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@at_anchor Speaking as someone whose parents made him weak and defenceless against bullies Sitting at your laptop discussing with online strangers and philosophizing about suicide is not going to help you. You're in a situation where you're not happy. Are you physically trapped? Behind bars? No. So stop letting this situation defeat you and take some action. You have legs. Walk away. You have a couple hundred dollars, or the ability to borrow them, so use that. Go volunteer at a farm somewhere far away, the physical work, nature and change of environment will do you good. https://wwoof.net/ Yes, you're going to disappoint your parents. Fuck them. When death starts to look attractive, you need to be aggressively selfish for a while and not care who disapproves. Just get away, what do you have to lose? You don't need anyone's permission, and don't let anyone tell you that you're ruining "your future" forever. Break free. It will be the best year of your life, and you'll be much clearer about what you want after that.

I've been feeling this way for the past few days as well. I'm trying to stave it off with observing my feelings, with writing things I am grateful for - but the truth is, I was on a path for a while and I felt good about it, but now I am riddled with doubt, with a lack of faith in myself, and I absolutely hate myself, my circumstances, and my body. I hate that I am sick, that I've lost so much, and I hate that I can't bounce back and make something out of it like so many other people are able to do. They've been through worse and are so brave and admirable and I'm... not. I'm just me. Some silly, pointless woman. What am I here for? Why do I exist? I can't even be a decent enough person to see beyond my own problems, either. Like, the world is suffering and I get that, but I'm so "stuck" in myself and my own issues, and I feel very guilty for this. I feel like a burden. I feel like any expression of these emotions is just some way to complain. I don't see an end in sight. I don't want to end up being one of those people who spend their whole day starving for something that they can't fill within themselves. I just want... to feel like I do when I am sleeping, or dreaming, where everything is spread out and it's so pure and pristine and in those moments I can really see what I am made of. And I think... this is real. This is it. If I could just stay here. But then I wake up, and I am back with all of you mutually miserable, sick people, just trying to make it through the day - and I wonder why life is so beautiful and so horrible at the same time. I am inundated with guilt for my existence. I don't think I deserve to be here. And yet, I'm too cowardly to just off myself. Maybe there is that glimmer of hope that things will get better, but I know myself too well at this point. It all hinges on this over-attachment to the spiritual world, and once I lose touch with it, like I have for the past few days, I feel lost and distraught. Like blinded and cut off from my food source almost. I think the pros of suicide would be that you would get a chance to heal, to see what you should have been doing in life and your purpose, which isn't so easy to understand - but the downside would be that you would know you failed in that purpose. And even though you'll be put together for a time, you still need to come back to finish what you started. If I had to come back into this world, like this, and I had even less than I do now to make something out of this life that I am responsible for, I might get caught in a cycle of killing myself, over and over. When I read these threads, I feel a strong sense of understanding towards people who have these feelings. It is really hard to get out of the cycle of wanting to harm yourself. Sometimes I will sit with these feelings for months, just to have a break for a time, only for them to come up again in some form completely unexpected.

I "confirmed in my direct experience" that the arcangel Gabriel appeared from the sky and told me my mission in life is to start a suicide cult... Connor Murphy "confirmed in his direct experience" that he is in fact a space alien. The judges at the Salem witch trials "confirmed in their direct experience" that everyone they sentenced to be burnt at the stake was a witch. 'Cause they got a funny feeling in their gut bro. My throat chakra is tense right now. I believe this means you are practicing witchcraft. Confirmed by direct experience bro. Off to the dunking pools with you! Thou ist a witch!

When you say you remained dead for 18 months, what was your body doing at that time? I spent most of the time laying in bed in a dark hotel/motel room, ordering vodka, cigarettes and food. I drank a lot of alcohol (about a bottle of vodka on average) and smoked about a pack of the strongest cigarettes I could find without a filter almost every day during these 18 months. Was Vladimir still talking, breathing, going to work whilst feeling dead inside? I could still breath, talk, think and move around. I lost all desire to do anything. All I wanted to do is to distract myself from the truth of what I have become. I did everything I could to numb what I was feeling and distract myself from a never-ending stream of thoughts and visions that tormented me. Was his body just laying in bed the whole time, like a depression? Yes, I was in bed most of the time, it was like a depression but much worse, I was tormented, I almost did not sleep at all during the 18 months, and when I did, I had terrifying visions. I would also have these visions while I was not sleeping with my eyes open, especially during the night. I had thoughts of suicide many times during this time, what stopped me was knowing that hurting my physical body would not alleviate my suffering. Would you say it was what people mean by a dark night of the soul? This was worse than any dark night of the soul anybody has ever experienced. I went through the deepest depths of Hell. I had gone through a very difficult dark night of the soul prior to this experience. That doesn't even come close to the depths of suffering I have experienced while being dead for 18 months. What is it like to be dead in a body? I felt evil, I became the devil. I saw visions of pure evil with my eyes opened and closed. I felt the root source of depression, loneliness, abandonment, guilt, insanity, ugliness, illness, bizarreness, shame, fear, failure, separation, chaos, evil, hatred, self hatred and all darkness. I felt like the entire Universe turned against me. I became the worst of the worst. I hated myself, everybody and the entire world. I could not stand being around other people, I avoided sun light as much as I could. I could not rest at all, time went by very slowly. It was like waiting on a death row in a prison of my own mind, thinking that the ultimate punishment of eternal suffering is inevitable. I felt like I had become the craziest and most evil person in the world. I felt like I had become separated from the entire world. I did not feel myself, I did not feel alive, I felt complete disconnection and separation from my body, myself and the entire world. What was it like for your wife, did she worry, could you explain, did she have to care for you? Yes she worried very much and tried to do everything she could to help me. She asked me if there is anything she can do to help me, I told her - no. She couldn't understand what was happening to me, nobody could understand what was happening to me.

I'm 100% sure it ends the suffering for this particular body / mind / ego. Couldn't tell you if it impacts future/past lives, your overall karma, or versions of yourself in alternate universes, if any of those things exist. You should probably Pascal's Wager it and assume that suicide will have bad intended effects on an afterlife or future lives though. Quantum immortality is probably one of the biggest dissuading factors for me. If the many-worlds interpretation of quantum theory is correct, then there will always be at least one timeline where you fail every suicide attempt you make, probably causing yourself even more pain and hardship in the process with each failed attempt.

I'd say it's temporary relief from suffering. Eventually, you'll have to deal with what you've tried to get rid of, for suicide does not lead to the desired resolution; in fact, it causes even more suffering which will need to be resolved. Everything is seeking resolution. People do unwise things, thinking that their actions will bring about positive results, only to realize that there is no upside, only downside. I'd say committing suicide is one of those actions.

Of course there are. Humans aren't irrational. Why would anyone commit suicide if there was literally no upside? If they're willing to do something so extreme, obviously there must be some advantage for some people. Can you think of any other activity that humans participate in, with zero pros? No. Nobody's going to put their hand on a hot stove when they have nothing to gain. Even when people self-harm, harming themselves is providing some pro for them. To cope with emotional pain or frustration, to regain control over something. The biggest pro of suicide is the end of suffering. It's a 100% guaranteed way to make any kind of pain stop. You can certainly argue that the cost of ending the suffering isn't worth it. But it's still a pro for people in the moment while they're suffering. The only situation in which I could ever see myself considering suicide as an option, is if I was dealing with excruciating physical pain or mental illness that didn't seem to have any other way of being relieved or a chance of ending in the future. I don't think anyone should ever commit suicide before exhausting all possible options. Even then I wouldn't recommend it. But to say that there's zero pros to suicide is disingenuous, it's like saying that you can't put yourself in a situation where you'd suffer so much that you'd actively want to die instead of continue.

Most people who are extraordinary grew up in difficult circumstances with a lot of pressure from their environments. Do you guys think that is the only way to be extraordinary? I think solving life problems successfully creates this inner diamond We all know that rich kids that got no pressure from their environment and got spoiled, have fucked up mindsets. In fact their parents spoil the future of the kids by removing all their life problems and protecting their children from real life circumstances. I always wondered if there is salvation for lazy rich kids who never had problems in their life in their youth and then be expected to be grown adults instead of grown ass children. Some rich kids (who become adults) fuck it up so hard that they go broke and end up in difficult life circumstances and because the lack of a powerful mindset and vision they either make or break in life. Most of the time they can’t handle life and end up as a looser or they commit suicide. I think there is a fair share of people who commit suicide are people who get spoiled or protected too much. You don’t need super rich parents to be spoiled. They don’t develop this inner diamond mindset and vision (that is crafted through overcoming life problems). They fail at becoming an adult and life becomes too hard for them to cope with reality. While people who had a hard knock life don’t have time to think about suicide; they ****’in busy surviving in life. In a sense it is better to have dysfunctional poor parents than have dysfunctional rich parents. Dysfunctional rich parents don’t expose their children to life problems and thus the children don’t have the chance to grow from them. In a sense they become grown ass children due to lack of mental and emotional development. I can clearly recognize this trait in people. My parents weren’t rich but I can recognize it somewhat in myself too. The question really is how do you unspoil yourself when you are spoiled? I knew some older female in her 50’ies and she came from a rich family. She acted like she was 12. I had deep conversations with her and I felt bad for her how her parents spoiled her future for her by spoiling her. She had problems in her personal and professional sphere. All the therapy in the world couldn’t help her. Getting something while you don’t deserve it is really the kiss of death.

From the material perspective it's letting go, if they could see it as holding on they wouldn't be in that position. I agree it's an expression of holding on; clinging to beliefs obviously. But if you're contemplating suicide I think it's because of pain, trying to end the pain, trying to let go of it.

Suicide has nothing to do with letting go; in fact, it's an expression of holding on.

There's not a pro to committing suicide but there is a pro to suicide; it's the letting go, if you're willing to end it that means you're willing to try something different in life and that's the secret to life, don't kill yourself or o.d. but try the life you want, not the one your parents want for you, the one you truly want, leave all those toxic people behind and start off on your new life somewhere else. Ego suicide There's always something to love by the way. And always a way to receive love anytime

No. There are zero pros to suicide: "There’s always, always a reason to stay alive, even when you can’t see it or believe in it." - J.K. Rowling Rowling also believed that her life would never change, but it did change tremendously. I'm not saying that you'll be rich and famous, but I do think that ten, twenty, thirty years from now you will be happy that you didn't commit suicide. But you do have to take small actions, baby steps. I want to share this thread with you:

I am nearly certain it qould be bad for you. But recently a dude I spoke to before hung himself, and I think it was the right decision. His life was truly without any possible redemption. Way worse off than the homeless, or anyone I've seen post in forums. Suicide is shit except in that level of situation or if you're terminally ill.

@at_anchor Hiya, I felt moved reading your post. It sounds to me like you may have experienced abuse by people with personality disorders related to sociopathy and malignant narcissists. I can only imagine the depth of the effect that has had on you. I relate to what I see to be your experiences of humiliation and dehumanisation that came with those experiences. To my understanding, I have experienced abuse at the hands of multiple malignant narcissists myself. However, I will note that the extent or magnitude of how my experiences relate to yours I do not know. I personally do not, when acting consciously, judge suicide. And, to my mind, everyone who chooses the route of suicide has some reason, based on fulfilling some need of there's. Albeit, it may be that their perception of reality was very skewed such that that was the way they thought they could best meet that need. That said, I don't recommend you seriously consider suicide as an option for now. The way I think about it is that you have all of eternity to be dead. So why not stick around and see how it turns out. Experiment with different ways of approaching life and see how it works out. To my understanding, there are numerous people in the world today and throughout history who have dedicated their careers to trying to help people who find themselves in the type of situation you are in today. I don't think many people will be able to really comprehend the abuse that it sounds like has occurred to you. However, many of these mentioned people will comprehend. They will understand. And, some of them will be able to help you transform your life. I would recommend that you seek these people out. If you would like, I can recommend some mentors that I think could be of value to you.

Nurture probably also plays some role. I think it might also be beneficial, in certain circumstances, to have experienced extreme suffering from a very young age (i.e. 5 years old), and for this to have extended all the way through the formative years (up to young adulthood) with absolutely no one to turn to. If you’ve spent decades deeply contemplating “why?” and moreover “why me?”, and the abuse was severe enough to have made suicidal ideation a mainstay of your existence, then the only places you can finally arrive at are: (1) Lifelong depression or other mental illness; (2) Suicide; (3) Total forgiveness and deep understanding. It seems likely that the massive neurological rewiring involved in reaching (3) above could be a significant advantage. This may be a pretty rare set up too though.

What if I can't remove myself from the situation, can't change it ,and can't accept it ? What then ? Hit my head into the wall? Praying to an imaginary God who doesn't give a fuck? Or suicide myself? You know, some times it gets REALLY fucking dark that nothing makes sense anymore. There are people who suffer unimaginable amounts of suffering in this world.

If you commit suicide, you won't know what you were meant to do here, unless that was what you were meant to do. I suppose suicide, for some folks, was always meant to be. Trustworthy sources tell me that you go to a place to heal, where you are loved and put back together again. Either by God, or your soul family. You get a period of rest to think on what you have done, and are shown the error of your ways and how things would have been different if you had stayed. Maybe people who come back from NDE's due to suicide are shown that they have an easy solution to the problem that is being covered up by pain. From my understanding, the point of life is to grow the soul and so you will at some point have to come back here to learn the lesson you skipped, but I don't believe that there is some all punishing karmic danger to suicide. I think it is as loving as can be, for those who are weak and hurt, that the afterlife does it's best to tend to you. Just like here, when you reach out to people, their instinct is to help you through it, not to harm you for feeling painful emotions due to circumstance. You will have to finish those lessons, though. I hope you don't. Whenever I get close to suicide, entities come to me to try and change the circumstances for me via lessons/altering the course of my life and so forth. Just have to sit it out. We are all on this crazy ride together.

Yes karma, consequences, and other negative things will serve as useful reasons to push you away from suicide. However you will need to also stoke a vision for the future and something to move towards. Accept that you do not know the future, that's your ticket to true imagination. You even admitted it yourself with what you talked about in your last few paragraphs

@Roy Psychiatrists in Netherlands, Belgium and elsewhere actually do validate suicide and assist. But I don't know if that is going too far or if that is the next step in evolution of society. I guess the only pro is that existance, fear and all the bad stuff go away. But I'm just assuming that. Then again, why wouldn't my time come to an end when I am forced to decide that it should come to an end? Why bad Karma? Even if there is bad Karma, that just means that one day I will just learn my lesson, although not in this life. Okay, how do I challenge myself that I could be wrong? Maybe there is an actual God figure in the shape of a man or devil that will actually punish me. So that is one reason not to. Maybe Karma will create the same people and experiences in my life, even though I do not deserve it cause I know I wasn't Hitler or something in my previous life. So yeah, other than that, I don't see anything good. Reality won't be affected much by it. Many will celebrate my death, a few might be sad, some might be affected negatively by it and could end up being the new targets, although they already are weak and they cab easily be exploited, destroyed and demonized later on anyway. So yeah, the only thing really is that things could change and go in a better direction. Well, I have a hard time accepting that. It seems very unlikely. Maybe if I survive another 20-30 years of this shit. But then I will be so old and in the same spot as I am now again or I will be even worse off and then I might not get another chance to commit suicide for God's sake! Yeah, I might see the world change for the better, see self-driving cars, electric cars, borders opening, peace spreading, corruption maybe gone, who knows what else the future holds for the world. But I am not from that world and I'm never gonna belong in it. It will be like an old Ethiopian man going to New York. He simply would not be able to adopt, fit in or learn the language or survive.

I am not going to validate any ideas of suicide being good. Challenge yourself to accept the possibility you could be wrong. It could be the best decision you've ever made.

@puporing What happens is that bullies get me outside this house. @Roy That is not a pro of suicide. I think that things cannot change and go in a better direction.

You can get out of the family. If you're thinking of suicide you might as well put all your effort in getting out and see what happens.

If you had a bad upbringig and a family that didn't love you, that abused you and nade you weak an pray to rich and popular bullies. When you grow up the same shit continues, but now you are utterly weak when you know the causes of the past problems and you know you should have moved out this family. But you did not. So now come new so to say rich and popular bullies and your family is still against you. You get put down, stripped out of your dignity, ostracized and demonized as well as physically damaged. Very damaged. You start living in fear and have nothing you love. Hope is always illusory and you basically cannot be who you are, authentic and happy. Life is nothing. It has no meaning and all my potential is never gonna be realized anyway. So why should I live? I'm like an animal in a cage with abusive owners and cannot get away. I also feel small. Yeah, my I'm a taller man, but my mind, life, bank account, 6 inch penis, status, all this is too small. I'm not gonna commit suicide but I have to ask what the pros are, cause although I don't believe in the Church, sometimes I do fear Karma and even Jesus, but can't believe in that for sure. But sometimes you just gotta go. Is there anything positive that could be said of suicide?

I did 2gs Phenibut everyday for 6 months and when I quit, the next month was torturous. The withdrawal killed my imagination completely, gave me extreme anxiety, I didn’t sleep at all for 5 days straight, made me constantly think about every single regret I have and every mistake I’ve made,I couldn’t stop thinking about suicide and it seemed inevitable that I would do it. I lost 15 pounds in a month (and I was already small!) because I couldn’t eat and would vomit everything I ate because I had such extreme anxiety. After the withdrawal I felt fucking reborn and new appreciation for my life because that constant anxiety wasn’t there anymore. DO NOT TAKE PHENIBUT DAILY! Even taking it for once a week I don’t sleep for 5 days straight afterwards. It feels fucking amazing but taking it everyday will fuck you HARD!!!

The more I cry, the more I breakdown, nothing is ever going to actually work. I will end up feeling wasted, drained and another week of depression will set in. I've been preyed on horribly to the point that I don't trust humanity anymore. I'm wary of the online world. I trusted people and they betrayed me in the most unthinkable ways. I was on the verge of suicide and I was extremely lonely. Angry, sad and depressed. Those were my emotions. I felt like a whore who was prostituting herself day after day so that a Pimp would allow me to live. I sometimes just don't want this existence. Whatever emotional support I ever got, it always came at a huge price. It's unbelievable what I was put through