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my family said that my sister was going to sing in a choir. I decided to go to church. I didn't tell my family my true motives, and they thought it was to listen to the music. My true motives are to do two things. One to drop my fears and judgements surrounding religion. I would like to be more than just an ego defined by being non religious because this creates a shadow. Secondly, I am considering the possibility that I could use nearby churches to create experiences similar to what I can get through exercises in various spiritual books. In one of these experiences I panicked as I merged with all of existence as this entire experience is nothingness just like me. This was a glimpse, but if I could panic less, then that would help. My main motive is to conquer my fears and become more capable of love. I questioned my judgements of religion. A common one is that they are dogmatic, and many spiritual teachers echo this. The problem with using terms like "religion" is that it refers to billions of people with a ton of variety. Even just "Christian" is such a broad term referring to a billion people. When I think things like "Christians are fill in the blank" this is such a generalization that it seems racist. I decided to challenge my judgements by comparing and contrasting all of the different sects in Christianity at least. I could do this with other religions as well. It is possible that some religions are more developed than I am given how fearful and judgemental I am over the issue. I don't think my mind is mature enough to join a high conscious stage turquoise religion because I am far too judgemental to be able to handle it. I know not all religions are dogmatic because there are progressive, liberal, and liberation Christians. Martian Luther King Jr. Was a liberation Christian and these movements challenge culture and commonly accepted dogmas. Some versions of Christianity accept science rather than insisting that the bible is infallible which is what I typically think of when I hear "Christian." I read about 13 different ancient sects of Christianity. The adamites were interesting because they were naked during meetings and rejected the notion of absolute good and evil. Usually when I hear "Christian" I think of a dogmatic moral absolutist. Sometimes I imagine a Christian trying to stab me in the name of spreading his interpretation. The fearful response I have to this image drives my judgements of religion as my survival becomes about rejecting these ideologies. As a result I feel lost in life because I am in conflict with these images rather than exploring reality to its fullest. This fear is similar to how I responded to moral relativism initially when I imagined being shot in the head. This is an emotional reaction and I am not capable of changing this unless I meditate on the emotions and observe them rather than attacking the content of my thoughts as I typically do. To give you a poem discovered in a Nag Hammadi Library in 1945. The Thunder, Perfect Mind For I am knowledge and ignorance. I am shame and boldness. I am shameless; I am ashamed I am strength and I am fear. I am war and peace. (I am God). I might add this at the end of the poem.

How does “fuck it’s just imagination” help your case though? Isn’t your co-worker still there disliking you? Like it still actually exists it’s just that the whole thing is sustained and made out of nothingness I guess primarily you could say.

The good thing is that your direct experience isn't finite, unlike your imagination. You can experience things that aren't finite, which is actually happening right now, even if you're imagining that you aren't. Experiencing nothingness is not really a problem. You can experience it to know what is true. You know it's true cause you experienced it. You basically have two ways of understanding things: direct experience and imagination. If you want to really understand nothingness, experience is your best option. Then afterwards, maybe you can imagine certain words or ideas that point to the experience of nothingness, but aren't actually the experience itself. Using words and concepts isn't entirely bad, it might help someone reach the experience, or map it out for practical relative use. But of course, words and ideas are just pointers, not the actual experience itself. I can actually tap into the fact that I am experiencing nothingness right now, to a certain degree. And that as a result, I am also infinite. I'm able to very easily recontextualize my current experience, because of my previous experience of nothingness. It made the implications of nothingness and how it interacts with life very clear to me. I just have to look at my current experience and convert it to imagination/words. In a sense, yeah. In order to be nothing you have to be conscious that you are nothing. If you're not conscious of it, then it basically doesn't exist. You are nothingness, to a certain degree, right now. And also as a result of that, you're also infinite, right now. The question is whether you're conscious of it or not, similar to how you became conscious of how everything is being imagined, when previously you weren't conscious of it at all even though it was already the case.

Perhaps, it could be a number of things. The strain I took, my personality + biases etc. I have only done shrooms about a dozen times so perhaps ill change my mind in the future (I probably sound like a broken record by now). But from observing my own mind it appears that you you can go very deep with the use of psychedelics but they in and of themselves will not guarantee that anything in particular will happen, probing reality still needs to actively happen and it might not happen on its own (although it could if that is naturally where you are at in life). For me - if there is a sense of my identity, if "I" exist then so do my biases and the conditioning that I have grown up with. And because the shrooms will x10 what im inquiring into, even if its a bias it will appear very deep and profound since the shrooms let me zoom in so much but really its just mental masturbation. And it might be true too, in a way that pushes you to improve yourself but still, there are distortions when trying to figure out what is true if the "I" exists. Whereas when I was at the state where I was imagining reality "I" didn't exist, so there was less distortion. But once I came back down, I fear I might have somewhat distorted what I saw/experienced afterwards. Wow this is really good stuff, I appreciate you pointing this out. But help me understand this, if nothingness is part of nothing then nothing is itself something (but only in the relative) and that thing is infinite, which cant be imagined or categorized from a relative perspective (which is finite) then I agree it does create a paradox. So then what can you do to know what is true ? If we are finite in the relative space, and can only imagine finite do you then have to be nothing, or infinity/god to grasp what actually is true?

Here's some questions that might make it easier to contemplate the first question: How do you know whether something exists or not? What's the difference between something that exists and something that doesn't exist? What's the criteria? That's pretty interesting. So it basically multiplies how powerful your contemplations are, but that power can also be misused for egoic thoughts. Well, it would be quite limiting if reality had some sort of substance behind itself. If it's made of nothing, then there's nothing to limit it. Not to mention, anything "below it" could only ever exist as imagination. And no, nothingness isn't really a part of anything. Nothingness is infinite, not finite, so it actually doesn't fit within your finite criteria. Nothingness is part of nothing, and it exists. It's a paradox. You're trying to put something infinite into a finite criteria, so you're met with a paradox. You also can't imagine nothingness, because you can only imagine things in finitudes, and nothingness is infinite. Then there's also the problem of infinite transgression. If the big bang created everything, then what created the big bang, and what created the thing that made the big bang, and so on.

it is empty nothing or just simply nothing,? the impossibility to have the notion of Nothingness, I think it's important to not get lost with more Ideas.

Since God is infinite, the actual embodiment and exploration never ends. God just keeps giving and giving through eternity, forever. Death in my view is actually not the intended purpose of reality or to cease to exist, because if you will cease to exist when you die, the entire reality is utterly meaningless and it is just matter in motion and a random fluke, does reality seem that way to any human if they are honest with themselves and not playing coy as atheists? But we humans love meaning, we are seeking and desiring the infinite and eternal, we are the epitome of creation, to continue to explore and to be co creators with the one who created every thing out of nothingness. We are sons and daughters of God.

@Judy2 Agreed:) And that nothingness is identical to Love.

@Arthogaan Thank you but I haven’t mastered meditation, still very much a beginner. The deepest access to this formless consciousness, the self, has occurred during formal meditation practice. Infinity, or God are also appropriate words. Yet even those words and this writing do an enormous disservice to what is being pointed to. It’s not an experience, state, or perception and cannot be captured. Because it is completely independent of all qualia/experience, it persists even during dreamless sleep. The strange paradox is that this pure nothingness can start to reveal itself at deeper and deeper levels as we practice, despite being completely independent of all qualities. I don’t have access to this pure nothingness during deep sleep. But when there’s a lot of concentration, sensory clarity, and equanimity, yeah. Doing self inquiry or dzogchen like practices are when it’s most available, but Ive been experimenting with trying to practice vipassana while absorbed in the nothing. It tends to suck the mind in and totally obliterate conceptual sense making. Attention becomes too present, too now, for any coherent thoughts to exist, as all thoughts and concepts rest on the creation of time. Ive had what I consider to be “mini” cessation events when attempting to bring attention to this. Im not sure whether it’s 8th jhana or cessation but all perception starts to very briefly blink out of existence and all that “remains” is that pure, changeless consciousness that persists between waking, dreaming, and dreamless sleep. Don’t misunderstand though, I still have tons and tons and tons of bullshit to work through. Neurotic thinking and self clinging, suffering, and stress are what make up the majority of my day. Being able to access such deep states and touching truth has shown just how much work there is left to do to really live in alignment with what is true. It’s been beyond humbling.

The self remains in dreamless sleep. So yes it is the same. This pure nothingness is also called awareness in some traditions and can become aware of itself while in the waking state.

Hope this post helps you on your journey. These insights and learnings have been gained through a lot of sweat and tears. Part I: What am I existentially? Close your eyes. Imagine having no vision at all. Not even the ability to perceive darkness. Just complete loss of vision. Yet you remain. Cover your ears. Imagine having no hearing at all. Not even the ability to perceive silence. Yet you remain. Now imagine having no body at all. Yet you remain. What you are, metaphysically, is a complete void. A zero. Infinite. You see, nothingness is uncreated, it is required. Imagine nothing, since it is nothing, it needed no creator. It always was. Nothing is equal to zero, which equals infinite positive numbers paired with infinite negative numbers and infinite combinations. A system of balanced energy that always equals to zero. This is called frequency. All color, sound, touch is nothing but frequency, number. Nothingness is infinite in all degrees. Everything is mind. You may also replace mind with spirit. Part II: The Universe Complete fantasy. There is no physical, external universe with "space" in which you move. The true universe is the present moment you are experiencing. It is a mindspace, not a physical box full of matter. Part III: Time Time is actually running "backwards" but we perceive it inversely. Watch the video below. The "matter" or "objects" seem to control the human, not the other way around. The matter or objects you see are just refractions of your infinite mind. PAST = FUTURE FUTURE = PAST It also renders gravity useless. Another invention. Part IV: What is reality? Reality is a VR experience created with infinite intelligence by nothingness itself, so that it could experience itself from a multiplicity of viewpoints for eternity. You see, reality is a possibility pool. Basically everything, every possibility has already happened outside of time and space. That means this very moment you are "living" has happened an infinite number of times, and will continue to happen as it is infinite. THIS IS A REPLAY. As you navigate your "life" and make choices, you are forking your POV, recalling these moments that have already happened outside of time and space, and they materialize as reality for you. The "universe" is rendered as needed by the POV. Much like in a dream. Part V: Other People This is going to be controversial, but I can assure you it is true. This right now, this instance of consciousness that is reading these words is the only POV in existence. This present moment is all there is. Imagine that you record yourself for a full day playing a bunch of characters. You do 30 impressions and you record them on video. You then decide to wipe your memories of making the videos, and decide to watch one movie each day for 30 days, yet you don't know that it was you playing those characters. All other people are unreal, because again, *everything* happened in eternity. Your life is the infinite forking of possibilities in this pool. In this case, your life is one of these movies, and once it's over, there is another movie to play. You and I are not conscious at the same time, it's an illusion. That means that this field that is conscious of these words, is the same field that held Jesus' life, Buddha's life, etc. You are walking in some big shoes. It is literally the same consciousness. Part VI: Your Senses You believe that you have a brain that renders colors, sound and touch to get you your "reality", but in true reality you are hallucinating everything around you. Your imagination is so powerful that it is indistinguishable from "reality". Part VII: Magic I can personally attest to the fact that magic is real. I have had a NDE + multiple awakenings. Magic is a feature of nothingness as there is nothing to oppose nothingness. Part VI: Death Doesn't exist. Death has always been a first-person experience you are having of others "dying", but no one has died ever, because no one has lived, ever. Again, it's an illusion. When you "die", you are reborn as another POV.

1) inspect what you would define as imaginary. 2) inspect what you would define as real. *Stop here if you are truly interested in Knowing, read on if you want more ideas to think about * 3) realize that neither of these definitions would apply to a 5 year old autistic child because they would be immersed into the space you pulled the questions out of. 4) realize that if there was an answer to a conceptual question, that answer is only able to compare it to something else, and can not possibly shine light on the truth for you. 5) the appearance of imagination is real. The appearance of present reality includes imagination. The truth includes all appearances before the questions or conceptualizations arise. 6) because nothing adds up to everything, and everything adds up to nothing, there’s no actual basis in dirext experience for the question/answer system. It’s just comparing one appearance to another appearance. 7) The Universe is like a timeless mystical vision, a mirage made of self-luminous nothingness, singularly projected as the Spirit of God. Spirit appears as something that is not quite explainable, that is immeasurable beyond relation to itself, such as temperature, density, form, movement, color, sound, and brightness. These Spirit qualities interweave at infinitely complex levels, shapeshifting, forming and balancing each other on the stage of emptiness. These qualities all know themselves directly, there is no such awareness beyond the sensations as they arise. Ultimately they add up to nothingness, and must maintain the appearance of movement/change to be seen as anything at all. 8) The actual meaning of it all is to bask in the mystique, but even that is meaningless. You can do literally anything you want. As God is like infinite being, fully complete being manifests in fully complete forms forever. Every form is the knowledge of itself and there’s no logical explanation for it, it’s pure Miracle. 9) There is no cause of anything.

You answered it. Nothingness...

Okey i watched the video. It seems he's pointing to nothingness/self realization which is a bit different. I think in the death book you quoted he is referring to total dissolution.

Nirvana is the state of non-duality where you don't differentiate between somethingness and nothingness, you love both as a unified whole.

@Barna How can I get some of that Peace you are talking about? That's what I want the most. I am not afraid of peace at all (I think). That's why deep dreamless sleep is the best thing in the entire universe from my perspective. I love pure nothingness. This is Nirvana I guess. And Samsara is all the sh!t we have to go through. Survival is a type of hell even if you are a billionaire.

I feel like this might be a linguistical riddle somehow... You want to know if other people are real? Probably you would have to first springboard into what real means to you, and also what element of your own self is real... Your own self can be seen to be an appearance taking place within the screen rather than the screen itself, e.g. you are only made up of present experience. There's no actual solid tangible thing that is you which you can ever grab hold of. Your thoughts now change, your sight, sounds, all of these things change. There's a backdrop to these things which is by itself totally nothing at all, which you call "your consciousness". Did you exist on your 10th birthday party? It isn't currently appearing on that screen within apparent time but you'd probably say so... And what about me, my experience is not appearing within that screen in apparent time either... What's the difference between you on your 10th birthday and me writing this message? The only difference is the ego and memory which takes the recording of your 10th birthday and says "yes I remember that so it was me"... You would call it solipsistic if only "your" experiences happened (like your past birthdays) even though the only thing tying them to you in reality is memory and ego. There is no more reason to distrust your existence as there is to distrust the existence of myself 5 minutes ago. There is nothing more real about you compared to me, nothing is really within a past/present/future framework. Now is not a moment within time, time appears and moves through it. All elements of me right now in the "present" are also appearances on that screen of inherent nothingness. The most "aware" you can be is when you are completely dissolved into the NON-moment called "now". Unlike the material delay between light entering your eyes and the mind producing an image, there is no delay between awareness and now. They are the same thing. And that is infinity. I didn't know how to discuss the linguistical issue (which seems like saying "how can nothing exist when the two words contradict", where language is used as though it were mathematic). Hopefully something within this wall was useful though.

Lol @ your username and avatar, very nice. Imagination = horrible term. Consciousness = horrible term too to a large extent... A better word is "creation". We are pure creation itself. In fact you can't STOP creating no matter how hard you try. If you stopped creating any objects then there is nothing to be aware OF, and just nothingness by itself, which is not experienced, and thus a time skip like a coma until experience begins again. Since you are talking scientifically then you know that everything you experience is not the actual world but the product of your brain... So for example you aren't actually seeing a tree as it really is, you are seeing a representation of it manufactured within the mind. So a science class explanation is like, photons bounce off the object, enter your eye, the signal is sent to your brain, the brain interprets the signal and renders an image. THE IMAGE IS THE THING YOU KNOW. Hence your entire experience of reality is entirely subjective... And then you will be thinking people could be wrong about objective reality. A person in psychosis could be seeing floating pink elephants, and nobody else can see the pink elephants. So they are "wrong" about consensus reality... That's not the element being explored, it's moreso what "objective reality" is made of. What physical matter of any kind is made of. Which is ultimately nothing which could ever logically be a tangible material substance of any kind... And you can find directly the nothingness which is consciousness. See "Sunyata" and its explanations for the inherent nothingness of "pure consciousness" as it were...

To have form - which is limitation. Otherwise you would be formless nothingness - pure Infinity.

What if phenomena never “arose” and there was just a blank slate forever and ever(blackness/nothingness) with no consciousness or awareness. Would it ultimately not matter because regardless of what appears there’s only THIS? I know there’s only THIS but if there was just nothingness forever then there would never be conscious awareness of nonduality or THIS (which I guess doesn’t matter). Trying to work this out internally and it’s confusing the heck out of me. Any pointers or advice to clear this up is welcome. Thanks

@Bruins8000 nothingness is so empty that couldn't do anything than look like something... Contemplate on that.

And if there only is this frame that is morphing within itself, then I also must be imagining the bodies and memories and selves etc of all others also, and the minds etc of all others also. Then there only must be the void that is appearing as all that is, created by nothing, out of nothing. But then the existence must be nothingness that is being imagined by itself, hmm. Being imagined by itself, hmm. Being imagined by itself. But then what is your i, is it one with me, is it me, in a, hmm, hmmm. If awareness appears as a frame that is morphing within itself, then does awareness become another universe when it appears as another frame? If the frame needs no history and so forth to become itself, then, hmm, then the frame is being itself. Being itself, hmmm.

It may appear that way, however this will create non-acknowledged suffering because nothingness is not truly nothingness but simply a subtler body than the mental/emotional body and that subtle body is still and spacious and detached enough to make you believe you have arrived. The unacknowledged suffering is ultimately your salvation because it hopefully triggers back the suppressed seeking at some point. The seeking energy is your ticket to the absolute, it is more valuable than any realization or understanding, it is basically your lifeline. It does not fundamentally come from a self or body, but rather it is god endlessly begging and encouraging you to come back home. To realize you are not a cluster of thoughts/sensations is great and beautiful and expansive, but it doesn't mean you can silence god's whispers. Common! There must be more magical stuff to life than boring compensatory negations like no mind, no self, nothingness, etc. You know it in your heart bro!

I would have to say that the biggest trap I have observed is to believe the realization of "nothingness" or no self means your seeking is over.

Did you ever experienced being fed up with existence?..like you don't want to exist anymore? Not because of negative experiences but just that existence itself is tiresome? I think back to the time before I was born and it was paradise. Existing in pure formlessness is all you could ever want .that's why the objective of Buddhism is to get rid of the cycle of birth and death and cease to exist and enter nirvana which is basically another word for nothingness. Can anyone relate?