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okulele replied to caspex's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Seems to me like @Goldzilla and the rest are talking different language here. I don't think you would even agree on what awakening means. From what I hear, Goldzilla speaks about complete coming into the Ground (the body). As he says, making the subconscious conscious, total transformation and embodying of the human being. Here, yes, gender is central and absolutely real. (frankly, basically nobody else on this forum speaks about this ascpet of awakening lol) The rest that post here speak about deconstructing of the mind. Where gender and even the body is seen as conceptual stuff. (this is the aspect of awakening basically everyone is involved in here on the forum) I strongly believe that however paradoxicaly opposite these aspects may seem, they are not mutualy exclusive. -
Preety_India replied to johnlocke18's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
@johnlocke18 a man is walking on his own path of growth and transformation. And growth includes change. Can you let him walk.. Can Leo make mistakes? Well, yes. Is Leo God? Well, absolu-freakingly yes. But Leo.... Is you. -
I've been following the Actualized.org for a while, and I reached to a conclusion that Leo, and also along with many members believe that Nations like Iraq and Afghanistan should be left alone to decide their fate and to go up the spiral. For me as an Iraqi, I can't see that happening without intervention of some sort. Iraqi nation can fight and eat the flesh of each other and not move a single step up the spiral, simply because they don't have to! Moving up the spiral takes efforts, and it doesn't happen naturally everywhere. When the west became a capitalized region, they literally invented capitalism from the ground up, their nation has grown with it. When the US invaded Japan after WWII, they took control of the education sector and started brainwashing children teaching them the new values of capitalism and democracy. But what are the chances of transformation happens in Iraq automatically? Probably 0.001, and you might ask why? Well Iraqi people are happy! so why change? They'll fight, steal, and kill anyone who's unwilling to comply to a system where the riches stays rich, and the poorers stay poor. Majority are even anti-west. I've conversed with hundreds of people over the internet. They think that America is an evil country, and they think that the only solution out of their situation is for America to adopt a new moral system that's more humane... And while they are right about this point, they also think that they should live in a bubble, and not making any attempt to work things out until the US is reaches that state. And while the Iraqi officials go to Washington and meet with US officials, ordinary Iraqi citizens can't stand the name 'America', they also hate Israel, and think that America and Israel are one, conspiring on them in all possible means. They think that the American Embassy is a center for aspionage, and they think that it is OK that pro-Iranian militias to "resist" the American presence in Iraq. These Iraqi people can't grasp the fact that when the US decide to intervene, it happen on a haste, and without through planning, like when America dismantled the Iraqi Army after the invasion, they think that this was deliberately happened just because the US hates Iraq and wants its destruction, while the reality is that it was done on the fly by the American military governor back then. They are living in the victimhood bubble where every decision is done against them, for the sake of their destruction and misery. They can't see anything outside that bubble, not a single Iraqi, not two, but probably 99.9999999 percent of Iraqis think this way. On the other hand, we have Facebook, a state-of-the-art propaganda machine. We can teach them not to take things too personal, and that the US is unlikely to adopt a more humane international policy, and that they should not wait for that to happen, instead they should try to make an effort and work with the reality as is. I've developped this model of brainwashing, and I've been doing it for more than a year now, with great results. What's nice about it is that when I read tens of the comment on any of my articles, I get a clear picture of what's the main theme or idea that my audience is thinking, and in my next article, I start to debunk any fallacies they have, and so on. It is an endless cycle of idea exchange and dialogue. I think this should be the future for peace-making in the world, because this is how it works: We have the older generation, and they hold the torch of knowledge and wisdom of any nation, mostly tribal stage-blue people, and they control the rich of a country and decisions, and many of those people have social media accounts, and many of them are educated individuals. When I target the 50+ years old folks, the fathers, the grandfathers of the nation and leak some fresh prespectives, they will start to let go of their dogmas, and that in turn will have a very positive effect on the rest of the nation. I believe there are two ways to change, from the ground up, and from up to the ground. When Leo is doing these videos, he's probably hoping to see the results in like 40 years to be reflected on the world, but what about if we take the already educated 50+ years of any nation, and just give them enough knowledge to make them pass this bottle neck towards a more open horizon! Honestly, do you think it can be done this way also?
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A lesson in giving power away to the external world, life is all about relationship. What everyone truly desires is to be and feel like they are enough, complete, in of themselves, sovereign, safe to be true to themselves, willing to express how they feel and not even need to own this expression, in observing the trauma/release, the pattern, fear, behavior can be shifted from within and “others” will begin to shift their perception and treatment towards you make a fool of yourself, willingly, one time, then watch your entire phobia vanish in the upcoming experiences observe your energy and how you communicate your needs, release the energy and speak up no need to avoid the test/lesson, there’s wisdom to expand with, and all will deeply appreciate this transformation in the soul expansion process
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Question of good or bad policy, I don't care for, nothing learnt from that. I judge most people as retarded, concerned with shit that doesn't matter, spreading propaganda, blah blah blah I give myself a headache even saying that lmao Covid vaccines are one thing. What I ask is what else you get coerced into. What is coercion to begin with? What does it mean to be "co-operative"/"agreeable" , how/why should it be valued? I got my second shot of the vaccine today. I went because someone booked it for me, I didn't have much else to do. If I did have something else more important to do, and I was actually anti-vax, I just wouldn't go. I'm not anti-vax, I just don't care, although I think it's a bonus to be vaxed, probably Zombie transformation complete. But at least I'll get permission papers to travel where I want
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@SamC She's extremely clever - I read some more posts on her blog. She has a very construct-aware mind. She's also capable of observing male-female dynamics (in particular around the attraction phase) honestly and neutrally, which is indeed rare. She understands the male archetype that actually turn her on, as opposed to the male archetype that most women would proport "turn them on." That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if she still has a pickup shadow. Because pickup turns useless unattractive and creepy men into valuable, attractive (and frankly normal) men. And women love the latter type of man, but despise the former. And when they hear that the former has authentically turned into the latter, they feel manipulated (understandably), and they become defensive. Almost all women want the fruits of a man's transformation without hearing about the starting point or the journey (understandably). But then again, maybe this girl really is the exception. She reminds us on her blog frequently that she was at one point prepared to literally die out of Love (I know what that feels like personally - you have to really not care about your petty human desires to reach that point). Maybe she really is that one miraculous girl who doesn't care about her female self-image and guarding against manipulation. It's a shitty survival strategy, but it opens the gate to genuine understanding
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I decided I am going to keep a journal of each of the "personalities" within me. I am doing this to keep track of the needs, desires, fears, and level of consciousness of each so I can release them. I will release each cluster of thought patterns until I eradicate myself back to nothingness. Leaving myself everything. 11: This dominating part of me doesn't want to be responsible for anything. The part of me just wants to go from experience to experience, worry-free and unattached. This part wants to be completely detached from everything and everyone. The only thing this part wants anything to do with is nothing. Nothing but whatever comes up and then leaves. No attachments. Not to anything, not to anyone. Not even to itself. This part just wants constant change, growth, realization, and then new ones. This part doesn't even want to be a part. It just wants to live. 22: This part has seen past the nonsense, the chaos. This part recognizes patterns and wants to 'level up' out of these patterns so as to create positive change. This part of me agrees with 11 in wanting new and better experiences. But how can you level up your experience if you are mindlessly engaging in the same behavioral patterns/loops/cycles? 22 wants creation. Crow: This part represents change and transformation. So, like 11, this part wants change and doesn't want to be committed to anything. Except, it does want to be committed to itself. That is what makes this part different from 11. 11's non-attachment goes so deep it doesn't even want to be attached to itself. But Crow wants to track progress. And in order to track anything, it needs to develop a solid and separate sense of self. Crow wants individuality. Because of this, it cares about where it perceives itself in life and outside of life. It considers all angles. Cleopatra: This part is dangerous. It's a dominating aspect that does not consider what's outside of her desires– probably because she doesn't recognize it. This part scares the other parts because it is untamed, ruthless, thoughtless, and action-based. She comes off as a dictator but doesn't mean to be that way even though she is. She is not evil she is unconscious. If you get close to this part, she will sexually blind you, distort your reality, and fulfill your needs unless they interfere with her own. She will do this naturally as she sexually blinds and distorts herself, fulfilling all of her own needs. She's addicted to the sense of oneness but is trapped in her separation. She's controlling. Eva: This part is Cleopatra's opposite. She doesn't want to control she wants to be controlled. The idea of being controlled releases stress for Eva. She actually interprets it as love. It's sick and fucked up and she causes a lot of tension for 11 and Crow who despise controlling environments. Things being handled and done for Eva is something she dreams about. She has a deep-seated belief that she has to do everything herself in life. Unlike the other parts, she does not get off on this belief. She gets off on the idea of someone completely taking over and controlling her. Completely surrendering to life and letting go of everything including herself. She doesn't care what happens to her, she fancies it. She doesn't believe anything comes easily in life. She doesn't believe in other people. She is suffering; she is in a constant state of pain. She's a child. She deserves her needs to be met but cannot meet them on her own.
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@NightHawkBuzz You might find the following attached graphics helpful. Fill in each section and you will get your life purpose or “ikigai.” As you can see in the diagram, a profession/career is part of the ikigai but they are not one and the same. I filled out a similar diagram as an example and got “enterprise architect” as my ikigai. An enterprise architect shapes an enterprise’s people, systems, and technology so they can optimize. A common example today of a challenge enterprise architects tackle is digital transformation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_transformation Don’t feel bad if you don’t come up with the most amazing career right away, as my journey took years to figure out what I wanted to do, and you may need to take time and gather life experience also before you make a decision. Also keep in mind that life purpose and career can change as you do, and there is nothing fixed about either. Hope that helps you some.
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Nicely summed up. It's better to accept that possibility sooner than still holding out that maybe one day they'll approve of me. I get what you mean, there was just a lot of inner work I needed some help with just to grieve and get over the pains from my childhood which I couldn't tell anyone about until my mid 20s as I was literally intimidated/brainwashed into not telling anyone to, I had no siblings or other family members who could've stepped in and interferred. I ran away from home (had to lie about it too to get away) when I first felt capable of doing so as a young adult. I am mostly out of the grieving stage so now I'm more focused on how to manage keeping boundaries and still have some relationship with the parents despite how easily they will trigger me or throw me back to PTSD symptoms. Not everyone start on the same starting line I had a lot of trauma to sort through which was running up against my personal development/spiritual work but things are better for me now despite still having depression/anxiety symptoms, it was much worse couple of years back. But I get it I'm not interested in latching onto this as a part of my identity forever, it affected me but I'm more interested in transformation/metamorphosis.
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Love this! Great idea! I'm kinda on a similar journey. I'm working hard to get to that next level. Primarily because it's freaking fun and I get to witness and live through a beautiful transformation. But also because I know I'll be able to attract much higher quality women, and other juicy, wonderful stuff. Who knows, maybe even a 'soulmate'. So yeah. Full support.
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NO. Or yes! This is not going to work anyway, so it doesn't matter how you do it. It's just a learning experience. But you don't seem to get that women don't care about your track record. It doesn't exist to them. They don't like it when you try to make them think and reason about it. They see transformation, now. Did something turn weird and awkward just now? Then fuck all the previous good experiences, those don't exist anymore, all that is there is the fuckup. Show her some positive, attractive things? Then the negative stuff from the past doesn't exist anymore (basically), because she's seeing the positive transformation. That's why your best bet is to not. fucking. address it. Again, it still won't work because you already lowered her perception of you to unrecoverable levels. Unless she's really needy herself. But at least do it well, if you're going to do it.
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Thank you for commenting! Very well-thought points. Especially I liked this one: I think the term enlightenment deals with a transformation from a thought-identified state to a non-identified state. If there didn't exist the capacity of thought-identification in the first place, it doesn't make much sense to call it an enlightened state. So one would indeed need to rise up from the complete unconsciousness to a regular consciousness and continue on to a higher state of consciousness etc. So there are no shortcuts. These folks just are at the beginning, not the end. Great points, thanks for commenting!
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It could be a case of the pre/post fallacy in a broad sense. People think the same about animals and small children. They conflate the lack of presence of the thought faculty with the lack of thought-identification. I think the term enlightenment deals with a transformation from a thought-identified state to a non-identified state. If there didn't exist the capacity of thought-identification in the first place, it doesn't make much sense to call it an enlightened state. Enlightened people are very capable of deep thought. They might not either experience thoughts the same way as a thought-identified person, or they may lack the first-person experience of it all together. Regardless, they do indeed express the behavior associated with having a thought faculty. Small children and advanced animals are also capable of a degree of cognitive activity that may be classified as thought, and some may even be capable of creating a self-concept and thus identification. So even there, it may not necessarily be the case that they would qualify as existing in a state free of the drama of thoughts.
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The key is to just simply exhaust the MEME within you to really internally see its limitations. While you're at it, make sure you keep yourself open for the next MEME to awaken, but don't force it. We can't rush through stages too quickly, even if we understood the model perfectly. Development doesn't really care about conceptual understanding in this regard, it cares about direct experience. We can although use the conceptual understanding to choose the right action steps to fasten the process, but the stages really need to be experienced well enough and widely enough to be ready for the next stage. In theory there are specific life conditions that need to be in place to be ready for transformation. Unless those conditions are not in place, you are most likely to experience ''The GAMMA Trap'' which we can describe as your inner demons or shadows that will test your readiness to move forwards and they will kick you right back to where you came from, if you're not ready yet. When we learn about SD we tend to have this willingness to improve and move up the spiral as quickly as possible. I would suggest you to read the book. It really helps to understand the model better with all its nuance, and with more detailed understanding the change process becomes more natural.
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Radical Ideas I'm Playing with Perhaps "wanting to be" anything doesn't work. I wanted to be a high performance individual. Still like the idea, but it just brings me stress whenever I'm not using every minute of time effectively. Shouldn't the high performance come naturally, from an authentic drive to do things, not trying to be like someone else, or adhere to some artificial standard? Perhaps the concept of wasting time is a toxic concept. Time is never wasted. Not because time doesn't exist because there is only now blah blah blah, but because everything you do, consciously and unconsciously, serves a purpose, and thus, is necessary. Whether you are fully aware of it or not. Becoming fully conscious of the purpose of what one might view as wasting time, is the key to transformation.
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The0Self replied to spinderella's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Sam is literally still considering or perhaps even operating with the worldview of materialism. In my opinion we have little business learning anything awakening related from him. And that’s coming from someone who has a soft spot for him lol — he’s the one who got me to try meditation like 5 years ago which led to a transformation like I couldn’t have possibly imagined. -
@Gianna One final story to help you feel better about being ruthless. When I was 16, I had my heart CRUSHED TWICE in the space of a year by two girls I absolutely adored. I pictured myself being with them, I thought about them a lot and thought about how well I would treat them. They weren't attracted to me and both rejected me and said they just want to be friends. This absolutely killed me to the point I couldn't live with myself. This facilitated personal transformation. I read and re-read countless dating and relationship book, learnt social skills, started lifting weights, taking care of myself, going out and talking to girls until I got really good at it. I had a few relationships and a lot of casual sex, and now I am with a girl who I absolutely love and she loves me very much. We have a bond way better than anything I could have imagined up myself. And you know what? She's way hotter and cooler than the girls who rejected me all those years ago! Who do I have to thank for this? The girls who rejected me! It caused me so much pain that I had to transform. Now there is one more man in the world who know how to treat women, and one very happy girl in a relationship with the man of her dreams
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They need something that they can relate to. The images of Gods aren't real. I would say those who think these images are real are kinda deluded..but some people simply need a personified representations of Gods to be able to relate to something that also has human/animal traits and qualities. This facilitates the process of spiritual communication. For example if someone told me to stand next to a tree and consider it as God and pray to it, it would simply be impossible for me to do it I won't be able to pray and my spiritual communication would be left incomplete. So as a way to support my imagination, I can use a statue, an idol, a picture that has either Human/animal traits so it appears like there is someone there I'm talking to and communicating with . In reality it's nothing more than that. Also most Gods in polytheistic religions with pantheon of Gods are simply archetypes of some quality/event/phenomenon or state For example you could have a God that represents Justice and you pray to that Deity for justice or peace/resolution. This is a way of finding one's own inner peace through spiritual venting or communication. That's the whole essense of idol worship, pagan religions and polytheistic religions like Greek, Hinduism. Islam is one religion that does not have symbolic representation or idol worship.. However most religions have a personified character that the religion followers pray to. It's almost people following pop stars or celebrities because those celebrities represent a certain character/aura or ethos to the public that people fall in love with. If taken positively it can be a source of motivation in life where you learn valuable life lessons from mythological stories surrounding different Gods or if taken negatively it can turn into a cult where people blindly worship without true intention and empty chanting or not embodying the sentiment of the deities. For example a man who worships a diety that is about justice yet goes and commits injustices against the vulnerable then he is simply blind worshipping an idol . I believe that such invocations of deities can be either a powerful psychological transformation through motivation or it can turn into nothing more than words from the mouth. Depends on how a person chooses to use it in his life.
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Kalki Avatar replied to Mips's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
@Mips But does she also loves you so much that she will never leave you too? If she does and is truly a wise person, she wont leave you after transformation as she will be even more attratcted to the wiser intelligent you. Maybe she changes her mind and wants to join you in that path. She should resonate with the authentic truth in you. If not, you are still playing games of denial while also not wanting to deny the truth. If you have really matured in that aspect, you will know what to do. -
The first one of these excerpts I’ve posted so much I bet some may be getting sick of seeing it. These excerpts about basic trust go so well with what @Intraplanetary wrote so beautifully I couldn’t resist adding a few more from that glossary page. I didn’t get all of them though. Basic trust is such a crucial element,,,, ',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The Innate Sense that Life is Fundamentally Benevolent The presence of basic trust indicates that you have the innate sense that life is fundamentally benevolent, and that benevolence exists independent of you and your actions. You will have this sense to the extent that your grounding in the universe has not been disturbed. The relative presence or absence of basic trust is a belly quality, something one’s whole being is either grounded in or not. The disturbance of basic trust is a significant factor in ego development because the perspective of ego is diametrically opposed to the sense of basic trust. The ego’s perspective arises out of a lack of this trust. It is based on distrust, on paranoia, on fear, on the conviction that you're not going to be adequately taken care of and that the universe is not there to hold and take care of you in the ways that you need. This conviction causes you to believe that you have to engage in all kinds of manipulations and games to get your needs met and to make things work out. Facets of Unity, pg. 25 Trusting the Dynamism of the Inquiry In time, you develop basic trust and you learn to trust the dynamism of the inquiry. This will happen as result of several things: first, clearly recognizing the optimizing force in the dynamism of your own unfolding; second, truly seeing that optimization is the nature of the dynamism; and third, having faith that the optimizing is occurring even when you can’t feel it in the moment. Then you are trusting the guidance and the unfoldment. Basic trust – the knowing that you just need to relax and things will work out fine – is an automatic result of this developing knowledge of reality. Spacecruiser Inquiry, pg. 122 With Basic Trust You Take Risks When you have a lot of basic trust, you are courageous and authentic. You take risks. You don't sit on your capacities. You engage in life wholeheartedly, doing what feels appropriate to you with the confidence that it will work out. Without much basic trust, you are paralyzed with fear of failure and fear of rejection. ',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Facets of Unity, pg. 28 Without Basic Trust We Live Our Lives Defensively If basic trust informs your experience, your psyche is relaxed. Your soul is at peace with itself and with your situation, resting in the unquestioned confidence that the universe provides, that you have, and will receive, what you really need, and that things are workable. If we really have this trust, this deep inner relaxation, it becomes possible to live our lives out of love, out of an appreciation of life, out of enjoyment in what the universe provides for us, and out of compassion and kindness for others and ourselves. Without it, we live our lives defensively, in conflict with others and with ourselves, becoming self-centered and egoistic. To find our basic trust is to reconnect with our natural state that we have become separated from. When we are innately infused by reality, our soul or consciousness is completely transparent to the truth that we and the universe are one, that we are supported by reality and that reality is by its very nature good, and that what happens is inevitably right since it emerges out of that inherent perfection. When you understand this, it becomes obvious why it is so difficult to relax and let go, and why it is so important regain our basic trust. Facets of Unity, pg. 32 Without Basic Trust We React According to Our Conditioning Now we can see how the presence or absence of basic trust is crucial to the initial step in the process of the transformation of any sector of the ego. This step is only completed by giving up the particular structure we have been holding on to. Basic trust gives you the capacity and the willingness to let go of the images, identifications, structures, beliefs, ideas, and concepts -- the remnants of the past that make up the ego. Implicit in this initial step is the second one: If you are able to surrender, then you are willing to be. You are willing to not try to change things, to not manipulate them, to not push and pull at them. You are willing to just be present, which is a sort of realization itself. First, then, is the death of the old; second is the realization of Being. If you don't have basic trust, you will react to what arises in accordance with your conditioning and will want your process to go one way or another. You won’t let yourself just be present; you’ll be tense and contracted. So basic trust is needed for you to be able to allow the ego to die, and also for you to be willing to just be, without reacting. Facets of Unity, pg. 26 taken from - https://www.diamondapproach.org/glossary/refinery_phrases/basic-trust
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WaveInTheOcean replied to Someone here's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
'What is' is motion, change, death, transformation, impermanence. You were programmed by genes and your culture to resist death (change) - how do you let go of this resistance to the impermanence of reality, life; to the 100,0000% sure fact that your body/mind is going to die? -
You've slept off some of the brain fog and have awoken. The dust has settled. I feel certainty now in the direction of my transformation. Its a deep dive into the shadow, becoming an adult and an actual person. I have a hunch, intuition, more certain than just a fantasy now. The fruits of actualisation are far, but I understand now. Obviously the daily routine must change. The diet is first. Change in physical appearance like loosing weight are an aid. ... Abandon the David R Hawkins model. Forget about models of selfishness and selflessness. However, I fundamentally still don't know how to handle the shadow which I dive into. It's the direction I must go. I have to stop resisting the feeling of it, is an under looked at facet. Keep doing ACIM. There is no contradiction. You can see that God has already layed out before you the supporting structures and leg work of your path. It was done automatically, "it was the culmination and peak of everything you held in mind" - no, I can't take credit. Everything can only happen of its own accord, "I" alone am powerless perhaps? -- Back now to practical considerations. Avocado and egg for 1 meal today... Idk about after that. You know which two people to humbly turn to if you want to learn how to cook in general. Blessed. Alright there's no getting round it bro, you're gonna have to get off your ass and exercise. Amp that testosterone and physical form game.
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@Jacobsrw Thank you very much! ☺ Art Therapy is amazing too! It's quite mind-boggling to me how all of these self-expressive methods of healing (art, music, dance, etc) have been utilized and effectively working for millennia, yet they're only recently being taken more seriously as an efficient tool for healing and personal transformation. Music Therapy actually aims to integrate ancient Eastern healing techniques such as pranayama, mantras, automatic writing/free association using lyrics & sound, and other mindfulness strategies in a given session, which I find quite pleasing. I mean singing and chanting in itself is quite a meditative tool. Diaphragmatic breathing is a mindful, conscious process which calms the nervous system and eases you into an active state of presence. Singing is also one of the most powerful ways to stimulate the vagus nerve, the main parasympathetic nerve in the body and controls our heart rate, lung function,etc. Stimulating the vagus nerve has been shown to alleviate stress, depression, and PTSD symptoms, overall improving our mental health. I mean this may sound fairly obvious or familiar, but even simply humming can bring us back into a state of homeostasis, renewal, and grounded-ness. It's very purifying for the body and soul indeed. ☺ "Catharsis" is one of my favorite words because catharsis often gives birth to one's revival. And music and the arts truly does have the healing powers to revive a person from their suffering in quite literally, miraculous ways. By the way, congratulations on completing your degree! You must be so excited ! I wish you so much more fulfillment, exploration, and Joy along the rest of the way. ? Thanks again for your kindness!
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Runtz replied to Runtz's topic in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
@Depersonilized I dont know the details of the medication. @kinesin You are correct that I live in the Netherlands, probably the only country where they administer it for psychiatric suffering. Its highly fucked up and twisted but you are still misrepresenting the situation. Its not that they are booked to be killed, the patient has to really want it themselves and say this in therapy etc. This is of course still super twisted because the condition my cousin is suffering is the depression and wish of death itself, instead of some underlying physical cause which causes the wish of death. I didn't fucking know this was even possible in my country till i heard about my cousin. Again its not like euthanasia is an option they just move on to, but the fact that it was even mentioned as an option shocked me so much. I have no idea how to talk to my cousin and my aunt and uncle about this. @Leo Gura Yes it's highly fucked up. Growing up I always thought my country the Netherlands was the best, but the older I get the less i become sure of its greatness. Thanks a lot for the tip about psychedelic therapy, already saw your blog post but didn't even connect it to this situation. I've done some research and found out there is only one serious psychedelic psychiatrist in my country, doing sessions with mdma and ketamine. But he might do the trick if I persuade my cousin to take it. Do you think a psychedelic can still work for transformation even for highly scientific stubborn materialistic people?