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@IAmReallyImportant If you can't tell that Daniel and Bret are smart guys, your head is screwed on backwards. Of course smart does not mean awakened or God-realized or perfect. Smart people can still say dumb things. And I have heard both these guys say a few dumb things. But that doesn't mean they aren't smart. Nuance.

Now tripping is rather shift in an energetical state, I do not experience very significant change in activity of the ego. When I tripped for the first time there was a very clear cut between being enlightened or not. During past two years I shifted from thinking to observing my energetical state. My decisions are better because I am addressing my needs directly. I also had my dark night of the stuff a couple years ago. I was thinking a lot about death and suicide. I felt like a failure and I sort of accepted this situation. This took off pressure from me. If you don't care about your life you can do whatever you want! I consider myself unenlightened mostly because of energetical impurity. My mind isn't getting triggered easily (ideology etc.) but there are MANY MANY MANY small annoyances. If there is any way to determine enlightenment, it would be ability to sustain observation without interruption. When you just observe you are awakened. I think that it also fit well to Turquoise or unitive stage. Everything is illusionary, there is nothing to get, there is no way to be shamed. Now decision are based on existential needs not complicated thought constructs. Love live is also better because that person is you, so you can always reach them inside of you.

The LOC model of Ramaji & Ananda has always gotten a lot of flak on here from most, and I get how it can come across. For those who can’t relate to the numbers & what not, Rupert explains in this video how not all awakenings / Non-Dual teachers are talking about the highest truth, and in fact, most aren’t. It is essentially distilling 1000 into a 10 minute video, also has some nice points that not all awakened beings will end up as teachers, in fact the majority will carry on as “normal citizens”

@AuthenticSelf I totally accept that you have awakened to your true nature as infinite consciousness. But you still seem to believe that enlightenment would make someone's life easier. It doesn't do that directly. Rather, it enables one to love and enjoy the struggle and hardship more. It's a beautiful game Disclaimer: I am not enlightened

Hi Breakingthewall— yes, the sudden and delusion do seem really different~ hahahaaaa! First, I will address the obvious point you raise (thank you for posting!) If one posits the Absolute (before the dichotomy of the primal organization) as different than everyday ordinary existence (being delusion), I would tend to agree with you. On the other hand, if one clings to the experience of Absolute nature as a thing, and then proceeds to reject delusional existence as something else (different), one has turned both the Absolute and delusion into things— which is itself delusion. And that won't do! The point I make is that reality (Suchness, being neither ordinary nor holy), is not dependent on the experience of sudden enlightenment. It not only is reality without distinctions (absolute/delusional), it is already thus, before the first thought, without needing to experience the Absolute (by virtue of sudden illumination). It's your own mind right now. If you see reality, it's your mind. If you see delusion, that's your mind too— if that's what you are doing with it. So, "reality and powerful enlightening activity do not depend on sudden enlightenment because enlightenment and delusion are not different" means that seeing everyday ordinary situations without relying on self-reifying distinctions and awakening to your innate enlightening function is a matter of it being thus a priori without first needing to see your nature. The point of this thread is the notion that nonorigination is not simply a reference to the realm beyond time. It is the unified operational ground of being, that is one's activity as the expression of enlightening being, selflessly so, adapting according to the time, from within the midst of, and by virtue of everyday ordinary situations. Potential is itself inherent in the karmically evolutionary process we refer to as "delusion." Delusion is the created aspect of reality, just as enlightening potential is the uncreated aspect of reality. Therefore, enlightenment and delusion are not different. Those who see reality, see potential, whereas those who see delusion see things. Seeing reality and adapting potential to karmic evolution is just a manner of speaking. For those who see reality, karma and potential are already causeless nondifferentiated unity without beginning. One sees delusion with the physical eyes, but one acts by sensing reality and adapting to its potential by having awakened to one's Dharma-eye. I said enlightenment and delusion are the same. I didn't say sudden enlightenment and delusion are the same. I said that reality (Suchness) and powerful enlightening activity do not depend on sudden enlightenment (the experience of seeing your nature in terms of the Absolute). ed note: add last sentence to penultimate paragraph; add first sentence to last paragraph

I can't believe I lost Cynthia Bourgeault's new book Eye of the Heart. I had read only half of it in which she already shared where the Kingdom of Heaven is using Gurdjieff's Hydrogen scale and the Ray of creation. She said the kingdom is found at world 24. Take what I say with a grain of salt because I've slept since I read this a couple of months ago ,,,, I found it though. To translate, this would be the inner world of a person who has integrated and individuated along with whats reffered to in the Work as purifying the emotional center. This is someone who doesn't judge and is conscious to the point where they're basically incapable of commiting violence. This is one of the best descriptions I've heard in regards to higher Consciousness. A fully Awakened person is incapable of violence! They're not complainers,,, They don't bitch or fly off the handle in a reactionary way if unpleasant events are encountered in their life situation. So encountering the kingdom of Heaven is an inside job. The kingdom is within. It's good to have a journal and express oneself. Even if it does amount to bitching about something. Maybe that's what it takes sometimes to process and let it go. Whatever it is. It's also a way of letting others into your inner world. As cringe worthy as that can be at times ultimately it means integration of your personal fragmentedness. Why is that good? Its the path to having your being. To fully be yourself, flaws included. To be completely at home in yourself. There's a tricky thing in regards to being fragmented. People who are fragmented most often don't fully realise their own fragmentedness. They don't see how it leaves them at the mercy of those who are eager to manipulate them. On the path to higher awareness, forgiveness through understanding is mandatory. More awareness will not be granted if you cannot forgive those who are asleep. I found a weighted blanket on the clearance isle this morning. I thought it might help me with insomnia. The thought of Temple Grandin came to mind with her design of the squeeze chute made for the humane handling of cattle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin

I like the distinction made by some in the Fourth way Work between acquired conscience and awakened conscience. Acquired conscience is equated with morality which changes over time and between different cultures. Awakened Conscience is claimed to be the same among all who possess it. One statement that frames this is that Awakened Conscience is the intelligence of the universe. Cultures are an enforcer of acquired conscience and is usually what we all are loaded full of in our childhood conditioning to different degrees. Maybe in the future when there are cultures with a center of gravity in tier two SD, this conditioning will be closer to awakened conscience. But now I’m speculating,,,,

Did you get awakened? ( just curios) How do you cultivate that kind of burning desire?

This guy embodies spiritual materialism. He has a big ego and portrays spirituality and sexuality in shallow perverted ways. I'm not saying he hasn't awakened to some degree but overall he isn't recognising just how delusional he still is. it's a spiritual kindergarten. It's a shame he uses word Yoga... and does this... he has no idea what Yoga is...

@GreenWoods When the Buddha taught that "all effort must be made by you", he wasn't referring to the conceptual awakening that people sometimes experience on psychedelics, or in other ways. He was talking about the deeper awakening, which is the opening of your spiritual eyes, and the lifelong journey of letting go of attachments, and manifesting the unconditional Love that is the essence of who we are. I'm reading "Being Ram Dass" at the moment. He conceptually awakened through extensive experience with psychedelics, but it wasn't until many years later that he woke spiritually when meeting his guru, Maharaj-ji, and even then he spent the rest of his life integrating the implications of that awakening. The Buddha had it right. Buddhas, drugs, or any other external processes can only show you the way. Ultimately the path of enlightenment must be walked by you.

Before meeting Ramana, Papaji practiced mantra recitation for 20 years. He had had spiritual experiences where Krishna would come to him and they would talk etc. He was one of those people that Ramana likened to very dry wood - very easy to start a fire with. Gurus can't awaken you if you're not ready to be awakened.

Happy/unhappy and developed/undeveloped are dualities, so these are viewed and understood completely different from the perspective of "enlightened people". However, awakened people function in the everyday life too. They work, have prefrences, engage in relationships and so on. They may even decide that they want to improve in certain areas in their lives. The big difference is that they don't do it because of neurotic and egoistic desires to 'get somewhere' or to 'get fulfilled'. They are already complete and whole (just like everybody else), so the decision is just a simple decision. It's much more free-flowing and no additional stories and certain attachments are involved.

People who have not faced deficits to survival because of awakening aren’t very awake in my opinion. It’s a common thing after full God-Realization for me to throw my phone across the room in an attempt to break it or flat out smash it to pieces. This is just one small example out of many things. If you’re actively trying to preserve your body, possessions, reputation, and pretty much anything else that makes up your ego, you’re still not awake to the fullest degrees. Last I saw Alan Watts drank himself to death. He never claimed to be awakened though from any of the talks I’ve heard. He always referred to himself as more of a spiritual commentator. I wouldn’t doubt that his spiritual understanding and experiences could have contributed to alcoholism or suicide though. I’ve certainly experienced many dark night of the soul problems that have been potentially worsened by awakening.

@Bacher Do you feel awakened after this experience? And if yes, how would you describe your awakening? It's more in your head/heart?

By 'argue' I mean discuss politely, of course. I'm looking for honest opinions; backed up with actual experience. Not the usual 'there is no I or other' type of comments. I'm obviously speaking of relative matters here. So if the above mentioned statement is true; you becoming awake should result in an awakened collective, instantly. The moment you're enlightened; everyone is enlightened. Flawless, real-time synchronisation. On the other hand; the idea is that once you awaken; the game continues on another level. Your job now is to spread your Light, your love and your wisdom and assist in the awakening of the collective. I myself am kinda neutral here atm. Maybe leaning a bit more towards the second idea. I've had experiences where it seemed as if me being super conscious meant that everyone around me was too. It seemed as if everyone knew damn well exactly what was going on. They did not use words to tell me directly that they're all God, but it was as if they were conscious of it. No matter what was being said or done. Then again; I've also had experiences where it seemed as if I was far more conscious than everyone around me. This would imply that there are levels and degrees to consciousness. Which many disagree with. Would you say that we live in a 'enlightened world' right now? Apparently; there are many enlightened beings on our planet. How come the collective is not there yet then? How come there are teachers/gurus who teach others about all this awakening stuff? Wouldn't that be unnecessary if all they really needed was to wake up themselves? Or could it be that they are not truly awake? Is it perhaps how they keep on waking up themselves? By seemingly assisting the awakening of others? I think these are some very interesting thoughts to entertain. Let me know where you stand. ...Unless there is no you, no other and no world. In that case rest in eternal silence. Thanks.

Both are responsible. And both are unconscious to different degrees. Still doesn’t mean the ‘victim’ deserves to be punished for their unconsciousness... they don’t even know they are unconscious. And both had lack of self love. Now the victim has more self love and has awakened more and can see their past unconsciousness.

if you think Sam is real, then you haven't awakened from the dream where he's a character.

Any awakened being knows there's no wave dah

Hi @Leo Gura Great self reflection in your new blog video! Your insights about the importance of balancing everything in your life dynamically are very valuable. Balancing spirituality with practicality or inspiration with the cyclical nature of creativity are necessary parts of the integration of expanded consciousness when maturing as an awakened, empowered and self-actualized being. I am noticing these themes in my own development and resonate with your messages. We are all in our own unique journeys awakening more into the inherent creative freedom of our true divine nature and I am very grateful for the wisdom and clarity you and many other great teachers reflect to us. This is a short illustration of how that freedom can be experienced by Bentinho Massaro, talking about the concept of 'true simultaneity':

I agree that a narcissist is also someone who doesn't want to hear that they're at fault. Same coin, different side. Sometimes you jab, sometimes you cash in. How do you know when you've transcended it? You see the whole dynamic, and just know. And don't get triggered - or identify with the trigger. I also agree that until you've become enlightened/awakened/mature everyone's got it to some degree and in some situations with different people. It's just ego, in plain old spiritual terms. Calling it narcissism is just the therapist catching up with the monk.

Define awakening. People can awaken to the unreality of reality on psychedelics alone. Do you want more? Ram Dass took psychedelics for years, but didn't experience a deeper awakening until he met Maharaj-ji, whose love awakened him spiritually. Do you still want more? Even after these awakenings, there is always karma to burn. Attachments to be dissolved. Even-mindedness to be developed. Unconditional love to be realized. Nobody, not psychedelics, nor the best guru, can do this for you. The spiritual work can only be done by you. Why do the work? Because, despite the difficulty of the journey, lucid living is so much better than the inevitable suffering of conditional survival.

What he teaches, the excitement thing is pretty advanced stuff. You could mess up hard playing into that game. Thats like type 3 civilization stuff. I tried a few times and it works but you need to be established in non duality and have a hardcore faith. If you have people around you, they will think you are insane... Just like if you awakened. Same stuff. That teaching will be good to apply in the future or if you have some money back up. He has made a living of that idea cuz of how fantastic and appealing it is to the mind. Imagine working at a Bank and suddenly finding your soul highest excitement is to be a high class chauffeur. My family didnt allow me and just interrupted the process... I think darryl wants to help, but is a joke at the same time. I used to be just as excited as you when I found him, lol.

I really liked what Anna Brown said in one of her video. We are often said "you can wake yourself up" and this can lead to the self/ego thinking it needs to "change" itself into an "awakened self". As if being awake is a property of the self. "Oh my god! I'm not awake right now! Ok gotta try harder! Ok let's go". None of this leads to awakening. I think it seems random because it doesn't happen when you try hard but it happens when you stop trying or stop thinking there is a self that needs to awaken.

I think, the spine should be vertically straight during meditation. Because, any mystical experience or awakening is caused by the passing of atleast a streak of Awakened Kundalini through the central channel called sushumna upto to the top of the head called Brahma Randhra. I once read that there are more than 800,000 different yoga asanas that one can use for meditation. But, may be some of the poses are used for directing the kundalini into different parts of the body so that it can cleanse those parts through its flow. The Lotus position may be the generic one which is suitable for many which is helpful in allowing the kundalini to pass through the central sushumna.

@Leo Gura What if you have both motivations? You want to avoid suffering and at the same time you seek Truth for its own sake? Is it then possible to find Truth/ get awakened?