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Hi Lilia, yes, there can be pain, but no psychological suffering stacked on top, and the pain itself much more removed with less focus, flowing through oneself like a distant wave. What I wanted to say in my post (suffering and mainting Realization sobre/without psychedelics) was that without full stable Realization of ones True Nature and being able to keep that stable in everyday life (Postsamadhi), the cycle of suffering of the separate self continues. Without Realization of ones True Nature, one can have wonderful trips of Awakening with psychedelics, or just normal blissful experiences. But it never lasts. The merry-go-round of being content/satisfied and then no longer content/satisfied (suffering in the Buddhist sense of Dukha means not literally suffering, but something mroe like unsatisfactoryness (everything being unsatisfactory in the end, which then also causes suffering) continues. It is (in my observation) a necessary building block of any Lila, because without it the separate self arising would at some point no longer find "projects", and just "fizzles" out at some point. And: When I became able to rest in my True Nature (cutting off and/or just watching the separate-self arisings (thoughts/feelings) "Trekchö-style" emerging also at high frequencies, the visual field became limitless/infinite/nondual/mere appearance/imagined style/empty/groundless), and most of the separate self arisings were seen flowing through the Reality that the Real I is, I got a flow of bliss/love flowing from and through that Source/Reality that was independend from outer circumstances. In the beginning I thought it was too good to be true, like am I fooling myself here. But it never stopped, and increased further, including the so called three special states of bliss, emptiness (groundlessness) and luminosity (shimmering mere appearance), which then also progressed further. At that time, the meditation was off-the-pillow (Postsamadhi-Meditation) since quite some time, so I got that in everyday life and not only while sitting. And from that basis of a fully nondual infinite field of empty groundless mere appearances with no center/separate anything, one can start wondering WHAT kind of empty nonlocal Awareness really watches that infinite empty field of mere appearance, and in What that really appears. And then the Big Bang can suddenly happen. But that comes normally a considerable time after the stabilization of the Nondual Field described above. Tashi Namgyal, quoted in Pointing out the Great Way, Brown: "In short, crossing over [to Enlightenment] happens at the time when every single sensory experience—appearance [visual field] and thought [any separates self or thought arising in general]—are viewed as clarity/emptiness [mere empty groundless imagined appearance] and movement/emptiness [thought/separate self arisings moving in You/Reality] with absolute certainty [meaning it is no a decission of any kind, but a self-evident observation and an understanding of Absolute certainty, an Understanding of Ultimate Reality (infinite consciousness) understanding Itself]." Or in other words: When you get it that anything there can ever be is just a imagined show happening in the True You, and the True You is so totally empty/Nothingness that it is when no appearance appears unware of itself, but with the potential for sentience if something is imagined. Or: Totally empty, Nothingness, so that IT can manifest anything and is not limited in any way, which it would be if IT/You were anything specific at all. This is a point where many teachings become imprecise, or just end there (at a not so empty Nonduality), because the author didn't progress over that Nonduality-Stage with a still lingering pretty empty awareness/witness. Whenever you here "I am this Nonduality", a questionmark is indicated. For that, see also this video (Prior to Nonduality): Concerning what you describe about pain: Yes. If there is Physical pain, it is still there, but no psychological restisting/suffering arises because of it (which is like 80% of the perceived suffering). On top, as you describe, the physical pain flows through the Reality that you are, like the wind. Much more remote, like there is pain moving in me, but I am not that pain. It doesn't "grip" anymore. Bon voyage Water by the River

@Water by the River The excerpt from Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is spot-on. Precisely the kind of expression that I asked for. Thank you. You mentioned the perceived improbability of the 'sober state suffering' (or perhaps that's how I interpreted that part of your message), so I thought maybe I could share something with you. I have discovered that there comes a point at which suffering is not experienced as such. I mean the experience of suffering is there (e.g. the sensation of a sprained ankle is one and the same sensation whenever it's experienced, at all times), but there is no longer experience of it as painful. And it's not just a matter of interpretation where one tries to talk themselves out of the discomfort, nor is it the result of simply removing the distinction of pain. It is the actual experience that pain is not painful. Probing further, this pain turns out to be identical to bliss and is experienced as such (not in some perverse masochistic fashion, but because pain is experienced as God, and God is bliss, hence pain is no exception). Articulating God realization is no easy task, and as I am learning to do it, I appreciate hearing how other people do it. Your comment helped me a lot.

Beautifully written. Looks like you have a heart of courage. >How do you know you're doing the work the right way? Well, it sucks ass. It hurts as hell. That's how. Yet I think it also depends on the techniques you use for letting go of the separate self arising if it is felt like deaths & pain & drama or more like releases. And of course it depends on the circumstances (individual and surroundings). Looking back, for me is was a long path (that could have been much faster with better coaching and the right techniques and views/understandings right from the start), but it was more like letting go certain separate self elements / relief & bliss / integration / letting go more elements of separate self / relief & bliss / integration / n+1. Of course there were also "bumpy parts" in the road. Basically, I believe their are two mechanisms working in the universe: The stick and the carrot. Problem with the carrot: You have to want what the universe wants, and move voluntarily in that direction, and understand how to do that. Tricky business... I am writing this because I think the path can also appear too daunting or painful, so that some people don't even start walking it. Probably in most cases, it doesnt have to be too daunting if done with the right tools. Nice mindset for the path: And while doing all the differentiating/transcending/dying, don't forget to integrate/heal/be good to yourself. Even when the separate self dissolves step by step, there still should remain a healthy character running the show within You. Karma still holds. Padmasambhava: "Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour." Bon voyage! Water by the River

Emptiness and the 7th Jhana type nothingness are typically pointing to different things in Buddhism. Emptiness is that that things lack inherent existence. This ties in quite strongly with dependent origination as well. Nothingness is closer to tuning into more fine and subtle sensations or rather tuning all sensations to reveal more subtle aspects of experience than what is found in boundless space and boundless consciousness (5th & 6th jhana). Meditating on the breath and jhana are part of the same meditation process that the Buddha taught. I’ve even heard from a monk of some decades that this is the only meditation the Buddha is recorded to have taught in its fullness. It begins with the breath, then moves to gladdening the mind and other steps which align with jhana, then moves into investigation of characteristics found on the insight axis of mediation such as impermanence. Although not explicitly stated in the 16 steps, knowledge of the emptiness of phenomena will naturally come from Ānāpānasati (fancy old Pāli word for mindfulness of breathing) done thoroughly enough. One of the beautiful things about the Buddhist system of meditation and interpreting awakening is that the whole system and its parts are nicely interwoven with essentially all of the other parts. There is not one right technique or best technique. The technique which you use, find great results from, and enjoy is the “proper” technique. Some do suggest that sticking with one technique is important while others support the method of hitting this process from tons of different angles. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. All the way from the 16 steps of Ānāpānasati, to the 5 strengths, the precepts, the noble eightfold path, the four noble truths, etc. support each other in an elegant way. And more recent forms of Buddhism illuminate plenty of other relevant aspects of the path connecting back to the original teachings in their own ways. Buddhism has the express goal of finding for oneself the path to end suffering. Jhana and increasing sukha (happiness/satisfaction) are incredibly integral parts of this. The author and great teacher Rob Burbea suggested that one should have at least as much jhana/samadhi meditation as insight meditation if not a ratio even further geared toward jhana. True 1st jhana is absolutely nothing to scoff at. It is heavenly and psychedelic-tier bliss done with your own mind. Having that skill is immensely valuable. Anyway, I kind of got on a rant there lol. Hope this helps.

Try an efficient meditation system, like for example "Pointing Out the Great Way" by Daniel Brown. Get your meditation going first on the pillow, Learn to spot any thought/concept arising directly when it emerges from consciousness/emptiness, see it move in that, and dissolve back into that. Then get the meditation "automized" Nonmeditation-Yoga-Style without any effort or artificial activity, the meditation doing itself (advanced stage). That gets the separate-self-arisings "doing" the meditation out of the way (they are just more thought-arising). Then move it into every-day life (Postsamadhi-Meditation). Then, your visual field will start becoming nondual and empty, like a hologram. Bliss without any cause starts to flow, the normal feeling good- feeling bad cycles of the separate self stop. Then, remove all remaining subtle filters/lenses/centers of the separate self arisings, learn to see/spot them fast enough and not "see through them"/"not looking out from them", until only the Nondual Infinite Awareness Space remains, and all perceptions appearing as mere imagined appearances, empty, lucent and hologram-like, moving in "It", perceptions perceiving themselves. And then check "WHO" is aware of that Infinite Nondual Field of mere appearance, with thoughts and world-objects moving and appearing in it like the wind, moving through You.Then, at one point, suddenly even the last feeling of an empty nonlocal witness perceiving a kind of Infinity/Totality will drop, totally becoming one with field. One without a second. Maybe even the One Hand will give you a clap then. The One without a second, initially unaware of itself when no arisings move (Nirvikalpa, Cessation, Deep Sleep,...), but with the potential for sentience. Always eternally right here now. And then, maybe consider the Empty Mirror Job Opening. Selling Water by the River PS: @GLORY "No they can be awake Or maybe even Awake But they are not AWAKE™" May I borrow that somtimes from you? I just love it PS: And whatever precisely the latest definitions of God Realization/awakening/alien awakening/.... are for Leo these days, the writer of these lines probably respectfully disqualifies for that.

Love, beauty and bliss are always there but we also have lives to live that demand our attention to be occupied with other tasks. The demand to be entertained or pleasured with "24/7 bliss" is pathological. Instead, you should learn how to contact bliss so that you can be with it when you are not engaged with other more urgent, distracting worldly things. Obviously, bliss is also present in the worldly activity too but not in the form you were expecting, or have as yet learned to appreciate. To appreciate the extraordinary in the ordinary is a wiser intention than to demand 24/7 pleasure from mystic-realization-experiences.

Blissness is starting to leak in and taking me over im on the teeter of awakening i just realized that all my problems are not real im just a thought i see the beauty in creation i can see infinity working in everyone there no limit to creation thats why it seems so real its beatiful i broke threw the materialised paradigm it seems completely absurd to me that there's a external world there's not its just consiness using its infinity to dualized it self when really its all the same source i think the reason why we suffer is because it feels so great to wake up like to truly wake up to be so bought into the worries of life only to find out death is a comedy it feels so blissfull im so glad to achieve this by such a young age in my life as 17 i think im gonna be really happy and i dont think anything will bother me because its all just beauty as allan watts would say magnificent illusion

?? I have come to the realization... that the narrative of love and beauty and bliss 24/7 is nonsense ?. I used to believe in it. Then I found out that all the teachers who preached this were human too and suffered in the human condition just as much as anyone else. Some of them were even very nasty. Yes, they did have experiences that they used to rationalize their beliefs, and I am aware that Leo has experienced some very intense energetic events, but... when they play a game of "I am the most awake person on the planet!", how can I take them serious? What sort of wise teacher would play a game of "enlightenment competition" with his peers? What sort of love is that? I had a friend just like that. I really adored him. He was really fanatical about mushrooms. Really fanatical. Y'all think you've taken mushrooms? Well, not like this! He took them multiple times a day, for several years ?. He was really nuts. He called them his vitamins and would take a normal human dose in the morning and function normally on it. Hell, he said he did his best work while on mushrooms! He kept increasing his dosages too, his highest dose was about 100-150g dry. And guess what... he came to the same realization as Leo, that HE is the ONLY awake person! The only gateway in the world! He suspected he might ascend soon, and figured that if he would go, the entire world would cease to exist, for he was at the center of it. The world never ceased to exist... ?Maybe we are all still waiting for him to ascend... Also... the bear ? Much confusion...! And that's a nice song. Yeah... ? I feel like my own journey into spirituality was based on my desire to die. After all, the goal of spirituality is enlightenment, or, ego-death. And the ego is the self... But it was of course much too inappropriate and embarassing to actually say that I wanted to die so, well, there we go. It's actually really sad. How did life become such a sad mess? I don't even know.

I had the worst death anxiety for like 20 years after my realization that death is not real i can finally be at peace of mind. For 20 years it was a fight for silence but silence led to the dread of death. I could never meditate before because I was scared of quieting my mind. Now I have only tiny fears that I can overcome and it feels like bliss. I beat something that cannot be beat. If you are terrified of death and its your worse fear when you overcome you are fearless because nothing was worse

Dear Shrek of Justice (lovethat name ), we are guests here in Leos House, that he build over a long time, with a lot of work, and many marvelous videos & content. So that is to be highly respected. I wish him that he finds all the beauty, understanding, bliss and love on a 24/7 basis that is possible (And for everybody else in the forum of course also. There are many extraordinary people here). I am sure that he had many understandings, Awakenings and experiences that led him to saying what you mention above. That said, you can find my personal perspective in my past posts on the topics on Enlightenment and Awakening. Concerning that sometimes it can look here a little less than rational, and like a mix between these: and my all time favourite: Well: My personal opinion is that Planet Earth needs more Empty Mirrors: I personally would be delighted if we hum along that song more often: Group Hug! respectfully, yours truly and bon voyage! Selling Water by the River

Not every possibility has to imagined. There is an Infinity of Infinities, and the Infinities have different sizes (see Cantors Set Theory, and my past posts). That means there is choice in what is imagined. Reality will never run out of Dimensions/Worlds/Lilas, even when not manifesting everything possible one. Not every crap has to be imagined. And why should that happen? Reality is not stupid, its the total opposite of stupid. And besides: The opposite is also (and much more true): You will get to experience every possible beauty and bliss. You view the coin just from one side. And also fully dualistic, and only from the perspective of the separate self. You sit at resources at this forum and the Internet for which Truth-Seekers of the past would have "killed for". The choice is on you (written with small y). Actually, there is no small separate you, only an appearance of it happening within the big You, but that perspective wil not help you at all. So better forget about that side of the coin. And the You (with a big Y) has nothing to loose or gain ever.... That is actually the best news possible. Selling Water by the River

A little bit at first. But I was overtaken by bliss that I didn't care. Also, I switched postures.

Hello~ Last night, had this weird dream where a woman sent me healing and activated my my third eye and my body with kundalini energy. In the dream, I remember feeling the activation. I've been healing my trauma for some time now. I was able to get my subconscious mind to response to my healing work that I've done, confirming my emotional releases. The next morning, I woke up with a sore lower back along with head tingling. I suddenly cried uncontrollably about my ego dying. This was totally unexpected. I don't feel the bliss and feel something is still stuck inside of me. I'm in this weird place. Has anyone gone through this and can shed some light?

Its more usually the side effect of Enlightenment/Bliss.

Nope. On a yoga Kriya. I am awakening every fucking morning. You guys do not know what you are missing by not having a proper energised practice. I am tapping into 5-MeO States of consciousness almost every fucking morning. Of course only for some seconds, not minutes or hours like on actual proper DMT. But at this point I probably not going to take psychedelics ever again. Don't see point. If I do I will only do them for recreation and fun. Bro, you can not imagine. There was not a 'self' at this point that could 'feel'. Consciousness exploded into pure Love. This is a best high than Heroin and Cocaine combined. It's pure Intense Love. It's fucking nuts. It's a fucking miracle. You don't feel a 'body' at this point, and of course not a 'mind' with emotions. Just like an explosion of Bliss.

Job Opening: Empty Mirror (female, male, diverse, alien,…, infinitely flexible!) on Imagined Planet Earth Job Description: Growing in the context of Planet Earth from business-/lifecycle to business-/lifecycle. Polishing the frame and surface of your neither existing nor non-existing Empty Mirror Nature and getting rid of your imagined/appearing frame, although there EX-ists no Empty Mirror and no frame. Experiencing various reactions concerning the Empty Mirror and its frame, like ranging from burning at the stake, nailing to a cross, any other funny way to get rid of your current frame, like being declared heretic and banned from the tribe into the desert to die a lonely Empty Mirror death, to being venerated and founding world religions. And anything in between. It never really gets boring, at least not for a long time! You can imagine your job as beig something like this Empty Mirror: Disclaimer: Neither the Empty Mirror got hurt making this video (only its frame). Also, no imaginary bear really suffered from the Empty Mirror Nature of “others” in its Empty Mirror Nature, it only appeared that the imagined bear frame got a bit confused and agitated. Job Responsibilities: Staying in your Empty Mirror Nature. Trying to not confuse the image in the mirror, or its not-so-empty frame, with the Empty Mirror itself. Sometimes not refusing to tell other Empty Mirrors that maybe not only the reflections in their Empty Mirror are imagined, but also that their whole frame of “their” empty mirror is imagined. Sometimes it may even be wise to highlight that maybe possibly the frame of the Empty Mirror is not fully gone. Or unwise, see the little confusion-incident happening in the video above. Looking in your Empty Mirror Nature and knowing “It” is still there, and you being it/having ever been it/ever will be it, while being told by a “fellow” Empty Mirror with a maybe still not fully gone frame that there is no Empty Unchanging Eternal Mirror, and that all there is the changing flow of reflection in the Mirror with a frame. Then, looking deeply into the Empty Mirror, and being very relieved the still being there/never not having been there/always will be there-ness of the Empty Mirror of your True Being. Smiling and staying loving when encountering imagined bears. Education and Experience Required: A long and proven (not too successful) track record of suffering and being discontent over many many empty-mirror-lifetimes trying many many different frames. Having tried all possible designs of Empty Mirror frame fashions, and found them all lacking in the end, but fun to try. Having been told in the story of the Platform Sutra with Shenxiu and Huineng that there is no mirror to polish, understanding that, and yet continuing to polish the mirror. Having wondered how one could have been so stupid in not seeing the forest for the trees, or the Empty Mirror for its reflections and frame. Honestly having had the experience of being humbled about your the stupidity of ones own mirror-frame on the path to admitting that you have an Empty-Mirror with no frame is also very helpful. Knowledge and Skills: Having gained enough experience in loving all empty mirror frames as imagined reflections. Having gotten proficient in hearing the Sound of the One Hand can also be beneficial. And if you are into it, having seen your face before your parents were born. Benefits and Compensation: Compensation Package: Getting to experience the infinite bliss of your true empty mirror nature 24/7, directly being wired from the Big Boss, Reality itself. Insurance Package: Even if you get confused and rack up Karma on your frame, rest assured that the Trust Fund of your True Nature will always bail you out. Its true potential will burn any amount of Karma that you like to paint your frame or mirror with. The processing time for the withdrawal from your Trust Fund can take quite some time, but rest assured that in the end it will always be delivered. Having lifelong fun in appearing to still have a frame while just having just a big maintenance-free Infinite Empty Mirror. About Planet Earth: We are a wonderful little place at the edge of the galaxy. We don’t know why there are no signals from our fellow employer-competition (Fermi-Paradoxon). We hope they uploaded themselves to some subtle realm in the Multiverse during their evolution from physical to higher realms, but we are not sure if some jealous AI got them and decided that it didn’t like their mirror-frames. Actually, you can join our enterprise right in the interesting time while we try out if our newly bred pet-AIs are fond of our mirror-frames. But don’t worry, recheck your Insurance Package above. In Reality, nothing can go wrong. It can only appear to do so. All in all, a wonderful imagined journey in your new work-environment in very interesting times, that can end with the frame of your Empty Mirror singing along the Black Eyed Peas in your new work-place, the playing of which is officially allowed in our office environment. Your fellow Empty Mirrors will not be disturbed and will happily sing along….. Respectfully and lovingly yours Selling Water by the River

Welcome. The more conscious I get the less I try to manipulate my experience or mind. I don't try to think positively or manifest stuff. I am very natural and easy-going. There were years in my life where I did a lot of visualization exercises and tried to control my mind a lot. It had its uses but I also outgrew that. The challenge for me is that I am very creative and always having new insights, so meditation is not very effective for the way my mind works. For me meditation just boils down to sitting still and enjoying Consciousness. Sometimes I'm in the mood for that, but often not because I am using my mind for understanding reality deeper. So there are some trade-offs there. Not a fan There is some truth to the notion that ignroance is bliss. Life was a lot easier when I didn't even know spirituality was a thing. I could just work on my biz and be happy. Now that is not possible because I know too much and biz cannot make me happy like it used to. But that is compensated for by my insane understanding of Consciousness. So I have no regrets.

I went to sleep for about four hours and I woke up realizing I didn't set the alarm, I used the restroom, and then I laid back down to go back to sleep... I was asking myself if I'm really afraid that all of this experience of a physical nature and the perception of interaction with objects will just disappear... I had this feeling before when I was going through my transition in my ceremonies... I had experienced that it was time for me to just not exist. I remember how I told myself I'm just now getting the hang of this existence... i'm getting to the point where I'm appreciating this reality... and I'm still wanting to live it more fully... but I also was in the surrender phase so if it was my time to not experience this anymore then it's my time. There's also an experience that wasn't in my direct awareness it's like a vision of my future where I'm just sitting there deeply contemplating what reality is and then I suddenly see white light and that's all that left and it's as if everything I knew as physical disappears. I'm calm when I'm viewing this but then I know i feel like i'm afraid that it will happen. I'm trying to go back into my direct experience... what do I know? I know that in the ceremonies I had that feeling... it was peaceful even though I was accepting my fate to not exist in this world. It was my mind in the state of consciousness that really started to run rampant. In fact the more I allowed my mind in that state run I ended up telling myself... I'm never going to experience having sex and more. I had been celibate and now i'm going to die without allowing myself to have sex, and I'm going to miss that. ideally I wanted to have sex with someone who has been present in my ceremonies for four years. He has been a muse to me without him realizing to what extent. Because he wasn't with me physically it was easy for me to become celibate. The depth of my messages of him inspired me some much that I knew what had touched me so deeply that I couldn't be so careless to allow myself or others to express anything less than the love and curiosity I feel for him. I can't pretend that I want to experience sexual relations with someone I dont want to share those experiences with... not just with anyone because they're in my physical experience out of convenience. I feel I have a responsibility to myself and to others... I don't want to pretend that there's a bond that i want to create with them that involves a sexual nature. I know I just don't want to have sex with this man. I know that there is going to be so much depth to our relationship that it will be deeply spiritual. He's already my spiritual lover... I've been giving myself time and space to prepare for our intense reunion, and allowing time and space for him to prepare too. I know the deeper I go into my spirituality, the more i'm going to attract my lover who is just as spiritual. But I'm developing emotionally, psychologically, intellectually, creatively, physically... The more I do this, the more i'll attract my lover who is developing himself to higher degrees as well. Before my dad went to sleep he put a meatloaf in the oven. He asked me to turn off the oven and put the meatloaf away. I set an alarm because we both knew I'd get lost into my Journal. So I had to do that real quick) If you've ever experienced a psychedelic then you might understand what i'm saying when I give this example. Especially if you have experienced the depth and unknowness of the experience and the magnitude of difference we originally perceive from the waking world. Well he would be my psychedelic lover and anyone else would be the waking world... lol... now that I'm experiencing the waking world as a ceremony without psychedelics... i'm starting to transition my ideas of a psychedelic, spiritual lover into a manifestation of the waking world too. It's not like I just have visions in the jungle about a man out there somewhere. We have met. We met on our first ceremonies of Aya five and a half years ago. Before we all shared our ceremonies for the first time I remember how we instantly were attracted to each other. At my state of consciousness at that time, the first thing that I was attracted to was how handsome he was. I happened to be in the van that went to pick him up from the airport. We were pulling up and he was standing there and my heart started racing... "wow... i'm so fucking lucky that I chose this van"... lol... automatically I qualified myself not worthy though... "but he's probably too good for me." So he was getting help to put his bags on top and got into the van. I remember I watched him get in with a friendly smile, but I didn't want to stare... or be too obvious... lol... so I looked out my window and waited for the van to continue... I was giving it time before I went to check him out again. But in my periphery I actually noticed he was checking me out. I was trying to play it cool and pretended I didn't notice. But I remember I was happy that he actually was seeming to maybe think i was attractive too. But I was playing it cool... and I'm pretty good socially and there was all this new stuff going on so I just went with it and tried to be in the moment as much as i could be in my current state of consciousness which I didn't really realize existed like I am more aware of now. There were other moments that I saw our eyes connect with curiosity. When we all gathered into the long wooden boat... it seemed like we wanted to get seats close to each other but not that close... I wanted a good distance to observe him. Also we had a choice of three rooms to pick to sleep and place our belongings... I walked into a room and turned to see if he was going to choose the same room, but three other guys followed me in and so our room was full. I saw him watching me and even noticed a slight hesitation that maybe he should've acted quicker, but two rooms were already filled and so I watched him walk to the remaining room. To be honest I don't know when we had our first one on one conversation... for the most part we had conversations with the group and so we were feeling each other out in a subtle way. I just want to say there is a lot more to my experience of the first of my Aya ceremonies, but I'm choosing to remember my thoughts about this spiritual lover of mine... and at this time I didn't even think that this is my spiritual lover... he was just some stranger who happened to be at the same retreat as I was. He was handsome yes, but many men are handsome. It wasn't until I experienced my ceremonies did something else evolve into my awareness. Lol... I'm not sure if i'm repeating myself or not... it's getting hard to distinguish the conversation I'm typing from the conversation in my mind... but I'll just go with it... if I repeat myself it's only to get into the the context of what i'm expressing at this time. In the first ceremonies I was getting visions from eight of the other guests there for ceremony. They were talking to me, but I couldn't hear what they were saying. I got a vision of him and he was sleeping. I got a few visions of him during the ceremony, but always he was sleeping. I was concerned after ceremony that these people were in my ceremonies... i was told that these ceremonies deal with you personally... so why were others in my experience? and why couldn't i hear what they were saying to me? The second ceremony was when my entire reality was shattered but in a great way... after this ceremony I knew I was never going to be the same. What I considered impossible was happening and so I knew that there is so much more than what I thought I knew. Especially when I started singing Icaros in a language I only heard the night before. Not just singing any Icaros but the same Icaros the female shaman was singing... I knew the song and I was creating a harmony with her with ease. Not only did it shock me but it shocked the facilitators who've been a part of the retreat for years with these shamans. They hadn't seen that before. Most of the time I was sending out positive vibes of love and encouragement for people (mostly the eight that had shown themselves to me on the first ceremony) and sending my energy abundance for the shamans to draw on for assistance. At that state of consciousness, I thought I was being possessed by Gaia or Aya themselves... I never thought that it was a side of me awakening and showing itself to me and others. No way was I capable of having those powers. I started getting an awareness of who the shamans were working on directly. It's pitch black, maybe I have an awareness that I knew where people were when we began... and I can still sense when they moved from one person to the other and who that person was. When they were working on him my body was in a state of ecstatic euphoric bliss. I didn't need to send my energy or vibes out for assistance at those times. Instead it was as if my body and soul was letting me know something my mind couldn't fathom at that time. But I didn't want my mind to take over... I just let my body and emotions express itself and the laughter and elation and the sexual arousal was out of this world. In that moment I was realizing this strange man was the man i've been waiting for this whole time. (after the ceremony my mind would return questioning the experience whether this can be possible or not, but in the moment I knew) I reached a point of complete surrender so i wasn't hiding any of my responses in ceremony... in fact that's what the female shaman had said when we asked how I was able to sing Icaros with her the next day during the recalling of our experience. When you completely surrender anything can happen. I wasn't the first guest to do that... she said i was the second. When I was expressing my experience of the entire second ceremony I get really caught up in my emotions and I remember even briefly mentioning my sexual frustration with a guest and gestured his way but not trying to catch his eyes and I said it quickly enough that most probably didn't catch it. I thought maybe he didn't either, but he confirmed from a later conversation that he heard it but then questioned if i actually said it out loud... lol... the guests who were laying next to me in ceremony mentioned how much energy they were feeling from me... it was intense for them. One of them was laughing at himself and at me, because when I was in that ecstatic state he said i was arousing him with all the noises i was making... lol The third ceremony I connected to my Samoan side. I mentioned I wasn't really sure about the culture since I hadn't lived it for most of my life, but during this ceremony I started doing the "sa'sa" dance. It's a style of dance the Samoans do when they use their body and the floor or ground to create rhythms. Normally it's done in a group setting but again it was as if my body and soul knew exactly what it was doing as if i had been doing this my entire life. I didn't let my mind stop me. So not only do you have two shamans singing their Icaros... you have a guest creating percussion beats and rhythms using her body and floor throughout the ceremony...lol... I had an endless stream of energy... and again I just wanted to send my love, encouragement, and energy for everyone to use to help heal whatever they were going through. I remember thinking we all chose to come here and work out the shit that's stopping us... you can do it! we can do it! Let's do it! We're doing it! I was chanting as well but it wasn't the Samoan language... it wasn't Shipibo either... it was a language I hadn't heard before but damn it for some reason it was natural. Not always did i know what i was saying but at other times i was getting the impression of the what i was saying. I don't remember having any messages of him... i was focused on the collective as a whole not singling out my attention on one person at a time. lol.. i remember that the shamans finished their Icaros and they have to wait until our energies settle before they close ceremony... I was so full of energy that I didn't want to stop i just started doing it softer. It was getting so quiet around us and I knew I should stop soon but i just couldn't stop until i knew it was time to stop. the comments I got from everyone the next day were very humorous. How were you doing that? You're a one person band? I couldn't imagine anyone being able to snap as quickly as you were. I thought there were insects in the room at one time... I remember feeling the same way when i was tapping my nails on the floor during a section of ceremony... lol Those first ceremonies I just couldn't believe how scared i was when i went but in ceremony it's like i've never been as happy as i was while i was in them... Each ceremony my mind would think there's nothing that can beat this ceremony this has to be the best ceremony i'll ever have... but each one kept getting better and better. Again people next to me would mention how my energy was affecting them by being next to me... it was as if new people would find their way to lay next to me to see what it felt like... lol There was a day when we did a day hike on the land and I know he and I finally made our way next to each other to get some one on one time. I was amused because I'm so short compared to him and he's like a giant. I felt like it was easy for me to move around the jungle with my height, but I could see the extra effort he had to do to get around. He scraped his back on a fallen tree he was trying to duck under. There was a few us that ended up getting bees stuck in our hair. I can't remember if he was the one that ran into it or not... lol... maybe because he's so tall but anyway these bees are burrowing bees so it felt like they were trying to burrow into your skull... I was so high on life that I was laughing about it and just slowly trying to remove them from my hair and everyone was helping each other out so it didn't take long. but our guide said that stories say that if you encounter these bees unexpectedly it a sign of fertility soon. During this day I knew he was gaining more interest in me and he was trying to get to know me a little more personally. When I was going through these experiences again my mind was like how is this possible... what's really going on? and who in the hell is this guy? My approach at that time is to keep my distance and observe.... I'm not going to approach him let me see if he wants to approach me or not... this could all just be in my head. But I started to get confirmation that at least there's a mutual attraction going on. We all gathered into a boat to ride down the river... again we wanted to be close but not too close... everyone had their cameras out recording and taking pictures of the beauty we found ourselves in. All of a sudden the guide picked out monkeys... it's the guides land and so he's been building a relationship with these monkey... lol... i had a nickname the jungle man for him... not too inventive but still... lol... he started to call to him with the noises... I'm recording all of this they are making their way through the trees and all of a sudden they're climbing down the trees to enter our boat. and the guide was already passing out bananas for us to feed them...i wasn't even aware of it because i was looking through the view of my camera and I didn't want to miss the opportuinity to capture footage of my first monkeys in their natural habitat.. and then they are right next to us... sitting on our laps moving from one to another... climbing on our bodies and shoulders to get from one place to another... one ended up sitting next to the ledge by me and i was able to pet him and just touch him sending out vibes of safety and love. There was another monkey that started to fall and I caught him before he hit anything.. they were wrapping around our bodies with their long tails... it was just absolutely amazing! So I have my camera trying to capture it all and I also found myself trying to get some footage of him during this experience but again not trying to linger long and being too obvious of my attraction towards him. I still have the footage and I caught him recording me and he was kind of in awe of me and then caught himself... and went back to engaging with everything going on. After a while we ended up in a large open area of the river and the guide pointed out the pink dolphins... I'm hunting around with my camera trying to capture footage of them. He stopped the boat to see if anyone was interested in swimming. I knew I wanted to... I looked at him to see if he was going to dive in or not.. and we were checking out what we were going to decide... we didn't bring swimsuits we'd just have to go in with what we had on. Actually maybe we did have swimsuits on... i think he had his swim shorts on and maybe i had one on under my clothes. I don't remember removing my clothes I just looked at him and I started taking off my boots and he did too and we just dove into the water. It's so refreshing to swim in the river. Every morning during the retreat I would swim in the river while everyone was still sleeping... I'd do it before I would do some yoga and breathing techniques until it was breakfast time. Any way... I wasn't swimming with him... i was enjoying how much I love to swim and because of how everything was going I thought maybe the pink dolphins would come and swim with us... lol... they didn't but it was so nice... everything was so right We ended up on a sandy beach where we docked and allowed everyone to walk around. We were all so peaceful and happy... As I was walking, I found a few fish bones that I recognized the female shaman using in her jewelry. I found three of them and so i figured i'd give them to her so she can use them. I did when we returned. We don't speak the same language so I was telling her to make her jewelry with what I found and left it at that. The fourth ceremony is a little hazy to me now. I remember before we started he came to lay next to me but not right next to me. He had a space for someone to lay between us. I remember chuckling and said it's much safer to not be next to me. If you're next to me it could be dangerous... lol... he laughed and said I like a little danger... and I commented that might be what you say now... But the most of what I remember is feeling like I was a caterpillar in it's cocoon transforming. I had a vision of a swampy unhealthy location which was a symbol of my digestive system. I need to change my behavior of what i'm allowing myself to consume. I wasn't too outwardly active. This was definitely my own internal ceremony. I believe I even fell asleep for a while in my little cocoon. I was hardly sleeping while I was there. I didn't sleep in my bed except for the last night... I'd always try to sleep for a while in the maloka...the ceremonial room. Usually there were two other girls that would sleep there with me. I had so much energy that my sleep wouldn't last long and I'd make my way to the river for my routine while I was there. The two girls were roommates back in Utah.. They are amazing women and there's so much i'm leaving out because I'm just trying to recall the gist of my experience with this Spiritual man. One of the girls mentioned one time after her ceremony during our group discussions... that she saw two of the guests together in the ceremony...I heard her, but I didn't know she was talking to me. It could've been any of us. After the retreat and we were back into the main city to leave did she end up confronting me about it. She knew it was me and she knew it was him. She said we were snakes entangling ourselves around a staff moving upwards. It was like we were a living caduceus. She also said that she and i were building a green temple together. The female shaman gave me my bones back in necklace form... I was so surprised... I didn't know she thought I wanted her to make me necklaces from what I found. I loved them though and it felt really special to me. I had three and so I kept one and I knew I wanted to give him one, and I had another friend who I was building a good relationship with... he's actually the one i was singing the Icaros towards in the second ceremony. So I gave him the last one. When I gave it to my Spiritual lover, he accepted it with an open heart. When he tried it on though it was too small... so I had to try to explain to the female shaman that I needed her to extend it... using sign language techniques and pointing at him... she understood. And now we've come to the fifth ceremony the final ceremony of this retreat. He decided it's time to be next to me in ceremony. I was excited and nervous at the same time... This is where I'm starting to feel a little hesitation. I want to not be ashamed and embarrassed. Early I said there are things in my past that I thought was embarrassing but I have healed those already... but as my mind had time to continue processing I knew there were things still in my memory that I'm embarrassed and ashamed of I haven't healed. But I realize there's nothing to be ashamed of because it just happened to be where my state of consciousness was and I didn't know any better. This spiritual man.... because it's so fantastical is something that makes me feel embarrassed and ashamed of expressing to others. I've tried to express them with friends and family and because of their state of consciousness and their experiences... there's no way that could be happening to me... i'm just hallucinating. In fact this spiritual man was the one that told me these are "just visions in the jungle" There's nothing deeper than that. I was confident in some of my messages during ceremony... especially when they dealt with only me... like the digestive cleansing and also somehow naturally having shamanic abilities. But the rest especially dealing with him I wasn't so confident in. I would allow them to convince or at least put doubt in me that I was looking at it all wrong. but also there's another part that remembers how clearly I was understanding the situation during ceremony... so powerfully and with certainty that I couldn't ignore either. There was definitely this back and forth battle I was dealing with. He and I have been in contact since these first ceremonies and let me tell you it wasn't what i expected. And I know it makes him uncomfortable expressing my curiosity towards him. At first he was caught in the flow of it all and then when he returned back into his "real life" away from ceremony... it was apparent that our experience was just a result of hallucinations and fake feelings and emotions we shared, but in real life this cannot continue. These are not his words these are my interpretation of what he was expressing to me. But again why am I hesitant to continue... because he's a private man. He's been recording spiritual podcasts since he returned from the ceremonies and at one time he was with a group that showed their faces. He however placed a virtual figure over himself as if he was wearing a mask so others couldn't see who his true identity is. What is he hiding from others and himself? Why am I concerned that he's going to be upset if I continue to share our experience with the collective? Who's going to read this anyway? As far as I know from how he's spoken to me... we just happen to be friendly with each other from time to time. I'm just some girl he had a few good times with, but I'm out there... I'm crazy and intense... my life experience is completely different from his own... and he can't or doesn't want to understand that. (What he thinks about me is from his judgements on me... he doesn't want to confirm the truth by actually getting to know me.) We're from two different countries and he's not ready to have a serious relationship... with someone long distance... or maybe never at all. (I had experienced polyamorous relationships before and I remember asking him if that's an option because I don't want him to stop wanting to share relationsips with other people if he wants to, but I'd like to get to know him better and would like to start a relationship with him that involves sharing feelings about his and my experiences) She might be sweet and spiritual, but her understanding of spirituality is whoo-whoo... it's not a true in-depth search into spirituality. (He is so closed minded about the "proper" way to do spirituality... in fact because he doesn't have an open mind in this area... it's hard to be attracted to him) I also think he assumes I'm interested in him for his money... I literally didn't even think about his money... i didn't care what money he has... that wasn't anything I cared about when I'm looking for a romantic partner. In fact I usually stayed cleared of men with money because i felt ashamed that i was poor. When I started to get the picture, he had a good job and probably made decent money i could hear my insecurities welling up inside me. But because of the intensity of the messages, I was trying to overcome that insecurity to give it a chance. Am I still attached to the words he expressed to me now? Maybe a little because I remember it affecting me. But what do you know now about this situation? I know I wasn't conscious and neither was he. Can i blame myself or him for not being conscious... no it's just how it is... we don't know until we know. Am I conscious? yes... but i know my consciousness will continue to mature, but there does seem to be a huge shift of what being conscious means. Is he conscious? he is, but he hasn't hit the huge shift yet... but I know he will continue to mature too. I get confirmations all the time of this during ceremonies. But I can read his behavior and hear the words he speaks to determine his level of consciousness and I can confirm in my direct experience that it's not attractive, regardless of the messages I've received... of course there's a desire to attract when it's time and with patience which again is ever present in my messages... but in my direct experience it is not now. Just because he's not fully attractive to me at this time... does it mean that I should reveal what he would consider secrets? NO... I want him to trust me... I am trust-worthy... it doesn't matter i'm ready to expose myself completely... he is not ready... I feel i would need his permission. I respect him and our relationship. Alright I've decided to not continue with all the details. I'm just trying to build up an understanding of how much he means to me. I thought after the first trip to Peru it would stop when I had ceremonies without him. I joked with him when I was returning for my second round... that maybe the spell he cast on me will be broken... it was a joke but i was also curious what these rounds of ceremonies would reveal. Short and simple... it didn't stop it just deepens. I get messages in my dreams and even while I'm doing art at times. It just continues.. I got sidetracked because I was trying to really talk about the moment I thought the physical world was going to collapse or dissolve around me. The moment I made unconscious decisions because I didn't know any better. These moments that afterwards I was ashamed and embarrassed of because I can ask myself... why didn't you know better? how could you have done this or allow others to do that to you? I didn't know what I didn't know... and I was unconscious and others were unconscious too. Do I need to go through all the details to purge it out? No I don't think so... I think I can pick out the moments of memory that is still holding me back and purge it out myself. I know I have been getting a feeling that I don't have to share everything so openly. Which is really hard for me I want to be open and vulnerable... but I'm getting a deeper understanding that the conscious level of the collective isn't ready to support me with my experiences. Because of their judgements it will affect me. Instead of me processing and trying to manifest... if I tell more people the more they will influence the process. If they don't agree or if they are negative with what I express then... it's just going to be more of a challenge for me. If i can keep it to myself or run into people who understand then it's going to be easier to manifest. The collective conscious affects me and I affect the collective consciousness. Recalling this first thought of death... I had to overcome that fear to experience it... and that's when the huge shift happened in my life. If I'm still remembering or even having future visions of the physical world dissapearing still... is it really scary? It's not really scary to me because I know that there is no finality... there's no end... there's no completion... these words were created to find a way to communicate concepts... but these words don't actually describe existence. Maybe it's not the fear of it going to happen... but it's the fear that I have visions I want to create in this aspect of experiencing this physical world that I want to experience before I transition to whatever is next. But I know how safe I am... I know how ultimately loving and patient this infinitely intelligent consciousness we are is... it's always helping me to ready to be ready to be ready... and so when i'm ready to have the physical world dissolve... I'll be ready for it... for now my fear is the powerful opportunity I have, and I want to be more conscious, so the appreciation is not being lost to be less conscious. I want to be my highest potential... and I am at the degree of my development of consciousness. My potential will continue to increase but i'm going to stop shaming myself and others from their past decisions or even their current decisions. I'm not going to be embarrassed there's nothing to be embarrassed about. We are living in perfection... which again may seem chaotic, but really its infinitely intelligent and I don't need to force or shame existence. It's what's teaching me truth. I'm going to allow it to guide me.

Learn cutting off (or seeing them for what they are, as objects moving in you) your separate self arisings (thoughts and feelings) in your mindstream. They will get/arise faster and faster, and you can see them emerging out of consciousness as consciousness, and being elaborated in language afterwards. I had to read "Pointing out the Great Way," by Daniel Brown (chapters Skill of Reckognition and Yoga of Unelaboration) ten times plus to get it, and try a lot in implementing it. Pointing out the Great Way is a synthesis and summary of the Mahadmudra-System of Tibetan Buddhism. If you learn to cut off these mental arisings, at first they get faster and faster (Skill of Reckognition). That is some kind of protection mechanism of the separate self/Ignorance/Maya. Look into their nature, they arise out of empty and aware consciousness, they are not separate from consciousness, and they return to consciousness. But the tricks of the separate self mindstream arisings are limited, at some point you know all these separate self arisings (thoughts and feelings). The first shift comes when you can cut them all off and stay in the Awareness that you are (Skill of Reckognition). From that point onwards, bliss develops just from doing that. And later, it starts getting vast spaciousness and nondual. And you realize the Always-Here-Mind (Yoga of Unelaboration). That You/Mind/Reality doesn't come and go on time, but is always here, eternal and fundamental. And then you develop full Nonduality of the Visual Field as mere infinite appearance (Yoga of One Taste), and from there on fully "empty out" the separate self in Nonmeditation Yoga (Awakened Awareness being Reality itself). Up until this first shift (Skill of Reckognition, see above), meditation can be pleasant or unpleasant. After this shift, you generate your own happiness, on the pillow and off the pillow. In Mahamudra its called the three special states of bliss, clarity and nonconceptual stillness. And try some Psychedelics as preview for Nonduality/infinite Visual Field of mere appearance, and to empty out/transcend the separate self. Just don't expect that you have enough time in these states to empty or transcend that last remnants of the separate self (very subtle feelings of individuality/separtness watching some kind of infinity) fully. If it all gets transcend permanently, great and Namaste! But if you can't sustain that state sobre, maybe some separate self arisings still happen to cloud over the infinite mere appearance awareness-space that You are. All the best ( : Selling Water by the River

Nobody in this forum is enlightened, including me. Enlightenment is far beyond god-realization, there is actual nirvana and moksha and paranirvana and infinite different levels of liberation and bliss. One day everyone reading this will be enlightened

Your True Nature = Bliss/Happiness itself. The Source of it. The nearer you get, the better you feel. You will only rest when you are happy/blissfull, by definition. So how could being happy and free from anxiety not be important? Maybe my last post is also interesting for you. Water by the River

Nice. The bliss of the flow state is the little sister of the bliss when resting in Your True Being. Flow is very powerful, and a major source of bliss while still being in the claws of the separate-self-contraction. A main building block of the separate self is discontent, suffering and contraction, clearly felt behind the forehead. How much tension there is you clearly get to feel when its gone. Or before fully waking up, when passing from sleep to the waking state, that contraction kicks in. I remember a day when that didn't kick in the morning. Dzogchen-Trekchö: Release that tension, and any of the increasinly subtle separates sense-arisings/feelings. Gradually releasing these tensions (some tradition call it chakra-knots), energy flows more freely, the bliss of your True Nature begins to flow, turning the visual field gradually more nondual and bright and lucid, mere appearance, and identity more empty and empty.... the merry-go-round of Awakening -> Understanding/Realization -> Awakening -> Understanding/Realization -> ... Until... the bottom of the bucket breaks. What do you need to get a Lila/World going? Separate Self Arisings in the mindstream = frequent discontent/suffering/self-contraction. And experiences that relieve that [Maslows-Pyramid stage 1-6, plus X]. And you have the Samsara show of drama-comedy-tragedy merry-go-round. Not that too many just rest in their True Being, and are blissfull without [Maslows-Pyramid stage 1-6, plus X]. And, o-dare-you, wake-up. Show must go on.... What are the real Heros of Manifestation? Not the "ones" that wake up. But the ones that keep the show going. Stage 6 Maslow by the way was Self-Transcendence, which he added later in life. Funny, I have never seen stage 6 Self-Transcendence being used in a Business-Training-context using the Maslow-Pyramid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Highwaymen_(country_supergroup) ... I fly a starship Across the Universe divide And when I reach the other side I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can Perhaps I may become a highwayman again Or I may simply be a single drop of rain But I will remain I'll be back again and again and again and again and again and again >Yeah, that’s what’s been my aim with psychedelics and 5 meo, to reach states that I couldn’t reach sober but then help that inform my understanding in my sober state. I can get into some deeper meditative states where things first start to move around and then begins to dissolve into light but it doesn’t compare to a more powerful trip. I have noticed how my understanding in my sober state makes my trips deeper so I can see that merry-go-round effect. To be continued!

>I feel like it’s become a living reality in some ways but there is also conditioning that is pulling me back and how I experience things now in relation to that conditioning I’ve definitely felt and still feel to some extent that I’ve completely lost my mind and gone insane because it’s so far out compared to what I thought reality was 3-4 years ago. Be good to your separate self. It is not that you are not that, but you are not ONLY that. You contain it. If you say "You are not it", on one hand it is true, on the other hand you contain it. You give rise to it, it arises in you. So in the end, you are not ONLY it (credits concerning the "you are not not only that" to Colette Davie). In Ken Wilbers language: Differentiation and Integration vs. Disassociation and .... problems. Your separate self will operate better, more efficient, more loving and way smarter when you no longer have ignorance, or believe to be ONLY that separate self. In the words of Daniel Brown: The small you/separate self gets out of the way, Awakened Awareness (Mahamudra/Dzogchen-term for Infinite Consciousness/Reality) takes over and does all tasks and daily life at hand much more smarter than the separate small self/you could. And since the intelligence from the separate self is just borrowed from the infinite Intelligence of Reality, you just remove a filter limiting the flow of intelligence and intuition. The "I am not only the separate self",or "the separate self arises in me, and its just a bundle/a Gestalt of moving I feelings/thoughts, with no real existence beyond its structure/Gestalt/structure-Gestalt=probability-arising-distribution of thoughts/feelings" is in my opinion the more sophisticated version of Neti Neti. The separate self Gestalt/structure arisings "borrows" its appearance of being real/consciousness from Infinite Consciousness, like the planets are only shining from the light of the sun. It doesnt really exist/shine on its own (see the Video of Francis Lucille below). What is conscious is not the separate self, but infinite consciousness. And the separate self believing itself to be true is just being that misunderstanding arising/moving in that which is really conscious. You look out from your body like you look out from your car, but you are not your car. And with the separate self thoughts/feelings moving in you, its a bit more tricky, but a similiar confusion/mistaking what consciousness really is.... The only thing that fully drops from the separate self is the belief-concept (feeling and thought arisings) that you are only this body-mind or flow of identity-arisings. The rest of the separate self (or small you instead of You) can and should remain fully functional in You (Reality itself), that is the healthy version of the process. But if it all happens too fast (which can lead to a more "interesting" and unhealthy version of the process, with too little integration, see what happened to Ramana in the beginning. So huge is the bliss of realizing and dwelling in what You really are....). And until you experience the stabilized and integrated form, it can be an interesting ride... Have some humor on the path, a good map, and bon voyage! Luckily, it all happens in that which You really are, and you never can loose that. >I do admit that I’m to a certain extent trying to figure it out by thinking and reason but I’ve also experiences some unreasonable things in my trips so I know it has limits. I have had some breakthroughs but it’s not all clear so I’m weary of thinking ”I got it” and I can still feel there is this sense of wanting to ”grasp”. But I hope this can open me up more and help me go beyond that. To really get it, you need a change of state, an Awakening, as you write. For example via Psychedelics, and/or a good meditation system, like "Pointing out the Great Way, Brown". Or ideally, both. Then from these Awakenings come hopefully good/correct understandings/realizations. Correct understandings = understandings that facilitate and don't block further understandings/realization and Awakening-States. It is a merry-go-round of Awakening -> Realization/Understanding -> Awakening a level higher-> Realization/Understanding a level higher -> ... . Until you conform fully to the Enlightened Mind: And when your level of Awakening, boosted and stabilized by a foundation of correct or non-ignorant Understanding/Realization reaches a certain level, then Crossing Over to fully Realizing your True Nature can happen (necessary is normally a certain time of seeing the whole Visual Field/Awareness Bubble as mere infinite appearance arising, and seeing ALL thought/feeling-arisings moving as empty appearances in you). Especially the last point takes some time... A nice description is in Pointing Out the Great Way, Chapters on Crossing Over and Basis Enlightenment (Basis= Awakening to the Absolute Nature of Reality, in Zen "Great Enlightenment"). So you have to conform in Awakening State AND Understanding/Realization to the Real Nature of Things/Reality/Enlightened Mind, and then Crossing Over can happen all by itself. Infinite Consciousness/Reality realizing Itself what it is, Reality realizing Reality itself, since Reality is Infinite Consciousness. IT understands itself. And then one normally wonders why you haven't seen the forest for the trees earlier.... But hey, what a ride! But you can't force Crossing Over, that would be yet more of so called "artificial actitivites" of the separte-self-Gestalt, creating more Illusion while trying to force it. And that is why it is so difficult, and I am a bit less than totally happy with most of the maps we have so far about this process. Some traditions like Zen even made what some would call a fetish (sorry) out of throwing the maps away, like throwing away the Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra-Map [Wikipedia: the most important doctrines of the Laṅkāvatāra are the primacy of consciousness (Skt. vijñānavada), the teaching that consciousness as the only reality and that "all the objects of the world, and the names and forms of experience, are manifestations of the mind" as well as the "identification of the Buddha-nature (in the state of tathāgatagarbha) with alayavijñāna"]. More on that, see Wilber Integral Buddhism, chapter on Zen. Throwing maps away is true on some limited level, like getting out of only conceptual thinking into non-conceptual Awareness itself. But still... Look at the success-rate of enlightened ones, or rather the non-success-rate... Yet, I must admit I still love Zen, like whats more precise than your face before your parents were born? Or the Sound of the One Hand? Best map I have found so far is Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. That, maybe boosted by Psychedelics to get some introduction to the Nondual-States faster... And for Buddhism & Psychedelics, see: Psychedelic Buddhism: A User's Guide to Traditions, Symbols, and Ceremonies, Crowley, and Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Crowley. Not that Buddhism would ever do something like that.... ( : Francis Lucille on: Planets (separate self) shining in the light of the sun (Infinite Consciousness/Reality). They don't shine by themselves. Selling Water by the River ( :

I agree to all that Leo has written above. Some musings from over here: Free will vs. Determinism: The Real You (Infinite Consciousness/Reality) has absolute freedom. The separate self illusion arising in you just feels like being you, but is not you, never was you, never will be you. Never could. You contain these arisings of the separte self in the real You. So it doesn't really exist, and since it doesn't exist, it has no freedom. But the Real You has absolute freedom. Nothing is or could be outside of it to limit its power. You project this freedom that you so strongly intuit on the separate self. So it is an illusion/ignorance. But the core of that feeling of freedom of choice it true, it is the Real You. But: That reasoning will not be clear before some Awakenings into what you are, and then it can help you passing and ripening that understanding, and stabilizing you in resting what You are. Then & there it is beneficial. Before that, it is just impossible to fully get it. Structure of your World-Bubble-Perspective/Visual Field: Since any form of boundary between perspectives would be an imagined arising, it is illusory, an appearance. Your current consciousness is limited, you forget all other perspectives in real time. But you add/imagine separate self arisings (feelings and thoughts), which are the illusion/ignorance. With more consciousness, you can have a Vision like Leavitt (see book cover with infinite perspectives). To get Enlightenment or Omniscience into the structure of Reality, you don't need to see all perspectives, but to fully understand the nature/structure/essence of your perspective, which you then realize has necessarily to hold for all other perspectives/beings. And for all dimensions, since there are only perspectives in Indras Net. N+1 -style. Even a Molecule is some kind of proto-perspective, the interiortity of a Holon in Ken Wilbers theory for example. Although a very rudimentary one. Here some ideas/Koans how to investigate your perspective, and which kind of [Awakenings/Enlightenments] you need: all appearances are imagined arisings in you, any boundary to any other perspective would just be imagined/arising (so not real, just appearing): What is necessary for that Awakening: A state of sufficient Nonduality , appearances appearing as just appearances (hovering in you, hologram-like/translucent). Not the normal everyday state, so either lot of meditation done correctly or Psychedelics are necessary. Psychedelics are very useful to get a preview on that, it takes a while to get there via meditation. the True You as the fully empty Nothingness which is "structurally infinite": Awakening in to the Nothingness or empty cogniziant nature of your core. "Structurally infinite", since any boundary limiting it would just be an imagined appearance, NOT really limiting it, but appearing within it. Something outside that imagined boundary can always also appear/be imagined. And since it is infinite, has no boundary (that would just be an arising in itself), it can't go anywhere, can't die: Awakening into eternity or "always necessary here-ness, can't go anywhere else-ness, can not not be there-ness". Also wasn't created (that would be another arising). It has nothing outside of itself (would be another appearance/arising) which could have created or caused it. That is a mindf*** (sorry) of the highest degree once you stumble over it. No daddy, but You get used to it. ( : It can imagine whatever it wants (omnipotent). Then we have timeless/eternal, nonlocal/"everywhere"/every possible being and reality, literally the only "One" or Reality itself, nothing can be outside of It (omnipresent), and omnipotent (since its the only Reality, no other Reality is stopping It from whatever it wants). So we have eternal, infinite, omnipotent/all powerful. And in some persepctives/beings, it even knows its structural fundamental nature: omniscient of its fundamental structure/being. And that is where sometimes the God-word (eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite, omniscient) comes in.... But please, don't use any of these insights for separate-self-identity/arisings. That only makes trouble and, you know, bad Karma. Because it is just not true. All of that holds for the True Nature of You, not some not-really-existing (EX-isting = standing out from reality) separate self. But it is not standing out from Reality, it is moving in it, as it, the temporary arising separate-self illusion moving within you and temporary capturing the show for itself. after all of that, you can Awaken to the nature/structure of Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, ... However you want to call it. The last step is: (oh yes, after all of the above when having been stabilized in it for some time (days, months, years), the last big shift comes. And you won't overlook that one, because all of the above is gradual. This one is quantum). You won't overlook this one, you don't need to contemplate it, don't need to "make a decission" on it or on what you hold as true. It is totally fundamentally self-evident. It IS YOU. With that, you can look the devil in the eye and not blink. You will have the peace and bliss of your True Nature, that is "maintenance-free", since it IS You. It is variously called Great Enlightenment (Zen), Basis Enlightenment (Mahamdura Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), Great Liberation, ... Who or what is aware of all of that described above? Of the nondual infinite God-Mind Bubble Universe of manifested Infinite Consciousness floating in Infinity, as Infinity. What is the Reality/Awareness of Yours, that is inseparable of this Reality? What is the Awareness/"Subject" in perceptions perceiving themselves, without ever possibly having any location/center? What is the Reality/Awareness that can be originally "unaware" when no appearances arise in You (for example, in unware "normal" Deep Sleep), but has the potential of sentience as soon as an appearance is manifested? Who is hearing these words right now? What is this Absolute Subject, the Absolute Nothingness, that is so empty as Subject itself that the Absolute Abyss, that even God can't see anything in It? That you can only "experience", or that becomes available when "looking back" from "one level lower" and intuit/understand it as absolute Abyss of the Absolute Subject that you are? That then can be intuited/realized as total Abyss/Nothingness. That can never be any form or arising, because "the eye can't see" itself style? The Unmanifested Consciousness Reality that can be unaware of itself if no appearance is imagined, and yet that manifests as any possible world appearance in itself as itself, totally nondual, as the One Infinite Reality? What is beyond Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, beyond all of that, but at the same time expressing itself through that? What remains if all of that, the Universe-Appearance, is switched off and ends, and before a new creation arises (for example in Deep unaware Sleep, or immediately after death before the show goes on)? What is the unmanifested "side" of Consciousness/Reality/Nothingness, but which is not different at all from the appearances arising within it, as it? That which can not not be there? That which has been called Para-Brahman, Godhead, the Absolute, Absolute Awareness, Infinite Awareness. The Fundamental Real You. That neither exists as appearance, nor does not exist because something still appears? The Water of the River that every Being is at its core. Or much much more precise, after all my clumsy descriptions above have failed: The Clap of the One Hand, or your face before your parents were born. And since You are already It, "I" am just.... ... Selling Water by the River ( : Somebody made a Video Channel on the last step: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g Bassui on the never stopping short with small Enlighenments: "I have seen that the foundation of the universe is Voidness; still what is this something within me which can see and hear?” he desperately asked himself anew. In spite of every effort, he could not rid himself of this obsessive doubt." [Emptiness and Nondual stage, separate self still intact, on a very rudamentary level, just a void separate self watching Infinity. "The lesser masters from whom Bassui had sought guidance had all sanctioned his enlightenment [see above, Awakenings], but Koho, sensing Bassui’s keen, sensitive mind and the strength and purity of his yearning for truth, did not give him his stamp of approval but merely invited him to remain" "At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness [remnants of Empty Witness] will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty [no location, unilocal, perception perceiving themselves]. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning [having become fully empty, even of identity with manifested Consciouss, "God-Mind"] will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present." "With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky [Emptiness, Nonduality]. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being [having become totally empty] will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream." from Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen PS: I didn't create that Video. But it is beautiful.

I mean almost everyone here seems to appreciate hardcore spirituality no matter the cost, of course you could say this is a naive way of thinking or that I should take things seriously, but let's not jump to conclusions here. We've all heard Eckhart Tolle's awakening story and how he had to go through years of excruciating suffering in order to finally awaken right before he kills himself, most of us would agree that that level of suffering is unnecessary awaken (and consequently live in bliss). So I was thinking what if the same applies to current hardcore spiritual paths? That the inevitable suffering that you have to go through in that path, is not really necessary. I think I have heard something similar in one of Matt Kahn's videos, that there is the hellish path and the heavenly path to awakening. Now if you're like me and you appreciate this limited time you have here as a limited human form and want to make the best of it, then you value living your life to the fullest and being the happiest you can be. After all you're gonna die one day and probably totally awaken, so there's no rush. Many of you here have had awakenings and great spiritual progress, each following their own path, if you know of a possibility of an alternative way I would like to hear abt it