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This is actually not true: there was a Japanese practice throughout the Middle Ages known as harakiri where a noble would commit suicide if they had sufficiently tarnished their reputation and standing in society. In many ancient societies, a woman was even expected to commit suicide if her husband died before her (see, for example, the Hindu practice of sati). Buddhism and Stoicism both allowed for suicide but only in very special certain circumstances. For example Cicero is quoted as saying: “To leave the place that one is assigned in life is not permitted without an order from the leader, who is God.” And Seneca even says this: “Wherever you do not want to fight, it is always possible to retreat. You have been given nothing easier than death.” In a certain way, you could even say that the Christian martyrs committed suicide; there is a very famous story in the Old Testament in which Samson kills himself along with all the Philistines by pulling down their temple. HOWEVER, a suicide that was motivated by personal and passionate concerns of any kind was totally condemned, not only because it was understood as being a violence committed against one’s own nature and even against society, but also because it was known to be simply ineffective. After all, if you are still identified with your karma, the mere fact that your body is dead will not sever this attachment, and severe punishments will likely be incurred for having inflicted such a violence upon life. Therefore - in almost all cases, unless one is absolutely sure that there is nothing left to be fulfilled in this life - suicide is a great mistake and should definitely not be done. None of the above is intended in any way as an advocation of suicide - don’t kill yourself! If you know someone who has unfortunately committed suicide, you can at least know that they might not be rotting in hell for all eternity. Finally, a koan-style joke from the Romanian philosopher Emil Cioran: it’s not worth it to kill yourself because you always do it too late!

It should be legal but made extremely hard to access (ie, for terminally ill/irreparable conditions that cause ongoing sufferring, maybe room for exceptions as well). The reason is that most people who think about/plans suicide do want to live, they just feel hopeless about their life and the situation they found themselves. So the first priority is to find a way to give people a floor to stand on and the help/connection they need. Unfortunately that's a tall order in most places still, which makes suicide more appealing..

Of course euthanasia and assisted suicide should be legal.

I think this would be one of the strongest arguments in favour of not letting people to commit suicide. I still don't think laws would lower down suicide rates, and i also wouldn't want to force someone to live, when they don't want to. Why would anyone be afraid of a law, when she/he will be dead anyway? Also lets say they would be punsihed for an unsuccesful suicide attempt in that case, they would be even more motivated to try to commit suicide again, so they don't have to suffer even more and longer. A better support system would be better, where they talk with suicidal people more, try to convince them to live, but at the end of the day suicidal people should be the ones to decide if they want to live or not. It seems pretty immoral to force someone to live, when he/she doesn't want to anymore. We can say that they are selfish because they can possibly cause even more suffering to their loved ones, but that would be about their morality not ours. Also i think with a better support system, most people who are indecisive about suicide they could be convinced not to do it, and only a much smaller number of people who really wouldn't see any other way, would choose suicide.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59577162 Suicide pod incoming ?

Collateral damage is too high. Every person wether they know it or not, is loved by someone. Their mother, their father, sister, brother, best friends, nieces, nephews, etc — even if they don’t see it, they are loved. The immense suffering from a suicide is a massive blow to everyone emotionally who had a connection to that person. It’s extremely selfish because somebody has to bury the body and it’s not done by just digging a hole and throwing them in there. Funerals fucking suck

No, we shouldn't. We should rather create a society where most people are happy enough with their life, so they don't want to commit suicide in the firstplace. If someone really want to kill him/herself, then he/she will do it regardless if its legal or not. The difference is that if there is a legal way to do it, they have a chance to choose between methods, and their body could be taken care of after death immediately. With there being a legal way to do it, i think there is a lower potential that more suffering will be created.

When I imagine myself carrying out suicide this is what I feel happens.. Becoming disembodied and spiraling infinitely out of control in my own dillusional mind... SCARY. I try to imagine that god will embrace me and understand why I did it, but that’s not what I feel happens in reality

@Illusory Self you have a shitty ego, very dysfunctional. this is a very serious challenge and it can easily end in disaster, I mean, chronic depression, loneliness, being a bitter old man who doesn't find the courage to commit suicide... you know, at 26 you are a promise, at 46, a disappointment, and at 20 years go by fast. In my opinion, in your situation, in which I feel identified in the past, you have to be very, very serious. Go to transcendence, enlightenment . you have a nice puzzle ahead, but watch out! we are not playing here. The consequences of laziness, lack of insight, or simple bad luck, are the disaster. we are at war, not playing. If you need any help, I'm glad to try to contribute my grain. I understand what is at stake

Wow umm.....all this dead super early and suicide talk is so unnerving.....I don't know for me after my near death experience....I really appreciate life more. Everyone in here talks about their death so simply I believe they underestimate how much they love their life....when you truly face your own demise and the end of your Avatar.....you will realize how much you appreciated it. Many people that commit suicide and survive are actually happy they survive. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/ So most of you talking like this.....haven't really faced death. While ultimately you cannot die the life and death of your human avatar can and coming face to face with that is paradigm shifting..... Anyway to answer the question..... Hopefully somewhere improving on my ability to meditate and connect inward.

I didn't know life could be improved. https://www.polerstuff.com/famous-people-who-committed-suicide/

omg this fucking forum.. just pressed "show reply" and it deleted everything I wrote?? Helpful, yes, but unnecessary if the goal is to gain compassion. Trauma from this would cause hundreds of millions to commit suicide, so not worth it. Really jumping around the question here.. btw, simpler to say FI/Fe than emotional empathy, reflexive emotional empathy, etc.

Is this the laziest solution to enlightenment?

@thisintegrated you need to stop judging people and how they lead their lives or drawing conclusions based on their personality. This is gross generalization and misrepresentation of how people feel on a collective level. This is like telling a rape victim their fears aren't real because they aren't currently getting raped You have absolutely zero clue on what suffering means and this clearly clearly tells me that you didn't suffer shit in life and you simply hit the keyboard and write the most insensitive stuff to people (reminds me of keyboard warriors on reddit), because if you really suffered enough, then you clearly wouldn't be tempted to judge other's suffering, you would have developed empathy for what others go through without wanting to question their suffering. Which you don't. Personality is simply a test of general nature and behavior, it says nothing about a person's quality of life. Anyone can suffer, literally anyone can suffer deeply and this would be regardless of their MBTI result. To base a person's life on their MBTI is absolutely projecting, assumptive and absurd. People with bpd or any other mental illness and irrespective of their MBTI suffer greatly because mental illness in of itself is a great suffering and you can never tell if someone with mental illness is suffering physically or not, your judgment is pitiful and lame. People wouldn't commit suicide if they weren't suffering deeply. Do not downplay. Remember a lot of mentally ill people end up killing themselves every year, they wouldn't if they didn't suffer a great deal. Finally suffering is what you feel on the inside rather than external circumstances. Somebody could be living in shitty conditions and live very happily because their mental condition is fine. Yet another could be living in a palace and still suffer depression. You cannot compare one person's suffering with another because at the end of the day, what they feel on the inside matters. Also you cannot tell a depression victim why are they taking their life so seriously. Or stop feeling depressed. Because you don't know how their life is impacting their mind and emotions, it's not impacting you, but it's impacting them. Stop judging people with your flimsy biased standards of behavior and incorporate some empathy in your attitude and you'll realize that your definition of mental illness, suffering and human behavior are extremely myopic, harsh,judgemental and cut throat. You're too immature to understand things.

One of the things you realize when you go through enough awakenings is that you can dissolve and return to source. You can actually leave the dream at anytime. The only one stopping you from leaving is YOU. How to leave the dream. - Meditate, meditate so much that your NATURAL state is meditation - Focus on raising your consciousness -Remove all attachments to your life...then you will fade back into your infinite consciousness and leave the dream. Psydelics can reveal all this to you if you are ready to find out. I got into a car accident recently and saw the other side. My awareness skyrocketed the closer my physical body got to death. I then became aware of my true self...and was aware that I could LEAVE and return to my divine self...I instantly realized how much I enjoyed being a human. When you face the choice of leaving....you realize how much you want to stay. The only ones who leave the dream are the ones that TRULY want to leave. And suicide isn't an example that only happens because they have forgotten what they are.

My initial reaction to the latest video was genuinely "Leo's finally lost it". Of course the obvious counterpoint is that I'm not spiritually enlightened and I'm not actualized enough to understand. I'm open to that. But realize how extremely cult-y this sounds to even a moderately interested subscriber, let alone someone coming across the work for the first time. Let's assume what's said in the latest video is completely true. Even so, some things are so crazy to say that they aren't worth saying publicly. All it does is destroy credibility and make Actualized.org as a whole look insane. If the first solipsism video was too advanced and dangerous to release to the masses, this latest one absolutely is. Not because of danger to the viewer but just because it's optics suicide. We're definitely at a point where even hardcore non-enlightened followers can no longer follow along. "I'm talking to other Gods and technically they're real but also I'm the only one that's real and I created them, also all of this can only be realized on drugs" Like what is the average person to make of this. If the goal is to niche down to only the most hardcore followers, or leave something behind to be recognized for your genius hundreds of years down the road, then this is the right path. But if I considered myself the most awakened being in reality, I would personally want to put more emphasis on bringing non-enlightened people up to Sadhguru, Peter Ralston levels first. Instead of trying to elevate the top 1% even higher. I feel like appealing to the masses would make a more meaningful and needed shift in consciousness in the short term. Otherwise it's like trying to have a stage coral conversation with a medieval peasant. A long time ago there was an analogy of holding a mirror up in front of a donkey and saying "this is you!" No matter how many times you try to explain it, the donkey's mind is not capable of understanding. With this latest video, 90% of us are donkeys that literally can't comprehend. 9% are taking it as belief and mental masturbation. Far less than 1% who ever watch it will ever understand and experience it for themselves.

Spirituality was useless to me, it was an illusion I thought I was happy for a few weeks but every time I was naive Now I see how bad I feel, I was always a people pleaser, a dog. Since all those years of school bullying, I became weak, insecure, people-pleaser... I tried so many things, but it was 10 years of my life wasted. I tried to accept myself as I am, weak, feeling less than others, anxious and lousy with girls, but it didn't work. I tried to become confident, I tried to believe, to use the law of attraction, to believe that I would find my girlfriend or that I was attractive. I tried to be happy alone, to resign myself. I tried to stop caring what others think of me. I tried magic, mantras, positive affirmations, loving myself... Energy therapists, psychologists, help centers, drugs, meditation, spending time alone, talking to my inner child, getting muscular,... I can't stand being like this anymore, I don't want to fight anymore because it leads to nothing but more pain. Even the narcissistic perverts are more loved and respected than me. If only I could be like them, mean, manipulative without ever feeling bad. At least women would pay attention to me and I wouldn't be alone all my life. I can't be happy the only time in my life I was really happy was when I was with a girlfriend or when I was on drugs. These men and women who harassed me at school for years have totally destroyed me after 10 years of fighting to change, I am the same but feeling worse because I am more aware. I hate these women, I had always idealized them to take them as angels, to feel less than nothing in front of them, to try to please them or to pretend that they did not attract me... They don't give a damn about nice or insecure guys. They like assholes, bad guys, fake guys. I always feel bad about myself, always thinking what others think of me, believing that they're making fun of me, having negative thoughts of me, will reject me if I ask them out. I hate myself even more, acting like a dog, being afraid of confrontation, of displeasing or being rejected. Having tried everything to stay the same, seeing all these people worse than me who find love The law of attraction, love, magic are all bullshit. All these people who tell me "it's going to be ok" "keep fighting" "don't give up" .... they make me sick I was fighting for 10 years, I had toxic girlfriend who manipulated me because of my weakness and my insecurities, now I'm alone like never and I see how much I was naive how much I'm destroyed inside how much this world is bad, all this spiritual bulltshit is only making it worse, believing but nothing good ever happens I want to be an asshole, a bad guy, I want to be the extreme opposite of who I am without feeling bad. I can't live like this anymore, I'd rather die than stay a dog. But how to do it? Nothing works, I'm doomed to feel inferior to others, to feel not good enough or weird I can't even choose suicide because this fucking God is creating bad karma if I kill myself. It's pure hell, hell is here thank u "loving god"

But that metaphysical realization is actually amazing and mysterious and feels full not empty. our guy here is talking about loneliness and feeling disconnected which leads to depression and possibly suicide or some kind of premature death not spiritual bliss

@Someone here Actually it has everything to do with escapism. I feel complete right NOW existing as I am and to be precise you couldn't feel complete without first having an experience. You feel that the time between falling asleep and waking up is relaxing, but that is just, because you wake up relaxed, but what if you could have this peace while doing home chores. That just requires mindfulness skills. Ask @BipolarGrowth and he may also say the same thing that existence can be extremely beautiful and no thought about no-content can be as good as that. Also these kind of thought patterns you are having have potentiality to lead to suicide thoughts, because you are trying to get something which you already have, but just don't notice. I have just seen that you have had these negative thoughts lately and you should take my response as a message to start fixing things.

I enjoyed Pokemon mystery dungeon explorers of sky. There are so many potential fan fictions of this master piece. Basically, your a human who travelled from the future and transformed into a Pokemon on a mission to stop the planet's paralysis. In this process you intend to change history, therefore causing you to disappear. The game says it is for like 10 year olds, but you are constantly on a suicide mission to defeat the God of time. It is an emotional roller coaster and fun to play. There are a couple of plot holes like the visions that are never fully explained though, and it looks like they are there just to conveniently advance the plot. PMDgang makes a lot of fan fictions on YouTube and there is some good music from this game and fan made music. The biggest disappointment is that the animated series of this only lasted 4 episodes instead of 200 episodes. there was so much potential for all the missions and stories. This is more disappointing than the Zelda animated series which could have been so much cooler. Imagine an episode of link gathering the chickens. The guard in front of death mountain recommends that He prepares himself by getting an empty bottle and filling it with a red potion. He climbs up the windmill as it pours down rain and the building is struck by lightning. He holds into some ropes like In the intro to links awakening. Finally he jumps off the windmill as the clouds part and the sunlight shines on link flying down with the chicken he caught. He then fills the empty bottle with a red potion to help him right king dodongo, so the filler episodes would actually be relevant. Pokemon mystery dungeon could do this with the side mission rewards such as max elixers, reviver seeds, and other useful items. These items are used in later dungeons against bosses.

Happiness in life is determined by the circumstances in which you were born. If you were born into a wealthy, happy family you will likely be financially secure and happy until the end of your life. If you are born into a dysfunctional family of drug addicts you will likely be just like your parents because everything in life is perpetual as life is a competition and money is God in our society. If you are upper class you are God, if you are lower class you are treated like dirt. Drugs are for poor people to escape the pain of being poor so they can transition to homelessness where they can commit suicide after they have paid their dealers their money and time. The rich get richer. Every dollar is blood money. If you are wealthy you have everything. If you are poor you have nothing. That is how capitalism works. If you are on this forum you have been duped by the rich. Nobody has any free will except to be governed by impulses and primitive instincts like fear. If addicts had free will they wouldn't be addicts in the first place. The element of chance when you were born just happened to result in circumstances that encourage addiction, and a bad life, and this random number generator just happened to spit out the right numbers for the person next to you for them to never have any real problems. Once you are on a downwards spiral the only place to go is to continue going dowwards because nobody tells you rock bottom is actually death. The people that commit suicide just get there faster. Rich people have a life drive and poor people have a chronic death drive. The people most prone to child abuse, and other crimes are, you guessed it: poor people. In the animal kingdom the prey are destined to suffer being eaten alive while they yelp and scream in pain, while the predator enjoys it. The rich are predators, the poor prey. The gap between poor and rich is also shrinking. Some people are just born to suffer while someone else enjoys it because that's their destiny, so they have no free will. Why live like that? Better to just die than accept your lot of misery in life. Life has no bounds for cruelty, and no bounds for good luck and everything else you can never have for the randomly selected people that are the lucky ones which are 90% of people. The brain is engineered from the ground up to avoid pain and encourage addiction. Everyone is screwed over eventually. If addiction doesn't screw you over life does. Either one will leave you wanting to kill yourself brutally. Meanwhile there are filthy rich housewives that only need to think about having kids with their gorgeous husband. They get to enjoy life to the fullest. To be a man is to suffer from a perpetual inferiority complex of never being good enough. You have to provide as a man. To be born a rich woman you are a Goddess. You can live consequence free until the day you die. You don't even have to live in our reality anymore. You can take hallucinogenic drugs until you die. After the constant harem of life, what do you get in the afterlife? Heaven, believe it or not. Guess the chances of you or me to go to heaven?. Only because we're born with the wrong genitals. After all it's way easier when you brain literally produces less dopamine from watching porn if you're a blessed female. With no refractory period you can literally be a sex Goddess in this life with no consequences. Fuck being a man. Being a man is living in a constant existential crisis due to a fight between your lower brain in your crotch and your upper brain which is in your head. It's literally a joke. Being a man is nature's joke. You know what happens to males in the animal kingdom? They are disposed of. Their hearts give out at the moment reproduction is successful. A female praying mantis bites the head off a male. Men are expendable only to be used and discarded.

I hope I'll be dead naturally because suicide seems to lead to bad karma and I hope I'll have a better life because unfortunately I have to exist eternally, no choice, I must suffer as a being thank you God

There is this scene in breaking bad that really made an impact on me. I usually don't like watching movies and series that are violent or even just exciting, because it makes me nervous. But we used to do it together. It was more okay for me when he was there, and I think it was a way for us to connect. There is a line in one of those songs that he listened to a lot: Usually, I put Something on TV So we never think About you and me But today I see Our reflections Clearly in Hollywood Laying on the screen It feels kind of dull when I read it like this, but cliché things are cliché for a reason. The last thing we watched together was The OA I think. I remember us being so freaked out because whenever we watched a new episode some synchronicity would happen and it would make reality feel really malleable and blurry. It wouldn't surprise me if that series was cursed or infused with some sort of metaphysical-cyber-psychedelics. I had a wolf-hoodie on my favorites list in this thrift-store app I have on my phone. It is special because the girl in OA has one exactly like it. I knew Wave would find it totally epic if I got it. But we were on the break. I bought it now. Too late for him to see. it's so absurd. Wearing it makes me happy and sad at the same time. I just really wish he hadn't died. I keep going back in my mind. It has become a little better. In the beginning, it was unbearable. I was constantly in my imagination. What if I had said that instead of that. What if I hadn't moved. What if I had called that day when I wanted to but didn't. What if I had been more persistent. What if I hadn't been such a slut and such a bitch and such a The scene from breaking bad is the scene (obviously) where Jane dies from Jessie. It's something about the choice Walt makes about letting her die because he thinks he knows what's best for Jessie. And then something about who has the blame. Because if Jessie had not been there, then Jane wouldn't have started using drugs again. But if Walt hadn't been there, then she wouldn't have been sleeping on her back, suffocating in her own puke. And if Jane hadn't died then her dad wouldn't have failed at work, resulting in the plane crash killing hundreds of people. But then maybe if she had not died, they would have continued to use heroin and ruin their lives, and maybe end up hurting their own child if they had one or maybe dying both of them. So maybe Walt actually did the best thing for Jessie when he didn't save Jane. But what if they had succeeded in becoming clean and happy. Then Walt just killed a girl and in a way hundreds of people, for nothing. And what if then Jessie dies or ruins his life or doesn't do anything that helps anyone, then it really is for nothing. I feel so stupid writing this. Because of course, I know that nothing is no one's fault. And there is no way to know if anything is for the better or worse because it's a loop that never ends. it was Wave who showed me the story about the farmer. Once upon a time, there was an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. “Such bad luck,” they said sympathetically. “Maybe,” the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. “How wonderful,” the neighbors exclaimed. “Maybe,” replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy for his misfortune. “Maybe,” answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son’s leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. “Maybe,” said the farmer. --Zen Parable it's funny how life is. Whenever I see God I'm gonna fucking punch him in the stomach because some shit is just not funny. I know Wave would tell me this story now if he saw me sitting here mourning him. And I guess that is actually what he is doing because I remember it, and he is inside me. I feel like his suicide just turned my life up at super level hard mode. And I don't feel very capable but I'm really just trying to trust that the self who is me outside from time and space knows what she is doing. And that Wave knows what he is doing. I'm really trying to hold on to faith.

@snowyowl I know that suicide is not an option. I dont have the balls to do it. However, when the hell never ends because you're too traumatised to do anything about it and you have no fight left anymore, and you dread every day because you're terrified of what bad experience you could have next. I live every day in crippling fear of other people because I know they're going to make my life miserable if I stand up for myself in any way. Some people have so much power over you they can do anything to you and you can't do anything to them. The only option is to leave, but you're too scared to do the things you need to do to leave.

@aurum Lots of things there to address: That would seem to be the exception and not the norm. And it still doesn't address that people have such a small amount of time to go through things in each "session" - of which the length is dictated by the profession. This is about exceptions again, most people I see who are ready to see a therapist want to talk about things, but it is artificially dragged out for months and years when it could be done in much shorter time frame, and be more beneficial to that person's life if they can address things in a shorter time frame if they're ready for it. Two pronged approach would be ideal, both more public funding and, therapists charging a more reasonable sliding scale that is inclusive of low-income individuals or ones without insurance. I'm really skeptical of this statement. Therapists just need an office which is often shared with others (some don't even have that and go virtual), they don't require specialized equipment or tools or input costs other than their office. Yes I recognize they had training and probably student debt, but that's a whole other issue that also goes with other professions. With most other things it may not be a problem, and if you are not having "mental health problems" it would be less of a problem. But someone on the brink of suicide or in a deep state of depression, it may very well have been the thing that led them to that state, that almost everything in their life has been transactional/conditional. Which is why we have hotlines and stuff but it doesn't go far enough.