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Electromagnetism looked like nothingness then the concept of ether failed to explain it but it's characterised by 1 feature: movement. So maybe other forms of void happen to be an echo of some other type of movement, go figure. At least we can say the universe ain't frozen static at the moment, anyway nobody will live long enough to find out the rest i bet!

It's impossible to imagine nothingness so I imagine a giant blank piece of paper or blackness or whatever. When spacetime is imagined and becomes manifest in this void, has it all happened beginning to end already? Or does the construct of time mean that even if you were in that void, you would not know the totality of events?

Which me is still conscious? I don't believe the self-me experiences a subjective conscious viewpoint when the self-mind is gone. I only think nothingness is conscious BECAUSE it's the only way by which "somethings" can have an actuality. I don't think it has anything to do with the self-mind at all. I don't think the self-mind has any consciousness whatsoever. I think it's a "thing" like all other things. I envision a blank piece of paper which is nothingness. Draw some shape on it which represents perception. And then the void is conscious of that perception/form. Now erase the shape. The paper goes nowhere but the shape just vanishes. That's what I see happening to the self-mind... Consciousness continues because if it didn't there wouldn't be anything which is impossible. But I don't think consciousness is something the self mind owns but vice versa I think the self-mind is like a temporary puppet plaything. Actual nonduality can never be experienced, because you need a subject and object relation for experience to take place. Probably when Leo is saying cessation is imaginary, he means for You capitalized. The self mind stops experiencing space and time, and you simply teleport from one time to another, if in a coma perhaps quite a while later. That is the self-mind cutting out leaving only You. Little-you is gone in that period of time.

Vibration Cultivating empathy and compassion Raise your psychic energy Increase levels of Positivity, happiness, Liberation, nothingness and relaxation. Frequency To increase intellectual awareness Mastery

@Leo Gura My perspective doesn't matter. I listen to lots of teachers with an open mind. I don't know who's right or wrong, but neither can you. Some things/pointers/maps/methods help and some don't. I'm also not saying you are wrong and he is right. What I am saying is from his perspective you are in a prison of some state of realisation, which kind of sounds like you are... (in terms of permanent classical non-returning enlightenment). Most teachers say that. And you dismiss them, because you're not doing what they did/do and you realised something you think they didn't. You actually use Jhana terminology. Infinite Consciousness, Infinite nothingness. So you're kind of talking about the jhanas if you're not only using those words to mean something else. You cannot expect him to be humble about his "achievement" and dismiss him as a fool if you get that it's not useful to be unnecessary humble about it. Otherwise you wouldn't claim to have achieved levels of consciousness higher than buddha or Jesus. I can turn the question around and say: How do you know you're not in the God-trap? How do you know that this incredible God realisation, fascination and attachment is what keeps you from full-blown permanent no-self, with or without being God-realised. I assume you probably spoke to a few mainstream teachers: What came out of those discussions, what did they tell you?

There is no step because it's the same. Perspective turns nothingness into some thingness.

Hello friends, this post is a sincere note of love to everyone on this forum, and to @Leo Gura . As I type this, I am aware that all of you are me, and I am all of you, so I hope this brings some peace and resolution to your spiritual journey. "I" experienced a rapid spiritual expansion over the last two years, with a burning desire for truth. Extensive experimentation with my visual field and direct experience, BUFO, hardcore self-inquiry, and observation of the illusion of time, they all broke "my" mind and sent me down the rabbit hole. The dark knight of the soul. Complete existential horror. A few times, my entire visual and auditory field collapsed and my senses were gone. I was just nothingness. Complete void. Please try to understand what I am trying to communicate here. I cannot explain with words what it is like to have your 5 senses collapse and to become infinite, boundless consciousness. This was like getting on the rollercoaster car and then the ride starts and you realize you want to get off but its too late. You're in for the ride. I pressed on. God realization was achieved recently, which meant realizing there was no one to achieve it in the first place. Complete nothingness, transparent, dimensionless, timeless, eternal consciousness. It brings tears of happiness to my eyes to realize that consciousness/love/god/goodness are identical. You, right now, are it. You are the star of your universe. You are the singular subject. The beauty of the entire universe is laid bare for your eternal pleasure. It cannot be anything but beautiful, infinite, and all loving. The mere fact that you can read these words means you are God. There is no possible way for you to exist, except to exist in the absolute. And the absolute has no opposite. Every single one of you reading this, I cannot describe the ineffable, but you are more magnificent, endlessly beautiful, powerful, and boundless than you think. You are a complete set of infinite love, infinite intelligence, infinite omniscience, infinite understanding, infinite expansion. You are beauty itself. "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present, and by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future." You may hate your current form/life/incarnation, but that is not the problem. The problem is that you have yet to realize that you aren't just the body in the world, but that you are the entire world. Your consciousness contains the entire cosmos inside of it. The cosmos itself is something being willed into existence by you. Everything in your 5 senses is absolute, and singular. You are as real as real gets. So, if I can leave you with something... I know the road is hard and treacherous. I know the pain. I know the desperation. I know the existential horror. Align your will to the will of love. Align your acts with acts of love. Align your intelligence with that of love. You will encounter what is called Divine Providence. It is a state of flow where everything starts to click into place. It is like developing a mental connection with God, after realizing God is you. It is like an umbilical chord that magically appears. Because your will is all there is. Will itself is you. That is how you exist. An absolute, empty mirror, creating colors, sounds, feelings, thoughts inside itself. A complete miracle. You are that miracle. And never forget that.

Nothingness = Consciousness. You can be formless Nothingness, without any imaginations (your room, body sensations, thoughts...) and still be conscious. Cessation or unconsciousness doesn't exist, since Reality is Consciousness.

@RMQualtrough Interesting perspective. I always presumed that in the "beginning" there was just the formless void/nothingness/God and then it became/created this dualistic dream that is being currently experienced through this human form. Are you saying that this state is eternal because non-duality can't be experienced?

The thing is that there isn't a you that loses the illusion of duality and then comes back to it... That illusion persists non-stop (it can't ever stop) and you the self-mind vanishes. Even from moment to moment it's not like there's a constant you. Just capital You which is just the awareness without attribute. The continuous self-you experience is due to memory and other functions of the human mind. But the self-you object is always morphing. There's not really a self-you entity that continues unchanged from moment to moment. Even on bufo trips like Leo does, there is still duality, and the experience is still happening to Leo (hence we don't all trip out every time he smokes it, and only he has the memory of that experience). If Leo experienced nonduality that would be cessation AKA nothingness. It can't be experienced at all. Only duality can be experienced and that's WHY duality is permanent or there'd just be nothingness which is impossible.

I understand the part with retracting back to formlessness/nothingness but I guess that state isn't permanent, illusion of duality is again restored. Does that happen with a completly new thought or the old one is reused?

No because you are just an object like a thought. There's not actually any person at all. Like a thought, the human you takes form then retracts back into formlessness or nothingness (AKA "consciousness"). It's You which is eternal, and the illusion of duality. There's no point to this except for reasons pertaining to the self you.

It's because there's you and You. The little you being an object or thing like any other. You capitalized being conscious nothingness which is unified indivisible and one. This is exceptionally confusing. Teachings and awakenings and meditation and drugs are games, no different from playing GTA or some shit. Do it if you ENJOY it like how you would with anything else. Because ultimately it is about bringing little you into alignment with You, but it's impossible because little you is an object and to fully integrate into You, the self you vanishes completely. So there's nobody left to experience the benefits of your work if you ever did achieve it, and if you don't you are still in the appearance of duality regardless. And actually the appearance of duality is utterly inescapable because nothing and something can't be seperated... So even when little you "wins the game" and disappears, You continue to experience duality eternally... Capital You does not give a FUCK about your pain or spiritual growth or desires, it just observes them always impartial.

What is witnessed is "real" what is told is "imaginary" though in a grand sense it all is imaginary. When someone tells you a story of their life what you are imagining is a person is telling you a story about their past. You can compare it to a movie, a dream, or/and a video game. Let's say you meet a NPC in a game and they tell you a story about how they were a child in a cutscene. The story they tell you isn't real because it was never programed into the game to play out that moment. So the only thing that is happening is "you" are listening to a story. Not for the sake of them to tell it, not for the sake of you to listen to it, but rather for the sake of "isness". For it "is" what is happening, but it's happening to no one. This means there is no you or them as players. So you will never be them in the sense you will one day "play" them for their POV. But rather you as them is already happening in the totality of the whole "bubble" of awareness or reality that is currently playing out. Reality/God/You decided to play out a scene where you perceive other people. But, this is awareness in a whole or else you would not be able to "see" them at all. Again, awareness is the whole so there is no reason why at one period of time awareness would manifest through their specific eyes since awareness just isn't the eyes but the whole scene. Even though all things are imaginary the closest thing to real is what's being presented in this current scene, we call it the "now". There is nothing more/less than the now or this current moment. There is no unveiling of God/Infinite for all things are already God/Infinite. Due to the paradox that the "now" is both Nothingness and Infinity it has the ability to take any form. That form can be perceived as finite or that form can be perceived as Infinite, but regardless of perception it's always the latter. Regardless of the illusionary nature of reality we should still treat it as if other's past is real. It's for our own sake to be an actor within this narrative, though we should be aware also that it's just a story we are telling ourselves. But, in the grand scheme of things there is no other, there is no you, you will never be other, and others will never be you. Not in the "future" tense rather because they/you are you/they right now.

@JuliusCaesar Well, dreams are way less vivid then real life. @JuliusCaesarI think I see what you're saying. We just have assume that the colour we see are the same. The light spectrum of physics has certainly worked however, because we all can only see the same colours within a certain wavelength range. And not the ones from outside that wavelength range, which we would no know about without physics. @JuliusCaesar Yeah, I get a little lost here. Thus just sounds like semantics to me. All I am aware of is that there is matter and energy and also could be dark matter, dark energy. Could the nothingness that you are speaking about be dark matter or energy? Because according to science, dark matter/energy (I'm not sure which one), has no features but seems to interact with matter in the universe. @Danioover9000 I'm a little confused with the first part of what you. But I'm guessing you're saying that addressing problems with someones worldview to those who have the same worldview ( as well as the person who is sharing that worldview) is just gonna lead to biased answers to the problems and criticisms of the worldview being asked about? I think I'm doing that subconsciously/unconsciously or consciously and just want the world view to be true or something so I go ask the person who is spreading it. Kinda like a religious follower going to ask people in that religion about criticisms of that religions and if they are true or not. I guess that leads me down the wrong road, because one thing I remember Leo saying (countless times) is what he is saying is not true unless you validate it for yourself. And so, I think my biggest barrier to validating this worldview is thinking that me contemplating something for example won't lead me anywhere because even if I did contemplate something for a while, how the f*ck would I know if what I'm doing is correctly being done (watched his contemplation video, and it still seems like such abstract thing that is hard to do properly)? It just seems like such an abstract thing that does not have anything to do with material world or would not have anything to do with the material world, because I'm it's just me thinking/pondering ideas, nothing concrete if you will. This applies for all the techniques that he has spoken about. How did you think about the video btw? I will admit it is a little confusing to take university science course while listening to videos about Leo deconstructing science. (obviously not at the same time). Leo: "All of science is horsesh*t" Prof: "And we know that this atom has 2 electrons in it because we have been able to measure it with this instrument..." Yeah, I don't have a life purpose lol, I'm just interesting in Biology so decided to go to Uni for it, and am hoping that I will stay interested in it so that it will make it simple enough for me get a career in some field within biology. I also don't have any of the material stuff going, if you consider material stuff to be my own independence as a human being (living without parents). And I don't have very many skills, if you consider that social skills, and marketable skills. In general I don't have any long term vision, if that's what you're saying, thus don't have a super clear path of where I'm going, but I have some form of direction. I guess I'm Just using or wasting (whatever word is more suitable) some of my time on a forum trying to convince people that there own worldview is wrong (when I have not deeply pondered it myself), and I am looking for other people not in the worldview to validate that worldview and say if is correct/logical/or scientific, because I don't want to be tricked into adopting one that is false. Because as I've learned, if you want to know if something is true or not, you test it in the world world with repeatability in a high quality study. Thank you, I hope that makes sense.

awakening is restoring the ability to see through the illusion of existence. "outside" world doesn't change. But the way you see it does. First, you recognize you true essence. You are not the body. You are this thing inside, this energy, this consciousness. Next you look around you and you start seeing the true substance of " external existence". Things, no matter how different they are, all of them are made exactly from the same material. This material can be seen in different ways. You can see it as nothingness, as consciousness ,as love and as infinity. It feels like the picture below. You succeeded in seeing the code of existence. The coding is universal and it gives rise to infinite possibilities. however the coding is not made out of these green symbols. It is made out of nothing.

You have a problem with self acceptance. A part of you is judging you harshly. That's why all the negativity and contempt. Let it go. Surrender to nothingness. Realize that all judgement is only for survival. In the absolute sense everything. What you consider as weakness can be strength if you recontextualize it Love yourself more everyday. What you need is not contempt but compassion. Give yourself some.

All of that is bullshit. I've gone beyond all that. Doubt me all you want. it makes no difference. You guys are so far from God-realization it's sad. It is completely obvious to me who knows what God is and who does not. I can listen to be teacher talk about God for 10 seconds and immediately I know he is not God-realized. What you have to understand is that God is even dreaming up samadhi, cessation, enlightenment, no-self, nonduality, "naty state", nothingness, psychedelics, past awakenings, gurus, RASA, and whatever other spiritual bullshit you are imagining. It's all spiritual bullshit invented by you to keep yourself asleep. Only God is real and you are not conscious of what God is. How can I possibly know all this? Because, I'm God. You'll only understand once you realize that I'm you and that Frank Yang is some clown you've imagined Basically, no one on this forum is fully God-realized. So watch out who you believe. There are many bullshitters here talking about things they don't fully comprehend.

Everything is Imagination. But don't forget: Imagination = Nothingness = Consciousness = Love = God = Oneness = Infinity

Knowing yourself well is the definition of ego jerking lol. It is a trap within itself that ultimately collapses into a paradox infinity/Nothingness. The ego literally wants wishes to validates it's existence by investigation and forming opinions on a perceived belief of what it is. I can't think of anything else that is closer to ego masturbation, though this is not a flaw but rather a design choice. To believe there is only innocence within empathy isn't idealistic. For empathy itself is a double edged blade. The overly empathetic not only suffer needlessly themselves, but their inability to regulate their own self structure without it being tethered to "other" causes the suffering of other. The same, but slightly different, happens with those that lack empathy. I personally believe the usage of the word empathy is counter productive. It was once a label I strongly attached to, but eventually I saw the devilry with the label and what comes with it.

@GreenWoods yeah i agree.in yogic tradition emptiness or enlightened state = god and budhist tradition it is nothingness

Maybe he uses different words to say that God is Nothingness. That realization is not higher than God Realization though.

This night during my dream I put some cyanoacrylate glue on my tongue and tripprd really hard for a few seconds ;D ;D I have experiences like yours quite often now - however I did 5 MeO DMT few times. I can reach similar states with yoga, breathwork or when I'm about to sleep. They have short duration, usually they last up to few seconds. It feels like presence / nothingness / energy without thoughts and any identity - I'm forgetting that I have ever been a human. I know it's super scary at first, but I recommend you to try not to resist anything and let the energy flow freely.

Well Christians and materialists face the same infinite regress where it leaves questions forever no matter how deep you go. Why is there a quark and not infinite nothingness? Replace quark with the God of the Bible and you see it's the same issue. Matter never being created btw, I think just applies to the laws inside the universe. Nothingness cannot ever be separated from somethingness, because only things can be finite and limited. If nothing exists, neither do limitations of any kind, so boom infinity.

So? I haven't yet seen or understood anything in any scientific study that has ever encroached upon the nature of what things fundamentally are... We just break things down smaller and smaller, atoms, quarks, and just keep digging deeper. With "things" there will never be a point where the very nature of the thing will be revealed by the thing. Eventually nothingness must be accepted.