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@Thewizardking I get what you mean. Same kind of experiences can happen on weed too. And also, this kind of pattern threw me into serious mental health crisis. I spent time in psych ward and had to take antipsychotics. The netflix show seemed to tell me I had to commit suicide. So yeah, it can get pretty horrifying. ? This is conceptualization rather than meditation. This is when you are averting feeling and projecting/running into thought-stories and narratives. I would advice you not to take these substances. If you are looking for wellbeing, insight, joyful living and inspiration, build the foundation with meditation, dreamboard and self-expression. Believe it or not, these are even better than just tripping.

I'm not gonna bother digging up studies and research to prove it, but I disagree with the general sentiments here that younger generations are becoming less racist. I've seen studies saying that Gen Z is actually the first generation to be more conservative, having less sex, more racist, more traditional than the generation before them in a long time. The problem is a reporting issue. Schools are totally locked down with anti-racism, pro-LGBT and everything else nowadays. Kids are terrified to say anything about a minority group or protected class because they'll get cancelled. It's social suicide, as well as potentially ruining scholarships, jobs, etc. But trust me that these kids are saying plenty of racist stuff in private. Even liberals can say some pretty racist stuff in private. When you make something taboo, of course kids are going to rebel against the mainstream position and do what's edgy and different. If you think "Republicans" are as right-wing or racist as it gets, that's your first problem. You guys are stage green leftists just hypothesizing about what the right is actually like. Republicans are maybe 1/3 of the way to the "far right". Actual racist / right-wing people laugh at how pathetic and similar to Democrats the Republicans are today. They consider Republicans traitors because they don't nearly go far enough. Just because racist stuff has been deplatformed off Youtube and Twitter and you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't growing elsewhere. Racist podcasts, private Discord groups, even in-person meetups are booming especially in terms of younger membership. They say that people get more conservative as they get older. If that's true and seeing what Gen Z kids are saying in private nowadays, I think you're in for some pretty wild political times in 10 or 20 years. Where did you come to your assumption that racism is so bad anyway, and have you ever challenged it? Are you afraid you might actually get converted over? If you're really open-minded, I'd challenge you to really listen to a racist speak sometime and see if they don't make some valid points. Not some idiot redneck either, but an actual educated race realist. (Personally I did the opposite and gave socialists, communists, and breadtubers a fair chance, watched over 100 hours of video from them and read several leftist books to challenge my own positions. It actually did shift me to become more of a centrist, although I still like to listen to people on the right speak as well)

Note: I don't have the intention of ending my life anytime soon, so don't worry too much about suicide prevention. I also don't have suicidal thoughts right now, I just remember them, so please spare me the harm-reduction, I'm currently feeling better than 90% of the time and I was never close to commit suicide.

Hey guys, I just took a break from spirituality, and it's probably like the 5th time I started abusing alcohol again. It's been 3 months and I've been drinking every day since. I relapsed like 5 times in 2 years and I'm only 23yo, never took any other drugs (except weed from 14yo-17yo). If you don't want to hear me whine, just read after the "+++++++++++", i'ts basically the same just shorter. Every few months I just can't handle the alcohol sickness anymore, having suicidal thoughts every morning after having a binge, fighting with myself trying to stop and then failing miserably. Stopping for a few months, then I'm somehow forgetting the misery of alcohol sickness and starting again, drinking every day and risking to have bad withdrawal if I stop. I tried to keep it short, and life hasn't been easy for me. Right now I'm not suicidal or even feeling really bad actually, but I can't continue like that. I don't see the point of doing another withdrawal, because I'll just relapse in a few months, and if I continue drinking until I can't handle it anymore. Once that happens I'll be in fucking pain, knowing that it's only a temporary relief from suffering. I already was able to give up on my spiritual pursuit, but I end up drinking and suffering. I'm taking half a dose of antidepressants every days, I've come to accept the fact that I'll never gonna be able to live without chemical substances. Unfortunately, I don't believe (and I haven't mentioned too much about it) a lot of people get how much suffering life can offer you. LOL. How often have I tried to explain people what I went/go through. Even when I don't consider what I'm going through as actual suffering, some people consider my "normal state" as suffering. I don't know what went wrong with me, but something fucked me up pretty bad. I vaguely remember being moderately happy and existence being beautiful, but it seems like a distant impossible alternative existence. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sorry for confused whining about my feelings/situation here is a TLDR: I'm suffering. I've tried everything. I've had years of moderate suffering, months of intense suffering and days of absolute horror of existence. I became a robot that's programmed to escape suffering. I'm just programmed to do that right now, and I naively believe enlightenment is my only way out. Unfortunately, I am also an alcoholic and addicted to nicotine, I also have responsibilities (a business and disabled mother). I am either going to be a homeless heroin junkie, get enlightened or kill myself. I am SERIOUS when writing that. I don't have any other choices, and I have no more energy to lead a normal life. The suffering I was willing to go through for years is because I don't want my family to suffer my absence/suicide. Unfortunately I don't have the energy or motivation to get a "normal" fulfilling life again. So now I'm all-in on classical enlightenment. I'm gonna probably go to a therevadan buddhist monastery, unless you guys have better ideas. I can't take psychedelics because I'm at risk of developing schizophrenia (my psychiatrist told me). One more alternative would be to take really fucking strong antidepressants, which are only prescribed to people who are about to blow their brains out. Do you guys have been in a similar situation? It feels like a vicious circle with no way out. Going downhill, things getting worse relapse after relapse --> leading to despair. Getting beaten by a force stronger than me. Do you (european) guys have good recommendations for monasteries or retreats within a 1000km range of luxembourg?

A huge problem for the "West": Declining health because of the huge amount of environmental toxins I believe this causes the population to be physically sick and emotionaly unstable, causing all kinds of conflicts. Many people will be debilitatet with conditions like autism, ADHD, depression, anxiety, CFS, Burnout Syndrome, Parkinson's, cancer, gut conditions,... Mentally sick people will adhere to devisive ideologies, ruin their health with drugs, get socially isolated, commit suicide, ... Less people will reproduce leading to senile population ... less workforce, more people needing care than can get it, economic decline,... Off course society will adapt to it, but I believe this has and will damage society dramatically

Update 4 January 8, 2022 I tend to get a bit disoriented when I wake up, as if I'm in the middle of jungle not knowing where to go. Writing in the journal helps me to feel grounded. Girl, what happened to not participating in the forum? You just did Answer to self = that's because I just woke up and when I'm just woken up, my brain is gooey and a mess. Then in that state, I click on a thread and start replying, that kinda acts like a kicker. But control control control control.. Tomorrow onwards, no more replying to any thread. Okay??? Just pure focus on the journal. I did my social responsibility and social obligation to this forum by writing this thread. If anyone on this forum commits suicide in the future, my reply is going to be this same thread. Yes there is some responsibility on the part of the owner to look into the suicides and put general disclaimers. Also having compassion for suicidal people will go a long way. I had many talking points in the thread. I saw that this forum has a dismissive attitude towards suicide, it's generally like "this is not our job." sorry! to me it appears as dismissal. Once I know I finished my obligation to this forum, I can have peace of mind and move on. That was probably my last thread. Leaving aside all of that, I have to be back on track with myself and continue to grow myself this year. I really didn't even think about my new year goals. OK that's going to be in my bucket list. I will have two lists to work on - one is a TO Do list, just to keep a track on work and projects and the second list is going to be the bucket list which will entail things I wish to accomplish or hope to accomplish this year or things that I generally want or should want. For example, one of the things I want is to have concrete goals for the year 2022. No wishy washy. No laziness. No monkey business. No blankness. No being clueless about what I want. The new year began while I was in a stupor from the flu. Time went by and it's already a week now. It helps to keep a track. So I barely have had time to make concrete plans and goals for the new year. Messy start I can say. One thing that was good was that I flipped through some zodiac information on my horoscope and came to know that red is going to be my lucky color. Synchronically, I had already ordered red jewelry before even reading the horoscope. That was a bit unusual, but not too unusual since my brain always works like a psychic, always had. So I'm not surprised that my brain picked the red color automatically. I got all the red jewellery now, except maybe a few rings that are going to be delivered. Apart from that I wanted to start my new journey this year and celebrate healing and leave my unfortunate past for good. Since I suffer from PTSD, this is a huge challenge, as one of the hallmark signs of PTSD is the constant resurgence or resurfacing of the past through rumination, a traumatized brain tends to vomit constantly until its finally done and over with and can move on. Pressuring it to move on prematurely (without adequate vomiting) is like dressing the wound with multiple layers of cloth and not letting it get oxygen to heal. If the dressing is not removed, the wound might get infected. Similarly if bottled up emotions are suppressed further, they will find an outlet in the future to explode like a ticking bomb. I guess that's what happens to mall shooters. They never get enough time or space to heal and bottled up emotions then explode like a bomb all at once. It gets explosive when it's not dealt with. Don't push yourself when it comes to healing. Vent as much as possible. And then the mind reaches a point where it's ready to finally let go and move on. This year I'm ready to move on. This is mostly happening because of Marcel. He is kinda fast tracking my progress. I'll have to gradually lose my attachment to the past. And then swiftly move on. To celebrate this moment of launching myself I bought a bunch of lipsticks (lol). I know it sounds cheap but lipsticks make me happy, I'm the girly girl.

So I can only know my own experience and then project that, but I don't think committing suicide is easy for anyone. I know for myself anyway at least there are a lot of random moments of feeling "good" or feeling more uplifted (mood and etc cycles) which give you hope, even if the vast majority of the time I'm depressed or miserable af. And I'm guessing it's like that for everyone. But the reason I would want to commit suicide anyway would be because I want to "end the cycle" and not let things repeat. It wouldn't be easy to do at all, and would require something impulsive or some strong emotion/(abstract conviction) to do it? So I'm more or less just randomly thinking if its like that for most other suicidal people. All light casts a shadow; if there are winners there are losers If I'm taking care of myself slightly better with mundane tasks, cooking, watching TV, I feel slightly better from that. But in the moments my senses are stimulated a lot, all I feel is shame in its stay. I barely have the energy to go through the motions, and whatever small uplifting boost I get from going through those motions in fact almost highlights what negativity I feel. I remember so many times when I was younger and I'd exercise, I'd always feel so shitty later in the day and be super depressed "why isn't this working" "why am I feeling worse". And if it gets to that point, it's like "what's the point?". I'm then a Sisyphus endlessly pushing boulders uphill. "Things can't get any worse"—bollocks. If one sees how terrible their life currently is, then, unless you're stupid, you'll understand that in the future you'll pay a worse price for continued idle. I thought my depression and depths of suffering couldn't get any darker; but they did. In my BPD-esque low, I desire and desire, yearn and yearn to no end. But I don't know a more painful cursed trait. Things would be easier if being an android was the only part about me. But this is not the case, and the longer things go on the more my self-humiliation tumour grows, till the shame corrodes my insides more and more. I forced myself to march through hell, exploded with rage, came across Lucifer (and Satan who more quickly left). The more I decided to be brave and face my fears, the more I decided to take the risk, the more the self-humiliation bugs ate me alive. And so in a cruel irony, my courage destroyed me further [I am not exaggerating, I am being serious here]. My rage ran out, crashed, left with nothing. I went through this hell of a year for absolutely no gain. All I have are regrets for things long ago I couldn't control and can't change, profoundly negative self esteem, and now a general disdain for actual ground reality which is divorced from digital hyperspace or fictional universes. Before my first breath, before God's first name was decreed, it was destined that this fate would befall me. The dominos were set in motion long ago, I had no choice. The cosmic play and tragedy. —— All that's left is rot and decay, never ending emptiness which gets highlighted further by all attempts to return to how things were or should be. I am an android, angel, demon, alien, the label makes no difference. With the freedom to think, the mind can think whatever it wants. I don't even have the desire to be happier, because I have 0 framework for what that can mean. The desire for happiness is some vague tautology, and I do not have a ""self"" which can become happier. I no longer can summon any hysteria or rage at my castration. Any rage at how my costume, persona and self is like an old, itchy suit I HAVEN'T THE SLIGHTEST INCLINATION TO WEAR. SO I MUST PROFFER; DO YOU EXPECT ME TO WALK INTO CLOWN COURT ONCE AGAIN. I have no rage left, all I can do is present to you these phantoms. Wisps of smoke I present and give to you. My Self is like a whirling infinitesimal fluid element, there is no complexity to or substance to my emotion. Just phantoms and ghosts of the already dead. I will re-iterate this message about how I'm feeling, in case anyone I know is reading this if/after I've killed myself. I have no reality, I'm a walking ghost. The appearance and projection of self isn't the same as self. There is nothing behind the mask; "All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks". Absolutely nothing exists beyond appearance and form, and that is the great tragedy. Nothing exists but appearance. But You are not You; You have no blood, no body, no bones. You are just a thought. A vagrant, foolish thought, forlorn and wandering for all eternity. All I say is a lie and nothing is the truth. My whaling hunt of malice is over, and in perfect solipsistic humour I was all the more pranked after it's conclusion. I am praying for the downfall of this species and cheering for its demise. May I see you all never. And if by some cosmic joke I should have to see any of you again after my death, I will take it upon myself to slaughter you where you stand, Amen.

It's not. Forcing yourself to sit still for sessions of at least 30-45 minutes each, 6 sessions everyday, that's almost like serving jail time. You can't talk or express yourself during that time, you're literally silenced, forced to read and write, to lock your mind in the box provided, etc. And then you go home with homework, which can potentially hurt your eyes and create posture-related problems on the long run if you're not careful. Most of this might seem very passive in comparison to other forms of abuse, but I still consider it toxic and hindering of growth. Otherwise, how do you explain the high depression and suicide rates in the modern world even though it's technically a lot better than ever materialistically? It's because we're actually abused. Not without asking the child. If the child doesn't like school, then it's abuse. Some children actually love studying, and that's great. Make schools for those. Let them do what they love. It is because we've made it so. Maybe if schools didn't exist, children would grow up faster. Think about it. The time we spent studying could have been well spent on building our personality and awareness of the world instead. Just imagine this possibility. After all, the legal age is a modern concept, and our ancestors lived just fine without it. Good, but not good enough. The circumstances weren't tough back then, but school definitely was for me. I don't remember enjoying even in the slightest studying any one particular thing in my entire journey. All of my motivation to study and succeed was based in fear, not 1% of it in love.

@Sine This is truly heartbreaking. What a nightmare. Any chance he committed suicide while on psychadelics or subsequently, due to derealization? For doing this kind of work, I think more and more it is really important to have very very deep roots in the mundane. Being obsessed with Truth or transcending the ego might results into disdaining the material and/or losing ground. One's epistemology and sens of knowledge can be severely shattered. Now, I am extra careful because I know I've questioned notions as such as freewill, my own body motricity and wondered if a trip could ever result into self-harm or suicide while on the trip. This is why I think tripping in proper structure with help from 3rd parties with some expertise is the best context to do so. I hope these type of structure will soon be more common.

I had wrote a lot about my problems on this forum so I thought that it will be a cool idea to share my experiences that made me overcome those problems. For a long time my only desire was to die brutally and escape this life. The thought of killing myself begun 3 years ago: I had a physical fight with a new classmate in gym class, we where only pushing ourselfs like most dumb teenagers do and I was ok with that, but he wasn't. He stated clearly that I have hurted him and when I asked him to forgive me after all of that he didn't do it. He also changed desk in other classes to not stay near me stopped talking to me. I felt like a monster, an unforgivable ugly creature. I started to find other ways in which I was not "a good boy" and basically started not feeling enough for this world. When I came home after school I used to change my clothes, sit on my desk and just cry. It was hell and the only way to escape that I've found was to kill myself. After a while had an undescribable expirience in which at the peak of my suffering I realized that "I don't want to suffer anymore" was equal to "I want to be happy". This changed my life as I begun to take responsability for my life and myself in general. It was in this period that I started personal development and began to watch Leo's videos. I was obsessed with it, and the thought that ran me was "If I am not enough, I can become enough with personal development". And so I did basically: I changed myself completely from a skinny shy boy to a funny, smart and charismatic guy. My grades at school were growing, I had found a girlfriend, I started a little online side-hustle, reading books, cold showers, meditating, exercising, ecc... Until this summer things became too much: the "I can be enough" was never coming to an end but growing into larger and larger goals until they started to became impossible. Again, I took responsability for not reaching those goals (I did not realize that the problems were caused by the goals themselfs), and started tonot feel enough for this world again, but this time much more stronger. One day I went to a soy camp in the nowhere with a knife. "If nobody will answer this suicide hotline I'll do it". I called two times and no one answered. I started to laugh, then I cried, a lot and finally I went home, more broken than ever. My girlfriend was always there to help me but never made a real difference until I talked to a friend of mine: we were walking, I feld at peace with him, and I told him about the fact that I wanted to kill myself. He did not judge me, he only said that he would have missed me if I commited suicide. Later he talked about psychoterapy and how this Ms. Psycologist helped him out a lot. I thanked him but I did not intend to go to therapy. A few days later I argued with my girlfriend about some silly stuff but it had a huge impact on me. I wanted to die so bad but I found the strenght to at least watch some videos on youtube of other stories of other people and how, in the end, psycotherapy changed thair life. So out of despair I called my friend and asked him the numer of the psychologist, took an appointment and explained to my dad why I was going there (I lied to him about the real reason). At the beginning I did not like psychotherapy because it forced me to talk about my problems (not so cool) but as soon as I started to talk about my childhood things begun to make a lot of sense. I realized that proving to be enough started with the fear of being abandoned by my parents, especially my mom. Even when my mom came home from work tired and did not celebrate with me my good grades I took responsability for her mood: "It's my fault if she feels this way, the grade that I took was not high enough". This started to apply to everything and if I needed some help with something my dad was pushing early in my life towards my indipendence (shitty combo). Even if those thing seem small, they have builtd up over time and when 3 years ago I argued with my friend the fact that he did not forgive me was a realization like: "Not only I'm not eough for my mom, now even for the world". Seeing how each and every single piece worked together in the big picture was huge: I had this experience of literally "zooming out" of what was happening and seeing it more rationally. Just from this experience I had a huge relief and life begun to feel more easy and peaceful. But things got even better. On the 4th appointment Ms. Psychologist asked me "What can make things even better?", "To finally let go of all this guilt and suffering" I said. Then she ipnotized me. In that experience all made sense, I felt like I had liberated a deep part of me. I realized how I have always been perfect as I am. I felt so much love for myself and for my life. I was left with so much peace and compassion for me, my parents...everybody!! Life was worth living just for that moment. After that my pessimistic view gone pretty much away, I see things in their context now. I find it very difficult to get offended and I don't need to stress so much about my results in general. Counterintuitevely I had found that when I let go of wanting something my way and just forget about it, I end up getting the thing I wanted!! I had also moments of total peace and immersion in the present moment and in that place joy comes naturally. I can't be more grateful for my life now than ever. If you are thinking about killing yourself going to therapy will help you for sure. There is a solution and you don't have to solve your problems alone. I also want to thank @Leo Gura, without him I would have not be open ehough to this possibility and also I would have not took responsability for my life. Your videos did change my life and continue to do so. I hope that I'll made you a little proud of your followers <3. I know this is a long post but I think it can help some of you on this forum. Hope that this has helped <3

#Day 11: Was okay.. Cant deny that I am confused. Was more of a reasoning with the story about myself again. Common traps: Wanting to fix something. Wanting to get over something. Wanting to integrate something. Wanting to reason about something and talk it into Truth. Wanting to fix something as a separate entity and trying to desperately befriend the story. Wanting to show others how I made it "out of the mud" --> these narratives create terrible feelings, as I dont the hell know how i will be at peace on a "thought level" with the Story. So: I listened to some Francis Lucille desperately trying to find solutions only to tell myself "No they cant help me, they dont know about my problem and how to fix it, not even Gurus will get it, how will I get it then" and imagining myself how I tell them how desperate I am and that I desperately need a solution and then imagining I need the no-self realization again which felt again like not even that will solve "my issues". The narrative went full on repeat. So, unfortunately, with the expectation of wanting to solve and fix something, I meditated...of course it was hell. Sitting 30 mins, arguing and fighting with "my story" and suddenly the narrative started to change to self-hatred and suicidal talk: "I am fucked, you stupid mo...maybe I am just broken and didnt realize it. I could just end it once and for all, fuck it all, but you know what suicide wont be much different than this, you will just reincarnate..." Blablabla. Felt a lot of resistance against what is. Common thoughts: "How will I be able to live like this, I have to live with no-self in order to feel peace, that's the only possibility" "I need to be at peace right now, why isn't it working, just be with it, you must" "I need to see that I am nobody now!" Of course it's all bullshit and I just witnessed it. It was hella painful tho. Just imagine you are faced with a situation you just dont want to face for straight 4 years. You try to make peace and try to connect the dots with your past but you CANT. In the end the only thing that really helps is seeing that I AM the only one dealing with it NOW. NOBODY else. Just wanna get over it.

@Sine I felt physically ill in my stomach reading that, these sorts of things can be like that. One of my close friends who I regarded as like a brother commit suicide over a year ago, very similar feelings arise

@Sine I discovered one and only message i send to him. I asked him, after his claims about higher states of Consciousness and being one with God, what happend to his wounds as a relative person. I suspected some spiritual bypass. He answered back telling me he is preety much healed but there is always some room for continues healing in the collective... But i never thought he would die by suicide... This is so sad...

? Taking a look at his posts, this seems to me once again the same conceptual jungle and emotional suppression that is widespread in this community. Is it just me, or are you too seeing more people committing suicide than waking up on this forum?

A moment of silence for user Waveintheocean. Can we all hold a moment of silence in the memory of a community member waveintheocean who departed in the month of December by committing suicide. Condolences and prayers to his family and anyone who is mourning his loss. I don't remember interacting with the user waveintheocean (perhaps rarely if at all) and so I do not know much about this user, although I deeply regret his loss since he was a member of this community, I feel a sense of connection that way. I was hesitant on making this post, not sure about what I wanted to say, but I thought it was my social responsibility to compose a general message in the hope that others will pick it up and not repeat the same. It saddens me deeply that user waveintheocean did not try to seek help either through this forum or privately before this tragedy occurred. You're truly missed Waveintheocean. It's sad that you left us. Maybe you could have let us know what you were going through and we would have helped you in whatever way we could. It's sad and unfortunate that this opportunity was never given. Your loss affects us more than you know now that you are gone. Many people on this forum feel suicidal. I personally been through those struggles. My heart goes out to you and understands your pain. Last night I cried thinking about you and how you left.. I felt as though you felt a sense of emptiness and felt this life was pointless. I want users to know to not take non dual teachings so seriously that they lose the zest for life. Life is worth living in your darkest and emptiest days. Don't ever lose hope. Your life is precious. Every life is. I personally don't know what sort of a hell the user waveintheocean was going through days before his death but it seems he saw no way out. He probably even felt that psychedelics and non duality was a solution to his emptiness and life's issues but sadly non duality can be very misleading for those who are looking for a way to live a fulfilling life. Often people come to the forum complaining about how non duality made them lose interest in everyday life things, perhaps we as community members can pay more attention to such complaints rather than just debating frivolously on non duality. If it impacts people negatively, there must be some truth to their complaints, there might be something for everyone to learn and understand that if something doesn't really help you find what you need in life, then you shouldn't cling to it out of herd mentality. Non-dual teachings are not meant to lead toward leading a happy or fulfilled existence as seen in the past 2 suicides on this forum alone. Maybe it's an illusion to think that you will magically find the truth in non duality. I'm not bashing non duality here, simply mentioning that it might work for some but not for others. Also this forum has a tendency to float this view that life is boring without infinite consciousness states, yes I agree that life has both materialistic and spiritual paradigms, but it's wrong to assume that life is pointless petty if you haven't achieved God realization or infinite consciousness or enlightenment. Life is worthy with or without. Your life does not become pointless because you did not follow non dual teachings nor is death a way to achieve such truth. Remember you could be using non dual teachings as escapism and taking life for granted. Please don't. Life is too precious to think of losing it even it meant you're reaching some form of truth. Nothing is more Valuable than life itself. Even though this sounds cliché, it needs constant reiteration. 1. Psychedelics and non duality are not the end all be all. Please take psychedelics seriously and not something that you should do as an experiment especially if you are dealing with some form of mental disorder psychological issues like mania, depression, suicidal ideation, trauma etc because taking psychedelics purely for experimental or recreational reasons when your basic state of mind is in chaos could be a disaster. Be careful while trying to find the truth especially when psychedelics are involved and don't take unnecessary risks. Your insights while tripping on such things meanwhile having an unstable mind/emotional state could easily lead you to a path of suicide and chaos. Please don't go straight to the idea of enlightenment even when your basics aren't in order or figured out. You're adding too much too sudden to your already complicated existence. Be grounded in reality. Your insights need to have some structure, some tethering to reality. If you feel that you are experiencing chaos, immediately stop the usage of psychedelics and first come to a ground state. Your basic life should have some order in order to keep suicidal thoughts out. Non duality is just a concept. You don't have to and you don't need to turn it into an ideology and it's not the best one at that when you are looking for healing and psychological well-being. Don't think about it as a road to ultimate happiness, in fact it is anything but that. Most people don't register themselves as happy and fulfilled when they follow these paths anyway. It overlooks other aspects of life terribly .. aspects that are paramount to human happiness. Most people don't have a fundamental grounding and the necessary family support to cope, when they begin to get trapped into these rabbit holes of non dual spirituality. They find themselves in sudden chaos and life becomes to seem endlessly confusing, chaotic, mundane, boring and their detachment to life reaches such high levels that they begin to feel disoriented and dissociated from basic existence and see suicide as a cop out from their confusion and malady and see death as a means of attaining truth and liberation, a classic rabbit hole and fallacy. Please consider this. 2. Embracing Reality. I recently came across this insight that a part of my spirituality kit was to embrace reality as much as possible, whether I like it or not. It's important to embrace reality. Suicide does not lead to truth. A lot of users confuse Mahasamadhi and the concepts of infinite consciousness with death and try to bypass life to get to it. That's an error. If you do not embrace reality, it's difficult to get the most out of life, plus some way or another reality will come and slap you in the face at some point if you don't make peace with it. Please understand that reality is not your enemy even if it's often cold and harsh. It's only a mirror, a tool to navigate through the maze of life. 3. Importance of compassion. No matter whatever negative opinions we have about others on this forum, it's important to hold compassion for everyone. One way to practice compassion is to hold a completely non judgemental view of the other. We never know what someone might be dealing with or going through. We are not in their place/shoes. Our opinions are merely opinions at the end of the day. We are here to uplift each other. People who seem to be doing well in life or generally happy or seem to be making tremendous progress on the spiritual side might still have their psychological and emotional demons that they're dealing with. It's not necessary that if someone is spiritually progressing they are automatically perfect and not struggling with anything. Please don't judge. Don't judge someone struggling in life as incomplete, unwise, defective or "misusing the forum" or "trainwreck" or unworthy of help or a lost cause. We all need some form of help. That's why we are all here in the first place. This is not a competition of who is perfect and who is defective. Let's not play favoritism games. Everyone deserves help and fully entitled to receive help on this forum in whatever way they see fit. Let's not judge how they seek to get help, it's up to them. If we stay non judgemental on serious issues like suicide and depression, people will be more likely to open up about their struggles without hesitation and fear of judgement and we can stop them from an actual suicide. Maybe they can't afford therapy. Maybe they don't have access to therapy or insurance. Lady Gaga very recently emphasized on the importance of awareness on mental health struggles and how millions of people cannot afford therapy in America alone, think about the situation in poorer countries. People who look perfect on the outside or seems like they are well put together, could be falling apart on the inside, maybe they have some sort of internal conflict, some sort of internal pain that is bothering them, maybe they don't feel like talking about it out of the fear that they would be judged or that they would be perceived as not so perfect or they would be stopped being taken seriously. It's important to not make a person feel like they committed some crime or failed to show proper growth (as per forum standards), whenever they became vulnerable and opened about their personal struggles. Shaming someone, judging someone for their personality, personal life or flaws is a big reason why people don't dare to open up about their truest deepest struggles. Is out forum so drenched in scarcity mindset that we cannot accommodate or give space to people who are struggling? Do we constantly need to engage in ego validation debates of who is better than who. We need to drop this and reduce the stage orange competitive nature and adopt the compassionate approach. No matter how wise, spiritually advanced, calm, centered one appears, deep down they could be struggling as well, nor is there a need to judge someone who is vocal about their struggles and forsake them or deem them unworthy of appreciation. If we can talk about having compassion for pedophiles, then we can definitely extend compassion to those who feel weak, helpless, struggling, those who feel depressed, suicidal, those who have emotional issues because everyone deserves compassion, not just a specific group. Let's not invalidate someone's struggles nor their need for appreciation and acceptance. Everyone deserves a chance to open up without being subjected to your biases and invalidation or your judgement. There's a tendency on this forum to demonize suicide or suicidal depression by constantly saying "this is not the place." I understand that someone dealing with such issues might need real world help like a suicide hotline, therapy etc, yet constantly headlining that people with such issues should go look elsewhere is a sign of dismissiveness, indifference and disowning such people and their issues, simply because we don't want to deal with it, we want to turn a blind eye when we can do at least a tiny bit to help people with such issues by simply giving them space to open up and by being non judgemental. The more we judge and shun people with suicidal issues/depression/trauma issues, the the harder it will be for people like that to come forward for treatment. You definitely want them to seek other forms of help, but you want them to seek help in a safe place in a safe way without turning them away. 4. Using practical help Not everything is healed by spirituality. It's important to seek professional help if you have the means to do so. Don't rely on this forum completely. After all it is just a forum where anyone can join, not a paradise. A lot of disordered people join here and it's best to not take advice from them. Don't follow any advice here blindly. Don't abuse psychedelics. Don't take Leo's advice with a grain of salt. If Leo's advice is not applicable to you, doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. If you're in a critical situation, best to avoid the forum as much as possible because it can fuck with your head kinda badly. If you have medical problems don't consider psychedelics and non duality just because Leo tells you so. First work out on your problems safely and with assistance. Be open to ask for help. If someone is trying to play spiritual dick measuring contest with you, avoid them. You're here primarily to help yourself, not to prove anything to Leo or anyone. Namaste and condolences. Preety.

November 28,2021 Second person who commits suicide here. Rip buddy

It's January 5 I ate garlic curry yesterday with soy sauce and I absolutely do not like it's taste in my mouth. My mom passed on this infection to me. I'm really angry at her for not wearing the mask. I have been suffering from the last 10 days now and there is little improvement. I told her that I needed to eat berries to feel better. And she refused I'm not even allowed to buy anything from my own money(for my own health) or else she gets furious. I'm fed up of her control. I also don't feel like participating in the forum after another suicide has rocked this place... I mean this post makes a lot of sense. What is happening in this place. I feel panicked.

It's not a good thing, but it also shouldn't be shocking. Any place where people are seeking serious help and answers to extremely difficult personal problems, some of those people will up grappling with suicide.

I’m a 22-year-old female who has had a friendship/relationship with my ex-boyfriend’s cousin for the past two years. My ex was extremely abusive emotionally and sexually exploited me, and caused extremely toxic relationship traits such as lying, threatening suicide, cheating, and coercing me into exploitative situations when I was 18-20. I sparked a friendship with his cousin who helped me out of that situation. I left the abusive situation, and started a loving friendship with his cousin. I was in a vulnerable place, and enjoyed all the positive attention, but as the months went on I started self-sabotaging our friendship because it was too good. I felt I didn’t deserve it. This sparked fights, which he told me he would not stick around for, as he’s dealt with fighting his whole life. Two years in, fighting has become a regular, daily occurrence because of me. I use him as a way to beat myself up emotionally. He tells me he can’t talk to me, I’m emotionally abusive, and he feels alienated and suicidal because of me. This makes me react emotionally, and causes my cycle of self-abuse to reignite, and my longings for suicide to reveal itself. I cannot live with myself knowing I made another person feel like that. But I use it to make my self-misery even worse. He has been nothing but supportive and helpful in trying to help me with these issues for two years. I’ve sought therapy, read books, had good streaks of no fighting here and there. But I haven’t changed. If anything, I’ve gotten worse - and my threshold for misery and choosing misery increased because of my cycle of: obsessing over negative traits about myself, seeking validation in the form of arguments/crying to my friend, and using that fight as more fuel to ignite my self-hatred and extreme attachment to my self-image and how I affect others. So, the more fights and pain I’ve caused, the more fuel I have to hate myself. When we started being friends, I was in a really vulnerable spot as I’d just come out from emotional abuse, I’ve always had incredibly low self-esteem, and he was giving me an intense emotional bond that completely ripped the fabric of who my ex thought I was (worthless, etc.) But as his intense attention to me faded with time, I started getting in my head about him hating me and realizing I’m not what he said I was, thus beginning a self-fulfilling prophecy. He’s at the end of his rope, and I don’t blame him. I’m disgusted with the behavior I’ve chosen, and the misery over all the fights I’ve caused makes me suicidal and compounds the misery cycle even more. He’s told me I make him want to die, that I’m a burden and abuse people to fulfill my own prophecy of self-hatred, and he’s right. He draws parallels to me and my abusive ex (his cousin), and his other abusive ex’s and family members. He keeps telling me if I just stop, I can fix it, and he’ll forget about my past behavior. I am too attached, however, to the dread and misery I feel over my past mistakes. Every day I tell myself “it could’ve been 2 years of happiness instead, you chose this”, and the guilt and regret of that causes me to spiral into self-hate and causes fights later between my friend and I because of me being obviously upset and withdrawn. I honestly do not know how to live with myself, or continue the privilege of calling myself that persons friend when I am nothing but an abuser. It makes me not want to live anymore, and I think that is me trying to escape accepting that I have been abusive. I know I caused all of this. I’m so incredibly disgusted and upset with doing this self-fulfilling prophecy that I’ve actually provided solid reason for myself and others to hate me. After being abused for two years, I know exactly what he’s going through, and it makes me sick to my stomach I’ve turned into this person who abuses others. This past weekend was especially awful, and I put him in situations that could’ve gotten him fired from work because I looked as if I had been crying, after we argued and he told me he wants to block me and never see me again out of anger, and forcing me to admit I’m selfish and don’t care about anyone because of how I treat him, calling me countless names and cussing, all to which I understand. This caused me to spiral and cry uncontrollably. I know I’m abusive. I’m posting this as a way that I can hopefully admit it to myself and accept it. But I’m so fearful over the pain and scars I’ve caused in our relationship, and I’ve made it so much harder on myself to recover and move on from being miserable after the behavior I displayed this weekend. I want to move on and do better, but I can’t let go of the pain of being seen as as an abuser. I don’t want him to see me that way, I want him to feel emotionally safe with me, and I worry I ruined that for good, even though he constantly says (and keeps saying), if I offer a sincere apology in the form of changed behavior, he’ll forget about the past. On another note however, he tells me relationships are like photos, and if you tear and crumble them, you can never fully get the creases out. I worry I can never repair the pain I caused. I’m obsessing over my regret and I don’t know how to accept the creases and move on. My self-hatred makes me want to lay in bed and never wake up again. This person was so good to me and I have brought nothing but turmoil into their lives. I feel weak and cowardly. I am seeking any advice for how to move on from this attachment to misery so as to not hurt him anymore, especially since I’ve given myself countless reasons to be miserable and feel awful about myself. Thank you for reading.

I guess my problem with these sorts of things is that my soul is so utterly anhedonic, nothing in the bible touches my heart. It's just like reading this long cryptic text I have no real interest in. I have one friend who swears that Jesus prevented his suicide, though.

It's important to embrace reality. Suicide does not lead to truth. A lot of users confuse Mahasamadhi and the concepts of infinite consciousness with death and try to bypass life to get to it. That's an error. His posts remind me of Soonhei. RIP waveintheocean.

I really wish people would be careful while trying to find the 'Truth', especially when psychedelics are involved. Because your insights can be completely misinterpreted which can slowly send you in a downward spiral toward depression and suicide. You can go on train of thought which goes only one direction, which is down. It's important to stay grounded in reality. Make sure your insights actually have some kind of basis and fundament to it. Take baby steps, don't try to aim for full enlightenment immediately. It's like when people just learn to drive they immediately want to drive a sportscar with 2000horsepower and test its limits, while on drugs. The chances if you getting hurt are extremely high. Cross-check your insights with other experienced and grounded people. And if you feel you are on a downward trajectory, seek real help.

1/4/2022 I tried to meditate for a half-hour and twenty minutes afterward with differing success in the ability to stay focused away from my thoughts, internal images, and feelings and on the direct experience of reality at the time. ''I resurfaced a close memory from about two days ago with having a long talk and walk with one of my close friends now about various social, cultural and political topics in the country that we both live in and our differing views on them, and during the course of that talk and walk I could distinctively feel the stink eyes, the contempt, prejudices, and biases at moments that my friend forwarded towards me as a person, the known history that I shared with him and with my views, viewing me in not such a good a light as a person and my views that I have towards various social and cultural topics here, I can only judge by this unpleasant experience that I had with him that the more you know about someone, his history, who and what he is and how he became to be as he is, if you are at differing stages of consciousness, the more likely is that they come to hate, not like you, have prejudices, biases, and hatred towards you. I can judge and guess with in regards to how long I know my friend and his views as to him being a solid middle or upper stage Blue consciousness level type with a not yet fully digested Red shadow due to the way I noticed his surfaced emotions of anger and contempt in his facial expressions and physical edginess and restlessness in his body movements and of course of how that amounts to regarding his views and feelings towards the society and the world that he lives in is an absolutist in the moral sense, heavy-handed Christian conservative, reactionary and uncomfortable, in reaction, backlash, denial , and reversal mode against of up until now established and some current trends and paths of development in modern societies, especially societies undergoing again that process of modernization like some of the Balkan countries, and a wish and desire on his part to stop them, reverse most of them up until now and those yet to come and return back and start rebuilding towards some romanticized and idealized version of the past - an ultra version of conservatism here in his case. Of course, I also had some undigested anger and contempt towards my friend with the way interpreted some of his comments and remarks regarding me and some quickly drawn stereotypes and insensitive, mean jokes regarding my family members that I again felt were directed towards me as a way of mocking me with no clear empathatic feeling I felt coming from him and emotional intelligence that comes with his stage of development consciousness wise and showing contempt to me from a superiority complex position in regards to his own academic success, beliefs, habit patterns, and work methods and ethics that led to it and my own bogging down, underperformance and underachievement in contrast to his in regards to my studies of sociology and where I currently am at with them and I felt that on his part as a way of mocking me that my indepedntly formed beliefs that I am trying to independently hold as a person as I see them as authentically and spontaneously formed in regards that they came out of my own most deeply felt emotions and thoughts not influenced by external pressures or demands to conform to the rest of societies expectations of me in regards to experience own views on my own life, society that I live in and reality and life as a whole that they are the ones that led me to this path and state that I am currently at in and point in life. That's why I am heavily considering and weighing in my own mind that even if this friend is my next-door neighbor and friend since childhood and one of the persons in the last few years that I hung out with the most with, that I can't expect to have a good, pleasant long time chatting with him anymore due to his personal flaws due to his consciousness stage level and beliefs and that I have slowly but surely find new close friends which I can see more eye to eye to on most topics, and that of this friendship to be truly trustworthy, close and flourish can't be the case because of the differences of consciousness level and stages and values and worldviews that go with them, and so thus feel a need to scale it down a bit and lower and lessen the degree of seeing my friend even though we are close and nearby to each other and to keep in touch and contact with him but lessen the degrees when and how often do I see him and hang out with him and go in an active, slow but steady search in finding new friends. The thing that I resurfaced and was most revelatory for me regarding him as a person and his feelings and thoughts towards me and emotional intelligence and level of care, worry, concern, and empathy for me and his view of me as a person and what I am worth, level of the value that I have and meaning to him as a relatively close, long acquaintance and friend was when I hadn't been in contact with anyone two months ago, he assumed, after a couple of days and weeks, because of the prior hard emotional states that I had shared with him that I had, that I had committed suicide and sort of gave up on messaging me, calling me, asking anyone from my family and friends or sending me or them messages of where I am or am I alright or is everything fine with me since I am not answering my phone or responding to messages for two weeks approx. and waited on the news, that the only use he saw in me was to go outside with me and get out of the house to have someone to talk to in order not to stay locked in the home where he was bored and annoyed. And several people reacted in a way I didn't expect them to and some, in turn, felt offended and thought in turn that I deliberately ignored them or trolled them by not responding to their messages and calls and have cut off contact with me and don't want me to be friends with them anymore. But this story and event entry I will leave for the next or another journal entry.''

Dam RIP. I wonder is this an attempt to bypass the suffering of being a human and going straight to the truth? During suicidal times of my life I wondered why shouldn't I just commit suicide and go straight to the truth and then simply restart the game and bypass this unnecessary suffering and torment. This reminds of @SoonHei. On the surface he seemed to be a happy and integrated guy, but I wonder why both of them felt the desire/need to commit suicide. Maybe this is mahasamadhi, a conscious choice to leave the body? One thing I can say from experience is the desire to help other people and share spiritual insights etc may be rooted in a desire to transcend one's own suffering. So they try their best to help others with the hope that they may in turn help themselves. I think he thought death was the path to bliss. It's tough because I also believe this, but I know you can experience divine bliss and peace without death so I don't feel an argue to off myself, but maybe if you haven't experienced that you would see that as a viable option?

I want to share with you that WaveInTheOcean, user of this forum, my best friend, soul-twin and partner through many rounds, has died. He committed suicide on the 8th of december. He shared a great deal of insights, advice, trip-reports and good vibes in here and I know many other users have expressed gratitude towards him and some have reached out to him in private messages. I believe he was a big part of this place. I can not tell you, why he choose to end his life. This post is extremely difficult for me to write and I feel like nothing I could say would perfectly capture what has happened. I know he had trouble sleeping during long periods and was deeply tormented by this and I know he have had suicidal thoughts periodically through many years. It is so difficult for me to comprehend this, because if anyone loved life, it was WaveInTheOcean, and if you have read any of his writings in here, you will know. He was the most beautiful expression of love and he shared it with so many. He had so many friends and was close with his family, I know he met with people and had conversations on the phone up until the last day. He knew he was loved, I am sure of it, however, he still made this decision, and no matter how many times i try to turn it around, looking at it from different perspectives, it was his decision to make. The last thing he wrote in here was: "Truth you don't find. Truth finds you. Sooner or later. What you then do, no one knows. If you knew, it would already have found you." Since all of the days I knew him, he was fascinated about discovering the Truth. It could be a pain in the ass but I also loved that about him. He was the smartest and most openminded person you could imagine. He shaped my personality and my life in such ways that I will be forever grateful. He discovered life, he discovered love and now he has also discovered death. I love him so much and I will do so for ever, I hold him in such deep admirations that it must go through all times and spaces. Not too long a go someone narrated one of his trip-reports and made it into a beautiful video. I want to share that one with you: And also one of the songs he used to like: