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I see where you're coming from. However, I think we should do more to steer people away from mentally masturbating about enlightenment and nonduality on the forum. It's a real trap. What you're saying is like, "well people know to not get addicted to opiates right? If they get addicted it's THEIR fault." We know that's not entirely true. Show more compassion! We need to take responsibility... this is a resource for newbies. If people wanna bullshit here on the forum, that's totally fine. But more could be done to make it abundantly clear that conceptualizing post-rational states of consciousness won't get you ANYWHERE. Not even a little bit. Talking to newbies about nonduality will never get them closer to that realization of their true nature, precisely because language is relative to an individual's experience they've already had. It's impossible to communicate a higher state of consciousness. That wasn't made clear to me until I had this epiphany a couple years after the fact. I've reflected on it more, and I don't think we should shut down this subforum. It serves a purpose in ways that may seem counter-intuitive at first. But I think it's a little too free-range as it stands right now. We encourage newbies to participate in discussions way outside their current consciousness... and that's honestly unconscionable if we really value their growth. Perhaps the resources need to be updated... made more concise and on-the-nose about the dangers and traps of such work. That's all I'm advocating for.

As stated in the thread, the thread was locked for spreading misinformation about awakening and God. Leo said in his latest video, the forum will have higher standards about the spread of misinformed opinions. If the opinions expressed are spreading misinformation, there is a good chance a thread will get locked. For example, if someone started threads about their "opinions" that the coronavirus is a hoax created by China, the thread will likely get locked. Similarly, the spread of misinformation about conspiracy theories, meditation, psychedelics, Reiki, genetics, awakening, nonduality, God etc. may get locked. . . One cannot use "It's just my opinion" as a shield while spreading misinformation. Be here to learn and grow.

Actually, in my model consciousness can flow into the entire body. Nonduality teacher Roger Castillo has talked about consciousness moving from the head to the heart. And I have actually briefly experienced expansion of my consciousness into the heart area. It was a bit different than how I imagined Castillo's description because my consciousness was during that short experience both in my head and in my heart at the same time as a unified field. I will experiment with allowing consciousness to flow into my whole body as a part of my overall healing practice.

@TheAvatarState I agree with most of what you are saying. Which is why I try to not not to spend much time here, althou the drama of reality can be fun to engage in However doesnt the forum guidelines and even more "non duality wars not allowed here" warn about this stuff? But maybe it should be added to that how this forum can be a kind of trap since nonduality cannot be expressed in language.

Hi. Yesterday I came back from the cinema and during the movie I was thinking about all the stuff involved with nonduality, God and so forth. That may not be a direct realization but I felt some kind of state "over" physical reality. After that I was going to home and during the journey I was more centered and felt really good and full of enthusiasm. Whole that state has gone after something like a few, maybe 3 hours. What do you think? Could it be some kind of mystical experience leading to the path to awekening or am I only cheating myself?

@SOUL Whether something is useful or not is up to each and every one of us to decide for ourselves, wouldn't you say? Relative matter. If you don't find my posts to be useful - cool. I don't expect my views to be relevant to all. In fact, I don't expect anything, at all. Just enjoy sharing stuff I became conscious of - as I already said many times before. I am also always open to further expand my views. But if the invitation to do so is not coming from a clear and honest "place" - I loose interest instantly. I'd rather keep doing my own shit and whistle on what you think about it. That being said; I don't even disagree with what you're saying. It's just that we're coming at it all from different angles. And we prefer different ways of describing things. Which is how, in my opinion, life just is. Where you see a story I see pointers to the actuality of what is. It is important to recognize which octave are things being expressed from. Words can be deceiving. The same thing can be said from different levels of existence and it is oh so easy to overlook the core frequency behind the symbols that are - at the end of the day - empty of all meaning. I fought stories myself. I fought illusion. I fought the self. I fought both nothing and everything. And then I got tired of it all. Now I just do what I find joy in. And that's a new octave. A new baseline that emerged straight out of death. There is no suffering caused by the "stories" I tell. Or the ones I live - for that matter. 1 + 1 = 3 may be actuality for you and me. But tell that to your neighbor. He'd think you're in Lalaland. He'd think you're lost in airy fairy tales. On the other hand; someone who has no "knowledge" on nonduality might just embody far more light and love than someone who's lost in conceptual chaos. He/she might be far more conscious, present and whole... Not knowing a single thing about any of the stuff we keep chewing here. (honestly) appreciate this though. Needed it today. Thanks.

It depends on the usage of "nondual". In the strictest sense, nondual is "not two". If there is "not two" how can there be a difference? There aren't two different things to compare. In this context, there is no difference between eyes open and eyes closed - they are the same. Looser usages of the term "nondual" might include an experience of a "collective consciousness". For example, someone might be out in the forest and there sense of self dissolves and consciousnesses is experienced as the entire forest (rather than "me" walking through a forest). Or a person could stare with a deer such that separation between me and the deer dissolve and there is only one. Seer and seen is the same. These contextualized examples are a looser description of nonduality. In this context, nonduality would be contextualized as a different experience between eyes closed and eyes open. I would do whatever you prefer. I've had what I consider nondual experiences with 5-meo with both eyes closed and eyes open. Both are good. For me, the experience would depend more on which psychedelic is used. I don't get CEVs with 5-meo, yet I get very strong CEVs on 4-ho-met - it's like being in the most amazing virtual reality imaginable.

Which one is true? Leo says "I am God", but nonduality teachers like Tony Parsons say there isn't anyone at all, there's only THIS, which is not observed by anyone.

Nonduality isn’t a teaching. It’s not something one could stop at. (No paradox)

@Arcangelo ? I see whatcha did there. Nice. @lennart I’m sure it goes by many names, but I refer to it as the inspection work & purification. “Judging and insecurity is back”... - ....”A thought which doesn’t feel good, arises, now”. Negative thoughts really are just one single thought arising now, which doesn’t feel good. We learned to listen to the thoughts (conditioning)... then we unlearn conditioning, by ’listening’ to feeling. When a thought doesn’t feel good, inspect it via putting feeling first. The emotional scale is a great tool for this. The root of us all is Unconditional Love, and it is very much “alive”, infinite, and present, and will clean out any negative thoughts - if feeling is put first. (The alternative is ‘suffering’) There is also the ‘path’ of duality to nonduality. Look for the Twoness (me+other, me+world, me+”myself”) in each arising single thought, to see the mechanism of believing-thought-suffering. Judgement. - Judgement of another is inherently false (me+other), as with scrutiny of thought, perception, feeling...and the inseparable knowing of them...there is no duality. It then makes sense (sensation) why judgement is nonsensical. There is also self-judgement (me+myself). Such as: ”I get so angry at myself“. The exact same thing applies, as there aren’t two of you...an “ I “ and a “myself”. So this won’t resonate in Truth-Love either. I refer to that as self referential thought...thought about a “myself” which is actually only a thought (not an actual self). Insecurity. - Same thing going on. When ’run through’ either the dual - nondual filter, or the feeling first filter...it doesn’t hold up. Ultimately the key is inspecting until you realize - you created all “negativity” thoughts, and are continuing to do so - BUT YOU DON”T HAVE TO. The same is true for self-judgement, resulting in “insecurity”. Mixing perception, self referential thought, and suppressing feeling...you created a belief, an idea of you. When this is seen, you could continue to do so...but it would be equivalent to cutting your hand with a knife. You simple wouldn’t, because of how it feels, and because you’re aware you’re doing it. So it could be said the name of the game, so to speak, it realizing how you did it, and how / that you continue to do it. As you do, the infinite love of God will clean it all right out of the body (&mind). The body is always in “purification mode”, there’s no “on switch” (though the first five minutes of the movie Up are known to trigger non-resistance well). This is why some people feel hurried, in a rush, everything is a means to an end, etc. The body is purifying, thought is suppressing.

I had this bird's eye realization, and it's still clear. The forum has never awakened anyone, nor will it ever. It has, however, led many people astray and wasted a lot of people's time. Again, just when discussing the absolute, awakening, nonduality, etc. You have to ask yourself, "What is the purpose of this sub-Forum? What is the mission of actualized.org?" I think we can all agree that it is to awaken and raise consciousness. If that is indeed the case, then this forum must cut off its arm, so to speak, to maintain the integrity of the whole. There's nothing to discuss on the subject. Any story leads you further from the realization that you are God. Any attempt to communicate to someone who is not already awakened just leads to more story. The uselessness, no, delusion, of this part of the forum is palpable. Delusion happens everywhere. People wanna masturbate, I get it. But maybe we should consider that this might not be a good place or set of topics to do it. Genuine people come here and leave more confused than when they left. I was one of them. It's not aligned with the mission of actualized.org, and I felt like I needed to speak up.

I don't think this is true. The 10th ox herding person is fully present, and goes into the village tavern and belly laughs and shows everyone else a good time. He doesn't need anyone else to be enlightened. He doesn't shout at the crowd to get woke... In fact, he doesn't mention his awakening at all. Why is this the picture the Ox herding book paints? I can really appreciate Leo's work. First I awakened through psychedelics, contemplation, etc, THEN I found Leo's channel. It helped ground me in my understanding and deepen it, but it would have meant absolutely nothing if I hadn't already been on the path. But notice that his videos accomplish something special that this forum does not. He takes special care to avoid the traps. He says over and over again about the need to transcend words and concepts. That everything being said is not truth, only a pointer. DO THE WORK. And there's no debate. The structure of a forum does not lend itself well to discussing Truth. Anyone can log in and throw their ideas around, and any attempt to correct these ideas just created more story. What I'm suggesting is that there should be no forum posts about consciousness, nonduality, enlightenment, etc, because any attempt is already a step removed. Instead, there should be a carefully groomed resources section and several warnings on trying to conceptualize this stuff. There don't need to be discussions on it.

I understand you, as it is a perspective I shared for a long time. However, I have recently come to a new understanding, and the message above is meant for you to challenge old beliefs. It was difficult because I realized that part of my identity is tied to this forum. I sometimes enjoy talking about nonduality and consciousness, but I was able to get a bird's eye view. I saw that talking about these things wasn't helping me, nor had it ever helped me or anyone else. Consider this: how can you "correct" bad concepts with another concept? It is just more belief, more story. That you created. And this can be helpful for RELATIVE topics, because you can learn more about them from different perspectives. But the absolute cannot be learned or taught, nor can it be viewed from a particular perspective. It transcends perspective! The illusion is that you are learning from others when they try to tell you what IT is. The illusion is that you are helping others when you "correct" their deluded perspectives with more words. It's all a game. Oh it FEELS like you're growing, but all it is is more story for the ego to latch on to. It loves a good story. It loves conceptualizing. It wants to make MORE sense of something that cannot be made sense of. It tries and tries and tries, never satisfied, until one day you realize it was all a game. Words don't mean anything unless you have the body of experience to understand, but at that point you don't need it. The only thing to communicate is that communication can never grasp IT or lead you closer to IT. In fact, it pulls you away from IT. It's helpful to point towards new methods or experiences. It's helpful point out the limitations of language. These are relative matters, so it works.

what a great way to embrace the spiritual path of the divine feminine. Something that this forum is in dire need of. Art is God expressed in form. It is a path that gives tangibility to the ungraspable concepts of nonduality, to take shape in form and create actual tangible conscious effect. I am always overjoyed seeing this, because I also know what a great courage it takes to follow through on such instincts, in a world that's dominated by the masculine. Thank you for being a beacon of light! <3

@Zigzag Idiot Thank you! Interested to watch it. @SilentTears No, I do not think that there is anything wrong with self inquiry. I do believe that following intuition and using creative new ways to go about the same "practices"... maybe without even knowing that one is doing a practice at all, is more of the path of the creative type. For example some practices that people have to do may be ingrained in you or second nature and others may have to seek these out and intentionally "practice" them. It makes a lot of sense that both paths would resonate with you. The book had a lot of value in giving credit to a path that is not recognized by many in this work, however the goal of nonduality is integration. It's both paths, all paths, no paths. In the end there is no real self concept of one on a path or having traveled any path at all. Many teachers teach assuming that the path they traveled and the order in which they realized things is normal, and that their map can be copied and given to others as if spirituality is a linear progression, like with most practical things you can learn. This is why people who are likely to really look up to a teacher and want to be told what practices specifically to do are more likely to see the more intuitive creative path as foolish, distraction and a waste of time. No one outside of you can make that judgment and can allow other's judgments into their consideration. We were taught from an early age to follow the rules, do what we're told and play it safe. Even in spirituality, where we let ourselves be free, an authority or teacher can still take that role of a parent or teacher without us seeing this tendency. I think the main take away is to trust yourself, trust yourself to follow your heart and uncover the wisdom that is already there. Trust the practices that resonate with you. For me a lot of my journey has been moving back and forth between buckling down and getting serious and letting go, accepting and practicing self love. Meditation and being itself is where those things can't be called opposites anymore.

Shocked lol? I really think there is a lot we don't know about each other my friend ❤ I was starting to assume you labeled me as an Eckhart Tolle Fanboy/Neo Advaitist's. I don't follow any belief system or have any kind of identity or attachment to any kind of teaching/teacher whatsoever. I am free.. Nonduality is just apparently the best word to describe the experience that occurred here for no-one. Awakening or Enlightenment isn't something to be rated... that's simply another form of dualistic perception causing division in the whole.

Aspects will not make logical sense. The desire to have everything make sense in thought constructs is a contraction. These thought constructs can have practical value for the human and person, yet it is also a limitation if one restricts themself within that contraction. One thing I try to be aware of is the nature of my resistance. If someone told me I would awaken by drinking 4 Pumpkin Spice Lattes at Starbucks and then singing Taylor Swift’s “The Man” while urinating in the parking lot. . . there would be an intuitive sense that this was nonsense. I would probably start laughing. I certainly wouldn’t spend any time debating this silly method of awakening. Yet if I was with a Reiki Master that told me releasing energetic blocks could help release my chronic headaches, it is a very different dynamic. My mind may resist and think “That Reiki stuff is a bunch of woo-woo nonsense. There is no scientific proof for it”. Yet, I may get a sense that there is “something here” I don’t know about. This is a very different dynamic. I could dismiss it or ague against it, or I could get curious an explore. These are very different orientations. . . . To add in another layer, if I got the sense that trying Reiki would change or dissolve my sense of self - that throws a cog in the wheel. Now, all sorts of self-protective mechanisms will arise. Sometimes, it’s best for me to work through that resistance to grow and expand. As well, there are times in which there is an intuitive sense of “No, not now”. Or “This just isn’t right”. For example, one meditation teacher encouraged me to have extended sitting sessions and sit through the pain. Sitting through the pain would somehow help me transcend attachment/identification to the body and allow me to awaken. Sitting through the pain started harming my body and the only thing I was more awake to was the pain and harm to my body. There came a point, in which it just didn’t feel right. I then transitioned to another teacher with a different approach, yet the first teacher still had a lot I learned from. Rather than seeing this as an “either / or” path, you can see this as an integrative path. You don’t need to accept 100% of everything Leo says and you don’t need to reject 100% of what Leo says. Trust your resonance. Perhaps have several different teachers you resonate with. I listen to several different speakers that have different approaches and I resonate with each of them differently. If the stuff about 5-Meo isn’t resonating with you, put it aside. Perhaps other teachings from Leo will resonate. As well, connect with other spiritual beings you resonate with. I know spiritual beings involved in Yoga, Reiki, nonduality, meditation, nature etc.

You need to look at some data that has been collected by scientists. There are children who in the first years of their lives (until 7 or 8 years old) have memories of a past life and are able to describe with uncanny precision who that person was. Scientists have observed this and have in many cases found the person being described, making sure that the details given by the child were accurate enough. I don't remember the details, but was very much convinced of the veracity of the whole thing. What does this mean for nonduality? I don't know, the human mind can't understand infinity.

From the Nonduality perspective: You (God) are infinitely everything. All appearances and experiences are happening within your imagination. Anything happening is happening because you (God) imagined it. One perspective of infinite possibilities. So what you think happened happened because you thought of it.

What anyone says about time, parallel realities, etc, doesn't mean it's real, since every-"thing" phenomenal is an illusion. The relative world may exist, is experienced, but is ultimately unreal (illusion). All things are created by, made of, permeated throughout and within, the only thing in existence ...awareness/consciousness (nonduality) So, time is illusion, in the most fundamental sense. I don't think there's anything wrong with believing in time for practical purposes. We all do it, but psychological time is extremely damaging.

Tonight I met up with the Czech girl for a few beers, and at a certain point I was spewing nonduality to her. I could see how it was going over her head, but just kept going. And some of it was just bullshit that I wasn't even conscious of, was just mouthing off. I guess I needed to get it out of my system. Or maybe I was bored by the regular chit-chat...

Aha, nonduality teacher Roger Castillo had Ramesh Balsekar as his teacher, and the example of causation Roger gave going in two directions, A to B to C to D and also from D to C to B to A (as I mentioned earlier) Ramesh describes from about 29 minutes in the previous video. "Cause and effect is not a one-pointed arrow, it's a two-pointed arrow", Ramesh said. That's the same as in my models where cause and effect is both from past and future and also from the future to the past. Ramesh also said that it's impossible to know the will of God, and that's as I see it a direct consequence of the two-pointed arrow of causality. We know the past, or at least parts of it, but we actually don't know the actual future.

The idea that reality is an automatic process can feel awful when in ego consciousness, especially when there is suffering. And to the ego an automatic system means something mechanical and robotic almost. That's probably why spiritual teachers, spiritual traditions and religions seldom talk about reality as being automatic even if it's true. Some of the hardcore nonduality teachers, such as Ramesh Balsekar have said it using different words, like in the beginning of this video: Ramesh's teaching is similar to my model, except I haven't heard him mentioning that reality is also evolving into higher and higher complexity and harmony. And there are other minor differences, for example the notion of time. And the way I make the idea less mechanical is to include the higher possibilities in teachings such as ACIM, the Law of One and the Bible. So my practice is to unify the mechanical idea with reality as infinite intelligence and as always progressing towards larger and larger holons.

It was a great reminder, thank you. Whatever you believe the ego to be, that is a bundle of concepts and images you created to give meaning and form to the formless. While I believe it can be useful in some contexts, ultimately it isn't real. And probably in most contexts, it's more of a hindrance than an aid. It's possible to create an enemy out of thin air. Yes indeed. Even "practical" states of Awakening can make life difficult in many ways, such as hypersensitivity, overanalyzing, difficulty in relating with normal people, etc. I'm sure that will get better with time. I'm not "being" it at all times, but I have the knowledge in the back of my mind. I often bring it to the foreground, where I'm aware of the beauty and infinity of the present experience, and this knowing stems from direct experience. It is not a belief or dogma. I guess I'm about as awake as is practical. This is the answer I was after, thank you. I still have an issue calling myself or others "enlightened," but now I recognize I fit the description. At least this particular and relative description. Going back to the original quote of the thread from Kryon, I actually resonate with that more. It describes a further realization of nonduality, one that is impossible to actualize without being awake. It's like the union of "enlightenment" and unconditional Love and acceptance for all of Creation. I believe that to be a much more potent description, and something I feel necessary to work towards.

My sense is that any answer I give you will be misleading because you are trying to create grounded concepts. When I was immersed in intellectualizing, I found it helpful to relax the mind and just be. I might have a background question like "what is existence?" and then I would let it go. If I was genuine and reset the question, often times things would appear. I wouldn't even be thinking about it and some type of message or insight about existence would seemingly randomly appear. Or I might have a dream about existence. In addition to relaxing the mind, other things like doing yoga, listening to nonduality speakers, sensory deprivation tanks, lucid dreaming, shamanic breathing and psychedelics were helpful. All of this helped me step out of immersion into intellectualizing. Also, I think you seem to be open and curious - which are important traits, ime.