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My understanding of nonduality completely flies out the window when I'm interacting with people. As they tell me a personal story I imagine that we are separate and that their experiences are theirs whilst mine are mine. I believe it fully without being aware of the belief in action. The girl I got involved with was telling me about her sexual openness and experiences, and I could see a sense of jealousy arise in me. Mild when compared to the past, but nevertheless there. I have a history of strong feelings of jealousy and suffering under the idea of a woman I'm involved with being with other men. It's completely irrational, where does it come from? It has to be a sense of inadequacy, like I imagine that I fall short by comparison. Otherwise, why would I care? Yes, that must be it. When I was a teenager I was completely ignored by girls. I saw other guys having their experiences with girls and felt horribly inadequate. I couldn't understand why they didn't like me but that experience was so consistent that the one time a girl did seem to like me, when I was maybe 16, I didn't believe it. So I sabotaged it and remained invisible to girls. I only kissed a girl for the first time when I was 18, already as a university student. I think my teenage self is the part that conjures up these feelings of jealousy. If I don't clear these up, there will never be peace in my relationships with women, whether they are short term or long term. It's definitely getting better, I'm nowhere near as jealous today as I used to be. But I'm not entirely clear of these feelings yet. This story of inadequacy is just a story, it's not true. I guess I just have to keep shining awareness on these thoughts and feelings whenever they arise. I'm not separate from anyone, how can I be inadequate? Everything is perfect, everything is alright.

You should read what you are intuitively drawn to. There are powerful pointers, symbolism and even prophetic elements in the stories that resonate with you. You are the larger story, so the stories you love or write yourself within the greater story are elements of the subconscious (Oneness/nonduality) coming to light. So stories within the story can be a powerful way to unravel your own story and discover how you are creating it, and what you want to create.

It’s an aspect of nonduality/infinity/strange loops. All thought/imagery is eventually circular. To me, it’s only annoying when my mind is attached to it and does some weird ocd thing. Yet is usually a sign that the mind is still trying to control the narrative. A loop of that’s a thought and that’s a thought of a thought etc”sounds like a mind working through the illusory nature of thought, yet still wants to ground itself in thoughts as real. My mind usually takes it to Infinty/Nothing/Emptiness Poof!!

2 weeks ago I had a non-dual experience. I firstly had a non-abiding non-dual experience in the middle of the night where my outer senses collapsed and then there was no point of origin anymore, object and perceiver didn't exist anymore, everything in my field of awareness was me and it was full of life/energy/consciousness. Suddenly fear rushed in, and it was so strong that it identified with me strongly and instantaneously and i almost had a panic attack. I wrote about the experience on reddit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/comments/eluzm9/help_need_some_advice_from_someone_about_my/ Next day i saw a reply with a video from Rupert Spira, i looked in his eyes, then my vision blurred, and the consciousness which i thought was me (the part that's behind the eyes) was super focused and it inverted itself and then I had an experience where I was everything, I could visually feel and see my thoughts and they were super rapid. The best metaphor I can come up with is sperm cells going super fast and flying towards the field of awareness. Everything in the field awareness was super crisp and alive and extremely intense. It was almost too beautiful and strong. Reality didn't look like it was made of matter and particles anymore (what i was taught in school), reality existed because of consciousness, without consciousness there's no reality. Objective reality is just a made-up concept by a collection of human ego-minds and we just simply believe in this delusion without ever having experienced objective reality in the field of consciousness by being aware. So why do I think enlightenment is a bunch of horseshit? please read on: The way which I achieved enlightenment is observe fear as a sensation and see how fear embodiment has been running my whole life. Nearly all my life decisions were based on fear. People don't realise this but fear is the main driver for most of their decisions, it's so subtle that most people don't even realise it. Fear embodiment is probably the biggest stumbling block to a non-dual experience. So anyway, yesterday I was held up at knife point just outside my house and all this enlightenment bullshit went straight out the fucking window. I think what i realised being in such a position fear and vulnerability when someone has a knife to your neck, has shown me that even if you have some non-dual experience that you will have fear operating. What did all those years of meditating, dis-identifying with fear do in that situation? FUCK ALL that's what! FUCK ALL. I was terrified, I had constant fucking dreams about it, waking up in the middle of the night. What has my enlightenment experience taught me from this situation? That i would have acted and been full of terror and fear whether i did have the non-dual experience or not. This experience just proved to me this: God or whoever the fuck it is running this whole show has deluded humans and animal beings on purpose. I have a special place for Rupert Spira in my heart (Leo Gura also) but Rupert Spira is chatting out his fucking ass when he says that pure God/Consciousness doesn't know evil/fear. This is absolute bullshit. God knows fucking fear and evil, the fucker invented it. Where the hell do you think your ego and conceptual thought identification comes from, out of nowhere? It's created somewhere! Even animals have conceptual thoughts, they identify with other dogs, if they got hit as little puppies by a belt, they will be scared of belts. My dog is scared of bin bags because she got trapped in one as a puppy, so she runs away every time i change the bin bags in the house. That's FEAR using conceptual thought of having the image of a bin bag in her dog-ego-mind. God has deluded all of us on purpose, why else is enlightenment so fucking hard? Maybe God/Reality doesn't want you to experience it that's why, maybe enlightenment is a bunch of bullshit. Maybe non-duality is just an altered state of consciousness and is meaningless. When push comes to shove, it's your ego-mind that will save you. That nirvanic state of non-duality will not save you, it's a fucking hindrance. And when you have a horrific experience happen to you, it will be your ego-mind and fear which will be operating you and saving you and making you relive the experience. And Leo constantly bashing survival and all this, to me it's fucking nonsense. Why do I have the ability to produce children if survival is pointless? It's fucking built by the same God who's saying that survival is bullshit? absolute fucking nonsense. Honestly the only thing i want to do, is actually forget this enlightenment and spiritual fluffy bullshit, forget this non-dual awareness, Also fuck DMT, I don't want to do that either, just another altered state of bullshit, speaking to "aliens" which are probably your own fucking thoughts in the first place. I'm going to live my fucking life, get a security camera outside my house, get a German shepherd and try to raise children in this hostile fucked up world. This spiritual nonsense did nothing for me, I pursued it for no fucking reason. And as I said, spiritual pursuit is stupid anyway, why else is it so difficult to even experience it in the first place?

@Matt23 Leo has a different teaching style, which he has said comes from Vernon Howard, an American nonduality teacher of a couple generations ago. It's more of an old-school Zen master vibe that is very blunt. Leo doesn't beat around the bush, and will call "devilry" exactly what it is at face value. Everyone has different styles of communication... not everyone is going to be a Matt Kahn (loving teddy bear energy). And that's OK!!! If every teacher was the same, it would be pretty boring, would it not? God must take many forms to reach as many people as possible, and some resonate better with a different teaching styles. In my personal experience, I appreciate teachers being (sometimes rudely) blunt with the purpose of wounding my ego, and getting me to see the truth. I understand that others may not like that as much. That being said, I will level with you though. I am also picking up on a "spiritual ego" distortion from Leo recently. From the way he talks about certain presidential candidates with authority, relative to the Spiral Dynamics model, is kind of worrying. Bernie Sanders is not the most developed, loving, and compassionate candidate in this race, yet he spouts it as fact. I agree that he seems overly dismissive of other truth seekers on the forum. He recently denounced books as a potential growth path for himself, thinking he has transcended them... indeed this is textbook Devilry to which he has specifically addressed in the past. But what you have to realize is that it doesn't matter! Focusing on another man's problems is just a reflection of an imbalance within yourself. The Leo avatar is imperfect, for he is just like you and me. And God knows you and I have many problems that are deeper than his. Try to realize that your post is a distraction from doing the inner work on yourself. Be grateful to Leo for giving you so many amazing insights and teachings. And he is not done... far from it. You can still learn so much from him moving forward, despite certain imperfections. You can fully accept him for who he is. That is the best path forward. @Leo Gura "Always walk through life as if you have something new to learn and you will." -Vernon Howard Book recommendation: "The Law of One." Maybe it's time to delve into channeling, and see that we have information available from higher dimensional beings, not just human avatars. You will see that the metaphysics in that book lines up precisely to what you know to be true, and yet you have barely scratched the surface of all there is to learn. Take care, Leo.

You realized you are God and you are everywhere....with the exception of there still being subjects and objects...? Sorry, that seems like opposites to me. Maybe I’m missing something. You’re still communicating here in subject object relationship. Nonduality the real reality (1)...God (2)...in control of everything (3).

It’s more a matter of expanding your mind / self discovery / open mindedness. You’re going to drive yourself nuts overthinking. ?? “Is God in control of everything.” Is God (1) in control of everything (2). Since you are aware you know you are God, then nonduality (not-two) isn’t a mystery, yes?

Nonduality is not a model or a temporary experience. You're wasting time with this. Stop trying to model nonduality. This an absurdity by definition. A Zen master would slap you across the face at this point because you are lost in your mind and being stubborn about it.

Truth is NOT a model or a description of any kind. You cannot have alternative versions of Truth. Truth is singular and absolute. Nonduality is not a state either. You are not appreciating how radical this thing called "Truth" is. Your mind cannot hold it, it holds your mind.

Romance and nonduality/spirituality have been confused from the very start and embedded in little girl's minds. Or their nature is inconveniently and unavoidably one anyway.

Do you think that Lucid Dreaming can be a way to see what Nonduality feels like? If one doesn't have access to psychedelics, can LD be used that way? (until having psychedelics) And have you considered that your experience in your dreams was just a memory from your trips. If you had zero experience with psychedelics and no mystical experiences experienced, would awakening in your dreams still work? And in general, do you think that lucid dreaming can be a powerful tool to explore mind and do shadow work effectively compared to regular talk-therapy?

The integration of PUA, nonduality, Freddie Mercury and Miss Piggy. Only on actualized.org. . .

The insight didn't arise through meditation or reading books. It arose from curiosity and openness. One of my major nondual realizations of "IS" came a couple years ago. Below is a conversation I had with Leo on this forum. My mind was in a curious, open state that allowed space and invited the insight to arise through direct experience. At the time of this writing, I had never heard of the nondual term "ISness". September 28th, 2017 Serotoninluv: "Leo, since the traditional "you" is an illusion and does not exist, why use the traditional "you" while communicating on this forum as if that "you" does exist? Doesn't that give comfort and validation to the illusory "you" that it really does exist? Leo: A) Because it's ingrained in our language. All language is inherently dualistic, so it can't really be avoided without talking like a robot. B) Because you still think of yourself as a you. It does little good speaking to a person stuck in duality from a nondual perspective. Whenever I speak, I like to speak as though I'm speaking directly to you, from your perspective. C) Because you do exist, as The One True Self. Existence vs non-existence is yet another duality. So anything we say on this subject is always wrong. If you say you exist, you're wrong. If you say you don't exist, you're wrong. If you say you both exist and don't exist, you're wrong. If you say you neither exist nor don't exist, you're wrong. And of course, you're also right Serotoninluv: Thank you. For the past few months, there have been some glimpses of awareness that seem nondual. Would you recommend pursuing teachings on nonduality / teachings from a nondual perspective? Or, is it more effective to continue with duality teachings with an awareness that it's from a non-dual perspective? Leo: Personally, I consume all kinds of teachings simultaneously, dual and nondual alike. The scope of life is so enormous that no one teaching, not even one category of teaching, can cover it. But if you're really focused on enlightenment, it might be a good idea to only focus on nondual teachings for a while to build your momentum and reduce distractions. October 2nd, 2017 Serotoninluv: Thank you. Perhaps your words helped me stumble into it. Yesterday I had quite the shroom trip. Everything “is”. I couldn’t change it, stop it or escape it. Any thought, action, feeling, sight, sound. All “is”. I layed on the forest floor trying to regain my sanity. I thought “the trees are beautiful”. Yet that thought and the trees were “is”. An intense feeling of being trapped, more “is”. I wanted to contact you and ask you for an easier way. Yet anything you say is “is”. As things settled down, relief is relief. Geese flying overhead is geese flying overhead. A yummy sandwich is a yummy sandwich. Leo: Indeed

@naad @Nahm please dont derail my thread with nonduality/self-enquiry talk. Its a very clear question. Edit: cant remove nametags on mobile

I've seen this before yes it's funny... it really shows how limited language is in explaining the nonduality communication. ❤ thanks for sharing

Jesus vs nonduality? What do you think?

I was imprinted with a fundamental Catholic background. I later became a scientific atheist, which seemed to scrub out the Christian symbolism. I later transcended atheism and explored god within Nature, Buddhism, New Age and Nonduality. I no longer had particular resonance with Christian symbolism . . . I wonder if having a genuine atheist stage during one's consciousness evolution can clear out the karmic religious imprints.

You wouldn't be able to contextualize it without the direct experience. It would be like a donkey asking how a human experiences the world. The donkey would need to directly experience it. The question "What's it like?" is a very powerful question - if the underlying orientation is genuine, curious and open for exploration. If the mind is attached/identified to a particular paradigm, it will be oriented toward protecting that paradigm and going into debate mode. For example, when I first joined the actualized.org forum, I was much more oriented within science, reason and an objective physical world. One of my early discussions with Leo was questioning what he expressed about intelligence. He spoke of intelligence as some big inter-connected woo-woo "brain" in which my own brain resides. Well of course I wanted evidence for this and wanted to protect my own concept of cognitive-based intellectual intelligence. This orientation didn't allow me to expand. Yet I got curious and started to explore. This required that I set aside my own paradigm. It required a genuine, curious, open mindset. Not a mindset that keeps saying "yea, but" and gets into debate. Rather a mindset open to exploring new ideas and experiences. For example, I would ask "what is intelligence?" without intellectualizing it. I would ask "what is intelligence?" while meditating in nature, while in a sensory deprivation tank, before doing psychedelics. Then new forms of intelligence arose in my reality, which was beyond my contracted paradigm of intelligence. . . I was in awe of these manifestations. Then new avenues entered my life. The book "How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci" appeared and opened new avenues of genuis and intelligence. Then people with other forms of intelligence appeared in my life - collective conscious intelligence, empathic intelligence, energetic intelligence. Then I started experiences some of these forms. . . This allowed for a new resonance when I watched Leo's videos. If you are watching Leo's nonduality and are not resonating with them like "whoa, yes, so that's what it's like", you are likely low on postrational direct experience and high on rational intellect. If you genuinely want to know "what it's like", I would suggest working toward direct mystical experience to reveal what it's like. Yet this can take a lot of effort and practice over time. If you want to get a quick taste of nondual experience, I would suggest trying a psychedelic - at least three trips in no longer than three months.

One additional practice I discovered that I find interesting is to observe how the global ego is behaving in terms of the belief in personal doership. The whole world almost, is still totally trapped in the belief in personal doership. I only find that people such as spiritual teachers, especially nonduality teachers like Roger Castillo, say that personal doership is an illusion even in practice. My interpretation of the Bible is that it says that God is the only doer, and ACIM definitely says that the ego being able to do anything is an illusion. And probably many scientists will agree with that personal doership is an illusion. Yet still society still functions very much with the belief in personal doership. A collective cognitive dissonance of humanity. I predict that this will change more and more as the truth of non-doership becomes more apparent to people.

No! Truth = Absolute Absolute Truth is singular and the same for everyone. And here's the mindfuck: there is nothing but Absolute Truth. There is no such thing as falsehood or untruth. Just different degrees of confusion about the Absolute. The Absolute is so total that is includes within it all "falsehoods" because it is them. If anything I said in this thread confuses you or leaves you skeptical, you need to study nondual literature (see my book list for ideas). You're lacking a basic conceptual understanding of nonduality.

@moon777light Good. That was a nice newbie intro. Your mind is still very chaotic and random, which is why you had all those wacky visions. As you do more, you must learn to focus your mind and contemplate the nature of reality rather than just going on joyride visions. Visions are fun, scary, and interesting, but what really matters is getting down to understanding what consciousness is, and what YOU are. So far you got a tiny taste of what consciousness can do: it is infinite imagination -- which is why you're able to have all those wacky visions. But you don't yet comprehend what consciousness in itself is and why it is here, or all of its many facets. You also probably don't understand how conscious in the trip connects with consciousness in "material reality". You have to build an intellectual bridge between your trips and "real life" until you realize that your "real life" is just another trip. Keep your future doses low. You have much more to learn at these lower doses. Mushrooms can be extremely challenging at the 4g range and above. At 4g+ your old life and reality will start to completely disappear and you will enter the phantasms of your mind. Since your mind is chaotic and impure and lacks nondual understanding, you will encounter all sorts of horrors of your own imagination and you will start to go insane. 2 grams is a good solid dose to do lots of work with without totally freaking yourself out. Try contemplating questions next time like: What is consciousness? What is reality? What is God? What is time? What is "other"? What is self? What am I? What is awakening? What is love? What is evil? What is the brain? What is death? What is nonduality? What is awakening? What is Oneness? What is intelligence? What is Will? Etc. The next time you trip, realize that whatever your mind imagines gets materialized. If you start to think of elephants you will see elephants on the carpet. Wonder why does this happen? It happens because you are God imagining the world and the psychedelic removes the shackles on Infinite Mind. Finally, turn your gaze directly inwards and ask, "What am I?!" Be prepared for epic strange loops, paradox, and mindfuckery.

Yes, you can do that. Battling the ego can sometimes be a useful formuation, but often not. Often the better approach might be to love the ego to death, so to speak. You have to appreciate that every formulation will be dualistic. Every teaching will be dualistic, even nondual teachings. True nonduality cannot be spoken. Christianity is very dualistic in misleading ways. For example, the notion of being "a sinner" creates a battle between ego and God. "A sinner" is just a devil, ego, or self. But the sinner is an illusion. There is no sinner and no sin. Most Christians do not understand this. Christians gets trapped in the duality of good vs evil, which itself becomes the source of the illusion of evil. The mind creates evil by imagining it. When you say, "Look, that Hitler was evil!" << you just created evil without realizing it because you are not conscious of what you're doing. And to make matters worse, you then deny it and attack me for pointing it out to you

@Leo Gura So, like a proper devil that I am, I will ask the question: since everything is already Love, why must the ego die (if it does not even exist)? Selflessness is selfishness, etc. Why not construct a version (story) of nonduality that factors the ego in instead of battling it? What if Christianity is like that?

He is great to listen to, but just keep in mind that he doesn't understand spirituality, nonduality, awakening, love, etc. He makes some excellent points about politics and ideology that are worth integrating. He's not really a communist in the way most people use that term. He likes to be provocative. By "communist" all he really means is a larger role for the state, and moving towards world government. You can agree or disagree with him on that, but his points about how ideology works are quite profound and important to understand. He makes important structural points there.

Look, even psychoanalysis can be useful. It all depends on how you use it and what level you want to reach. I am speaking from the point of reaching absolute understanding of Self and reality. It won't take you there. Shadow work is useful but it ain't awakening. Have to be clear about your goals to select the right methods. Sometimes you need shadow work. Sometimes you need nonduality.