Search the Community

Perception never changes. İt is nonduality = love. There is no such thing as world. You are in heaven.

Hey Leo, and others Have you looked in IFS, which is the latest, most formalized version of Shadow Work? I feel a lot of people involved here can benefit from this framework. It's as close as psychotherapy can come to nonduality and still be practically useful. It'd be great to get your perspective on it.

That's true... you are right. Nonduality, sad, and funny at the same time hehe...

I already did. He told me that from now on I don't ever have to worry about being late again, and that I can just relax and stay home tomorrow, and the day after that, and also the day after that. Nonduality ftw!

Nice. This is exactly what many of our fellow Duality-denying spiritual bypassers on here are missing. Untiy expresses itself through (the appearance of) non-unity. Without the appearance of form/division/contrast/multilicity, the unity of the whole could not be experienced and recognized. Duality and nonduality are simply two sides of the same coin. And they are both perfect, beautiful and divine.

Ten years ago, I had a terrible experience with psychedelics. I was with a friend who has many religious traumas because of his mother, who dealt with witchcraft and religions linked to entities, etc. During the experience, my friend experienced a possession. He screamed and thrashed around (almost destroyed my car). I'm not religious, but at that moment, I was able to exorcise him in the name of Jesus. After that experience, my life became quite challenging. I began to suffer from depression and other problems. In the days following the experience, I really considered and feared this idea of demons and entities. I thought that perhaps I might have absorbed something negative due to the openness provided by psychedelics and the type of energy present in the setting. Today, I am more connected with medicine, psychiatry, health in general, and nonduality to deal with the suffering that still occurs. However, at times, I still become curious about the possibility of dealing with an entity or demon. In some subsequent psychedelic experiences, I quickly perceived something very negative hidden in my energy field. I'm not sure of anything and would even like to dismiss this possibility. However, I prefer to be speculative and open-minded in my healing process. I appreciate everyone who can contribute information. This is a very sensitive topic for me, so please, if you don't have enough maturity and competence to comment on it, avoid posting. This is a friendly and honest request.

Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahamudra "literally means "great seal" or "great imprint" and refers to the fact that "all phenomena inevitably are stamped by the fact of wisdom and emptiness inseparable". Aka mere empty "imagined" appearances, not existing "out there" but within the Infinite vastness of True Being/Universal Consciousness as mere appearance in this nondual field, not as external objects "out there", aka duality. There is a lot of cultural lingo in Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism, that I didn't understand in the beginning, like why they called it Great Seal. Or Emptiness. Or dependend origination. Or Middle Way. Or No Self. Proto-Mahamudra was imported from India around the 10 century, so the term comes probably from India and is used there also. Daniel Brown once said Mahamudra (for example in his book Pointing out the Great Way) is best for Awakening, and then adding Dzogchen-Methods (the books he translated later, kind of a collection of best of Tibetan Buddhism selected by 33rd Menri Trizin. Mahamudra as explained in Pointing out the Great Way = a nearly mathematical step by step method towards Awakening (Nondual Infinite Field at least temporarily seen by impersonal Awareness itself, but some very subtle processes/filters/lenses still clouding full realization). Before that comes Nonduality (or One Taste), or a separate-self (or ET) merging in Unity with the Infinite Field (of earthly or alien form). Dzogchen = Great Perfection, or the path that completes path to Enlightenment. Or fully ripened Awakened Awareness/Awakening, no clusters of separate-self arisings not transcended/seen through/still clouding Impersonal Infinite Being/Awareness. In my perspective the by far most sophisticated and fastest meditation methods (Mahamudra+Dzogchen) on the planet. Nearly all other methods/systems/techniques/traditions are found within these methods one way or the other, but not the other way round. Selling the Great Seal by the River

Feels like coming home, doesn't it? Or like drowning in the River, killing "me" softly... Forgive me some comments, but here are some practices that helped me a lot at that stage to make that Nondual Awakening nice&stable: The only missing ingridients are letting these states of Infinite Nondual Awakend Awareness ripen (they ripen by themself since the illusion has become instable. The path starts showing itself to itself now). Yet, one can put a blow-torch (Nonmeditation-Yoga in Mahamudra for example, see below) on the remnants of the illusion, to evaporate them faster... At some point, the only illusion still arising is the "one" of the one realizing all of that ("realizing" Nonduality and mere imagined appearance and so on). Then, the Impersonal Infinite Totality can wake up to itself, exactly when the "one/personal individuality/being separate/former separate-self" is seen through as mere concept/persistant illusion, a bundle of ideas/concepts/I-thoughts/I-feelings, and never having been anything more than that - and then the illusion drops away, being replaced by the Infinite Vastness of True Being/Reality, realizing itself as it truly is. That happens when every thought/feeling/and appearance of the "outer" world is realized as mere appearance hovering in Infinite Nondual Vastness/Being/Nothingnes/Emptiness. Then IT can be realized. And realizing that despite the illusion of separation has been appearing (as illusion), THIS Infinite Being/Reality/Universal Mind has always been the case, despite being temporarily been covered by coulds of separation-illusion/ignorance. There are teachings for speeding up that process (ripening from Nonduality (Yoga of One Taste in Mahamudra) with remnants of a separate-self to true impersonal Infinite Being/Reality (Nonmeditation Yoga in Mahamudra). I found these very helpful. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nonmeditation yoga&author=Water by the River Pretty sold out by the River

Not two. Oneness (or a Unity experience of being one with the visual field and all arisings) easily leads to the "I am God", a merging/Unity experience. Oneness basically is Nonduality, which can be had as Unity experience with a subtle identity still well and alive, hijacking the nondual state. Which is then not true Nonduality with the center/identity fully transcended/seen through/gone, but a nonduality/unity experience hijacked and misinterpreted by a remaining subtle separate-self, which basically leads to continued suffering/resistance because its not fully seen through/transcended/cut off in real time. Oneness is still one too many... Not understanding this (but thinking one understands it) is basically to a large part the Leitmotiv of this lovely place here... And since this can only be understood once it fully happens, ones soul either intuits that truth and goes for it, or doesn't and goes happily exploring ET & company, and yours truly has to be happy with Selling Water by the River ... which he luckily is absolutely content with. PS: The nondual/oneness trap:

This is a different type of AMA - Answer Me Anything Is Oneness or Not-twoness the better pointer to the Truth? Or perhaps some other term or thing or event is better pointer. Seeking the greatest pointer. 👉 Perhaps also, why? But you can just tell me which one and not explain why if you dont want to.

You sound completely human, babe. Don't play into the fantasy youre not human. Yeah, I called you babe. What a chad. When you absorb yourself in a lot of nonduality content you start speaking like that. I was like that years ago on my journey, just spitting the facts for others. You are the one who is trying to understand with the mind, and you have even believed you did understand thats why you're explaining to me. Whats so hard to understand about the notion that you do have a choice whether to stop a rape or not. Im not even talking about the nature of reality, but about my own self. Do Not Tell Me that I cant know my own experience, thats everything I know. You are explaining away something that cannot be explained and teling me that I'm doing that. I want you to know that Ive read and watched probably most and even more of the content that you have, so you cannot blow my mind with anything you say. I will not think you are deep, because I am not hearing anything original from you. You have a very single coloured understanding at best of the truth of not twoness. If its One doesnt mean its just one color. And here in the nonspiritual section, we are completely talking within the frame of duality and relationships, but you are trying to seep in nonduality into it, normalising rape in the process. You also keep flipping. First everything is unconditional love, now everything is included in unconditional love. Refer to my canvas and painting comment from earlier. We are here talking completely about the painting on the canvas, we are not exploring the canvas. Thats for the other section of the forums. So I dont get why you are arguing.

ahh shit is it just semantics, or do you think there is something different between solipsism and nonduality? when I think of solipsism, I guess what I’m thinking of is my own ego being everything. so that’s what, I believe, alien consciousness would disprove.

Brad warner talked about this. “nonduality” wasn’t really a thing 2500 years ago. the thing the Buddha was saying doesn’t exist is what we would call ego. Zen and Advaita began the true self doctrine about a thousand years after the Buddha died

Unfortunately not on youtube, but on audible: Shift into Freedom by Loch Kelly One of my favourite practical books on nonduality so far

Thank you, I appreciate. I also appreciate the time you took to have a more detailed answer in my journal where I go into more depth of why I feel hesitant with Turquoise. I agree, I always felt like Turquoise felt more vague compared to the other spiral stages since there isn't as many examples of Turquoise and because most of the examples that are there if I remember correctly had to do with nonduality, meditation, spirituality etc. while the other stages had examples in spirituality, economics, media, pop culture, etc. And that's understandable because the world has yet to evolve that much. I guess that's another thing that I'm coming up against where I feel like *let's not fix something that isn't broken* in reaction to growing from yellow and green because humans grow with their environment and influence their environment to grow and vice versa so it feels like I'm trying to adapt to something that doesn't really exist yet on a wider scale. I was using the spiral much more so to track my growth over the last few years and I also find myself hitting against a wall to where even though I resonate with green and yellow, I have worked through my own kinks and limitting beliefs to where I don't really resonate with the excesses and unhealthy manifestations associated with the stages, hence why to peg myself more accurately, I have been focussing on lines of development instead and taking that information loosely. As for the hardcore spiritual work, I guess for me it would be good to figure out what degree of spirituality works for me and that I find fulfillment in which can change as I move into different stages of my life. And if that's not what I'm authentically into, that's perfectly fine but I am seeing myself getting back into my own sense of spirituality and spiritual practices lately. As I'm writing this, I'm thinking of Leo's video on The Ultimate Guide To Happiness - How Happiness Works and how he goes into different things you should think about regarding your preferences on having a happy life. If I remember correctly, there was a part of the video where he mentioned that for most people, meditating in a cave for days and not using your mind isn't the path to happiness and that while this works for hardcore monks, for him specifically he needs more intellectual engagement and creativity than just meditating because or else it feels like he's just sitting there like a vegetable. I agree. I don't think that I'm trying to "win by developing as much as possible." I can see the value in all of the stages and if I stagnate at yellow, that's perfectly fine by me. Moving up the spiral isn't inherently good. Hell, I think you can even stagnate in the lower stages and so long as it's healthy manifestation of that stage, it's all good. But while I don't think there is anything wrong with staying at a stage and enjoying where you're at, I just wanted to check in and make sure that it's not coming from a place of complacency or demonization of a higher stage because of biases I might have of it.

If it's close to nonduality then it is no longer a religion. Buddhism can be a religion or it can be advanced sprituality, depending on how it is done. For many folks in Asia Buddhism is just a religion, not nonduality.

That is always a possibility, but contradiction is a feature of nonduality.

Loosely. Yes, of course. 0, 1, 2, and even 3 are rather special numbers. 0 is the ground. 1 is the unity of all things. 2 is the duality of forms. And 3 is the count of 0, 1, and 2. But in the end numbers are just one way to look at reality. Don't give numbers too much importance as the scientists do. You could look at reality in a completely non-numerical way. Don't make numbers into your God. Sure it is. I have episodes about duality and its importance. But also remember that duality and even nonduality are one lens to see reality, and you can look at reality in even more advanced ways.

How do you know? Do you speak from personal experience? (sorry, heard that one somewhere before ). Or is it deduction from cases you think are enlightened and who still suffer? There is a path beyond Enlightenment to stabilize this freedom from suffering, but the tools to do that are given for the first time WITH Enlightenment (peak to plateau to permanent). And most "Enlighenments" are just Awakenings with remnants of separate-self hijacking the newfound Nonduality. And yet, the amount of bliss and release from the suffering of the self-contraction that resting in True Being (or Awakened infinite nondual timeless Awareness) brings, once it has become accessible, is astonishing. And that bliss and force of True Being has the potential to stabilize that in plateau to permanent. These statements of yours are in contradiction to roughly 2 millenia+ testaments of beings who have realized their True Being. Suffering is the "rubber band" that makes separate-selves return to their True Being. Hamster-wheels until the original condition is restored. Suffering is what guarantees that no being is lost in the illusion of separation forever. The longer one chases states/experiences/whatever, the longer the hamster-wheels spin. One could even say that the separate-self IS suffering/resistance/contraction (Adi Da called the ego self-contraction). Because one of its main essences IS the suffering/contraction/localization/resistance to what is. Suffering IS the ego IS the separation/separate-self. I can tell you from my own experience that it is felt exactly as that (self-contraction), which becomes obvious at some point on the path, as contractions in the head and body. When these contractions/solidities (mainly in the head at the end in my case) fully dissolve and drop, the boundless field of consciousness becomes infinite and truly nondual. It is such a relaxation of tension/contration/localization/constant-background-contraction/"baseline-suffering". It feels like vast-spaciousness, nondual, limitless, so free and open. Bliss itself. And honestly, every being not living from this obviously and inevitably suffers, is in the claws of the merciless self-contraction. This becomes then totally clear once one has experienced this dropping of the self-contraction, which then creates compassion. Which stabilizes (paradoxically) Awakening and Nonduality even further. That is the beginning of boundless vast Non-Duality (not yet Enlightenment), in which Awakened nondual Awareness ripens (Roger Thisdell stage 4 to stage 5) towards Enlightenment, or the full dropping of anything separate, truly becoming Infinite Being. Here the bliss starts flowing, and the path starts showing itself to itself. Fueled by the bliss of True Being, which already starts giving a powerful attractor point starting here. Selling the bliss of vast nondual limitless spaciousness at the River PS: And for the "trying" to dissolve suffering. Yes, trying doesn't work. The dissolving of suffering/self-contraction is the case once it happens. Until then, while trying, there is suffering.

The main course of Nonduality just ain’t as tasty without the appetizer of Duality. Not to mention the dessert of “no one did all that seeking to go absolutely nowhere.”

But kidding aside, this is the Zen version of the key stage from going what some call Nonduality/Buddhism/rodents to Enlightenment. Beginning Nonduality is still in the dream, a subtle self merged in unity with the visual field, exchanging the dual dream for the nondual dream. But still a dream. When this Unity-self gets thinner and thinner, more and more transcended (Thisdell stage 4 to Thisdell stage 5), then: Everything - "every vestige of self-awareness", or any subtle I-feeling/I-thought/duality (all subtle illusions) have to be seen through and transcended with automized high-speed awarenes (speed, because these illusions arise extremly fast towards the end) and familiarity (strength, because there are some very subtle "feelings" and other arisings that constitute the separate-self) with these subtle obscurations. Speed & Strength of Awareness (courtesy to Frank Yang). And that has to be done automatic, no doer/agent doing it anymore ("Nonmeditation Yoga"). And then at the end it can really break open, in a way that can't be anticipated: You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. Literally. Their essence. Before that stages, afterwards nowhere to go... Infinite Being.

Very well said. Duality and nonduality are two sides of the same coin. Reject one side, and you inevitably reject the whole coin... and guess what, reality can and will not be rejected. The sooner you realize this, the better. 💯

Reality/True Being has the potential of infinitel intelligence. So is is infinite intelligent. Our universe alone can sustain mathematics with which infinite dimensions can be calculated/simulated/described (4 dimensional worlds, 5, n, n+1, non-euclidian, hyperbolic, and what not). Anything that can be done in this universe has to be a potential in Infinite True Being (and much more). Same with life. True Being is not a dead Nothing. Every potential and intelligence we see must be inherent as potential in Infinity. "It" True You is that which is aware, and that which understands and creates all, maintains all, and it is THAT which does all understanding. What else could manifest the show? And be aware of it. Realize it, and you will have these facets all at once. Why do you create a duality between True Being, then Intelligence, then life, then infinite, the flow, and all the other stuff. Hasn't it been written many times True Being/Absolute is infinite (not finite), and has infinite potential? Infinity easily fits into True Being. All of the various infinities mathematics can describe. Buuut the path to realizing that Infinite True Being is first getting rid of anything finite, and limitations, and filters/dualities/lenses of perceptions... because these cloud the realization of "the" Infinite True Absolute Being. Neti Neti. Impersonal. No duality via filters/centers/contractions of the separate self. And then looking what remains, what is always there. "Bombing" oneself to boundlessness and nonduality, or whiteouts, (or what not) via psychedelics doesn't not dissolve these last filters/centers/contractions fully (at least I have never seen one case). Not enough time & clarity in these states. This dissolving of filters/centers/contractions has to be done with "on-board-means", not only external devices. It is the price the universe demands, transcendence of the little ego. Like, at least getting rid a little bit of the annoying bug as entry ticket to the Absolute, so to say...

@Leo Gura Does "alien" spirituality feels like a more synthetic or sci-fi in comparison to the organic ordinary nonduality?

On an Absolute Level, "it" or better True You is solipsistic. Alone and infinite. True You/Infinite Being is "alone" because "it" is infinite with nothing possibly outside of it. But that is True You/True Being. And someone who is not enlightened doesn't (by definition) know the difference between the current identity and True Being, or else he/she would be enlightened and no longer be asking these questions... So talking about Solipsism and God is just counterproductive when talking with beings who have not realized their True Nature. Because they will project their ego on the concept of God or Solipsism, no other chance. First become Nothing (no separate-self), then you will be everything (Infinite Being) - Thisdell stage 4, becoming Thisdell stage 5/Enlightenment. But better not project a little separate something (illusion-separate-self) on everything (Roger Thisdell stage 3 "Godmind"). Or: I am God imagining everything. That makes Thisdell stage 3 a cul-de-sac, no way forward to stabilize Awakening in daily life and ease the suffering. Which is exactly what we see here, with a few added ETs. Is Infinite Being not enough? Does it need to be called God? As I have written several times, I don't really like the pointer God, because it is normally loaded with other meaning on top. God = omnipresent, infinite, timeless/eternal/immortal, creating/manifesting/imagining the whole gig: Same for True Infinite Being. One without a second. But all the stuff projected on top of it when using the pointer God instead of Infinite Being, the one without a second, is often not for the faint of hearted. It anthropomorphizes Infinite True Being/Reality with properties and intentions that are just not there on the most fundamental level, and then proejcts it on the illusion-ego/illusion separate-self. "I am God". Only very few can truthfully say that, because most have not realized their True Being and can't tell the difference to ego/separate-self. And those who can say that truthfully and not fall for the illusion normally don't talk like that, because they know from their own practice it is not beneficial for beings with the ego/separate-self illusion not fully seen through. As soon as one talks like that to not enlightened beings, they almost always project the properties of True Being (or God) on themselves, their separate-identity, which they still have not seen through. Because else they would be enlightened. And these separate-self-identities-arisings/illusions are that which have to be cut down/transcended for Enlightenment to happen. And using the grandiose word "God" tends to blow these illusion-arising up to cosmic proportions: "I" imagine everything. No. "Your" True Being does. But what is that? What is the constant always here True Being? Here also in Deep Sleep? Before ones birth? And if one would fully know the difference between True Being and separate-self/ego, one wouldn't talk about these topics using pointers/concepts like God/Solipsism, because it would be all clear anyway... And one wouldn't need to state I am God and I imagine everything, because.... well... TO WHOM? Well, I guess you get the point. At the level of Infinite Being one is alone. But there is no one there to feel alone, because that would be an anthropomorphic illusion arising of a separate-self WITHIN True Being. It just is what it is. And always has been. And with an enlightened being talking like that it is not necessary. Makes no sense. One sees and knows the Awakened Nondual enlightened State the "other" is in (and nobody really home), and it is clear. Imagine a discussion like: I am God! No, I am God! No, you are not! We are God! That is all illusion, starting with the words "I" and "we". Lot of talk of God and Solipsism happens on Thisdells stage 3 "God-stage, God-mind". Infinite Nonduality with separate-self/remaining identity/ego not fully seen through". It is contradictory, not stable, with lots of illusions still going on. And that is presupposing its done from real nondual states. Most of the time, its done from not nondual states, just from the conceptual level. And from there, it is more insanity than anything else. The discussion then goes like: "No, small you is not God. Big You, True Being, is. But first find out what that is before talking about God & Solipsism". And because of all these contradictions that doing that move includes, there is so much discussion here about these topics. Because it is not clear, but contradictory. Sometimes I use the pointer God, but normally it is not a good pointing/teaching tool. Ever noticed that very few enlightened teachers that are public talk about how they are God and imagining everything, and they are all alone and Solipsism and so on? They do, if you listen between the lines or read/see enough stuff. Sometimes even explictily. Sometimes, even complete books like the Supreme Source have been written, that even got the approval by our host as God Realization. And these enlightened teachers normally don't talk about them being God/Solipsism. Not because they are too stupid to know what God is, and what Solipsism/Aloneness on the Absolute Level means. And they do know that all is an imagined illusion happening within "their" own Infinite Being/True Being by definition. If they wouldn't, they wouldn't be enlightened. But they don't throw that in public at a poor ego to blow it up to cosmic proportions, because that doesn't help their students going from Thisdell stage 3 to 4 to 5. It usually even prevents getting the ego stage 1 to witness stage 2 to nondual stage 3. Because to get there sobre and without psychedelics, one already has to kill/transcend the ego/separate-self quite a lot... Nothing kills sobre Awakened Nonduality better than saying to oneself: I AM GOD. A "normal" identification of I am a human so and so suffices to do that... And one more thing: If Nonduality (or Buddhism) gets bashed: Nonduality is NOT automatically Enlightenment, or realization of True Infinite Being/Reality. It is Thisdells stage 3 Godmind. A boundless nondual infinite field of Awareness, with a separate-self still well and alive hijacking that! And that most Buddhist are not enlightened should go without saying.. Stage 3 Godmind. That is where one gets with psychedelics. And maybe even stage 4 a bit. But I have never seen a mainly psychedelic aficionado get to stage 5, True No Self (also nondual, but without center/separate-self-illusion, truly being the Infinite Totality/Being). Stable Nondual realization of Infinite Being in daily life. Maybe somebody knows one, would be very interested. Can't rule out that one exists, or that one wakes up just by the impulse of a psychedelic. It is just, I have never seen one. I know quite a lot that have done that with transcending/meditation of the false illusion separate self. So basically "Nonduality" and "Buddhism" gets bashed, because one doesn't know that stage 3 "Godmind"/Nonduality is not yet True Being or Enlightenment. Of course merely Nondual Realisation doesn't bring "God-Realization", or understanding that True Being imagines/manifests all of it, and that ones True Self is that. That is stage 5, or the link (Supreme Source) above. Or True Enlightenment. Psychedelics get one to Nonduality, maybe in more sophisticated cases to realizing that it is all imagined/manifested to fool "oneself". But it doesn't get oneself conforming to the impersonal infinite nondual enlightened mindstream. And that is why this "realization" is not stable in daily life. Still suffering/resisting the content of ones own True Infinite Being. "Solution": add a few ETs from higher levels of Reality, and call that higher than realizing and being ones True Infinite Being. And be proud on ones own continuing suffering/resistance towards happens within ones True Infinite Nondual Being, and declare that as inevitable. Or something like that. Well, quite a show Maya is dishing "us" up this time, isn't it Selling God&Solipsism Water by the River The Koan still is: What is the True Being of the ET at the end, really? And that of any other ET, n+1?