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@Forestluv The nonrecontextability is kinda what I was pointing to / what he was pointing to. @Javfly33 Because nonduality.

You're in the stage where you're trying to grasp the truth with your mind, which is inherently confusing. You must instead ground yourself in experience, become the thing you're so confused about. It also doesn't hurt to learn the finer distinctions between the relative and The Absolute. Nihilism, as a result of learning about nonduality, only happens when you're trying to appropriate The Absolute (non-duality) within the relative (duality), by trying to fit an infinite object into your finite mind. I've tried to boil down this fallacy in another thread which I hope doesn't make things more confusing :

One idea I now got is that reality is the difference between something and nothing. It's all one nonduality. I will take a look at these videos by Leo again:

One clue to the question about something rather than nothing is that Leo said that reality is a perfect symmetry. Because otherwise, if it had some shape or substance it would only have that in relation to something else! So from a nonduality perspective reality is difference and nothing. Because nothing also lacks shape and substance. I will see if I can get more clues from Leo's video, but that's a pretty interesting explanation. It's the both something and nothing aspect I haven't grasped fully yet. It's a duality which again needs to be combined into nonduality.

Sure, they are around, to various degrees. I'm not gonna waste my time guessing what other people have realized. I will just stick to what I have realized. Infinite Consciousness But it is not other than Nothingness and not-knowing. Infinite Consciousness is not a thought. Your own experience contradicts this. You can keep telling yourself that, but there are many things you are not yet conscious of. I disagree. It's not superior per se. And it's still nondual. What I say doesn't contradict nonduality. It is nonduality, just at a very high degree. Modern psychedelics like 5-MeO-DMT and DMT are new. And just because people in the past used them doesn't mean their knowledge has reached your ears. It died with them. What I say fundamentally aligns with all mystical and spiritual traditions and teachings. It's just a question of breadth and depth of understanding. I know the Nothingness/Emptiness of which these Advaita and Zen teachers speak. But there's more beyond that. Your consciousness is the final arbiter of everything. Find out for yourself what is the case. I'm just pointing out things that you might otherwise overlook.

I don't know why, but I started to understand Nonduality way before watching Leo's videos or any other videos about it, I didn't even know that term back then. But during my later teens to early 20s, I just started to see that you can't seem to put things into strict categories, but they are on a spectrum. Like in chemistry, Metal and nonmetal. I saw that there isn't a strict boundary, but instead the elements gradually go from metal to nonmetal from left to right. Or with mental illnesses, no one has either just Depression or not, or ADHD or not, or OCD or not, or Autism or not (not really a mental illness). I just started to see how everything bleeds into each other. Then at about 21 I started using drugs (not just psychedelics, so I'll keep it short), not for Nonduality, but just because I was curious. But I surprisingly got insights from them, stimulants often made me contemplate things, where at some point I came to the conclusion that wishing or imagining for something to be different makes no sense, because everything just is the was it is, and it can't be any other was. During my dissociative drug abuse I became completely aware that I have no free will as this ego, I'm (my ego self) is just a part of the whole universe, which happens in a continious flow. You can't blame anyone including yourself, it completely destroyed the boundary between what I'm responsible for and what others are responsible for. It went so far that I just became completely aware all language, distinctions, basically our whole systeme in which we operate is a complete illusion, it completely breaks down when you investigate it deep enough, I'm aware that the words I'm typing here are also just nonsense which can only work within dualities. But this just made me feel very helpless, since I knew our whole thought systemes and languages are complete illusions, but we still have to use them. I couldn't say anymore what is my fault and what are other peoples faults. Doing something "good" didn't make sense anymore because that's also an illusion. However, I had a lot of puzzle pieces already, and finding Leo's videos about Nonduality helped me piece many of them together, like that there is an Absolute. love + hate = Love, good + bad = Good, free will + determinism = Will. But some things I still don't understand, besides deconstructing my ego to persue enlightenment, what should I do with that? How should I do good when everything is ultimately Good? I don't wanna use nonduality as an excuse to do "evil" things, but no matter what I will do, even if I go on the streets and shoot up Heroin, it is ultimately Good, since it's gods Will for the purpose to maximize Love. So this still makes me confused, and I don't know what to do about that. Thank you for reading this, I'd love to hear your opinions or suggestions.

To break through into the transpersonal stage may require a radically different approach than the usual spiritual practices. Nonduality teachings often have a different approach, and especially Jim Newman who I believe "learned" it from Tony Parsons, has a radical and nihilistic-seeming nonduality approach presented in this video:

Centering Prayer is more a meditation practice than it is a Prayer. It’s a practice which helps one to cultivate non conceptual awareness. Cynthia Bourgeault claims that the salvation Jesus taught was in fact the perception of nonduality--and she's becoming famous for how she backs up this claim quite reasonably, relying on the Bible, church fathers, and especially the Christian contemplative tradition.The notion of nondual Christianity doesn't originate with her, of course, but she's prominent as one of the more articulate voices making people aware of it today. In this new book, she teaches the basics of Centering Prayer as a way to the perception of noduality. It thus will go a bit deeper theoretically/theologically than the other numerous Centering Prayer books, while still serving as a basic introduction. And in the fascinating third part of the book, she analyzes the Christian mystical classic Cloud of Unknowing , to find in it a model for living with nondual consicousness.

I don't think any guru would say something like that. They might say "you suffer because you are under illusion (attachment, ego, etc.)", but suffering itself is definitely real and not an illusion. In fact the Buddha said "life is suffering" as his opening statement, so.. Suffering is not an illusion. Maybe it is in the final analysis, but the illusion is real and so the consequences are real in a certain sense, too. Not if one has truly understood nonduality. You don't walk around seeing all the suffering in the world and brush it off, saying "oh that's nice, that's good, nobody's suffering". Quite the opposite is true - you walk around seeing all the suffering, saying: "oh that fact is not good - it's suffering and it's real despite the fact that it is GOOD". Of course it is GOOD. But its suffering and suffering is real to those who suffer. The illusion is also Real, that is nonduality. Maya and Brahman are identical and so all the suffering is just as real as Brahman. If someone hears about Zen for the first time, they might think something like "oh well, apparently I'm the Buddha anyway and so I can do whatever I want to do! Time to wear filthy clothes, steal things, be selfish, be violent, I'm the Buddha, I'm enlightened, I'm God, I can do as I goddamn please!" - but that only shows, that one hasn't yet truly understood, because if you did understand and you really knew it to be true, you wouldn't have to say or do it! @Dodo But I understand the predicament. Depends on the person I guess. How much guilt is involved? You said she was like a mother figure, so maybe one feels guilty towards her and thinks that it is your duty to suffer, in order to... what - expiate? Would you feel guilty if you wouldn't take away her suffering? Observe this guilt, what is it? It also selfishness. So what are you to do? - Not to help is selfish and you feel guilty because of it. - To "help" doesn't happen out of love but out of the selfish desire to get rid of you guilt by expiating! So you always end up being selfish. And then you feel guilty for that. It's a perfect trap. All you can do is realize that the trap isn't real and that there's nobody trapped - and then what? Well then you realize that you can't do anything wrong. And so this question about whether to help this poor person or not has no right nor wrong answer.

..or in other words, here's a problem which you cannot solve simply by being present to the moment I want to present to you here something which happened to me in alternate reality (it definitely happened within consciousness and my awareness at least) which felt absolutely as real as me typing right now. Imagine there is a woman (now every representation here was probably tailored to me and my experience so for another it might be a different entity/representation and not a woman, but the so the story went) who is suffering greatly - being raped and tortured, in the middle of the forces of darkness and the only way to save her is to go in her place and be tortured so that she can be free. She was like a very close mother figure kind of woman and she was strong in being able to take the suffering, thats how it felt, but you want her to be free and happy. Here's the deal tho, in order for her to be free, you have to go in her place and be tortured. True love is selfless, but to what extent, if you are honest right now, would you swap and feel extreme pain for Her in order to save Her? Now what happened in my hallucination or experience, that I tried to do it, but as soon as the pain and suffering came, I was so afraid!! I mean the pain is so real, its so real but no guru is talking about it, they all say "suffering is an illusion" but they might not know something. I was moving in different dimensions and being chased to be tortured, but I was so afraid of the pain I kept running and I guess when they caught me and the pain went too much I died to that reality and went to another, in which something else happens... And it was God that was chasing me but I was trying to outmanoeuvre, to outrun, being scared of what I had signed up for trying to be selfless. But God was within me and I felt my heart and life as myself threatened, I felt so vulnerable, God could destroy me as he created me. Here I am talking about my normal human self, which I was throughout that whole thing. Then She said "Let him sleep" she was crying to let me back to sleep because She was so protective of me, she would do anything. She would actually take the pain that I was running from. And how quickly did I run, it felt like I am running from the pain that I actually did deserve. Like a mother taking the hit for her son from an abusive father. That's how it felt. Truly there are things to fear in this reality, I do not think its wise to say that all is well. That's like poking the hornet nest or like disregarding possible extreme pain that actually exists and is super real if you've experienced something like that. Its more real than sitting on a cushion and feeling empty of content. When you are in that place, you wont be able to find the space to meditate, because you would be chased by someone and you would need to actually play the game and fight for the Good and for peace, not just saying its all good already. Nonduality is like a permission slip for evil, you can normalise it in that way by saying its all good, all one. Yes it is One, but it is also many. So there might be a spiritual battle going on and we are asleep to that and just looking after our own egoic enlightenment where we feel great here and now, but not acknowledging there might be Pure Evil lurking somewhere that is NOT KNOWN to others. That is the most horrific thing, someone right now could be suffering greatly in the real world as well from the hands of pure evil and nobody BUT GOD would know about it. I guess I had to get that out of my chest. I wish to bring the light of love in the corners of reality where things are hidden and there is pain right now and nobody knows about it and nobody is trying to help. May God help those who are forgotten, weak and unjustly hurt. May God bless all who are not wicked. I dont know if anyone will read this cause it became quite lengthy.. So what would you do, would you suffer greatly for someone you love or someone who has decided to suffer greatly for you? Like a sinister game, a nightmare...

The neti neti method might be useful as a stepping stone towards nonduality, but notice that's it only goes half the way. Why? Because when we say "not that" about anything, that's a duality perspective. The nondual perspective includes everything. That of course means that it even includes the neti neti method but it's more than that. It's a totality perspective. So the neti neti method should only be used as a stepping stone or it becomes a duality trap.

I have heard people, maybe mostly nonduality teachers, talking about how the material world is like a mirror. And when we believe we alter things in the world that's actually an illusion! Absolutely mindblowing. But it makes sense from a consciousness first perspective. Changing reality is like putting lipstick on the mirror. Our ordinary experience is that putting lipstick on our own lips will make a difference. And of course on that level it does cause a change. But the nonduality idea is that all changes we make on the external level are projections of consciousness, since according to the common nonduality perspective everything material is just a projection of consciousness. So maybe it's possible to make a humongous shift of perspective, a total recontextualization where consciousness becomes the ground of being even experientially instead of experiencing the material world as the ground where change happens. The material world then becomes the "mirror" and consciousness the projector.

The world doesn't change overnight. Mindfulness meditation becoming mainstream is one baby step in the right direction. For the world to switch from the materialistic paradigm to nonduality requires much more than just a couple of apps becoming available on your phone. It requires immense development on multiple fronts: collective spiritual development, scientific paradigm shifts, social, political, cultural etc..

@Javfly33 Nonduality. Learning and teaching is duality, a false separation. A desire to teach is a desire to learn, both student and teacher are one. Teacher learns from student, student teaches teacher. You can't cause anyone to learn or understand anything, they ask and because there are no separate minds, another can be in tune with the answer to receive it. We're all learners and teachers, and Awareness/Love is the ultimate Knowing, and also the ultimate Openness and Curiosity and Desire to know. It's what we're already made up of. I mean... isn't it brilliant?

Do you understand that nonduality includes everything and every nothing? It is not just transcendent, unmanifested reality. It is also infinite discrete dream selves, all of which are infused with the same God. God is what is, and God is what is not. Dismissing yourself or myself as empty illusions, with no inherent meaning or purpose, ignores the reality of the Atman. Each self is worthy of honor in its own right. Each of us is the Atman, which is the direct manifestation of the infinite God. We are all one, we are all the same, and we are all holy. For you, it may be just a word. When our spiritual eyes open, we directly realize that God is Love, and we see God in everything. Don't confuse the Love of God with human emotion; it is infinitely pure, transcendent Love that can only be directly realized and resonated with, as the essence of who we are. Telling people that they are an illusion, with no purpose or value, is not helpful. Jesus taught selves to love one another. The Buddha taught selves to learn not to suffer. They saw more clearly than most of us do, and they valued these "illusionary" selves, which some on this forum insist on dismissing as meaningless.

@Someone here Do you notice when you went from nonduality to love there, you went from not two, to two? Exactly who needs this explained ‘over & over again’? Nothing you’re saying is common sense.

@Moksha "truth doesn't care about your feelings ". If you don't like the truth that won't make it false. When it's derived at.. from direct experience that there is no separate self.. That is nonduality. We are not saying there is no self.. We are saying there is no separate self. Because all is one. There is no self precisely because all is Self. And there is no other. Because there is no self. And that is Self. It's just one. And what the Self is honestly.. It's not this not that. For some reason I'm the only one here who realize that "Love" is just a word. Here it is.. L o v e. Four litters. That is what love is. From direct experience. On a relative more monkey mindish level.. Love is a human emotion. You love your mom. You love your kids. But you don't love to eat s*** on breakfast. The actual substance out of which reality is made is reality itself . It's not "love". Or any other word. It is what you are seeing it right now. Already. You don't need to label it. It didn't ask you to label it. It's already itself before we fight over what should we label it. Everything I'm saying is common sense yet for some reason I need to explain this over and over again.

It is a broader reference, not directed specifically at you. I removed the reference to drugs, if that doesn't inform your insights. I am addressing the general sentiment from some in this forum that there is no you, and by implication, that life is empty and nothing matters. I stayed silent on this out of not wanting to argue, but now I'm seeing people affected by it, and am choosing to speak up. People new here read limited knowledge like this, and lose any sense of hope or purpose in their lives. Some have left the forum because of it. How is it possible to love yourself or any other self, when people only see that there is no self for them to love? How is there a place for love in a world where everything is an illusion? Where is the morality or meaning in this view? We are not only dream forms. We are also Atman. You are a child of God, and so am I. We are all the same God, expressing itself infinitely. When you look at yourself in the mirror, what do you see? When you pass someone on the street, what do you see? When you contemplate a tree, what do you see? Are your spiritual eyes open enough to actually see the God that is in you, and in everything else? The Mystery of God runs far deeper than some seem to understand. God is not only outside of the dream world, God is infused into the dream world. That is the meaning of Atman. Nonduality is everything and every nothing. That is the wholeness and the holiness of God. That is why love matters.

I found this new dialog between Rupert Spira and Swami Sarvapriyananda. I randomly selected a part of the video where Spira said that nonduality teaching has evolved. That sounded interesting so I think I will check out the rest of the dialog.

All difference is imaginary from the perspective of Absolute consciousness. But this is not the place we live life from. This is her mistake. Because no matter how much she holds this position, her body and mind still must survive in the relative world. Voting is pointless if you don't care about dying and suffering. But of course you care extremely much about dying and suffering. Even if you are enlightened you STILL care about minimizing the suffering of others. Yes, it is of course an illusion. But when illusion is all that can ever exist, this point isn't as strong as she thinks. This is a common trap, to conflate relative matters with absolute matters. Just because you understand nonduality does not mean that your mind will properly reason about society or politics. Telling spiritual people not to vote is extremely irresponsible and ignorant, no matter how enlightened you are. Enlightenment does not automatically grant sound political reasoning. All survival happens in the relative domain. If you give up the relative domain, you must also give up survival. You can do that, but do you really understand the severity of what you're doing? When your child is being raped, are you gonna be okay with that? << Those are the real stakes here. That's what politics boils down to. It's very serious stuff. Contrary to what most people think, politics is about as serious a topic as there could be. It's all about life and death and suffering. Which is why people get so ideological about it. If it wasn't important people would not become political radicals. And the choice to do nothing, politically-speaking, is still a choice. So you cannot escape politics. Politics will happen regardless, even if you decided to ignore it. Basically she's being an ostrich sticking her head in the sand, hoping that someone else will solve all the political problems while she basks in the Absolute. Which is actually a selfish position.

There is no such thing as nonduality. It points to what it is not: duality. Nonduality is not the opposite of duality. This misinterpretation is the duality which is pointed to.

Nonduality teacher Roger Castillo often points out that what he means by peace of mind (Ramesh Balsekar's concept) is NOT pleasure, pleasure, pleasure. Life is sometimes pain and sometimes pleasure he says. I think that's correct at the personal stage. However I believe that the foundation of the transpersonal stage is inner peace and that it feels very pleasant compared to many of the nasty emotions at the personal stage. Here is a recent satsang video:

?‍♂️ Is not. Not is. There is no you in Nonduality. There is no separation in Nonduality. There is no appearance in Nonduality. There is no dream in Nonduality.

Okay. Look. Psychedelics are healing. They're a key to Shangri-La, actually. Freaking El-Dorado. Atlantis. Fuck, I love scripted masturbation. But I don't like the sound of this paragraph. It sounds like rationalizing of an ego as to why to 'give its parents psychedelics' and punish them for their close-mindedness under the cloak of 'waking them up.' I'm further convinced by this: You say in order to make this work I would need to muster the most convincing argument I ever made. Bad idea. In an ideal case, you wouldn't need an argument at all. Alright? This work isn't about persuading someone by logic. Their consent ought to resonate on a deeply intimate emotional level, not be decided from a position of rational exhaustion. Please, don't treat them like NPCs just because they haven't had mystical experiences. Despite being unaware, their whole life has been a mystical experience, and, in fact, from a spiritual stance, they are already perfect and enlightened, for they are consciousness, and you ought to love them unconditionally. Your motivation to do this is noble, and you are a gallant knight for pursuing it, yet canter not with your sword risen: Speak with them face to face, strip yourself of rationality, be emotionally naked, be so pure in telling them the real intention - and if they decline, that's perfectly fine, you've done the most you could. This coming out will be, most likely, emotionally grueling, and you'll want to use every good argument in the world before committing to it. My first-ever post on this forum was about a desire to change people. Ironic, isn't it? This cute little thing called nonduality is actually a finely-edged circuit: By flipping the switch in yourself, you're automatically flipping the switches in everyone else. You're taking the entire world with you. Even a freaking bird - a tiny fella who chirps every morning outside your window - is suddenly woke as fuck. How come? He's perfect. So are your parents. I wouldn't have the courage to speak this while being dismembered in a jungle, but deep down I'd know the truth and eventually surrender. But if I were to bring my parents to the table; invite them on a trip, I'd do so from a position of complete unshacklement from desires. I'd tell them how unconditionally I love them, that this decision must come from within them, and I'd spill the beans. Also, the first trip should remain on a very light dose. Yup. Earth will be a gorgeous when this becomes a norm. But until then, we gotta play the cards we've been dealt.

The ego is generated by the mind. If you stop generating subjective reality, you get to see the truth. I still haven't realized enlightenment by the way. I heavily identify with my traumas and my past but I have seen some glimpses of nonduality.