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Enlightenment is in most definitions defined as seeing that all appearances arise within the infinite you, being imagined by you, through you. And you are that, the Totality, Tat Tvam Asi. That includes all arisings, including the feelings and thoughts of the separate self, including memories. And of course the boat (all spiritual teachings) that carried you to the other shore, that you cast into the stream after crossing over to the other shore. They also arise just in you. Reality/True You includes every possible arising or imagined form, n+1. I also agree that Just experiencing or becoming Emptiness or Nothingness is not sufficient. You can experience the Godhead as state (Cessation, Nirvikalpha), and even experience yourself as Nothingness in a nondual infinite state, and it is not yet IT. Why? Because there are still a very very subtle feeling of Inviduality, of being separate, that will continue appearing in you. Even if it is just a very subtle "Nothing" watching the infinite. And how to get the Realization into daily life? Like, seeing the whole infinite appearance bubble arise within you in daily life? Learn to get proficient in spotting this last feeling of indviduality/separateness, and cutting them off before they fully rise up and elaborate, put You under their spell, before they get believed. A High-Speed-Search-Task for the Emptiness of the separate self arisings, as Daniel Brown once called it. And when you are fully empty (your personality is not gone, it continues working more efficient and better than ever, its just blows like the wind through the Totality that you are then), you can sustain that. Nondual, infinite, blissfull, the not so separate self or character moving in you like the wind. You realize that you have always been that Totality, before with the illusion of something separate appearing in it. @Leo Gura : I am (at least in my understanding of your writings, especially the one above) very close with my definitions of these terms to your definition on God-Realization/Enlightenment. I understand why you put so much emphasize on understanding the points you mention above, because its sooo easy to stop short, and various teachers like Jac O'Keffee or Wolinsky, Massaro (I know...), Wilber, Davidya, even Bassui a few hundred years ago.... also emphasize that a lot: Further, never stop short. It is so easy to fool yourself, and stop at Nonduality with a separate self still left and not fully seen through. I also like your wording of imagination more than the classic buddhist wording of "empty or empty of inherent existence", the question of BiploarGrowth. ("Could you define imaginary as “something not having inherent existence and being completely reliant on Consciousness/You to appear”?). So, at least in my humble opinion, the more or less only point where I put a different emphasis than you (yet, which at least in my experience, has a drastic impact wether you can carry this realization into daily life), is: This last quantum of getting totally empty of the last Individuality/separateness-arising-items arising in you, not a lense seen through, but a lense fully transcended moving in you and not seen through, which enables you to sustain this Realization sobre without pychedelics, and to get it totally unbiased of any last separate self interpreting lense. @Leo GuraLeo, just one question: Where is your line of kicking out people? I understand that probably most people who write in a not so polite way or are making fun, or being ironic/sarcastic in a not so light way, or are being arrogant, are probably not writing that while being aware of their True Nature (at least while writing it, yet some may be), but are a bit annoyed by some manifestation in their visual field (which in that case happen to be your writings). So, for them, a little challenge: How about writing it being aware that Leo is actually fundamentally not different from you, and writing your message in a loving way, even if you feel the urgency of critique? Writing while not rejecting parts of your visual field (in that case, Leos message)? I respect you and your work (which is marvelous in so many areas). I just have a different perspective on the utmost importance of getting fully empty, seeing the separate self arisings in real time fast enough and not getting hypnotized, and to be able to carry that realization described above into everyday life, and the ensuing happiness/bliss that it brings. Utmost at least in my experience, because it made the difference on so much more happiness and bliss that has come into my life so that I can not honestly write about this topic without mentioning the experience I had with this aspect. Let's respectfully agree to disagree on that one point? Namaste and all the best! Water by the River

I'm not trying to be awake, and what i'm saying is that everything within life is an illusion full of lies. Because of low consciousness and limits people actually enjoy this state of being, that is why ignorance is bliss. There you know everything, can do everything, but you still suffer but alone. As long as you're conscious being you won't stop experiencing suffering. The others that say or point otherwise is god taking care of you, their response is mechanical/impulsive and that is because they don't know any better.

You know what I'm going to say, right? Sounds pretty New Age to me: minimal prescriptions, minimal theory, minimal tradition, sort of vague; just pure seeking of the sacred, stripped to its bare bones. "Just follow your bliss, man" I don't think we're getting anywhere. We disagree on what spirituality and religion is, we disagree on the degree to which belief is inherent to either spirituality or religion, etc. It's hard to get off the ground without settling those.

Something very important i want to add, most of you if not all here on the forum think there is some kind of awakening or enlightenment that you can do incredible things like an ascended master. It's not possible, unless your dream is setup like that. Your life is already set up, the only way to be some form of god inside a dream like this is to literally setup your next life/dream that you want as the "chooser" but it's not so fun experience. I repeat YOU choose your dream and experiences, the more god limits itself the better it is. God would rather be a Neanderthal then an ascended master in a dream. This is probably the biggest awakening i was really conscious about. THE ONLY POWER YOU TRULY HAVE IN YOUR OWN DREAM, IS THE POSSEBILITY TO LEAVE IT. BUT YOU DON'T TRULY WANT THAT, AND YOU KNOW THAT AT YOUR CORE AS GOD. I wanted to really leave my life and start a new dream, but when i was there and everything got deconstructed i realized why i can't leave and why it's better to be this way. I also knew that because god is taking care of me at all times, he would limit my consciousness again after coming back and i was really happy about that because by limiting my consciousness i would experience ignorance and ignorance is bliss.

Wouldn't it be like a solipsistic resonance when we completely detach from something and compound on nihilistic virtues and would this look like another illusion or game we're playing? What's the end game in the pursuit of such bliss?

This is the start of my new journal wow it’s been years since I’ve been here so much life experience from every single one of you. barely 19 years old, currently in the military. i just wanted a place to sort my thoughts, I don’t plan to really dig deep into this forum. i just wanted to start taking consciousness more seriously. im so unconscious fuck. i know how it feels to be more conscious then I am now. It’s kinda weird how I can feel and experience my state of consciousness I’d say in the past I was pretty conscious. Now I’m much more stable, have a solid life, easily interact with people irl. Basically a normal life. Took years to build myself back up. my story: I used to meditate every day. Sometimes 20 minutes other times hours. Sometimes just used to sit there for hours. I still had bullshit in between but I was very focused on consciousness. Used to have awakenings of surrender and love if you know you know. When I was 14-16 just something in me snapped cause at that time I was still living with my parents. How could I have developed myself in that aspect of life but not progressed in reality. So I put a hold on meditation. On everything. And was like fuck it I’ll build back up the life I surrendered. (This itself was a HUGE realization to me) Joining the army was perfect cause it gave me no time to meditate, busy all day, made friends, learned how to interact with people my age again. For the first few months it was so foreign to talk to people my age. Just completely different wavelengths. ? “that’s hella cute” all the slang they use. Reintegrating into society. pretty much hermited myself all of Highschool took months off just to sit and meditate. Bro was such an amazing experience in my life. Had such realizations not only into my awareness and consciousness but also into energy, spirits etc. had crazy experiences with everyone I was meeting online but it just wasn’t what I was looking for. Gave up the life of love for REALITY. Cause that’s why. Itself is the reason. REALITY. i can’t fully understand at the moment cause I’m not at the level to see it. i just know that leaving “this” behind completely is easy(edit: as well as the hardest thing. We could say I never completely gave up on this because I didn’t just pack my stuff and leave forever pursuing consciousness. So I don’t have really any place to say this but I was on the boarderline) compared to living a life and retaining that conscious state. It’s easy to meditate all day, not pay rent etc. you know. But that’s not life. Life isn’t meant to be easy. Challenge myself to improve. gave up my reality for love —-> then gave up the bliss and awareness of reality again. I feel like I’m still missing a piece of it all but that’s it in a nutshell. Now I want to take on both sides. sacrifice the bullshit and distractions of my life for spirit, god, christ, love while maintaining this life I have. Blossem into whatever I’m meant to be

Selling Water by the River, todays water batch: Difference between Awakening and Enlightenment: Enlightenment: You had to cut/transcend every subtle separate sense feelings/thought (very subtle ones, very hard to spot). Then you are fully empty, which is your True Condition. Then, all separate self arisings arise in you, and move in you, but you are not only them. They move in you like the wind. The wind is also you, but you are not only the wind. They are fully transcended. Why is that necessary to fully understand Absolute Reality, or what You are? What you are can be fully empty. Like, nothing at all. Total Nothingness. When no arising is there, Absolute Reality/You is unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience if something appears (for example, check Hawal and Massaro books). You are still there when all arisings disappear (Nirvikalpha, Deep Sleep, your face before your parents were born). And if you want to understand what You are while forms still arising (like, in normal life), there can not be a subtle separate self/anything cutting the one infinite Unity of the Real You/Reality into a felt subject (Awareness) watching Infinity, even if it feels nondual or infinite. It has to become perceptions perceiving themself, no separate self anywhere to be found. You can not have separate Awareness separated from the field. The infinite field watches itself, literally does. And your body-mind moves in the Totality that you are. The thoughts and feelings of the former separate you are moving in in the True You like the wind. The bliss/love you generate in that state without needing anything external gives you autonomy from chasing externally generated bliss via experiences. It gives you total absolute freedom and love (Bassui below: You will be entirely free) If you understand that for your perspective, you understand that this holds for the structure of all perspectives/beings, for the whole Absolute Reality. Why? Because all perspectives are only form arising in the Absolute, any boundary from one perspective/being to another is either forgetting or form arising in Awareness, seeing itself. The advantage if do that sobre: You need a high developed state of nonduality/nonlocality/centerlessness/mere appearance of the visual bubble. You get that via meditation done correctly. Which doesn't need to be unpleasant or hard (although it normally takes quite a while), at least if done correctly, see for example Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. If you feel centered in your head, and the outside world appears as solid, you can not understand the Nature of Reality, impossible. So this state is necessary for Enlightenment. But not sufficient. From that stage (Yoga of One Taste) for example, you can continue to dissolve the last remnants of the separate self (for example, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then you can have Insight into what you are. You will not miss that, its definitive. Also, and most important, you got a built in safety check/quality control: You will not cross over to full Enlightenment without fully transcending any and all separate self arising coming up (and the visual field being Nonduality, centerless and infinite). You can't fool yourself here. And you will understand when you are there. Why it is absolute. Awakening: The energetic state of Nonduality/Unity/Infinity with some remnants of separate self still not fully transcended, you can also get by Psychedelics. Which of course is useful in order to have an idea of the goal, a feedback loop to build this nonduality-state via meditation, on and off the pillow. But here, you get the nonduality/mere appearance with subtle remnants of the separate self still intact. You don't have the build in quality/safety mechanism of classic Full Enlightenment. So it is very easy to confuse these experiences for the final Realization of what you are. Everyone having experienced it claims this on the difference between Awakening and Enlightenment, see for example Frank Yang/Ralston/Wilber/Jac O'Keffee/Steven Wolinsky/... (anticipating certain feedback: "they are not awake, but enlightened". Well, with the definitions above I could agree). Enlightenment is in a different ballpark. And you can't imagine it without it fully happening. So it is not some mild form of "God-Realization", or Nothing. It is something of a different category. It is, to quote Ralston, fully understanding what You are and what Reality is. Without any separate self filters, however subtle, still active. So what happens if you value Psychedelic Awakenings or Understandings higher than fully being and realizing what you are? You guessed it: Reality doesn't let you off the hook, you still have psychological suffering. The separate self arisings cut you off from the full flow of love of your True Being for itself. So you need experiences to get this love flowing. For example the love you feel when understanding-experiences of the exquisite beauty of the design of Reality/Dimensions happen. Is anything with exploring Alien-Godminds wrong? For sure not, this understanding is probably among the most beautiful experiences you can have. I just feel it becomes problematic if you value getting the love the unenlightened separate self needs from these experiences, and valueing these understandings of Alien-Godminds higher than classic Enlighenment and fully understanding your True Nature, and resting in it. Why not pursue and value BOTH endevours on an at least equal basis? Not downplaying Enlightenment as somehow not on the same level or lower than any other insight into the appearance or form side of Reality (which is infinite). If what is stated above is correct, with one path one is lead to salvation (Enlightenment), and with the other path (Understanding/Awakenings), well.... best regards from Maya, but you get a medal from her with distinction for playing her game on the highest level possible. For the readers: You will probably not achieve higher level of bliss and love than your teacher using his teachings. And how these levels will develop: Well, we are in the prime seats here to see how it will continue. I don' think I have a high chance of convincing Leo. So that means that the job of convincing to develop via suffering (or hopefully only not being as happy and loving than one could be) stays where it always has been, and ever will be: Maya, CEO of Samsara. All the best, enjoy the ride and the show, and Namaste! Selling Bullshit Water by the River. PS: There is already water by the River, so I am too lazy to carry Bulls**t there. ( : Bassui: “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. ... If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free. For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

Dear Leo, let's conclude it for today, it is late over here. I let the videos of the poems of Meister Eckhart, which I posted in my last post interestingly a minute before your reply, speak for itself. Every reader can then feel to which perspective their hearts and souls resonate. I believe that in your perspective you feel that way, and perceive that us true. May all beings find the most direct way to resting in their true nature and their own innate bliss. Namaste!

Sorry, my paragraph you refer to (below) was not intended for you. It was a general statement concerning the goal of maximum exploration/understanding of form/manifestation mechanism: "And my only humble suggestion is: Before you go running exploring that which you can never finish [understanding as much as possible of an infinite reality] in this lifetime: Why not look deeply into the abyss of your own true being (which contains all form, but never is form, getting to the point where there is so much no center that all perceptions see themselves), learn to keep that ongoing in daily life, and be happy and in bliss, and go exploring these Alien-Minds then?" Sorry that this wasn't clear. And great that you are generally very happy!

I agree. Ego-Loss and Presence is not final Enlightenment. Ego-Loss and Presence would be Roger Thisdells stage 3 and 4, a more or less transparent Witness, and that can include Nonduality and Unity-states. Not his stage 5, True No-Self, or final Enlightenment. His videos are on Youtube, see my previous posts. At the end, when only the individuality-feeling of the Transparent Witness remains, and even that is seen as moving in the True You or Reality/Infinite Consciousness itself, among with all other mere appearances of the Visual Field, then there is insight into the Ultimate Nature of Reality and your True Self. Not before. That is called Great Enlightenment in Zen, or Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. All small Enlightenments before are called Kenshos or smaller Satoris (Nonduality, Unity, certain Ego-losses). But the final and total drop of the separate self arisings is the Great Enlightenment, the insight into the nature of Existence/Reality and the real You. Version 1, Peter Ralston: Peter Ralston: "So you know enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true, directly conscious of what's true, like what you are or what existence is, no more than that". Version 2, The Supreme Source, God-Realization Dzogchen-style: My intuition is with the importance you lay on God-Realization: Never stop short - on which I fully agree. Thats the worst mistake one can do - stop short in understand what You and Ultimate Reality really are. I really agree on that. Apparently, understanding that everything is just appearance arising in the True You, Reality itself, and what that True You and Ultimate Reality are, is paramount. But why aim for understanding all of the endless/infinite perspectives (Alien Minds, whatever...) that work together to give rise to all these appearances, when by definition its infinite and endless (n+1) and never can be fully understood, and call that God-Realization, and give it a higher meaning than the Full Classic Enlightenment? Isn't Ultimate Reality the final Godhead? Infinite other dimensions run and understood by other Alien Godminds? Aren't these other realms not just... more appearances arising in Ultimate Reality? Why place more importance on these insights, which by definition can never be complete, than on the understanding of the "wetness" of each wave of appearances in the ocean of Ultimate Reality? Which by the way, is the definition of final Enlightenment (or Great Enlightenment in Zen, see Kapleau three pillars. Not the preliminary ones, Kenshos and smaller Satoris, which show Nonduality and various other facets). But the real thing, like Ralston said, what Reality is and what You really are. Why not get the wetness and bliss of the ocean in your everyday-life, and then go exploring the Alien Godminds? Or do you aim for that with exploring the Alien Godminds? As always: Review the perspectives, and if one doesn't like the kind of water that is being sold here at the river, look deeply into yourself if you are not already the river... ( : He who knows the well doesn't drink out of the jar. And doesn't angry on other jars. PS: And besides, in exploring these Alien-Godminds, I think you are doing an awesome pioneering job, stuff for the history books in the future. What would really delight me is if you find within yourself a place living from which brings you a radiating bliss and love in your everyday life 24/7, and freedom from psychological suffering. All the best and bon voyage!

9 hours ago, Water by the River said: Whatever the meaning or Referent of this concept/word is , it would just be more form. Even if its a very subtle appearance or formless understanding. Just more arisings. @Aurum: Luckily, we did get a timely answer: Alien FORMS of consciousness and intelligence. I fully believe Leo that he experienced this, and its fascinating stuff. For sure, there are those perspectives/intelligences creating and keeping the game running. That is the stuff that humanity will probably focus on the explore in the next 1000 years and beyond, if not a mishappen asteroid or so comes along.... So Leo is a pioneer of the highest degree, for sure. And maybe after 1000 years we will play the UFOs on some other planets or dimensions, or create our own little dimensions or whatever, and appear as these Alien intelligences. Who knows? But lets say reality is really infinite (as pretty much everbody and most spiritual texts agree on): Its infinite turtles all the way up. N+1. You never reach the top. If you understood that Alien Universe-Creator/Manager, you can go understood his "boss". And the next. And so on, forever. So form doesn't stop. And the content of every perspective, of the alien forms of consciousness and intelligence, are by definition form. It is all arisings. So it is an infinity "upwards", see Leos Video on Infinity Part 2, Cantors Set Theory. It will never stop. No reason not to explore, if you have fun doing it. I am curious for which shows are ongoing, for sure.The one Absolute Subject watching all of that, Reality itself or You, doesnt have form. It would limit Reality. This realization is the core of classic Enlightenment. And knowing the Absolute of Reality is knowing the infinite Abyss of Consciousness: It is not form. "It" is the only "thing" (I know...) that is not form, neither subtle or not. It is the Real You (not the separate self arisings in you). It is Reality itself. If no arisings happen in your perspective it is Nirvikalpa or Deep Sleep, if arisings happen in you perspective, it's perceptions perceiving themselves. With or without a separate self-arising going on. That is by the way the structure of all perspectives/beings being imagined by Ultimate Reality. Any Identity/I-feeling-arising is form. Any understanding is an appearance. Why? Its not permanent. It comes and goes. Its not you. It arises in you. And my only humble suggestion is: Before you go running exploring that which you can never finish in this lifetime: Why not look deeply into the abyss of your own true being (which contains all form, but never is form, getting to the point where there is so much no center that all perceptions see themselves), learn to keep that ongoing in daily life, and be happy and in bliss, and go exploring these Alien-Minds then? Why go exploring on an endless journey with so much urgency while still not being happy, because a separate self still creates dis-satisfaction (which by definition it does to keep the game/illusion going). How would you call a game that keeps you dissatiesfied searching for the highest form of Alien Intelligence, when there are an infinite number of them out there, chasing your own tail? What is it that keeps the whole illusion running? The separate self at its core has to generate dis-satisfation, to keep some activity going on. Not that it winds down and one actually looks into the absolutely formless abyss of ones own Being and Reality, sees the separate self building blocks arising as those elements that cause the dis-satisfaction in the first place, and lives happily ever after. Would be bad for the show if everybody did that. Luckily, that risk will not arise soon. Especially since we see here a new and creative form of that activity of chasing your own tail, so to say the highest evolved version of that until now, in some sense really the cutting edge of that aspect of humanity. And please nobody say that I am saying it is not worth exploring the Alien Superminds. That is part of the fascinating show. My only suggestion would be to do it in a way that makes you honestly happy and loving. And for that I would recommend you buying a bottle of water at the river saying: "Look deeply into your being, and check what reality is, what you are, if that makes you happy and loving or not, and check if its maybe already water. From the river". As always: Review the perspectives and draw your own conclusion on what resonates within you. And think about if you want to be happy/loving while resting in your True Nature and then go exploring the Alien-Whatevers of the Multiverse, or go on that trip with a separate self very well intact, causing regularly returning dissatisfaction & unloving, and having from time to time some great highs in merging and understanding those Alien-Godminds.

Sat (Being) Chit ( Consciousness) Ananda (Bliss) But You can always invent a wheel once again… All this thread is good example of bipolar lunacy. More Being less thinking I advise

It's -1000 and +1000 as a target from any state, start end or now, ends in zero for the "world" or "story" but actually is +2000 for you. -1000 is how good you are at destroying and +1000 is how good at creating, so you can still have all kinds of complicated forms/math since you can reach any number from any number as long as you have the ability/power/knowledge/whatever fantasy we need. so we have 100x10 or 999+1 or 999-2001 to reach the same equilibrium with different expressions. Would be pretty cool wouldn't it? It implies you can have any heroic like story or villain but without actually suffering, it accepts the 0 and the infinite, the only delusion is accepting suffering and denying pleasure, the reason people get confused is because they don't apply them simultaneously to any given state and you don't have to but for the purposes of actually understanding you at least need the memory that ACTUALLY, simple pleasures lead to infinite bliss and the total removal of suffering and so does the direct seeking out of the destruction of suffering leads to infinite bliss too, we can do both at the same time and as a pendulum. We are just totally forgeting that TOTAL SELFISH destruction of suffering leads to infinite love anyway and then you accidentally reach total love from having some skill in destruction you believe it was all worth the suffering or that love IS suffering but actually this is what "they" are trying t[eiopqrtuwy

Thats true. Although it can take quite a while without psychedelics. That stage was variously called the One Taste (Yoga of One Taste), Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind, .... But who or what is aware of that? At that stage, there is still some nebulous murky identity arising, watching or being aware of this Nondual Big Self. Even in this Nonduality/Unity, there are the last remnants of the separate self (very subtle, hard to spot, takes some training) still arising. Roger Thisdell has some nice youtube-videos on that: Not Self - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (4/5) In Roger Thisdells System, it is his stage 4, which is beyond his stage 3 Big Mind, which is already Nondual (One Taste/Yoga of One Taste, Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind) with a already much reduced separate self. Stage 3 can have full Nonduality/Unity, with the separate self much more intact than the pretty empty Not-Self of stage 4 (which has just Individuality or a murky Subject-Object left). It is Ken Wilber Empty Witness, Daniel Brown "Individuality", Jac O'Keeffe "Identity", Greg Goode transparent witness vs. opaque witness, Nisargadattas and Stephen Wolinskis Brahman vs. Parabrahman). One can find this stage in every system: Infinite Nonduality/Unity with the remnants of a separate self, some kind of identity or indviduality/separateness. And the last stage in his system, stage 5, Enlightenment: True No Self and No Centre - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (5/5) And then perceiving this boundless infinite field of mere appearance of your Awareness Bubble/reality/infinity, and then dissolving the last arising remnants of any remaining subject arisings perceiving this nondual infinity. These can be very subtle, "no-self"-arisings perceiving infinity, but still some subjectivity/individuality sensation/arisings remaining. But these arisings of any form of subject/individuality can still be seen as objects hovering in the infinite field/Suchness that you are. Don't worry, your True Self will still be there afterwards if these separate-self remnants dissolve. Then one can understand why it is so often said there is nothing beyond this stage. Because it is you, it is Existence itself, see the Ralston Video. To learn these last tricks of the separate self, you need enough time in these states, and the right techniques, (for a suggestion see below, no artifical activity), and then the One Hand Claps. How to do that? I like the Nonmeditation-Yoga in Daniels Browns "Pointing out the Great Way". Learn to automize the meditation (on the pillow and in daily life) of cutting off these separate self arisings, so that no more of what he calls "artifical activity" is necessary, because any effort at that stage done by a doer/separate self arising prevents the realization. It has to become fully automized. Definition of concepts Awakening, Enlightenment and No-Self: I believe we got a lot of different meanings of what we mean by No-Self, and Awakening and Enlightenment. Enlightenment: If Enlightenment is knowing what you are and what existence is, being able to stay in that knowledge in everday life: That has an endpoint: You know what you are and what existence is. And that brings permanent happiness and bliss. Of course you can suffer when you have bodily pain, but psychological suffering is gone. Resting in your True Nature generates bliss by itself. And that is the same as True No-Self, which is the same as True Self, because it is Reality and the core or Buddha-Nature of every being. But here, words loose their meaning, because reality has no opposite. No-Self: The real No-Self is not just giving up the Personality/Ego and going to the Witness (opaque or transparent, which can even be Nondual Kosmic Consciousness/Nature Mysticism style) with something still watching. That something can be mostly empty, just a transparent witness, but it still has the last duality of some kind of individuality. Problem is: This is something one only fully understands when these remnant-arisings of individuality are gone. If there is no separate self having individuality, the universe is watching itself, appearances watching themselves, thoughts are arising in immense vastness as objects, floating through you like the sound of a bird, and the feeling of being something separate is also seen as object in immense vastness. See Roger Thisdell stage 5. Awakening: If one defines Awakening as knowing all the manifestation mechanisms in this or any other dimension, then one perspective/being can be more awake than another. But: Infinity means there are endless dimensions. And a few thoughts on Genetics and Meditation: I believe that using the right meditation techniques at the right stage are essential, more so than genetics. Good techniques change along the path, check for example Pointing Out the Great Way by Daniel Brown. Classic Self-Help-Mindset: I would never let my success and drive be limited by such a limiting belief genetics <-> meditation. Do the the best with the Karma you have. Give it a try! The biggest heros are those who go furthest with the worst genetics/Karma. How do you know if you are limited, if you dont't fully try? Maybe you are not? And of course use Psychedelics on top, why not? If anybody is annoyed by this attempt to Sell water by the River: Please review the perspectives, do your own experiments, and review the outcome. My suggestion would be in judging if any insight is valueable, worthwhile, and higher: Does it bring the understanding of what you are and what reality is, beyond any doubt? Does it bring permanent satisfaction and bliss? And don't worry: Its already what you are, covered by lots of mistaken identities, and it is the only thing you can not loose. The only stuff you can loose are arising appearances, confusions/ignorance of what you think you are. By the way, does anybody read that until the end here?

I totally agree. Leo seems to be obsessed with egg theory / radical implications of oneness, and thinks he'll live the life of Hitler etc. He doesn't realize that Hitler is 100% imaginary! A fictitious character created as a backstory for WW2 (which also NEVER happened) and was all created so our lives feel relatively 'lucky' in comparison. It's a trick of relativity! It's genius! God then creates for itself a comfy existence, with just enough suffering that it can forget it's existential infinite aloneness and be with 'others' in a seemingly temporary meat suit for a while. And leave breadcrumbs for itself to awaken because awakening is the pinnacle of life, to find out it's the neverending story, it's too good to be true. God is so intelligent that it only incarnates into balanced lives. God knows it's a solipsist and wishes to forget that for a while, and does so successfully, until it awakens and discovers it's predicament. Because God doesn't want to be omniscient, God wants to be ignorant. Only in ignorance can God really love another. Ignorance is bliss.

God creates the experiences AND creates the emotions associated. That means everything is simulated by God. God could simulate good emotions to bad situations if it wanted to. God knows this as well. God knows deep down there's nothing to be learnt or understood. I remember when all my Grandparents died, I felt nothing honestly, so what did God really learn? The truth is, God creates for itself a comfy existence, with just enough suffering that it can forget it's existential infinite aloneness and be with 'others' in a seemingly temporary meat suit for a while. And leave breadcrumbs for itself to awaken because awakening is the pinnacle of life, to find out it's the neverending story, it's too good to be true. This is what Leo fails to understand. Leo has an egg theory fetish. God, however is so intelligent that it incarnates into perfect human lives. God knows it's a solipsist and wishes to forget that for a while, and does so successfully, until it awakens and discovers it's predicament. Because God doesn't want to be omniscient, God wants to be ignorant. Only in ignorance can God really love another. Ignorance is bliss.

Is there any scientific research that studies the relationship between age and happiness level? I feel like the more I grow up, life becomes dull and boring and melancholic. Whereas my childhood was filled with joy and bliss and excitement. Up to teenage age I was happy almost for no apparent reason. But now in my late twenties I feel a little bit depressed for no apparent reason. I don't know how to describe it. But the older I get the more I feel like reality is getting on a low resolution acceleration. Literally the sun is less bright and the days are just boring and repetitive. Why is that? Also I expect that when I get to my 30s that this will get worse. Anyone can relate to what I'm saying?

To me the power of affecting the level of my own happiness keeps increasing year after year, not the level of happiness per se. So the older I get, the easier it seems for me to turn my life into either bliss or shit.

"Ken Wilber: The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs and I found that over the years they just become mean. It's somehow just kind of closes them down it's like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing it it doesn't quite cause the transformation. It can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience and some people like David Deida will say that in order for altered changes of state to contribute to transformation a permanent transformation it has to be basically endogenous and not a exogenous it has to be has your own source People who do that (Psychedelics) the people that do use both (Meditation and Psychedelics) and use it as a sacrament i think an enormous bit out of it." As always: Consider the different perspectives and draw your own conclusions. PS: Lot of Leos work contains extraordinary metaphysical explanations that are in my perspective absolutely marvelous. I wish him permanent happiness, liberation and the bliss of constantly resting in his True Being, that will then radiate as love and compassion.

When you said to experience "individual as the world", and when I replied it that "present experience itself is enough to show that", what I meant is this world is made up of 5 elements. And so, this body too is made up of 5 elements. If one has the experience of "I am the body", then this itself is enough to show that "I am the world", as both world-body is same 5 elements, and it's not necessary to experience ALL permutations and combinations to show that, but "I am the body" itself is enough. So, then that's it. Never have to seek anything in world (or any experience - within or out of body or etc.), but just understand things/limitations, and so "Love-->Bliss-->Peace".

It seems, you fail to see two things here. One, in lucid dream, the physical threat is still there, and one cannot move physical body while having lucid dream. Second, about Bliss. Bliss is the best experience, which no enlightened one can deny. It's never a boring thing. It even flows in movement of physical body, one can look after their daily affairs while experiencing Bliss and not like Lucid dreaming (where one have to go unconscious of physical happenings). Bliss, never depend on going unconscious of some other. Bliss is not selfish too. Never have to seek, and flows in Empty mind. Satisfaction, never can happen when one is attached to any object of imagination. When there are desires rooted in the heart, never there gonna be true satisfaction until all such desires are eliminated/reduced. Satisfaction is choice, for Ignorant, and that's just imaginary satisfaction and ends while seeking desired objects. But, Satisfaction is Choiceless for Wise, and that never gonna end whatever objects appear before, as nothing one desires and content with anything appears - never satisfaction lost in any situation.

This world, is free for any kind of societies. There is no denial for any, but one increases out of it's desire and support, and another get's decreased. You know, not these powers are truly "powers" but "Desire and strong belief". That is the true power. And this Desire for "not such Mystical but just 'Peaceful' Material seeking Human Life", had make this society dominant over such Mystical. Still, there are those society in Middle-East Mountain/Forest regions practice those Mystics (like Kamar-Taj in Doctor Strange), as this world is open for such desires and practices too. There is no limit for desires and creation of different societies in this world, but what will be 'more recognised' will be what most people 'believe' upon. But, in case of Truth, just throw away all beliefs, no pleasure-sufferings, and Be Blissful and Peace, Unconcerned and Act Unconsciously of world. Consciousness, has two types, Inward and Outward. When Consciousness remains Still Bliss and Peace always, then it is Inward "so no conscious of outward - Unconscious of Materiality,etc". But, when Conscious moves outward, then Ignorance-Desires-Pleasure-Pain-etc., whole lot of limitations experienced. Like, there is Lamp Always. It can remain Off always - formless, or ignorantly think and On itself to experience outwardly all it's appearance/forms/etc.

It's about Bliss(true limitless happiness - not based on materials) and Pleasure. First, this "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance" - it's about Bliss. Then, this "but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.", who doesn't have Bliss, then Pleasure shall be taken away. Just my own view.

Hi there. Like, how you said in another thread that "Good and Bad are subjective, human concepts", will you agree in the same manner that "Positive +17,etc. and Negative -21,etc., is also human concepts, subjective"? Like At first to Till Atlast - everything everywhere all at once, only '0' remains but never any '+17, -21,...' from birth to till death and in every experiences (also in No-Experience)?, but that 'subjective, human concepts' is out of Ignorance (like, if one doesn't have thought of 'world,etc.'- one won't create such concepts but just 'Bliss --> Peace'?)?

About five years ago, I felt such bliss in my heart that I cried. It was 10/10. I felt unworthy. I was just sitting on the couch and it hit me all of a sudden without trying to. But I instinctively closed it down because I couldn't handle it. As such, it still has not come back in that intensity since. I have had 3/10 or maybe 4/10 bliss in my heart more recently after awakening my Kundalini. About 2 years ago, I felt an expansive 10/10 bliss in my crown chakra. I was like "OMG, this is amazing." It happened when I was in love with someone that I never met because they don't really exist here. But that soon overwhelmed me and I shut it out instinctively too. When I shut out this bliss because I'm scared of getting lost in it, it never really comes back at the same level. What can I do so that I don't shut it out and tighten down on it? I want it to be expansive, and I want to feel worthy. I am feeling 4/10 bliss at times with my Kundalini awakening. I am not forcing it. I've heard that we shouldn't chase bliss. But it's a phase I think I need to get through. Yes, once you mature you stop seeking bliss directly. But it gives me something to motivate me.