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As far as timelessness goes, there is an important aspect that must be considered here, which is that the present moment is not finite. Which is to say that there is no "slice", like "a frame" on a tape. There is no finite moment that could be seen as a limited, enclosed "piece" of a larger tape ("the rest of time"), so to speak. But it sure seems like that. We tend to think of "the present moment" as a frame of time, the duration of which we are not quite sure of, maybe 1 sec, maybe 100ms? Who knows. But this is an illusion. And we then think that within this frame of time ("the present moment"), the future flows in, turns into the present moment and then flows out again into the past. And that "the future" and "the past" are like a tape that, although it is now gone, is being stored somewhere, inaccessible to human beings - unless we invent "time travel", so that we can bring up whatever piece of tape we want. There is no "it" ("the present moment", as ordinarily conceived). To most people, it feels like they're inhabiting a static piece of time. It's rather like an immediate arising and passing away, "both" so "simultaneously", so utterly identical, that nothing is happening at all, and nothing is not happening. You are (the) Now. "Now" is not occurring within this world, the world is held within Now. And Now is Nothingness. Now is In-finity.

If I am asked to believe his teaching that one creates their own reality of having this power to externally effect things to happen in the manifest and we all do. Then I have to wonder why is he creating the earth's cataclysm? The content is obvious what it is. People are addicted to the imagination of telling the story, an apocalyptic tale of epic endings in all the different flavors of expression. It's not much different than what happens even here with the mind of telling stories. Here the story goes that the epic ending is absolute infinity. We are all god, nothingness is the only thing that exists and everything else is a dream. The end.

It is. Especialy if your mind has good synergy with it. Iv known people that go paranoid if they take to much, but for me its just pure bliss. But the same could be said for any drug. I could totaly loose myself in LSD if i would allow myself to. Its just as amazing in its own way as weed. The fading into nothingness and the slight erotic skin sensation being the only thing left you feel while experiencing nothing but strange fractal paterns is pure bliss aswell. I could do it every weekend and it would probebly never get old... But i wont ? ill suffer like the grumpy ass i am.

It's not that they are absolute things that exist in contrast to each other. Good and evil are literally summoned from nothingness through the purely biased filter of the perspective of the ego. Imagine being a Greek solider despoiling the city of Troy, raping multiple women, slaughtering opposing men, and throwing their children from the walls. Everything you are doing is good from your POV. It's great for you, you are serving your Gods, you are getting the spoils of war from your labor. They are heretics, and you are justice. Everyone does what they do exactly because they think it is good (for them). And anything in opposition to that is "evil". However there is a catch, because it seems there is some kind of what I'll call "lightness" baked into the universe. Where is one moves from ignorance > awareness there is a trend of things being harmed less and less. That doesn't invalidate good and evil being imaginary. What do you know, the universe is paradoxical!

Ok I think I get what you're saying now, if you started explaining it like this it would have been way easier I'd argue that it's deeper than God, more like an another aspect of the same thing, but maybe you're right and I wasn't deep enough, or maybe I'm deluding myself and never "experienced" the nothingness you're talking about.

Actually what you are doing is more or less confirming creatio ex nihilo. You are confirming that we as contingent beings can cease to exist, that we were created, so what did create us? You did not cause yourself, and everything around you can not cause itself either. No matter what you do, you end up at the uncaused cause, which brings the universe into being, that is God, you are not God and neither are I. You can experience God bla bla, but , I am talking about the power which brings creation into being from nothing in that sense, God can make himself known, but we dont know what he really is in himself, we can see his invisible power in the things he has made. We depend on God , not the other way around, since some Masters as you say can "have" cessation, but still come back to exactly the same place in their room for example, there is something outside of your subjective experience which holds you in place, same with deep sleep, you do not all of the sudden appear with a different body etc in a different country. This uncaused cause does not cease , it is Being itself, but you or me or anybody else is not Being at all in itself, we are full of potential and actuality, meaning we change, everything is moved, that is actuality and potential, we are contingent beings. But God is not caused by anything else, it is the fullness of being, as you previously have said, nothingness can not create since it is non existent, so we arrive at an eternal uncaused cause which brings time and everything else into existence and it holds creation in place, thats why you dont " cease to exist" forever in a cessation or deep sleep. In the sense of creation for God, it is to bring or cause things to be. God is God, you are you. Nothing comes from nothing, and creation is here right in front of you, the eternal cause does not cease. But creatures can. My parents existed prior to me, as did yours, as did God. He is on a completely different metaphysical level then you and me.

@Leo Gura One more thing to you. Where were you before you were born? You probably wasn’t infinity or god, and there was probably no experience or even a void. There was true nothingness. And you realize that without experiencing it. When you go deep enough as god, existence itself will go away. And when you come back, you’ll realize just like before you were born, nothingness is before and after everything. Nothing is outside infinity because outside infinity is nothingness. Be open to the possibility there is something deeper, or nothing for that matter. God has an off switch like everything else in nature. Nothing is apart of god, but nothing is also outside of god. Making ti the deepest realization. “Nothing is deeper than god.” Because the word nothing exists for a reason, to point away from everything. This is true enlightenment.

@gettoefl Exactly. That’s why I have started asking people what was before you were born if you can’t realize nothingness? I don’t remember there being infinity or god. Which means nothingness comes before and after everything. That’s why I get annoyed with people saying you’re stuck existing forever.

@Vincent S Glad I can help. Like I told judy you wasn’t infinity or god before you were born, meaning god can not exist. Nothingness comes before and after everything. Confusion isn’t good unless you want to keep people listening .

Most within? But, you are talking about the most without lol. Don't take that too seriously, I understand your point. Nothingness IS God. They are not separate or should I say Nothingness is the womb in which Infinite potential is birthed from. To be birthed from means to be a part of. I think the term God is more the issue here because when we pull back all the layers God is just a human concept. But, everything we are talking about is very difficult to put down in language. God is just a filler word for the sake of communication. Even if we separate the two God/Nothing and call Nothing the floor. Then Nothing is now the concept of God. For it is the thing that created everything for lack of a better term. Honestly most of what you are saying is fine besides the separation of these two things.

@Nos7algiK Well deep doesn’t mean above or more than. It just means the most within. And if god and all of existence itself can have a no self experience or go to sleep like we can, then that means nothingness is the most within. I’m not misunderstanding, if someone thinks nothingness is apart of god, then they don’t realize god and existence itself can go away. If we go away and we become god, then when god goes away it becomes nothingness. Making it the deepest.

@Nahm Eh you’re mixing it up with empty space. If god can stop existing, then nothingness obscures god. All of existence can have a no self experience. And I don’t mean that in the sense of blackness or emptiness is covering it up, I mean completely not exist. Like when you go to sleep you go away, yet you don’t experience anything and time skips. Well when you go deep enough you can do that as god, and you can’t experience it but come back and realize it happened. So, it’s the deepest realization.

End of beingness is the final cessation I think. There's utter nothingness. Then there's beingness/presence/consciousness. Then out of that consciousness creation happens. That's the explanation given by mooji. I hope I got it right ?

@Nos7algiK I’m not weaponizing anything. You’re just not getting my elaboration. I’m just using the closest word we have to explain it. The word nothing wouldn’t exist if it didn’t point somewhere (or nowhere). God is an experience, but nothingness can only be realized. But you can’t experience nothing. When you go deep enough as god, all of existence will go away like when you go to sleep, and then come back. You’ll realize it happened, like when you go to sleep, but you won’t experience it, like when you go to sleep. And then you realize nothingness is the deepest realization because it’s the only way god can not exists. Non existence.

Yeah, sounds like a typical budhhist definition of cessation. Where all experience dissapears. A dip into a nibbana. In some schools they say one doesn't even have to go through god to enter nibbana. It's possible to skip it and go straight to nothingness. Or you can use god as a stepping stone to go to nirvana. Just adding some thoughs here

You are weaponizing dualistic language. But, what we are pointing to is much like Russian dolls. At it's core in a Russian doll there is nothing. "Outside" that nothing is the doll(God). Outside God there is nothing. Outside that nothing is another doll "God". This goes on forever, but there must be a final answer right? What is the biggest concept of them all? Is the doll the ultimate ground or is there more nothing outside that ground? There will always be more to see as we increase the scope of our consciousness. There is no answer or should I say the answer isn't set in duality this/that. The idea of a Russian doll already implies it's nothingness both inside and out. They are one in the same but even a Russian doll (God) isn't the most accurate term for what we are pointing to.

@Judy2 Yes. That’s how you can take it back. And it’s deeper than god because if god can go away, then nothingness is the only thing that can be deeper. And because god can not exist anymore, that makes it more than just a part of god. Beyond god.

@Salvijus Im confident it is what they’re talking about, enlightened masters, and that’s why they say they can’t explain it in words. Because when they do, people believe that they’ve attained it after experiencing emptiness. That’s why I can tell people that are saying nothingness is just a part of god or that god is the ultimate realization just haven’t realized true nothingness yet, just emptiness and infinity. And when they go through formlessness and infinity, they think “this state is what they meant!” And that you can experience it. You can’t experience it, only realize it happened. Leo also said everything is a state, making me believe he hasn’t realized it either. They call it the stateless state, because it isn’t a state. At all. God goes away. That’s why they say atman and Brahman. God is the ultimate atman. And just like everything else there’s a pendulum so there is a final Brahman. True enlightenment is post god realization when nothing exists, and then comes back.

So I am sorry guys for not engaging with you or responding to you in this thread I thought I have successfully temporarily suspended my problems and engaged in actively trying to fix them but I thought now I might open up here again since this seems to be a reoccurring issue for which I am deeply embedded and reminded of because of the guilt I feel for wasting my potential as a teen and young adult in the past five years. I will open up here with the emotional, anger, and mood issues I am facing here with myself and some reoccurring psychosomatic issues for the past several years: ''I am currently engaged still and bound up in a very toxic codependent family relationship with my only dad (after my mother has passed away when I was a kid) without gaining a modicum of financial independence for myself or being currently unemployed since I am studying and trying to wound up some subjects at faculty and trying to decide and make a decision will I still be going to faculty after all or will try to enlist in a college for social work that recognizes the exams I passed up until now on sociology and to before that attempt to find some part-time job, so I can get a revenue stream that will be my own, and not relying exclusively upon a family pension from my deceased mother's work internship as a programmer at a bank in Canada and a brief part-time as an accountant at the postal service here in my home country that I get for being a regular student at faculty or any higher education institution starting that lasts until I turn 26 while I am still at faculty or college, that my dad uses to cover part of his life and apartment bill expenses, since he has an irreuglar not stable income (income by performance) as German and English teacher in a private school via his temporary several months renewable contracts. So I am trying to see to pass some more exams here in the winter period but my long term prospects for remaining on this state faculty are called into question, I am feeling that it would be a dragged out and wasteful affair only for the sake of keeping the pension income from the state and that I can retain for the next two years anyway by enrolling into this private college for social work. Anyways what worries me to most is the fact that I haven't changed my habits enough (I still have problems falling asleep at night late, even after I meditate, I would wake up at 3 or 4 am after having some nightmares (like insects, centipedes walking over my arms, biting and eating me) and wouldn't fall asleep till early in the morning when the sun comes up), and would feel casual fatigue and profound tiredness during the day at noon and would have to lay down and sleep for half an hour or an hour until I feel I've drowned into nothingness after the felt emotional fatigue, turmoil, and emptiness I would feel during the day and I feel sometimes so tired at that point that I don't feel I have the strenght to last meditating for 30 minutes and that during that I would just roll over or fall asleep afterward anyway. So the point of me writing this all is to ask should be guided by my feelings in pursuing a certain course of action for my life and not take into account the insecurities and the needs of others like my dad's (who would still receive the pension regardless if I would enroll into this private college for two more years) I have until summer when the entrance exam for this is coming up to decide and I feel I have to pass a few exams here in the winter period to prove I am really serious about this and to find some part-time job with a steady income to cover a part of my expenses left for this faculty and for the private college. Also, I haven't mentioned it in detail but I will the severed bonds and relationships with my other relatives and grandparents from my mother's side that I feel that I need to heal, rekindle and regain their trust again after I acted passively, uninterestedly and didn't call them to ask them how they are doing and how are they (didn't call my aunt to congratulate her on her birthday in the summer) towards them for several months now, which I feel an obligation towards especially my step sister to whom I feel a brotherly duty towards to somehow help her in the future, when she, for example, enrolls into a faculty here in Belgrade when she is old enough, and friends (one from highschool and two girls who I've met in faculty) who were kind and caring enough to offer me their assistance with a job and advice for my mental health problems this past and last year especially with the Covid outbreak lockdown situation, online courses have done independently, my grandfather who I've seen a role model and guide for life difficulties and independence passing away, and my mother's passing away fifteenth aniversary, that I betrayed and lost their trust by not calling them back and answering them while I was in a self-imposed isolation during the start of my autumn semester at the fourth year at faculty, that I am trying to see now to how to make it up with them, regain their trust in me and for them to forgive me and give a second chance (they are on the latest of the list of people I haven't called back and answered back for a long time now in some cases months in others a year has passed (them being my sociology professor from highschool and my other relatives sister) that I feel for my sake I should try to rekindle my relationship with and to ask them for their forgiveness and for them to regain trust in me by showing them I've changed and have overcome my selfish and unheatlhy patterns of caring and trying to love nobody but myself). Thanks for hearing me out this is just the tip of the iceberg of things I feel bad and guilty about and that I am losing sleepover, and others being my failed perception of my personal life purpose that I need to somehow repay a debt towards, the failure towards the perceived expectations of people who've I looked towards as role models and heroes through the in comparison to my own state, achievements and actions up until this point in my their own Herculean feats and achievements they made for their own lives for my own life as being an evolving continuation of their successes and ancestors who made possible and leftover for me the cushiness and relative financial securities that I enjoyed through their own strivings, achievements and successes in their own lives and the mission of my soul on this Earth, which I've been thinking and contemplating about and will discuss here more in detail if that thread wouldn't be more appropriate for the Life Purpose Issues Subsection of the Forum.''

@BipolarGrowth I can’t watch it right now but I know frank yang has said before there’s one more emptiness after god. I’m not sure if it’s the true nothingness that you can’t really personally experience, or the void, but either way he’s on to something. True enlightenment is realizing there is nothing beyond infinity, and actually realizing that true nothingness.

@Shin He talked about the void that you can experience, but the fact that you experience it means it’s something and not nothing. Nothing is separate from god, nothing is deeper than god, so the only thing separate from god is nothingness, which you can realize and it’s the deepest realization because “nothing is deeper than god.” I feel like you’ll never comprehend what I’m saying though, and just keep thinking about empty space or blackness that you can experience. You guys even said yourselves without realizing it, nothing can be deeper than god. That’s right, so true nothingness is it.

@OneHandClap You’re the only one that understands what I mean whether intellectual or through realization. They keep smarting off even though it goes over their heads, that we’re not just talking about empty space, or infinity, but true nothingness which the mind can’t comprehend. It’s funny how they even say themselves there is NOTHING outside of god, without realizing it because they keep thinking about emptiness. And it’s funny that people get kicked for disagreeing with the main teaching, and then get so upset when people call it a cult. That’s literally as controlling as a cult can get. Imagine if it was a real life commune, imagine people getting verbally abused and ran out of the commune, or even getting executed if their were no laws. If we get kicked that just gives more evidence the place runs like a cult.

@Shin I repeated them so many times. That nothingness is nothingness and The only thing separate from god or reality is nothingness, and if you think it’s not possible you either haven’t realized true nothingness, or you don’t understand the meaning and think it just means empty space. Or a void form of god. No, god and reality both exist, so they are not part of nonexistence. And for the people saying they are two sides of the same coin, no they are not. Nothingness is nothingness and it doesn’t exist. Anything else is a thing that’s part of existence, even infinity. There can literally be NOTHING outside of infinity because it goes on and on forever, so the only thing that can be is NOTHING. Not empty space, because that would mean reality ends. No, absolutely nothing.

@Shin Me: No you can’t be nothing. Nothingness is nothingness You: don’t you see how dumb that statement is? Nothingness wouldn’t be nothingness if you were nothing! You can’t be nothing. But god is everything (a thing) which nothing is apart of! Do you see the irony? You’re arguing against stuff I didn’t even say while what I actually say goes over your head.

Can't you see how dumb that statement is. If you're truly nothing, then nothing would be happening at all, not even in appearance. But something IS happening, so this nothingness thing is utter stupidity. There IS a component of nothingness to the Truth, but it's only half of the equation. You've seen half of the equation and aren't open to the idea that your understanding of reality could be partial, no, you are 100% bulletproof right in your head, that's being closed minded and dogmatic.