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My story: My spiritual journey began at the age of 20 when I had a 3 month episode of severe mental illness. Every moment was a struggle. I tried therapy and medication. In the brink of utter hopelessness I had a monumental epiphany which revealed the existence of the spiritual path, meditation, consciousness, and the hope for a better future. I spent the next 6 years on a spiritual mission. I became deeply engrossed in the spiritual process. Hours of meditation, solo retreats, psychedelics, classic personal development, etc. I was on a completely different plane of existence as everyone else and I was happy as ever. I was making rapid progress. I went to Costa Rica and met an enlightened shaman who told me I was one of 10,000 people who would awaken the world. Of course this fed my ego a bit but also gave me a sense of purpose to stay on the path. I never forgot the episode of mental illness I had that started this whole thing. I come from a family history of bipolar and clinical depression. I have no doubt that I have one these. But it seemed as though somehow I was funneling that vulnerability into massive spiritual progress. I would go through my mind and try to think of situations that could possibly trigger me back down and I couldn’t. I had multiple awakenings and deeply fulfilling experiences. I felt like I was living a blessed life. By the end of those 6 years I felt like I truly had detached from everything. But I was wrong. In the spring this year I received an offer for a dream job. Let me start off by saying that my career as an Engineer was never my passion. It has always been a means to an end. However, I learned to enjoy most aspects of it. I saw a job as a necessary minor evil that I had to work around just like everyone else. I was at peace with that. I got a rare offer for a stress free job with the DOT, one that would give me lots of flexibility, freedom, meeting new people, working from home, etc.. it was basically a stress free job that could allow me to focus more on other things and maintain a healthy balanced life. Concurrently, my current company was in the midst of placing me on a new project, another supposedly good opportunity. This one involved being able to work on my own. There was less flexibility and I couldn’t work from home, but I believed this would make me more disciplined. My intuition told me to go with the first opportunity even though I believed it might make me “lazy” or have less “spiritual progress.” I put in my 2 week and felt an excitement that put me on top of the world. I should have stuck with that intuition. But instead I quit the new job a week in and went back to my old job. I made a knee jerk reaction. I realized later that any new job, no matter how good it is, won’t be exactly how you imagine it to be, especially at first. I had made a mistake I couldn’t reverse. It took about two days before I became conscious of my mistake. It hit me like a ton of bricks and then a continuous descent down a cliff. I became flooded with a hellish state of dread and regret. For weeks I fought moment after moment to be present. I kept telling myself that there was a reason for this pain, that in order to fulfill my destiny of awakening the world, I needed to get through this. During those times I had beautiful awakening experiences. But mostly it was hell. When it was time to go back to my old job, I continued to stay as present as possible. Fortunately, they didn’t have much for me to do at first, so I sat in my car and continued the fight. When it was time to do tasks I still stayed present. But life happened. Eventually I got emotionally crushed because it was impossible for me to simultaneously handle all the negative emotions and life itself. I started taking an anti depressant called Zoloft. It went against all my spiritual beliefs, but at that point nothing mattered. The medication takes about 3 weeks to start working. In the meantime I continued to cycle between extreme low and high consciousness states. It all pinnacled in multiple near suicide attempts. When my parents saw the rope burn around my neck they called my psychiatrist who ordered me to go to the hospital. There’s a lot I could say about my 3 weeks in a mental hospital. I’ll start with the cons. I had to eat garbage food. Institutional food. Little to know greens. Just what you’d expect. I had little to no outdoor time. Fifteen minutes a day inside a cage. That’s all I got. Now here’s the pros. There’s a lot of camaraderie. Everyone there is struggling through something and it really helps to have that sense of constant social connection. It’s like being back in college. There’s also doctors and therapists who come around and ask how your doing, which is nourishing. All in all, I think there’s a lot we can do to improve our mental hospitals. I think we could save a lot of people who would otherwise be crushed. There were people there with high potential if they were only supported properly. While I was in there they put me on another medication. It was an anti psychotic called Olanzapine. This drug is very powerful. It essentially rid me of my overwhelming negative emotions. My mind finally had a sense of control. I’m very grateful for it because it has probably saved my life. It’s also very humbling to admit I need these drugs, but I’ve come to realize what they are: tools. Some people say anti depressants and anti psychotics are like taking insulin. The difference is you can’t consciously control your insulin levels, but you can learn to consciously control your mind. Except when you can’t. Because maybe your mind is running way out of control. That’s when these meds can be of great value. With the help of the meds and the social connection, I left the hospital in a better place. I’ve come to realize where I’m at right now. I know that I have a lot of inner work to do before I can even think about go off the meds, doing psychedelics, retreats, fasting, solitude, or any of the things that I used to be able to do. I’m gonna keep going because what else is there to do. I hope to one day look back and be grateful for this time in my life. I have since taken a step back from watching Leo’s content because it makes me sad. But hopefully one day I can get back there too. I believe there is a reason and an unfolding, to be revealed to those who never give up. Please feel free to post any thoughts or questions.

What a question. I suppose the same way some people don’t even know they are depressed; at some point, your psyche adjusts. You only have a handful of choices, after all. Suicide, obsessively thinking about it, trying to accept that life is misery at the moment, blatant escapism, etc. as someone who has had (diagnosed) depression for a few years now, accepting and saying “I'm depressed" rather than saying “I have depression” is one of the worst mistakes someone trying to overcome any mental illness can possibly do. Depression is no more a part of who your are than any other illness is. You need to believe that it can and will get better. I truly promise you that it will. But, with that being said, it is going to take some serious determination on your part. Just don’t ever give up. So, in summary, it is entirely possible to accept depression as a part of yourself, but it is one of the biggest mistakes you could ever make. I truly hope this helps. Just keep telling yourself that it will get better (as corny and cliche as that saying is) and that accepting that you are depressed rather than having depression is going to make you situation worse. And if you arent already, please talk to somebody. I hope you get better

I want the NO BULLSHIT explanation of what really happens after suicide. Is such information possible to find? Or is doing it the only way to find out. I've scoured the web and don't find anything!! All I get is modern mental health professionals talking shit. I want the actual spiritual explanations of what happens I’d like it if you could share with me some stuff online from mystics talking about this. Many different sources so I can compare and see if there’s some truth in what they say and some common thread. I need to research more before I make a decision so if you guys could help I’d much appreciate it, thanks

@Leo GuraI understand that life can be very hard especially health issues, I my self have multiple mental ilnesses and still seriously consider suicide every couple of days but what I don't understand is that you did like 300 trips and you meditated a lot, how on earth such things still affect your happiness, aren't you supposed to be invinciple . Maybe your relatively low baseline is the problem, maybe this shows greatly the limitations of the psychedelic approach Or is it that suffering cannot be practically transcended by humans?

Is this the laziest solution to enlightenment?

Okay, i'm gonna do it thanks. It has to do with my emotions, any negative emotion increases it. Although with my condition I think I need more like 2-4 hours per day of meditation for it to work enough, and then also some walking meditation on top of that. Its pretty bad, my body is already aging faster than normal, I feel like I'm dying I'll probably develop cancer soon if I don't do something to fix it. If I stop for a period of time of healing, the anxiety bounces back stronger than ever even after all that healing work like it was all for nothing, and if I stop for even a month, the anxiety becomes too overwhelming, I can't function properly let alone hold a job, suicide starts to become pretty attractive at that point. So i'm really gonna have to go all the way with this meditation work, even make some sacrifices of responsibilities so I can have more time to put into meditation.

@bloomer I should probably share my experience with autism. Sometimes it feels disempowering when I realize how much of my behavior it explains. It makes me feel like I'm not in control and free will is an illusion. This is reinforced by other people who are afraid of what they don't understand. No matter how hard I try to be good, I will inevitably be corrupt in some way from another perspective. I literally am good, but not all finite forms of love and goodness compute with one another, thus creating conflict. I spend most of my time isolated because I don't normally see value in interacting with other people. I have limited interests and people often bore me to death with small talk and day to gossip. If someone is trying to teach me something new about subjects like chess, psychology, emotions, philosophy, society, or something I find interesting, then I see value in interacting with them. I was bullied on several occasions as well. It stopped once I was around a few friends. Groups are simply too intimidating to attack. The kid without friends who sits isolated from others will often be bullied. This is how I naturally behaved, making me an easy target on so many occasions. Sometimes my literal interpretations would get me into trouble by making people think I'm a smartass. This includes the assistant principal. Unfortunately, the suicide rates are disturbing. I have been suffering from a mild form of depression for basically my entire life. I was never happy with my life as child. Maybe it would have been better if dad didn't flee the state to avoid paying child support. My life has pretty much always felt hollow and it makes it harder for me to find my purpose as well. I had lots of suicidal thoughts before, but I know I would never act on them. They have subsided. I could give more details, but I won't make this too long. I hope one day I find a way to cure the constant mild depression.

I think you're jumping to a conclusion. Stating the effects survival had on men and women does not in any way show you how you're supposed to behave. I can see this renouncing all power because I don't want to partake in this system (this is essentially suicide) or I can seek as much power as humanly possible because that's the nature of things (Genghis Khan path). Insights are beautiful, but don't take them as prophecy.

You sure about that man? I can think of countless examples of (primarily) men raping, killing, pedophilia, and committing suicide - because of (not explicitly) abstaining from masturbation and generally sexually repressing themselves. I think you've got rose-coloured glasses on and have no idea how elementary a body function like ejaculation is. The Catholic Church have been doing NoFap for thousands of years, and they are likely the #1 offender for sexually abusing children and women on the planet. I imagine doing it on a scale larger than criminal organizations like sex trafficking, or warlords in hellhole African nations.

@something_else Yeah, that's obnoxious as hell and clearly shows his sociopathy. The thing that's not even being said about this is that he was basically scamming desperate lonely Incels. Which is like scamming a suicidal person. I wonder how many people he scammed in this way committed suicide, or I can only imagine how pissed off they must be a woman-kind as a whole. The really ugly thing about this scam is that he's doing it via the girls, so the Incels don't understand that it's not the girl who's scamming him, it's a guy behind the scenes. But once they are scammed they will just blame the girl and contribute to this toxic anti-feminist ideology. When really it's Tate's toxic masculinity that's the true cause. As Tate says above, most girls are not so heartless as to scam guys like this. Basically what Tate did is use girls to monetize his massive sociopathy because girls would never be this exploitative naturally. Tate invented a method to use girls to laundry his sociopathy so that the victims never knew his face. Usually a sociopath cannot get too far into scamming people because his face becomes too well known to the victims. But in this case the girls were his front. Truly diabolical stuff from Tate. He shows zero awareness of the harm his actions cause.

@Leo Gura I received some other benefits from pickup: 1) better social skills: I was unable to make good guy friends and now I met 3 guys 2 weeks ago and we have become like best friends and we are each others wingmen. 2) don't give a f attitude: after getting rejected I became mentally stronger and don't think of suicide at all back then I felt suicidal when one girl rejected me but till now I have been rejected by 19-21 girls and I don't care lol feel alpha. 3) less fears: I used to be really intimidated by people especially dangerous looking men but not Anymore not as much as before. 4) learned better fashion: back then I used to look like a homeless teenager but after I started gaming I am taking more care of myself hence looking really professional. I still lack a lot of social skills but getting better.

So not only am I a loser, but a loser that loses more and more rep all the time. How easy it is to take it from a foolish and naive character like me, while probably giving false compliments or something. Behind my back, a gray picture is being formed in the minds of others about me. People will have so many false facts about me in their minds, I'll be ostracised from society completely all the time, and it will be hard to survive then. How can parents want their own child to suffer and ultimately fail in life, to commit suicide, to take away everything from it, to basically leave it with nothing, abuse it while making it dependent and then it basically really ends up the way they want it to end up. I always second guess myself, oh they must love me to finally let me sleep, but then it dawns on me that me falling asleep was beneficial for them to operate further, to harm me more. Of course I care about not being harmed physically, emotionally and socially. If I allow them to keep harming me, forgiving, why not just commit suicide and give them what they want straight away? Why suffer even more and help them grow at the cost of my life that would be a prolonged misery, because it is like they're eating me alive. Maybe I am just imagining this, but it could also be said that I am imagining that they are good to me when they are not and that they love me when they don't and that they care about my wellbeing when they do not.

Don't rob yourself of a potential life where things can get better. You have no idea how things could be, they can be better than you are able to imagine right now. Bad times are temporary, it doesn't mean you will have a bad life. If you are thinking of harming yourself in the immediate future or have plans please contact a suicide hotline for wherever you're from; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines If you need to talk or vent PM me, I think I could understand I've been where you're at.

Attention! All of the bellow mentioned is just a theoretical discussion and not a plan of action! I've been doing psychedelics for the last 4 years and had plenty of profound awakenings. Recently I begun to question the validity of all my trips and awakenings. What if an awakening is just hallucinations? When I’m tripping, I know absolutely that I’m God and playing my infinite game, but when I’m back to the dream I just can’t accept it. Is there a doubt free way to get the true answer and not only during a trip? I’ve been thinking about it and the only way I can think of is suicide. For example If I shoot myself in the head I would be 100% sure whether I’m God or all of this is just pure horseshit. What do you think?

@Lana Faye Hi! I used to take citalopram for a long time for depression, and olanzapine for a few weeks after an intense trip: suicidal delusions etc. I know how the olanzapine feels like. It was helful for me at the time, when the delusions and anxiety were at their worst, but the side-effects are pretty harsh. Are you still taking it? I recommend quitting the meds according the doctors advice and just a bit by bit... The withdrawal effects can be pretty brutal, especially with olanzapine. Overall, your experience sounds pretty familiar. For me it was mostly about suicide and self-harm... Intrusive thoughts and delusions, anxiety that I might just "lose control", "go insane" and kill myself. Stuff like that. It takes some time to sort these things out. There will be clarity and probably quite awesome insights coming as to what's went down and why these thoughts appeared. For me it was probably the most brutal and painful experiences I've ever had, but what I learned from it and insights I had has been so precious. In fact I'm starting to appreciate the whole experience. Really recommend psychotherapy, though only when you're ready and feeling stable enough with it. And from the spiritual side, A Course In Miracles was and still is pretty damn helpful for me. Though make sure you're ready and stable enough for that stuff too. Wishing all the best for you and your family! ?

Dude! That's because some leftist feminist did such a vicious expose of him that he lost his whole business, spiraled into depression, and killed himself. That's literally suicide by cancel culture. Not saying he was innocent but that expose was brutal. People don't appreciate how painful cancelation can be.

@Cathal hi! I quite liked the soup analogy. I’d also describe it as having local teeth anaesthesia - you don’t feel the pain while a dentist is fixing your teeth but later when you want to eat something your mouth feels weird, like it doesn’t belong to you, so food doesn’t bring any pleasure. I guess antidepressants act like emotional anaesthetic. At least for me. They do not fix the problem, they just numb the pain. The calmness is obviously artificial and the side effects are very distressing. Especially, cognitive damage, emotional blunting and inability to experience orgasm. It looks like I am a very sensitive person and the dosage the doctors prescribed was too much. They wanted to increase it and keep me at the clinic longer but I refused. I gradually decreased the dose and now off antidepressants for three days. Been vomiting, having diarrhoea but on the positive note I at least feel that my heart chakra is on again. Before it felt blocked. My ocd still stayed with me. Antidepressants just gave some time to learn not to identify with my thoughts. Sometimes my fears of going crazy and killing my son are still intense. Especially in the morning and when I am alone. You are right, I am afraid to lose control but the thoughts are very intrusive so I just give up battling them, cry and then go on with my mom responsibilities. I’d say I have Pure O revolving around the themes of responsibility, violence and existential matters. All connected to ego, craziness and death. I thought the root cause was my childhood trauma. My mom suffered from schizophrenia and committed suicide in front of me. Since then I have been scared of going crazy and was continuously told since teenager-hood that if my mom had it I am likely to develop it too. Other things related to death were that before I did abortion and later had miscarriage. Also the pregnancy with my son was filled with much stress and hospitalisations. When I was giving a birth his heart rate was dropping and I was losing consciousness while having much responsibility to still be awake and push because his life was dependent on me. Understanding all of this still do not help me with ocd although I thought it would. Acceptance of the intrusive thoughts without any judgement and further investigation like why on Earth I have this suffering and why Karma fucks me in the brain bring more results. Do you also suffer from OCD?

If you begin manipulating ordinary reality in your trips, that ought to convince you. Also, I advise against suicide, that would be a frivolous waste of your human life.

I see. That all makes more sense to me. Pickup coach Tom Torero committed suicide last year.

Because as with anything, you gotta do it with the right intentions. I think most people get better over time, not worse. But you have to keep in mind how bad they were when they started off. Of course there will be exceptions of people who only use it to get laid and don't improve character. It's not really that pickup grew my character, I had good character to begin with. But pickup rounded me out as a man and allowed for development opportunities. I don't know of any who have committed suicide.

If doing constant cold approach and dating leads to major growth of character then why there have been pickup/dating coaches who have become toxic or are still psychological messed up? Why have some committed suicide?

So Dr Robert Moore probably did not kill his wife and commit suicide but it's his wife who did so.

Except it doesn't - you can see depression skyrocketing and a lot of kids are suicidal as well. Traditional stuff doesn't seem to be enough to address complex mental health problems we have right now. We know that transitioning works for people with gender dysphoria, so why be so against it, when it is well documented that it works and no other method let alone traditional method work, and no data suggest that any other method would be anywhere near close as effective and succesful. There is no going back no matter how much you want to outlaw it or how much you want to make it impractical. Again, what you do is making a bigger black market for it , and people will have to move to other countries to have access to this medical treatment. You won't solve this problem ,you will just make a bigger problem + you will make it harder for people to try to treat this problem. Also its not like suddenly people will never ever mention these things ever again, more and more people will going to talk about these things, your idea won't and wouldn't stop any of it. I still don't understand how you see this "argument" or thought process sound. You want to make it so that children don't have any access to this, and then you don't provide any alternative, even though these children would be left with high depression and suicide rates. You don't solve any root issue with this, and at the same time you would take away the only well known solution/treatment regarding on this topic. Nowhere near as harmful compared to not providing any other alternative treatment to this problem.

No, I don't. How far would you give with that logic? Should we destroy all modern medical technology? The argument of "sometimes having too much option is bad" is only good or a sounding argument, if the alternative of "not having any or having less option" is a better alternative, but how could you argue that the lack of option in this case creates a better outcome , when all the relevant factors (suicide rate, depression) - still stays high among these people?

I don't have experience with BPD in my personal life. My best friend is a therapist who works mainly with BPD type patients though. I will take the liberty of sharing why I think he said that. I think he's just referring to the tendency to overreact to abandonment triggers and do something drastic like suicide, or reckless like drive drunk and crash. Overall this clinical type view of BPD and similar disorders makes me sad. It's like they are taking as much distance as they can from it. Viewing them as aliens almost. To be inspected in a lab coat. I kind of get why. If you don't dehumanize them, you might find out you have more in common with them than you would like. "selfishness, ..." What the fuck dude. These people are in massive pain and you're going to diagnose them with selfishness? From my understanding, hearing and reading about these things, there's a direct correlation between BPD and growing up with an emotionally immature, abusive parent. Usually the mother is an unsafe character that they can not form a healthy attachment with. They had to be afraid of the mother's mood swings. Nowhere to turn for safety and nurture. And then still psychiatrists want to put them in a box and say "something's inherently wrong with you", and give them very superficial therapy like DBT. It's a travesty.