual friends WHo else am i going to pester with my LOA & Manifestation questions after all? Jim Newman, in my view is a Neo-Advaitan. Teachings which seriously contrast that of true Spiritual greats such as Ramana, The Buddha & Nisgardatta. It lacks any sort of heart & love, and to be honest, I find it very cold & it is simply watered down Advaita Your comments regarding Francis Lucille to me show a lack of understanding to his teachings, and the teachings of the direct path. He is in fact not talking to an individual but is helping the apparent separate self, see that the separate self is an illusion, and not only see what one is not, but see and stabilize as what one truly is, as well as seeing truly what 'exists' and that The Self / Absolute / Awareness is not only what you are, but is quite literally the fabric of existence, and ALL that is. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I think these half-baked teachers as Francis Lucille & Rupert Spira call them really need to awaken to infinite Love & the absolute before even considering teaching. I'd recommend reading the article above that goes into more detail about it. Personally, I think saying 'There is nobody there, nobody to suffer & no path' while absolutely true, often does very little relatively speaking to help a seeker who is suffering, and that is where discernment and skill come in to teaching. That answer may be exactly what one being needs to hear, but simply repeating variations of that at every satsang just isn't it, at least to me. But, if it helps you, who am I to judge? If you're stabilized in absolute peace & happiness then the teaching has done it's job right? ANyways, here's videos on the topic-

That´s cute, but you don´t fool me. You are mainteinig an ego like all of us. This is actually not even a matter of discussion, there are level of consciousness where the ego doesn´t exist and there are levels where the ego does exist. It exists as an illusion, sure, but since illusion can give you a very real toothache, for the sake of it we take that state into account too. See if you what you are telling me is that you are in constant high-awareness awakened state of consciousness, then that´s fine. I don´t believe you though, but yeah if you would then ego would not exist there.

@Adamq8 So you are awakened, and this is absolutely truth for you? You do not fear the hammer??