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Seeing a higher level of interpretation in the New Testament in part, regarding the idea of the devil. Within the following long excerpt I just pasted below: The conception of the Gospels is that Man is continually being dragged down by evil forces, which are in him, not outside him, and to which he consents. By Man's consent to these forces in himself, progress in human life is prevented. The evil powers are in Man, in his own nature, in the very nature of his self−love, his egotism, his ignorance, his stupidity, his malice, his vanity, and also his thinking only from the senses and taking the seen world, the outer appearances of life, as the only reality. These defects are collectively called the devil, which is the name for the terrible power of misunderstanding everything that undeveloped Man possesses, the power of wrongly connecting everything. The devil is the aggregate of all these deficiencies, all these powers of misunderstanding in Man, and all their transmitted results. So the devil is called the slanderer or scandal−maker, from one point of view, and the accuser from another point of view. THE IDEA OF TEMPTATION IN THE GOSPELS PART ONE As we shall study in the next chapter the Miracle of the Transformation of Water into Wine, which in its internal or psychological meaning is about a certain definite stage reached by Jesus in his individual evolution, approximately just before he began to teach, it may be as well to consider the temptations of Jesus and the idea of temptation in its general significance in the Gospels in this connection. Now here it is necessary to grasp clearly something that is not usually understood. What has to be grasped is that Jesus had to undergo inner growth and evolution. He was not born perfect. Had this been the case he would not have suffered temptation or experienced such despair. Some religious people make a mistake in thinking that Christ had from the start such exceptional powers that anything was possible to him. But, as one instance, Jesus mentions the difficulty of healing a certain form of illness and says that much prayer and fasting is necessary before it can be undertaken. Later on we shall study some of these examples, but it can be said here that the most extraordinary views exist about the unlimited powers that Jesus had on earth, so much so that people even argue that if he were the Son of God, why did he not heal all sickness and convert the whole world? This is the same kind of argument used by people who say that if there is a God why are pain, illness, suffering, war, and so on, allowed on earth? The whole standpoint of both arguments is wrong. The idea of the meaning of life on earth is not grasped. In fact, the central idea of the Gospels is not grasped—namely, the idea of individual evolution and re−birth. Let us repeat the words used above to make the issue of this chapter as clear as possible: Jesus had to undergo inner growth and evolution. Let us start from this point. Jesus was not born perfect, as a fully−developed, a fully−evolved Man. On the contrary, he was born imperfect in order to carry out a certain long−prophesied task. He had to re−establish at a critical period in human history a connection between the two levels called" in the Gospels "earth" and "heaven", and this had to be done in himself practically, so as to reopen a way for influences from a higher level of the Universe of Total Being (which extends up through different degrees of the Divine Being to Absolute Being) to reach Mankind on earth and so make it possible for Man to have a possibility of inner development and also for some kind of intelligent culture to exist for a definite period or cycle of history. Of this period Jesus asks himself whether "faith will be found on earth" at its culmination. "Howbeit when the Son of Man cometh, shall he find faith on earth?" Such are the words of Christ and these words suggest that he doubted whether faith would be found on earth at the end of this cycle. Jesus then had to bridge the human and divine in himself and in this way re−establish a connection between heaven and earth. He had to undergo all the difficulties of an inner evolution of the human in him so that it became subject to the higher or "divine" level. He had to pass through all the stages of this evolution in himself by trial and error, until it was perfected, through endless inner temptations, of which we are only given a few glimpses. And all this took place over a long period about which we only know something of the teaching he gave during the latter part of it, which terminated in the final humiliation and so−called catastrophe of the crucifixion, and a few details of the earliest part, but nothing of the comparatively long, intervening part. Here is silence. We do not know where Jesus was taught during this period or by whom he was given directions for the final drama he had to enact, the heralding of which was given to John the Baptist (who did not know him by sight) and the ordained culmination of which is referred to by Jesus in many places, and, in the Miracle of the Transformation of Water into Wine, in the words he is made to say to his mother: "Mine hour is not yet come". (He does not say "mother", but woman. ) Yet some religious people imagine that Jesus was crucified because of Pilate—as it were, by chance. This view is absurd. He had to play the part allotted to him. It was pre−arranged. Now in the earliest references to the development of Jesus it is said that he advanced in wisdom and stature. Jesus advanced by stages. In Luke it is said: "The child grew and waxed strong in spirit and was filled with wisdom, and grace was upon him". (Luke ii 52). Luke—who never saw Jesus—also records his first words when he was found in the Temple at the age of twelve by his father and mother after a search of three days. His mother is made to say: "Son, why have you treated us like this? Do you know, your father and I have sought you sorrowing?" To which Jesus is made to answer: "How is it that ye sought me? Do you not know that I must be in all that belongs to my Father?" Notice that the distinction between "father on earth" and "Father in Heaven" is made—that is, between the idea of the first earthly birth and the second higher birth which was the subject of Christ's teaching. Even at the age of twelve those who listened to him in the Temple were "amazed at his understanding and his answers". The idea, then, of Jesus advancing in understanding is quite distinct. And it is clear that a long period elapsed before he had advanced to his full inner stature and attained his supreme development, called in the Gospels the moment of his glorification. This final fulfilment of his evolution began when Judas went out into the night to "betray" him, as it is called, and when Jesus said to his remaining disciples: "Now is the Son of Man glorified". But even then, it was not yet attained for he obviously had to undergo two further and very severe temptations—the temptation in Gethsemane where he prayed: "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt, " and the temptation on the Cross where he cried out: "My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Here must also be remarked that Christ began to teach some three years before he attained glorification—that is, before his full development. Let us ask ourselves: How is inner evolution reached? All inner development is possible only through inner temptation. Three temptations of Christ by the devil are mentioned in detail in the early parts of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, and referred to very briefly in Mark, in terms of "wild beasts". Nothing is said of this in John but the Miracle of Water into Wine is made as the starting−point of the teaching and miracles of Jesus. Let us study for the present the version of the three early temptations as given in Luke, in order to realize that Jesus had to advance by undergoing development by the method of temptation and so pass through stages of inner growth, by means of inner self−conquest. But let us first remember that the conception of Mankind in its unawakened state as given in the Gospels is that it is in the power of evil and this is represented by the idea that Man is infested by evil spirits. That is, Man is under the power of evil moods and impulses and thoughts, which are personified as evil spirits, whose object is the destruction of a man and of the human race. The conception of the Gospels is that Man is continually being dragged down by evil forces, which are in him, not outside him, and to which he consents. By Man's consent to these forces in himself, progress in human life is prevented. The evil powers are in Man, in his own nature, in the very nature of his self−love, his egotism, his ignorance, his stupidity, his malice, his vanity, and also his thinking only from the senses and taking the seen world, the outer appearances of life, as the only reality. These defects are collectively called the devil, which is the name for the terrible power of misunderstanding everything that undeveloped Man possesses, the power of wrongly connecting everything. The devil is the aggregate of all these deficiencies, all these powers of misunderstanding in Man, and all their transmitted results. So the devil is called the slanderer or scandal−maker, from one point of view, and the accuser from another point of view. But we shall see a little more clearly what is meant by the devil when we begin to understand what temptation really means. In the account of the tempting of Christ by the devil given in Luke, it is said that Jesus was in the wilderness for forty days, "being tempted of the devil". This number forty appears in the account of the Flood, where the rain lasted for forty days and nights, in the allegorical account of the Children of Israel wandering forty years in the wilderness, and it is said also of Moses that he fasted forty days and nights before he received the Commandments written on tablets of stone. Here, in Luke, the forty days in the wilderness are directly connected with the idea of temptation: "Jesus was led by the Spirit in the wilderness during forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he did eat nothing in those days and when they were completed he hungered. " (Luke iv, 1−2). Then comes a description of the first resulting temptation of this period of temptation, which is represented in the following way: "And the devil said unto him, If thou art the Son of God command this stone that it becomes a loaf of bread. " (Luke iv, 3. ) Let us take the superficial literal or first level of meaning. Christ hungered and the devil suggests that he should transform a stone into bread. "And Jesus answered and said unto him, It is written, man shall not live by bread alone". (Luke iv, 4. ) On the literal level this is just as it appears—a physical temptation. Notice, however, that it is said above that Jesus was in the wilderness forty days "being tempted of the devil". If we suppose the wilderness to be a literal physical wilderness, how is it that nothing is said about how he was being tempted all this time? One might merely say that he was starving. But in connection with inner development we must understand by the term wilderness a state of mind, a general inner state, comparable with a literal wilderness—that is, a state where there is nothing to guide a man, where he is no longer among familiar things and so is in a wilderness, a state of distress and bewilderment and perplexity, where he is left entirely to himself, as a test, and does not know in which direction to go and must not go in his own direction. This itself is temptation, for all the time he is being starved of meaning. Why should a man leave the familiar and go into a wilderness? He hungers for bread—not literal bread but that bread that we ask for in the Lord's Prayer, so wrongly translated as "daily" bread—namely, guidance, trans−sub−stantial bread, and, literally, bread for the to−morrow, in fact, meaning, for the development of our lives, not for our lives as they are to−day, now, but as they can become, the bread necessary for our support in growing, the bread for successive and necessary stages of understanding. (For the Lord's Prayer is a prayer about inner evolution and the bread asked for is the bread of understanding necessary for it. ) In such a state the temptation is to make bread for oneself— that is, to follow one's own ideas, one's own will—exactly as the builders of the "Tower of Babel" used bricks and slime of their own making, in place of stone and mortar. They thought they could make a new world from their own ideas. Why should one not fall back on oneself and so on life once more instead of waiting for something that seems doubtful? In Matthew the answer of Christ to this temptation is: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. " (Matthew iv, 4. ) See clearly that the devil has asked Christ to make bread by himself to ease his state—that is, not to await the Word of God. The devil says: "If thou art the Son of God, command that these stones become bread. " That is, nourish yourself by your own powers and ideas. But the mission of Christ, which began immediately after the temptations in the wilderness, was not to manufacture truth and meaning by himself, but to understand and teach the Truth and meaning of the Word of God—that is, of a higher level of influences. The test was as to his own self−will and the will of a higher level. He had to do the will of "God"— not his own will. He had to bring the lower human level in himself under subjection to the will of the higher or divine level. It is the human level here that is under temptation for Jesus was born of a human mother. To mistake the lower for the higher is the annihilation of a man, for then he will ascribe to himself what does not belong to him. A man will then be tempted to say: "I am God", and not "God is I". If he says: "I am God", he identifies himself with God from a lower level. This annihilates him. If he says: "God is I", he surrenders his self−will and makes the will of God "I" in him and so is under, and must obey, God— that is, a higher level. Notice that the devil is made to address Jesus in the words: "If thou art the Son of God... " and so suggests that Jesus can do as he likes, as if he were at the level of God. All this was in Jesus. It took place in him. And although this temptation can be taken quite simply as one relative to overcoming the appetites, in this case, hunger, it is clear that other and far deeper meanings lie behind the literal meaning and that they are concerned with those problems of self−love and power—and violence—in which human nature is rooted. Jesus had human nature in him from the woman—his mother. The task was to transform it. This is quite obvious in the second temptation, where Christ is offered all power over the visible world. The devil is represented as leading Christ to a "high place" and showing him all the kingdoms of the world in a point of time: "He led him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, To thee will I give all this authority, and the glory of them: for it hath been delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship before me, it shall be thine. " (Luke iv, 5−7). This is temptation as to earthly power and the deep vanity that lies in everyone. It is again directed to the self−love. It includes love of the world and its possessions. The devil will give Christ the world. Love of power (authority) and love of possessions represent two sides of self−love. Here the human level in Christ is represented as being subject to the most tremendous temptation conceivable in regard to worldly gain and possessive power. The temptation is described in such a way as to bring this out clearly: the whole world is presented to Jesus "in a point of time"—that is, simultaneously. Jesus is made to answer: "It is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve. " That is, not the world and its possessions. The answer is from the same ground of understanding as that given in the first temptation. There is something apart from the world and the love of possessing it. There is something else that Man must possess. This higher level, both possible to Man and already in a man, is the direction in which his desire for power and glory must turn. But even although a man knows and is quite certain about this direction, he can still be tempted—and even more so. Otherwise Christ would not have been tempted in this way. His human side was still open to this temptation. It is not only the overwhelming effect of the senses and any immediate appeal to self−interest and vanity that has to be thought of here but perhaps the far subtler ideas of being able, by worldly means and outer power and authority, to help mankind by becoming a king on earth. We know that the disciples thought Jesus was going to be an earthly king possessing the whole world and give them earthly rewards. They thought from the lower level about higher things. They could not at first see what Jesus was talking about—namely, the reaching of a higher or inner level which has nothing to do with the lower or outer level of life. We must remember here that the path that Christ had to follow led to apparent failure in outer life, and outer powerlessness—and to a death reserved only for the worst criminals. He had only a few ultimate followers. It looked as if everything had been useless. Certainly we cannot expect to understand this unless we grasp the whole idea of two levels. But we shall speak more of this later on, and only say here that temptation in the real sense is about these two levels and relates to the passage from one to the other. If Jesus had been born perfect, he would have been beyond all temptation. He would not have represented the New Man or the Way to it. He called himself the Way: "I am the Way", for this reason. This is chapter 2 of Maurice Nicoll's The New Man Its easily found for free on the net in PDF

One influence on how I see Jesus: Jesus as Wisdom Teacher by Cynthia Bourgeault When I talk about Jesus as a wisdom master, I need to mention that in the Near East “wisdom teacher” is a recognized spiritual occupation. In seminary I was taught that there were only two categories of religious authority: one could be a priest or a prophet. That may be how the tradition filtered down to us in the West. But within the wider Near East (including Judaism itself), there was also a third, albeit unofficial, category: a moshel moshelim, or teacher of wisdom, one who taught the ancient traditions of the transformation of the human being. These teachers of transformation—among whom I would place the authors of the Hebrew wisdom literature such as Ecclesiastes, Job, and Proverbs—may be the early precursors to the rabbi whose task it was to interpret the law and lore of Judaism (often creating their own innovations of each). The hallmark of these wisdom teachers was their use of pithy sayings, puzzles, and parables rather than prophetic pronouncements or divine decree. They spoke to people in the language that people spoke, the language of story rather than law. Parables, such as the stories Jesus told, are a wisdom genre belonging to mashal, the Jewish branch of universal wisdom tradition. As we shall see shortly, Jesus not only taught within this tradition, he turned it end for end. But before we can appreciate the extraordinary nuances he brought to understanding human transformation, we need first to know something about the context in which he was working. There has been a strong tendency among Christians to turn Jesus into a priest—“our great high priest” (see Letter to the Hebrews). The image of Christos Pantokrator (“Lord of All Creation”) dressed in splendid sacramental robes has dominated the iconography of both Eastern and Western Christendom. But Jesus was not a priest. He had nothing to do with the temple hierarchy in Jerusalem, and he kept a respectful distance from most ritual observances. Nor was he a prophet in the usual sense of the term: a messenger sent to the people of Israel to warn them of impending political catastrophe in an attempt to redirect their hearts to God. Jesus was not that interested in the political fate of Israel, nor would he accept the role of Messiah continuously being thrust upon him. His message was not one of repentance (at least in the usual way we understand it; more on that later this week) and return to the covenant. Rather, he stayed close to the ground of wisdom: the transformation of human consciousness. He asked those timeless and deeply personal questions: What does it mean to die before you die? How do you go about losing your little life to find the bigger one? Is it possible to live on this planet with a generosity, abundance, fearlessness, and beauty that mirror Divine Being itself? These are the wisdom questions, and they are the entire field of Jesus’ concern. Reference: Adapted from Cynthia Bourgeault, The Wisdom Jesus: Transforming Heart and Mind—A New Perspective on Christ and His Message (Shambhala: 2008), 23-24.

From my experiences so far in such communities, I have noticed that they require seriously developed and thought out leadership roles. One self sustaining spiritual/addiction recovery community in Thailand was very well run but one thing I could not help but notice was the sheer variety of people that were attending for allkinds of different reasons. It became a strange mix at times and their was nothing that could be done about it. The "leaders"/those in charge definitely had difficulties managing the place with people coming and going all the time and some people living their from anywhere between 4 days- 2 years. There was one dude who kind of founded the place but their was no one leader, and I can't see how it would have worked that way if it was. There were 2 meditation teachers, 2 yoga teacher, 4 different life coaches, and different spiritual teachers teaching different workshops etc. I can't see how it would of worked without this collaborate effort and designating different people to fulfil different roles while having that tight nit group run the whole place and maintain a stable collective energy as a whole community. Personally, it seemed like a big task to pull off, but they seemed to do it well. Power to em. That said, it definitely can work and it was very inspiring, but I agree with others here. Personal self transformation has to happen way before you even consider building your own. I would recommend visiting some around the world yourself for your own personal growth first.

@Serotoninluv What is the concern exactly? Identification with thought? Ego? There is no any. Thoughts are aware of themselves. Recognozed for what they are; imagination. No identification with imagination. No identification whatsoever. Honestly and naturally. I am not forcing nonduality. I am surrendering to it. I cannot be more than I am already. No real embodiment being noticed. There are no bodies left, really. No containers. There is only liberation. Freedom. Exploration. Thoughts are being thought and expressed in alignment. No body is fighting them or stopping them from being. Yet there also is the freedom to stop thinking altogether, at any time. Consciousness is conscious of itself. It is exploring itself. Expressing itself. Experiencing itself. Not caring for a single thing. Perception is illusory. Consciousness does not fear illusion. Nor does it resist it, or anything else for that matter. Illusion is how everything is. And so am I. Peacefuly. Getting more and more comfortable with absolute emptiness. Still, there is an ongoing process of transformation and expansion. I do not care how it looks. I simply allow the unfolding and express it in whatever shape or form I choose to. This thread is one example. I do not identify with words, either. "Consciousness" is merely a pointer, pointing towards that which cannot be actually defined or labeled. It is a concept I use in order to attain a higher understanding of what already is; effortlessly so.

so for the past about 2 weeks i think I'm having an ego backlash (i procrastinate, a lot of resistance, overwhelming feelings of backsliding ...) you get the point. i did a huge transformation in my life in almost every aspect of it and full of motivation to keep going ,but now for the last 2 weeks i still do all the practices but their not the best ex.harder to focus in the meditation and less motivation to even do one.and its been bothering me that maybe im just going back but i am trying to do the best for now while in this phase. so i was wondering if thats an ego backlash and for how more will it stay for and if you have any tips of what to do in that situation.

@pointessa "Initiation is related to honoring the lineage of gurus and not sharing information." The way initiations happen in Isha are purely to transmit knowledge. Not an objective knowledge that you see in books but a subjective knowledge that can only happen in a commited atmosphere and energy transmission. I heard sadhguru once said that if you go through the program and you have 0 clue what he was talking about. If you have no understanding what was happening. After 6months of doing the practice you will understand everything that was offered in that program because they don't just talk and talk. They drill this information like a seed in your energy for life and when you do the practice the seed will sprout and you will realise everything that was said in the program from within. It will just sprout out of you. If the seed is not there. If the initiation did not happen nothing will sprout. That's why initiations are so fantastic. Because they drill meditation into you on such a deep levels that it's forever. You can't grasp these subjetive dimensions through books. It has to be transmited there's no other way. If it was possible to just write a book on it then his work would be 100times easier. @pointessa "I am not sure it is a great idea to believe nothing you have accomplished would have occurred without the blessing of a particular person." It's not a belief it's so overhelmingly real for me like my 5 fingers. It's not blessing it's total transformation. People who go through his advanced programs within 24h they transform so much that even their face will change. It's ONLY because of imense energy that's been invested in them through intense initiations. Some people need to be caried by volunteers because they can't stand anymore. Don't confuse initiations with stupid blessings you receive in churches.

@Leo Gura does this mean enlightened persons can be concious of their immoral and evil nature and indulge in the same with out any pricking of moralality ethics and cheat harm others accepting that as their nature and inadequacy? So its just about getting rid of sense of me? Is it not about complete transformation of mind as well? No annihilation of bayd nature and habbits aka vasanas as told by Ramana maharishi?

who knows if it’s god or the devil who doesn’t like laziness! or do you think in the garden of eden there was no laziness? if so hammoks would not exist! what is laziness anyway? would there even be laziness without obligation/duty vs regeneration/consolidation/transformation or selfresponsibility?

Thanks for your reply. I was wondering about that too. I was wondering the same thing. Since we talk about enlightenment a lot in the forum, I'm going to include that here too. It does relate. Just allow me to try to explain. It's just what I noticed. Remember how Leo did the 10 ox herding pics video? Well, if you digged into that, you will notice that Riding the Ox Backwards is your awakening. That's when you are the no-self (nothingness). Then, you transform into everythingness. Then, there's a "major" transformation back into your ego (body) and this world (realm) where you collapse as a black hole within yourself. You flow into love (bliss) when this happens, and when you finally realize this, your physical environment changes in some way in the form of "ah-ha" moments. If you could apply this in your own life, you become 'enlightened.' You don't suffer when this happens, just like in your awakening, and you're completely detached from everything, including the outcome. It's the end to suffering. You realize that everything is you. That's why it surprised me that at the end of the video, the homeless man mentioned world peace. In the end of the 10 ox herding pics, there is a street person called, The Cloth Bag Monk, who liked to sleep in the snow and mingled with ppl in the market place, esp children, and liked to pass out gifts. I'm wondering, this Cloth Bag Monk lived his life to the fullest as a street person in ancient times. He just had a smile on his face and mingled and went with the flow of things. He didn't look like he suffered, even though his conditions may seem harsh. He followed the "principles" of the deepest awakening (wisdom). I'm wondering, what did he do for a living? Did he babysit out on the streets? Maybe, and no one paid him. He may have just lived off of donations from others since he was considered a "monk." Nowadays, we have the internet. We have a life purpose. We have research and great sources. We have entrepreneurship and startup networking with angel/VC groups esp in major cities across the world. This is our marketplace. We form ideas and exchange our ideas. This is because our society is at stage orange. In the Cloth Bag Monk's time, society was at red/blue. They didn't have the exchange of ideas and opportunities. I think it's time to form ideas and go to our marketplace. Here is a modern day Cloth Bag Monk. I'm a busy person, but looks like I have to follow my own advice.

@lmfao Yeah, I did Thick Face Black Heart. But needs a couple of re-reads with life experiences. I can understand it a bit since I lived in China, that is why I like it a lot. For instance, the boss had such a "big face" that everyone worked hard, and he had a "perfect" life. Multiple startups, always on the go was married which is culturally extremely important. Etc. Nobody would dare to question him(note I don't speak any Chinese languages), and everyone paid him a lot of respect and worked giga hard when he was there, it dropped dead silent and you could only hear the bosses voice upstairs talking very very intelligently and friendly by tonality, yet I have no idea what actually happened. Me and my co-worker from France always had to laugh at weird Chinese social interactions no idea, for me it felt like an anime I am legit not kidding lol, I loved it. Many people in the startup went to uni, no idea which. The French guy did his masters in economics Still, somehow either the culture or the boss abused the people, not sure most people stayed an hour longer. So, by contrasting culture and imagining how business is like. This book can be fantastic imo. For whatever purposes. I read the book integral psychology, this is a great resource talking about psychology and spiral dynamics. Premodern and Modern to Postmodern changes in culture. Theories from Psychologist such as Kohlberg and Cale Gilligan, various stages, quadrants, lines, levels. AQAL -> All quadrants all levels all lines are explained. Yet, it is okay to read, a bit technical, I am not a memory genius. So, talking about it helps or writing. I took a glimpse into the book, stage red is described by the lord of the flies, for instance, power drives, feudal lords, heroes, dragons. Is the basis of feudal empires, is power driven, egocentric, impulsive, heroic. (See any anime fight). "The Feudal Lords protect underlings in exchange for obedience and labor". Also, power and glory enjoy self to the fullest without regret or remorse. Can be equated with a black heart. If it would be the social sword and thick face the social shield. Where seen: Jame bond villains, wild rock stars, Attila the Hun, rebellious youth, frontier mentalities, epic heroes. I can see what you mean with that, owning anger especially with the preference of choosing anger as something good is from my point of view an awesome choice, instead of repressing it and denying it. I am owning my anger more and more. Sports is the game changer for me, yet I cought I could so I am missing that streak for now. Especially, in case you want to grow up stages in the Audibook integral transformation which came out this year, Ken Wilber mentions that weightlifting especially helps, to grow, since its activities the body. It helps with neurogenesis as is commonly known now and helps also to grow in the emotional line and one other line(+growth overall) Also, that training the "subtle", "casual", bodies the physical body is the "gross" body helps to grow in stages like tai chi etc. I am also doing a compassionate meditation now and split it up into 2 segments because I can't stand being overly compassionate for 1h. It is draining, and I feel too many setbacks from that 30 min works is perfect for now. The flow ( i am going by technique name) inside the body feels similar to anger, yet warmer, more colorful, happier and merrier. I feel it helps a lot with jealousy and frustration, I am by predisposition not a very jealous person, I am more ... resentful and frustrated. So, this is great. For counteracting that. (All three emotions). I have this from JP lectures and websites where I took the big 5 test. I assumed you might have read the book Quiet, I always wanted to buy it. Yet, never felt it is that important. I will still buy it in the near future. Ideally. I like MBTI, yet I made myself crazy, I still glimpsed into it. Reading it too much I feel I define myself to one stereotype at one hand at the other I feel when I know how each function works that I can use it to understand ppl and myself. I rarely get types wrong besides INTP, I often think they are ISTJ an ISFJ.. Even after watching so much of Leo's content + LP course. I like it as a model to deal with individuals and seeking out people who I know I click with. For instance, I get along the most as an INFJ with ISTJ is for me the most humorous of all times, INTJ and ENFJ work extremely well. I like all types. So, I don't care that much. This is the video I watched in the past about introversion and extroversion.

Also I shambhavi mahamudra kriya is not like in tao. It's just a simple kriya which somehow has this effect of naturally stopping the compulsive masturbation. I don't know if it's a sexual energy transformation or it is something else. But I know it works only In tao they do something different i think. I'm not the expert here. They play with their orgasms and transform their sexual energies somehow.

@Mulky during an awakening, since you're not embodied anymore, and there is no phenomenon anymore, you don't suffer because you don't have to deal with an ego anymore. Even during that transformation back to your ego, you don't suffer. Instead, you fall into love (bliss) when you embody back into the ego -- both the body and our world (earth realm). Now apply this to life. How well are you going to apply this to life?

no way out of the search, due to extreme suffering. that's usually when transformation actually takes place because the breaches and farces of the ego become clearer. in practice, the generic picture of such situation is someone crying, feeling weak and thirsty for deep changes. oh, i still remember the feeling. i'm so grateful.

@Shadowraix physcadelics are not harmful? Are they addictive? Will it cause schizophrenia? Depression? Or other delusional disorders? What realization/transformation it will bring except to slow down the thoughts in a dizzy state?

There are things that you can do without initiation. But there are things witch you can never do without transmission. Transmission is a gift from your guru basicly. It's not your meditation anymore. It's only a seed that your guru gives you and you only have to nurture it and care of it. Then seed will sprout and bear fruits. If you're not initiated nothing will sprout because there's no seed. Maybe your lung capasity will increase only. Maybe some new sensations will arise in you. But your life will not change. Your behavior will not change. Your paterns will not change. Sadhguru says Improvement can be made without any initiation. But if you want to transform yourself then you need initiation. Transformation means nothing of the old remains For example when I was doing self-enquiry and mindfulness meditation for 3years I got some benefits like my mental clarity was better, I was becoming smarter, I would get insights about stuff. Something was improving but my life was not changing. My relationships were all the same. My anxiety problems were still the same. My depression didn't go away. I still couldn't open up to people. I was afraid of social interactions. My life was exacly how it was except I was more spiritualy educated and with a better mindfulness over my mind. But when I was initiated into shambhavi my life just flipped upside down in a moment. Even on the very first day I was already a different person. I could see that I'm doing things I never even imagined doing it. Totally crazy things that were totally unlike me. I could dance, I could sing, i could finally express myself with people so effortlessly. These things were impossible for me. Such transformation was definitely not my doing. It was all sadhguru's doing and his grace that made this happen. It's totally beyond my understanding... Also don't get me wrong. I still see value in doing self-reflection and other things. It's just that there're things that initiation can do to you beyond your personal effors.

Just for fun, try to flip things around and observe Joe in this interview. It can give you a clue as to where he is on the Spiral. He keeps referring to how great Mike was. How much of a "Champ" he is. He emphasized how much fame he achieved and how much of tough guy he was. When in reality, he doesn't understand how miserable Mike was. His life was filled with dysfunction. You can see it in his expression and the way he carries himself. He matured significantly, precisely because of all the struggle he went through. Problems with marriage, drugs, fame, success driven materialistic mindset, anger issues and much more. Poor guys need to medicate himself, he can't relax in public. He struggles with finances, dispute earning millions. He had awful upbringing and never been a normal teenager. The reality is, that if you were in his shoes for even a day, you would never want to trade your life for his. The way stage Orange society looks and judges Tyson is very superficial. All they see is the materialistic achievement. In actuality, Tyson grew enormously from all his life experiences. His current understanding goes way beyond silly success stories. He even mentioned it to Joe, he said he's not that guy anymore and never wants to be the same. If Rogan was more intuned with Yellow or even Green, he would focus more on the lessons Tyson had learned and the amazing transformation he has achieved.

I'm an Idiot. That's why I try out the maps and hypothesis of great thinkers and mystics and who have came before me. Like Claudio Naranjo. And others. The more the better. And this has nothing to do with belief but understanding and verifying everything for oneself through Inquiry and discriminating awareness. His most recent book (2010), Healing Civilization: Bringing Personal Transformation into the Societal Realm through Education and the Integration of the Intra-Psychic Family, is both a continuation of and a turning point in Naranjo's lifelong work. For in this book, which has a foreword by Jean Houston, Naranjo explores what he sees as the root cause of the destruction of human civilization (as evidenced in the 2000s (decade) as war, violence, oppression of women, child abuse, environmental endangerment, etc.)—patriarchy—and brings both the problem and the solution home to an intra-psychic level. Patriarchy, he says, has taken root over millennia in the workings of our own conditioned minds.[citation needed] He also offers a remedy, which derives from the work of Tótila Albert regarding the "triune" being of our nature: the "Inner Father" (corresponding to the head), the "Inner Mother" (corresponding to the heart), and the "Inner Child" (corresponding to the instincts). As people learn to integrate these three "brains", Naranjo believes, they may bring about a functional, even divine, family within. And this, he believes, in addition to transforming education oriented to personal and collective evolution, could bring about the healing of civilization.[citation needed] In the Watkins' Mind Body Spirit Magazine he was listed as one of the 100 Most Spiritually Influential Living People of 2012.[7] From Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudio_Naranjo Claudio Naranjo was one of A.H. Almaas's Teachers. Stabilizing the Realization of Presence I am clarifying the relationship between our central practices of inquiry and nondoing from the perspective of totality. How do we practice nondoing? Isn't that doing something? How can inquiring be nondoing? Exploring the paradox of nondoing brings us closer to how reality actually works. Nondoing supports the practice of inquiry by emphasizing beingness, presence, and noninterference. Inquiry develops the discriminating intelligence of Being and integrates that into our process. At some point, our inquiry can engage our process without interfering with our experience, and our nondoing can attain the dynamic intelligence of Being in service of discerning what is true. The practice of inquiry is actively engaged because we are engaged with life. We are living and we are active, and part of our living is the engaged practice of inquiry. Inquiry doesn’t mean that we are always asking ourselves questions. It doesn’t mean that we are always sitting around thinking. Inquiry is the natural and spontaneous flow of our interest in life. When something is not understood, a spontaneous movement and inquiry arises that may not even be formulated as a question. All we know is that something is not understood and, after a while, there is a revelation or a further discernment. The stillness and quietness of our concentration practice helps stabilize the condition of nondoing, which is the base of the practice of inquiry. Concentration and nondoing support and stabilize the realization of presence, the realization of true nature. Inquiry helps to discriminate and integrate this realization as well as to develop it and open it to further possibilities, which are partly a response to our life and its circumstances. Runaway Realization, pg. 135

Being a Human Being and Still Being the Absolute The development of consciousness has to do with living in this life from the perspective of the Absolute. The Personal Essence, the Pearl Beyond Price, has to do with being a human being and still being the Absolute. If you’re just the Absolute, you are not a human being. But you live in this world, you have a physical body and a mind, you have work and relationships. You need the Personal Essence in order to be able to live personally as a human being and still be the Absolute. So the development of the personal aspect has to do with integrating all of these things that are important for our life into the various levels of consciousness, and then into the Absolute. This is an actual process that has to do with the metabolism of the Absolute into the Personal Essence. Although it is rarely mentioned in spiritual literature, the integration of the person into the Absolute is vital because we live in the world and not in a monastery or cave. Integrating the person into the Absolute is more difficult than experiencing the Absolute. Integration requires that you deal with and metabolize your unconscious and your personal history. You have to really let all of the unconscious come out, to face all of your specific issues and areas of conflict and ignorance. Many traditions don’t care about integration but strive only to reach the Absolute. They don’t care about the personal life. The point for them is to know the Absolute and leave. In other traditions, and in our work, the point is to know the Absolute and live in the world as an expression of it. So how can you live a human life from the perspective of absence? That is the realm of development, change, and transformation within consciousness. The Pearl is the Actualized Individuation of Your Soul When you are who you are, when you are just precisely yourself, you are your “point.” Just that. This has nothing to do with any qualities, functions, capacities, and skills you may have. It has nothing to do with your status in the world, and nothing to do with living this life in a body or not in a body. It is your nature. The Pearl Beyond Price is the connection between this genuine center and all the capacities, skills, and understanding that are a part of your growth as a human being. It allows your capacities, functions and accomplishments to develop in a genuine way as an outgrowth of your spontaneous unfoldment. It is the result of living in the moment, living in a way that is true to who you are. This is your genuine personal life, your own development, your own growth. The pearl is the actualized individuation of your Soul. So the personal essence is connected with your unique function, your unique work in this life. To actualize your particular unique work in this life means to be your personal essence. It is the essence of all that you have developed and integrated in your soul as you live a real life. Everyone is born with the true self, with the point. Although we feel that the point is unique in each of us, the quality of the point is universal. Then how do people become so different in their personal lives? This is due to the particular development of their personal essence.

@winterknight @Aakash There is no i feeling sense of "me" seperatedness. 1.So how does it feel to be? In the absence of thoughts you know you exist or not? 2.Or because of bodily sensations breath there is a feeling of life? 3.Why some ppl refer this as death? Actually in deep sleep when one is not aware of anything can be compared to death? 4.Why one is not aware of deep sleep? What happens to the conciousness in deep sleep if it is ever exsisting changeless reality? 5.When the i feeling vanishes so one is devoid completely of i mine myself? Selfish thoughts? Becomes completely desireless? 6.Does enlightenment means complete sleep less sleep state devoid of thoughts and pure silence i.e sagaja samaadhi as said by sri ramana maharishi? 7.Does enlightenment mean complete transformation of mind and the mind is free from (kama krodha mogha lobha madha mascharya damba garva soodu soranai vekka maana rosham) not sure if aakash will understand this words but hope winterknight will. Thank you.

@Cortex yes, you are. You are nothingness (no-self). Then, you transform into everythingness. From there you transform back into your ego. While this is taking place, you are at peace--no suffering at all. You're completely detached from what is occurring. You're complete and free (even while making such a transformation). When you go back to your physical ego and this physical world, you'll think that this experience is absolutely amazing! Oh wow! It's so massive being that infinite black hole and collapsing into myself! Because you felt a love (bliss) when you became embodied again--which indicate that you're in the to love realm--earth. However, even though it's amazing to the ego, it's really nothing. Later, if you look carefully, life itself (you) operates on the "principles" of an awakening. Yes, sometimes life may seem hard. You have to struggle to work. Some ppl really are in a "horrible" situation. But, "horrible" is an illusion and it's temporary. This is just a scarcity mindset. There is no distance between you and success. Your awakening points out that distance is an illusuion. Everything is temporary. There are always ways to learn to get out of it and go with the flow of life. Transformations in life are flows. Flow into love. You did that in your awakening. Learn to love yourself first and eventually others. Teach them how to live and love. When you mastered this, you become "enlightened." Beautiful life lessons from the deepest awakening that can be applied to living life to the fullest: Easier said than done. Sometimes we have to unlearn many things.

I don't think anything in particular, in these improvisations I don't think of any form or transformation. I don't put myself in any stage but if you want to have a taste in piano instrument, that's how would It sound.

@ivankiss @Aakash what are the both of you going to do to trigger some peace in this world? I know Aakash, you want to build schools in the end. I'm also in the educational field. I'm a bilingual teacher. So, I have done some work already online but have a long way to go. It's part of my life purpose. If you ever get the deepest awakening in your life, I have to caution you to be careful. After becoming the nothingness (no-self) and transforming back into your ego, initially, you will think that it's absolutely beautiful!!! You will feel like you conquered the world!!! You know, grandiose. But, that's the danger of having such wisdom. It can be misinterpreted by the ego. Notice that when you are the no-self, all you will "feel" is peace--no suffering at all. Even when you are making a major (massive) transformation back into your ego, Truth (nothingness) will only view it as a transformation, and nothing else, nothing more. It thinks nothing special of it. It's detached. If you decide to incorporate this wisdom into your life purpose, be careful not to make it seem like it's superior / grandiose. If so, this is probably how cults get started because such wisdom is misinterpreted and misunderstood by the ego.

Daily meditation Yesterday I meditated for two hours together with two friends. It was really nice. Sat for 45 min again this morning. I'm noticing that my meditation practice is not as daily as I want it to be, and that I write about many things here that are not directly related to my efforts to keep up a daily meditation practice. Perhaps I'll need to put some kind of structure on this, but to begin with I'll just say that from now on I'll make an effort to at least meditate once per day, without putting any time-requirements on for how long quite yet. For me today, meditation represented the transformation from negative energy to positive energy. Also when I walked around outside afterwards I felt like I was living my deepest purpose just by being in a state of presence. That is a pretty cool feeling. I was enough just by the simple fact of being. Nothing extra needed. I will mediate for 45 more minutes now just to celebrate that feeling. And I will try to make this journal more specific about my attempts to master the craft of meditation. I'm still suffering from spreading myself too thin, and it is pretty clear that I should intensify my efforts at gathering and collecting my energy in a state of presence.

Some here are working with focus mostly on the body. Their center of gravity is manifesting in their jack of spades and clubs and queen spades and clubs. Some here are working more from a need to heal their suffering of emotions or lack of fulfillment. They are in their jack of hearts and Queen of hearts. If they are able to do this through all their moods they are beginning to access their Kings. The intellectual parts of all the centers. Some are passionate about addressing work on self and inquiry from intellectual analysis. They're in their Queen of Diamonds. The emotional part of the intellectual center. Those who can do this with steady intention and impartiality are accessing their Kings of Diamonds and Hearts. Emoting is sleep. When a topic in the forum becomes hot, people are feeding off that energy. It can be a worthy or a frivolous idea. It doesn't matter. I can name it and yet I still do it, so I'm not excluding myself. Most are completely asleep to this notion. But for those of you reading this who has just had 'the light come on'. ,,, "Welcome to the club". Your now going to fall asleep again and thousands of times more in the next few years. If you really try to point out the worthlessness of expressing negative emotions to people who are not ready, they will hate on you. We don't have to take things in a negative way. But we do and the degree to which that happens determines how miserable we become in our emotional world. Trying to act like a Saint is ignorant and self defeating unless it's a part of a specific practice with set end points. It's ok to feel that horrible stuff. We need to. But if we act on it, in our discomfort, we only start adding to our misery. It takes a while to realize this then it takes more time in getting used to working on oneself,,, doing Inquiry. Then it takes longer still to begin to notice the slow unfoldment of a Transformation. We can't change because just changing never lasts. We have to transform. Or go through Transformation. This is about stages. We can experience a higher state of Consciousness any time. They never last.

@plutoIncredible! However, I always find the location and scale of an artwork are incredibly important to produce the desired effect. The first painting in a 20ft height room is tingling sensations and euphoria, in a passport size, it's a cool digital drawing someone made. I find Marina Abramovic's work stemming from pain, which is effective because pain, particularly physical, is familiar to most people. Plus, empathy aka 'mirror neurons' and there's art that made chills run down your spine. Except the core/source, many lessons to learn there. I found this fascinating article by Alex Grey on his meeting with Ken Wilber: https://www.alexgrey.com/media/writing/essays/for-ken-wilber/ Here are some excerpts: .. Where is the spiritually inclined, philosophically minded artist to turn?” And Ken replied, “My advice would be to go back to the German idealists like Schopenhauer. He was the last great philosopher to deal with the transcendental function of art. Joseph Campbell wrote a wonderful book called Creative Mythology, part of his Masks of God series of books. Campbell summarizes Schopenhauer’s aesthetics pretty well, so that would be the easiest entry to his thought. If you like it you can go for the original texts.” "Ken has given me other important pieces of personal advice such as the time he cautioned me in my tendencies to look superficially at lots of spiritual paths and not choose one. He advised me to develop an in-depth practice. He quoted an Asian proverb, “Chase many rabbits, catch none.” "A spiritual art must transform the artist and the viewer. In order for art to be transformative, it has to undo you. " "They must reach beyond the present limitations of their bodymind or ego to a higher level of consciousness and being. One could look at the process as “variations on a scream.” There is a violent painful birth to much great art. The artist has labor pains. It is the worst and the best. For the art to be spiritual, the artist has to be a better person after finishing the work than when they began it." "Conventional art is an expression of the self or world as it is now. Transcendental Art expresses something that you are not yet but that you can become…" "... So artists have to ask themselves, “Is my art just a way of affirming my mediocre whiney-ass self, or am I up to the challenge of spiritual transformation, reaching for the higher self and a deeper art?” A list of Ken Wilber’s Art writings on Art: 1. In the Eye of the Artist – Art and the Perennial Philosophy 1989 Sacred Mirrors -The Visionary Art of Alex Grey and the second edition of Eye To Eye. “Bad Art Copies, Good Art Creates, Great Art Transcends.” 2. Various passages from Sex, Ecology, Spirituality 1995 and A Brief History of Everything 1996 3. How Shall We See Art? – What and Where is Art? 1996 3 a. Integral Art and Literary Theory – Part I & Part II 4. Levels Of Art 1997 5. To See A World – Art and the I of the Beholder 1997 6. Foreword to Alex Grey's book, The Mission of Art 1998