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@Judy2 I am aware of formlessness, and it is not nothingness. I’ve explained it already. If you experience it, then it’s not true nothingness. You can only realize nothingness. You’re confusing formlessness with nothingness.

This nothingness is God. God is everything cause it's nothing in the first place. Nothing is the same as everything, cause everything is made of nothing aka God. This nothing can create an infinite amount of distinctions and states of consciousness out of thin air. Or he can just be one with itself without any of those. It still is the same thing cause it can't be more itself than itself. Even now being clueless about this in direct experience is still God.

As a matter of fact, it IS just arguing words what you do, literally. I've done my best, last reply too, you lost multiple people now. Maybe that can be a sign to you. You're very lost in mind. Before replying into nothingness, please, for your own sake, see that it's not an attack. But maybe there is a little tiny pinch of truth to that. Maybe you're just very lost in thinking. Experience/realization, thing/no-thing. All of it is irrelevant to what is being said here and all of it is literally just a concept. That's all it is. Realization is now in this very experience, has no name and doesn't argue about what it is or is not, since being x or y is a duality like any other. Either you see reality clearly right now or you don't. All the best to you my friend, give some attention to your heart. Won't come back here. ??

@peanutspathtotruth NO-THING. Anything that exists is a thing, meaning nothing is nonexistence. Literally couldn’t be more clear with my words. God- Ultimate reality, meaning it exists. Infinity goes on and on forever, and only a thing can go on and on forever. So nothingness is not a thing. And you guys are arguing it is. And I am not saying the same thing, I’ve been very clear that existence does not equal nothingness.

@peanutspathtotruth It’s not just arguing words, because words describe an experience. He’s saying nothingness is a thing , and I’m saying it’s not, so no we’re not saying the same thing. God and nothingness are not the same, by definition or experience. Nothingness isn’t an experience it’s a realization. He’s arguing it’s a thing, he said nothingness exists and it doesn’t. Otherwise it wouldn’t be nothingness. When you realize true nothingness, you’ll see it isn’t the same. God is an experience. That’s once again misconstruing what I’m saying.

I see what you're saying. But in no way is the body constant. The body once was not here, and we forget it at times, and it won't be here some day. It's neither a constant nor can't you get rid of it. Be unlucky in traffic and you don't experience the body anymore. You can also just look into the feeling of the body and see that there is nothing substantial or constant. It's just vibrations of yourself, just like anything else we call experience. And yes, because we misinterpret that vibration as being a constant feeling, we think that's what we are. Same goes for thoughts which seem like they were actually substantial instead of fluctuating waves of nothingness vibrating in nothingness. God god'ing itself

He takes existence as the ground of everything (ground not being a something) and says your notion must come from that ground You take nothingness to be the ground of everything (ground not being a something) and say his notion must come from that ground So as I pointed out earlier - you are both right, but tangled up in words. Existence/nothingness - Jesus Christ, decide on a word or just don't use any. We should all approach *insert name for absolute ground* like Voldemort - we never dare to speak its name. @Terell Kirbyo pointed to something important here - direct experience is what you guys are talking about. Everything is it. In that sense, reality is fucking real - existent or not (neither, both and each, and not even that ?). And he thought you were denying the isness of issing, that was his point (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). Bottom line: stop arguing over words, see what's real RIGHT HERE. It's not anywhere else, not in a concept of nothingness or everythingness. That's it, boom. All proper teachings say this. Non duality. Neither nothingness nor God, neither emptiness nor fullness. Neither duality nor non duality. Neither God realized nor not God realized. Neither attacking nor not attacking (sorry)

@peanutspathtotruth That’s my whole point. Nothingness is not a thing and I’m trying to tell people that, so why are you telling me this? It doesn’t make sense that you agree with me, yet you’re telling me with all of these people arguing that it is a thing or experience. Like look at the person above me, they literally just said “there’s nothing outside existence” yet tried to argue nothingness exists.

@Terell Kirby You can’t experience nothingness. Otherwise it wouldn’t be nothingness. You closest thing you can experience is empty space, which is not the same thing. But you can realize it. NO-thing means it’s not a thing, meaning it doesn’t exists. I’m trying to tell you it wasn’t empty space, but nothingness, and you don’t understand. It’s no experience, but a realization.

Aye aye John Locke ?? Have at it By the way existence/non-existence, nothingness/God, something being inside or outside something are all still dualities. Words just don't get you anywhere and that's why I'm teasing you *fades aways into emptiness, oops I mean nothingness, what was the correct term for the absolute again, I forgot? God?

@Terell Kirby I’m not missing anything. You’re just changing the definition of nothing. Nothing is non existent. Meaning it doesn’t exist. I didn’t experience e empty space, I realized nothingness. You don’t understand nothingness. You think it’s empty space.

Dude, you are seriously missing things lol. This will be my last reply to you. This "absolute nothing" that you speak of has to exist for you to get on a forum and talk about it. Anything that comes out of your mouth is some aspect of existence that you are aware of .. whether it is deemed "real" or some fantasy concept in your mind .. in this case "absolute nothingness". Direct experience IS existence, and it includes nothingness and something-ness. There is no distinction.

@Terell Kirby Yes, there is absolutely nothing outside existence, meaning existence or infinity is within nothingness. You’re trying to say nothing is something when it’s not, or confusing it with emptiness.

For non-existence to be spoken of .. it has to first exist. There is absolutely nothing outside of existence .. that includes non-existence AND nothingness. Your awareness knows this through direct experience, that is how you are able to speak of such things in the first place.

@Terell Kirby Nothingness is non existence. And like you said, existence is infinite. So, nothingness isn’t infinite. It can’t be an aspect of something it isn’t. Empty space and existence are within nothingness, but empty space isn’t nothingness. You think I’m talking about empty space, probably because I used the word emptiness at first.

Existence is infinite, and the nothingness you speak of is only one aspect of existence. You wouldn't even be talking about it if this weren't the case.

@Terell Kirby Nothingness isn’t infinite, only a thing can go on and on forever, even if that thing is empty space. You’re confusing infinite space with nothingness.

@Terell Kirby The definition of god isn’t nothingness, the definition of god is ultimate reality. Reality is within nothingness, meaning god is within nothingness, making it deeper.

Not attacking you at all I've seen this over and over and over again in this forum, and I'm seeing the same thing now. Absolute claims being made that get aggressively defended and all that is brought your way is interpreted as an attack. I said it in the beginning, I said it now: these discussions could be open, exploring perspectives together, making points on behalf of the beauty(!!!) of what reality/God/nothingness/whatever is. But people even, and especially, in this corner of the internet always have to make their own claims to be the only true one. That's not mature or integrated enlightenment at all. People were taking 5-MeO and having these insights for years here now. Me included. And all I'm trying is to soften us up a bit, with love and some humor, so we can stop being so adamant about it all and have a loving, non-defensive discussion. I love this forum and I'm willing to infuse it with all the love I can bring up so the overly dramatic seriousness is taken out and we can truly be helpful to each other. Defending is not helpful. Don't take it personally, you don't exist anyway This is not about you, it's about the whole attitude and energy of the forum. It's just not very integrated. I wanna help with that because I see great potential here.

@Breakingthewall Yes, nothingness doesn’t exist. It’s non existence. Like you just explained it’s not a thing. The problem is the beginning you said nothingness cannot exist without existence. It doesn’t exist anyway. You’re trying to make nothingness out to be a thing when it’s not. There’s empty space, and then there’s existence, and that’s al within nothingness.

nothingness without existence does not exist. Imagine that they give you anesthesia and they wake you up half an hour later, or a million years later, and for you not a second has passed. that interval was nonexistence. a nonexistent interval. The nothing you speak of has no space or time, but it exists, otherwise you would not be able to perceive it. go to nothing more times (although it is scary, at least for me), until you see that it is everything, infinity, that is the mystery (some who say they understand, I suppose it is possible)

@peanutspathtotruth And again, its not us saying the same thing but disagreeing. They’re saying 2+2=5 and I’m saying 2+2=4. They’re saying god is nothingness and I’m saying its not, by definition or experience. God is ultimate reality, so it’s a thing. Meaning within nothingness and not the same thing. If nothingness was creating it wouldn’t be nothingness.

@Breakingthewall Like I just explained, if you’re perceiving it then it’s just space. I didn’t say empty existence is nothingness, I just explained empty space isn’t true nothingness. You say total existence, so if you’re talking about something that exists, it’s not nothingness. It’s called the stateless state for a reason. Like I wrote an essay explaining space isn’t nothingness and you just tried to say I said space is nothingness lol

@peanutspathtotruth No, I have to defend my point when someone is misconstruing what I’m saying. My point won’t get across if I don’t. You can’t let someone punch you in the face and not defend yourself. They’re not saying the same thing I am, they’re saying god is nothingness and I’m explaining why by definition that’s not true. I can’t just let someone shut down my point and push their own and just agree.

@WelcometoReality People argue if nothingness created everything or if everything created itself. But there’s no argument that nothingness is creating anything, because that would make it a thing, even if it’s empty space.