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?‍♂️ I never said it was separate things except for in the perspective of a person. I talk about it like separate things because I'm coaching for specific lucid dreaming techniques. This is a hotline for lucid dreaming, not a place to debate about nonduality. This is a safe place, for all who merely wish to learn lucid dreaming. If someone needs to explain that astral projection is or isn't dreaming or real life or super lucid dreaming, thats really interesting stuff for a separate thread. And I really mean that, truly. If I seemed at all bothered, it was because I have been clear on the purpose of this thread from the beginning, if you read any of those posts.

@Leo Gura for me personally, I didn’t take a lot of drugs. But when I did I experienced nonduality. On weed. On LSD I wasn’t able to make sense at the time what was happening to me, but after walking the path with meditation 2 years later I remembered the experience. My LSD trip was a horrible bad trip. I had mixed alc, weed and a small dose of lsd in a bad location with friend I thankfully knew really well. Not to say I’m scared of reaching the final stage, but could it happen that I become schizophrenic. Because everything is already so psychotic, but in the most lovely and peaceful way imaginable. I try to make sense of all of this, I just can’t. I don’t understand why things are the way they are. It is amazing to talk to people like you @Leo Gura that share the same level of understanding and even higher. Thank you for your time.

I've been following Leo for quite some time on youtube, but I didn't thought before to also check this website. It's a nice surprise that it also has a forum, so that I can make my ideas known and thus contribute to the advancement of science in the study of consciousness. Therefore... My work on consciousness can be found here: https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan There is also a video there that I presented at the Science & Nonduality conference, though I highly recommend reading the papers. We can discuss here various topics that you find interesting from my work, or you can open individual topics. The main ideas that I think I bring new is the idea that consciousness is structured on a holarchy of emergent levels and the idea that this is done by an entity that I call self-reference. For example, in the visual domain this would be the qualia of: black-and-white -> shades-of-gray -> colors -> shapes -> objects -> full visual scene. The characteristic of the emergent structure of consciousness being that each level includes and transcends the previous level. This can be explored in "The Emergent Structure of Consciousness" paper. Then, in "The Self-Referential Aspect of Consciousness" I show how this structure is obtained by self-reference, which is an entity with the property of looking-back-at-itself. By looking-back-at-itself, self-reference includes and transcends its previous self. Because of this property, self-reference is unformalizable. Also, this means that it is no-thing and every-thing, both at the same time. And this also leads to what Leo is teaching that I am God. Because of its unformalizable nature, self-reference is not a thing, but at the same time, it also generates and is all the things, all qualia, so all consciousnesses are forms of manifestation of self-reference, self-reference which can be taken to be God. In the other papers, I apply these ideas to all sorts of cases, like in "The Quale of Time" I show how time is also a quale part of the emergent structure of consciousness, and in "On the Phenomenon of Unification" I show how the dynamics of self-reference is responsible for the unification of consciousnesses (like what happens with the 2 "brain" hemispheres) and for telepathy (which I postulate to be a case of consciousnesses unification). You can also buy my book, to help me financially, though the book is formed from my papers put together, so you can just read the papers. I will gladly like to know what you think about my ideas and it would be nice if together we can help push forward the advancement of science such as to make consciousness its primary field of study.

Does nondual science include conventional science? No, because nondual science is itself a dualistic model. All models are dualistic. Instead nondual science can be seen as a pointer to nonduality. The belief in separate causes is a necessary stage of development. And the crystallized ego is a product of society which itself still is at the personal stage of development. So ego development is useful up to a point. It's only when the trick of separate causes has been recognized where ego demolishment becomes useful and necessary.

Never-ending love We’ve been doing this for eternity... Loving ourselves Infinitely Endlessly... Beingness The gentle pain of existence Softly caresses the echoes of your heart And when you feel tired It turns and hugs As the shiver on your skin Giving you a kiss The curse of that endlessness An infinite desire from separateness Taking a lifetime of beingness To give you the love from wholeness I sometimes feel All of my life in one single undivided moment All the emotions All the beauty All the love All the pain At once... Sacred tree Sacred tree Sitting alone In a dream Its arms folding Onto the beams of light The dream is asleep It speaks a thousand tongues In and out of its being Through the blood it drank In this realm of beauty Being a part of grace It seeps into you and me Fueling the voices of our pain The sacred tree speaks... It was once nothing Through the endless being It became something Nonduality, duality Existence and essence All are moving and being Living and dying Loving and hating Without time The gift The gift Of existence Something we granted ourselves It is through eternity That we see the bliss in mortality It is through difficulties That we can love without pain It is from the words that we sang That we hear the truth speak In silence We see the lives of infinite beings Living Through the cycles of love and pain And being aware of here We felt the love from that sacred place Speaking, without a word Being, love. Transcendence The bell rings at the wake of dawn Singing the echo of that holy song Where in this moment we shall sit And await the presence of next gong The wind is howling about a secret Of the magical beauty in the now As it flew, it kissed my skin And took away all my wrongs The drum beating in my chest Speaking the words of divine love Where no mind nor thoughts, Can disturb this song I am... Nothing more

This is profoundly not helpful. I already understand the "absolute sense" of infinite causality and thus the apparent illusion of free will and choice. Pragmatically, what you're saying doesn't help. It's just preaching nihilism (and thus is false around the inflection point of the present moment--in other words maybe this moment could be no other way, but holding the attitude that future moments can be no other way and therefore don't merit attention or effort is in itself portending that result by creating that nihilistic condition of mind). Please don't respond with nonduality riddles in the effort to sound like a master. That's not what I'm looking for.

Emptiness (Unconditional) Love Nonduality All basically the same.

@Mafortu I was referring to nonduality being in the same sentence as "they perceive themselves". Ultimate nonduality means there is no "I" to perceive itself. It is transcendent, formless, Consciousness itself In other words, nobody on the planet gets to directly experience Tat. We can feel our connection with it and with everything else, but we are still bound to a personal perspective. We are Atman realizing ourselves as Brahman, but we are not Brahman. We are the ray of the sun, realizing our connection with the sun, but we are not the sun.

See what you did there? You can directly realize nonduality, but it is still from "your" perspective. Nonduality from the ultimate perspective is only possible when you are free from form, i.e., when "you" no longer exist. Atman vs. Brahman.

I am aware of this, I am asking for those that are directly conscious of nonduality if they perceive themselves as both dead and alive at the same time. (formlessness, and formed)

Then there's no reason to stop watching. Esoteric references can be a nice gateway to true spirituality. There's some abuse potential as with anything though. I personally think a huge portion of famous people are serious about magick, some probably even nonduality - like Bruce Lee. Mastering some of the spiritual principles can definitely help you become successful in the material world.

By defining anything as "that which is", you are categorically excluding the nothingness outside of "that which is". That nothingness is "that which is not". By definition, it cannot be "that which is". From the ultimate perspective, definition itself is nonsensical. If ultimate reality is nondualistic, you cannot separate, including separating anything from nothing. This is the futility of trying to comprehend ultimate reality. It is impossible for the human mind. Nonduality is singularity. It is everything that exists, and every nothing that does not exist. It is reality and it is unreality. It is manifested and it is unmanifested. Don't try to understand it. Just be it

The whole world is relieved today. It is truly fascinating to be here, right at the frontier of our history, to be experiencing the future of our little bubble taking shape. Nonduality aside. (Minus the irony) Today was powerful. Glad to be here. It is deeply satisfying for me, aesthetical and romantic, to share existence with y'all, as we hurtle forward in space and time. Okay, wuf, activating nonduality again now.

@Rilles It's the level of politics I'm thinking of. Running the entire U.S. government is a huge operation. It may seem easy, but we only see the surface presentation of it. It's similar to how I believe Sadhguru is at stage Turquoise with an ability to teach nonduality to huge and basically mainstream audiences. Sadhguru makes is look easy and he even said that for him it is easy. It would hardly be easy for someone at the first tier level of Spiral Dynamics.

Yeah, as is real-unreal. Nonduality points to the neither real nor unreal.

Nothingness "Underneath the condition when you are awake and aware, and beneath the condition when you are in bed at night and dreaming, there is the deep-sleep condition. Here, there are no thoughts, there is no “you”, no mind, no relationships, no other, nor world, or universe. There is merely a condition of empty presence, no-thing-ness. Everything, every form, event, etc., is superimposed on this empty presence, by the mind in the waking or dreaming state. But the organism, the body, continues to exist despite these daily reoccurrence of emptiness. This condition in which there is no mind, no thoughts, no forms, and no you, is the “ground” state, your natural state. This empty presence is the condition of the organism before its birth (and its conditioning and the arising of the I-thought), and will be its condition once again upon the death of the form of “your life”. In other words, an organism appears to arise within empty presence, matures, and recedes again into empty presence (similar to the way an electron arises and recedes in the quantum field). The organism knew nothing of existence or nonexistence before birth, and will know nothing after death: “You” will not know that you— or anything else— ever had “existed”. Recognizing the fleeting temporality of “existence” – and that existence will be completely non-existent, in due course— it becomes clear that not anything that you do, think, feel or say has any lasting significance or meaning. (This is the message of the Bhagavad Gita.) All that appears, to the organism, to be done is merely a momentary expression of the field of ever-present beingness—utterly lacking in lasting reality. This is why it is said, in the nondual writings, that “nothing really matters”. It is also why it is said that (as a book about Papaji is titled) “nothing ever happened.” All that we learn in advaita is intending to point our attention to nothingness. (And not its “existence” or “nonexistence”, since where there is nothing, neither of these are applicable.) In other words, the intention of advaita, or nonduality, is to direct us to ajata. And, I would say, a thorough understanding of the former is necessary in order to comprehend the latter. When we come to recognize that, in truth, there is nothing from the start, we understand what is meant when it is said that all that we perceive is simply a dream, an illusion— seemingly superimposed on ever-lasting empty presence. Now, is this information simply an interesting “analysis”, or does this have practical value? Someone recently sent me a book by the Dalai Lama, and I’ll extract a few quotes. All phenomena are empty. Emptiness pervades not only your individual ego or sense of self, but the whole of reality…That emptiness of mind is its ultimate nature, or mode of being. To realize that, is to pierce and see through the deception of ignorance…freedom from ignorance (is called) nirvana… Realizing emptiness is directly related to our quest to purify our mind of afflictive emotions like hatred, anger, and desire…We project onto things a state of “existence”, and a mode of being which is simply not there…. This understanding of emptiness..is one of the principal factors of the true path….For such an insight cuts right through the illusion created by the mis- apprehension of grasping things and events as existing… We realize the emptiness of all phenomena, not just the mind and body of the individual. In my favorite story about Ramana Maharshi, a man came into the room where Ramana held satsang, said he’d written a biography of Ramana and asked permission to read it. Ramana smile and nodded, and the man read his manuscript. It was full of inaccuracies and error: he said that Ramana was married and had children, that he’d been a Socialist before his enlightenment, and on and on. When he finished reading, Ramana smiled and nodded, and the man picked up his manuscript and left. One of Ramana’s disciples cried out, “Master, did you hear what he read? Is any of that real?!” Ramana waved his hand as if taking in the universe, and asked: “Is any of this real?” -- Ajata project (Robert Wolfe)

Perhaps just meditate and figure out what you want. Nonduality is the story that cuts through all the other ones. It may resonate. Head in tiger’s mouth, if you are there, you wait for it to either bite off your head/ego, or not.

You can predict he will win but how do you get that hes turquoise? These are turquoise values taken from the mega thread as a reminder - Consciousness Elevating mankind’s consciousness Truth Deep metaphysical insight Wisdom, the wisdom of nature Mysticism, spirituality, nonduality God, divinity Holism, integration, synthesis vs analysis Integrating all religions & science Left & right brain synthesis Honesty, transparency, authenticity Being vs knowing, doing, having Simplicity, flowing with nature Minimalist sustainable living Collaborative synergy Human wellness Healing at all levels: physical, emotional, spiritual Exploring altered states of consciousness Intuition Channeling: direct downloads from infinite intelligence Supernatural creativity Spiritual purification Awakening, transcendence, liberation Unconditional love, compassion for all Emotional mastery Presence, mindfulness Paradox Esoteric teachings Gratitude Unity Deeper & deeper levels of interconnectedness Selfless living Sacrifice self for greater consciousness Meditation, yoga, contemplation, self-inquiry Not-knowing Humility Spontaneity, playfulness, self-amusement The really big picture

I'm just posting this genuinely out of curiosity. If its not high quality enough, feel free to lock it and let me know. Recently my perception has changed a little. Its been happening for more then a month now, and it gets stronger by the day. The main thing is... everyone's face is starting to look super alien like. Its like I'm in an alien society and looking at all these aliens. The facial features of each human gives me a strong sense of abstraction, unfamiliarity, deep intelligence that I'm unaware of. Also each person is giving me a strong strong strong sense that they work in ways that is deeply mysterious. Its like I don't know how this person thinks at all. There's no ultimate logic, pattern, system or script that this person is working off, they are working off pure mystery. I'm not using mystery as a scapegoat for lack of understanding them, what I mean is, the most advanced, enlightened alien lifeform could not demystify how a human being works, and how they think. They can make estimates and predictions but not know fully. And this just adds to the feel that I'm in some sort of alien society. This feeling is not mild. Its deeply strong, it is indistinguishable from the scenario that I was abducted by humans and put on earth from some other planet. I know that you can link this to nonduality and spirituality, but its not really spirituality, its more related to paranormal psychology. This is a paranormal aspect happening within me, consciousness work is a superset or beyond what I'm talking about here. I'm wondering if there are resources, links, or others that feel a very very very strong sense that humans are aliens, just because I'm super curious about it. I'm not really looking for crazy beliefs, I want stuff that is directly grounded in empirical evidence and experience and knowing.

Love is nonduality, pretty simple if you ask me.

I live up north where seasons are really dramatically different and the days get really short in the winter. I used to absolutely hate Fall. I'm more open minded now. In my experience, there is a VERY different energy about Fall, that can be very dark, depressing and even scary if you misinterpret it. If you embrace it rather than avoid it, understanding nonduality, ( no light without dark, blah blah), it goes much better. I heard someone say recently that spring is about beauty and fall is about wisdom and that really resonated. It's a time for going inward, rest, stillness and letting go of stuff.

Well said. Suffering happens when we resist reality. We complain about what is, and we want what is not. It's like the Chinese finger trap. The more you fight to escape, the tighter the trap becomes. The secret to freedom is to embrace the trap by pushing your fingers into it. Only then does it release its hold. Some people spend their entire lives suffering by resisting what happens to them, when they might have enjoyed beauty and peace through acceptance. Nonduality = Reality = Integrity = Clarity = Wholeness = Peace

I'm mad at you for making such silly claims about nonduality

I’m cool with people creating constructs of “awakening” and saying psychedelics won’t help in achieving that goal. For example, if we define awakening as learning to speak a foreign language fluently, psychedelic use probably won’t help. A better method would be to live within the foreign culture for 3-4 years such that you have to speak the language 24/7. Yet if someone makes rapid progress using psychedelics and is speaking the foreign language fluently in 1 year, it’s silly to say their fluency doesn’t count because they didn’t do it the old fashioned way. Yet if someone tried to use psychedelics to learn the language and was babbling nonsense, then it’s fair to say psychedelics didn’t help. . . And this is based on their own standards. We could create various constructs of “awakening”. We could create constructs of “awakening” that would be extremely difficult to realize without psychedelics. Yet if someone did it sober, my hat is off to him. There are some things spiritualists like Deepak Chopra say and I’m like “Dang, how did he realize that without psychedelics? That’s impressive”. Yet some people are spiritually gifted. I wasn’t one of those people. This is why direct experience is so important. Ten years ago, I was confused by Zen koans, sutras, Rupert Spira, Buddhist dharma talks, nonduality, neo-advaita etc. I didn’t get it and couldn’t speak that language. Now I get it and can have conversations in that language. It’s silly to me for someone to ask what percentage of that understanding came from sober meditation, time in nature, listening to nonduality speakers, psychedelic trips, Kriss yoga, vinyasa yoga, journaling, sensory deprivation tanks etc. And if the percentage of insights that came from psychedelics is over a certain threshold, it means the person who speaks the language isn’t really speaking the language? What percentage would this be? If 27% of my understanding came from psychedelic trips, is that too much? What is I did yoga on a micro-dose of LSD? Does that count as a “yoga-induced insight” or a “psychedelic-inducted insight”? And it’s all inter-connected. Some insights might be seeded during a psychedelic trip, yet appear as a “catchable” insight the next day while walking in nature. Does that count as a psychedelic insight or a sober nature insight? Creating two categories of “sober” or “psychedelic” is overly simplistic. Those that do cannot see how it’s all inter-related.

I've discovered that going through 'the path' has left me with some side effects or 'junk' which was necessary at the beginning but isn't anymore. The sort of stuff I'm talking about is judgements and negative emotions of those who oppose nonduality as a possibility. For example those normies who judge Leo's videos of science as just him being a deluded guru. Or when some authority medical board says that natural medicines are a hoax or healing is a hoax. A strong negative emotion arises and a bit of anger occurs whenever I see such comments being made. Although I have a desire to understand them, have compassion for them, see things from their point of view, accept them, love them and be in harmony with them. What are some ways of apply that?