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A really interesting episode. @Leo Gura You used similar terms borrowed from mathematical logic, such as tautology, to describe reality as Christopher Langan, who's the reputation for being smartest man in the America. Have you acquainted yourself with his work and his theory of everything (CTMU) that claims to prove existence of god with these kinds of tautological cognitive models? I think that based on his youtube interviews, he seems to be tier 2 stage yellow with ideas that resemble nonduality, but the idea that reality could be proven from logic and mathematics, i.e from the ruleset/content of this dream is his blind spot as a hyperlogical person.

So i figured that i haven't spent enough time contemplating, and this post is meant as an exercise,and also to see potential holes in my understanding. Since the first times i took acid, but especially after my 600mcg breakthrough (i've posted the trip report for anyone interested) i can access lower levels of psychedelic-like understanding all the time. My imagination just explodes with insight especially when i smoke weed but also when i'm sober (yes it's weird). This skill grows the more i become conscious, the cleaner and healthier my body gets and the more i take psychedelics. So the following is my attempt at putting into words my current experience/way of seeing things. Of course Leo's videos have influenced me A LOT, but this is all just from the top of my head. SO You/Nothingness - is like this infinitely big "room". But because it's infinitely "big" although it's Nothing, it kinda becomes an infinitely dense, infinitely complex "THING". But it's only ONE "thing", so it's not big or small, relative to something else. It's Absolutely big, and yet it's like a DOT. It's Absolutely small, and yet it's like an infinitely complex geometrical figure. it kinda lives in these two paradoxical simultaneous states of being a thing and not being a thing - infinitely complex AND infinitely simple, and every. single. fucking. distinction. anyone could possibly make AND MORE AND MORE AND MORE to infinity It's indistinguishable from nothingness, that's why science will never FIND "it". Nothingness is the floor and the ceiling of Existence all at once. And so it seemingly has two "sides" - The infinite, ever-expanding "space" and the infinite, ever-contracting "dot" (which is the inverted whole "viewed" from within-without (i'm not going to even try to explain stuff like within-without. i hope you get it) This is nonduality = duality! because we have the two parts - the whole, which is one, and the seemingly separate, which has itsef two sides - "nothingness" and "everythingness" mirroring the whole - which paradoxically creates three things, and that by the same logic it creates a fourth thing and a fifth and so on, and infinity is "born". But it's all One. Now, the tendency is to say that "here" we are INSIDE the Universe but it's nature is such that each square centimeter is infinitely filled with the ENTIRE Universe in each infinitely small point wherever you can possibly point to. it has this sort of infinite, BUT CIRCULAR geometry thing about it. So you are always inside AND outside of it (yourself). EVERYWHERE IS OUTSIDE/INSIDE YOURSELF... holy shit language just falls short anyway... Just from this perhaps you can see how something like death is false. Because it's the only thing, nothing can stop it from "running" in any dimensional direction possible. And because "outside" itself is actually "inside" itself, it actually CAN go outside itself too. It's infinite and thus It's SO FUCKIN FAST that it "catches" ITSELF and it can stand next to itself !!! And of course it positioned itself in every possible place - everywhere. And this is really where PERSPECTIVE is born. What we call "i" is standing, for lack of a better term, in the "middle", in between all of the extremes of Nothingness/Consciousness. Here we see the Infinite Pixel of God simultaneously penetrating all dimensions, being Space and every infinitely small nook and cranny of Space, occupying the entirety of Infinity. Balance. But there is also "IT'S" "perspective" which is Oneness, Stillness, Everthingness - Truth! , which is all of itself at once, which is utterly incomprehensible because from it's point of view it doesn't have to "run" anywhere or "do" anything because it is everywhere and it is everything. It's just right now it's accessing a limited part of itself, and the best we can do to kinda get that with "regular human consciousness" is that perfect "nothingness" that spiritual teachers are so in love with, and see the Oneness and Everythingness and blaaaaa but even that is so distorted and sounds so cringe to me because In order to SPEAK Absolute Truth with "human language" one would have to speak forever, for infinity! So therefore everything we say will always get stuck in an extreme of sorts.) And i see there is an ongoing Consciousness balance act or dance between that nothingness and everythingness, an that is what i would call enlightenment, even though actually, that also falls short. i have no idea what enlightenment actually is. Everything is just me/God/Infinity. With the higher dimensions (seemingly) closed, everywhere we look will always (seemingly) be duality/relative, therefore only HALF of God, so to speak (except that they're never really actually closed) In my experience, psychedelics allow access to higher/wackyer dimensions and allow you to fold language (or anything, you're ultimately folding consciousness) in a higher dimension, you get to a HIGHER Truth - relatively speaking. More information. And that Higher knowledge from the infinite library gets more and more complex in all directions, in all colors, in all sounds, all manners possible. Each more creative and innovative than the one before. SERIOUS STUFF!!! it gets more beautiful, but also more dangerous, more pleasurable, but more painful, more ugly, more blissful, more intense, more and more and MORE and MORE of EVERYTHING. To infinity... You can for example speak "languages" where one "letter" or "thought" or "artifact" is the entire possibility of human language. Trying to "obtain" this through meditation and self inquiry but never taking psychedelics is like having a knife, sharpening it everyday but never using it to cut anything ever, and saying that you don't NEED TO, because the purpose is just having a sharp knife... ok, not the best analogy but it's like wtf? So as long as you're viewing yourself from a human body, the whole Thing is mechanical it has pieces/holons - REASONS - so infinite causality is why you CAN'T access psychedelic states without psychedelics - The *reason* for the existence of this dimension is for the other ones to make sense - through contrast! So realize that everything is just the dot (you) everywhere, masqueranding as the atoms, the light, the bed, the body, the thoughts, the sounds etc. etc. and that it can anytime "stop" what it's currently doing (distorting itself, sticking it's head up it's ass thus creating YOU, jk) and see that you are the dot, radiating into your infinite self (falling in love) and you are viewing yourself, pretending to be "things" aka "not you". This is how God hides in plain sight. It won't show itself to you not because it can't, but because you won't let it, because it's you and so you're not letting yourself - because you're not open enough for infinity. Again. All this that i'm saying is not TRUTH! TRUTH can be accessed directly, and you kinda cannot speak of it, other than to say that it's Absolute, or Infinite, or Love or God or Perfect or stuff like that, and even those are distortions, that's how radical it is/you are. So where psychedelics meet self-actualization, consciousness work, spirituality, health and fitness and sex and all aspects of your life is this: In order for psychedelics to work the best with the body, it must be in a certain pristine state - this is what "spiritual purification" is partly about. This is also what "spiritual healing" is all about. It's not that consciousness work heals the body - it indirectly heals the body by making you more aware of the shit that isn't working well and it makes you open and wise and proactive in making things better in every aspect of life, so you go and research your ass off and you fix your gut issues, get the heavy metals out of your brain, feed the body an abundance of CLEAN SOURCES for ALL the vitamins, minerals, essential polyunsaturated fats, water, exercise social&sex stuff, LP etc. etc. etc. And you get all your metaphysics of God/You/infinity/Love in order, you meditate, do inquiry etc. and multiply to infinity, accelerate accelerate accelerate and *then* psychedelics will show you stuff that is truly next level, because it reflects just how amazing and next level you already are (infinite acceleration). And in this way of being that i just described, you're living life in such a divine reflection of your true Being - which is just ... infinite beauty it's so... IT'S SO BRUTALLY BEAUTIFUL!!!! lmao Can you see the dot everywhere? I'm not saying that the point is to see the point everywhere. In fact, at this point i could go on about the point of the point, but i see no point in that, since believe i made sufficient points about the point of the point of the point analogy. (even the letter "i" is a point with a line, that is made out of points... ) Ok ok ok so now everything that i just said i fold in a higher dimension and it becomes a single non-verbal thought, and i forget about the dot and i just see infinity in everything. I see the linear-circular-ness of everything. See how every single little "thing" is simultaneously the biggest/smallest thing. See how no thing is actually A thing, but THE thing - God/You/etc. And something very funny happens, Everything people say suddenly has something strange, something personal about it, every sound, everything that enters "awarenes" is so special and intelligent and deliberate and Perfect! And it's always like this, except that when you're not uber conscious of it, it doesn't seem this way at all. I'm gonna stop there really hope that this helps some of you. You can do anything. Cheers! (see you on the other side!)

Oh man that's one hell of a question. There's so much to say about it I don't even know wehere to start. Religion had and still has a multitude of functions. Those functions are (or are not) required depending on ones situation in life regarding various aspects such as psychological development/maturity, philosophical (i.e. metaphysical, epistemological and ontological) sophistication and perspective, morality (which is 1. probably the largest chunk of them all and 2. not only a distinction between good and bad but mostly a directive for action(which itself depends on many factors)), but also potential for abuse in order to gain power or money and so forth... All these functions and motivations are intricately connected and interdependent. Many people today say that religion is outdated, but that's waaay to simplistic. People who say such things a) don't know very much about religion and b) are in most cases dogmatic about their own philosophy (which is funny and ironic because their behavior basically resembles religious behavior structurally). So to answer your question - you're gonna have to look into it yourself. There's so much to learn about religion, really, it's such an enormous field of study. Check out the Biblical Series on YouTube, it's about the psychological significance of some of the stories from the bible, it's quite eyeopening. That can give you a hint of how deep this can go. And of course Peterson doesn't go as deep as he would have to go because he doesn't understand nonduality or mysticism. Alan Watts was a priest so he has also a lot of content on religion, but he of course understood nonduality and mysticism. Have fun going down the rabbit hole

It's not just Your Mate tom..almost everyone I've met on meditation retreats, ayahuasca circles, and doing bufo have no idea about nonduality.

Just had a thought that was relevant to this thread. All forms are an illusion and part of the ego because everything is one from a nondual perspective. However, nonduality still contains duality. Consciousness explores duality and separation through different forms. You can honor those forms without having the ego latch on to them. In fact, paradoxically, to honor these different forms also requires you to not latch on to any one of them because latching on to one thing prevents you from exploring other things. It's ok to have preferences so long you know they aren't absolute and applicable to everyone or thing.

Julian has no clue what enlightenment or nonduality is. And if you take him seriously, neither will you.

The mind has very serious limits as to what it is able to understand no matter how hard it works because the bottleneck ends up being one's state of consciousness. So releasing that bottleneck becomes the key after a certain point. And the more you invest in the mind the harder it can be to release that bottleneck. The mind ends up trapped in itself and digs its trap even deeper. That is the biggest trap for intellectual people. Daniel needs to hit a bunch of DMT, over and over again to break his entire mind open. He has intellectualized nonduality/awakening, but I sense he has no experience with what it really means to awaken. A very dangerous aspect of Ken Wilber's work -- which I feel Daniel has imbibed a lot of -- is the idea that 1st person phenomena and 3rd person phenomena are two equally valid domains. But this is not true. 1st person phenomena is the only real thing. All 3rd person phenomena is pure illusion, and I don't see Daniel recognizing that. There is still too much attachment to science in him. He does not understand how deeply wrong the science paradigm is. It's utterly, foundationally wrong to the point of not being fixable. You cannot use science to understand the core of reality. Something like evolution does not even exist. It's just a figment of his imagination. Idealism is not a mirror to materialism. Both these guys are profoundly misunderstanding idealism, nonduality, and spirituality. Materialism is hallucinated by Infinite Consciousness. This point is so simple and clear. There is no doubt about it whatsoever. Classic problem here of "So smart he's dumb". This is why I tell people to do psychedelics because you won't get it otherwise. Your consciousness will not allow you to get it no matter how smart you are. But I still admire his intellect. If you want to learn how to think clearly, he's a great role-model.

Frankly, I'd say you are sort of talking about the two axes of self-actualization and enlightenment... they are more like parallel and complementary. If you want to be a happy, whole, actualized, and effective person AND know the absolute truth, you'll need to do both. Neither axis have an "endpoint", though if you get through the Buddhist paths you will be "dwelling in perceptual nonduality," which I suppose is considered enlightenment or liberation or whatever. I think the meditative path is necessary to make this a permanent condition, as the separate self is incredibly entrenched in every aspect of our psyche and sensations, and doing the thousands of hours of work is necessary to really root this out at a physiological level. Ralston-style contemplation (or Kriya yoga) may offer glimpses of enlightenment, and 5-MeO may offer utterly deep peak experiences, but ultimately both fade into "memory" and therefore concept, and thus not the "real thing" per se. But, since it's a journey, obviously those things are very helpful as you progress and probably very necessary steps.

Nonduality is only surfaces, and not even. Each one is experiencing more of what each one focuses on. Comparison thinking can be a real joy (and friendships & relationships) zapper.

https://bgr.com/2021/02/17/life-after-death-proof-for-1-million-dollars-las-vegas-businessman-competition/ Robert Bigelow’s Institute for Consciousness Studies is awarding almost $1 million for an essay on life after death. Application deadline is (February 28) I know you can't prove to someone else what happens after death, as it has to be experienced from direct experience, but if anyone could explain Nonduality well enough, that's about as good as anyone could do.

Law of Attraction points to the experience of your "reality" being far stranger than you think. It goes beyond ideas of legit or not. It's more "true" than most things we consider true though. It deals with the truth we create for ourselves and shows us how to create it consciously. The law of attraction is about having greater awareness and focus, and recognizing that the core of every desire is the desire to feel better. This becomes your focus, over believing your thoughts blindly and continually noticing that you are now where you want to be. It is the basis for change. It is the realization that when we feel amazing, we notice amazing things, and good things and thoughts come to us. When we drop resistance and stop noticing what is thoughts we've never had can come in. An insight is a just a thought you've never had before. Law of attraction would teach you that this approach might be off, if you focus on your blockages and limiting beliefs thinking you need to get rid of them before you are free to create your life, your focus on your limitations is actually holding them in place. Making intentions or rather, allowing your desires, is what bring the blocks into light and is the power and momentum you need to blow through them. Awareness over your thoughts of control reveals your true power. "Purer" is a thought that limits and gets into judgement and good and bad and what other people thing territory. The better feeling your ideas the faster you will attract them into your experience. This is how you and only you measure the purity of them. It's beyond choice and not choice. Allowing desires is also like surrendering them. When you really, really know what you want, there's' no choice at all. For example if I offer you the choice between your favorite desert and your least favorite food, you'd say "it's no choice". It IS but you're just VERY clear about what you want. The awareness that the law of attraction "teaches" makes you very clear about you want in the same way, it's a choice but also at the same time it's not because you're so clear about it. If you're interested in learning more check out Abraham Hicks, she is AMAZING. It's also amazing to see how this all fits in with all this other consciousness work stuff, meditation and nonduality, etc. Not to mention the bliss and happiness, forgiveness, understanding and abundance of new possibility, creativity and ideas that floods in.

Nonduality is “not two”. The materialist paradigm is essentially “two”, “my (1) consciousness (2)”.

@Snt_lk Other people are as real as you are. There is no “concept of nonduality”. That would be two. Nonduality is not-two. (Non-dual)

I can't seem to shake the idea that others don't exist. After watching Leo's "Guided Exercise for Realizing You Are God", I had a moment in which I felt that everyone I knew was a projection, but soon after I found myself asking "But how could they not exist." Every time I saw another person, I questioned whether they were just a part of my imagination or if they are actually having a conscious experience. For example, anyone that replies to this thread could say "others don't exist", maybe evening having the thought that the person who wrote this was a projection of their own imagination, but I on the other side of this thread know that I in fact am not a projection because I am aware as I write this and have consciousness. Perhaps the higher the degree of consciousness, the closer to Nonduality someone gets? Even then, if there are other autonomous units of consciousness, regardless of the degree to which they are conscious, how is it possible that they don't exist altogether? I'm aware that my ego will fill in what I have conceptually striped away and that the more real I believe the Self to be the more real others will be, but then how do I practically experience ongoing Nonduality . I truly do enjoy the concept of nonduality but I'm having some trouble putting it in to practice. Any insights?

https://www.netflix.com/title/80013552?s=a&trkid=13747225&t=cp Here is the link to watch the movie. Moon is in Pisces ♓ (so it's time for some existentially woke shit) The Tale of Princess Kaguya by Studio Ghibli is the most profound and stunning metaphor for nonduality, and the existential sadness (and joy) for living through Earthly lifetimes. I had a full on existential awakening at the end of this movie and cried violently in front of my girlfriend for 20 minutes straight. I highly recommend watching closely. The ending is one of the most mind-blowing and beautiful endings of any movie. The entire movie is a masterpiece that will endure throughout human history as one of the most beautiful pieces of art ever made. The crown jewel of Japan's Walt Disney, Hayao Miyazaki. Also, the nature imagery and unique art style is stunning. He captures the innocence and purity of nature (and also of humans).

I know how deeply frustrating this work can be. Here you are, trying your darndest to wrap your mind around Nonduality and Liberation; and so you read countless threads, watch countless videos and spend countless hours in silent meditation... but the more you try to grasp it, the more it seems to elude you. Instead of gaining clarity, you just seem to become more and more confused. It's like the fight against Hydra: For every head that you cut off, two new heads immediately take its place. The harder you try, the harder you fail! Did you recognize yourself in that description? If so, then I have some good news for you: Your growing confusion and frustration is actually a sign of progress, believe it or not. You are slowly waking up to the fact that none of this can ever be grasped by a thing called "you". But you need to go all the way. I have said in a recent thread that you are not going to understand THIS with your mind. But of course, me telling you this is not enough. You need to realize it for yourself. So by all means, keep on trying to understand. Keep trying and trying and trying and trying and trying and trying until you're blue in the face, until the confusion and frustration becomes so intolerable that you want to scream, until you feel completely powerless to improve your situation in any way, until you are completely at your wit's end and simply don't know what to do anymore... and BAM!, that's the moment where something inside you snaps. It's the moment where you finally let go of the need to understand, and you realize what is. My friend, I wish you all the best, and I sincerely hope that this post has managed to confuse the hell out of you. Have a great day!

Maybe this one https://www.actualized.org/insights/derrida-and-nonduality

I think the word is very useful for this work. I’ve used it as well. It just seemed like you were suggesting it was in some way superior to other words in the earlier posts. THIS has the advantage and disadvantage of making people pay attention only to the here and now. The problem is people probably will never experience THIS as God or infinite or any other counterintuitive things without being pointed in that direction first. Nondualists tend to forget that if all is One and that One is Truth the ego, thoughts, and imagination are also aspects of that One/Truth as much as anything else. Truth in nonduality does not have an opposite.

Of course, we always need to use labels when we talk about Nonduality; such is the nature of language. And every label is useful - until it's not. I assume that 90 percent of people on this forum have already heard a great deal about Infinity, Consciousness, God etc.; I simply try to move the goalpost and use the most neutral label I can think of - THIS - in order to get said people to detach from the mental images of Infinity etc. that they might have developed, so they don't get hung up on them and keep asking again and again futile questions like "buuuuuuuuuuuuuut if Reaity is infinite, then how come A B and C?!?!?!?!?!" But you're right, in the end it is just another label. If you don't find it useful, then don't use it. Simple!

It is all nothing, it is all emptiness. You are making the mistake of still distinguishing and being biased. You think nothing is somehow different and distinct from something. Which is a duality. Because duality is a part of nonduality. There is possibility for EVERYTHING because reality is unlimited. So what would stop it? A more conventional explanation would sound like this: nothing cannot stop something from appearing, since to stop a thing requires something to exist. Hence something must come into existence because nothing prevents it. But even this explanation is not correct because it still assumes a duality between nothing and something. As if something came out of nothing. NO! Something did not come out of nothing. Something has always been nothing. The only full explanation is that something = nothing. If you don't get it, it's because you haven't awoken to the fact that everything you see and hear is nothing. And no amount of logicking this will do it. You cannot substitute for lack of awakening by thinking some more.

Duality emerges from nonduality.

Ya. It doesn’t matter if it’s ‘your’ thought per se, or ‘your’ thought which is from hearing what someone says, about Nonduality. Every single thought about what is not two, without exception, is a step away from, not two. The thought is ‘itself’ the step away, the veil. The ‘path’ is not conceptual, the ‘path’ is a concept. Only deconstruction, uncovering assumptions and beliefs ‘works’. ‘Removing layers’, never adding more concepts.

Tom Campbell unites nonduality and simulation idea pretty well.

If you recontectualize reality to Nonduality, then everything is You. There's no difference from a rock, a tree, or a person. It's all consciousness, dreamstuff. In Leo's video on Self Love, he talked about self love is learning to love all of the Self, meaning all of reality equally. Then you are full of love, as you are in love with everything. If you can reach that, you will never be lonely.

After spending some time on this forum, I've found it quite comical to see arguments over the "correct" perspective of reality. It's especially comical when these arguments are coming from people who claim to be abiding in non-dual awareness. Usually this happens after a person sees beyond the materialist paradigm. Said person then gets attached to the idealist paradigm, yet fails to see their attachment to this new paradigm is the same attachment they had for the old one. Non-dual awareness is not a paradigm that you can attach yourself to. Non-dual awareness does not refer to any kind of content within a paradigm. Non-dual awareness is the Context of all paradigms. There is no "correct" perspective of reality. A "correct" perspective would be considered a ground. Reality is groundless. There is no absolute that stands alone. The absolute can only be known through the relative. The absolute is the relative. There is nothing that can stand alone. All is empty. There is nothing fundamental with inherent self nature. Even consciousness is not some foundational substrate that can stand alone. Consciousness dependently arises with objects within consciousness. With that being said: Here's a self exam designed to free you from any paradigm you're clinging to. 1. Do you ever seek to invalidate someone else's perspective? 2. Do you see certain perspectives as more "correct" than other perspectives. 3. Do you believe gaining another perspective means letting go of an old one? 4. Do you believe that to abide in non-dual awareness you must erase all dualities in your mind? 5. Do you believe that from the absolute perspective, reality is infinite? 6. Do you believe that from the absolute perspective, you are God? This is going to piss some people off, but if you answered only "Yes" to any of these questions, you're still abiding on a ground. Enlightenment is not the disposing of old perspectives and the collection of new ones. Enlightenment is the ultimate Perspective of perspectives. It's a meta perspective. It's the effortless fluidity between perspectives. No perspective is "correct." For a perspective to be "correct" would imply other perspectives are "wrong." You'll find that all perspectives dependently arise with each other. Not a single minutia of reality could exist without everything else. This is the essence of what non-duality points to. Enlightenment is seeing past the fabrication of perspective itself. Enlightenment is to see the dependence of everything on everything else. It would be unwise to say any perspective is "wrong" when your "right" perspective couldn't exist without that "wrong" perspective. That "wrong" perspective is actually part of your "right" perspective. To say a perspective is "wrong" is to say your "right" perspective is "wrong." For example, idealism couldn't exist without materialism just as up could not exist without down. Someone who claims materialism to be "wrong" and idealism to be "right" is like someone who claims up to be "wrong" and down to be "right." BUT, here's where is gets messy... The perspective that materialism is "wrong" and idealism is "right" is still a valid perspective. Issues arise when people cling to only that perspective. Also be aware that this is only an "issue" on the relative level. All issues are perfection from the absolute perspective. Just be aware that clinging to any one perspective will limit you in becoming more conscious. Two perspectives I commonly see people cling to here is the perspective that reality is infinite and the perspective that you are God. These are valid perspectives, but realize that being dogmatic about these perspectives will limit you. Understand that from certain perspectives reality is finite and you are simply a human. So many people get caught up in being God that they forget to enjoy their humanness. You are both human and God. You are not one more than you are the other. Abiding on the ground of God is like playing a video game and always having awareness on the screen. It takes away from the immersion of the video game. The bottom line is that reality is non-dual. But many people don't truly understand nonduality. Most people just turn nonduality into another ground. They create a duality by seeing the world as non-dual and opposed to dual. Non-duality cannot exist without dualities. The dualities you seek to invalidate are the essence of the non-dual paradigm you seek to validate. The key here is nonattachment. Become aware enough to realize when you become attached to any one perspective, even if that perspective seemingly comes from a higher level of consciousness. Also, recognize that I just gave you an awesome new perspective, but don't get attached to it haha.