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you mean empty or nothingness? why isn't there pure consciousness?, also what do you mean annihilation? I have some questions..

This is the conclusion of what your contemplation/intuition is leading you to IMO. Fruition (phala in Pali) is the fruit of all the meditator’s hard work, the first attainment of ultimate reality, emptiness, nirvana, nibbana, ultimate potential, or whatever extrapolative and relatively inaccurate name you wish to call something utterly non-sensate. In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, no background, no foreground, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. “Reality” stops cold and then reappears. https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-iv-insight/30-the-progress-of-insight/15-fruition/ Please also note that, like Fruition, there is no experience at all during NS. There is no time, no space, no something, no nothing, not anything at all. Just as a desktop computer shuts down totally when you press the power button, so too with anything to do with experience in NS. I have friends who have talked about something they got into where they could still feel time passing, and that is definitely not it. NS is like the ultimate rest for the mind, something far beyond even deep sleep, as even a few seconds in it leaves one with a massive feeling of having gone extremely deep in a way nothing else can match. https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-v-awakening/37-models-of-the-stages-of-awakening/the-cessation-of-perception-and-feeling-nirodha-samapatti/

The vanishing, etheric quality of each moment: right now thinking about the question What Do I Love The Most About Life? that vanishes into nothingness as it it thought about.

How the one does this? That's exactly what I did. Why do you think that would happen? Why do you think that nothingness exhausts thoughts?

I agree with your concept of transcendence there What Im talking about are the many people in the “enlightenment community”, who want to “transcend”, and do Away with emotions all together. The talking points and language can conflate You are also just as much a human as everything else, we are here to live not to transcend life. Theres a reason source broke out of formless nothingness to experience.

Emptiness refers to the content in the cup while nothingness refers to the true nature of ‘the cup’. But don’t try to bend the cup, that’s impossible. Simply allow it to empty.

I was given birth by a chicken that was orange and blue color, and that chicken was created in a laboratory that was working on creating new mutant beings by giving those chickens all sorts of chemicals and stuff. After laying the egg that was me, my mother just disappeared into nothingness and i was sold to a woman called Zehra, and she took care of this egg (by the way it was a blue egg, because they were creating the male eggs as blue and female eggs as link, a classic sexist thing really). After being in a glass box for three or four weeks, the egg hatched and there i was, and Zehra took care of me, as my new adoptive mother, from then onward. And i learned that my real mother actually was a chicken about two weeks ago, and first i was shocked and i did not believe, i said this is a joke and laughed it off. But then they showed me all the evidences (and they were very powerful evidences which i will not explain in detail now), and now I'm just convinced about that.

It's the same thing. From what I remember, 7th Jhana is about distinction between Nothingness and Somethingness. And in 8th you kinda go beyond this whole thing and find both of these qualities in each other, hence, your perception inverts itself and you break your head in paradox

There seem to be three types of experience of reality... 1. The mundane typical focus on object out there evolved into humans. 2. The bizarre and unusual peek into the mirror via something to see that consciousness is in fact literally nothingness. 3. And finally the collapse of the distinction. I found the second to actually be the most shocking, where there was still subject/object divide but I could know and be nothingness. To me it had more element of logical proof I could bring back than the collapse of distinction.

Emptiness is not a "thing," but rather a quality inherent in all phenomena. Emptiness means empty of self (Svabhava), or self-defining qualities. Nothingness is closer to what it sounds like—an absolute lack of sensory data. The 7th Jhana isn't full-on cessation, but it definitely is characterized by the exclusion of sensory objects in comparison to the lower states. So, in that sense, "emptiness" is really another way of expressing the nature of reality, while nothingness is an immediate description of perception.

You're awesome, thank you for this I guess I should also mention; that when this "shift" happened and I saw the void/nothingness and then I became it, and the "I"/"me" disappeared, everything that Leo, other gurus, spiritual pointers, why people are the way they are, etc ALL made absolute sense and it was the TRUTH. I even realized that the TRUTH is also a story. It's stories behind stories behind stories. I "remember" this event from my current point of view and man I wish I could go back there, even though I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm already there. It was incredibly trippy though. I remember opening my smartphone and looking at social media and almost laughing at everyone thinking they're that person--like truly believing they're a real human making pouty kissy faces and taking selfies lmao. I maybe laughed too hard because I'm still that selfie taking human LOL

Great thread. As a visual learner, this is incredibly helpful. And I’ve also realized and “seen” the nothingness behind my eyes and beyond the edges of perception. I actually didn’t even “see” it, I *became* it briefly and I realized I was the whole entire show. Unfortunately, the mind tried to grapple with this and by doing so I’m back to me me me me lol. Please provide more good pointers like this thread for us visual learners.

For me: Mushrooms opened my Heart. ? LSD alligned my Heart and my Universal Mind. ? = ? 5-MEO made me see that I am Infinite. ♾ And ultimately, everything has to be surrendered, even Consciousness, in the end. To become Infinite Nothingness, Forever…

True. You are actually experiencing nothingness right now, to a certain degree. And yes, you can perceive nothingness, as you have realized. The "nothing" behind you is actually being perceived, that is the only way you can know of it. Try to find the edge of your visual field, you can't. There is no edge. The edge is nothingness, and that nothingness is infinite and expands forever. There is simply a lack of sensation or "nothingness" at the edge. But the fact of the matter is, you are able to perceive this nothingness, and you use it to distinguish finite items in your reality like your lamp or table. It can be very hard to notice this nothingness in the finite domain, especially without a solid experience of pure nothingness or pure consciousness or turiya or whatever you wanna call it.

I took two tabs of LSD yesterday around noon. My intentions for the trip went as follows… 1. How can I be more loving? 2. Where am I biased? 3. How can I approach my relationship with my gf in as loving a way as possible. I began the trip in the bath while meditating. I was in there for roughly an hour, contemplating these questions. When the trip started to get heavy I then moved to the bed. I laid in bed for probably an hour going deep into my life. I felt as if I was auditing my life. I was running through my history with a fine tooth comb, looking for self bias. I found many. While I was in bed, I was playing with my physical positioning too. I was doing some GOATA groundwork and it felt fantastic. I felt very in tune with my body and the spinal engine. At around 2pm I wondered into the living room. I had a yoga mat in their felt called to it. I was pulled into a meditative pose where my shins were on the ground and I was folded over the top of my body, laying forehead into the ground with my arms extended backwards. I could hear a buzzing. A universal "hum" of sorts. I honed in on this hum and completely lost myself. I can't explain in words what happened next. I went into this infinite loop. I had 4 words playing in my head over and over and over again… "All difference is imaginary" These four words LITERALLY deconstructed my entire reality. I lied there, crying on the ground. Crying the name of my girlfriend. Crying the name of my dog. Crying the name of all those I cared about. I cried out loud "WHO THE FUCK IS LEO!!!" And then it hit me… I chuckled. I am Leo God Dammit. I had this intense physical discomfort disappear in a flash and I merged again with the all. Lost in the eternal hum of the universe. I would come to back to "reality" and then dissolve again into infinity. It was a strange back and forth. A loop like sensation that I can only describe as beautifully horrifying. I didn’t know what to do. There was nothing to do. Nothing to be. Nowhere to go. I had the urge to grab my phone and tell my friends about what I was experiencing but then I stopped. What's the point? I'd be telling myself I thought. What's the point of any of this? I'll never be able to go back to "normal" life. Not after experiencing this. I saw the image of the ouroboros, a snake eating it's own tail and I read the words. IT NEVER ENDS. And that was it. It never ended. But it did. After oscillating back and forth between the infinite and the finite for what seemed like an eternity, I was back into my normal life. I was back on solid ground. I looked at my dog and said to him, "you're my favorite imaginary". I sat there for hours, playing back those four words from earlier that ripped my world apart. "All difference is imaginary" I could still grasp what they were saying and repeated to myself out loud, What the fuck. What the fuck. What the fuck. WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPNED. The rest of my trip was spend sitting in meditation. Reflecting and spiraling. I looked out into the trees from my window and could see all of the universe. I saw how they spun in this beautiful dance playing out in my mind. I saw them spiral up infinitely and spiral down infinitely. I'd see fractal zooming videos before but this was my first time experiencing it first hand with my own eyes. Like all of reality was stored inside every other piece of reality. How in the fuck does Leo explain this stuff so articulately? It's maddening. It's so foreign. It's the most foreign thing I've ever experienced but it's right in front of my eyes at all time. I'm still chewing on this experience. Still breaking down what in the hell happened there. I can't see it any more though. The spirals, the fractal zooming, the infinite nature of everything. I read these words "all difference is imaginary" but it feels like I'm looking at an empty shell. What exactly were these words pointing to? The Truth slipped through my hands like an eel. This isn't my first time having an "awakening" experience like this but it's certainly the most clear. It's like every time I come into these deep psychedelic journies I get "better" at dissolving into nothingness. Hard to explain lol. But there's certainly more to be explored here. It wasn't all God/Infinite stuff though. I also got plenty of personal/practical downloads from the trip. I really need to work on three key areas of my life… 1. Emotional Mastery 2. Financial Freedom 3. Nonviolent Communication Anyways, until next time. Thanks for reading and safe travels.

Maybe that is the challenge. Like, I am not in the state right now. It's hard to contain and remember it. I've seen beyond.. I've realized "Between the click of the light and the start of the dream" The nothingness that is actually what this is. I am thinking about it right now... But, not when I was in these particular states. Who knows, I have more tripping to do. You would think I would "Know" if I found the truth. But, I don't really know. I don't know my own mind well enough. It seemed like it was true. But, I've been wrong before. I think I am still immature, thinking the Truth is something I can use. Ps... Loving the irony of this thread.

those are actually some pretty good images, especially the top one. From the light springs these infinite forms that are all made of and suspended in that one single substance. Or at least that was how the first one went. The deeper it gets the harder to describe it is. It feels like your coming home to something; there's a deja vu that I had the first time like I was returning to a place I forgot was even there, all the time inside me. A sense of "integrating" all things together into a sense of wholeness and completeness. There's a real sense of resolution to it, like all things lead to this and begin from this. You and the world (as the world) feel complete and together forever. Pure love and eternal peace will result. Beyond this stem even deeper levels of nothingness but I can't talk about it. It's divine imaginations go on and on forever whilst its nothingness that is its essence has eternal depths that no distinction can ever touch. The image below captures the mood of it for me as well, very inspiring no doubt but obviously not the real thing. No where close.

@Tyler Durden There is only Existence, only Nothing/Something. It can take on forms or remain formless. Outside of it doesn't exist. The moment you think, imagine or conceptualize a outside, you create that concept/imagination which exists within existence. There can never be anything outside of Existence. If you say the grass, butterfly and mask is Nothingness in form and behind the mask is the formless Nothingness, then you have a duality. NO dualities. There is only ONE. Existence. That which IS. If formless Nothingness or the formless Godhead exists outside of your bubble, then that isn't Oneness anymore. Oneness can't be destroyed. God is always One, God can't split Itself.

So there is nothing outside nothingness?

@Tyler Durden Noo! Behind the mask doesn't exist. The grass, face, butterfly... is the Nothingness.

Yeah, formless Infinite consciousness or nothingness if you like that term. So the 'you' being portrayed here as the mask or perceptions within consciousness is the 'you' which mistakes itself as human. When all along you were never the human self, you were the formless, Infinite self. Or you could say they are identical, the finite/ego self forgot it was the infinite formless self.

What is behind the mask? Nothingness?

"In nothingness all is within you; these flowers, these trees and this beautiful evening all are within you. In fact, then there is no without. Everything has sprung from within. And you cannot have any richer life than when everything is recognized as your within. What more can you want?" Osho

@SQAAD The pain of getting brutally tortured is just extreme pain followed by death. Maybe with gory images of the body, at worst. God is certainly not scared of that, which means that ultimately you aren't scared of it either, you only think you are. I understand, the fear arises, but that's all it is, it arises and it can just as easily disappear. I do agree with you though, all pain comes to an end and the ultimate nature of God is peace/nothingness.

Yes. It is called "turiya" in hindu spirituality, or "pure consciousness" in other spiritual circles. You can't imagine it though, you can only experience it. When you try to imagine it, you are already putting it in a dualistic container, so it does not work. The experience of nothingness has no duality or finitude present. It's like trying to imagine what having no eyesight is like. It's just absent, but there is still the experience of it being absent. You don't see any colors or shades, it's just completely gone. That's what nothingness is like, but your entire reality is gone along with your eyesight, and you just exist there. If you extend the lack of eyesight to every single one of your senses, that is what nothingness feels like. It's just a complete absence of everything, but at the same time you are perceiving that absence.