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I do wonder if the separation was real or just perception. I.e., was something seperated from nothing such that I genuinely experienced BEING nothing. Or was it such that there was only something, and the sense of distance was perceptual - as in I was not nothingness but straight up nonexistent. I do recall the experience well. There was something, but it seemed that the something was a mirror wherein peering into it I could know myself to be literal nothingness. A nothingness which was present. I'm not sure which. But the actual experience had, it seemed I was nothingness and nothingness was observing the something. My ego etc being an element of something. Of course we see things come from nothing all the time (where is a thought before it is conceived)... But this is indeed a good line of inquiry... I've seen Rupert Spira in particular explain why duality must appear to exist, and consciousness appear to limit itself. Here is where you have to figure out if it's limiting in pairs of nothing and something (meaning there is an Atman), OR simply limiting as slices of something, which would be Anatman... If the latter, there is still a total nowhere things do evidently come from using human language.

How a you going to create nothingness? Matter can't produce nothingness. Nothingness is the source of all matter.

You're missing my point. "I" have "experienced" no-thing plenty of times, but that's the message... there is no experience one can recall of it. Because it's not... a thing. It's a lack of things. A potentiality beneath things. Edit: More to the point, there is literally not a single true word you can use to express the "qualities" of nothingness. Because all qualities are emergent from, latent within, and manifested as a modulation of nothing. But nothing, in itself, is a placeholder word. WokeBloke would be far better off trying to experience no-thingness instead of speculating about it logically.

You should try. It's very possible. Dissociate from literally all something. Imagine a character in your head, that's a something. Have the character point towards you. What substance do you find where they're pointing to? You will find no substance. Nothingness. A thought is merely an object like the character. Importance is: All something is finite. Nothingness is without limit and as such anything can magically appear out of it like the way red looks to a human. Because it's unlimited and unbounded. No limit exists in nothing. See where the character points, the nothing it points at when it points towards you. Whether that's 1 or 0 I'm not sure. But it's nothing.

Nothingness means a non phenomenal existence. So it is "1 nothing" by your definition. Nonphenomenal existence is the source of everything and the source of who you are. So it's fair to identify with it. ?

I felt the need to externally acknowledge to myself, on the forum, that I've completely finished the actualized.org chapter, as part of my healing and integration. As part of that I felt a calling to share whatever last remaining energies I felt about actualized.org in terms of me finishing up, and with that the opportunity to let those last energies go before moving on. There's no adherence to structure or form or agenda really. So its not polished or meant to change people's minds, its really for me. So before expressing those energies, I want to acknowledge that actualized.org was an integral part of my journey. I was very very lost back early 2016 when I first stumbled across actualized.org. I was just entering my first year of university with absolutely no knowledge of spirituality in general, all I knew was what my parents, teachers and media taught me. Actualized.org's video on "the most shocking truth..." opened me right up to a new sense of reality that I was extremely drawn to. It was a rough journey for me from 2016 till about mid 2020, trying to battle my immature desires based on subconscious social conditioning around sexuality, my career and toxic relationships, with my yearning for filling my life entirely up with spirituality, yet without actualized.org, I am afraid to think what would of happened to me. I've had autism all my life, and I've been naturally spiritual, so I really needed (and still do to a large extent) help with navigating spiritual planes back then and without that help I would of been in a whole world of pain, so I consider actualized.org kind of an initial savior for me until I ventured off into deeper teachings and live communities around tantra yoga(sexual and non sexual), psychedelics, hatha yoga and emotional healing communities around mid 2020. I'm going to just write directly from the heart and discard the thoughts/social patterns and conditioning telling me I need to structure this well or that it needs to make sense or impress people... I've felt, my entire life, extremely disconnected. Because I have deep down felt like I didn't fit in anywhere, and I always noticed that how I thought about things, my views, my journey, was extremely different to most people, or everyone else, and while I've been through a shit tonne of challenges throughout my spiritual journey, and definitely before too with the childhood traumas and bullying I faced, the negative emotions which stands out to me the most, and makes me want to cry, and that have been persistent throughout my entire life is a deep feeling of disconnectedness from feeling so different from everyone else and not really having much in common with people. Its made me feel insecure about my ability to really learn from spiritual teachers, because I didn't know whether they "got me" or whether I "got them". I felt like no one understood me, knew who I was, I felt like I was always pretending with people. I felt like they thought they knew who I was, but didn't really. I felt like I knew them a lot more then they knew me and that I had to put effort into always fitting in. This IS the biggest trauma of my life. Without this trauma, I've got literally no traumas left. Its rock bottom, and its so so so deep. It is who I identified with my entire life, without this trauma, I would have to reimagine who I truly am. And the amazing thing is, I've done that, I did it yesterday at a healing course that went for 4 days. And I'm over the moon because I literally now am almost at the point where I've fully reconnected with myself and have no big traumas left. And I just through the massive shift, had to share what I saw, even if its not relevant or doesn't help anyone, because it relates to my journey at actualized.org, and if I don't share this shift here then it wont feel like the shift is complete. Things started to get really challenging for me about a year ago when I went a bit deep in my psychedelic journey. I've got a very natural calling for following and embodying the path of psychedelic shamanism. Because in 2020 I went through a dozen or so awakenings, I entered a state of consciousness where I wasn't the do-er anymore, which meant "you shouldnt do this" or "you should do that" didn't make sense to me anymore because I felt like the universe was in control and not little electroBeam. So I was going quite deep, potentially dangerously deep into psychedelics, and people telling me "you shouldnt do it" or "its irresponsible" or "its stupid" didn't make sense to me because I wasn't the doer. LOL. So I kept going anyway even if it was perceived as stupid. I felt like people telling me that stuff was part of the story God was creating to show me a greater and even bigger lesson. So naturally didnt really listen, and sometimes I half listened and half didnt, and it was a bit confusing and scary and weird and super strange but most importantly, in the end super powerful. I had a big dose of mushrooms (through following my intuition) and what it showed me was incredibly deep and incredibly scary. And I was seeing this stuff within the context of non-doership, which meant I truly didnt feel like I was the one who chose to take this big mushroom trip. Sometimes I didnt know and thought I was going crazy, did I take this big mushroom trip or not? It feel really right to take it but everyone around me is saying its super dangerous. And the feeling of non doership is scaring me a bit because I feel like I've got no control into how deep my psychedelic path is going to go, God's gonna take me deep and I've kinda got no choice. It was scary AF. I had a total of 3 hero dose mushroom trips over the span of like 2 months, again all not my choice. It just happened that way. It felt really like fate, like God's chosen me to do this. Which in itself was a bit insane, because it felt that way sober too. Feelings of like "why me?" Came up often. The scariest part of the 1st mushroom trip was my entire life felt like it was created by me sitting in my room for 3 minutes and just getting lost in thought, and that the Truth beyond that 3 minutes (which was my entire fucking life) was something extremely bigger. And thats scary enough but the fact that you can't connect with many people about this is what makes it more negative because theres a deep sense of disconnection that you're doing this alone, maybe one of the only few people on the planet doing this. I had problems picking up girls because I was the non doer, so I couldnt pickup girls because there was no me, and I just thought that I couldnt pick up girls because I was too ugly, but the trip showed me that the girls didn't even exist in the first place, which felt extremely extremely disconnecting. Infinity to the power of infinity to the power of infinity levels of disconnection and depersonalization. Like solopsism. The last bit that was really scary was the mushrooms told me that this state of consciousness was how I always was, and that I just lost it during my personal life journey somewhere. That last part was probably the most challenging, because the trip felt extremely disconnecting, and then its telling me its been like this for eternity LOL. However, I was doing this stuff, this path, while in an enlightened state of mind, so no matter how bad things got, I lost the ability to really care. LOL. So when I was integrating that trip, It was extremely scary and horrible, but I didn't think about deciding to run away from this shamanic path because I lost the ability to react to how scary it was because theres no me, and I'm not the doer. So I took another high dose mushroom trip which was a trillion times deeper. The Tao ebbed into another even deeper trip. And yeah very amazing experience, highly challenging but loved it. I saw beyond mahasamadhi by a trillion, everything leo said in his 30 day awakening video was just a spec of dust compared to the peak of this trip. Loved the depth but scary as fuck hahaha. Leo's teachings said that your point of view is the only point of view that exists, and that you're imagining reality. That scared the shit out of me because that feels extremely disconnecting. Like theres no one else but you. And the other thing I hated about that teaching was my God state of mind is so powerful and beautiful that I want to share it, but how the fuck do I share it when I'm all alone? I can't!!! And I experienced that during the first mushroom trip and that sucked. The other part of that teaching I hated was this sense that there's no one to look up to but me, which means if I've got problems no one can help me. I saw all of that on the mushroom trips and integrated all of that into my life. Kinda just put up with it and got on with it. Like at the end of the day, no matter what the truth is, you can always accept it and love it so. Then I had a cactus trip, where what I saw on it was I was accessing really deep states of consciousness and afraid to share it out of fear that I would get locked up in jail or someone would take me to the hospital. Which explained why I always took ayahuasca, mushrooms, cactus alone either in my room or out in the forest. I felt much more safe taking ayahuasca at home alone then in ceremony. Always. Lastly I had a ceremony with someone, and he gave me a dose that was waaay too high for what I could handle. The first cup I handled myself, my entire life again dissolved into a few tiny seconds of God thinking or mentally masturbating to himself lol, then I got total amnesia and forgot where I was or who I was or even forgot I was born and lived, and I was just in this spiral place, where I felt happiness and suffering. And The aya was taking me meta on happiness and suffering LOL to the point that I couldn't even tell what I wanted anymore because it showed me how happiness and suffering were one, and it was super dissociative because I rely on chasing happiness and letting go of suffering to grow and traverse my path but if I loose the ability to care about that then... I dont feel like doing anything or growing or whatever. So it was a bit horrible but then again wasnt because I lost the ability to know horribleness. Then I left the spiral and came back and remembered where I was and who I was, etc. And was like wow. The shaman said thats a tiny dose just to prep you for the second cup and thats when sparks fly. So I took a trillion times more potent dose then that cup and wow.... I lost my shit physically and was running around like a freak. But what I remember the most from that second cup was I remember realizing completely that I was God, and that people are trying to find god through making nuclear bombs (because they are inspired to do that) but they should just walk up to electroBeam because they are confused and they just want electroBeam LOL. And then (this is so cool and powerful) I asked myself "why am I God" and the answer was because I created it that way LOOOL. HAHAHA. I'm God because I wanted to be God. I created everything including myself hahahahaha. Its not because of everything or nothingness or all that bollocks, I created all that everything and nothingness crap but the only truth is I'm God because I decided to create myself. And then everything else spawned from that. Then the trip got extremely hellish because I asked myself "Why is there satan and hell" and then I couldn't tell the difference between god and satan. Which means I couldn't tell whether God was good or bad. Like what if God is only good because I created God/myself that way and therefore God isn't really good. God is netural or even possible the devil and he created himself good to cover that up. And how can I truly know thats not true when I created God? Which then made me feel like I was literally hitler. Which was absolutely hell. A massive letdown. And again extremely dissociative. Then I went into a massive thought loop that did like 500 rounds. Where I really wanted to leave the trip (because it was hell) and as soon as I left the trip and got out of it, my shaman said well done you did it!!! And then I asked did what? Then I sank right back into hell/the trip again/went back in time, then I went through hell got out of it and again the shaman said well done you did it!!! And then I asked did what (I had amnesia so I forgot about what getting out of the trip meant) and that happened 500 times after the 200th time I was 100% convinced that the truth was I was in this hell loop my entire eternal existence and my life was a failed attempt of trying to get out of it(which all didnt feel too great lool). and I kept asking where is the shaman and as soon as I saw him he dissolved, so I lost hope in thinking hes real. Then finally the trip wore off a bit and I was in a concentration camp which made me do some things I wish I didnt and then finally got out of it. But again I'm in an enlightened state of mind so that trip gave me 0 trauma and I literally didnt care after it happened. I dont want to experience that again but dont really care if I do. So I don't wish to elaborate on more details, there's a last bit of energy I'm feeling now that I want to let go of directly, and that's the climax of this entire journey I've had(especially recently) which I arrived to yesterday during my healing course. I feel like I'm not expressing myself super convincingly, and I could express it much more. But I'm not hear to convince, I'm hear to tell my truth and to let go of energies. I went to a healing course where they taught unconditional love healing. Long process but in a nutshell I discovered some extremely deep childhood traumas that I wasn't even conscious of. I went deep into a childhood memory of my dad telling me "if you keep this up, your brain will get zapped, see on the TV that guy having his brain zapped? That will be you if you keep this up". I was 3 years old. He was talking about the brain zapping doctor thing, I remembered that all my life but forgot WHY he said it. The healing brought up WHY he said it. I remembered sooooooo much about my life from the age of 2-5. I remember seeing beings and entities in my sober state of consciousness, and energies everywhere, similar to medium dose mushroom trips. And I use to talk to them all the time, feel them, see them. They actually helped me function in society, I remember being on the couch and talking to a being I saw every morning, and why my mum asked me what I wanted for breakfast, I would ask that being what I should say, and he/she would give me advice. Back when I was 2-5 years of age, the ego wasn't too much of a thing for me and the transition to enlightenment wasn't really existent. I remember seeing hallucinations, patterns in the carpet, etc. I said this stuff out loud to an audience of people, and the fear and emotions I felt were overwhelming. Definitely cried hardcore. What was so scary about saying this stuff is I have very deeply rooted beliefs within me that if I say this stuff to people that will lock me up or take me to a psyche ward. And I got that from my parents!!! I saw that I was projecting that trauma of my parents cutting me off from my interdimensional beings in Leo's teachings. My mushroom trips were so dissociative because of that trauma. My ceremonial ayahuasca trip went a bit bad because of that trauma. The whole idea that you're god and that you're the only one that exists is not the Truth, its a trauma of mine. I feel so disconnected from spirit (because my parents told me they would literally put me in a psyche ward for the connection) and that disconnection showed up in my super deep mushroom trips. I thought (because of Leo's teachings) the mushrooms were telling me I'm the only one that exists, but that's not true, there are humans out there and they all do exist. What the mushrooms were actually telling me was I'm a little unique in that I saw spirit when I was at a young age. So I turned "you are a little different because you saw spirit at a young age" into "you are different because youre god and only you exist and no other humans exist". Also the mushrooms told me that I had never left that state of consciousness (that the mushrooms took me in). And I turned that into my entire life is completely made up and I'm stuck in a hell loop, which is untrue because here I am again and my life is real. The mushrooms were showing me that I just was in it when I was 2-5. Not that the truth is I'm stuck in a hell loop. Same with the ayahuasca ceremony, the whole hell loop was just a way of telling me I never left and my parental trauma made it seem like I left. Its true that I'm God and I created myself (as God) but I always also felt strong disconnection, I felt separated from other people while in that state (which you wouldnt have experienced it because you dont have the same trauma as me) but thats absolutely hell HAHAHAHA. Did it anyway because im the spiritual boss. Proud of myself to be honest. The biggest thing that healing workshop gave me was it showed me how by not speaking my truth, I was not allowing trauma to release which was manifesting as hellish trips and physical aliments. The whole trauma gave me autism, as soon as I let go of the trauma, all of my autism dissolved. I asked myself during the healing "how do I connect with humans if I've always at a young age been speaking to inter-dimensional beings" and the answer I got was "you need to stop excluding that aspect of yourself when talking to other people, the inter-dimensional beings are apart of your identity and you need them to function in the world, otherwise you will have autism". Which simply means I need to say fuck you to the fears of being put into jail or hospital for speaking my truth and do it anyway. Once I saw that trauma and let it go I was able to feel my Godheadness while also feeling connected to everyone. I took ayahuasca in the park the next day after the workshop. And I felt everything that I felt the last times, but with the new understanding that this wasn't unfamiliar to me, I had experienced this as a kid. And I freely and happily got lost in the state of mind, the state where your life all compresses and dissolves into a tiny ball, everything blends in with each other, the words blend into the visuals which blend into the concepts which blends into the body, every human body is like a little desktop icon all connected to the collective human consciousness, hallucinations, patterns. That sense that its been like that for eternity. The ayahuasca told me and showed me how I was misinterpreting the previous trips and projecting childhood traumas on it, and how the actual messages they were trying to show me was just what I experienced as a kid and how im reconnecting with it. I was reacting to the messages and being dramatic and thats where the suffering came from. I did it specifically in public in the park because I wanted to really integrate this state of consciousness into my daily life. Its the way of embodying the resolve of my biggest, and now pretty much only, trauma. If I cant be on ayahuasca in public, then I'm recurring the pattern of hiding that state of consciousness from my parents, when deep down it wanted to be let out. And that's it, Leo's last and highest teachings of you are god, only your POV exists, blablabla. I experienced that, and saw how the negative parts of it were my own deep deep deep childhood traumas projections, and now I'm embodying the resolve of it literally by taking ayahuasca in the park and speaking to people in that state of mind and practicing being ok with it. If I can be ok in the peak of an ayahuasca trip while talking to people, I've just shown I'm not afraid of showing who I truly am to the world. I'll probably get judged here for that story, definitely I don't think this place is the most loving and non judgmental it can be sometimes. I've been called stupid, idiot by Leo for expressing some of this path, and I've been called all sorts of shit by the other forum members for expressing my path too. Been banned(but brought back) partially because I was just expressing this truth of mine. What I really liked about the healing workshop I did, was they didn't judge me though, for all the stuff I was doing, they welcomed it, said it was brave, honorable and extremely genuine and authentic. And that was the straw that broke the camel's back, for the first time in my life someone accepted and believed in my unique connection with spirit. The exact opposite of what my parents did when I was a kid. And the opposite of what this forum did a lot of the time too. And theres no reason why you should end up in jail or end up in a psyche ward for taking ayahuasca in public. Absolutely none. Theres no rational reason for it, and I didnt when I took and got lost in the state in the park after my healing workshop. I realized during that trip that by taking ayahuasca in the park in public, I'm being my highest and true self, and people WILL get triggered by it because my highest self will prompt them to look within, but if I maintain my authenticity, the most that a lot if not all of them will do is walk away from me from not wanting to look at their own traumas. They wont come and try and lock me up or put me in jail because that will just make them spend more time with me, which means more time that they will be prompted to look at their traumas. So I'm safe, and its irrational and quite frankly ignorant to think that taking aya in public is a problem. And I guess the other bit is I'm aware of this. Maybe people who trip in public and get into trouble aren't aware of this, and maybe thats what makes the difference. I'm aware of this during the peak of my trip because its related to the biggest trauma of mine.

Okey let me get this straight. Yeah, everything is me, even pain is me. But also everything is nothing. And nothingness is my true identity. Now what causes this realization that void is my true identity? Imo It's an intense awareness that sees all phenomena as passing except nothingness. Nothingness remains the same. When one sees that everything is passing including body and mind. He realizes that I'm nothing at all. This causes one to identity with the Formless awareness. At the same time realization happens that everything that arise including pain is also nothing. Everything is nothing including pain. So you see, the way I see it is that total disidentification from everything also causes the same union with the universe. It makes your identity into void. And realization that everything is void also. Nondual void basicly. Universe is one giant void. Or infinite void. Did I get this part right?

lol What's funny is that there is nothing wrong with the lyrics themselves at all. Sang it every summer in Bible school. It's not oddball, that's just the most popular religion in the world and what many don't see is that many blockages towards awakening are the very same fear and revere dogma as Christianity. "Salvation" from what? It was all right there in the Bible school songs. Just minus the idea of a God who others and is above. Atheism and religion make love to each other and dissolve into beautiful nothingness together. Everything is always becoming, more, more, more. There's no origination point and so it ever remains becoming eternally MORE out of nothing. What could be better?

I accept that. And I think total identification with everything leads to love realization. And total disidentification leads to nothingness. I also think these are two truths about reality at the same time being equally true. One is that "I am everything". Another is "I'm am Nothing" I feel they are both true. One leads to total disidentification from everything and end of suffering another leads to total merging into existence. Total engrossed into existence and loving existence with all you have. One is dissmising existence totally another is accepting and loving existence totally. Two sides of the same coin. Yin and yang. What are your thoughts on this?

I've had the experience you are describing. What if the answer to the questions you ask is nobody or nothingness? Because all elements of the self or me, do move and change. What is unmoving is of no substance or attribute... Is that what the insight is meant to be?

@silene This would be of the former stance I think, which is duality within nonduality? Dependent origination, Dzogchen, the Dao, I've seen quite a few philosophies which acknowledge the duality within nonduality. The opposing stance would be to experience the same thing but see there to only be somethingness. @Nahm It does completely shut down conversation to eradicate terms of duality, it is impossible to share any mystical experience without saying things like I, this, that, X, Y. You can see Leo say "I" smoked 5-MeO for 30 days, or "I" became infinity. It's just a fact you have to use this wording. If a randomer off Google were to read trip reports where things are explained as such, it would be easy to understand, which I think is of utmost importance... 99% of people are never going to smoke DMT etc (I insist on saying "other people"), so any part of the 1% who do decide to, should be incredibly concise and pay the most attention to using the most basic and human wording. I said to imagine the man because that is what triggered this within a trip. Which was that I was watching these jester things then they pointed at me as if to say "don't look here, see what's back there". And it intensified from there. It became such that all of "me" was also some form just like the jesters. Which means the word "I" is a thought and hence form and hence observed, my name is a thought, my emotions are observed, there was literally no me left of me, because me was observed and I was the observer. I is not what you'd think of as the accurate term but I think that's inconsequential... I became pure consciousness and it was nothing, because everything was removed from this so of course if literally every thing is removed, there's just nothing. But nothing could not be without something, so the something must appear to even be able to know the nothing. I am not adding re-interpretations, it's exactly as it happened. But I think the experience could be had where nothingness is there, or there is no nothingness. I've had both in fact, the experience mentioned, and also of the merging of all. I don't fully remember everything.

Not so, and this communication is the very evidence of this truth. A character in your mind can do whatever you’re imaging in your mind, so to speak. There are no characters in infinite mind, if you will. That it is / was an experience is the re-contextualization or ‘claiming’ of, as your experience, and is not semantical. An ‘it’ which separated everything from a ‘me’, is not nothing, but is a personal experience of an it and a me. No one thinks. Form and not form is a duality indicative of the post interpretation. The separate self ‘slips in’ behind the scene, behind interpretation, and is woven into the interpretation, which is then re-contextualized as ‘my experience’ (two). Nothing can get back beyond them, because eyes is a thought, the actuality of which is very literally nothing, as in no thing, nothingness. No one knows a you can’t get back because there is no one who ever left. There seems to be an I which experienced and an it and a this consciousness. No one is of the view of anything, view is a thought. There is no it. There is no you. Not two.

@Nahm The "no everyone" thing is of course negating the ability to talk relativistically which negates any possibility of discussion at all. You need the ability to talk as such and say you, me, etc as separate entities. However I think this means that if a character imagined in your mind points into the foreground, you are saying that foreground is not nothingness, but rather not there period. My interpretation getting that insanely fucked on DMT, was that I was nothingness. The experience was that. It separated everything from me. And you think that means the nothingness was seen to be me but it wasn't me anymore... I was appearing to it because any thought or image or literally anything was a form. And this was without form. So like trying to see your own eyes with your eyes. You know how you can't ever get back behind them. This consciousness was not a thing I could get behind, anything that was anything appeared to it. I experienced it that way but I can ascertain you're of the view that it is not nothingness, but rather not there period. Where conversely, although it was literally nothing it seemed to be there to me, it seemed I was it (even though it wasn't me anymore).

Not so. Comes down to direct experience. NPC is an assumption, another way of saying ‘a you’, the implication is ‘you’ are ‘the playable character’. This is not / was not direct experience, this is conjecture. For sure. ?? ? This conflict reveals the ‘experience’ has not been, so to speak, directly experienced. What is realized is there is no everyone, and this is not realized by anyone. This is precisely not “an experience” “identical for everyone”. There is no you. There is no foreground. There is no nothingness. There is no everything. There is no appearance. There is no you. This does not ‘come down to interpretation’. There is no interpretation. “This” is uninterpretable, that is the realization, had by very literally no one.

@Nahm I would arrive at you being an NPC down that route. With literally no assumption, there is just this, I never existed before this or after this, and you are an NPC. We know what I am talking about broadly, I think we can agree to use terms like you and me for the purpose of having a discussion... A full ego death experience is basically identical for everyone, so we are discussing what we make of that experience. So for you was the foreground existent but nothingness, or was the foreground not there period? Or was there a meshing of everything, so any appearances seemed to be identical to you etc.

@Nahm To not talk as a separate self would just turn conversation into incomprehensible babble and extreme semantic difficulty. I don't find that helpful, you would literally never be able to have any discussion if we had to be that regimented... It is useful and we can understand what is meant when I say what I am seeing vs what you are seeing. I am making an assumption that you are seeing and you do know what is meant by that. So I am assuming something which isn't the typical form of Solipsism where the sight of your screen as you read this isn't happening at all. Barring that assumption and agreeing to not be semantic-Nazis, nothingness is not necessarily an assumption. Depending on how you experience what I mention, since I seemed to experience being nothingness. Others will have the same experience but for them it shows there IS no perceiver, not merely that the perceiver is nothingness/void. I'm wondering how and why people arrive at which conclusion.

Which part is the assumption? Everyone does know of form, but the "foreground" (which is formless), is that nothingness or literally non-existent period? Because it can be experienced and hence isn't assumption, but I think it could be experienced differently. My experience was of separation from form, and what remained as nothingness back and away from form which I then was. But it had no elements of me as any me/I was an appearance of form; I just say me/I because it's the only way it makes sense... But I can see people might also say there IS no perceiver. My own experience, I might say perceiver is nothingness, perceived is impermanent nothingness-appearing-as-somethingness, and the two together is contained as a singular eternal unit. But some will say there is only one side of the two, rather than two sides of one coin... Both are nondual but it differs here and I wonder how people have experienced it themselves.

Today I was sitting in a bench, blissing myself out just because , when...it hit me. Of course! Of course meditation is not supposed to fix or help you reach your goals and desires, and attachments. Of course. Meditation is not about the self. Meditation works for you to just make sure that you are always you. With that all entails. Happiness, peace, nothingness, death, right here. And if apart from that, you want to pursue goals attachments and stuff you think you need, by all means, go for it, switch Off the Self, attach to the mind, and try to pilot the beast the best you can, but know that meditation won´t follow you there. You will be alone fighting the wolves with the other wolves. And that´s fine. Not saying that is bad. It is what it is. Attachment, desire, play, it´s Ok. We came here to play. But Meditation is not about playing the game. Don´t expect meditation to help you become rich, don´t expect it to help you pick-up chicks, don´t expect it to help you become even charismatic or fun. Meditation cares strictly about You. Nothing more, nothing less.

Green is not red. Blue is not yellow. Green is green. Red is red. Blue is blue. Yellow is yellow. It is simply that red, blue, green, and yellow are all nothingness and THAT is the Oneness. The Oneness is in the shared fundamental reality/nature of all that is. It is not accurate to say green is red, but accurate to say both green and red are not two, since they share the same reality which is this infinity; nothing, something; infinity. I have read trip reports which use the terms of the contrast and say that they are another contrast. But if you use the term of contrast (like the name of a color) you are instantly talking from within the relative domain, and relatively the comparison does not work. It only works from the Absolute domain and that is wordless or infinity. Green is infinity, red is infinity, but green is not red. And green is not the totality of infinity which includes all contrasts.

Sorry to have missed all the fun. I was away from my computer yesterday! I would like to add that “And this is just my perception”, that many people in these forums like to project they are somewhat enlightened, conscious, aware, and love tossing words like; Nothingness, Love, Duality, Somethingness, Compassion etc. at the end of a statement or argument, which seems they are using to double down and add to their identity as an expert in the field of spirituality. And yet, these very same people have no problem taking a side in the pro-vax party, or anti-vac party as if they know for a “FACT” that their “Truth” is right, and the other side/party is wrong! What ever happened to all the podcasts Leo made about critical thinking and having an open receptive mind etc. Even the North American Natives understood the pit falls of being engrossed with a belief, an identity, and with emotions. They understood that if you want to find a truth, you must walk in the opposite direction with an open mind and an open heart, IE walk a mile in another person’s moccasins before accepting a truth! On another note; what the hell does an opposing point of view have anything to do with “Collective Responsibility”? A collective society can only be healthy when all POVs are accept as having a seed of truth! Labelling “ALL” Antivaxxers as being selfish, self-centred, narcissistic, deplorable, mindless bottom feeders is a state of closed Mindedness at it’s best and worst! I have been experiencing this Earth reality for over sixty years, and believe me when I tell you that your ideas, beliefs, feelings, emotions and the truths that you cling to today will change drastically in twenty years from now! For most of you, your POV of today on this topic will be different tomorrow, why? Those that continue to do the work and question, discern, discriminate every thought, idea, image, belief, feeling and emotion with an open mind will expand their consciousness and begin to see the truths behind the truths, which are behind more truths! Your truth today, will not be your truth tomorrow! Again, I am not for or against the vaccine, and I have played my part! But I am really starting to question the validity and the mind set the pro-vax (sorry, it's just a label to make a point) that are blindly following the dogma of “Lets just keep on taking booster shots to combat every new Covid variant that shows up”! Let’s close the borders and lock our doors! Really, that’s the answer? That’s our collective responsibility? I am not saying it is wrong, but I do question the rabbit hole the pharmaceutical companies are trying to sell us! And so should You! Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas and beliefs!

Infinity/nothingness/noone/nobody/reality/ god/ this/ ...

@BipolarGrowth In it (at min 05:32) he also mentions that 360° degree lens thing, remember? That was mentioned in some post a while ago... The POV (that last remaining speck) implodes into nothingness. And then it's like you are 360° everywhere. He also talks about what happens to "the bubble". That's really tricky to talk about. The bubble vanishes once awareness is recognized to be even less limited and then it's as if that 360° lens really becomes infinite, like really. There isn't even any 360° lens left. No boundaries, in all directions. Everything flows through itself.

Hello It was more of an answer-than a question. We shouldn´t work on division, but on union.... I think there are always two ways we can choose to act from - if we are conscious about them. One is from love and the other one is from fear. If you act from fear - you project onto others, objectify others, deny your own history. If you go this way most people will use spirituality as an escape to face themselves. Killing the Ego and staying in the Void-Mode / Nothingness Mode. You can go through life, feel like you are the smartest guy everywhere and you basically have no real empathy, as you killed your capacity for empathy with your "Ego". If you act out of true love it´s a completely different story. You stop projecting, take responsibility and do your own shit. You basically consciously decide to take in more into your own identity. You decide to consciously choose to build an "Ego". First you fully identify with yourself, you accept your history (when in my life was I a culprit and victim? and you choose to embrace those perspectives you lived). By embracing those perspectives you grow your compassion. By feeling inside and embracing the times in life you were on the victim end in a relationship you grow your empathy, as you truly feel. By embracing the times your were the culprit and victimized others you learn to play the game of life in a non-culprit way. What we have now is a divided society. Both sides are simultaneously the culprits and the victims... @Carl-Richard I felt a strong sense of victim-mentality in your posts. This seems like a projection to me. you don´t even know me, but you use your mind and rationalization to explain why I think the way I think, without truly trying to understand where I come from. This kind of argument feels kinda hateful to me. You basically say: "I am not open to discuss anymore, because I already decided I know all your arguments because you are just an "anti-vaxxer". Which you can´t because no soul can be described with just the label "anti-vaxxer". But this is just my perspective - could be completely wrong Love you all, we are all on spaceship-earth together and I don´t think this trip will work out if we continue with this rivalrous dynamics - trying to tell other people how they should live their lives.

I find it perfectly logical and succinct. The nature of nothingness (nothing exists including boundaries or limitation) means that it must be infinite. To be infinite it must include all possibilities. All somethings are elements of these possibilities in infinity. Surely that is the case? It can be condensed in a few sentences like that?

I’m not sure if you are looking for an answer, or are just leaving an open end statement to the GODs, LOL.. IMHO, the answer to your question has many layers within consciousness. The higher more meta-answers are found within. The lower 3D Ego answers can be found with basic 101 personal Shadow work; which includes, and is not limited to: Observing and seriously discriminating one’s thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs, feelings/emotions! Basically, everyone needs to do their work, model and project that which they desire! It involves observing one’s attachments, expectations and how we blindly create and co-create our reality with “All-That-Is” (God), which, IMO, is one of the most important aspects and awakenings required before one can truly understand the concepts of Nothingness = Everythingness, which everyone here tosses around like they know what they are talking about, LOL. Anyone can take DMT trips (which is another viable tool in the tool box), but doing the “Work” is another level that sadly few want to pursue. Having said that, most people don’t want to spend their entire life doing the Work, so they seek Leaders and Gurus to do the work for them! Sadly, most leaders and Gurus are in a space of “spiritual Bypassing”, and usually don’t walk there talk! When you get to a certain level of consciousness, you begin to understand how the teacher and the answers are within. You begin to understand that you are the teacher and the answer! It took me almost twenty years to fully grasp and begin to embody that awareness. I’m a slow learner Lol…. Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas, beliefs and truths that work for ME. Take what resonates, and store the rest in the closet until it begins to sing to you!