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🤣🤣🤣 There is only one awakening and it is to what you are, and it is beyond non-dual. Nonduality is obvious, it implies that all reality is the same substance: reality, and that you are that reality. true awakening goes further, it involves the perception of what you are. completely forgetting experience, real perception is the substance, the immutable totality. dual or non-dual is irrelevant, non-existent even as an idea.

Here you can find my summary of Pointing out the Great Way/Mahamudra, based on how it developed for me, written in my own words based on my experiences/milestones: Which funnily developed pretty much like the book describes. So it was fascinating for me that the experiences developed very much in line how they were described for centuries in the Tibetan Mahamudra-tradition, delivered by a book of several hundred pages of descriptions. Talking about a sophisticated complex meditation system.... One of the main milestones, after which it continued developing, was the blue marked part below. That happened after around 10 years of meditation (which was not as efficient as possible (quite inefficient actually, that is why it took so long), since I didn't get a lot of stuff right straight away, and had no direct teacher). That milestone is where the awakened and nondual states starts to develop after some time. Afterwards I was hooked, and used all the other tools (like the always here timeless nature of the mind, its infinite and boundless and nondual nature, and finally its impersonal nature in stage 4) for developing Nonduality in Yoga of One Taste (stage 3 Mahamudra), and developing these nondual awakened states towards the pure impersonal and totally unseparated nature, conforming to the Reality of the enlightened Mindstream (stage 4, Yoga of Nonmeditation). Then Enlightenment can happen, but can't be forced. Enlightenment is an accident. Yoga of Nonmeditation makes very (!) accident-prone. On the path are I would say between 5-10 major cul-de-sacs or mistakes one can make, which can either be overcome with applying the right technique of Mahamudra/Dzogchen (or non-concentrative meditation), or with hardcore concentrative meditation (which works without all this sophisticated technique, but is as hard to pull off (discipline, hours on the pillow needed) as we probably all know. That is why we see more "Natural/ or enlightened-by-accident ones" and hardcore concentration meditation enlightened ones (Ingram, Yang, Burbea and the Theravada & Zen crew), but very few Mahamudra/Dzogchen enlightened ones, since that sophisticated system has not been planted fully in the West. I see its potential, and consider that (combined with psychedelics) as the future, since few people can actually pull of the natural style (by definition), or the hardcore concentrative meditation style. So lets see... And if that is not enough, here is some more of the Sales-by-the-River: https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Pointing out the Great Way &author=Water by the River Bon Voyage, good luck, and if you have further questions let me know.

Kundalini has changed a lot for me. Since awakening years ago, I went through a kind of psychosis phase where I lost a bit of touch with reality. I took medicine for it; it got better. I realized what was happening to me. Somehow, my past was trying to be realized within me. I took the path too seriously, got lost in thoughts of aliens and existential philosophy, and ended up drowning in my self-pity and hatred toward family. Fast-forward, I went deeper without trying to. No mew, I'm remembering old memories and feelings I had previously forgotten—things from my childhood that I would've never remembered and those feelings of being a child again. It's like I remember them like it's happening now. I think is happening because I realized what was happening and how to deal with my thoughts. I am also spending no time on things that make no sense and solely focusing on my own past and who I am. When I go to work or study, I feel like I can do those things just fine. When I'm alone, I focus inward and realize more and more. I'm willing to understand who I am and what's happened because none of it makes sense. I've been through some things, so it seems dangerous because facing those feelings is one of the most difficult things. Luckily, I'm still living at home and can talk about my experiences and memories that I'm thinking about. He doesn't know about Kundalini, though. I can feel the energy pulsating through my root chakra upward. Everything's changing. I'm understanding how I developed and the mistakes I made, which are helping me grow and develop. Spirituality is no longer about contemplating nonduality or existential things but about realizing who I am and asking bigger questions, like what happened when I was younger, since it seems like many things happened that I didn't understand.

Well..there is no one there but me ..I'm fully conscious of that..nothing else to do..I'm all alone by myself. But seriously..what is called "solipsism " is just the radical extension of nonduality &oneness to its ultimate conclusion. without your consciousness nothing exists .this is an axiom that cannot be denied in a fucking zillion years .

I'm currently studying philosophy at university, and I've got a few thoughts on the whole thing. First off, if you want to become an academic philosopher or even just get taken seriously by them, for sure, you've gotta jump through all their hoops and read thousands of pages by philosophers who aren't always the most interesting or deep. But hey, you do learn a lot in any case. It also really depends on your situation. I got super lucky. I'm basically studying philosophy for my own enjoyment, not trying to become an academic philosopher. I found a couple of professors at my uni who do stuff that interests me. One professor in particular is an absolute godsend. I never would've expected to find a guy like him at a university. He teaches a ton about Indian Philosophy, especially Sri Aurobindo, spent years in India when he was younger, and has been practicing Yoga for decades. He knows Indian philosophy inside out, but also has a great grasp on all of Western philosophy. He's always drawing parallels between Aurobindo, Hegel, Plato, Aristotle, Schelling, Nietzsche, Deleuze, Heidegger... every time I sit in one of his seminars, I'm scribbling like crazy, trying to get everything down. He's totally cool with me doing my master's and potentially my doctoral thesis on topics like psychedelics, nonduality, Ken Wilber, whatever, because he's into all that stuff himself. It's awesome. I can study the stuff that I find interesting and would want to read in my spare time anyway, and I'm getting academic credits for it at the same time. I'm pretty sure this guy is one of a kind in Europe, but who knows, maybe there are still a few old 68ers out there. Another reason I can do this is because university tuition is free in Austria. I definitely wouldn't be studying philosophy if it meant going several hundred thousand dollars in debt. But for me, it's a no-brainer. I get access to (some) great teachers, the library, university resources, etc. Yeah, I have to jump through a few hoops to get a degree, but apparently, I'm not mature enough yet to be productive without external validation, so the added pressure of doing well on exams is really helping me out. I'm getting a lot of work done and doing a lot of reading that I would otherwise never do. I get the chance to meet some interesting and like-minded people and do some networking. I get practice in writing and occasionally presenting in front of an audience. Plus, I'm a total history nerd and know Latin and Ancient Greek, so when there's stuff that I don't find philosophically satisfying, at least the history nerd in me can get some satisfaction. Some of the stuff they're doing at university is more interesting than others. It also depends on what you're into. If you like solving logical puzzles, analytical philosophy can be fun, and it's good mental exercise. It's just extremely limited in what it can do with its limited assumptions. So-called continental philosophy is more my thing. You've got more of the artsy types there, the phenomenologists, and more people who will take Eastern philosophy and/or spirituality seriously. But (almost) nobody there is actually interested in truth. They're interested in paying their bills and roleplaying as a university professor, and they do love their jargon for sure. At the same time, I wouldn't underestimate what going through a philosophy degree can do for you. Even if they're not really doing philosophy as in earnestly seeking truth - at least people there are more interesting to talk to and are generally able to think and express themselves in deeper and more nuanced ways than your average joe. I think Leo might be downplaying his own Bachelor's in philosophy a little. I have a feeling that his videos would be quite different had he not gone through that academic training. Sometimes it's not a bad idea to learn the rules first before you go breaking them. Even if you're pursuing enlightenment, it can't hurt to know how to put together a sound argument. If nothing else, it can help build discipline and work ethic if you are struggling with that. I've also found more stuff that's interesting and applicable in many more philosophers than I thought I would during my studies. Worst case scenario, it's useful to really know a position that you deeply disagree with. But in most cases, you can find great nuggets of wisdom in the work of almost any philosopher, some more, some less. I've learned some humility and realized that I've been a little too arrogant in dismissing some philosopher's ideas. There can be a real arrogance in forgetting the past and not considering other cultures, especially if you don't speak their language. So much gets lost in translation. Reading Plato or Aristotle in the original Greek is a whole different ball game to reading them in translation. Those translations are often garbage, and even the better ones miss out on so much that the text is barely intelligible anymore. No wonder many modern philosophers don't even consider reading Plato or Plotinus and dismiss it as nonsense. Apologies, I digress. Hope this has been some useful food for thought for you. I realize this all sounds very positive, but I think my circumstances might be pretty unique. I think in most cases I would advise against getting a philosophy degree, since it comes with a significant opportunity cost (time), and if we are talking about hundreds of thousands in tuition fees, I don't think that's worth it and you're probably better off trying to get educated on your own and/or find a good teacher outside of university. And if you're the kind of person who wants to play the academic game - I think you just KNOW. Some people just thrive like fish in water in that academic setting, and they couldn't imagine being anywhere else. I can actually spot many similarities with protected workspaces for mentally disabled people in the way that these academics are separated from the real world, nobody knows what's going on inside their ivory tower, and even if one of them comes out and tries to communicate with the common masses, nobody understands them. It can be a bit like a protected workplace for people with above average cognitive intelligence, especially in the humanities I guess.

From what I have seen/read, they both state "Infinite Reality". Totality of Existence in Artems language. And more than enough Infinity in Franks language. I personally prefer another style of language, but I don't have the impression they reject oneness, or Infinite Reality, or Nondual boundless Being. True Nonduality is Oneness. And to throw away the concept of Oneness: One without a second.

Another one on the difference between nonduality and solipsism. I just can't 🤣

My friend made a video after having the Nonduality round table where it was a gathering of "enlightened masters" looks like he had addressed Artem here is the exact timestamp:

Very good. Your post is probably so "way out" that it didn't receive much response, although it being the most interesting one since its posting. Actually, "You" didn't loose "it". Just some clouds appeared that made what you called "deep sleep" a bit harder to directly "perceive/realize" beyond the clouds. Its always there. YOU are that Infinite Being containing the show of duality and nonduality, awakening and sleeping. That impersonal Infinite Reality beyond the "event-horizon" which is so infinite that no "movement" of focus/mind/thought/appearance/perception/I,me,mine-arising can ever get "there". And That Infinite Reality beyond this "event horizon" where small you "can't go" is constant and changeless. That contains all the states of illusion and realizing/awakening, which roll "before"/"within" its Infinite Being. THAT "you" can never loose. Or gain. THAT never changes, because change is contained in it, its expression or modulation. And THAT is absolute freedom & love & bliss. Infinite Liberation. Who are you again? Did you EVER loose yourself (really)?

Now you understand just how much spiritual fantasy all this enlightenment, nonduality, freedom from suffering, unconditional happiness is. Yet more human games. God slapped you around and humbled you a bit, which is great. God is still way beyond your comprehension and state of consciousness still dictates your life. This is a healthy dose of reality. Beware of happy spiritual fantasies of bliss and all that. But also, don't get nihilistic and cynical either. What happened to you is that you acquired an attachment (your son), and now you see how powerful attachment is. And now you can appreciate why every other human is so attached.

@Past-Philosopher-562 I have videos that explain how God-Realization is different from nonduality. Search for my God-Realization video. Beyond that it will require a course, which I have planned but my health slows me down.

@Leo Gura Apparently , I am not keeping up with you progress . You are now beyond nonduality . Intresting . would offer us the youtube videos you explain this leaps you have made .

@questionreality I don't listen to any human speaking about spirituality because it is all human nonsense. Nonduality is a narrow state of consciousness humans invented. I have explained this plenty by now. You are dreaming nonduality. There's nothing more to explain. Get it or don't.

This is the TRAP of nonduality!!!

They are both, and I will explain it clearly, without the Leo error of: you are imagining reality. you are the absolute in a relative experience. You are the absolute because you are the total infinite, and you are relative because you are the total infinite taking a form among infinite forms. On the surface you are limited by all the other infinite forms of reality, which being infinite cannot not take infinite forms, but just below the surface of the form you are the total infinite abyss. That abyss is exactly the same in me, in you, in a dog and in an atom. It is the absolute. To cleanse the doors of perception is to see through the veil of form and open yourself completely to the abyss, which is unthinkable. Nonduality is superficial, Leo is right, but he is wrong because he mixes the absolute with the relative. His opening is not clean, he maintains much, or part, of the "Leo" form, with what for him is a consciousness that is imagining or projecting images. This is absolutely wrong, dual, egocentric and limited .all forms are absolute dimensions, holons, and all are the absolute beneath the surface. awakening, or enlightenment, is the clear awareness of the absolute without the veil of form. Awareness, or conciousness is always the case, it's a continuous. But it is always limited by the form. Enlightenment is unlimited reality concious of itself. Why form is relative and infinity absolute? Because the form is impermanent. It's circumstance, change, limited, and the infinity is immutable, absolute . Encompass all change, then, there is zero change. Reality is self-conscious, therefore, it is always aware of itself. So, if the form is a guy chased by a pride of lions, reality will be aware of that absorbing form. If you eliminate the lions and are able to make the form more and more tenuous until it becomes absolutely transparent, consciousness, which is always the case because reality entails consciousness, will perceive the absolute, what you are. and this is extremely challenging, because it is infinite. It is not something normal, as Spira and Ralston say, they are limited, they do not know what they are talking about. It is something from another dimension: the unlimited dimension, and "you" as form are used to the limited dimension. Leo gets this right, it's much deeper, infinitely deeper.

But God is infinite imagination. So realizing it's all pretending to be, is the KEY thing to realize about God. As I said elswhere, the real God-Realization is seeing how you construct all of your reality. That's the real awakening, beyond nonduality and enlightenment. Just because you have some enlightenment does not mean you are conscious of how you are imagining everything and everyone around you. That's requires a whole lot more consciousness.

How would you define enlightenment? I would do it like this: reality perceiving itself without obstacles. nonduality is an obstacle, it says: I perceive everything as one. It is already something, it is an identification, an idea about reality: it is non-dual. is limited Enlightenment is deeper, it's not seeing that everything is one, it's seeing what is everything.

Nonduality doesn't mean Enlightenment. For Enlightenment to happen, Nonduality (or nondual states) have to ripen normally for a looooong time, for most (according to the traditions 100s to 1000s of hours), to get rid off the "Nondual-Realizer"-identity-arisings towards Impersonal Infinite Nondual Being/Infinite Consciousness without any remaining filter/lense/identity. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nonduality&author=Water by the River Leo doesn't differentiate between Nonduality and Enlightenment (although most sophisticated meditation traditions do, pretty much all of the more sophisticated Budhdist traditions like Mahamudra, Dzogchen and also Zen - Kensho vs. Enlightenment. A Kensho IS nondual but a looong way from Enlightenment), nor seem to care about the difference. His God-Realization is in between mere Nonduality with a nondual-Realizer-Identity and True Enlightenment, see link above. Since he can't imagine Enlightenment in any way (if he could he would be enlightened), he happily just throws the baby (Enlightenment) out with the bathwater (Nonduality) and rejoices with "God-Realization". Strange that the God-Realization seems to suck annoyingly often when sobre... but never mind, no problem, no problemo, pas de problème... that Enlightenment is the end of suffering is bullshit anyway, because... hey... it would mean I gotta practice and am not the most you know what. @BlessedLion Seems you have to be happy with the one-liner or two-liner answers. Putting Nonduality and Buddhism and Enlightenment together in one box and dismissing all of it is in my view an unsophisticated and reductionistic perspective. But apparently useful for some... Selling "the flair of spiritual still dark ages by the River"

The issue is deeper than you imagine: Nonduality is maya.

See this group on Facebook. And I think you can find on Reddit people discussing it too. I’m on phone now so it’s a bit tricky to dig everything out. But not only did he cheated on his wife, he seemingly is DATING one of the student he cheated with. Also, he had a big fall-out with his teacher Francis Lucille. Altho, they tried to do PR by recently doing a podcast together. https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/comments/1cbipcf/rupert_spira_francis_lucille_podcast_episode/ Sorry for the messy text. I’m on phone and on the go so it’s hard to properly organize everything.

@Miguel1 So It seems nonduality doesn't save you from having a dick

That's right. I have developed a deep disdain for nondual teachings because of how badly they mischaracterize and mislead about the nature of consciousness. It's downright shameful and I wasted so much time trusting such people when in the end it turned out to be yet more human BS. But I am also sick of trying to explain it to you guys. Live with your human nonduality all you want. One of my biggest mistakes was trying to teach people who are not actually interested in serious learning. And trying to convince them of things. Arguing with nondualists or trying to teach them anything is the biggest waste of time.

Nonduality is too simple because it is ultimately wrong. Nonduality is not God-Realization. Nonduality does not explain God. I have experienced God so deeply that you cannot fathom it. And what spiritual people talk about is not it.

Non duality from Africa. First time I have heard it from this source

There is no difference between illusory vs Real. As long as my mom appears real in front of my eyes ..then she is real . There is no difference between the Leo I say on my IPhone and the Leo I see in my dreams . That's what nonduality means .the collapsing of the duality between real vs illusory must break down at the end . Deep down I know that I'm the only one here . But it's just more beneficial pragmatically speaking to deal with others as real as long as they "appear " real. So solipsism is true ..but useless.