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Someone here replied to Someone here's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
@Dodo suicide is the result of disconnection with god. That's the only reason. When and if you lose every hope you have in your life ..there is only one door that you can knock for help, and that door is gods mercy . -
@Someone here all the other questions I feel afraid to answer I don’t want to encourage any ideas of positives from suicide
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@Someone here society conditioning leads to the most depression and suicide. The spirit has given up hope completely. some say you don’t need hope, they don’t realise that hope is underneath it all
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Stuff said in this thread: "Suicide is delusion", "suicide is wrong", "suicidal people don't care about others", "suicidal people have misunderstood", "suicidal people are identified with illusions", "they understimate", "why don't they just try something new?", "reality has infinite potential for happiness for everyone", "they are in self-denial", "they self-hate', "suicide is corrupted sense of love", "suicide is denial of reality", suicide is because of fear", "suicide is because of hate", "suicide is not truth". Do you notice a mistake with all that stuff? Try to find the mistake which you are doing.
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aetheroar replied to SQAAD's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
This is not called anything, it’s my direct experience. Spontaneous awakenings could be explained as concepts overpowering other concepts which causes the momentary experience of disillusionment. For instance, if someone was utterly depressed yet they really yearned for mystical experiences, they could be on the brink of suicide (the edge of releasing the self and all beliefs) and the awakening would be the actual experience of the dropping of beliefs. The belief that death would bring a mystical union with God would trigger an extrapolation of that idea the moment it was prioritized over continued life in the body. All awakenings, mystical or otherwise, can be explained by the release of belief systems and a restructuring of perception. If one has no belief systems to begin with, there’s only the delimited mind (infinite space/consciousness/sound/etc.) with nothing to extrapolate towards infinity. This is why Enlightenment has always been the case and why God Realization is not full awakening. -
Yes Suicide is an expression of love but in a corrupted sense. Suicide is a denial of reality. This denial is due to fear, and hate. Suicide is a form of protection. Because the individual hates reality, and believes themselves powerless to change their reality they deem the only solution is to flee from it and the ultimate escape is death. Love is truth. Suicide is not truth, but it is an expression of what the individual BELIEVES is true. It is an act of love out of self-preservation but is based on delusion.
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I was suicidal the last couple of days. Right now i feel a little better. Actually the only comfortable thought that i have during the periods of depression is that i can kill myself so all of that will end, so that gives me some reliefe to move on. Since everything is love that means that suicide is also love right? Ofcourse i am not advocating suicide and i am aware that suicide comes from scewed interpretation of reality.
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@Leo Gura Hello Leo Gura! I thought about doing this post for a long time and decided to actually make it. If you have got suicide messages or anything negative about this video I am sad to hear that, but NOW it is finally come time for me to tell my own opinion about this whole case. People get confuced about spirituality all the time and your content can't be somehow special that it wouldn't make that happen. Only reason you have 50k views on your videos and over 1 million followers is that you teach something for us. And if you would stop doing that, then what is the point you existing as "Leo"? Your biggest dream has been to have knowledge of everything and teach people on the way. If you stop doing that then you could just straight go to cave to do your psychedelics ALL ALONE. I am not to hate, but actually youtube, books and other media are full of basic level spirituality and self-help and your videos are just one thing more to this totality. Reason that I have followed the content is, because "Leo's" way of presenting things has always been crystal clear and very holistic. Contemplate which one is more dangerous. A) People get confuced about solipsism, get sad and suicidal and end up understanding that thing wrongly. B) People get confuced about solipsism, get sad and suicidal and end up understanding that thing rightly. (Actually if in this case solipsism would be the best thing ever, there could be decreased amout of sad people after integrating what you said) Remember that if you leave this whole case too open people would get even more suspicious about your words and I guess that this is thing that no one would like neither you nor the people that will live their life in falsehood. Why won't you tell us what was the exact reason to delete that video and why wouldn't you just put that video to your blog so those who are more interested about your content could actually watch it. You have published many other high tier teaching and if in this video something horrible happened then know that this was predictable to happen sooner or later and it could have happened with any other video as well. There is always chance to put high tier video behind paywall and that could also benefit actualized.org financial situation and you could make this everything more broad, have paid moderators, have paid content creators and source reseachers for your videos. The paywall would ensure that people who really are into that content would pay for it and therefore there would be less people who would take these things wrongly. Please concider this, becasue as you have said everyone needs to be open for feedback and you taking action in this would be pretty important for your followers that even you take good feedback. <3 Concider also that do you want to have people having false information on your forum harming other lives or more conscious forum. People will continue talking about solipsism on this forum unless you change rules that its not allowed to talk this topic, but that would make you actually look like a clown. You can only provide high tier teachings for your followers and you don't have any chance to know how it is taken today, tomorrow or after "Leo's" death. Following video has also pretty good points about this case. Comment that had good point about this case. Also there could maybe be rank system in forum that would block newbies to not see hidden content unless they are promoted. That would guarantee that your knowledge wouldn't cause harm, but also that your knowledge wouldn't drain into the well without any benefit. -joNi- Your passionate follower and the one that would be interested helping you on your forum by being moderator for example : )
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While I agree with everything in this post....its too rational. When you deal with people attached to emotion...rationality rarely works. The main cause of depression is self-denial and self-hate. The self-esteem (respect for self) has reached zero. Suicidal people are the most dangerous people around because if you have no respect for your own life, then you have no respect for any other life. Not saying you will harm others if you are suicidal, but you won't really care if you do. The interesting thing about suicidal thoughts and feelings is like anything else it is a STATE. There are many people who have attempted suicide and survived who regretted it, were glad they survived, and are living happy productive lives. It is just a momentary state through which people take action. Suicide is a result of delusion, but like all delusions it feels real and thus logic alone won't snap them out. You first have to reach them emotionally, before logic will make sense to them.
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I think suicide is the result of deeply misunderstanding reality. People who are suicidal are completely identified with illusions, which makes them suffer. They deeply underestimate realitys capacity for joy, happiness, love, fulfillment. They think they figured it out, reality ist just unfair, etc. While in truth, reality is deeply loving. If I would get suicidal one day, to the point of killing myself, why wouldn't I just try something new out? Instead of killing myself, give up my current job and all my posessions and move to india to become a monk for example? Why not just try something new? You can always kill yourself later, istn't it? Or instead of killing yourself, you could try out some psychedelics like 5-Meo and go on a journey to discover absolute reality, why not just give it a try? You can always kill yourself later... OR you could go out clubbing to learn socialization and dating, I mean - you have nothing to lose, haven't you already given up your life? Why not give it a try? Or you could try seriously helping other people, for example go to africa and help build the infrastructure there, do the work that is needed etc. Or you could get a dog, get a cat, go to a therapist, etc, etc, etc. Reality has infinite potential for happiness. Even for the most depressed of its members. To depressed people their depression seems to be uncurable. But have you really tried to cure it? What have you changed about the way you live? Have you tried all the examples I mentioned above? Have you tried dancing freely, have you tried adopting a child in need of someone who cares, have you tried starting a new hobbie, have you tried learning a new language together with other people, have you tried visiting a self help group for suicidal people, what have you tried? It isn't much, is it? If you're going to kill yourself anyways, at least try the things I mentioned above before you do it. You have nothing to lose, you can always kill yourself afterwards.
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@Yarco There is a wider context to this, the UK has a long history of racism and violence stemming from that racism, both from normal people and police. There gave been many cases in the past where black people have been murdered for being black. Also been ostracised from society or just generally harassed, attacked etc especially in regard to football, as in it would be normal for football fans to attack any black person they see. Today it has improved a lot but I think Britain sees itself as a country that tackles racism and as such, you could argue that they may overreact to an incident like this but its almost like they're making an example out of the guy. It may look harsh and may even be harsh but within the context any acceptance of this where you let this kind of thing fester can have real world consequences. The other point with the politicians, in the UK there has definitely been one if not two politicians murdered in the last couple of years by people that have tweeted hateful comments at them. This is a fine line because there has to be criticism of public figures but I think there's a line between that and actual hate speech that could lead to something worse. There's also the factor of really affecting someone and being a cause fir them commiting suicide, which has also happened. I get what you're saying in that you should be free to say what you want, but these a directed comments that the recipients see. If you're talking to your friends you can say whatever, but if you're directing comments like 'hope you die bitch' to the actual person that would be the equivalent of calling them and saying it, or leaving notes at their house or in public places, potentially even worse as the whole world can see them forever. Also UKs not that bad, I've lived here all my life and never paid a TV 'loicense' (we don't talk like that ?)
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I think you are totally right on that one. We are being so attached to the depressed state/depressed perspective that we can't let it go. If we wouldn't care, we would let it go, but we are caring so much about staying in the depressed state, that we build a whole persona and story around it so it can become stronger. Thats how powerful attachments are, being obsessively attached to something can literally destroy your life. Thats why practicing detachment and letting go of things consciously is a very powerful technique. Its very interesting, that sometimes the ego would rather lead itself to suicide, compared to letting the negative identity go, and letting go of negative attachments.
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Sometimes I feel like when depressed, it is not that we don't care, but that we care so much that we are unwilling to drop the seriousness obsession with how much we care; so much that that is what we focus on the entire day non-stop constantly with extreme work ethic, focus, and diligence on our dire mental health. It is what we see all day. We care so much that we are willing to try anything to make things better, even if that means turning to drugs, turning to wild sex with random people, turning to speeding, turning to stealing, turning to hitting, turning to yelling and calling people names, willing to stay up all night. We care so much we contemplate suicide because that is just another thing we could try, another state of mind to play with to see if that will make things better; if we tell ourselves that this is the worst, this is the bottom of the barrel, if this, a way like procrastination or a way of having no plan B, that maybe this will get some sort of idea, reconciliation to pop into our head, something to make things better. We care so much about feeling better that we are willing to quit school, quit our jobs, play video games all day, go for our passions, make music, write books, chase after the dream partner, etc. because we want to see if that will work. ... I guess I need to explore some more on the not caring.
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One of the main reason why, you can't think anything else just about suicide, because you are stuck in a negative depressed paradigm. Your paradigm is valid, we don't dismiss how bad you are feeling right now. But remember, just as others said it is just one paradigm from the many. You see no way out, because you think from your current paradigm. You can absolutely shift and change your paradigm, that way you can start to see other possibilities that you can use to feel better. Right now you need to be a little bit selfish, concentrate on yourself, give love to yourself, and only then you have a greater possibility to change situations in the world. If you really struggle and you really think that you can't do it alone, search for help. There is nothing wrong to search for some professional help. If you can't afford or if you really don't want to go to a psychologist or a psychiatrist, you can call a suicide hotline.
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Hardkill replied to Tudo's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
I really don't think that gurus like Leo are saying that you are actually in some kind of simulated reality or virtual reality world like how they have portrayed it in The Matrix movie series or in any kind of sci-fi shows/movies. I hope you understand that because no one in their right mind would want anyone including yourself to commit suicide or hurt yourself in anything. Leo talk about this in his vid "The Dangers Of Misapplying Spiritual Teachings." Though I will say that what you are asking is a valid question and has been something that I've always thought about for a long time and I still haven't fully comprehend it to this day. However, think from what I understand about the idea of you being in a "dream" is that you're not actually in a dream, but you always start out with a low level of perceiving reality in your awakened state. However, the more you work on developing your level of consciousness and enlightenment then the greater your perception of true reality will become. Yet, if you are dead then you may not be in a "dream" anymore, but you also will not be able to perceive ANY reality AT ALL to ANY DEGREE, not even a shred of it. If you are in coma or in some state of unconsciousness then you really will be stuck in a literal perpetual dream state. -
The only way out i can think of is suicide
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axiom replied to Baotrader's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
For siloed consciousness (i.e. you as a human), physical pain happens whenever you push closer to the boundary of self. Pain lets you know where those boundaries are. For example, in the movie The Truman Show, Truman's emotional pain massively increased the closer he got to escaping the dome. A hand held over a flame for long enough will be maximally painful because pretty quickly it will no longer be a hand, and eventually it will burn away into nothing at all. Physical pain is only troubling to the individual, and only as long as the individual believes itself to be there. From a higher consciousness, physical pain is on the same ontological level as a chair, a table, an oak tree, or a cloud passing in the sky. It is possible to observe pain from the outside, and react to it as you might react to a cloud passing in the sky. It is within everyone's grasp to experience this phenomenon directly with strong-determination-sitting meditation (SDS). Actually, SDS can completely recalibrate your sense of what it means to suffer by enormously increasing your emotional and physical pain tolerance. In so doing, if kept up, then eventually (and inevitably) it leads to total bliss, total love, total compassion. Suicide is pointless. You'll just find yourself somewhere else, and you'll have to deal with all of this again (and again, and again). No fear, enlightenment eventually comes to everyone. EDIT: Just realised this thread goes back to 2018... -
@Leo Gura if you think this post is too negative, just close it. I just want to have an honest discussion. I have been having suicidal thoughts after quite a lot of meditation. I am beginning to wonder if suicide is better for some people? Some pp are in extreme suffering. They put their body under tonnes of pain just to make money to live by days. Isn't it better to kill yourself if you live in such conditions? And after my self-inquiry i have realized the reason those people don't commit suicide is because they are afraid of the physical pains they would have to go through to meet death. Most countries don't allow guns anyway. If people are honest i bet most will admit they wish they would never have been born into this miserable world. If anyone is angry at the last sentence feel free to throw that on me
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Thursday 24/03/2022 06:45 My desire is too strong that I cannot kill myself. But the stronger my desire for sex, the more painful my experience. The more I consider suicide the more I suffer, bringing up the pain of unrequited desire. Considering suicide is also painful because of the feelings of shame that inevitably come from it. I'm royally fucked either way, in all ways but literal. This suicidality is similar to but not identical to September. I had to painfully see back then that 'I don't really want to die'. The way I'm feeling now is more similar to January, more specifically. "I don't really want to die" experientially translates to "my desire is extremely strong (and it clings to life)". Choice however does not dwell in the feeling. There appear to be two choices here. One, kill yourself. Two, suffer with the desire painfully, for who knows how long and for how often. I am familiar enough with this painful desire that I may have the capacity to not be swayed and move ahead with what's logical. I know that if I lack such a capacity though I'll hate myself again. I won't be swayed by fear of re-incarnation either. What I'm addicted to is this juice of being helpless and ruminating —— I'm quite squeamish at the sight of blood and I'm scared of doing something to my body that will cause damage should I fail. I'm trapped with nothing I can do. Why wasn't I given the right to end my life? And what's this feeling? I can swallow sodium nitrite just fine and that process will be painless, but its my feelings which are the issue. Many times before, something like this shame has cropped up. It kills my horniness in an abrupt way. I can be "conscious" of something, as far as that word can mean anything, but that doesn't mean I'm given a morsel of control or reduction in suffering. I feel conscious of some feeling relating to death, shame and decay which is wretched and terrible, like a bouquet of dead flowers. How evil a thing there is! It could be described as like a negative libido in inception.
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WelcometoReality replied to Preety_India's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
I think it's great that your willing to see these flaws and take action toward healing. Shaming is more negativity which creates a neverending loop or in the worst cases it ends in self hatred and suicide. Letting go of these feelings will instead create a neverending loop of positivity into love and self transcendence. -
context we are not super close. but i do talk with him from time to time. we sometimes have some enjoyable conversations, but his mental state is off the rails. three weeks ago he attempted suicide. then the other day he called me when he was in the middle of a crisis. and two days ago, he simply sent me, out of nowhere, a picture of his wrists covered in blood. he had cut himself. he said he had a relapse because of his ex. i was in shock. i only send him something like: "i'm not the right person to help you in this moment. you need specialized help asap." this made me realize that i have to distance myself from him -- for my own mental health. my plan i thought about distancing myself in a gradual way. but especially after that picture he sent, he crossed a line that i don't think i should tolerate. so basically he's a person that i don't want to have any contact in my life anymore. so maybe it'd be better to send him a text explaining respectfully -- yet firmly -- why i decided to distance myself from him. and if he insists on interacting with me, i might take more serious measures (e.g., blocking). any thoughts? thanks!
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Almost no mental illnesses are terminal. Terminal doesn't just mean life-long. The only mental illnesses that are terminal I can think of are Dementia / Alzheimers and severe depression (the latter assuming suicide is pretty much inevitable.) If you're defining a terminal mental illness as just one you've got for life, that's most of them. Schizophrenia, autism, anxiety. Depends on the severity of it I guess. I guess technically I'm already probably living with multiple terminal mental illnesses according to this definition, but not bad enough that I want to bother seeking help. I guess the first steps would be therapy and medication.
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Preety_India replied to Preety_India's topic in Society, Politics, Government, Environment, Current Events
You don't judge them. But Indian society does. In fact a rape victim is sometimes encouraged to commit suicide Because in the Indian mindset a woman with no husband has no identity. A woman violated is better off dead. A son who doesn't earn the salary of a doctor is a worthless person and a failure in the eyes of the parents. A single mother is a brainless slut who gave her virginity to the wrong man and deserves lovelessness and loneliness and every bit of suffering coming to her. Any person in Our society who doesn't satisfy expectations that are set ridiculously high are to be shamed and judged and abandoned into anonymity and should deserve nothing but disdain, contempt and suffering. How will you feel in such a society? That's why the suicides Half of the suicides don't get reported. -
To me it seems that the only way to know what death is or what comes after death is by actually dying. You can't know it unless you experience it .is that correct ? Can you become conscious of what death is without needing to commit suicide ? P.S I'm talking actual physical death not some flimsy ego death or whatnot .
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The picture is a call for help. Distancing is likely to worsen the condition. Suicide often but certainly not exclusively, comes from loneliness. So i'd personally want to do my best to get them help but also tell them they can't send pictures of that anymore, they can't do that to themselves anymore, as its horrific and they REALLY NEED HELP RIGHT NOW. I'd go and find a few specialists or counselors, get a few numbers and even make a call myself telling a professional about the picture I was just sent. Maybe even the police if it was advised. If you want to be with them through the process that's a different thing, it sounds like you are not comfortable with that, and so you've got to respect yourself too. Your boundaries, what you will and won't do. I once had a friend with Asperger's, some aspects of that friendship I loved but I had to set strict limits on how much time I would spend with them, as they tended to draw me in to their life more than I wanted. Its about finding a balance, but definitely make a couple of calls and tell someone about that photo.
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