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@Vipassana Yes, and nonduality dreams all dualities ?

Infinite illusion is still illusion. How can anything unreal be important? Unless this is threatened by numbers, they cannot be significant. The only significance is the nonduality that cannot be threatened

Strange loops often involve self-reference, which is paradoxical. Eg statements about "everything", or God creating itself. Nonduality is self-reference because there's no split between doer and done. Or like if I told you that I am lying right now, would you believe me or not?

@Moksha @cuteguy thanks! but is noself separate from self? I guess talking about it is dual. But if nonduality is true, duality is not separate from it. Separation is the same thing as god, no? God is everything, even separation and unconsciousness. Maybe this is a silly question; noself is ultimately not exclusive of self. Not this not that means transcending it. You are it but you also are not.

@Mikael89 You have to distinguish between Absolute and relative domains of knowledge. Nonduality is about the Absolute. In the relative you can still be very deluded or mistaken.

Aha! I found an interesting possibility, that confusion and the sense of free will go together. They are both a result of a mistaken perspective. If anything, confusion is the more correct perception since free will is completely wrong according to nonduality. And confusion is also a delusion since reality as a whole is never confused.

For contextualisation, it seems that the OPs comment is a response to some Rupert Spiras youtube talk. It seems that Rupert Spiras nonduality version and its "direct path" method has lot in common with ideas advocated on this forum about the nature of consciousness.

Appreciate your response, thanks. Would love more clarity on this. How is RASA (“Ramaji Advaita Shaktipat Attunement”) not Reiki (“light, love”). If there is no difference, what is the intention of ‘people knowing it is not reiki’ (as in not the true nature, love & light). Again, much appreciated. Wondering...do you find any difference in feeling when considering Spira’s models & metaphors which serve to deconstruct duality & demystify ‘states of consciousness’ in the vein of realization of nonduality, in comparison to the model Ramaji offers which states separate people have levels of consciousness? Do you feel this misleads & feeds into the materialist paradigm in any way? It seems to imply to consciousness is measurable as a property of a separate self, which (‘who’) can ‘increase it’. Why would a teacher ‘play along’ with such a falsity? Making a confession seems very different that making a model that be default is the confession. Seems so misleading, thoughts? Accurate of consciousness...or accurate to Ramaji’s interpretation of separate selves which have levels of consciousness? See what I’m saying here, or no? Isn’t the assumed basis incorrect and misleading? It is literally feeding beliefs “I can raise my consciousness”, no? Is there a benefit to encouraging these beliefs that I’m missing perhaps? No offense I hope, really, but isn’t the “my students” thinking misleading & divisive? If not, how so? Again, seems rooted in a separate selves model from the start. No? Is this not already the true nature of consciousness...? It seems like adding layers, measurements, identification, beliefs, and teaching models. No? Can you really ‘break it down’ for me...how is what I’m saying skeptical, vs common sense?

Hello, (I hope this is the right forum) I was diagnosed with breast cancer two months ago and I am currently undergoing chemotherapy. I am 29 years old. Spirituality and the teachings of Leo, Eckhart Tolle as well as the approaches of Nonduality as a whole enrich me a lot and give me stability. At the moment I am not working and use the time to get in touch with myself. I am very grateful to be able to do this (I live in Germany). For this I do a lot physically,too: every day I spend an hour in nature and I practice Qi Gong. Dealing with the situation spiritually lets me learn a lot about myself. I have been working on my shadows for years and meditation always helps me a lot. Even now. Unfortunately I often have problems because I want to do everything right. I am so afraid that I won't make it or that I might fall ill again. The risk is there, not few women experience that. Because of these fears (and obviously my pathological attachment to them) it is so difficult for me to visualise a positive vision of my future. Maybe I will never be able to have children. Never live without fear. When I think about it, so much sadness and helplessness fills me. I have the feeling that meditation and reading books or journaling only relieves me for a short time, but this fear always resonates. So often I fall into the victim mode and am not present and therefore suffering. And then I am hard on myself again because my life depends on healing my shadows and being confident about myself. And that the cause of the illness lies in these shadows and that I want to arrange my life in such a way that I always stay healthy puts me under so much pressure. I always felt so lost and overwhelmed growing up and i never had „real“ obstacles, they were always in my head. Now there is this existential crisis and I do not know where to start. Always the question "what if I don't make it?“ everything overwhelms me. Please help me. Thank you

You can't focus on nothing, because there is no such thing, nonduality. There cannot be a substantial you, who is lacking something in some way. There just can't. Doesn't work out. It doesn't math. But we try to do it all the time. "I don't have what I want, I'm not the way I want, etc." An outright, explicit thought is already moving in the direction of what we want but most of these thoughts are just accepted and not even recognized, verbalized or intentionally, consciously thought. The only thing you can actually do is envision what you want, or appreciate what is there. LOA works the same way to find your favorite pair of socks that has been missing for two months, or in spiritual "progression". In fact, there's no real difference. Your missing/found socks are actually a profound mystical experience. But you think you and your socks are mundane, so you color over the magic that is there waiting to be noticed and invited in rather than felt as absence of. By the way, in the same way, there are no low quality teachings that you need someone else to help filter out for you. No one is teaching you anything you don't already know.

Many nondual teachers say this, but I do not understand it. I don't feel like I am putting resistance here, I used to believe in free-will but Leo convinced otherwise in one video, I cant argue with solid logic, so yeah I am pretty much open to have my conceptions challenged and destroyed. But from my perspective Perceiver never existed sounds... ummm... stupid. I totally accept that I am imagined, and that everything I perceive is imaginary, a fiction, this flows well with my current spiritual growth. But "I dont exist" just rings nothing inside me but cringe. Fiction is "something" afterall, its a difference, a manifestation, therefor I am "something", even if I am not material. Unless this is just a play in semantics... if the only real thing is that which is unchangeable => nothingness. Then yes, I agree with this, but then I would not agree to relate unchangeable with realness. Isn't the point of nonduality that both nothingness and everythingness =true?

Of course you can't understand what it means for you to not exist. You have to die first to understand that. It's obviously not true for you. Thats all that matters. If you believe them or come to some logical understanding of nonduality it still does you no good because your still not conscious of anything new. You've only created a nice intellectual model in your head. Models can be useful to a certain extent, but never confuse the model for the territory. For all you know, Nonduality is false. You don't know until you do the exercises to raise your own consciousness and see. Keep doing self inquiry, meditation, yoga, psychedelics, whatever works for you.

You're right, sometimes you just need a good hug. Says it better than all this talking about nonduality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Nwadike_Jr.

@Mikael89 the difference is solipsism says you as the human are all alone. This is false. Nonduality Says you as everyone and everything are all alone. This is true.

My bro I am not here to say they are not both appearances Its just one of those appearances is better in my mouth and the other is better in my toilet. Hahahh Everything is blue for you isnt it! Ah, cute nonduality man..... Right, I am the only one dual in these forums Thats how God made me . I 'll keep eating my jam

@VeganAwake Right back at ya ? Not to complete your life's work or anything, but I agree with you that singular Consciousness is just another belief I got in trouble with a certain forum owner on the day I joined by calling nonduality a theory. I don't talk about it much, but even nonduality cannot exist without duality. Ultimately, Tat is the Mystery that cannot be understood. It underlies even nonduality and duality. I keep telling people not to try making sense of it with their maths, but it's like we can't help ourselves.

I connected a lot of dots when my Grandmother died. She was 93, so it was easy to accept but still I loved her very much. The grief drove me deeper into intuition and connection I wasn't conscious of before. It felt like an expansion and clarity of love rather than loss and when it didn't I was able to see the clarity every now and then again. I started listening to Abraham Hicks clips at the same time who said to look for someone you lost where they are and not where they are not. As you go deeply into nonduality, this pointer makes sense on every level and can be experienced. Rather than grief it's a kind of profundity and beauty that can be covered over if you only look where you believe something that once was is no longer. You have to go to them where they are, they won't come to you because your assumption that something is lost is mistaken.

One curious difference between the akasha model and traditional science is that we ourselves are the akasha. So we can't for example experiment with akasha without experimenting on and with ourselves. And we can't communicate with akasha other than talking to ourselves, haha. This seeming wacky situation is actually consistent with nonduality. And as Leo has pointed out, even in mainstream science what actually happens is that we are doing even that science within our own subjective consciousness perspective, not as something external and objective "out there".

?‍♂️ I never said it was separate things except for in the perspective of a person. I talk about it like separate things because I'm coaching for specific lucid dreaming techniques. This is a hotline for lucid dreaming, not a place to debate about nonduality. This is a safe place, for all who merely wish to learn lucid dreaming. If someone needs to explain that astral projection is or isn't dreaming or real life or super lucid dreaming, thats really interesting stuff for a separate thread. And I really mean that, truly. If I seemed at all bothered, it was because I have been clear on the purpose of this thread from the beginning, if you read any of those posts.

@Leo Gura for me personally, I didn’t take a lot of drugs. But when I did I experienced nonduality. On weed. On LSD I wasn’t able to make sense at the time what was happening to me, but after walking the path with meditation 2 years later I remembered the experience. My LSD trip was a horrible bad trip. I had mixed alc, weed and a small dose of lsd in a bad location with friend I thankfully knew really well. Not to say I’m scared of reaching the final stage, but could it happen that I become schizophrenic. Because everything is already so psychotic, but in the most lovely and peaceful way imaginable. I try to make sense of all of this, I just can’t. I don’t understand why things are the way they are. It is amazing to talk to people like you @Leo Gura that share the same level of understanding and even higher. Thank you for your time.

I've been following Leo for quite some time on youtube, but I didn't thought before to also check this website. It's a nice surprise that it also has a forum, so that I can make my ideas known and thus contribute to the advancement of science in the study of consciousness. Therefore... My work on consciousness can be found here: https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan There is also a video there that I presented at the Science & Nonduality conference, though I highly recommend reading the papers. We can discuss here various topics that you find interesting from my work, or you can open individual topics. The main ideas that I think I bring new is the idea that consciousness is structured on a holarchy of emergent levels and the idea that this is done by an entity that I call self-reference. For example, in the visual domain this would be the qualia of: black-and-white -> shades-of-gray -> colors -> shapes -> objects -> full visual scene. The characteristic of the emergent structure of consciousness being that each level includes and transcends the previous level. This can be explored in "The Emergent Structure of Consciousness" paper. Then, in "The Self-Referential Aspect of Consciousness" I show how this structure is obtained by self-reference, which is an entity with the property of looking-back-at-itself. By looking-back-at-itself, self-reference includes and transcends its previous self. Because of this property, self-reference is unformalizable. Also, this means that it is no-thing and every-thing, both at the same time. And this also leads to what Leo is teaching that I am God. Because of its unformalizable nature, self-reference is not a thing, but at the same time, it also generates and is all the things, all qualia, so all consciousnesses are forms of manifestation of self-reference, self-reference which can be taken to be God. In the other papers, I apply these ideas to all sorts of cases, like in "The Quale of Time" I show how time is also a quale part of the emergent structure of consciousness, and in "On the Phenomenon of Unification" I show how the dynamics of self-reference is responsible for the unification of consciousnesses (like what happens with the 2 "brain" hemispheres) and for telepathy (which I postulate to be a case of consciousnesses unification). You can also buy my book, to help me financially, though the book is formed from my papers put together, so you can just read the papers. I will gladly like to know what you think about my ideas and it would be nice if together we can help push forward the advancement of science such as to make consciousness its primary field of study.

Does nondual science include conventional science? No, because nondual science is itself a dualistic model. All models are dualistic. Instead nondual science can be seen as a pointer to nonduality. The belief in separate causes is a necessary stage of development. And the crystallized ego is a product of society which itself still is at the personal stage of development. So ego development is useful up to a point. It's only when the trick of separate causes has been recognized where ego demolishment becomes useful and necessary.

Never-ending love We’ve been doing this for eternity... Loving ourselves Infinitely Endlessly... Beingness The gentle pain of existence Softly caresses the echoes of your heart And when you feel tired It turns and hugs As the shiver on your skin Giving you a kiss The curse of that endlessness An infinite desire from separateness Taking a lifetime of beingness To give you the love from wholeness I sometimes feel All of my life in one single undivided moment All the emotions All the beauty All the love All the pain At once... Sacred tree Sacred tree Sitting alone In a dream Its arms folding Onto the beams of light The dream is asleep It speaks a thousand tongues In and out of its being Through the blood it drank In this realm of beauty Being a part of grace It seeps into you and me Fueling the voices of our pain The sacred tree speaks... It was once nothing Through the endless being It became something Nonduality, duality Existence and essence All are moving and being Living and dying Loving and hating Without time The gift The gift Of existence Something we granted ourselves It is through eternity That we see the bliss in mortality It is through difficulties That we can love without pain It is from the words that we sang That we hear the truth speak In silence We see the lives of infinite beings Living Through the cycles of love and pain And being aware of here We felt the love from that sacred place Speaking, without a word Being, love. Transcendence The bell rings at the wake of dawn Singing the echo of that holy song Where in this moment we shall sit And await the presence of next gong The wind is howling about a secret Of the magical beauty in the now As it flew, it kissed my skin And took away all my wrongs The drum beating in my chest Speaking the words of divine love Where no mind nor thoughts, Can disturb this song I am... Nothing more

This is profoundly not helpful. I already understand the "absolute sense" of infinite causality and thus the apparent illusion of free will and choice. Pragmatically, what you're saying doesn't help. It's just preaching nihilism (and thus is false around the inflection point of the present moment--in other words maybe this moment could be no other way, but holding the attitude that future moments can be no other way and therefore don't merit attention or effort is in itself portending that result by creating that nihilistic condition of mind). Please don't respond with nonduality riddles in the effort to sound like a master. That's not what I'm looking for.

Emptiness (Unconditional) Love Nonduality All basically the same.