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@Shin end of experience is not an experience. At least it is not a phenomenal experience. Maybe a non phenomenal experience that can't be put into words becouse it's beyond all words and all qualities. Nothingness is the best word for it. Yeah we may have some difference is what we mean by nirvana. Nirvana in my language means the end of phenomenal experience or cessation could be called

Well there's a thing called cessation or nirvana or nirvikalpa samadhi where all manifestaion and and love and bliss dissapears. What is left is only nothingness. So obviously love and manifestaion is secondary. And nothingness is the fundamental source of all creation. At least it makes sense to me.

Do you think? I would say that nothing has always been, there is no beginning in being. if it is always, it is loved always. If it has loved always, it has always manifested . nothingness, love and manifestation are right now, which is the only moment that exists. There is not like: nothing at the beginning, then love and then manifestation. everything is now, and now is always

Manifestaion is secondary. It cames and goes. Nothingness doesn't come and go. It's the fundamental nature of who you are. Love is a secondary nature of who you are. Love is your fragrance. Nothingness is your true self.

@BenG i see. Fair enough. if you're new to nonduality it may take some time to grasp this that all manifestaion comes from nothing. Manifestaion can cease to exist. When everything dissapears. That which is left is called Nothingness/absolute/Shiva is the Source of all things. If it's not sinking in at the moment it's okey. I don't know if I can say something to make it more clear.

That which has no quality of it's own is called Nothing. It's consciouness, pure awareness, Shiva. The creation that comes out of nothingness is Love/Shakti/Manifestaion Both are ultimately one. There's no duality. All creation is ultimately nothing because it comes out of nothing. But you can't call the source Love. The source is Nothing, the manifestaion is Love. That's why consciouness/nothingness is more fundamental than love. And consciouness is what you are, and consciouness has no quality. So... do you see what I'm pointing at? ? Nothingness and love is sort of the same. But if you want to be 100% logical than your fundamental nature is nothing. Your manifest nature is Love. Manifestaion is a secondary thing. Nothingness is absolute. In cessation love and creation dissapears. Obviously love is not the absolute thing then.

That's a normal procedure of things. Yes. Everything gets recontextualized to be love when your eyes become pure enough to see it. Ego is distorting reality. Undistorted reality is love. That's why they sey truth is love. In that sense yes. But your true nature is nothingness beyond any quality. And you're also love becouse it comes out of you. Lol but nothingness is more fundamental.

Yeah we can point to anything and say it is love. All creation is love. But you need to be in a higher state of consciouness to see that. Everything is love but misinterpreted to be something else because of ego and low conciousness. That's fine. Everything is love is a good teaching. But nirvana is beyond it. Creation is love. Source of creation is nothingness. ShivaShakti bro.

Nice try. But no. Nothingness is not love. And Im not talking about human emotions. You should make more effort to understand what Im saying before replaying.

@Shin no bro. Leave love alone. Love is a quality. Consciouness is without any quality. Consciouness is your fundamental nature. Yet you're love also because love came out of nothingness. So we sort of agree. But the ultimate is nothingness. Love is secondary. Love is a manifestaion, not the source of manifestaion.

@Raptorsin7 Exacly. Shakti means energy. The whole cosmos is one energy and that energy is love. All creation is love. But all creation comes from nothingness/shiva. So conciousness is more fundamental than love but they go together also.

Yeah you're nothing/consciousness, but this is exactly why you're infinite love too. You can't separate those things as one being higher than the rest unless you're unconscious to one of them (because it's all one thing). God consciousness can be considered the "highest", cause usually you realize nothingness before, and many teachers stops there. It's higher cause it embodies more realizations by realizing what love truly is, and by extension what God truly is. Maybe the Buddha and Sadhguru say what they say in order to not mislead you (cause God and love are such loaded words), or you're misunderstanding what they say, or maybe (crazy I know) they don't know what they're talking about. It's not because someone is popular that he necessarily knows what he's talking about, he may just be popular. If you need to take authority from someone very popular, why not taking Jesus ? He's the most popular guru you'll ever hear about, and he doesn't seem to agree lol

Appareatly not. That which is beyond all qualities can't be called love. The only appropriate name would be Nothing. And it's a higher truth then god consciouness. God love consciouness is a thing. But it's not the ultimate. At least that's what sadhguru and buddha says. Plus it makes total sense to me. Love is not consciouness, love is a manifestaion of consciouness. Consciouness has no qualities. It's Nothing. Your true nature is nothing at all. Love is Shakti, consciouness is Shiva. ShivaShakti. Creation is shakti, the source of creation is Shiva. Creation is love, the source of creation is nothingness.

But Truth and God is the same exact thing. Love is nothingness/consciousness.

I don't think you would use the word god in cessation. You would use nirvana or nothingness. There can't be anything that transcends nothingness. Love still has a quality. So it's not the highest. That which is beyond all qualities. Shiva is the highest. That makes sense to me at least at the logical level. When man pursues experience, he becomes the body. When he pursues knowledge, he becomes the mind. When he pursues God, he becomes the Heart. When he pursues Truth, he becomes Nothing. ~ Mooji

Hello all, I've been processing this realization for the past 3 days and it's been a hell of a ride. To start off 3 days ago: There was a depression in the body and much sadness, I was contemplating the nature of thought further and began to break ground when I noticed that thought goes in circles yet can never actually be in the circle it creates if that makes sense. Suddenly It was realized that thought is infinity and its a strange loop with no center. No joke, I was borderline manic for 2 hours. Directly realizing infinity (sober btw) was so shocking and empowering I was like "this changes everything!". Infinity is like an orb of nothingness that cannot be touched by the world yet the world is actually what creates the orb of nothingness therefore emptiness and fullness are the same, and there is no orb or world. Infinity is not a quantitative thing, it's just infinite and complete and empty. For the past three days I've just been melting into this infinity. I see the chaotic energy of life, traffic, anger, pain, love, awesomeness and it's all infinity. Also came to the realization completely that there really is no body. Before there was the misunderstanding that there is a static body moving in the world, now there is no body. It is clear that no one goes anywhere, and that movement is an appearance so it's almost like a side scrolling video game where the character stays in the center at all times and doesn't actually go anywhere. This will be difficult to point to but it's like the body is always being manifested of itself right now this precise second, so there is no body as in a static being, it is always being manifested. Hard to point to because saying it's always manifested now still implies time. The quote "Wherever you are, there you are." makes sense now. (Not even sure if that's a quote or if I made it up lol). Just wanted to share ?.

God is a very humanizing term. I don't think it should be used. It'd be like calling a rock God, what you say is God is just literally existence. If God as a deity existed, he would be part of existence and thus an element of that. How can existence be called God? And why should we even give words to negatives, like "infinite peace" is merely the total lack of anxiety. Peace is not an emotion at all. Humans always feel some level of anxiety, ALWAYS we have some desire to do something or other, and so the absence of anxiety is so crazy to us that we think it's an actual separate emotion. Infinite power is also just implied by infinity itself. Beauty is lack of rejection (I hate the way X or Y is). The word has awful personifying implications, heavy historical meaning, and is wholly unnecessary. It shouldn't be seen as a being at all, it is a being and intelligent and all knowing only via its appearances through which aspects of infinity is realized. It's not even an it. It's also not just nothingness because it's also somethingness. Now there's no word. Infinity works if you accept finitude as one with infinity, since infinity necessitates finitude on various grounds which are easily explained.

I read David Hawkins´ Power Vs. Force and marvelled at these paragraphs - enjoy! “There is only one absolute truth; all the rest are semi-facts spawned from the artifacts of limited perception and positionality. “To be or not to be” is not a choice; one may decide to be this or that, but to be is, simply, the only fact there is. All of the foregoing has been expressed at various times in man’s intellectual history by sages who have moved beyond duality in their awareness. But even then, to claim that the comprehension of the non-duality of existence is superior to its realization as dual is again to fall into another illusion. There is, ultimately, neither duality nor non-duality; there is only awareness. Only awareness itself can state that it is beyond all concepts such as “is” or “is not.” This must be so, because “is” can be conceived only by consciousness itself. Awareness itself is beyond even consciousness. Therefore, it may be said that the Absolute is unknowable exactly because it is beyond knowing, because it is beyond the reach of consciousness itself. Those who have attained such a state of awareness report that it cannot be described and can have no meaning for anyone without the experience of that context. Nonetheless, this is the true state of Reality, universally and eternally; we merely fail to recognize it. Such a recognition is the essence of enlightenment and the final resolution of the evolution of consciousness to the point of self-transcendence...When vacillation between heaven and hell becomes unendurable, the desire for existence itself has to be surrendered. Only once this is done may one finally move beyond the duality of Allness versus nothingness, beyond existence versus nonexistence. This culmination of the inner work is the most difficult phase, the ultimate watershed, where one is starkly aware that the illusion of existence one transcends is irrevocable. There is no returning from this step, and this specter of irreversibility makes this last barrier appear to be the most formidable choice of all. But, in fact, in this final apocalypse of the self, the dissolution of the sole remaining duality of existence versus nonexistence—identity itself—dissolves in Universal Divinity, and no individual consciousness is left to choose. The last step, then, is taken by God.”

In my experience I didn't interpret any self to be able to think it is not real. I know that all aspects of the self including the word "I" seemed to be very distant from where I then was, and what I was, was at that time made of nothingness. The I thought and self and all things seemed very distant. What to make of that? Is the nothingness still referred to as the self? I'm not sure because I don't like terms like "you're imagining the laws of physics". It seems whatever is responsible for that contains no element of me AT ALL, but vice versa what that is contains me... I didn't feel the nothingness I became had any control, or at least as nothingness I could not will a million bucks into my lap etc. I didn't suddenly know everything. I am nothingness right now. And maybe the nothingness is omniscient (it must be), yet I am not even though I am it. That's strange.

Ever noticed how a perception or thought comes out of nothing, and back into nothing? Past memories you have, the moment itself when it happened arose and fell, from nothing back into nothing. A single moment. The sense that there was even any continuity IN that experience while it was being had, is a product of the mind and the consistency of the external world. See by the end of the time you were having your happy memory, say 10 minutes into it, the first 5 minutes of that time had vanished. A happy day was even when experienced made od billions of moments which came into being from nothing - then back into nothing. There's only this right now. There's only this exact moment... If you're KO'd, you wake and experience, ultimately, no gap in experience at all. I.e., neither I who stay conscious, nor you who is out cold, ultimately ever cease to experience. To me it seems you do, because I can describe moments you cannot. But ultimately for both of us experience is, firsthand, continuous with zero interruption... A happy memory you have, where is that moment? It is back in the same exact nothingness as the thought you had 5 minutes earlier is now. There's only this precise moment. Events (really just morphing objects, we are one of these) move through awareness AKA nothingness. Really they don't move anywhere but rather transform constantly. After transforming, the prior condition of the object is in nothingness. It isn't THERE in a place called the past. It's nowhere. At least it seems that way, as I was told earlier that block time is disproven. Which is helpful for an easier understanding... Block time would be fine but would then require belief in more that is not able to be directly experienced than just multiple finite perspectives as other humans (merely objects in and of nothingness) may report.

What I mean is, no matter what you identify as, the feeling "I am sad" and the associated unpleasantness, which is a feature of this infinity, is what it actually is. By identifying with the sheer nothingness, the feeling "sad" does not change. Interpretation of it changes. But if sadness stopped being sad, it's not sadness anymore. Sadness IS the whole package deal. The feeling of "I am sad" is the entire unit, which appears in consciousness. Same with pain. Interpretation of it can alted but the sensation itself and associated unpleasantness is a package deal. That IS what the experience is. All of these things are objects like literally ANY other. The application of a label to what the thing is, does not stop it from merely being thing... E.g. red is a thing, the sound of a piano is a thing. Labelling red as color and piano as sound is categorizing reality. Both are just "experience" or "appearance". Pain, suffering, anxiety, sadness, as such are just more objects like that... Just as you can't take the redness away from red, you can't take sadness away from sad. Because it is literally exactly what they are. You can only stop adding interpretation and egoic type resistance. But the thing itself could not alter without the form ceasing to be what it is...

Hello beautiful beings. Firstly, love you all very much. <3 The form here this morning sits in utter peace. Last night through a series of intuitive meditations, a pointer arrived. As it was poured out of the nothingness into the space, the head disappeared...then the body went as a whole. An explanation to the path followed is below: -Enjoyed a beautiful bowl of Gorilla Glue #4 cannabis. -Do nothing meditation to still the body -Used Alice Phoebe Lou’s album Glow (favorite female vocalist) as meditation object. This was the first time I’ve used music as the object of meditation. A few eargasms occured but mostly just deep presence with the sound, not quite merged but close. -Vipassana body scan and build a 3D light body in the emptiness behind the eyes. -Now the void had dimension to it, the light body seemed to collapse into that infinite space, and when I opened the eyes, the following pointer was spoken: -“Try to describe reality to myself using words BUT position a higher willpower on only speaking Truth” -the brain knows without doubt that no Truth can be spoken, but the feeling of trying really hard to do this was maintained. The brain stumbled over everything in the visual field, eventually looking at the hands and laughing hysterically about the fact that I’ve literally no clue wtf this is. -Then the pointer occured: “watch reality describe itself” and the moment this was spoken the head vanished. Suddenly there was the recognition that I’ve never directly experienced the head or face, I’d naturally have no clue there was even a brain. The actual direct experience or the head, face, mouth, breath, and body were seen to be a completely arbitrary set of sensations that absolutely don’t add up to what I believe I look like. Looked in the mirror and saw that what was seen in the reflection is 0% of what is directly felt in the body. -Ate food, “flavor” just appears out of emptiness. -Noted: “How could I possibly do this with my hands? *wiggles fingers* I only experience the doings, I only know knowledge by concepts. The body is fully automatic and i have no direct experience of a face or head” — Upon waking this morning and still to this moment, there’s no direct experience of a head. The visual field is fully seen without a seer. Time ceases to exist immediately unless speaking or typing. 100% of the information about what is seen is available just on the surface of the appearance The headlessness has happened once before, but it lasted only a couple minutes. This seems very stable and I’ll be repeating the same meditation path later today. Currently just melting into the field as the field. If this helps anyone, awesome. Curious to those who have gotten to this point if there’s any pointers you can share that may help stabilize the realization. -Love

Congrats! Whatever it was, it sounds quite significant to your path. You wouldn’t equate it to these attainments/rarefied states if it wasn’t a big moment. Did you “experience” cessation/Fruition? This comes about half a second or so after change in lineage when you first attain stream entry. Examining if there was cessation is the most phenomenologically-sound way to know if change of lineage or stream entry occurred. This is the best possibility out of all the things you suspect happened. It’s okay to feel good about yourself with such a thing. I can almost guarantee you that anyone who got there and realized what happened felt that to some degree no matter how anti-celebratory their tradition might be of attainments. From Mastering the Core Teaching of the Buddha 2nd Edition/Version: “Fruition (phala in Pali) is the fruit of all the meditator’s hard work, the first attainment of ultimate reality, emptiness, nirvana, nibbana, ultimate potential, or whatever extrapolative and relatively inaccurate name you wish to call something utterly non-sensate. In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, no background, no foreground, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. “Reality” stops cold and then reappears.“ The advice depends quite a bit on what you actually got to. These terms mean many different things: “boundless consciousness, "true self", nothingness, void, radiant unity, one-ness, the Buddha smile, and "Change of Lineage".” Samadhi is another different thing. Stream entry is another different thing. My best recommendation is to continue spiritual practice as you normally do but also read into the phenomenology of these different things so you can know more definitely where you’re at. Being clear where you are at can really impact growth in profound ways. It also has an amazing ego-burning rubber band effect as you find out how great of progress you actually made vs. examining yourself honestly to see how hard you *potentially* overestimated things. Either way, good understanding of the specifics of all of these states/attainments will help you a lot as you move forward. I’d be happy to discuss this stuff with you in detail if you wish. My first cessations occurred on 5-28-2021, and I have spent a lot of time developing an increasingly deep understanding and visceral experience of most of the terms you are thinking might have been “it.” Just send me a PM if interested. I can give much more specific instructions if we nail down exactly what happened.

Hey all, As the title says, I recently had a samadhi-esque experience while on an Ayahuasca ceremony. I've looked through models of consciousness during meditation and on psychedelics and have found several names for what I experienced including: boundless consciousness, "true self", nothingness, void, radiant unity, one-ness, the Buddha smile, and "Change of Lineage". I know I'm not enlightened, because I feel a major welling of pride for having reached this milestone in my spiritual development. I definitely still have desires. However, the way I look at reality has fundamentally changed. I now know where I came from, the nature of god (intuitively on a somewhat shallow level), and see the people around me as brothers and sisters of god. I feel like I've found true religion at this point, and want to take advantage of this new paradigm. For those who have been, what are your experiences and what advice would you have for someone who has reached stream-entry-or-close. Major love and respect to you all.

@Nos7algiK Nothing CAN'T be deceiving you though? I mean if you find nothingness, there's no illusion there, because an illusion is something. So you find that and it's the end, I would think.