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After many years of soaking in this spirituality stuff and what Leo and others teach in general, something is bubbling away beneath the surface. I'll spell it out, it's my unease at nihilism and talk of the void and nothingness and getting rid of the ego. I'll call it zeroism the sake of lumping it altogether. I understand at a tacit level what all this zeroism is about. Quickly: being attached to a something creates suffering, and a something is pure illusion or more accurately it is not at the root of reality. Firstly, suffering is the human condition, there is suffering and all the things associated with it at all levels, great and small, simple and complex. Pushing past suffering is one of the greatest means for actualising yourself. Secondly, there appears to be more to reality than meets the eye, the immediate sensation of a material world with objects and people is not to be trusted - it is a house of cards which can be toppled over and it should be toppled over - so that you can truly be spiritually actualised - enlightened or awakened. Non-dual speak frankly bores me. For every person that says something is occuring, there is someone that says nothing is occuring. I've even argued myself for nothing going on, using logical thought. It's like eating strawberry ice cream and then someone saying "you're wrong there is no strawberry ice cream, there's nothing there". This is just rubbish. I can't vouch for the experiences of others, because I'm not them (yes I am a separate sentient human being), but strawberry ice cream exists. If I go to my local shop and buy it, I can experience it any time I want. And that's my point. Consciousness or whatever this is exists in all its glory, it is here, right here, right now. To deny that existence or argue against it or to say it's anything different to what it is, is utter delusion. There is meaning to reality, there is something, there is movement and colour, there is ice cream - because reality is all of it, it's allowable, it's not illusion, it's not maya, it's not nothingness or whatever. I exist, because I experience myself existing. Stuff is happening because I experience it (I can feel you all cringing now). I can accept that reality is just experiencing itself and that an "I" is unnecessary, but the fact remains that there is an "I" right here at this moment. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of delusion and ignorance but this is to all to do with the content of reality. However, reality itself is not delusion, illusion, nothingness, or anything else. Reality is exactly as it presents itself right now. If reality presents itself differently in ten minutes' time then that is reality. It's really very very simple. Why all the unnecessary misdirection of zeroism? Trying to overcome suffering is really about utility and actualisation. Actualisation is 99% about the content of reality and deconstructing everything, so it is all utility. You're actualising because it serves you. You are the one that wants to get enlightened, telling yourself otherwise is silly. After a while it should become blatantly obvious that everything is constructed in some way: it's made of parts, it has rules, it fits within a greater whole. Most of human drama stems from the inability to extricate itself from its constructions. But the fact remains that constructions are reality, they're not illusions, they are simply things that can be shown to be arbitrary - that being the greatest single realisation to have. Yes the content of reality is completely arbitrary, but it still exists, I'm here to witness it. You get me?

It´s interesting, how everyone is looking for something special for them before getting on the path of awakening. Some look for love, the others for happyness. For Leo it´s truth. Truth. What is truth? Something static and unchangeable. Never was ineterested in such a thing in a constantly changing world. Well you can apply truth on something like Nothingness/ Everything. Bit what is a point of it, if you can never embrace the truth? I knew this since I has been a kid and learned a concept of 0 and infinity. Like every child I wanted to be a math master by knowing the highest possible number. I can remember my mum not being able to answer this simple question. You can always add one and get the next number, even if there is no name for it , you can always add one. This is the moment when I lost interest in truth, philosophy, math.. Doesn´t make any sense - you can always add one.. I was also skeptical about love. What I knew from the books - love is blind. I wasn´t blind. Well I learned to understand the concept of love better when it got physical. It started to make sense for me. What I was always looking for was freedom. But I found love or let´s say a special kind of love. I met someone.. let´s say.. not the same understanding or development level, but.. the word "perception" would probably fit. With the same perception. I really had long dialogues with him sitting in his kitchen and drinking tea and me being elsewhere. Not sure if we were really speaking in astral or I sensed his nature so good that I knew all his responces. But anyways during our live meeting he repeated sometimes the whole passages of that conversations. It drove me crazy. Never experienced something like that - thi skind of closeness. I thought that it is it. The miracle of love. Fuck! He was my mirror but not of my chocolaty side. And then I met someone with whom I also shared a perception in the same miraculeous way but he was a mirror of my better side. I know, it´s a very simplified interpretation, but I have no other explanation at the moment. And you think you can experience something like that once in 10 lifes if at all, and then you have this shit just one after another. The other thing that I found was truth, or rather... lies. and illusions. Which I started to see more clearly. Not that I didn´t see them before. Just... the universe, in which you can always add one, needs to be filled with some shit, shouldn´t it? But what I started to see was, that it shouldn´t be necessarily filled with shit.. It is even stupid and absurd what we are doing.

Muted, distant, unrecognizable sounds... The city, the people, the kitchen, the bathroom Places I managed to recognize after several days But not by smell I can't smell anything It feels like I'm not breathing My sense of taste also ruthlessly vanished somewhere The last thing I had in my mouth left a metallic aftertaste But it was ages ago I see nothing Gravity is nonexistent Where the hell am I? And how did it happen? Nothingness Why can't I remember who I am, what I am? After a minute I realize I don't remember anything What was yesterday, what's today I'm suspended in a smudgy, fuzzy, vague... I'm swallowed, my world shrinked And keeps getting smaller like it's trying to devour me Then again I have a strong sense of assured safety

This is just my experience, I have felt like there are levels to the realization for no self... for myself, as ironic as that sounds. But if you have a full blown awakening to it, this is what it might feel like for you. I've personally not seen a definitive answer for this here, and it's something I was so curious about before awakening to it. What I will say, is there is no rush, the universe will guide you along your journey and when the time is right this radical truth and insight will reveal itself to you. For me personally, it was when I upped the dose (170ug), my ego completely died. You, your consciousness or what you imagined you were as a human will merge so much with external reality, that you literally fully awaken and understand that you are the external. It's as if for what will seem like the first time you look around the room and fully understand instantaneously you are looking at yourself. The ego will feel so entirely dead, for me it felt like wind was blowing through me but there was no one there. I literally became the breeze through the cracks in the window. The wave of the infinite ocean of Love. You will literally die, literally! And will be the most amazing experience of your entire life because you are still conscious and Aware. The thing that shocked me the most, was the divinity of how every moment that lead up to this moment was intelligently designed. Every single moment that lead up to that exact moment was all meant to be. Pure perfection. At the same 'time' when you realize you have no self, you ask yourself what am I? Then the true Self which is what you have always been. Infinity, nothingness, GOD reveals itself to you. This is how it happened for me. 170ug was alot for me and personally the most I have done. And I built upto this, so I would suggest starting low(half a tab). Wow. What a ride life has been. Leo, Nahm, Inlightened1 and everyone else who has guided me on this journey indirectly or directly. thank you all. You were all definitely a catalyst to enlightenment. Namaste and love to you all.

there is an individual, as a pattern, limited construction, temporary limitation of reality to perceive itself. this individual can perceived himself as unreal in the sense of seeing the limitation of all his experience, like a feeling of unreality, and therefore seeks the real, transcendence. the substance of this individual is the substance of reality, only that the individual has a temporary form and reality is formless. with practices and or psychedelics the individual can momentarily dissolve his form / limitation and become the whole. the whole is not an individual, but it is one, even being nothing. when this happens the individual realizes what it is. it is the whole reality, so the nothingness being. bottomless, so infinite. shapeless but with an unmistakably familiar quality, substance, identity: love. but the individual also exists as an individual, a very specific pattern that the totality creates in order to become limited and perceive (for example, especulating). it is unreal in terms of its projections, its idea of itself before to understand what is him, but it is real as a limited entity, a set of brackets in nothingness that creates a specific shape. So you could call it illusion since the absolute point of view, like only a shape, but since your point of view you are absolutely real

Get on it then, chop chop Notice that you are still creating a subtle duality between nothingness and somethingness, formlessness and form. Realize something is nothing. Notice there is no edge between something and nothing.

@Scholar Yes, excellent! And also one more thing: the contents of the visual field are all Nothingness too, such that there is no outside or inside.

Right now, simply try to find the edge to your visual field. In your peripheral, try to find where the colors and shapes truly come to an end. Try to actually really do this before you continue reading. You will have noticed that actually, there is no such thing as an edge to your visual perception. Because what an edge is, is actually two things contrasting each other. Human minds have a tendency to view the world through such edges and limitations, even their own visual field they probably thought for their entire life to have an edge to it, a limit to itself. Yet, where is this limit? People ask themselves, what is at the edge of the universe? This presupposes the nature of the universe to be that of limitation. And for limitation, what is required is contrast. An edge can only exist if there is something contrasting that edge. The very nature of an edge and limitation is two things opposing each other. Ask yourself, where is the limitation in that? You say when you are on one side, that this line is where things end, yet when you cross it, you have just found yourself on a different ground. I can tell you with certainty, that if you find what is the "edge" of your visual perception, you will come to know what is the "edge" of the universe. Again, sit down and truly focus on this right now and come back reading when you have made a great effort. Reality does not work through limitation, reality is nestled in nothingness. The edge of your visual field bleeds into true nothingness. It is coming from nothingness, and it is dissolving into nothingness. True nothingness has no edge. It is no thingness, and it is present right here, at the "edge" of your visual field. The mind views reality as a contrast between limitation and infinitude, but yet reality clearly works in a paradoxial and arational manner. See, your visual perception is not infinite, yet it is not limited either. How can this be? It can be because reality is not that which is possible, but that which is impossible. Study any aspect of your own existence, any one of it, and you will come to realize this undeniable truth. In it's own way, your visual perception is self-contained. It is not like a division of two things, but it is it's own complete circle. There is no visual perception and then the "beyond visual perception". Your visual perception is as grand as the entirety of this universe, you simply are not paying attention to that. The beyond is the Nothingness, and that is what self-containment is. It is Nothingness. This is the most obvious thing, yet our minds work day in day out to blind itself from this truth. It is so transparent and undeniable, that the ability to look past this actuality itself is a miracle, a miracle equally as impossible as anything else in existence. The Edge itself is Nothingness, which means that it is no Edge at all. Sense the presence of the Nothingness all around you, in which all of substance is nestled in and of which it is made of. Look with sober clarity at existence. If you are not grounded in clear seeing, this path will create nothing but delusion for you.

There is always something. Emptiness is a state of fullness. Nothingness is a state of being nothing in a wast space of omni presence. Soo you could say, that the emptiness is full of nothingness. Like the air, or gravitation, it is there, but not noticeable. however it is not a constant state, one fluctuate, and that is the baeuty of enlightenment, to always be in a dynamic state.

Everything Leo speaks in this video in regards to awakening and god i have personally encountered, the difference is I don't call it God or Love or Consciousness. And I stopped giving them importances. Awakening is the most extraordinary thing one can imagine yes it is absolutely mind blowing, so infinite that there is no more mind. No more levels consciousness. No more form or emptiness. Even Awakenings and Realizations and even enlightenment itself are perceived to be the stuff of the dream. Of course all these "experiences" will make you shit in your pants, physically dying, being so blown away you're no longer human, and they are all encountered on the Path. But eventually they are all absorbed and transcended. The more ordinary the more Divine. The better way to put IT is that it transcends even the notion of extraordinary vs. ordinary. On no Self being a "minor" Realization: Temporary experience of no Self on meditation or psychedelic is not the same as Realization of no Self. Realization is deeper than a transcendental experience and both are "minor" sure. But the permanent dropping away of self/Self is on another dimension altogether. After self/Self drops away there is nothing but God and Infinity 24 7. There is a quantum difference between a self perceiving God in the center vs. permanently dropping away of any center or vintage point, and there's only Godhead Comprehending and Creating Itself ad Infinite. Now I can only speak from personal experience but before self/Self permanently drops, even the most mind blowing experiences still comes from a self. If you had a Realization or an "experience", then you find yourself shifting back to separated state then it's a temporary experience of a self and not a Realization, let along the permanent dropping away of center, which is beyond any teachings of contemporary Neo Advida or most mainstream or new age spirituality teachings. In fact it's beyond spirituality altogether. There's absolutely no reference point to the "experience" of permanently dropping away of self/Self. There is no words to describe it. It robs everything away from you, even Consciousness itself and all of your previous Realization. There is no perceiver, no agency, no center at all times. The enlightened self sitting on his throne of Nirvana is the final layer of the dream. edit: Buddha didn't teach Absolute Self. He taught no-self AND No-Self, which is the middle way, the merging and transcendence of Being/Non-Being, Absolute Infinity and Absolute Nothingness. But No Self IS True Self, so let's not get bogged down to terminologies. But I see way too many people on the Path getting stuck in the identification to an Absolute Self. Cessation is 0 consciousness. Complete black out. Which makes this Insight extremely valuable because non existence is in a totally different order than existence. No consciousness is in a totally different order than levels of consciousness. YET they're also exactly the same because 2 sides of the extremes eventually cancel each other out and become 0 when they meet as death is Love/life. But I'm still on the fence whether it's necessary for awakening. In my direct experience it's the ultimate no experience that truly truly re-wires the brain permanently. It takes 5 to 10 years of meditation to get your first cessation. After awakening you can get 10 cessations in 30 mins of sitting. (What I'm more interested in is permanent shifts. It doesn't matter how many awakenings one's had, but if moment to moment perception isn't permanently altered, say shifting from 720 to 1080 to 4K 360 and 8k 360 or the self dissolving from solidity to liquid to air, then there is no Realization). Enlightenment is not a state of consciousness. It's 0 if you want to put a number on the dial, which also makes it Infinite and in-quantifiable. All "levels of consciousness" belongs to the dream and are the by products of "peeling away of separation/conditions". Enlightenment is deeper than consciousness or even awareness. As krishnamurti said "The moment you are aware of Awareness, you are not aware of Awareness" It's deeper than total unity and Oneness. As Adyshanti said, you eventually "wake up out of Oneness". You could say it's the _______ prior to unity and all states of consciousness. Prior to and it's what manifest the dial on the awakening scale. Shinzen young describes the path as going from surface level consciousness to Source. And many people on the Path got diverted from going directly to Source to sidetracking themselves to the content/manifestation of Source mid path (although Source is Appearance. Content IS context. But this cannot be Realized unless one's abiding in Source as Source). But what happens AFTER Source is Realized? Sure one can continue to explore. There is no end to the Infinitude of Reality. But as I've emphasized many times, there is a event horizon you cross before and after enlightenment. Ramana Maharishi and many other sages on that level all point to the fact that enlightenment itself has no levels. You're either there or you're not. And it's not a process happening anywhere. The question of whether or not it's a brain/mind State becomes completely irrelevant.

@Someone here What makes you so sure that time exists? I know you've heard this over and over so I'm not going to repeat any of it here. Past, present, future - all these exist in your mind and nowhere else. Yes, even present. Even "Now" is a thought. And me talking about infinity and nothingness, all that is also just thought. "What is?" Wrong question, it can't be answered. Think of it, with what would you answer it? Obviously just with more of what is. It's a bottomless, infinite mystery. So my question to you is; What makes you think that there is such a thing as "now"? What if it's something like "up" or "left" or "tall" ? An abstraction? A projection? A thought? Maybe "it" is just that and nothing more?

There is a difference between; "Why is there something instead of nothing ?" and "Why is there not nothing ?" The latter being the more important one. The fact something exists is irrelevant because it does. What's more intriguing is why nothingness isn't the standard. All else being equal, it is more efficient and logical for nothing (time, space, matter, energy) to exist.

@Holygrail Oh but the realization of nothingness can go deeper. You've just begun to get in touch with Emptiness and so far, your understanding is almost exclusively on an intellectual level. You still believe in "somethingness" if you're honest with yourself. Only because you have seen through a belief intellectually, doesn't mean that you feel it. But you can. You can feel yourself as nothing and the world as nothing, or both. You will lose your sense of weight. The world may appear like a dream or a hologram. It can be a bit frightening at first, but even that is only because you still think the world is supposed to be something?

thats what i thought, though i believe there's a deeper experience to be had on nothingness than my realization

@wildflower LOL metaphysical claim, his nothingness is no further then GOD. buddhism which is famous for atheism speaks about GOD and claim nothingness is beyond, dont you see the irony in that? It is atheistic and materialism in a religion form. He has no clue at all about GOD obviously. A life denying teaching is what that is.

Everything I talk about is Nothingness.

Fair. The only person in the world for me that speaks different then this, that seems to encapsulate these other teachings but transcends them is Ajahn Brahm, he talks more about nothingness then anyone else. He also is probably one of the meditation masters in the world. I wonder what your thoughts are on the way he describes it, I've timestamped it, it takes 3 minutes, he talks about different states of conciousness, ifninite conciousness, but in the end there is more beyond, I recommend the whole video:

You cant capture infinity and Reality and say oh it is this way but no that way, in the beginning NETI NETI is a great thing but one should see that even if Frank and Leo talks about differences, it is still A MIND who is doing the interpreting, like Frank, he is doing metaphysical claims all the time and he pisses at Leo for doing it too, lol it is unavoidable.. Infinity includes and transcends it all, it is impermanent/permanent, it is everything and nothing. In his stages with GOD / NOTHINGNESS / CESSATIONS etc, that is pure MIND who puts its "experiences" on top of others, making a claim that this "experience" is more important then another, YEAH for him perhaps, likewise LEO has another, i dont doubt the wokeness of any of them, they certainly are.

Yes, well I have an other example. I had never meditated or anything and had a full blown awakening, while eating. Eternity, nothingness, no self, no external world, this is a dream. I needed 6 months to "make sense of it" and what happened was I ended up saying. It was a change in perception that made me FEEL LIKE I was in a dream and FELT LIKE it was more true than anything else. The external world SEEMED like it didn't exist and SEEMED like a dream. Basically I integrated a real intense awakening into the materialist paradigm. Fortunately now I know that materiakism is just ONE paradigm, and not the best one for changes in perception/awakenings. Intuitive knowledge doesn't need paradigms I guess.

@Thought Art As far as most mindfullness teachers explain it: it's about the awareness of the absolute 0. Its recognising where everything comes from and where everything goes to. Shinzen Young said: It happens to everyone thousands of times a day, the difference is being conscious of it happening or not. Cessation, dissolution (bhanga) nothingness. It's all about that "0". I don't believe that what you mentioned (beliefs intentions etc.) play a role at all, because it happens through every culture with some people never having heard of spiritual practice, and it's a natural process. Apparently there's a correlation between no-self and age. That's why old people tend to enjoy having children in their presence because, post-egoic and pre-egoic stages are more about love than egoic people who are "serious" and "worried" all the time. Sorry I went on a tangent.

You cannot experience Absolute Nothingness! Your Ego mind can imagine Nothingness from its microscopic limited bubble of reality, but the higher Mind that you are, is consciously creating you from moment to moment, it maintains all your thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs, and emotions. It maintains all the Atoms, molecules, organs, and electromagnetic field of energy that you are. You exist beyond your limited Ego awareness. Consciousness = Thoughts in Action! Thoughts = Energy in Action Energy can never be destroyed. Once a Thought, Idea, image, belief, and Emotion is manifested, it will continue to exist in Absolute Consciousness for eternity. Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas, and beliefs!

"spacious" is a better word, as opposed to the forms appearing within it. See for yourself; "nothingness" isn't as bad as it sounds.

@Goldzilla yeah absolutely. Nothingness is not what you think nothingness is in actuality. This is nothingness, the question is just how conscious are you of what nothing is.

@Strangeloop Hahaha, I like how you shifted gears real quick from "yeah, a bunch of demons entered of demons" to "focus on material development". It's not meditation in particular which lead me to this today, or what lead me to my experience 2 days ago of focus on nothingness. What it was, was that a conversation with a friend of mine where I talked about my feelings revealed something to me I had been ignoring/denying to trying to forget. At the age of about 13, I had some crisis of faith about Islam ( the religion I grew up). I went on a rollercoaster of belief and disbelief. I would stare at the ceiling at night and be in terror, contemplating the prospect of living forever in Heaven. When in belief, I felt very mystically high and in bliss. But I eventually realised Islam was false, logically and morally, and went into a depression about it. That crisis of faith and meaning, it's remained unresolved. "It left a massive hole in me ontologically". One year ago I had a random seeing of Absolute Nothingness, but I ran away. My entire life, I've spent it distracting myself from this "hole". I've spent it distracting myself from this nihilism and nothingness, despite those things being so palpable in experience. That I exist at all! That is insanity inducing enough! Stark, raving mad. Don't you feel it too? But I denied and ignored that feeling, trying to make myself forget. The only bigger insanity than that though is the pretending I'm not insane. And so, it was the realisation that I run away from myself that induced all this, not meditation. A psychological breakdown, I have no sanity left, although I can give the appearance of it to others somehow. I think it's maybe because I simply don't wish to talk to anyone, that would be self defeating if I'm trying to reclaim all authority to myself and be an adult, and stop projecting. I'm on a journey from absolutely nowhere to no thing; life is pointless. Urinate on everything sacred. Enlightenment is a myth, everything is false. Even if it's futile, I'll keep going, because it's the same either way

There is no way of no thoughts in the present moment. You are alive because you continue thinking, even tho you want to experience nothingness that is only another focus on other things than thought. But believe me, you can't stop the thoughts processes without losing your life. You can only switch focus on breath per example and let thoughts come and go. The total dissapearance of thought is a blatant lie of society.