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Okey i think i see where that train of thought came from now. But i never heard anyone calling nirodha a temporary, passing thing. Calling it the absolute, unborn, uncreated, eternal, boundless makes much more sense imo. And the original point i was trying to make was triggered by Leo saying that nirodha and nothingness is just an act of god's imagination and how it doesn't make much sense to me. Because nothingness in my view is the only thing that cannot be imagined or created or dreamed up. Rather i think it would be more accurate to say nirodha is the total opposite of that. It's the end of all imagination, end of all creation, end of all dreams etc.

@Leo GuraFirst of all, i have not posted something in a long while because I needed to clear my head. Nothing worked anymore. I was just thinking and spinning instead of focusing on being. So when sat down this afternoon I didn't have any intent of finding or really doing anything. There was just plain curiosity inside of me. And...I cant really describe it here. Of course not. There was nothing! But as soon as I "touched" on it if you will, emptiness was "gone". It is strange I can't explain it. It must sound like I'm talking around some BS. When it was gone there was really nothing gone...

Well, ......... yes! When resting IN that Nothingness/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Infinite Reality, the bliss/love starts to flow. So that bliss/love lives in the house of ones True Being. It is the fragrence of love/bliss that one searches in all(!) experiences, after the separate self contraction/ego has strangled this flow of love/bliss. It is the bliss/love of a home that one never really forgot, and actually never really left. Only apparently... Technically, the bliss/love belongs to the Manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness, the necklace side of the gold. But since it flows as soon as the gold begins to reveal itself, it is just divine in its force (see one of my last post for Awe). It kills "separate you" softly or not so softly... And when the Nondual Realization opens up..... the Divine opens its flood-gates and delivers any love/bliss one ever sought and had, and infinitely more... It is like finding a million dollar in your pocket, and keep pulling out the money in disbelief, always thinking that has to be fake as everything that came before. I think that metaphor is from Adyashanti. Afterwards, one never mourns the loss of the separate self-illusion. One has lost nothing more than an Illusion, and gained the whole Kosmos. Infinite Freedom, since which/what could constrain ones freedom? Infinite Love, since one knows its source, and there is no other, never could be. One without a second. And if it is in ones nature, go fishing, grow beautiful flowers in your garden, raise a family, celebrate life.... And if one is inclined to do so, go develop new technologies, explore new fields, leave your mark, go chasing an Alien or two - if one is true Pioneer, discover Alien Dimensions and the wonderfully beautiful creation and mainting mechanism of this Universe/Dimension/Buddhafield and others... But this time from the fullness of ones True Being, with overflowing bliss and love, and not for getting the love/bliss from the gig/experience, but for expressing the love/bliss that already always lives in ones True Home, right here and right now... And maybe don't value the n+1 Alien anything higher than the bliss/love of ones essence... You know, "others" might get inspired to go chasing their own tail too.... Selling Water by the River

We are god and we’ve been for eternity living as god in the vast nothingness who decided to experience this dream called life and have some fun. So why are you trying to transcend it?

Nirodha Samapatti/Cessation/Nirvikalpa/Deep Sleep - Causal States: Absolute Reality or passing states. Both! Please allow me some musings on that topic... The Nothingness/Infinite Reality in which the show happens right here right now is the same Nothingness that is also the Reality of Nirodha Samapatti. And all other (causal) states, like cessation and so on. Same goes for example of Infinity-"Whiteouts" of 5-MeO experiences and the like. IT/Nothingness is right here, Infinite Reality itself, It can never not be there. The essence of any manifestation. It is timeless, always here. Eternal. Immortal. Or better: Timeless, like in "can't go anywhere else, has to be right here always". Even in causal Nothingness-states, like Cessation/Nirodha Samapatti/Nirvikalpa/Deep Sleep. Ones True Eternal Impersonal(!) Being, Infinite Consciousness, the Universal Mind itself. Nirodha Samapatti is a special configuration/modulation IT(Infinite Consciousness/Reality) can have, although that modulation of it REVEALS much of its True Essence, Nothingness. IT has also the Infinite Potential to appear as the whole show, the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. And that manifested side is truly nondual with the unmanifested side of Infinite consciousness, One without a second. By logic, "what something is, its essence" has theoretically to be always the same (Which is why everything perceivable doesn't really exist, because it is temporary, changing. Using verbs instead of nouns would be much more approriate). That is why Nothingness (pointing to the "always there" Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness) is for example a much better pointer than for example anything pointing towards the "Manifested Side" of Infinite Consciousness, like the eternal flow of shapes, or even Gods/Buddhfields. As long as anything with form, anything specific (and that means also ANYTHING changing, which is also only temporary) is identified with the Absolute: Good luck getting rid of that... There is only one Thing/Non-Thing that is eternal/timeless, Reality itself. Anything else is changing.... The flow of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Of course the changing flow of the Manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness is in a nondual way the same as the Unmanifested Nothingness Side. But the ESSENCE of the manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness is Nothingness, not the other way round. The Manifested Side is NOT the essence of the Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness. Because the manifested side can go (Nirodha Samapatti), so it is not the essence (not what something is, see above). The necklace and gold. Gold would be the unmanifested stay, it stays. The necklace disappeares in the furnace, leaving only god. One is the essence of the other, not the other way round. Nirodha Samapatti is the gold as molten in the furnace, without shape/properties. The necklace, or any jewellery, is the show/manifested side of Infinite Consciousness/gold. A very nice book on the Awakenings/Enlightenments into the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness vs. the Unmanifested Side (and impersonal/causal/Nothingness) of Infinite Consciousness: Infinite Consciousness: An In-depth Exploration of the Shift in Consciousness Constitutive of Enlightenment in relation to True Nature, the Soul, the Body-Mind, the Heart and the Me, Michaël Szyper being able to differentiate between Awakenings/Enlightenments into the Manifested or Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness would also put the whole Awakening n+1 show in a better perspective. A perspective that would actually bring real peace.... But of course would take a lot of juice out of the show, so lets see if Maya prefers the juicy show for yet a bit longer... If in doubt, always bet on Maya! You never get disappointed... Either she looses (which is nice), or the bet is won. A win-win situation uhhhh, sorry. And as always, Bon Voyage! Summarizing all of that: Nirodha Samapatti is a state, and is Nothingness, but is still a conditioned state. Temporary. But very useful and making the Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness quite clear... But since it is an expression of the Unmanifested Side of Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness, it is closer and a better pointer, a state making Absolute Reality/Nothingness clearer than for example saying the Infinite Flow of Infinite Reality (or anything with form, anything that can be described, God (not the Godhead), Buddhafield, whatever), which is a pointer to the Manifested Side of Infinite Consciousness. That framework explains why concerning Causal Nothingness-states, like Cessation/Nirodha Samapatti/Nirvikalpa/Deep Sleep. (1) some say it IS the Absolute (2) and some say it is only a state, passing, temporary. As most of the time, nobody is smart enough to be wrong all the time, or even completely wrong with a statement (although some go looong ways to performe quite good in both categories, but that is another topic). Same here: Both statements (1) and (2) are true, but partial, and need to be put into context. Then it can be integrated. That is why I am such a fan of Integral Thinking/Integral Cognition. It solves contradictions.... And if one has partial truths and contradictions in ones Mental Operating System, one is a walking contradiction on two legs, the prime victim of Maya and suffering of the self-contraction (also a contradiction walking on two feet). Although some seem to enjoy it quite a bit, at least for a time... Maybe that is a bit helpful... Selling Water by the River

Yes. If you work carefully with Solipsism, and what I have read from you so far sounds very responsible. Danger is: When there is no other, there can still be you. Only you. One. Not One without a second. One, but not fully nondual/impersonal. Breakingthewall, from what I read you understand this very well, the danger and potential of that concept. Please allow me some general musings on the topic, not specifically adressed to you. The idea that the ego/separate self is God is the worst idea one can have. We agree on that. Blows up that which one has to kill/transcend. The opposite of Neti Neti. Shooting oneself in the knee and then starting the Marathon, and saying: I have done a good preparation for the run. At least in my perspective, there is zero problem for integrating the different views concerning Solipsism, and its partial truths: Solipsism on the level of the separate self: Wrong. The separate self IS NOT GOD or Reality. Ones True Being (Nothingness) is Infinite Reality, not the separate-self-cloud covering exactly that deep impersonal immortal always here True Identity. Solipsism on the level of the Absolute/Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind: right. But totally useless once one is there, because it is just another fake concept floating in ones most obvious True Being. One snips it off like a fly. And before being there, it harms one also, because in any way it blows up ones ego, even if very subtle. And even if its just one more concept floating in oneself. I never had the need to think in Solipsistic terms while letting Nonduality ripen. Never. It would have only hurt me on the path, probably big time. How to get rid of "other", the loving style: And if one starts really feeling and intuiting that ones own being and consciousness is looking out from the eyes from another human (or any being): You would never ever start with ideas of Solipsism. Never. Instead, that beginning recognition is the highest level of empathy and love. But at that moment, there is no "you". Just impersonal Consciousness, in you, and the "other". It doesn't even make sense to say there is no other, because that implies that you are there (as concept and subtle separate self identity, not as Reality), because there really is no other. But also no you. Not one, but One without a second. Nondual, and not just Union of one with the Totality. So one can't say there is only me. There is only THAT. And nothing more can be said about that. And it is not one! It is not two! It is the one without a second. Nondual. Not one. And THAT is love, THAT is impersonal being, THAT is the essence of all of Reality. And THAT is also Nothingness. But anyway: If one thinks about it while on the way of getting to the Absolute, the concept of Solipsism is not useful. And when "one" is there, it is another crappy and redundant concept floating through oneself that also doesn't make sense. Which means nothing else then: The concept is not useful at any point in time on the path. It is a half-true half-false concept, making it completely false. Like every half-truth. If one wants to get home fast, better forget about it! Or use it with extreme care. I personally would rather recommend dissolving each and every concept, let real nonduality (an awakened state) ripen in an nonceonceptual empty mindstream, than playing Russian Roulette with such a concept. Ones separate self is not even dead when the shot goes off, but even more alive and bigger than ever.... Selling Water by the River

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awe "Awe is an emotion comparable to wonder[1] but less joyous. On Robert Plutchik's wheel of emotions[2] awe is modeled as a combination of surprise and fear. One dictionary definition is "an overwhelming feeling of reverence, admiration, fear, etc., produced by that which is grand, sublime, extremely powerful, or the like: in awe of God; " And in the german wikipedia, it defines it even better: "Ehrfurcht ist ein hochsprachliches Wort für eine mit Verehrung einhergehende Furcht. Sie bezieht sich immer auf einen übermächtigen (erhabenen) Adressaten, ob real oder fiktiv. Sie kann individuell oder allgemein üblich sein. Sie empfinden zu können, wird zumeist als Tugend angesehen. „Ehrfurcht“ ist stärker als „Scheu“ oder „Achtung“, schwächer als „Unterwerfung“ oder „Anbetung“. Im Brockhaus von 1896 wird die Ehrfurcht als „der höchste Grad der Ehrerbietung, das Gefühl der Hingabe an dasjenige, was man höher schätzt als sich selbst, sei es eine Person oder eine geistige Macht, wie Vaterland, Wissenschaft, Kirche, Staat, Menschheit, Gottheit“ beschrieben" "Awe is a fear that goes along veneration. Awe always relates to something that is perceived as overpowering (sublime) addressee, real or fictive. .... . In the Brockhaus dictionary of 1896 awe is described as "the highest degree of veneration, the feeling of submission to that which one values higher as ones own self, be it a person or a mental/spiritual power, like motherland, science, church, state, humanity or Divinity". Hope my translation is not completely off... Sure, later Reality/God/Divinity/Nothingness is experiences as ones own True Essence. But if one hasn't felt awe on the way there, I would take that as a big indicator that there is more juicy stuff to experience. Daniel Brown said that the genuine reaction to a glimpse of the Dharmakaya is awe. An awe that humbles the separate self to its knees. Because THAT is way overpowering, like "something that is perceived as overpowering (sublime) addressee" of the definition of awe above. Selling Water by the River

Yes. Don't know Angelo Dulio (but Ingram and Yangs descriptions). Full Enlightenment has the same deep structure always. Only one Nothingness/Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind. Without a second. But the way & style being talked about it later varies from perspective to perspective. And to be more precise: The ego (as technical term) or character continues doing its thing. The separate-self-arisings/elements gets understood/seen in real time (and in all its aspect) as illusions moving in oneself, and are transcended and normally cut off (Trekchö) as Illusion. Unnecessary. Awakaned Awareness takes over, and lives ones life much more efficient than the old biased separate-self ever could. Waaay more pleasant. "One" just gets out of the way. Like a lense of perception, normally with some kind of location/center, with I-feelings and I-thoughts. That drops. What remains is an Understanding/Realization of that which can never not be there, Reality itself. That is Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness. The essence of all appearance, including the visual field, is that. That Nothingness is infinite, since any boundary to anything else would be form, an imagined arising. and while there are Infinite Perspectives in Indras Net, non-dimensionally "hovering" or being manifested/imagined in Nothingness (out of which you normally forget all but "your" perspective (and call that your life), the Awareness of all of these perspectives can ever only be that Infinite Nothingness, which is also the essence/Suchness of every appearance. Deep Structures of the process towards Enlightenment. To get there, you need at least the following Awakenings (discrete "hard" STATES, induced by meditation, psychedelic, karma, ..., that one can not jump with just conceptual thinking/videos/whatever. That ends with one form of Solipsism or another, a cul-de-sac) the ego-mind becoming a fully transparent witness (Mahamudra. Yoga 1 & 2): Death/Transcendence of the ego/person. Outcome Transparent Witness. Not yet death/Transcendence of the Indviduality/last subtle separate selves. Nonduality with the visual field (Mahamudra, Yoga of One Taste, Stage 3). Induced and boosted by the step above. the visual field becoming boundless/infinite (further ripening of One Taste Yoga): Infinite the Awakening that Consciousness is Nothingness, nothing that can ever be pointed to, and the Awakening that each and every appearance of the visual field IS Nothingness, its essence is Nothingness (further ripening of One Taste Yoga). Generalizing this awakening/understanding to any possible manifestation. the Awakening to this boundless infinite visual field/Consciousness being also timeless, eternal, never-not-here. Deathless alway-here-Mind. the "you" becoming nothing at all, no center, no lense, no feeling, no thought. Or all of that moving through you like the wind: Mahamudra, Yoga of Nonmeditation, stage 4. The visual field remains, but without you. Impersonal. That is a ripening process of Impersonality (similiar to the ripening of Nonduality in the Yoga of One Taste), which ends suddenly with waking up, or Full Enlightenment, crossing over to the Dharmakaya or whatever lingo floats ones boat. That is Full Enlightenment. Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. Fully Waking up to ones True Identity. The Awakenings of Yoga of One Taste, Stage 3, are already called Enlightenments, for example in Zen. That is a much more common Enlightenment than the real one, Basis Enlightenment. That is why for example Leo emphasizes in God Realization that True You/Reality/"God" (I am reluctant to use that word, not because it is technically incorrect, but because it can lead to a lot of Separate-Self-Boosting) imagines everything. That becomes fully clear with Full Enlightenment/Basis Enlightenment, realizing the full identity of oneself and Reality. Infinite Nothingness manifesting/imagining the whole gig. Like in couldn't be different, nowhere and in no dimension/time/anything. Can't be. That was a longer musing than I expected. These are the Deep Structures of the process of Enlightenment. that I have found in ANY Enlightenment-Path-Description. (like in: a few hundreds of books later. You know, nutcase...). You can have that and do that with cessations and a concentrative meditation path, or Dzogchen/Mahamudra. One doesn't need cessations, as Ingram and Yang confirm. Both (and also Wilber) changed later to include Mahamudra/Dzogchen elements. That gave at least yours truly something to think about. Good book for Mahamudra: Pointing out the Great Way, Brown. Many posts of yours truly on that also... And one little warning: Without the corresponding Awakening states, one will a) not understand (or get) Nonduality or Union with the (infinite) visual field by just conceptual description (for example of the one of yours truly above). No chance. But you can recognize when that starts to happen when you know the map of the path. You can know how to induce that with practice, and how to make out of a spark a forest fire b) not understand the full Impersonal nature of ones true being (Nothingness), the death and transcendence of the separate self. That is impossible before it fully happens. But one can get at least an idea when the ripening of that happens. When it fully happens, its clear. Unmistakenably so. Waking Up. So the "game"/path is to induce these states, via for example the practices described above. And then there is a cycle of meditation state->realization/understanding->boosting more meditation state (because it got more impersonal) -> more realization/understanding n+1. "Thinking" ones way to Oneness/God/ItsallIMAGINED and itSAULGOODMAN doesn't work, only leads to Ego/Separate-Self-Solipsism. The 5 aggregate frame is from the earliest phases of Buddhism. Buddhism tended to end at (and emphasize) causal states back in the day (like Nirvana/Cessation/Nothingness as state). That mostly got replaced (transcended and in included) with superior realizations later, Nondual in Ken Wilbers language (Nagarjuna, Madhyamaka). That basically means not loosing ones Identity as Nothingness being the whole Infinite Field (and the essence of that being Nothingness, not metaphorically but literally, as direct experience) as Nothingness. A nice statement from that stage is: - We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.- Kalu Rinpoche. That is a statement one doesn't normally here from the early Buddhism phases. There is only one Nothingness, but the states can be a bit different on however the Nothingness is approached. However one defines Cessation, Nirvana, Nirvikalpha, nirodha samapatti, its all in the class of Causal State experiences of Ken Wilber. Causal in the meaning of Source, Nothingness. Nice article on nirodha samapatti https://medium.com/@rogerthis/lets-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness-fd78a38f3d28 Yours truly would recommend forgetting the concept of Mahasamadhi. Cultural Baggage. Why should that happen? So much effort for the whole imagined/manifested show, and then its game over when one understand what one is? Doesn't happen in practice, and why should it? For the first time, one can play and celebrate manifestation without the fear and lack and cycle of suffering. That is the True Nondual Realization. It is not the scarcity and quite negative perspective of escaping suffering and reaching Nirvana that early Buddhism/Hinayana had. It is the full celebration of manifestation, full with Agape, and if done in an integral way and with intelligence just a beautiful dream. See Francis Lucille for example. He calls it life is a celebration then. It is. He has a very sane perspective on all of that. And please feel invited to review my archieve of posts for more details because yours truly is God, marvels all day at his own perfection, of course has madly fallen in LOVE with himself, and nobody else is awake, you are all dreaming, and only God can describe himself in the best way of all Multiverses possible since there are no others, and everbody else is wrong because or biased and so on and so on (put in the Solipsistic Ramblings of your preference n+1), and its all imagined anyway!!! Sorry, just kidding of course. If you like that channel, just ask and you will helped by various proponents of Absolute Solipsism and other funny concepts Selling Water by the River PS: Very necessary, after all this conceptual overkill of yours truly: Bassui: After having read the letter, drop it into the fire Much more true than all the stuff written above: “frog pond plop” Basho

Some musings on Nothing/Causal-States of Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, their benefits, vs. Nondual Realization/Enlightenment in daily life: A state of Nothing (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha,...) is not the Absolute, it is a state happening in Nothingness/ Absolute/ Infinite/ Reality. Absolute Reality by definition is always there, never not there, can't go anywhere else (since IT is infinite). Nondual Realization/Enlightenment: And if one can keep ones True Identity as Nothingness BEING the essence of Everything (the visual field, and the Infinite Nothingness in which it "floats") going in daily life (as , and see "IT" as the Essence/Nothingness/Suchness of every arising of the Visual Field/Infinite Consciousness), then you will have the infinite and unconditional bliss/love flowing. That comes with the package. Or what would in the end finally switch off the separate self and its grasping for blissful-experiences finally, it not bliss without condition/cause? "We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all". Kalu Rinpoche Historically, Buddhism tended to first master (Hinayana, today the surviving Theravada-forms) the Concentrative-Meditation Nothing-states (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana), until later guys like Nagarjuna reached and described the ongoing nondual Realization of Nothingness as the ESSENCE not only of (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana), but of the world/visual field/any manifestation. Madhyamaka came out of that, and the Nondual revolution of Mahayana. It is easier to get these Nothing-states via Hardcore-Concentrative-Meditation than ongoing Nondual Realization in daily life. Because for that, all separate self arisings must be transcended WHILE they arise in daily. For (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana) it is enough to switch them off via concentrative meditation on the pillow. So a more brute-force-concentrative approach. Many Theravada-Paths aim for Cessation. The material from Ingram and Frank Yang clearly describe that when the "cycling" through states of Cessation starts, that this is useful to understand the separate self when it reassembles going out of Cessation. But both later added some techniques similiar to Mahamudra/Dzogchen because that makes it much more efficient. Both state that cessation and its path is optional, not necessary. There are cases who don't go through cessations. But these tend to take Awareness into the Sleep-State (lucid dream, or not fully blanking out when passing deep sleep. See Roger Thisdells descriptions of that for example). Mahamudra/Dzogchen directly aims for Nondual Realization in daily life, but also use concentration states on the pillow. But not exclusively, and more as a starting point. They have excellent techniques to make the everpresent Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness in daily life perceivable and "hold-able", and to transcend the separate-self-clouds blocking the realization that Nothingness/Reality always already is right here, right now. Buuut the big advantage of Nothing (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha,...) : You see what can be gone (all and everything) and the Absolute/Infinite is still "there", as in Reality/Absolute Reality never can not be there. So one doesn't tend to confuse the Nothingness/Reality/Infinite Potential with any kind of specific form, or perceiver/subject/separate self. IT makes sure that after a lot of experiences of going in and especially coming out of that state of Cessation/Nothing (and the subject/separate self/indviduality, together with the world, reassembles itself), is that one doesn't confuse Ones True Essence (Nothingness) with any form, howerever subtle or formless. Yes, and there are also formless states that are still form or manifestation (not the Nothing/Cessation, since they change AND have some subtle form. Something like a formless object like i, the square root of minus 1. Ever seen it? Ever can imagine it? Yes, as formless concept. Or in Wilbers System, low subtle/high subtle and low causal. High Causal in Wilbers System is the Abyss, Nothingness, Cessation. Beyond, the True Nondual opens up in daily life: Once the separate self is fully killed/transcended touching the Nothing/Nothingness/Cessation, one becomes empty enough to sustain the infinite mere appearance nondual states in daily life without any clouding/separate self/individuality covering/clouding or disfiguring IT. And the subtle essence of individuality/separate self is still a subtle formless arising/feeling/lense of perception. And if one hasn't fully seen through that/transcended it /sees it moving within oneself fully&fast enough, one can not see/perceive that Nothingness is the essence of everything. The visual field really "changes heart", appearances "hovering" in Infinite Nothingness, their essence Nothingness itself. Yes to all of that. But it helps being without attachment/craving to rest in ones True Being, however one wants to call it, God or Nothingness or Infinite Reality, Universal Mind, whatever. And more in my language/use of terms, God/Infinite Reality/Nothingness is indeed manifesting/imagining attachment and craving within itself. God/Infinite Reality/Nothingness can manifest/imagine Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha in one of its Infinite Perspectives. Or better: switch every other imagination/manifestation just off. Making for this being/human/perspective more clear what is always there, and how the separate self re-assembles when going "out" of Nothingness/Cessation and form and subject of the object arises again. And of course Buddhism is a dream. Like everything else, and any other teaching. By definition. But a good/efficient dream if well done, using the right teachings from it (out of a sea of stuff that apparently doesn't work, since 99%+ of Buddhists are not enlightened), can get one to realize ones true essence. Unefficient dreams/teachings don't. Like a map with the drawing/description of the mountain, but no path drawn on it to get up to the peak. "Buddhism is a dream. God is not." Of course. Infinite Reality/Absolute/God/Universal Mind is always there, never can not be there. IT is dreaming the dream in itself, but IT not a dream. Selling Water by the River PS: If you are bored to death by all these concepts of yours truly, get a good laugh and look up Bazooka Jesus last Fanclub-video-post.

The nirodha samapatti meditator I mention can "realize" nothingness. An not trough a dmt but any moment he wants. Your nothingness looks more mental tripy and his experience looks more grounded. I trust buddhist over psychonauts

Free will or determinism: It is one of the paradoxes that can not be solved on the level of separate self, only in Enlightenment. Then it is no longer paradoxical. When not understanding and still believing the illusion of a separate self, zero freedom. When realizing what one really is, Universal Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness: Total freedom. There is no other game in town.... But there won't be a "you" left that is separate from the Totality. Practically speaking: Investing time in this question while not knowing what one really is is pointless. It is absolutely pointless. It is a question based on a wrong assumption: That the separate self exists as more than just an illusion. The rope mistaken for a snake. Better investing time in finding out what one really is. Selling Water by the River

So, lets go through it. Number of Pictures 1 5 9 2 6 10 3 7 11 4 8 12 1: Identity with THAT (That=anything, any CONCEPT. Body-Mind. Ego. World. Whatever. n+1). Roger Thisdell stage 1: 2: Wiping/Process of Transcending the Identity with any self-concept (Body-Mind. Ego. World. God. Whatever. n+1) 3: I AM (identity with being, but nothing specific anymore. "Opaque" witness, not fully empty) Roger Thisdell Stage 2 4: Wiping/Transcending/Killing the BEING anything at all 5: There is still some Identity: I. But nothing specific at all, pretty empty. A pretty empty "Transparent" Witness. Can be quite nondual (One Mind/the whole visual field. One (but a not empty one), united with the nondual visual field. Many Psychedelic Experiences throw one here. Nondual, but not fully empty, Sense of transparent/pretty empty Self/Witness still well and alive. Roger Thisdell stage 3. 6: Wiping/Transcending/Killing the transparent Witness 7: One is No-Self. Nothing. Buuut: Identity with No-Self/Nothing, the perceiving or understanding of being Nothing. Still one arising/subtle identity/concept too much. A Portal to the Absolute. Awareness OF Emptiness. Awareness OF Being. Any Awarness OF is still not fully nondual. Even if Awareness OF Emptiness/Being/Infinite/whatever n+1 . Psychedelics can bring one here, if "one" gets already quite empty, but Individuality (very subtle/murky here) is still there. Roger Thisdells Stage 4: 8/9/10/11: Understanding and letting go even this last self-referential concept/thought/identity 12: Nothing. Pure Suchness. Infinite Consciousness so empty that there is not even a Watcher/Awarerer/Identity with No-Self. Final Enlightenment. Ultimate Reality itself. Only then, daily life is nondual, infinite, enlightened. And the bliss of ones True Being, NOTHINGNESS, flows freely. Really no separate self/individuality left. Only then one is really the whole Enchilada without any filters/lenses/localization of any separate self/individuality. The character keeps continuing doing its thing in ones True Self, Reality itself. The price of that: Any self-reflective awareness of being anything (separate) at all is transcended, and can be seen happening within oneself. Understood, and no longer believed, mostly just cut off (that Illusion again). And that is not even being the "No-Self Self" of Thisdells stage 4, or picture 7. To be fully everything in daily life (fully nondual) without any separation, one needs to be fully nothing at all. Totally empty. Any separate self, however subtle, fully gone. And the last remnants of Individuality or separate self can be very very subtle. Only that gets the permanent bliss and love flowing that has got its home in the Nondual True Self. "We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche" Roger Thisdell Stage 5 And by the way, any just conceptual identity with anything (The THAT of I am THAT), That=anything, any CONCEPT. Body-Mind. Ego. World. Whatever. n+1), even with God/Reality/whatever, is picture 1 of the path in daily life. I AM THAT (That=God/Reality/whatever). Because it is normally not a nondual awakened state in daily life, but just some ideas taken away from a trip that got one to Nonduality. A hang-over of the trip, while being currently not at all in an awakened or nondual state. And hopefully it is at least this (a hang-over from a trip), and not just some pure conceptual trip without any change in states towards at least a bit awakening, and not just a pure head-trip. And actually a much worser starting place, because the lovely concept of being God blows up ones sense of self (THAT) tremendously. Neti Neti didn't get easier with making THAT bigger than it was before.... Pour encourager les autres.... Sorry Selling Water by the River

Yes. But how many Buddhists are enlightened? Its easy to turn emptiness (small e, or nothing) or void into dogma. And Ultimate Reality is void, in the meaning of Nothingness. Which includes Infinite Potential also. Let's use the system of Ken Wilber: The states you mentioned would be classified as Causal States, I assume 5 MeO induced. The one with the void is quite empty, the other one some kind of Whiteout/Infinite Potential, I assume from your description. Obviously IT. So far, so good. How much separate-self elements were still active ("You become aware OF the void", so YOU + OF active, and "because when YOU see THAT"), and how fully nondual that was, I can't tell from the post/text. The thing is, to get it into daily life, the separate self arisings need to be transcended (the YOU/transparent Witness aware OF something). And these are really really subtle at the end. But the Total Emptiness/Nothingness of ones primordial Being has to potential to kill them in the end (or to transcend them, spot them, know them, cut them off). With enough time in the right states. My path was mainly Mahamudra/Dzogchen based. I can not tell you if and how (and with how much time) you can transcend these subtle separate self layers in these states you mention. What I can tell you, that I am not aware of a single case where that worked fully (until the end of the road) only or mainly with Psychedelics. Can be there are, I am not aware of them. My first assumption on the psychedelic path is: Not enough time in these states, and the very/quite empty/subtle"perceiver" OF that obvious Infinity/Whiteout was still there. With OF written in capital letters. And the subtle perceiver can't easily/normally see itself. My second assumption on the psychedelic path is: That the psychedelic-only path doesn't suffice is wanted by the Universe, the construction of Reality. Because to get fully empty sobre, you have to transcend your ego/separate self. It is necessary for mainting/practicing certain states that are necessary for final Realization to become a more compassionate being. Because you need an open and accepting/loving state/heart for these states. If one is not compassionate, one won't get there. Ken Wilber clearly states that also. All traditions have training systems of compassion/love/boddhichitta. And Psychedelics deliver a large part of understanding (Infinity/Whiteout/nondual) reality without change in character necessary. But not the full thing, stable in daily life. And I assume that is not a bug, but a feature. The world doesn't need enlightened "not so loving" people, doing things "not so loving" people do, powered by Enlightenment-states of no more psychological suffering and the like. To get Realization stable in everyday life, that subtle perceiver/Awarer needs to go/transcended, and specifically the OF sth. needs to go. Nondual. In Ken Wilbers System: "Beyond that Infinity, there is an Abyss. Of Nothingness/Emptiness/Shunyata" (Hardcore Concentrative Meditation State, something similiar to Cessation/Nirvikalpa, or maybe also corresponding state accessible via Psychedelics, Of which I don't know, never heard of it. Normallly it stops at the Whiteout/Infinity. From what I assume it is hard to get via this Abyss (if it exists) the separate self killed/transcended via Psychedelics). And even going the hardcore-states-path (psychedelics or hardcore concentrative meditation), that Abyss-Shunyata-Causal-(Cessation)-State dissolves the separate self only after a long time in it, or better said going in and out quite often. Like after Cessations coming out of that Abyss when the separate self "reassembles" again and one can watch how that works. But as you can read in Ingrams Book and Frank Yangs writings, that doesn't work directly to understand the structure of the separate self (but only helps doing so), and is only the beginning of that path, not the end. And also, both (Ingram and Yang) state it is not necessary to got that Cessation-Path. I know cases of the hardcore concentrative systems that have achieved that, but also they started with Hardcore Concentrative Meditations, aiming for Cessations, and later on included elements of the Mahamudra/Dzogchen-Path (BEFORE Enlightenment), see Daniel Ingram and Frank Yang. Both switched to including more Mahamudra/Dzogchen elements/style, or at least integrated elements of it, because the classic Theravada Path Map didn't reflect their experiences, at least not from Path 2 to 4 Theravada Map onwards. see Ingrams Book and Frank Yangs writings. Same with Ken Wilber, who changed after 15 years Zen to Mahamudra/Dzogchen, doing that 15 years. But, as I said, that wasn't my path (Theravada-Path). From my experiences, I would dissolve the separate self systematically and directly (Stage 3 and 4 Mahamudra+Dzogchen), using large parts of daily life for doing that with the right methods, From all I have seen/read/know, that is much more direct, pleasant and efficient. It is very direct, no detours. Can be practices and used efficiently in daily life, and not only/mainly facing the wall on the pillow, Its the method developed&chosen by the Tibetan, who have (arguably) doing that for the longest uninterrupted time with most practitioners and most success. It is also their highest teaching system/method. Hope that helps a bit.... Selling Water by the River

@Water by the River but listening to the explanations of the Buddhists it seems that they say something nonsense. It does not seem that they refer to the lack of form, but to the lack of everything. they say that the ultimate reality is void. if so, the relative reality would also be void in my experience, first you become aware of the void, but then the void opens up and reveals that the appearance of nothingness was the ultimate frontier of the absolute. It cannot be the void or cessation, it is not a possibility, it is imaginary, a form. the true non-form is the absolute, which is unimaginable, and is total, everything. It's not just an experience that could be imaginary, because when you see that, it's completely obvious. It englobe everything, if something is excluded, it's a limitation, imaginary

Yup, agree with that. emptiness [small e] in the meaning of nothing, as in opposite of something, is imaginary so to say. At least for me, the usage of Emptiness/Shunyata is more something along these lines, as per my last post: "A good meaning of Emptiness/Shunyata [big E] is (in the opinion of yours truly, in the meaning of "a good meaning/concept brings one closer to realization, not away from it) all is just a construct of mind (emptiness of concepts), and the passing nature of everything (of even empty/void states/cessation/Nirvikalpha) basically, that everything (apperance, state, self-thought/concept-arising, anything at all) is just an imagined arising in the Absolute. Just an apperance, a process, a verb, not a noun, a self-existing substance or thing. It all happens in True Infinite You, nothing is permanent, all changing and in flux. a verb, not a noun. every and each appearance "thing"/arising is finite, temporary, passing. Not the Infinite/Absolute." So the Buddhist usage of Emptiness/Shunyata normally aims not to emptiness in the sense of nothing there or nothing, but more on the transient character of all manifestation/phenomena/arisings (which then could be called imaginary, or temporarily arising IN Reality made OF Reality/Nothingness). And so it also emphasizes the unlimited potential, or infinite potential of the Absolute, or Nothingness. So in that sense it means more Infinite Reality. Although considering THE Emptiness as a thing is then the so called eternalist error, making it a thing. Considering it as non-existent would be the Nihilist error. Its nothing specific, yet it is not nothing. Emptiness/Shunyata is Infinite Reality itself. The Buddhists take the Emptiness perspective, Vedanta takes the Infinite Consciousness perspective. Both are methods to point to Absolute Reality where both Dualities (Something, Nothing) collapse: The Opening of Reality itself, nothing specific that appears (in it), but also not nothing (like in nothing at all). But yeah, I agree with your posts. It is always a question of what one understands under these terms, like emptiness/nothing, or Empitness/Shunyata/ Nothingness/Absolute. There is a lot of "gray area usage" in many articles, and sooo much potential for mutual misunderstanding because of varying use of terms. The Buddhist Emptiness/Shunyata normally is not equated with nothing, but more with the list of items above. But that is just a question how one defines and uses these terms.... Saying the Absolute or True You needs to be fully empty on the other side means exactly that: It/One needs to be nothing at all, Neti Neti gone to the end of full infinite nondual No-Self, else one confuses it with an object/arising. Only when fully empty, it/one can conforms with Nothingness/Absolute, the essence of reality. And that then (when fully empty) can contain everything. Okay, I admit, that post was for the hardcore-aficionados-fraction . Bassui finished his letters always with something like this (to not get anybody get caught up in unnecessary concepts): After reading, throw it into the fire. Same with this post of yours truly... What I want to say is: if one continues with Neti Neti in meditation and practice, one is doing fine, and doesn't associate the Absolute/Nothingness with anything that can be described, pointed to, talked about, has properties, and so on, but PURE indescribably, or being totally infinite (which is the same as totally empty/Empty), then one is also doing fine. One only gets problems when ones Absolute is not fully empty/Emptiness/Nothingness. For example if it changes or has certain properties attributed to it, like the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness/Absolute can have (like God, Gods, Intelligence, Love, whatever n+1). Or even "better", pretty empty remnants of the separate self (empty nondual witness, Awareness "of" sth., and so on). And the Absolute can be fine without any show appearing in it. Empty, Infinite. Cessation/Nirvikalpha/Deep Sleep. Water by the River

A nice post from Frank Yang on Bernadette Roberts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernadette_Roberts ). https://www.instagram.com/p/CsJMKS6uNZf/ True No-Self is not the No-Self of no Ego, or No-Person, not even the No-Self of the Unitive States, or "being" a Nondual/Unitive Infinite (mere appearance) Field (that still contains an awareness (a separate self with individuality is having, subject) of an infinite empty nondual field ("object"), for example induced temporarily by psychedelics). True No-Self is the final death (or transcendece) of any form of the separate self, crossing over to Infinite Fully Empty Impersonal Nothingness/Consciousness, or Full Enlightenment. "There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all". - Kalu Rinpoche True No-Self can not be understood before fully waking up, before Great or Final Enlightenment, where any reamaining separate self fully dies/gets transcended, Infinite Impersonal Consciousness unseparable of its appearances arising within in. That last deep identity change is not gradual, but sudden. Unexpected. And has nothing beyond it. The dropping of the separate self can not (by definition) be imagined or understood before it finally happening, see the yellow markings above. Because who would do the imagining? A separate self (in whatever version). Which has to be gone to fully wake up. So the separate self can't do the imagining how it "would be like" to be gone. It is the "thing" doing/being the imagining. "Incapable of conceiving its own non existence", see text above. When one walks down the unitive states road to the end, boosted by Psychedelics, one can end up with forms of solipsism, and even further with an Infinity of Gods. A confusion of that with the Absolute, or Fully Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, certain separate self aspects still left untranscended. Which then kill the unitive and nondual state of this separate self/unity-state-identity/God within an Infinity of Gods/Alien/n+1 when coming out of the trip. Necessary for that confusion (some form of pre-trans confusion to use the wording of Ken Wilber) is, among other confusions, to misidentitfy True No-Self: not True No-Self (the death/transcendence of any and all separate self/Individuality arisings, resulting in fully empty IMPERSONAL Consciousness/Nothingness/Absolute) but with some lower forms of "No-Self", like No-Ego, No-Person, No-separate-body-mind (but nondual), No-Self of Unitive States up to a very subtle and empty transparent Witness (already nondual, being the nondual infinite field), but with some Individuality still left. The last dropping/transcending/-seeing as objects arising in ones True Self- of identity, center, localization, any forms of individuality-arisings, very very subtle feelings or awareness OF Emptiness, OF an infinite universe being seen, awareness OF being, awareness of anything is what finally brings this sudden crossing over to ones Real Identity. Waking up, Enlightenment, fully empty and impersonal Consciousness/Reality. And that is where there is nowhere further to go (no n+1, no new Awakenings), final peace and liberation are to be found. In ones True Identity. And that is why stopping short, and declaring that stopping short (New Awakening n+1) as higher as that crossing over to ones Real Identity (Nothingness), is a dangerous pre-trans-confusion, which doesn't lead to ones True Being and final liberation and the end of suffering, but a continued grasping and suffering for ever higher and newer "Awakenings" not into emptiness/Nothingness, but form/manifestation, and how the manifestation/imagining process is structured. And for those not even walking this (psychedelic-) path, but basking in proliferating mere (retold) concepts or stories about this path, ending in Solipsism and Infinity of Gods, it doesn't even deliver the transcendence and beauty that these unitive and infinite psychedelic states bring. But something on a spectrum ranging from suffering to madness. The spiritual path is the transcendence of the separate self, its death or letting go, once and for all. Neti Neti, until fully being everything, because one has become the real Nothing/ness. Not the blowing up of the separate-self to infinite God-like-solipsistic dimension. That would be the other direction, leading not to freedom and love, but to suffering and closing down. Directly into the cycle of merciless suffering and dissatisfaction, being caught in the prison of the claws of the separate self/ego/self-contraction. That is what makes this pre/trans-confusion (at least in the perspective of yours truly) very very dangerous. And now, for those disagreeing, the Bear-and-Empty-Mirror thing (signature link) please Selling Water by the River PS: And to end a bit "lighter": A Samsara/Lila consisting of separate selves necessarily needs continuing Illusion/Ignorance concerning ones True Identity. So for the fraction that will for sure not change its mind just because there is Water being sold at the River (posting above), and still prefers to continue with a certain solipsistic-messiah complex, yours truly would recommend considering doing it with style: Something like the very charming and apparently very attractive for the ladies - style of Russell Brand: Then, at least, its very charming . Less capital letters, less exclamation-marks, less angry criticism, blaming and calling names, but truck-loads of charm, (especially) with the opposite sex!

Yes, you are right. In most postings I make already have very long musings mainly coming from the Nothingness/Emptiness/Wisdom/Absolute side of the street. That is why I spare the fellow forum members in most cases from even longer posts including the love/compassion/boddhichitta aspect. But these aspects are at least as important, and often more important. Sat-Chit-Ananda. The bliss and love these higher Awakening States contain. The separate self contraction drowning in the flow of love/bliss of the nondual states. Here are two of my favourite poems from Meister Eckhart on Waking Up & God & Love .which I have posted several times, because of the utmost importance of love on the path. Please, take a few minutes and watch them. They are really beautiful. the videos see for example linked in the post below: And below are some further musings on the utmost importance of Compassion &Love&Boddhichitta on the path & beyond. ... That is why in all Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhist training systems compassion has a nearly (or fully) equal status to the training of wisdom, transcendence and Awakening. It is considered as an equal companion, laying the foundation, of wisdom/ transcendence/ Awakening/ Enlightenment. Strange, is it, if the same systems consider all the be an Illusion, a magic show? So why do they do that?.... [More in the link below]. So,I believe our perspectives align quite well. And I believe because there are some deep structures in the process of waking up to ones True Being, like the flow of Sat-Chit-Ananda and Boddhichitta/Love/Compassion that both comes as side-effect of higher states, but also allows keeping these awake states in daily life more easily if the love/compassion-aspect is actively cultivated. There is a lot of practice of love and compassion in Buddhism, like in Tonglen or Metta. At least in Mahayana-systems like Tibetan Buddhism. In Therevada there is also, but with a bit lower importance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonglen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitrī By the way, yours truly is no way married to Buddhism. I am happy to use anything from any tradition that works & makes sense. Lovely book on the topic is for example "Hixon, L: Coming Home: The Experience of Enlightenment in Sacred Traditions", with Enlightenment Examples ranging from Buddhism, Hinduism, Sufi, Kaballa, Plotinus, I-Ching, Christian Mystics to Vedanta/Advaita like Ramana or Ramakrishna. Its always love and emptiness. Very true. Who knows the spring does not drink from the jar. (Hope that works in English ) Water by the River

I don't feel that you are spamming at all. I went back and read again- and I have to say your words are some of the wisest here. You have captured the Absolute so beautifully- and since it truly cannot be captured - your words become even more beautiful. Yes, if we meet, no words will need to be said. Your destiny is to become a mystic, because your ability to describe God is truly mystifying. And yet, in your descriptions you speak of Pure Awareness - awareness minus the self. This is so true- but these words, much like Buddhism, miss the Love/Bliss. For Lovd/Bliss IS Being. It is Pure, impersonal awareness. Failure to mention Love/Bliss and Fullness is a failure to accurately describe the Transcendence or the falling away of the self. Indeed, Oneness must also not be lost here- for Solipsism points at Absolute Oneness. Non-duality. But Solipsism must fall to Being, as all things do. As the realization of Infinity and Nothingness do. Moreover, Omniscience and Being are bound together, for without Understanding nothing exists. You are Pure Understanding and Love. That is the same as Empty Awareness.

Thanks for your message, and don't worry. Every being has its own style. I am just writing what I wished I had earlier. We will see if and for whom that will be beneficial. There is no other way than to communicate in concepts, words and duality here in this forum. Which is what I try to do as good as possible. I am very well aware of the limits of concepts and theory, and the limits of any kind of practice (see below, section/link Nonmeditation Yoga). And don't worry for me confusing the map with the territory. Else I wouldn't write about Nothingness (to kill every concept) or Madhyamaka or, in the final stage, kicking out all doing/meditating/anything at all: Nonmeditation-Yoga: So I appreciate your post, since I myself would have probably considered writing some kind of similiar warning to somebody like yours truly spamming the forum with theory loaded with concepts. Especially if I would have never seen/intuited the internal state of the theory-concept-factory in real life. If we would meet person to person, we would not need to speak a word to understand each other. Water by the River

Neti-Neti (Vedantic) is a technique used to disidentfy any subject in ones mindstream. I am not this, I am not that. Making it from "being it/subject" to "seeing it/making it an object" moving within onself. Any I-thought and I-feeling can be watched as arisings/objects moving within Oneself. Differentiate, transcend, integrate. Why? Because ones Real Self is TOTALLY empty. Anything one thinks one is has to be made something moving in onself, an object. Or even better: I am not only this. Neti-Neti is the basis/core of all meditation, Buddhist and Vedantic alike. Maybe you like the check Daniel Browns Dissertation on the central meditation system of Yoga (Patanjali), Mahamudra (Tibetan Buddhism), and Theravada. They all have the same "deep structure" of the path, but take views from Emptiness (Buddhism) and Infinite Conciousness (Yoga, Vedantic, Hindu-style). These concepts colour the experiences, but Reality and the outcome of Enlightenment has the same deep structures. But better read directly Pointing Out the Great Way, the Mahamudra system is the most efficient and highest developed system of all of them, according to Daniel Brown. Yours truly can confirm its efficiency from own experience. Madhyamaka ("4 negations" above), the central tenet of Buddhist Philosophy since the Mahayana, basically says: The Absolute is truly Infinite. Or neither existent, nor nonexistent, / Nor both existent and nonexistent, nor neither. One can not describe it in any way, since it transcends and contains all limits. Any "positive" description would limit it. So one can not say it exists. Ex-isting literally means "standing out from reality"[as something specific, discernable]. But the Absolute is Infinite Reality itself, so it can't stand out from itself [as Reality] as something specific. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence from Latin existere, to come forth, be manifest, ex + sistere, to stand. One can not say it doesn't exist, because there clearly are at least perceptions perceiving themselves. There is some kind of show. One can not say its both existing and not existing at the same time. Because that doesn't make sense. And to rule out the last option: one can not say it neither exists nor doesn't exist. That also doesn't make sense. And Buddhism does this Madhyamaka-thing pretty much ever since to avoid any funny idea/concept being put on the Absolute, like Consciousness, God, Love, whatever, n+1. Sure, God is so to say the first manifestation, and love is also the essence of it all. But its too easy to project that on the Absolute, and make it not fully empty or infinite. Which then prevents its full realization. To say the essence of everything is God or Love is fully ok, because that refers already to something manifested, something, something no longer infinite. Emptiness/Shunyata wants to make sure that one doesn't identify anything positive with either ones True Self, nor the Absolute. Empty it out. Or make it fully infinite. Of course, Emptiness again can be made to something "self-existing". Like a state of void/emptiness, or cessation, or Nirvikalpha Samadhi. Then, it is said one has to empty out emptiness: The void is also just a state, something self-existing. It all appears in the Infinite. Emptiness as concept or theory has been used in Buddhism "to death", in many different, often incorrect usages. A good meaning of emptiness/Shunyata is (in the opinion of yours truly, in the meaning of "a good meaning/concept brings one closer to realization, not away from it) all is just a construct of mind (emptiness of concepts), and the passing nature of everything (of even empty/void states/cessation/Nirvikalpha) basically, that everything (apperance, state, self-thought/concept-arising, anything at all) is just an imagined arising in the Absolute. Just an apperance, a process, a verb, not a noun, a self-existing substance or thing. It all happens in True Infinite You, nothing is permanent, all changing and in flux. a verb, not a noun. every and each appearance "thing"/arising is finite, temporary, passing. Not the Infinite/Absolute. Now comes the funny part: Since the Absolute is also NOT Emptiness, the Hindus use the term Infinite Consciousness. Which is also correct, once its fully empty and impersonal. One can more easily project unncessary properties on Infinite Consciousness than on Emptiness/Shunyata. But Shunyata sounds like Nihilism, which also isn't IT. Basically IT/Absolute is Infinite Reality or Infinite Consciousness itself, with potential for sentience if something manifests (perceptions perceiving themselves, that is why it is not Nothing, and has infinite Potential), but at the same time it is not something, because if it would be something, it couldn't be everything. It would not be infinite, but finite and limited. If you are so inclined to read a long post of yours truly, Nothingness is in my humble opinion the best pointer (a term coined by Andrew Halaw): Sounds complicated and paradoxical, but after having passed certain awakening states, only these views makes sense (in that they are able to translate ones new awakening experiences in ways that make sense, or facilitate further growth/transcendence). Then, its no more paradoxical at all. So, if you are so inclined get some nondual experiences, sobre or not, get pretty empty yourself, and see for yourself what you truly really are.... Selling Water by the River

Yes, understand & agree. " the absence of limitation is absolute life, absolute freedom, absolute love, because it includes everything . whoever realizes the absolute is the only one that exists, but his infinity excludes any solitude. there is no other, but as in a game of mirrors, there are infinite perspectives. you cannot understand it in a linear or superficial way". That is beautiful. And the "one" who realizes the Absolute is gone... replaced by the Infinite Totality that was always already the case. The previous separate self is seen through/transcended/emptied out/dead. A functional character remaining, but the separate self gone. Because how could IT be the Infinite Totality when "anything" separate or individual/individuality still arise&moves in it.... That is why some say no one realizes the Absolute, and that there can not be an enlightened person. I use Nothingness in the definition of Andrew Halaw, to contrast it with Nothing. Nothing has a opposite: Something. Nothingness is neither existence nor non-existence. Madhyamaka-style. Neither existing nor non-existing, nor both, nor neither. Infinite. Infinite Consciousness, or the One without a second. But that already says too much "positive" about "It". Andrew Halaw in "God is Nothingness": "This book is about Nothingness, the great Void of the holy sages, not to be confused with the nothing of the ordinary person. Silence. A blank page or space in a book. A shout. Slapping the table or thumping the floor. These are all expressions of the ineffable truth that is theuniversal nature of reality. Since there is no way to directly capture the highest truth with language, all we can do is point to it. And “Nothingness” is the best verbal pointer that I have found." In the beginning, there was only Nothing. Now there is only Nothing. In the end, there will be only Nothing. There always was, is, and only ever will be Nothing. God is Nothingness Christ is Nothingness Buddha is Nothingness The Tao is Nothingness Brahman is Nothingness The Absolute is Nothingness Nothingness is neither something nor the common nothing; it is the Great Nothing, the eternal, magnificent, all-encompassing Nothingness that transcends being, yet is the ground from which existence itself arises. In truth, there is only Nothingness, for nothing else ever was. Beings suffer because they do not understand Nothing. Intoxicated by their senses and minds, they chase mirages, construct temples, conduct empty rituals, pursue wealth and status, believing that there is something —meaning, purpose, salvation— to attain. Fools are slaves to their senses and thoughts, caught in the snare of form and desire, unaware that all things arise from Nothingness, abide as Nothingness, and return to Nothingness. For nothing has ever happened. Existence and appearance are flashes of Nothingness superimposed upon Nothingness. There are no beings, no worlds, no minds, no consciousness, no souls, no events, no time, no space, no Buddha, no Christ, no Self, no God. There is only the not-‘that’ That— the Great, Magnificent Void, the womb of all existence. NOTHINGNESS. Bound by neither space nor time, Nothingness is dimension-less, time-less, and form-less. The Void is unborn, unoriginated, unconditioned, and deathless, neither coming nor going, ‘creating’ nor destroying, rewarding nor punishing. It has never set anything in motion nor caused anything to happen. Ultimately, there is only Nothing, which is the final and only truth. Nothingness cannot be seen with eyes, nor heard with ears, tasted with the tongue, smelt with the nose, felt by the body, or known by the mind. Do not look for it with your senses or mind, for the Void is beyond color, sound, smell, taste, touch, form, and thought. Transcend them and realize that you are truly Nothing, that in reality there is only Nothing. Then you are free to dance and play on the waves of Nothingness. " and " Nothingness is not sheer blankness, yet neither is it being-ness the way that we ordinarily understand existence; it is the source and true nature of all beings. This is the “vast emptiness, nothing holy” of Bodhidharma, the legendary founder of Ch’an, Sǒn, and Zen Buddhism. Consciousness is neither present nor absent in Nothingness, for Nothingness is actually the root of consciousness. In truth, there is no such thing as consciousness; there is only Nothingness. Consciousness is instantiated Nothingness, as is all of existence. Frightened dullards, clinging to notions of existence, call Nothingness “nihilism,” unaware that Nothing is the exact opposite of deathly sterility; Non-being is the great womb from which everything arises, abides, and eventually returns. From a Buddhist perspective, “Emptiness is not a negative idea, nor does it mean mere privation, but as it is not in the realm of names and forms, it is called emptiness, or nothingness, or the Void” (Suzuki 60). Sunyata, as Nothingness can be called in Buddhism, or Tao in Taoism, sustains everything, including consciousness. It is the vast, empty void of Non-existence that the Buddha calls Nirvana, meaning “extinction” of all ‘being.’ It is what Nisargadatta Maharaj points to when he speaks of ‘Universal Consciousness’ or what Huang Po calls ‘Mind.’ Nothingness is prior to consciousness, as it is is with all phenomena. This is why Huang Po says, “Mind in itself is not mind” (Blofeld 34), meaning that the mind is truly understood only when its own emptiness is realized. For mind is Nothingness occurring as consciousness. When this is properly realized, mind become Mind with a capital “M,” not in the sense that some latent quality has been discovered that it is somehow beyond all conditioning, like some eternal super Consciousness or Witness at the base of our mind; but in the sense that when we realize our own universality as Nothingness, we awaken to our own unlimited nature. This is what sages mean when they talk about “primordial consciousness”; it is the realization that our minds transcend beingness alone, by extending into the core nor Non-being, into Nothingness itself. The mind, in effect, is simultaneously limitless (transcendent) and viscerally present (immanent). Hence, Nisargadatta calls it “Universal Consciousness” to express the insight into the universal Nothingness of our minds. Nothingness creates, supports, animates, and eventually recalls everything, yet is not bound to any single thing. It is the stars, but not limited to them. It is the earth and all of its inhabitants, but is not confined to them. Nothingness is the true nature of all existence. The Buddha, the Awakened One, is also called Tathata, meaning, “One who has arrived at suchness,” suchness being another term for the ineffable, mysterious reality of Nonbeing, sunyata, or Nothingness. We have risen from Nothingness, and to Nothingness we shall return. Therefore, ultimately there is no movement or nothing that ever happens, for everything is in fact Nothingness. “That which is before you is it, in all its fullness, utterly complete” (37). And yet the world continues to change and transform; the seasons come and go; people are born, grow old and die. Nothing changes and yet everything happens. Divinity expresses itself as an acorn, a mustard seed, a lump of coal. Humans, including their toils and vices, are all manifestations of the wondrous Nothingness. “Nothing[ness] is the inexhaustible, suprasensible power underlying all finite beings,” “the emptiness from which all beings are forged” (Chen 90, 92). Nothingness sings as birds, sighs as the wind, breathes as humans, and knows as mind. Once this is realized, there is nothing to worry about, for everything is an expression of Nothing. As the seminal Buddhist scripture, the Heart Sutra, says, “Form is Emptiness; Emptiness is Form.” Your truest nature is Nothingness. Mind and consciousness are in fact Nothingness. This is why Ch’an Master Linji called the Enlightened being a “person of no rank,” someone who can come and go freely. “No rank” means no fixed limitation, free and vast as the sky, bound by neither ‘being’ nor even Non-being. This is the infinite Nothingness of the sages. " and, maybe most important, Appendex I: Nothingness (Infinite Consciousness) has the potential for sentience/awareness, to have awareness arise if an "object"-arising happens. Or perceptions perceiving themselves, with our without separate-self arisings. So it is not Nothing, like in nothing at all. But infinite potential + potential for sentience of "that". See also Benthinos Water-Pistol emerging/manifested in an infinite empty vastness. " Appendix I Some readers may be wondering why I say that awareness is not the Absolute, despite the fact that so many ancient scriptures and eminent teachers say that they are identical. For instance, Nisargadatta taught that consciousness is rooted in (and therefore limited to) the physical human form, while awareness transcended the individual body and was actually the Absolute—that everything is Universal Consciousness. This is more of an instructive approach than a philosophical commitment. If pressed as to whether the Absolute is awareness or not, I would say, like Huang Po did, that, “Mind is not mind, yet neither is it no-mind.” In Nothingness, there is some degree of awareness present—it is not how most people imagine brain death—albeit unconditioned, object- and subjectless. The Consciousness (for lack of a better word) of Non-being is so subtle that the moment we try to reflect upon it to check if we are conscious, we are jarred back into ‘being’ and into our ordinary dualistic consciousness. I hesitate even to call this experience “pure subjectivity,” for that invites a metaphysical position that I am not willing to support. In the end, to paraphrase Socrates, all that I know is Nothing. This Consciousness has shed all of the characteristics that people normally identify with awareness, such as perspective, spatial and temporal contexts, objects, ownership, etc. Yet, if there were no awareness, then it would be impossible to differentiate the numinous Nothingness from how people conventionally conceive of blankness or being comatose. Personally, I think that differentiating between Nothingness and consciousness is helpful, and that is my ultimate goal—to help people realize Non-being or Absolute Consciousness. At that point, I can care less whether people call it Nothingness, God, Brahman, Buddha Nature, One Mind, Universal Consciousness, or a kangaroo. Names at that point, after the Absolute has been realized, are insignificant. " Since this is the first thread I started myself, I allow myself the liberty to blow it up with a waaaay to long ramling like the one above. Hope nobody minds... Selling Water by the River

I'd say that nothing is imaginary. the ultimate reality is the absence of limits, and nothingness is limitation, since it excludes something. non-limitation is the infinite absolute, and I am that. only that exists, it is total freedom and I am aware of it at this moment, it is obvious. here and now infinity is and cannot be otherwise for the obvious reason that real limitations are impossible. the limitations are apparent and are what create the apparent reality that seems to be occurring in time. the absence of limitation is absolute life, absolute freedom, absolute love, because it includes everything . whoever realizes the absolute is the only one that exists, but his infinity excludes any solitude. there is no other, but as in a game of mirrors, there are infinite perspectives. you cannot understand it in a linear or superficial way. To believe that you have done so is the delusion of religion, the fanaticism of the fool who believes that he has deduced the truth with the basic software of the language. transcending this is easy, you just need to humble yourself.

Very good. Please excuse the addition of my further musings below... Perceptions perceiving themselves. And no "You" or Consciousness or Consciousness "of" anything/anyone anywhere to be found... "You are Experience holding the body, somewhere in the field." And the next step can be to see that there is no "You" in "You" are Experience". Just experience arising in Nothingness, made out of Nothingness as its essence. Impersonal. Empty. A brooding silent Abyss of pure Nothingness/Consciousness. Infinite Silence, never to be seen as object. Yet, always here. Not No-thing, but never anything perceiveable. Yet all appearances arising in "it". Not existing, nor non-existing. Experiencing itself, as itself, being itself, infinite. One without a second. Nondual. "Time,Past and future" and "outside of IT" being just ideas/concepts arising in it. (the idea/concept of Solipsism by the way also). The only Infinite Reality (One without a second) in which any arising/concept can appear at all... "You are Experience holding the body, somewhere in the field." is already a "you" too much. But that is probably what you meant anyway, and "I" am adding redundant musings... > And you are holding all bodies too, you solipsistic asshole. ? . And your body-mind is being held in the perspectives of "others" when these perspectives are perceiving your bodymind, and in their perspective are only the illusions arisings of "their" separate-selfes (I-thoughts, I-feelings) arising. In Infinite Nothingness. All appearance being held in Indras Net of Infinite Perspectives. Nothingness perceiving its own arisings. Arisings with the same essence of Nothingness. And there can be nothing besides "this" Infinite Nothingness, Impersonal Empty Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness. Because anything "else" would appear in it, any boundary (which would be necessary for "anything" else) would appear within it. Selling Water by the River

To awaken is definitely not just the "acceptance of Truth" (a concept), as you literally write in the quote above. Awakening is a change in state, for example the visual field getting nondual and infinite, and the "externalness" and "solidity" is replaced with unity and mere appearance. Along with this unmistakenable state-change there is a change in brainwaves, for example more gamma-activity. And its a change in self-identity, towards the "subject" becoming more empty/nothing/transcending. If one changes these states (for example nondual) often and long enough, these states tend to get permanent (transformation), supported by a more empty self-identity, until at one point one is both Nothing/Nothingness, and everything, the infinite nondual field. But what Awakening definitely not is: Just a change in the way of thinking, just a change in the way which concepts are used, and promoting these concepts (for example Solipsism) in an agressive way, and declaring awakening is just believing/accepting these concepts/ an "acceptance" of truth. That is what you are doing, and selling/promoting. Or where is your call to actually do the work, practice and meditate, and really transcend the separate self? Not just a call for different thinking and concepts (Solipsism,...), but an actual practice to induce these awakened states? Most of what I see you doing is promoting certain conceptual concepts/ideas/worldviews (mainly circling solipsictic concepts/worldviews), and harshly attacking anybody who has different concepts/worldviews. How is that different from what all other "nonspiritual" people are doing anyways? Defending their conceptual world-views, and attacking anybody who thinks differently in more or less open or subtle way, because its a threat to their own ego? A change in thinking/concepts is easy, everybody can do it. But if one doesn't have the corresponding awakened nondual states on which these changes of identity are based on, one is just doing wishful conceptual thinking. Replacing one ego/worldview with another, a horizontal move, not a vertical transformation of transcending the separate self. And that transcending is way harder than to just change ones thinking/separate-self/ego-concept. It means to sit down and practice for a long time (in whatever way, for example meditation) to actually induce these states of awakening. And these states then transform ones identity on a deep level. Selling Water by the River

Solipsism and Infinity of Gods is what you end with when you have understood a lot about the manifestated side of Reality/Consciousness (infinite mere appearance hovering nondual in Nothingness), which you can (more or less easily) access via psychedelics. But one oneself is not normally fully Empty/Impersonal Consciousness then. Not full Impersonal Nothingness. Of course one then has to project the remnants of the Inviduality/feelings of being OF something on reality (I am God, sovereign, all of it, all of this God/Buddhafield/Universe/Dimension). Because, as per my last post, the separate self can't fully imagine not being there anymore. If it could, it would be gone right away/enlightened/wake up. Traditional Great Masters had to "generate" this Nonduality/Unity states (infinite mere appearance hovering nondual in Nothingness) via getting empty/impersonal/transcending the separate self. Believe me, that takes a looong time of getting pretty empty/transcending the separate self arisings as an optional show within oneself. So they understand the impersonal empty aspect of Nothingness/Consciousness BEFORE they understand the manifested side (nondual, infinite, mere appearance hovering in Nothingness) of Infinite Consciousness, because these states they only get when being fully empty and impersonal themselves. Pure Consciousness/Reality, nothing specific, no separate self left. Its some kind of "build-in-quality-control" of the classical meditation paths (Neti Neti): You only get to see the Infinite/mere appearance/nondual Nothingness-aspect of the manifestations of the visual field (any kind of field) when being fully empty/Nothingness. So what should one get to see in theory (and apparently in practice also) if one ends up after "seeing" the infinite manifestation of Infinite Consciousness/God while not fully being nothing/Nothingness/God-proper? Solipsism (1) (or the separate self remnants realizing its identity with THIS universe/Buddha-Field/all of it). And that is "true" in so far that there are psychedelic experiences that very much feel like that. But a partial truth, there is more to go, higher truths... Full Enlightenment/Deep Identity Change to full empty Nothingness. and pushing even further, see Video "Infinity of Gods (2)", OTHER Gods/Buddhafields. Or Infinity of Gods. Thats the utmost peak of that cul-de-sac, because: Oh no, there are OTHERS like "oneself". And an Infinity of them. An Infinity of Gods. Problem: Very Nondual and infinite and Oneness and being Ultimate Reality/Absolute indeed.... So, a (2) continuation of another partial truth (1). Not the end of the story, but something that can happen, depending on the path up the mountain. A direct experience, that needs to be unpacked and interpreted. And the final truth is: Full Enlightenment/Deep Identity Change to full empty Nothingness. No other. One without a second. And: Nothing further. The understanding that one fooled oneself in ingenious ways (like, the whole show, a rabbit hole infinitely deep...) , and the complexity how one fools oneself, comes included with Enlightenment (by definition). Its all appearance within oneself, all illusion. What would be necessary now,at (1) or (2), would be to fully die/transcend ones separate self-arisings, becoming fully impersonal and nothing/empty, realizing ones Deep Identity with Nothingness/Absolute Reality. And then one throws out (better: transcends, or spots fast enough while it arises in oneself and just cuts it off, automated-style) each and every subtle concept/feeling of oneself and of the Absolute/Reality, for the Absolute CONTAINS them all, but is NONE of them. The Absolute/Nothingness can only be described in negative language, of what it is not. In-finite. Not finite. Not measurable, not defineable. Reality itself. But for that, one needs normally a lot of time in these empty and impersonal states (if ones name is not Ramana, one probably does). So how much 5 MeO can a human take, and how empty of any form of separate self are these states really? The tried and true technique is and ever has been meditation, or transcending/dying of each and every arising of the separate-self (transcending, or spotting fast enough while it arises in oneself and just cuts it off, automated-style), delivering as much time in these empty impersonal states, the Portals of the Absolute, see one of my last posts, as necessary. By the way, I am in no way against psychedelics. Psychedelics plus meditation. So psychedelics alone remains a dangerous path with potential for ego/separate self-inflation, instead of full ego/separate-self transcedence/death, until spiritual culture fully gets to grips with these quite new phenomena of highly efficient psychedelics like 5 MeO and so on. But the psychedelic path is here, and it won't go away. We will see its challenges, disfunctions and trainwrecks, its sweetness for the ego to hijack it for narcicissm/solipsism/hybris and ego inflation, being explored first time in scale in broad daylight here in this forum. Probably until the end of our days. But also the vast potential of this path. Let's see if the dark side or the light side of the force prevails. I don't know, let's see. Probably a mix of both. In the longterm, the light side of the force prevails as always, simply because the Kosmos wants to grow in evolution/complexity/awakening to itself, but until then if history shows anything any misuse and f***up possible will be fully expored and savored by humanity. Until it finally gets it right. So: Show must go on. And I am waiting and looking forward very much for the first ever fully empty/impersonal/fully enlightened Alienmind walking here on earth on two legs, thinking and understanding the Kosmos/Reality in non-linear ways like never seen before in simple non-psychedelic-boosted human mind-streams. The content and aspects of that post is more elaborated in my previous posts. Selling Water by the River