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I am likely completely finished with psychedelics, last time I used I got utterly raped. From here my interest is philosophical and intellectual, no more realizations. I had nondual experiences and "no-self", as I understand from Leo on another thread he thinks no-self is also prevalent on Salvia. That is also something I used often. But the DMT triggered nonduality trips were mostly different. But anyway, this is what I am curious on... If you were talking to a 5 year old boy in a way they could understand instead of technical wording and absolute reality type stuff, when he says he would take the universe with him, to a 5 year old with no grasp on nonduality, does that mean their life ends with Leo's? Or does Leo end and other life continue? Being hung up on absolutism would be like "there are no others" but that is not what I am trying to figure he meant.

Sunny was not a 1 in a million random person that misinterpreted teachings. He was a daily poster on the forum. There are only about 30-40 members that post daily. Sunny was in the inner circle of actualized. He had a dreamboard he learned about on actualized. He wrote actualized members names on his dreamboard. He came to the forum for guidance through his first psychedelic experiences. He sought guidance via actualized before he took his life. He trusted members here. It breaks my heart to see so many people try to rapidly distance themselves from him. For a community that often speaks about how there is no separate individuals and we are all inter-connected, it's ironic how fast 100% responsibility is pinned onto a separate individual. No introspection about how the actualized community discusses topics like death, illusions of self, life as a dream etc. Yet when someone takes their life, it gets real fast and a lot of distancing occurs. . . If the self, life and death is illusory, then there was no "Sunny", his suicide is illusory and he didn't leave any family behind. Yet this would not be a tenable position to hold. On the forum, there is a lot of conflation between personal and transpersonal realms and it can cause harm to individuals. Yet some benefit as well. And a lot of good can come out be mass distribution of nondual teachings. The world is filled with intense selfishness, conflict, violence and absurd conspiracy theories. Teachings like Spiral Dynamics, relativity, nonduality etc. can help. Yet I also think there are also some gaps and structural issues. Notice the tone of conversation after Sunny's death. Mostly skepticism if it was real, distancing and finger pointing. In a healthy community, there would be an open discussion. The leader would get together with moderators in-person or via zoom. They would introspect and brainstorm ways we could improve. Then ideas would be brought back to the larger community for feedback. Yet this isn't the way actualized is structured or Leo's skillset. He is much more a top-down leader that makes decisions and he isn't into in person social meetings and discussions. I've been a mod here several years and we've never had a single meeting to discuss forum issues. It's not Leo's jam. In an effort to create more human connection, I'm happy to skype/zoom with anyone regarding nonduality, mysticism, breathwork, psychedelics, personality constructs etc. Just send me a pm and we can set something up. I think person-to-person communication is important. Sorry @Loving Radiance, I hadn't checked my journal for a bit. I think you have a good introspective question. Yes, I think allowing space to question ones own beliefs / epistemic grounds is super important. Yet unfortunately this is rare. And not just rare in spiritual communities, it can also be rare in the sciences. Scientists are often very open-minded and introspective - yet only within their whirlpool of the scientific paradigm. A couple years ago, I went to a scientific presentation on epigenetics. The researcher described data which suggests fish can predict seasonal temperature variations and epigenetically alter the gene expression of their offspring to better prepare them. After the presentation, I spoke with the scientist about the mechanics of his work. I then asked "Couldn't we consider this a form of intelligence?". There was a long pause of contemplation. It was like noone had approached him from this angle before. He responded "I suppose it could be. . . ". We then had a conversation of 'what is intelligence'? I could tell this was outside of his paradigm grounding and it was nice to see him questioning his own framework of what intelligence is. I definitely gave lots of space and I even 'played dumb' at times as if I was processing it for the first time as well. If I came at him knowing-it-all and saying "You are contracted within a scientific paradigm of intelligence with a human bias. You cannot see the higher systemic forms of intelligence" - he would have shut down.

Have you read up on Kashmir Shaivism? I find this the most accessible. It is more obscure than Advaita Vedanta. All nondual philosophies are essentially identical except in how they present things... In Shaivism they will say not that everything is illusion, but that everything is real, just that it is all "that". So in dream logic they'd say all the characters in the dream are real. Nothing is imaginary. Just it is all made of the dreamer inside of the dreamer exactly like a dream. Different semantics same meaning. Certainly it is hard to draw any distinction or line between what is real and what is not. We can agree on what is ULTIMATELY real, that is "the Source", Brahman, God, I, many such terms... How you define the appeaeances to it is down to semantics. I personally freely flip between them as it suits understanding. If explaining it to an outsider I will use full dualistic terminology with metaphors until the very end then rug pull to nonduality. I've explained it to average Joe friends this way.

What you have mentioned here is the element of nonduality which interests me most. The fact of subjective individuation. Leo in the past I saw theorized that this was because in infinity it must include these perspectives. I found that very clever. I wonder if he has changed his theory on that since then? I've theorised on it a lot myself. I came to a conclusion that it might not be our selves locked into this being that exists, but rather an """experience of me""". I used a metaphor of electricity running through two hard drives where the electricity represents awareness. The hard drives when the electricity experiences them, is experienced as separate "selves" because the hard drives are only recording information relating to their own self. Hard drive 1 cannot read hard drive 2'a data, even though awareness (electricity) is experiencing both simultaneously... Then from there switch to dream logic: The experiencer is the dreamer and the hard drives are the characters. But same function. That is my current theory.

All of these are standard nondual truths. If you cannot handle them, then stop doing spirituality and nonduality. I am not going to babysit you. The entire point of all spiritual work is to realize that death is imaginary! "The secret to life is to die before you die -- and find that there is no death." -- Eckhart Tolle "Nothing that was real ever died, only names, forms, and illusions. The end of illusion – that's all death is." -- Eckhart Tolle "When you have died this death, you realize that there is no death, and that there is nothing to fear. Only the ego dies." -- Eckhart Tolle "There is no doubt whatsoever that the universe is the merest illusion." -- Ramana Maharshi "Death is nothing else but going home to God, the bond of love will be unbroken for all eternity." -- Mother Teresa "Death is not extinguishing the light; it is only putting out the lamp because the dawn has come." -- Rabindranath Tagore "Death is a taboo in most societies in the world. But what if we’ve got it completely wrong? What if death was not the catastrophe that it is made out to be but an essential aspect of life, rife with spiritual possibilities for transcendence?" -- Sadhguru "The only reason why people have such a fear of death is they know nothing beyond the body." -- Sadhguru "Death is a cosmic joke. If you get the joke, falling on the other side will be wonderful." -- Sadhguru "Death is a fiction of the unaware. There is only life, life, and life alone, moving from one dimension to another." -- Sadhguru - - - - - - So please, spare me your crocodile tears about my teachings. My teaching are perfectly consistent with 2000 years of mystical and nondual tradition.

This is false. Many people have temporary and partial awakenings which come and are lost. In fact, this is the most common type of awakening. The temporariness of an awakening has absolutely no relation to its truth value. It is true and genuine even if it lasts 1 second. That's some no-true-Scotsman position. But if 40 years of professional Vipassana meditation haven't completely dissolved the self, then what hope do these folks have here? You are treating this issue too flippantly. I know many people who have fully realized no-self. But they have not realized God or Infinity or Love. Because those are higher and more challenging realizations. No-self is one of the easiest realizations. I could name names to you of serious people who I know for sure have not realized God, Infinity, or Love. And that is after years and decades of serious practice. So this issue is not merely one of argument for argument's sake. There is something profound which people are missing and refuse to acknowledge they are missing. You could be missing it too and not even know it. The bottom line is that dissolving the self is not the same thing as God-realization. But, dissolving the self is important, so I don't ague with that. It's just not sufficient. No-self is not Infinite Consciousness, and no amount of logic you use will change that. It does not matter if your no-self is temporary or permanent, it is still not God-realization nor Infinite Consciousness. Also, God-realization and Infinite Consciousness has nothing to do with full dissolving the ego-self. It may dissolve or it may not and it does not matter from the perspective of Truth/Consciousness. It only matters from the relative human perspective. Which is important, but it is not all-important. I agree that permanently dropping the self is not the same as a peak experience of consciousness. I have never said otherwise. And I agree that permanently dropping the self is an important part of this work. But it is not the end-all-be-all and there are much bigger things beyond. This is false. You have always been God, so that's a moot point, but you are not fully conscious of what God is even if you drop the self. Realizing God is a distinct realization from no-self regardless of its permanence. Telling people that they will realize God simply by dropping the self is not correct and it will prevent people from God-realization. This is the only reason I am here arguing with you. It is deeply misleading and I don't want this idea fed to my audience. You fundamentally misunderstand my communication about God-realization. You are taking me to be saying something about form. I am not. That is not what God-realization is about. And anyway, form and formlessness are identical, so to even make such a distinction and minimize form is already a subtle duality you're creating. I don't know where some of you guys got this idea that I am against no-self. No-self is a basic, easily insight which I have had many times and I teach no-self. I have always taught it. But then I went on to realize much greater things which make no-self look like child's play. It is not that Frank is pro no-self while Leo is anti-no-self. Leo fully understands no-self but is telling you there is something way deeper which is being missed by even very serious practitioners of nonduality. But you guys are dismissing this. Well, I can't force you to listen. Somebody someday will get it. But not with this kind of closedminded and dismissive attitude. I hate doing these nondual debates but what you are saying here goes against something very fundamental that I have committed to teaching. And so I feel obliged to make these corrections. It is like you walked into a yoga ashram and started teaching Zen. Well, what do you expect will happen? If you want to teach your version of nonduality, by all means teach it to your audience, Frank. I have never interfered with whatever it is you teach to your audience. And I have no quarrel with you. But also, please respect that I have certain things that I teach and I don't like being drawn into these clickbait debates. I have better things to do than argue about the existence of God and Love. If you disagree with me about God and Love, my teachings and this forum is not for you. It is not healthy or proper to follow a teacher who you fundamentally disagree with.

EVERYTHING IS FUNNY Example of how my brain squirts acidy insights, and how i contemplate the insights afterwards: I was peeing, and just after i flushed the toilet It just hit me that if one were to be conscious enough, one would see that everything is infinitely funny. Every seemingly separate "thing" has this infinite humor baked into it, because it's not actually what it appears to be, but it is God pretending to be that thing . So because God Consciousness has all possible qualities infinitely available at any given moment, EVERYTHING that Consciousness seemingly creates, necessarily has within them ALL possible relative qualities. A cat is not a cat, it is God. The cat has all the infinite attributes of God, It's just that God makes it so that most of those qualities are hidden from view, so that the cat part of it is revealed. Words seemingly come through the body-mind-spirit-whatever complex, so they create duality (AND nonduality, btw). So everything words can say is both true and untrue - this previous statement is both true and untrue - and THIS previous statement is both true and untrue etc. etc. etc. It is equally true AND untrue that everything is infinitely funny, or scary, or infinitely ugly, or beautiful, or more weird stuff, like infinitely red, blue, or any other color, or even things like male, female, gay, or a teapot, or a turtle, or any other thing in existence, because these words aren't actually words, they are God/Consciousnes/Love/Truth/i, which again, has super-imposed over itself, over an infinite amount of dimensions an infinite number of infinities and attributes. And i mean that: infinity has an entire infinite dimension of itself that is ENTIRELY "BLUE"! AND ONE THAT IS ENTIRELY "GAY"! AND EVERY.SINGLE.THING. that you could possibly think of, and MUCH, MUCH MORE! Why? Because infinity is infinite and it can do whatever the fuck it wants Except being infinity. That one infinity cannot escape. OOPS! EXCEPT IT CAN! - can you see how everything is both true and untrue at the same time? Even this - "true AND untrue" thing is both true and untrue. Because all dualities must collapse <--- even this is true and untrue <------ and even this is true and untrue!!! Can you see that? Right now i perceive these insights that pop up to be small glimpses into the Psychedelic God Consciousness that Leo talks about. And i can see why psychedelics are kinda mandatory if you want to explore the ful size of infinity. Because while sober these small glimpses, although quite intense at times, are no match for the ego's capacity to reconfigure itself. Of course detoxing heavy metals and having great health an having a very good concentration all help a bit, but i don't think that at this point in human evolution we should expect to be able to just soar off into God Consciousness at will LOL. I think we will definitely not be "human" anymore at that point. -So one of the things that i got the most value out of, and what started these insights to randomly pop up, is simply contemplating infinity - what does infinity imply? Things like Everything is Everything - what does that mean? Of course, that means that Absolutely there is only One thing, aka Love - the Essence of God/Consciousness But Relatively this means all sorts of funny stuff And this was an example of how random relative points of view that this body has aquired, that weren't consciously connected to infinity, get connected and add to the accumulation of Love that this body is capable of recieving, which then translates into the way it speaks and thinks and behaves, etc.

Not really... God-Realization is more complicated. Nonduality is simple: all there is, is all there is. There's no one and nothing happening. Nothing is everything. This empty appearance is neither real nor unreal. Relative is absolute. Of course by nonduality I do not mean in any way shape or form Neo Advaita, which is not ultimate nonduality.

I hear you, but my question is more about what Leo says in his latest video: ie that God Realization is something deeper than nonduality. I'm not doubting the oneness of reality. I'm more curious as to why he said God realization is something beyond or deeper than nonduality/oneness.

I've never cared about the path, this is merely intellectual to me. It's a philosophy I adopted after psychedelic use and then subsequent logical consideration. I do genuinely and truly believe it is most logically accurate, and have had mystical experiences, but my interest ends at understanding. I think others go the other way round... I became nondual because I had experience which pointed to it and I became curious. I had no choice but to believe what I do... Others instead look for a "path" to improve their lives or w.e. and believe the things in the same way someone may believe a religion... I did not even know what nonduality was until I searched "monist religions" after a DMT trip. Connor is intensely mentally ill. He claims to have been taken hostage by the government. Not even one claim he ever makes is trustworthy, and if he did do some wack shit, then oh well we all know he is literally crazy. Someone mentally balanced like Leo does not go on camera shoving his hand in wasp nests. That is madman stuff.

It is insane to be 100% certain in the idea, since it is a theory. I happen to think it's correct and I absolutely do not believe in objective morals or meaning. I am content with subjective ones. But I wouldn't kill myself for the main reason that this is literally a theory. It is not proven and it actually never COULD be for various reasons. I also wouldn't jump to my death because of many other things... But first and foremost it is clearly just a theory. A belief. If you have to sort of pull your punches then you are not really communicating what you think and might as well say nothing at all. Talk would have to be confined to secret covens or something where a few gather. I think in nonduality people make too big of a deal about there being no such things as X or Y or Z. There is objective reality and subjective reality. Leo replied to me recently describing the subjective feeling on a deep trip. That subjective feeling is different from what he would say is the objective truth. So you can see there is two sides of the coin. There is the subjective reality of being "myself" and the objective one of "being God". This is why I like Kashmir Shaivism. Identical idea but presents subjective things as real. Or Dzogchen.

@Wilhelm44 Nonduality means not two. The term points without defining. When comparing that which already seems to be defined, it is already missed there are, not two. There is not someone who knows this, nor someone to fully realize nonduality. ‘People self realized’, would be two. This has not only been covered extensively on this forum, it is literally the only apparent content of it.

Wtf. Sad to hear... There is a strange logic which could take hold if a person 100% believes in this idea. Sort of like how you might expect a Christian to kill themselves because they believe a paradise infinitely better than this awaits. Some followers of Islam in fact DO do that. The thing is that we cannot know definitively that we are right. I can prove nonduality is more logical than materialism, but not that it is right. There is also no reason to die: In nonduality it is an inescapable infinite existence. So dying would do nothing at all. A person cannot experience a conscious death as that would require their self to still exist and be around. Consciousness may be infinite and eternal but a person will not have an "experience" of death. The self will only experience the final moment of its life. It ought to be made clear to prevent anything more like this. All we all have is a belief, at the end of the day.

Because I like things exactly as they are. This is an intellectual pursuit for me. For a period of time I was going into this stuff a lot, I used DMT very often as well as acid. There was one period where I felt immense derealization. Another where I had something like an existential crisis (on the nonduality subreddit, there is a flair specifically for this type of crisis because it is common to face during such pursuits). Another time (several occasions actually) I recall thinking that if this is what reality truly is I don't WANT to know... It was like I would be walking along the streets and feel at one with walls and all sorts. I did not feel right. My loved ones became meaningless, my memories, it was not pleasant. The point is when the ego is dead these things won't matter, but you could say the same about being literally dead yet nobody is just hanging themselves or w.e. even though once dead they also "won't care". There is no question a subjective experience of "being human" exists presently. And I like mine exactly and precisely as it is. I have zero desire to change it.

Sure, but have you experienced God-realization? Even though there's no you, there's still more, even if there's no one left to do it. In a sense, you could say it's just getting into the weeds, but what beautiful weeds they are. It's not really contradicting the fact of nonduality. Unconditional Love can't help but manifest as formless infinite God. Yeah no one is doing it, but it's all there is.

He usually makes good videos on science topics, but now he uploaded this: At about 40 mins in he talks about Leo (and also features Deepak Chopra and other ppl I don't know as well in his video). The first part about Deepak Chopra and some guy named "Spirit Science" on YT i actually found to be quite funny, but then as he goes on he tries to depict Leo as a cult leader and sociopath who's manipulating his viewers i. a. to kill themselves. Basically he takes parts of random actualized.org videos completely out of context in order to establish the narrative of a cult leader. You can clearly see that he has no clue about what Leo is talking about and that he's just projecting his own assumptions/concepts onto him. For example he says stuff like "quantum mechanics is the well he draws his lies from" which makes absolutely no sense or that Leo tries to convey to the viewers that his perspective is the absolute truth while other peoples perspectives are flawed (he calls it gaslighting while not even understanding what is meant by absolute truth). He also basically says that Leo is contradicting himself by saying he is god and that you are god too or by being omniscient and yet being surprised by his doorbell ringing in one of the live awakening vids. W/e, watch the part for yourself. I guess that's how materialists interprete this stuff and nonduality. Im actually a bit spooked b/c prof. Dave usually explains stuff like really good and he also does a great job at roasting flatearthers, but depicting actualized.org as a cult and so massively misinterpreting this stuff is pretty ooga booga and probably even dangerous (and shows that he doesn't even have a clue what he's talking about or that he's very closed-minded at the very least).

What arises dependent upon conditions, does not arise. What is, is what arises and what does not arise. No separation. None whatsoever. The freedom of nonduality: what happens, does not happen. What apparently happens (seems to happen), doesn't really (actually) happen. I am you = what appears is what does not appear.

(D'oh, some of the links didn't work . I can't edit the original post, so I'm reposting the list. Good times !!!) Actualized.org Blog Videos Society & Politics [] Inside The Mind Of Trump [] Why Bernie Sanders Lost [] My Political Awakening [] The Big Picture Of Global Politics [] Why The Media Is Corrupt [] Rethinking Human History [] Conscious Capitalism BS [] Deconstructing Property Rights [] Life Lessons From "Life Below Zero" Epistemology [] Why Are My Videos So Long? [] Metaphysics vs Epistemology [] Understanding Better Than Academics [] Changing Perspectives Destroys Reality [] Why Debates Don't Work [] All Understanding Is Metaphoric [] All Understanding Is Metaphoric - Part 2 [] Skepticism & Nonduality [] How To Test For Self-Bias [] Learning From Partially False Perspectives [] My Critique Of Zizek's Critique Of Buddhism [] Sherlock Holmes' Brain [] Sense Organs Are Imaginary Enlightenment [] Absolute Infinity Demo [] Explaining God For Dummies [] Total Omniscience Awakening [] Infinite Love Awakening [] Ego-Collapse Awakening [] Tapping Into Collective Consciousness [] Miracle Awakening [] DPT: The Other God Molecule [] What It's Like To Smoke Salvia Divinorum Life Purpose [] Why Get Rich Quick Schemes Don't Work [] How I Started My First Business [] Requisite Variety & Creative Laziness [] Guerilla Business Advice Health [] Don't Half-Ass Yoga [] Sitting Posture For Yoga & Meditation Leo’s Health & Life [] Do I Doubt Myself? [] My Health Situation [] Back From 2 Month Break, Updates [] 14 Day Water Fast [] Water Fast Ends, Carnivore Diet Begins [] Things I’ve Been Wrong About [] Fat Leo (I had to add this because it’s adorable) Retreats [] Solo Retreat Videos & Insights [] Hawaii Retreat Intro [] Hawaii Solo Retreat Feb 2018 Videos [] Hawaii Late Night Insights [] Mindfucked In Hawaii [] May 2018 Solo Retreat - Part 1 [] May 2018 Solo Retreat - Part 2 [] May 2018 Solo Retreat - Part 3

@Gianna You are doing good, but you're still very far away from a holistic, omniscient God-realization. I will soon have a video explaining the difference between nonduality/awareness vs God-realization. Connecting the dots is precisely what's missing.

@4201 Want nonduality instead. Tame the ox. Sessions aren’t necessary, but to compare, just like anything else, you have to have the direct expereince to be able to compare the direct experience.

I think it's good because it can spread valuable information in the mainstream and can make him more approachable. I think what Leo talks about is more important than the fact that he's talking. Talking about how we are all one, we are god, and how we should use psychedelics to realize that imo isn't a good move from an optics point because the vast majority of people aren't aware of nonduality being a thing much less have a basic understanding of it. Unless you got exposed to those topics through philosophy, religious studies or something, it isn't unlikely that people will jump to the conclusion of "great another guy on drugs claiming he's god, what's new." Like if you leave enlightenment, psychedelics, and talking about god off the table, I think Leo becoming more mainstream can be beneficial.

@NahmPeople who find you probably have a certain background? Inquired a lot into nonduality?

Sure But don't forget, murder can also be a stepping stone to Infinite Love. Everything is a stepping stone in its own way. It's not about comparing me to anyone. It's about guiding you to the deepest consciousness possible. You will not reach the deepest consciousness using their weak sauce. I'm very serious about this. I don't give a rats ass about being better than those people. What I care about is you getting stuck at some nothingness or no-self state. Nonduality is not full God-realization. All paths do not lead to the same place. There exists a place of Infinite Consciousness. If you dare, I will meet you there.

There is a pinned thread called "Nonduality wars not allowed here" and then Leo himself constantly bashing other Non-dual teachers whos style is different from his or maybe Ken Wilbers who is also kind of a spiritual elitist in many ways. Just because someone has high IQ and talks about complex models does not mean they are any more awake than a teacher who does not do so.

@machiavelli It doesn't ultimately matter to God, since God is murder, love, rape, community service, aid, strife, peace, and everything else. Ultimately nothing matters. How could it? Who, outside of all there is, could it possibly matter to? This of course means that even "things mattering" doesn't matter / is not denied. There is just ultimate liberation. Nonduality cares not, but also judges not.