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There is no way out of this "mess" other than going in. The seperate identity is the sadness. What you are sad about fundamentally is your disconnection from God. Other people are in the same boat as you, and it does no service to feel sad about them not giving you the Love that your hearts wants. Its all an illussion, don't feel bad. Society is superficial. Living an egoic life is superficial. Everybody feels this lack deep down. Its all a game. All of it. But it is indeed perfect and if your take a look at it from a higher perspective it is so funny. And to all who have read this thread. Suicide is not the way out.

if you say so... But there are collective suicides, of sects where everyone commits suicide on the same day, of suicide fashions because they talk about it on the internet. there was even a fashion in the baroque, the wherter effect, for a goethe novel, as the protagonist committed suicide, many thought it was an elegant gesture and they committed suicide exactly like the guy in the novel. when kurt kobain commits suicide, the number of suicides in the world increases, etc.

Thats also what I intuited. But it was also in regards to physical death. The way Leo puts it is that every incarnation gets to Omniscience after physical death, which is not true from my understanding. That would mean that suicide in every situation would lead to this Ultimate Realization.

Its lot more complicated than that. God is not directly dreaming being a human. It is but what I mean is there are many layers to it. You have a physical body obsviously and than an energic body, astral body and a soul vehicle. The seperation doesn't begin with the ego but with the soul. Realization is the soul/individuated perspective returning to the source, which has always been here, but hiding in grids of illussions. Death is imaginary from the Absolute, but this insight doesn't free you. Obviously even going after absolute freedom is still a dream, God is way beyond that. But thats the game that is being played. What Leo is talking is not wrong per say, but don't get the idea that suicide leads to this realization.

Suicide Prevention Resource Center https://www.sprc.org › news › wom... Women's Suicide Rates Are Increasing Faster Than Men's. We Asked Experts Why Jun 22, 2018 — National data suggest that the suicide rate is rising faster among women than men. A recent report from the National Center for Health Mental Health Innovations https://mentalhealthinnovations.org › ... ONS report shows alarming rise in suicide rates among young women Startlingly, females aged 24 years or under have seen the largest increase in suicide rate since ONS records began in 1981. There were 3.6 deaths per 100,000 maxwell.syr.edu https://www.maxwell.syr.edu › article Suicide Rates Have Soared among Middle-Aged White Women in the US Overall, rates among white women are highest for those ages 45-54, reaching an unprecedented rate of 14.3 deaths per 100,000 white women in 2017. The

Yeah fair, I havent delved into the suicide statistics but I guess what would be relevant is whether men are killing themselves at a greater rate that women now or has it always been the same ratio? It's currently 75% of suicides are male. The other issue in terms of girls doing better than boys would be more pronounced now because girls are encouraged to do well at school and in academia where they wouldn't have been before. In fact there are a lot of programs to get women into different fields that they may not have considered before. Of course none of this is bad per se but it does mean more competition for boys that older generations wouldn't have had, meaning that it's harder than it would've been before, which is great in terms of getting the best people but it will leave some men purposeless. Having said that, masculinity crisis is probably exaggerated and overblown, I'm just pointing out that there are some things that have changed in society which will make some men feel a bit lost if they dont adapt.

I appreciate your answer but that's all just social media hysteria. 1950 suicide rate per 100k is 21 in 2016 its 21. Addiction, consider alcoholism say pre 1990, it's just been replaced by other drugs now. https://www.statista.com/statistics/187478/death-rate-from-suicide-in-the-us-by-gender-since-1950/ The Globe and Mail https://www.theglobeandmail.com › ... Girls have actually always done better than boys at school, study finds. But why? Apr 29, 2014 — In those stereotypically "male" subjects, girls have either performed just as well as boys, or do better. These results were not only

I wouldnt say its totally fake, it is true that boys are falling behind girls in school and of course there are higher suicide rates of men than women, men are more likely to be homeless, addicts etc. So there are definitely issues, I think most of them are due to society changing and men not wanting or not knowing how to change with it. It is difficult because there are so many factors conflicting, evolution, genetics, societal norms etc, before it was laid out pretty black and white whats expected of a man and a woman but now we're questioning if a 'man' is even a thing, what we have is freedom but we are all experiencing the anxiety of that freedom.

This is very sad. I don't see how a lot more men in America will be motivated enough to find self-help resources to improve their dating and sex life. More and more men in the US are getting mentally weaker by the day. I hope western countries don't have a serious decline in birth rates, a continuing increase in suicide rates murder rates because of all of this.

So, you're saying that there's nothing that any leader or any movement can do about this? Dude, the government had no choice but to bailout the banks. I don't like the fact that they did get bailed out, but if we did then we would've be in another Great Depression. Here's what happened during the Great Depression in the US (1929-1941) according to Wikipedia: - 13 million people became unemployed. In 1932, 34 million people belonged to families with no regular full-time wage earner. - Industrial production fell by nearly 45% between 1929 and 1932. - Homebuilding dropped by 80% between the years 1929 and 1932. - In the 1920s, the banking system in the U.S. was about $50 billion, which was about 50% of GDP. - From 1929 to 1932, about 5,000 banks went out of business. - By 1933, 11,000 of US 25,000 banks had failed. - Between 1929 and 1933, U.S. GDP fell around 30%; the stock market lost almost 90% of its value. - In 1929, the unemployment rate averaged 3%. - In Cleveland, the unemployment rate was 50%; in Toledo, Ohio, 80%. - One Soviet trading corporation in New York averaged 350 applications a day from Americans seeking jobs in the Soviet Union. - Over one million families lost their farms between 1930 and 1934. - Corporate profits dropped from $10 billion in 1929 to $1 billion in 1932. - Between 1929 and 1932, the income of the average American family was reduced by 40%. - Nine million savings accounts were wiped out between 1930 and 1933. - 273,000 families were evicted from their homes in 1932. - There were two million homeless people migrating around the country. - Over 60% of Americans were categorized as poor by the federal government in 1933. - In the last prosperous year (1929), there were 279,678 immigrants recorded, but in 1933 only 23,068 came to the U.S. - In the early 1930s, more people emigrated from the United States than immigrated to it. - With little economic activity there was scant demand for new coinage. No nickels or dimes were minted in 1932–33, no quarter dollars in 1931 or 1933, no half dollars from 1930 to 1932, and no silver dollars in the years 1929–33. - In 1932 deflation was 10.7 percent and real interest rate was 11.49 percent. - The U.S. government sponsored a Mexican Repatriation program which was intended to encourage people to voluntarily move to Mexico, but thousands, including many U.S. citizens, were deported against their will. Altogether about 400,000 Mexicans were repatriated.[84] - New York social workers reported that 25% of all schoolchildren were malnourished. In the mining counties of West Virginia, Illinois, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania, the proportion of malnourished children was perhaps as high as 90%. - Many people became ill with diseases such as tuberculosis (TB). - The 1930 U.S. Census determined the U.S. population to be 122,775,046. About 40% of the population was under 20 years old. - Suicide rates increased; however, life expectancy increased from about 57 years in 1929 to 63 in 1933. - The stock market lost almost 90% of its value over the course of four or more years. During the financial crisis (December 2007 to June 2009): - The unemployment rate peaked at 10% in October 2009 - real GDP contracted by 4.2% between Q4 2007 and Q2 2009. - industrial production fell by about 10.3% between 2007 to 2009. - stock market lost about 50% of its value from October 9, 2007 to March 9, 2009 - I don't think suicide rates, living conditions, and health issues were anywhere near as bad as they were during the Great Depression. So, what do you propose should've been done instead of having the big banks be bailed out? Again, Obama didn't achieve as much positive fundamental change for the country as Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and LBJ did. This is because Obama didn't have as large of liberal majorities in both chambers of Congress as those 4 above mentioned presidents did. Obama also only had a supermajority of Democrats in both chambers of Congress for only 2 years. Plus, Obama was president during a relatively politically polarized era which caused a lot of the legislation he wanted to pass to be blocked by the asshole Republicans in Congress. Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and LBJ on the other hand were presidents during eras of high bipartisan consensus and unity in the US, which allow them to pass a lot more reform laws for the country. Besides, don't you think that Obama accomplished more than any president since LBJ in the 1960s or Nixon in the 1970s (except for possibly Biden)?

It is absolutely stunning how this could be discussed openly in 2015. George Friedman (close to US intelligence) said in April 2015 at the Chicago Council: "the primordial interest of the United States over which for centuries we have fought wars, the first, second and cold war has been the relationship between Germany and Russia. Because united they are the only force that could threaten us, and to make sure that that doesn’t happen ... For the United States, the primordial fear is German technology and German capital, Russian natural resources and Russian manpower as the only combination that has for centuries scared the hell out of the United States. So how does this play out? Well, the USA has already put it’s cards on the table. It is the line from the Baltic’s to the Black Sea. For the Russians, their cards have always been on the table, they must have at least a neutral Ukraine, not a pro-western Ukraine. Now, whoever can tell me what the Germans are going to do is going to tell me about the next 20 years of history. But unfortunately the Germans haven’t made up their mind." Today we know the answer, the germans have been pressured and bullied by the US into economic suicide and de-industrialization, and are now staying silent while clearly knowing that the US shamelessly and openly bombed (directly or by proxy) their gas pipeline. The only role of the sanctions was to separate Russia and Germany, not to end the war. Nobody thought honestly that the russian state was going to go bankrupt, that was never the point of them. (In fact the opposite is happening now. Russia's revenue is growing.) The sanctions are working exactly as they were intended, to serve US interests at the cost of german interests. I expect the german people to rebel in the coming years because historically they have not reacted well to humiliation and submission like they are now being subjected by the US.

I would say that the real work is to see through the deception, totally, and realize the reality. where will this take you? it is not known. hardly anyone has really done it. will it make you happier? crazy? suicide? no one knows, because there is no one. they are part of the deception.

@Leo Gura How do you personally deal with demons? I have a friend who is interested in the spiritual path and she also wants to try psychedelics, specially lsd. But im scared she might go crazy since she says demons have spooked them in dreams and recently at her house. She is paranoid and is scared of getting stuck in a serious bad trip, specially with some demonic entity who might trick her into comitting suicide.

This is the best response so far. I think you're right. I mean I intuitively know that there are some (okay many) things I don't understand about spirituality. The longer I think about being completely alone the more okay I am with it, and the less I feel like I am a person in the conventional sense. I think that @Sincerity explained it well in another post. "Suicide is the only way to fully awaken, but god instilled me with fear (out of love) so that I don't do that" (not the exact quote btw). Anyway I'm glad there is someone here who both validates my negative experience and gives me the real way out.

Damn man you have to stop with these amazing comments, you’re providing too much value here ? So much value I’m actually considering suicide because of it. ?

Yes we mean the same, I am just unsure how this stuff plays out at high levels I find this tricky, I was there in one report where one guy somehow chased a guy with a baseball bat and seemed to act from god (he was chasing a schizophrenic bum and had a high state experience), what can you make out of this? Shinzen sort of dispelled the illusion as he was so prideful about this incident, sort of as an "act" from god. At least this is my notion of the event. Never unfortunately, I played the video games as a kid . I know it's a shame. I know this is sort of when I reached TIER2 and I notice I have this massive influence and I have to downgrade, as SD Green really does not like natural hierachies at all I noticed. When I then open up, I notice how much b.s goes into these worldviews and how equality in a sense can feel repressive when I look at history etc. It's quiet tricky I can understand from some level, I just know it's very tricky to work with an SD green therapist on SD Yellow issues for example. The lonliness and autodidactivness and lifelong learning, they are so overwhelmed and need this stage blue technical A-Z blueprint it hurts a lot. I really don't think the outlashes are to bad, the ones with the suicide and gun to the head I found was to serious, that is not funny anymore and I've been there. Not with a gun just in extrem situations where I do not even have the option etc. I just don't think some of the group projections he has are healthy and instead of providing hope, this sort of god complex? shines forth. I find it very tricky to navigate this, when I contemplate how serious this is. You basically have to be super good at beign a chamelon and navigating social spaces, professionally. I don't find it easy either, sometimes I make promises I can't keep because I am overestimated the situation and then get scollded in a sense, at one point it's 3 strikes and you are out. Usually I make one strike even 2 in chaos, yet I did not do 3 till now at least. At least the third attempt hits. The point is many here don't realize how f*ed the world is with striver and achiever mentallity and how fortunate it is to have self-questioning greens and how many need a stage blue a-z blueprint, it gives them security a lot. I don't like it either I'd rather explore something unknown, yet during this exploration all kinds of stuff does happen. I wish he would not engage with members like this and focus more on his video then etc. He could cut the b.s more effectively the members he b.s cuts are the ones with the god complex themselves in a sense by saying. I AM TOTALLY AWAKEND ETC. I know what sort of is meant, yet it's tricky to gauge and I wish he would serve at times as a more mature role model who is playful and that is fking hard ngl. Also entertainment and memes are one of the worst epdidemics I find of young adults. It's horrible. I am glad none of this b.s is allowed. It's just when it's so prosaic that there is less room for b.s. Like in a physics class etc.

On Jan 30th, Leo Gura had his most explosive outburst towards a user yet: Here are some facts about the issue: This was indeed directed to the user of the created thread Leo Gura had made a prior comment before this outburst that received no reply, where he was speaking in his regular tone. No exchange was made in between these comments, nor was any comment deleted, proving that the outburst came out suddenly, unexpectedly, and completely out of the blue. The user was not being overblown, boastful, grandiose, or overstating with his/her claims about their awakening state to elicit this type of behavior, not that being like that would remotely justify this malicious behavior in the least. You can read the full outburst here and see the context for yourself: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89530-awakened-now-what/?page=2 Leo Gura violated his own forum guidelines as shown below directly taken from: https://www.actualized.org/forum/guidelines/ #1 Rule: Don't Be A Jerk Speak to people with respect. Be conscious and kind. What’s NOT Allowed: Verbal abuse Calling members names like: stupid, idiot, moron, asshole, retard, evil, etc. Trash-talking, trolling, chronic criticism, blaming, or finger-pointing I checked in on the user myself to make sure he/she wasn't hurt, as the leader of the forum had just bullied this person, and had no idea the mental state and stability of the user, considering anyone here could be going through a very hard time and be easily pushed to the edge, but ignores this potential to pridefully "school" the user instead. Not to mention the very fact that venturing into this domain of spirituality can leave individuals frail, fragile, and on edge, as they could potentially be going through difficult things, like having they're notions of life or death put into question, leaving them more vulnerable than before. And the fact that users of the forum have committed suicide, the leadership of the forum was instead used to bully and point the finger. Also Leo takes assumption in the original message that the user was offended. "The reason you're offended and swarming around like fish because…" Where I verified with the user that he not offended, but more importantly, not hurt. Leo does this often with his users, as he assumes he knows the exact blueprint of completely unique and distinct individual, that display as faceless strangers on an internet forum. To make the matter more hypocritical, Leo Gura had just made posts within two weeks prior that he was looking to "crackdown" on toxicity, drama, and wants to increase the maturity of the forum. Featuring quotes such as: "I've been seeing a lot of needless drama, in-fighting, and toxic communication on this forum of late. This makes the whole ecosystem unpleasant for the majority of members who are decent, respectful, and follow the rules." https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89049-notice-cleaning-up-forum-drama-toxicity/ "Thanks again to those who have been on good behavior from the beginning and never needed such warnings and reminders. I will also be making an effort to improve my communication with you to rise to the level of maturity, wisdom, and respect that you deserve." https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89380-strict-crackdown-on-duplicate-accounts-immaturity/ "This forum will no longer be a safe haven for immature or emotionally unhinged people. Anyone not mature enough to communicate or socialize in a mentally-stable and integrous manner will simply not get to participate around me. If you cannot control your emotions, you're out. If you behave in an egotistical and dogmatic manner, you're out. If you attack other members of this community, you're out." https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89380-strict-crackdown-on-duplicate-accounts-immaturity/ "Every time before you post, as you write your post, I want you to stop and ask yourself, "How is this post just me acting out my ego in the usual ways?", and "Is this post just me venting and justifying my selfishness?" https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89066-reminder-of-why-youre-here/ On page 3 of the thread of the outburst, Leo Gura also continues with his maliciousness but directs it to another user: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/89530-awakened-now-what/?page=3

@Something Funny @zurew Moving to a friend's house is like committing suicide. There are only three places a woman is allowed to live in in a third world country (especially the more religious it is): Parents' house. Husband's house. The grave.

Yes, don’t use it for childhood trauma. Only for single incidents. I had a friend who had an abusive early childhood, and over the course of her life she slowly improved with different healing methodologies she came upon. Then she decided to go all mainstream, do what the psychiatrist said and get EMDR sessions. She committed suicide after the second or 3rd session. I’m not sure what to think about it exactly, or what happened in these sessions, but what I do know is that EMDR is a very poorly understood “trick” that you have to pay a lot of money for, to the private person who invented it, in order to perform it on people. But the mechanism of action is unclear. And so a run-of-the-mill psychologist can now buy their way into having a fancy session they can offer, and say they work with trauma. Psychiatry is a very young field, we really don’t know what we’re doing. It’s been around for 200 ish years, before that the insane were considered possessed by the devil. I’m of the firm belief that crying heals the brain, and a trauma is something that hasn’t been sufficiently cried over. Because people don’t like to cry, nor can they stand to watch others bawl, because it would remind them of all their own uncried tears, they constantly invent tricks to prevent it, like medication and EMDR, and call them therapy. And they get insanely popular because it helps therapists and patients in the whole wide world avoid tears. Even though the tears are what they need. I’m not sure how EMDR works, what I do know is that you get rhythmically distracted while talking through traumatic memories, and that there’s no bawling. This can only mean that it somehow helps to further the separation of feeling and factual memory, when it comes to traumatic memories (facts and feelings are stored in different locations, we can have factual memories that we have no idea were traumatic because the feeling is disconnected). That’s not healing, that’s a method to help push the pain down further, where it can never be found. If you do this for a car accident because you want to stop having flashbacks, it’s probably harmless and effective. If you do it for childhood trauma, which is a network of different nodes of pain that you need to work through in order to heal, then you’re probably messing up your brain more rather than healing it. Pain always finds a way to create symptoms. When it can’t be connected with its original source (the factual memory, remembering it, crying through and letting it out == healing), it’s unpredictable what it will do but it’s sure going to mess with you in some way. What I said above also goes for hypnotherapy. Hypnosis can be used for good (digging out a blocked memory so we can cry about it), but usually these days it’s used in a harmful way (getting to the traumatic memory and convince the person to see them in a different way, so that they’re not so painful, thereby creating more blockages around the real pain, which is basically hypnotic gaslighting, well-meaning but very misguided)

Constant rejection does undoubtedly cause one to feel very discouraged and demoralized. I almost lost hope after getting by hundreds and hundreds of girls in a row in real life. If I hadn't ever gotten lucky enough to finally get my first ever real girlfriend at 30 years old after years of countless rejection, then I could've either ended up in a hospital for major clinical depression or commit suicide or start taking drugs or drinking alcohol to numb myself from the trauma of failure and being unwanted or resort to paying prostitutes/escorts for the rest of my life or abandon my family to become a celibate monk for life or live alone in the wilderness until I get killed by some wild animal. Who knows what insane and self-destructive thing I really could've done to myself.

Thanks. Makes sense. There is a reciprocal relationship between thoughts (or intellectual beliefs ), emotions (feeling or affect) and behaviors. Feelings generate thoughts which can be experienced as internal dialogue. Internal dialogue, thoughts, can affect the intensity of a physiological response to the environment. Excitement and anxiety may actually be the same physiologically, but it is the label we give our experience, our cognitions which then create the way we experience our experience. But I cannot separate the two. If I believe that life sucks and meaningless and God is an evil mofo asshole..then how can i justify not doing suicide? (this is just an example, I'm neither depressed nor suicidal)

This world is in a really sad state. Natural disasters, climate change, destroyed ecosystems, crime, mass suicide and corruption. Some believe the world can be redreamed into something entirely new once god decides to finally awaken. Do you think heaven on earth is coming and that the world will be redreamed with the return of god or the second coming of Christ which is the realization of Christ consciousness.

So I was suffering due to lack of girlfriend in my life . A senior told me that you will never get a girlfriend to which I replied that so I must commit suicide. Senior told that go and commit suicide as there is no meaning for existence of a boy like you and you are a disturbing element to girls. Also when I shared this with my friends that I am suffering they scolded me and told that others have their dating life and career handled and you are not like that . And also as I mentioned that I was kicked out of campus that senior told me that that girl abuses me and literally hates me . They also adviced me to not to watch the video of bald headed person - Actualized.org . They also told me that that is western culture and it is India those things won't work here . I am feeling very bad .

What a question. I suppose the same way some people don’t even know they are depressed; at some point, your psyche adjusts. You only have a handful of choices, after all. Suicide, obsessively thinking about it, trying to accept that life is misery at the moment, blatant escapism, etc. as someone who has had (diagnosed) depression for a few years now, accepting and saying “I'm depressed" rather than saying “I have depression” is one of the worst mistakes someone trying to overcome any mental illness can possibly do. Depression is no more a part of who your are than any other illness is. You need to believe that it can and will get better. I truly promise you that it will. But, with that being said, it is going to take some serious determination on your part. Just don’t ever give up. So, in summary, it is entirely possible to accept depression as a part of yourself, but it is one of the biggest mistakes you could ever make. I truly hope this helps. Just keep telling yourself that it will get better (as corny and cliche as that saying is) and that accepting that you are depressed rather than having depression is going to make you situation worse. And if you arent already, please talk to somebody. I hope you get better

@Leo GuraI understand that life can be very hard especially health issues, I my self have multiple mental ilnesses and still seriously consider suicide every couple of days but what I don't understand is that you did like 300 trips and you meditated a lot, how on earth such things still affect your happiness, aren't you supposed to be invinciple . Maybe your relatively low baseline is the problem, maybe this shows greatly the limitations of the psychedelic approach Or is it that suffering cannot be practically transcended by humans?