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Some people try to argue that they can have a conceptual, intellectual awakening. This is foolishness and will actually bar that person from actually awakening. Osho does a good job of explaining what that state, the awakened state is in this video. If you don't want to watch the video just understand this, trying to conceptualize God Realization intellectually is like a blind man trying to conceptualize what light is. You can explain to a blind man all day what light is, but unless he can actually see he doesn't know what light is. Even worse, he cannot even imagine it! He must get an experience of light before he can know light. Awakening, Realization is the same thing, when you finally get it, you see what is going on. Edit: Osho is YOU by the way, completely imaginary but you create characters to help you awaken in case you get tired of playing the role of identifying as the First Person Perspective Character and want to realize what is actually going on. You create traps so the awakening is a journey because obviously you must turn everything into a journey, an adventure of sorts.

Once your heart is awakened to change it's only a matter of time. Just find three schools and make a test training. Join the one with the most friendly attitude. Comparing will lose it's pain once you are good in something and grow as a human. Stay away from that women? lol

The awakened sees what the totality of everything sees. Ingenious thread btw

I don't really want to get into it, but I do want to point out that this place (like many others) currently isn't deemed "safe" for transgender/two-spirit topics, so you don't see people talking about it as a result. this alone does not invalidate it, just like how you wouldn't equate the fact there are very few awakened people on this planet (and unsafe to talk about with most people) that it would make it invalid. I acknowledge however where people are at and respectfully disengage from this discussion in general. @DrugsBunny I acknowledge the difficulty in having this discussion here and I just want to say, I see you and I hope you can find peace within yourself that you don't need approval from others to be certain of your view. please understand that everyone is learning on their own "timelines" and this may be why it can be difficult to get a consensus.

Learn cutting off (or seeing them for what they are, as objects moving in you) your separate self arisings (thoughts and feelings) in your mindstream. They will get/arise faster and faster, and you can see them emerging out of consciousness as consciousness, and being elaborated in language afterwards. I had to read "Pointing out the Great Way," by Daniel Brown (chapters Skill of Reckognition and Yoga of Unelaboration) ten times plus to get it, and try a lot in implementing it. Pointing out the Great Way is a synthesis and summary of the Mahadmudra-System of Tibetan Buddhism. If you learn to cut off these mental arisings, at first they get faster and faster (Skill of Reckognition). That is some kind of protection mechanism of the separate self/Ignorance/Maya. Look into their nature, they arise out of empty and aware consciousness, they are not separate from consciousness, and they return to consciousness. But the tricks of the separate self mindstream arisings are limited, at some point you know all these separate self arisings (thoughts and feelings). The first shift comes when you can cut them all off and stay in the Awareness that you are (Skill of Reckognition). From that point onwards, bliss develops just from doing that. And later, it starts getting vast spaciousness and nondual. And you realize the Always-Here-Mind (Yoga of Unelaboration). That You/Mind/Reality doesn't come and go on time, but is always here, eternal and fundamental. And then you develop full Nonduality of the Visual Field as mere infinite appearance (Yoga of One Taste), and from there on fully "empty out" the separate self in Nonmeditation Yoga (Awakened Awareness being Reality itself). Up until this first shift (Skill of Reckognition, see above), meditation can be pleasant or unpleasant. After this shift, you generate your own happiness, on the pillow and off the pillow. In Mahamudra its called the three special states of bliss, clarity and nonconceptual stillness. And try some Psychedelics as preview for Nonduality/infinite Visual Field of mere appearance, and to empty out/transcend the separate self. Just don't expect that you have enough time in these states to empty or transcend that last remnants of the separate self (very subtle feelings of individuality/separtness watching some kind of infinity) fully. If it all gets transcend permanently, great and Namaste! But if you can't sustain that state sobre, maybe some separate self arisings still happen to cloud over the infinite mere appearance awareness-space that You are. All the best ( : Selling Water by the River

>I feel like it’s become a living reality in some ways but there is also conditioning that is pulling me back and how I experience things now in relation to that conditioning I’ve definitely felt and still feel to some extent that I’ve completely lost my mind and gone insane because it’s so far out compared to what I thought reality was 3-4 years ago. Be good to your separate self. It is not that you are not that, but you are not ONLY that. You contain it. If you say "You are not it", on one hand it is true, on the other hand you contain it. You give rise to it, it arises in you. So in the end, you are not ONLY it (credits concerning the "you are not not only that" to Colette Davie). In Ken Wilbers language: Differentiation and Integration vs. Disassociation and .... problems. Your separate self will operate better, more efficient, more loving and way smarter when you no longer have ignorance, or believe to be ONLY that separate self. In the words of Daniel Brown: The small you/separate self gets out of the way, Awakened Awareness (Mahamudra/Dzogchen-term for Infinite Consciousness/Reality) takes over and does all tasks and daily life at hand much more smarter than the separate small self/you could. And since the intelligence from the separate self is just borrowed from the infinite Intelligence of Reality, you just remove a filter limiting the flow of intelligence and intuition. The "I am not only the separate self",or "the separate self arises in me, and its just a bundle/a Gestalt of moving I feelings/thoughts, with no real existence beyond its structure/Gestalt/structure-Gestalt=probability-arising-distribution of thoughts/feelings" is in my opinion the more sophisticated version of Neti Neti. The separate self Gestalt/structure arisings "borrows" its appearance of being real/consciousness from Infinite Consciousness, like the planets are only shining from the light of the sun. It doesnt really exist/shine on its own (see the Video of Francis Lucille below). What is conscious is not the separate self, but infinite consciousness. And the separate self believing itself to be true is just being that misunderstanding arising/moving in that which is really conscious. You look out from your body like you look out from your car, but you are not your car. And with the separate self thoughts/feelings moving in you, its a bit more tricky, but a similiar confusion/mistaking what consciousness really is.... The only thing that fully drops from the separate self is the belief-concept (feeling and thought arisings) that you are only this body-mind or flow of identity-arisings. The rest of the separate self (or small you instead of You) can and should remain fully functional in You (Reality itself), that is the healthy version of the process. But if it all happens too fast (which can lead to a more "interesting" and unhealthy version of the process, with too little integration, see what happened to Ramana in the beginning. So huge is the bliss of realizing and dwelling in what You really are....). And until you experience the stabilized and integrated form, it can be an interesting ride... Have some humor on the path, a good map, and bon voyage! Luckily, it all happens in that which You really are, and you never can loose that. >I do admit that I’m to a certain extent trying to figure it out by thinking and reason but I’ve also experiences some unreasonable things in my trips so I know it has limits. I have had some breakthroughs but it’s not all clear so I’m weary of thinking ”I got it” and I can still feel there is this sense of wanting to ”grasp”. But I hope this can open me up more and help me go beyond that. To really get it, you need a change of state, an Awakening, as you write. For example via Psychedelics, and/or a good meditation system, like "Pointing out the Great Way, Brown". Or ideally, both. Then from these Awakenings come hopefully good/correct understandings/realizations. Correct understandings = understandings that facilitate and don't block further understandings/realization and Awakening-States. It is a merry-go-round of Awakening -> Realization/Understanding -> Awakening a level higher-> Realization/Understanding a level higher -> ... . Until you conform fully to the Enlightened Mind: And when your level of Awakening, boosted and stabilized by a foundation of correct or non-ignorant Understanding/Realization reaches a certain level, then Crossing Over to fully Realizing your True Nature can happen (necessary is normally a certain time of seeing the whole Visual Field/Awareness Bubble as mere infinite appearance arising, and seeing ALL thought/feeling-arisings moving as empty appearances in you). Especially the last point takes some time... A nice description is in Pointing Out the Great Way, Chapters on Crossing Over and Basis Enlightenment (Basis= Awakening to the Absolute Nature of Reality, in Zen "Great Enlightenment"). So you have to conform in Awakening State AND Understanding/Realization to the Real Nature of Things/Reality/Enlightened Mind, and then Crossing Over can happen all by itself. Infinite Consciousness/Reality realizing Itself what it is, Reality realizing Reality itself, since Reality is Infinite Consciousness. IT understands itself. And then one normally wonders why you haven't seen the forest for the trees earlier.... But hey, what a ride! But you can't force Crossing Over, that would be yet more of so called "artificial actitivites" of the separte-self-Gestalt, creating more Illusion while trying to force it. And that is why it is so difficult, and I am a bit less than totally happy with most of the maps we have so far about this process. Some traditions like Zen even made what some would call a fetish (sorry) out of throwing the maps away, like throwing away the Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra-Map [Wikipedia: the most important doctrines of the Laṅkāvatāra are the primacy of consciousness (Skt. vijñānavada), the teaching that consciousness as the only reality and that "all the objects of the world, and the names and forms of experience, are manifestations of the mind" as well as the "identification of the Buddha-nature (in the state of tathāgatagarbha) with alayavijñāna"]. More on that, see Wilber Integral Buddhism, chapter on Zen. Throwing maps away is true on some limited level, like getting out of only conceptual thinking into non-conceptual Awareness itself. But still... Look at the success-rate of enlightened ones, or rather the non-success-rate... Yet, I must admit I still love Zen, like whats more precise than your face before your parents were born? Or the Sound of the One Hand? Best map I have found so far is Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. That, maybe boosted by Psychedelics to get some introduction to the Nondual-States faster... And for Buddhism & Psychedelics, see: Psychedelic Buddhism: A User's Guide to Traditions, Symbols, and Ceremonies, Crowley, and Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Crowley. Not that Buddhism would ever do something like that.... ( : Francis Lucille on: Planets (separate self) shining in the light of the sun (Infinite Consciousness/Reality). They don't shine by themselves. Selling Water by the River ( :

Your perspective on that is already quite good. I would suggest to add these three perspectives: 1: -> The infinite perspectives in the Non-Euclidian-Space as approximation 2: When allowing for forgetting in time, then also allowing for forgetting other perspectives right now, or in "space". 3: The Awakening to the Absolutely Empty Subject that you (and all beings) really are. Any boundary can only be imagined within that. That is why you have to be fully empty to understand Absolute Reality. Then: When you are fully empty and nondual, perceptions perceiving themselves, at some point you will directly have the realization and understanding that the same Consiousness that you are is in the "other", having arisings of the separate self-feelings and -thoughts, being believed and not seen through, just in the same way it was with you for a long time. Then, these dry perspectives explained above become a lived and felt reality. You can not "think" or reason your way to these Awakenings. But with a perspective that is actually close to how things really work, it calmes your questions (mental arisings in your mindstream, which also include separate self-feelings and separte self-thoughts) on this, and make you rest in the Suchness, resting in the infinite Abyss of Empty Nothingness that you are. And then you are open for these Awakenings. You can't force them (that would be generating separate-self arisings, or artifical activity as Daniel Brown calls it in "Pointing out the Great Way"), but you can make your mindstream open and compatible/available for them (Evaluating these Koan on Psychedelics for sure also helps). More on that in the chapter on Non-Meditation Yoga in this book. All waves on the river are the river, watching the river, and are not separate from the river. There is only be the river. All form that can arise have to arise in Reality/Consciousness, including all imaginary boundaries. If you fully understand the structure of your perspective in this life, you can generalize this understanding for all possible perspectives. Since any boundary or border between any perspective can only be form in consciousness. How can you define any outside or inside if any boundary marking this boundary would be an arising in Absolute Consciousness? How can there be any time in it, besides and imagined arisings moving in it, imagining all past and future? What has to be there before every beginning and ending? What are you? Can you ever get truly "outside" of Yourself? And you can not say anything "positive" about this reality that you are, the Absolute Subject, since that would be a form, and arising, arising in it/You. You can only say what it is not. Neti Neti. "It" is Reality itself, unlimited, infinite. And it has the potential for sentience, perceptions perceiving themselves, as soon as forms arise. But this sentience is also empty, it can not be pointed to as arising or form of any kind. And yet, all of the infinite dimensions and forms arise in It/True You. You can describe the infinity of all arisings/forms of infinite dimensions/multiverses. But that which is truly infinite, what Absolute Reality/True You are, has to be realized and awakened to. That is why smarter people than myself mainly used Koans like the Clap of the one Hand, or An ancient pond/ a frog jumps in/ the sound of water. But the perspectives explained above were helpful for me to relax my philosophical mind with helpful perspectives that were close to how things really work. To be available for the real Awakening. Selling Water by the River

I want to reach higher understanding of reality. I should pursue working myself by trying to embody my awakenings I had before? For example I awakened a month ago that there is no spiritual progress - with this I can release lot of suppressing and escape, but how much should I practice this? Or I should pursue directly awakenings? The same awakenings can be repeated? Because I had only one big classical awakening, and that came from bhakti yoga praying. Because when I had some awakenings they lasted only for minutes or hours. So I assume I have to make them constant. Following many system make me confused because then I don't have clearity to gauge my progress.

I guess. Thanks for the input. You know what my definition of Awakening is (or I should say, one part, except to realize you are God) is to Awaken those parts of you that are lying dormant within you waiting to be activated to truly explore fully who you truly are. After Enlightenment it's chop wood carry water; and if you don't keep those sparks alive and running, you'll go right back to sleep and running like a programmed robot. (Like a car sitting for some time that needs to be rebooted in order to start running again). Anyway, I think we're all born Enlightened, but it's the programming that we're running on that has shielded us from seeing the light of who we truly are. It's not about adding on but taking away all the baggage we've so easily carried within our consciousness leading us to believe in a false Self which we are believing in and has used to navigate or lives instead of just going with the flow of life like nature intended. But learning how to do that is a process like a baby learning to walk. But we don't curse a baby when it stumbles we guide it along until it learns on its own. A baby isn't low-consciosness because it doesn't know how to walk, it's just being a baby. A seed isn't low-consciosness because it hasn't blossomed into a tree, it's just being a seed. Likewise, a human isn't low-consciosness because it hasn't blossomed into its fill potential and hasn't awakened all its faculties in order to become God-like; it needs nurturing just like watering a seed so it can fully blossom into its full potential of becoming the tree it already had implanted in it. My thing is, I feel we're all Enlightened beings, just like that seed already has that tree inside of it, growing into the wonderful human beings that needs to be nurtured in order to become the full potential of all the dormant features laying in all of us waiting to be activated in order to become what we were intended to be and that is to become God. If that makes sense. But then, again, I could be deluded. Doesn't matter, if I'm deluded then I'm just God deluding myself to the point where I decide to burst out of my delusion.

I watched two videos from Leo yesterday. One was based on the framework for knowledge and the other one was the reasoning behind the deletion of the solipsism video. I had an insight that synthesized a few points from both of them, that to know what spirituality and god are, you have to deeply inquire about your own beliefs and perspectives. To do so effectively is useful to listen to Actualized.org, read philosophy, or study spirituality, but as soon as you got those resources together, you have to shed the bool sheet from them and directly know god and reality through your own experiences. That's why he keeps saying no one is awakened. We are stuck in plenty of cultural, intellectual, logical, and linguistic concepts of awakening and spirituality, name-calling god instead of experiencing it.

Awakening is only one phenomenon, it is being aware of something that previously was unaware of. There are an infinite amount of things one can become awakened to but awakening is still the same simple process of being aware of something that previously one was not aware of. Eventually, one can become awakened to the infinite number of consciousnesses that comprise the one ultimate, for a lack of a better word, consciousness. This is how the solipsistic perception of 'I am god' is transcended and the notion of alone evaporates so awaken to all one. It's literally awakening to the multitude of being that is 'god consciousness' but often people have to awaken through the solitude of solipsism 'god consciousness' initially. Not everyone will go that way but if you listen to other people tell you that's what it is then you have been conceptually primed to experience it that way and it is difficult to not perceive it as such. It is apparent by how someone describes their perception they tell is what their experience of it is, which sounds pretty obvious. So if they are saying 'I am the only one' they are still perceiving the solitude perception and not the multitude perception of god consciousness. There is no right and wrong, or true and false about it, it's simply the perception that one is aware of. In the multitude perception of god consciousness, one is aware of all in it, like Jesus, Buddha, every guru and teacher, every student and seeker but also including everyone who is completely asleep so isn't aware they are connected as the all one god consciousness. So if someone tells me they can't see me from what they are aware of in god consciousness, it doesn't mean I can't see them from what I am aware of in god consciousness. Yet, ultimately we are together, actually coexisting and occupying the one together as one in the ultimate god consciousness. Whether one is aware of it or not.

The disagreement mainly stems from different recognition of the nature of awakening. It is true that there is a stage of development where one can reach a permanent absolute being/understanding/consciousness of the nature of existence/infinity/God. Whether through psychedelic or traditional means. Which is what most refer to as awakening or enlightenment or God-realization. It is a realization that removes all doubts about what you are, what existence is, and why everything is the way it is. Most who reach this stage will likely be permanently changed, the truth will become an everpresent part of how they live, despite ego coming back in different degrees. (It is impossible to be absolutely egoless while you are a conscious human, no matter how awakened you are, as a conscious human you will have degrees of ego in order to exist) This stage of development is what most religious and spiritual teacher points to, despite the different methods, definition, or explanation. And because it is so profound and absolute, it can feel like the final awakening, and it makes sense, since most people's whole reasoning behind their spiritual seeking is to reach these answers. They are content with this level of understanding for it is more than enough to find meaning in their human existence. They are looking at awakening from the perspective of a human, and see awakening as solely something that serves their human existence. However, if you look at awakening from God's perspective. To God, awakening is not limited to anything. God can awaken to itself in infinite ways and infinite degrees. In God's perspective, all of existence is "it" awakening to itself in infinite ways and infinite degrees. The first stage of absolute awakening is like being handed the key to God's perspective. Some will experience it and feel satisfied with it from their human perspective and live on, and that is totally fine. While others might use the perspective to experience/explore existence from the perspective of God. Thus allowing them to experience awakening, as God, to itself, in infinite ways and degrees. And that is fine too, since awakening is love, and through the different degrees of awakening one can experience higher and higher degrees of infinite/love from their human perspective. The nature of awakening is love no matter how high the degree or the difference in methods. Everyone will choose through their/God's free will what degree of awakening they wish to experience.

In general, do you think it's better to do spiritual practice in a room filled with exhaust and maggots eating at your eyeballs while somebody is giving you intravenous injections of PCP and alcohol, or would you prefer a more healthy environment? Sure, you can expose yourself to stressors in a controlled way as a part of your spiritual practice, but the key there is "controlled". When something is outside your control and you can't change it and it affects your health, that is not good for spiritual practice. "Social stuff" is to trivialize it. It's a social safety net, a buffer for stressors, mental health support and care, and a source of knowledge and wisdom from people who know more than you (and preferably an old tradition tested by time). This particular point is very personal to me. The lack of a social safety net around me when I first awakened is the greatest injustice I've experienced as a human. I'll acknowledge like I did earlier that some lineages of particularly Christianity was burdened by some theological shifts around 400 BC (but again, this not endemic to religion in general). But other than that, the difference between New Age faith and Christian faith is that you'll be promised heaven on Earth instead of heaven in the afterlife, and in both cases, you have to indeed take it on faith until you're on the other side, and you have to trust some external example outside yourself as a motivator (your guru, your saint, your savior). What that looks like in practice is identical for both cases: it's the same levels of dogmatism, confusion, self-deception. The difference is that the New Ager does it mostly alone while fearing for their sanity and while probably getting exploited by some eccentric figure on the fringes of society.

Gotama didn't invent Buddhism. He simply put forth and communicated his realizations from direct experience. His followers invented that religion by or through their actions -- believing in a guy's communication, putting it down on paper, holding the books as "sacred", performing rituals, making up a cosmology around it, adding and projecting stuff, etc. That, carried out for a long period of time, created what we call Buddhism. In any case, what awakened individuals like these had were insights, breakthroughs and enlightenments, not mere ideas. The absolute is not a matter of jumping to conclusions or of being convinced. Even if it is a superficial glimpse, it is absolute and self-validating. Care should be taken not to fool oneself with stories about it, though. What if the truth happens to be useless and to have no value? As a matter of fact, what's true must exist prior to value, since the latter is relative and is constructed by you. Saying that the absolute is the highest value doesn't sound right to me. What do you mean? What's value? Higher than what? Who's to say? Valuable to whom? It is offered as a possibility to be considered for oneself. Otherwise, what are you doing? If a religion says so, then you're supposed to accept it on blind faith. When the purpose is realizing what's real, you'd be invited to freely question anything.

My view on your Realizations 1. This is false. Saying you are more awake than others does not need to be egoic, but can simply be true. You may reach a point where you realize that you are the most conscious being in existence. When, and if you realize this, then if you say it's the case then it would be true. Others though, cannot verify this for you. Which is challenging. 2. Yes, taking offence at someone saying they are more awake than you, is ego. Even here I foresee come caviats 3. Sure. I actually think the more awake you become, maybe the more boundaries dissolve, but at the the say time more high quality distinctions are made. I am not convinced it's purely that awakening or enlightenment is to dissolve boundaries. I think that is more buddhist framing. Thinking, knowing making high quality distinctions are also a part of becoming more awake. At least, in some aspects of the awakening process, as a human being. To learn to think, be wise, intelligent, use wise discernment etc are to me, signs of a deeply awakened and wise person. At the highest levels of my own awakenings, and I am not saying I am awake... It's ineffable how One, it all is. But, each awakening I've had has lead me to making higher and higher quality distinctions within the oneness as a human. 4. Sure 5. True 6. Maybe. This is assuming that all experiences are equal, symmetrical in value to understanding God and awakening. I would say that is false. There are higher states of knowing that simply aren't accessible to most people, and buddhists especially so... They just like to imagine that all states are an equal playing field. This is false. 7. Buddhist Framing. This framing is also in some Hindu and other types of spiritual framing. I am not sure there is a purpose of life. But, I do myself create the meaning that the purpose of my life personally, is to live masterfully and be deeply loving and contribute to the world. But, this is a meaning I have created. For me, life is a love simulator. I am choosing to create for myself the most powerful framing I can. Which, does include aspects of this buddhist framing but, transcends it.

Have any of you guys awakened to lottery numbers? I'd be very curious if you want to PM and chat hit me up.

"...if you think they are on the wrong path!" Noooooo. Everybody has a unique path. There is no wrong path. If you want to force your truth on your friends, you're likely going to lose friends. I've seen people awakened by the silliest of practices. I've been friends with flat earther's and hollow earthers. I may not agree with their particular view, but I respect their right as Creators to Create the Reality they wish to live in. When my opinion is asked, I give it, but I will not impose Truth on another. Some people don't want to know and that is to be respected. I Am Truthful of my opinion of things always, but at best I will drop hints here and there so that they can find out for themselves. There is no use in trying to force enlightenment or force a worldview; It simply does not work, only leads to arguments. You have to offer it as food for thought. My number one rule in dealing with other Creator Gods is 1. Respect Free Will. Always.

If Leo was truly awake he could hack God’s database and look into his followers brains and see who is awakened and who not.

Be careful of false prophets. @axiomis stuck in neo advaita and, @Flyboy is young and not yet awakened. I know everyone on this forum and I also know their levels of advancement.

A.) No person is enlightened/awakened, Consciousness is conscious, God is God, a person is within Consciousness/God. (You, ultimate you, are not a person) B.) The concept of a person being enlightened or awake IS a concept, you ARE fooling yourselves. I don't know if this is exactly what Leo is saying, but what he's saying is actually TRUE, you just have to remove the human element of Leo that YOU are conceiving. Leo the person is not awake, I think he is taking it upon himself to 'speak on God's behalf', probably drug induced so it's coming out as ego, or a test.

There are infinite degrees to "Awakening". All possible awakening that can or can't exist, exists. God's imagination is unlimited and can create any form of conceptual or actual Awakening possible. It can imagine a so call absolute awakening from some human perspective, but it can also imagine infinite ways to go beyond that awakening. Because it's all infinite, and because you can only recall your direct experience of infinity when you are in your human perspective (which is a finite recollection of the experience of the infinite) it is possible for you as a human to continuously experience/remember higher and higher degrees of infinity compared to the amount you had remembered/experienced prior. But as God, all possible awakening and existence are all happening beyond time in infinite ways. You as God can experience all the infinite possibilities of "Spiritual Awakening" that existence can possibly experience and come back as a human retaining only an infinitely small portion of the whole of that experience. You can even consciously know how many infinite lifetimes, existence, or dimensions you've experienced, but you will likely only be able to recall, with detail, an infinite fraction of the whole once you are back to the human perspective. Because otherwise the sheer amount of information will melt your human brain. However, since you are God, you can remove, or at least lessen that limitation if you wish, the amount of infinity you can retain can change through God's will, and if you have a deep desire to continue exploring/experiencing higher degrees of Awakening or infinity, then you shall create that in your direct experience. There is always more, or higher, or beyond a certain awakening to be had because God is infinite, it can just keep creating infinite possibilities to entertain itself. You might continue to experience higher and higher infinity for infinite times/lifetimes/existence until you reach the extreme of the infinite of infinite of infinite... You might then go back to the most limiting perspective of a little human, and in that contrast, you can experience the infinite beauty of yourself. The degree and love you have for yourself that you can create and experience all of yourself. (In human language this experience seems linear in time, but to God, it's all happening outside of time, or in infinite time) You can experience being the "organ" of a higher dimensional being but within yourself containing an infinite universe that contains endless lifeforms and beings, and then zoom into the hair of one of the infinite alien beings, and find that within the hair it contains another infinite existence in a completely different dimension, and so on. You might even remember the non-human sensation of being these higher dimensional beings, or the vibration/language that are non-human. Even though just a finite recollection of the actual. This is very hard to communicate through human language since it's infinitely paradoxical/strange-loopy. Degrees of infinity can only be measured in one's direct experience to their prior direct experiences. Because it's not possible to mathematically measure infinity, or reduce it to human concepts. And the infinite variety of infinite consciousness makes any comparison obsolete. Only you can, through your direct experience, "know" in human terms how awakened you are. And depends on how much of the infinite you can retain as a human, the human perspective can feel so infinitely small and limiting. Most human concepts of awakening refer to the understanding/being of the infinite/God, which is true, but beyond that awakening exists infinite more awakenings. Most humans are satisfied with the first because compared to their human experience, just an infinite fraction of God is enough for them to stop seeking. But some people are more curious than others, so they can continue to explore infinite consciousness and discover new forms of conscious experiences.

Why do you use the word "alien"? Do you want to express that it's very different to human intelligence or what? Two years ago you thought you were very awakened but you didn't know anything about this alien intelligence right? Anyway, I am clear about my objective with this work. always go deeper, break all barriers. I don't think there is an end, just keep going deeper and deeper.

I agree that the proof is in the spiritual pudding. Many people claim to have transformative realizations, but if they still suffer how are these realizations different from the manipulations of the egoic mind? The journey is not only about understanding what you are not, but about directly realizing what you are, and thereby dissolving the personal attachments that cause you to suffer. The vast majority of content on this forum is about proclaiming profound insights, rather than doing the spiritual work of surrendering to the reality of yourself. If you still suffer, you have not yet fully realized or surrendered. When I first woke up, I went through quite a long period of time where my suffering was all but gone. I naïvely assumed that this awakened state was permanent, when in reality it was not. To the contrary, it was followed by an even darker period of suffering than I was in before I awakened. I now realize why this deeper suffering was necessary, and am grateful for what it taught me. Again, I find myself no longer suffering, but it is a deeper realization than before. It's like the first awakening was the birth of an infant that was cradled until it was ready to learn to walk. Love set me on my own feet, and I felt utterly abandoned until I finally found my way to the other side. Is the suffering permanently gone? I suppose it again depends on how well I have learned its lessons.

Maybe what I say is partialistic, but any belief can become a block, unconsciousness. Leo said an example that somebody can say to himself that "I don't know, everything is realtive while I eat unhealthy food" . Or when somebody want to impress others by talking only in scientifical style, but he comform to this pattern and then he can't speak in other way. So doesn't matter if he awakened that there are infinite number of all-powerful god, he can turn it into a lower and lower belief, until it become lower belief than the other beliefs, and that we call comforted to that pattern, block.

Yeah It's kind of depressing how little spirituality affects political views. Zen masters openly supported japanese imperialism and Buddhists perpetrated genocide in Myanmar. Really put me off Buddhism and zen. were those people awake? and is it possible for awakened people to support fascism and genocide and other devilry?