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Animals have self-preservation instinct. That's identity. You must have a sense of self in order to relate to the sense of other. Without the sense of self you're in nonduality. And you can't function. You're just absorbed into everything motionless samadhi. Coma. Whatever you wanna call it. You couldn't even maintain the body for long in that state. You'd go mahasamadhi.

- Others - Free will - Meaning&purpose - Reality - Truth - Enlightenment - Consciousness - The Absolute - "Awakened" - "a concept" - "a human" - "an illusion" Basically everything that has an opposite, which can be described (or at least "meaningfully" attempted), which is a concept even though it may be expressed as "not a concept", that's still a concept. If someone claims any of those above exclusively, seperates it from something of "lesser order", or claims that it is more real/important, this creates a distinction, some kind of (subtle) exclusion which means that it still remains in the realm of concepts and therefore human(?) illusions. So it's illusions all the way down, even the so called "non-illusions" that are talked about in spirituality or nonduality. All words, all concepts, all empty. Nothing is real, nothing remains, only everchenanging Isness is. Whatever the hell that is. No one knows

My heart wants to write something. If blue was the only color that exists, you would not know what blue is. We need contrast to know blue. Similary for God to know himself he needs a contrast and the duality was born. Duality is essential to existence. Yin and yang is the the fundamental principle of existence. Nothing exists without it. And yet yin and yang is one thing. There is no duality between duality and nonduality. Duality and nonduality are one. They are not one after another, not more true than the other, they are one inside each other. Like a snake eating its own tale. Or like an infinity symbol.

But doesn’t the simplest possibility make the most sense? Occam’s Razor. Wouldn’t no apparent perceiver with no perception be the simplest? Every nonduality forum I go on nobody can answer this- but it seems very fundamental

Very nice description. According to Ingram, Yang and Thisdell, enough of these will make the survival of any remaining separate-self-lenses quite challenging. That enormous "place" without time, space, anything at all, not even nothing, is always right here, right now. Eternally or timelessly so. It is not in time. Daniel Brown commented that Nagarjuna & company (the guys who sparked the Nondual Revolution in Buddhism, from early Buddhism and its cessation as summum bonum towards Mahayanas True Nonduality, or always right here Enlightenment/liberation, even when the visual field arises) said that the Dissolution/cessation experience presupposes time. Before cessation, after cessation. And time is a construct. That vastness/Infinite Reality/"place, non-place" is always right here. "Before" and "after" cessation arises "in" It.

Nonduality is not Enlightenment. That comes way later (at least for most). „With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream.“ ““Your physical body, composed of the four basic elements, can’t hear or understand this preaching. The empty-space can’t understand this preaching. Then what is it that hears and understands?” Meditate fully and directly on these words. Take hold of this koan as though wielding the jewelsword of the Vajra king. Cut down whatever appears in the mind. When the thoughts of mundane matters arise, cut them off. When notions of Buddhism arise, likewise lop them off. In short, destroy all ideas, whether of realization, of Buddhas, or of devils, and all day long pursue the question “What is it that hears this preaching?” When you have eradicated every conception until only emptiness remains, and then cut through even the emptiness, your mind will burst open and that which hears will manifest itself. Persevere, persevere—never quit halfway—until you reach the point where you feel as though you have risen from the dead. Only then will you be able to wholly resolve the momentous question, “What is it that hears this preaching?” Bassui So what is it that believes that over here is anything not liberated

Ten years ago, I had a terrible experience with psychedelics. I was with a friend who has many religious traumas because of his mother, who dealt with witchcraft and religions linked to entities, etc. During the experience, my friend experienced a possession. He screamed and thrashed around (almost destroyed my car). I'm not religious, but at that moment, I was able to exorcise him in the name of Jesus. After that experience, my life became quite challenging. I began to suffer from depression and other problems. In the days following the experience, I really considered and feared this idea of demons and entities. I thought that perhaps I might have absorbed something negative due to the openness provided by psychedelics and the type of energy present in the setting. Today, I am more connected with medicine, psychiatry, health in general, and nonduality to deal with the suffering that still occurs. However, at times, I still become curious about the possibility of dealing with an entity or demon. In some subsequent psychedelic experiences, I quickly perceived something very negative hidden in my energy field. I'm not sure of anything and would even like to dismiss this possibility. However, I prefer to be speculative and open-minded in my healing process. I appreciate everyone who can contribute information. This is a very sensitive topic for me, so please, if you don't have enough maturity and competence to comment on it, avoid posting. This is a friendly and honest request.

@Leo Gura I wonder why you have called nondualists out in the past so viciously. Won't a completely nondual awakening be absolutely fantastic? That's what we're all looking for! I think the truth seeking human, on a feeling level, is really after this. So Leo, even though you have seen higher truths than nonduality, so what? Or do you believe that having a completely awakening is still a recipe for devilery, even when combined with your entire body of work? Why go Alien X? It might be true but why not get us all to nondual awakening first? This is very confusing. And yes I very much love Leo and his work and this community ❤️

No. When one knows that the nature of every single I-thought/I-feeling/"building-block" of the separate-self-illusion, they arise and evaporate in Infinite Being. Since they are an illusion. They arise, one looks into their nature (Suchness, mere appearance), and they stop/evaporate. That is the essence of Trekchö (Dzogchen). And with that comes the understanding that these arisings were illusions all along, appearing in Infinite Being. So these arisings of the separate-self evaporate (or "burn") in the nature of True Being (which is pure groundless infinite emptiness/vastness in which the world and the separate-self-illusions arise/appear), and are no longer bought into. Then, all of that is just cut off (if nothing needs to be done by the character), or one lets the character do its thing in clarity (technical Mahamudra-term) where the mindfulness (another technical Mahamudra-term) of the nature of the mindstream (thought and feeling-stream) as mere empty (mere appearing) arisings is not broken. In summary: The separate self is seen through because Awareness is strong enough (aka each and any separate-self building block/concept has been seen through) and fast enough (these arisings get very fast, 20+ arisings per seconds or something I would guess before the loop closes) to cut off the illusion in real-time. And then Infinite Being/Infinite Consciousness "can close the loop" and understand itself. And the "understander" of that is another separate-self-illusion, which gets cut off also (Cluster of sensations/thoughts claiming ownership of other clusters of sensations/thoughts/feelings). And then, the Infinite Totality can understand itself. Which is the death of the separate-self, because the illusion is just no longer believed. So Absolute Reality (totally empty nature) burns & kills the separate-self, quite literally. But since that was just an appearing illusion, nothing more than an illusion is lost. And all of that is not a funny idea, a nice story, fancy concepts. It is actually the death of what you thought you were. Sayonara separate-illusion-character, hello Infinite Being. Infinite Being, which was "there" all along, since there is nothing else, but cosplaying as a illusionary separate-something-arising appearing within itself and giving rise to buying-into-that-appearances, aka I-thoughts I-feelings). And one doesn't "overlook" that death of the illusion. And it comes with huge spacious vastness (infinite boundlessness) of Nonduality appearing in Infinite eternal Being/Infinite Consciousness. When each arising in the mindstream and each appearance of the visual field ("world") is seen as mere groundless appearance (empty, mere lucid appearing, not solid, not "out there") happening within ones True Infinite Being, and no stories/concepts are made out of that (since these are just more concept-arisings appearing "within" IT, made of IT/suchness). And on top as the icing on the cake comes huge waves of Sat-Chit-Ananda whenever Infinite Awake Nondual Being is not clouded by the separate-self-illusion-cloud and its contraction. And everything else is just varying degrees of cyclic misery/suffering/contraction/duality, going round in circles in its latest pet-project to release the contraction/suffering of that illusion. With best regards from the separate-self illusion. Bassui in Kapleau, 3 Pillars of Zen: Your Buddha-nature is like the jewel-sword of the Vajara king: whoever touches it is killed.Or is it like a massive, raging fire: everything within reach loses its life. Once you realize your True-nature, all evil bent of mind arising from karma extending over innumerable years past is instantly annihilated, like snow put into a roaring furnace. Letting it burn by the River

Ok interesting. So would you say that doing this work Nonduality is only one of the first stops before going further and deeper, so to speak? I feel that as I do this work, reality is nondual, hence the post and title. What I mean by that is everything is an infinite "I Am", God is an infinite shapeshifter into different "I Ams". But yeah there's probably much more to it than this. I just put that in my post cause I think sometimes I sound like an asshole when I take a critical stance on Leo just for the sake of argument 😁

🤣🤣🤣 There is only one awakening and it is to what you are, and it is beyond non-dual. Nonduality is obvious, it implies that all reality is the same substance: reality, and that you are that reality. true awakening goes further, it involves the perception of what you are. completely forgetting experience, real perception is the substance, the immutable totality. dual or non-dual is irrelevant, non-existent even as an idea.

Here you can find my summary of Pointing out the Great Way/Mahamudra, based on how it developed for me, written in my own words based on my experiences/milestones: Which funnily developed pretty much like the book describes. So it was fascinating for me that the experiences developed very much in line how they were described for centuries in the Tibetan Mahamudra-tradition, delivered by a book of several hundred pages of descriptions. Talking about a sophisticated complex meditation system.... One of the main milestones, after which it continued developing, was the blue marked part below. That happened after around 10 years of meditation (which was not as efficient as possible (quite inefficient actually, that is why it took so long), since I didn't get a lot of stuff right straight away, and had no direct teacher). That milestone is where the awakened and nondual states starts to develop after some time. Afterwards I was hooked, and used all the other tools (like the always here timeless nature of the mind, its infinite and boundless and nondual nature, and finally its impersonal nature in stage 4) for developing Nonduality in Yoga of One Taste (stage 3 Mahamudra), and developing these nondual awakened states towards the pure impersonal and totally unseparated nature, conforming to the Reality of the enlightened Mindstream (stage 4, Yoga of Nonmeditation). Then Enlightenment can happen, but can't be forced. Enlightenment is an accident. Yoga of Nonmeditation makes very (!) accident-prone. On the path are I would say between 5-10 major cul-de-sacs or mistakes one can make, which can either be overcome with applying the right technique of Mahamudra/Dzogchen (or non-concentrative meditation), or with hardcore concentrative meditation (which works without all this sophisticated technique, but is as hard to pull off (discipline, hours on the pillow needed) as we probably all know. That is why we see more "Natural/ or enlightened-by-accident ones" and hardcore concentration meditation enlightened ones (Ingram, Yang, Burbea and the Theravada & Zen crew), but very few Mahamudra/Dzogchen enlightened ones, since that sophisticated system has not been planted fully in the West. I see its potential, and consider that (combined with psychedelics) as the future, since few people can actually pull of the natural style (by definition), or the hardcore concentrative meditation style. So lets see... And if that is not enough, here is some more of the Sales-by-the-River: https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Pointing out the Great Way &author=Water by the River Bon Voyage, good luck, and if you have further questions let me know.

Kundalini has changed a lot for me. Since awakening years ago, I went through a kind of psychosis phase where I lost a bit of touch with reality. I took medicine for it; it got better. I realized what was happening to me. Somehow, my past was trying to be realized within me. I took the path too seriously, got lost in thoughts of aliens and existential philosophy, and ended up drowning in my self-pity and hatred toward family. Fast-forward, I went deeper without trying to. No mew, I'm remembering old memories and feelings I had previously forgotten—things from my childhood that I would've never remembered and those feelings of being a child again. It's like I remember them like it's happening now. I think is happening because I realized what was happening and how to deal with my thoughts. I am also spending no time on things that make no sense and solely focusing on my own past and who I am. When I go to work or study, I feel like I can do those things just fine. When I'm alone, I focus inward and realize more and more. I'm willing to understand who I am and what's happened because none of it makes sense. I've been through some things, so it seems dangerous because facing those feelings is one of the most difficult things. Luckily, I'm still living at home and can talk about my experiences and memories that I'm thinking about. He doesn't know about Kundalini, though. I can feel the energy pulsating through my root chakra upward. Everything's changing. I'm understanding how I developed and the mistakes I made, which are helping me grow and develop. Spirituality is no longer about contemplating nonduality or existential things but about realizing who I am and asking bigger questions, like what happened when I was younger, since it seems like many things happened that I didn't understand.

Well..there is no one there but me ..I'm fully conscious of that..nothing else to do..I'm all alone by myself. But seriously..what is called "solipsism " is just the radical extension of nonduality &oneness to its ultimate conclusion. without your consciousness nothing exists .this is an axiom that cannot be denied in a fucking zillion years .

I'm currently studying philosophy at university, and I've got a few thoughts on the whole thing. First off, if you want to become an academic philosopher or even just get taken seriously by them, for sure, you've gotta jump through all their hoops and read thousands of pages by philosophers who aren't always the most interesting or deep. But hey, you do learn a lot in any case. It also really depends on your situation. I got super lucky. I'm basically studying philosophy for my own enjoyment, not trying to become an academic philosopher. I found a couple of professors at my uni who do stuff that interests me. One professor in particular is an absolute godsend. I never would've expected to find a guy like him at a university. He teaches a ton about Indian Philosophy, especially Sri Aurobindo, spent years in India when he was younger, and has been practicing Yoga for decades. He knows Indian philosophy inside out, but also has a great grasp on all of Western philosophy. He's always drawing parallels between Aurobindo, Hegel, Plato, Aristotle, Schelling, Nietzsche, Deleuze, Heidegger... every time I sit in one of his seminars, I'm scribbling like crazy, trying to get everything down. He's totally cool with me doing my master's and potentially my doctoral thesis on topics like psychedelics, nonduality, Ken Wilber, whatever, because he's into all that stuff himself. It's awesome. I can study the stuff that I find interesting and would want to read in my spare time anyway, and I'm getting academic credits for it at the same time. I'm pretty sure this guy is one of a kind in Europe, but who knows, maybe there are still a few old 68ers out there. Another reason I can do this is because university tuition is free in Austria. I definitely wouldn't be studying philosophy if it meant going several hundred thousand dollars in debt. But for me, it's a no-brainer. I get access to (some) great teachers, the library, university resources, etc. Yeah, I have to jump through a few hoops to get a degree, but apparently, I'm not mature enough yet to be productive without external validation, so the added pressure of doing well on exams is really helping me out. I'm getting a lot of work done and doing a lot of reading that I would otherwise never do. I get the chance to meet some interesting and like-minded people and do some networking. I get practice in writing and occasionally presenting in front of an audience. Plus, I'm a total history nerd and know Latin and Ancient Greek, so when there's stuff that I don't find philosophically satisfying, at least the history nerd in me can get some satisfaction. Some of the stuff they're doing at university is more interesting than others. It also depends on what you're into. If you like solving logical puzzles, analytical philosophy can be fun, and it's good mental exercise. It's just extremely limited in what it can do with its limited assumptions. So-called continental philosophy is more my thing. You've got more of the artsy types there, the phenomenologists, and more people who will take Eastern philosophy and/or spirituality seriously. But (almost) nobody there is actually interested in truth. They're interested in paying their bills and roleplaying as a university professor, and they do love their jargon for sure. At the same time, I wouldn't underestimate what going through a philosophy degree can do for you. Even if they're not really doing philosophy as in earnestly seeking truth - at least people there are more interesting to talk to and are generally able to think and express themselves in deeper and more nuanced ways than your average joe. I think Leo might be downplaying his own Bachelor's in philosophy a little. I have a feeling that his videos would be quite different had he not gone through that academic training. Sometimes it's not a bad idea to learn the rules first before you go breaking them. Even if you're pursuing enlightenment, it can't hurt to know how to put together a sound argument. If nothing else, it can help build discipline and work ethic if you are struggling with that. I've also found more stuff that's interesting and applicable in many more philosophers than I thought I would during my studies. Worst case scenario, it's useful to really know a position that you deeply disagree with. But in most cases, you can find great nuggets of wisdom in the work of almost any philosopher, some more, some less. I've learned some humility and realized that I've been a little too arrogant in dismissing some philosopher's ideas. There can be a real arrogance in forgetting the past and not considering other cultures, especially if you don't speak their language. So much gets lost in translation. Reading Plato or Aristotle in the original Greek is a whole different ball game to reading them in translation. Those translations are often garbage, and even the better ones miss out on so much that the text is barely intelligible anymore. No wonder many modern philosophers don't even consider reading Plato or Plotinus and dismiss it as nonsense. Apologies, I digress. Hope this has been some useful food for thought for you. I realize this all sounds very positive, but I think my circumstances might be pretty unique. I think in most cases I would advise against getting a philosophy degree, since it comes with a significant opportunity cost (time), and if we are talking about hundreds of thousands in tuition fees, I don't think that's worth it and you're probably better off trying to get educated on your own and/or find a good teacher outside of university. And if you're the kind of person who wants to play the academic game - I think you just KNOW. Some people just thrive like fish in water in that academic setting, and they couldn't imagine being anywhere else. I can actually spot many similarities with protected workspaces for mentally disabled people in the way that these academics are separated from the real world, nobody knows what's going on inside their ivory tower, and even if one of them comes out and tries to communicate with the common masses, nobody understands them. It can be a bit like a protected workplace for people with above average cognitive intelligence, especially in the humanities I guess.

Non duality from Africa. First time I have heard it from this source

From what I have seen/read, they both state "Infinite Reality". Totality of Existence in Artems language. And more than enough Infinity in Franks language. I personally prefer another style of language, but I don't have the impression they reject oneness, or Infinite Reality, or Nondual boundless Being. True Nonduality is Oneness. And to throw away the concept of Oneness: One without a second.

Another one on the difference between nonduality and solipsism. I just can't 🤣

My friend made a video after having the Nonduality round table where it was a gathering of "enlightened masters" looks like he had addressed Artem here is the exact timestamp:

Very good. Your post is probably so "way out" that it didn't receive much response, although it being the most interesting one since its posting. Actually, "You" didn't loose "it". Just some clouds appeared that made what you called "deep sleep" a bit harder to directly "perceive/realize" beyond the clouds. Its always there. YOU are that Infinite Being containing the show of duality and nonduality, awakening and sleeping. That impersonal Infinite Reality beyond the "event-horizon" which is so infinite that no "movement" of focus/mind/thought/appearance/perception/I,me,mine-arising can ever get "there". And That Infinite Reality beyond this "event horizon" where small you "can't go" is constant and changeless. That contains all the states of illusion and realizing/awakening, which roll "before"/"within" its Infinite Being. THAT "you" can never loose. Or gain. THAT never changes, because change is contained in it, its expression or modulation. And THAT is absolute freedom & love & bliss. Infinite Liberation. Who are you again? Did you EVER loose yourself (really)?

Now you understand just how much spiritual fantasy all this enlightenment, nonduality, freedom from suffering, unconditional happiness is. Yet more human games. God slapped you around and humbled you a bit, which is great. God is still way beyond your comprehension and state of consciousness still dictates your life. This is a healthy dose of reality. Beware of happy spiritual fantasies of bliss and all that. But also, don't get nihilistic and cynical either. What happened to you is that you acquired an attachment (your son), and now you see how powerful attachment is. And now you can appreciate why every other human is so attached.

@Past-Philosopher-562 I have videos that explain how God-Realization is different from nonduality. Search for my God-Realization video. Beyond that it will require a course, which I have planned but my health slows me down.

@Leo Gura Apparently , I am not keeping up with you progress . You are now beyond nonduality . Intresting . would offer us the youtube videos you explain this leaps you have made .

@questionreality I don't listen to any human speaking about spirituality because it is all human nonsense. Nonduality is a narrow state of consciousness humans invented. I have explained this plenty by now. You are dreaming nonduality. There's nothing more to explain. Get it or don't.

This is the TRAP of nonduality!!!