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If you guys wanna talk about suicide and teachings, the standard scientific view of being a conglomerate of mass and energy in a completely dumb universe almost made me kill myself, and in the process, I did great harm to my family and relationships. That's spread out far and wide, without any love or care. It took me years of epistemology and psychedelics to finally break through my limited physicalist view. And that's the mainstream view. When I did that, I came across Actualized.org and Leo never sounded far out or incompassionate, it is just that most people are simply so far from the most basic spiritual realizations and those beyond that, that you sound arrogant when you say that they have no idea what they're talking about. I tell you that they don't. I have had trips that had me disgusted with myself. I couldn't stop crying and seeing how foolish and nearsighted I was all my life. And I'm just beginning my work. I still have plenty of experiences ahead of me. It is challenging work that puts everything you take as truth as an illusion. That's the point of it. It requires looking to the bottom of the precipice of life and leaning forward as hard as you can without falling. Only this will bring you light. As a good Brazilian, I shall share a free translation of mine of a piece of the incredible book "The Devil to Pay in the Backlands" (Grande Sertão Veredas, in the original title), by Guimarães Rosa. That's a poetic description of the truth-seeking work that many people took in life and how difficult it is to do it. Hope you guys enjoy it: The flow of life wraps everything up, Life is like that: it heats up and cools down, it tightens and then loosens, it calms down and then relaxes. What it wants from us is courage. What God wants is to see us learning to be capable of being too happy, in the midst of joy, and even more joyful in the midst of sadness! Life invents! We begin things, not knowing why, and from then on loses the power to continue because life is everyone's collective effort, by everyone, stirred and tempered. The most important and beautiful thing in the world is this: that people are not always the same, they are not yet finished, but that they are always changing. They tune or go out of tune. Greater truth. Living is very dangerous; no it isn't. I don't even know how to explain these things. One feeling is that of the one that let himself feel, but another is of the feeler.*" *(The way that Portuguese verbs conjugate make this last sentence very hard to explain, but it portrays passive observation of feelings versus active search for an emotion/sensation)

It's a complex issue. What happens is rather than thinking for one's self, they place all they have into their guru - and then when their guru "let's them down" they blame the guru - when in truth, they should never have given their mind away to another human being. I don't care who it is - the President of the United States or Elvis Presley. They are human and that makes them limited. The suicide thing is a personal decision...no one can be blamed for someone taking their own life. That is a decision they made. Unless it's a case where someone told them to do it because it would bring them to a certain place for.example, or give them something they don’t already have, and they were so brainwashed that they believed them. That would be a cult. That's not what the case is here. Here we stress free thought, and embrace the human condition.

How many Buddhist’s have committed suicide? Not to mention the one who set himself on fire! People unfortunately kill themselves. I don’t believe you can blame Leo?

I can see how some of the things would be conducive to suicide for an already unstable person, it's terrible that happens and I think everyone here wants to try to prevent it in the future. Not to be a smart ass but lookup Christian Pastor suicides, happens all the time man. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/why-pastors-are-committing-suicide/ Why Pastors Are Committing Suicide Nov 23, 2016 — Sarah Zylstra reports on a rising epidemic among pastors of loneliness, depression, mental illness, and even suicide.

@Jodistrict I've never said Ayahuasca cannot heal physical illnesses. I've said that it's inappropriate to use it simply for that cause. It's like using stacks of steroids to fix libido issues when you could just use doctor-prescribed TRT or viagra. You don't need a volcano to fix your heating issues. You don't need a lake to get a drink of water when you have a fountain or sink nearby. If you need physical healing, there are other non-psychedelic ways of fixing them. Using a consciousness sledgehammer to fix your issues has very severe consequences and unintended impacts on human lives. For example, what if the person enters into states of consciousness so profound, unintended, and cause irrefutable harm to themselves? What if that person brewed up deep depression and committed suicide? I've seen enough people on Reddit that have used the Ayahuasca brew and had unintended and significant consequences to their physical well-being and relationships. They will never go to a ceremony or trust another Shaman again. You're playing a very serious game here. The only person here who is spreading misinformation is you, no? Wouldn't you be so loving to tell a person that Ayahuasca could potentially put them in these states and could lead to danger? You're missing a very plain point, which shows you don't even take Ayahuasca seriously as much as you do the Indigenous people. @Leo Gura I do see how I could be projecting how Ayahuasca affects me, I will be more careful next time. It's very unfortunate because it's very profound and deep. It has allowed me to experience Infinite Daemonic Love; I've also figured out how ghosts are infinitely looping itself; I've also imagined ghosts in other forms; I've also realized how haunting is love, as well as spiritual possessions. I've also imagined all of paranormal/supernatural activities; i've also created layers of psychic abilities based on these realizations. I also can put my consciousness in more pure states of consciousness. Too bad I cannot be sharing half of this stuff.

think of a middle ages peasant going about their life. they live a brutal existence, but most of them don’t commit suicide. they instead create more humans who live in a slightly less brutal world. fast forward today, humans still deal with overwhelming amounts of suffering but most people don’t kill themselves and for the most part people who try to and fail are glad they failed. and I thought life was the problem. Lmao, fuck no. life is beautiful.

@The Mystical Man If thousands of people lives are changed for the better because of Leo's teachings and 2 people commit suicide, should he take all his videos down?

@Leo Gura The "complete run" applies to everything since your life is the only thing that exists. You view politics as the domain of the relative because you still think dying today is worse than dying 30 years later. It all comes back to the "all paths are the same" theory. Although it's not a theory, it's the absolute truth. I know it's hard to see how every curse turns into a blessing and how every blessing turns into a curse. Dying today is no different than dying 30 years later when it comes to pleasure-pain. It's all the same really. Please try contemplating dying today vs dying when you're 85. What's the difference? Contemplate suicide vs dying of old age. Which is more painful really?

Saying that someone suicided specifically because of spiritual work is a bold claim. When I was suicidal, I wanted to kill myself because of nihilism, but when I got older and integrated some matters more properly, I saw the amount of trauma and other matters that were involved in that ideation, that were condensed behind a "Nothing matters, etc.". The reason for that person's suicide is the reason that took him to start spiritual work. The spiritual work was not responsible for it, this work is challenging but it is healing. It doesn't make you want to die, it gives you the tool for you to finally live. That being said, to anyone reading this, if you're depressed or have PTSD, be aware that psychedelics are extremely dangerous to people with those conditions and should not be taken by them.

@The Mystical Man People have commited suicide after break ups. Should we ban and cancel human relationships from now on?

This is true. Like, ideally you aren’t just watching Leo all day. If all you do is listen to Leo, you are being a moron. If you think Leo is better than you, you are a moron. If you think Leo is God or calling himself God and not you, you are a moron. If you think Leo wants you to commit suicide, you are a moron. Or, at least being a moron in that way. You should be so in love with life that you want to learn from all the great teachers. Should want to honour your life. Don’t just sit around watching Actualized.org for 7 years, not socializing or taking action to improve your life then blame Leo because YOU were lazy. My thing is, I love learning. I read books, watch lectures, study ideas, philosophy, self help, etc…. I love the whole self help field and and becoming a philosopher. Each teacher has their own style. I like Leo, and I like the forum. I don’t think Leo is like, my friend or something. He doesn’t hold hands, and give you a hug. But, I think he loves the God in me. That I know.

The book list is actually the best thing about Actualized. That way you can learn about other teachers, and then you don't really need Gura anymore. That's how I "escaped" Gura. I know that not everyone will have the same experience with Actualized, but one suicide is one suicide too many, and there are already two or three suicides -- that we know of.

Leo’s view on suicide in 10 minutes Leo talking about mastering life

@lostingenosmaze At the 44:50 mark he clearly states that his friend was NOT a fan of Leo Gura. It's disingenuous to attribute his suicide to actualized.org. Spirituality can be extremely dangerous so we have to be careful in our approach to it. What is the effect that you want to have on your students if ultimately you don't care about their well-being? What you are currently doing is talking on a public forum (youtube) to impressionable young people. You have an effect on people and it's best that you are aware of the effect. To make an extreme analogy, I can also go to a kindergarten and yell at the kids that Santa is not real. Is it true? Yes. Is it effective? Yes. But at the end of my ordeal, I leave with lots of crying children. Don't you want to understand compassion? Or compassion is no longer part of your reality? Go to a third-world country where a mother is starving because she gave all the food to her children. Look at her face. Really LOOK at her. Maybe then you will understand.

Recent podcast interviewing Adeptus Psychonautica about the dangers and traps within the spiritual/psychedelic community and the recent developments of actualized.org and the forum. What's really interesting is the host OXSN has his own intimate experience following Leo Gura and even initially defended him when Adeptus made an expose on the Connor Murphy incident. Watch how his journey and close friend's suicide sobered him from his own paradigm and ideology (the details of the suicide were vague as he didn't wish to disclose much; what's revealed is that OXSN did expose his friend to spiritual teachings including those of actualized.org before he ultimately took his own life) Some interesting points within the video: 34:09 "The example I use is like, if you saw a bee, like a buzzy bee but it was not trying to be a bee. It was trying to be a fucking elephant. It would be like 'you fucking bellend', just be a bee, just eat the pollen. Enjoy your life as a bee! Don't pretend to be an elephant, you cannot be an elephant, you're a bee. Be the fucking bee. That's how I feel when I hear all these like, you know, the people who get really obsessed with all the God-Consciousness. And that's not to say there's no value in those thoughts, but the value has got to compile back into a human being. To sit there and go floating about like 'oh, I'm so enlightened, I'm so God-Consciousness' is like, it serves no purpose other than to be like a wanker. But if you could embody that, if you could live your life like, when you come across someone who is like truly spiritual and truly a good person, a true role model: they don't have to tell you how fucking enlightened they are. They don't tell you what a good person they are and how better they because they achieved God-Consciousness. You just know like 'wow, this is a great person'. They don't need to tell you this. So all these people who like beat you over the head with how fucking spiritual they are, I could only assume they don't realize how fucking conterproductive that looks. Because I don't see anything spiritual with, like we say with the sort of 'the Leo Guras' of the world." 50:40 "I've got say, if there's one thing, out of all of Leo's flaws, the one thing I'll pull up on: the guy has like zero compassion and he's so detached from his own experience of a human being that, in my opinion, he doesn't seem to realize the effect he's having on these group of people. So that when he comes out with something really flippant on the forums, or- I'm sure he seems to handle things in his way, and not necessarily had something that's led to what's happened to your friend, but he's answering things in his way with zero understanding and like 'no, these might be people in trouble'. When I've been on the actualized forums, it is an absolute meeting room with very, very definite and very obvious mental issues. There's some serious fucking problems on that forum, and some of the moderators should not be moderating fucking dogshit, in my opinion. But they're all egging each other on and, one of the best descriptions I've ever heard for the kind of behaviors on actualized, which came from one of my friends James Jessal: there's a lot in the way where Leo describes his own activities, which feels like a challenge to the audience. Like 'I did all this 5meO-DMT so it got me here so you should do it'. And the guy will say things like 'you shouldn't do this', but it's a challenge. Like 'if you do this then you get to this level of Consciousness' and 'you just don't understand, you just don't understand, unless you've done it, you just don't understand'. So there's this constant challenging of these very vulnerable, very fragile, very destabilized audience; I just see people's fucking heads explode. Alot of people contact me because they want to talk about that experience. Especially the stuff around solipsism, which to me, it's almost hard to understand how people get so destabilized by that, but whether I get or not, at least I understand that people are going through this. Like people believe in this and they don't necessarily want to believe it. They don't want to believe that their loved ones are figments of their imagination 'but Leo's said it's true so must be true!' It could really fuck people's heads up."

So what if I don't like it? I need to know MORE, ALL. What's the worse that could happen? Suicide? I've seen how I create the illusion of being a body, I've seen that everything is my Mind, I've felt immortal and my room was my divine heaven. I've seen how I was creating my neighbor, I've felt enormous intelligence "backing me up", and more... I also felt like those experiences were the best in my life, the joy of understanding and discovering is better than anything. And I noticed when the little drop of poison (fear) gets in, the whole juice gets bad. That's ego coming back online. And I wouldn't hurt my body.

I tripped on 10gr of dried mushrooms and also on huge amount of mycelium (yeah you can trip on Psylocibe Cubensis mycelium, it depends on a substrate it was colonizing tho) more then a dozen times, lost count long time ago. I don't think it can cause a suicide and stuff like this if you do it responsibly, slowly unceasing your dosage, writing teach trip down/contemplating afterwards and doing regular meditation in a strong determination sitting kind of way. Each huge increase in dosage gives the whole trip a new qualitative aspect. I think each increase by 3-5 grams makes mushroom trips qualitatively different in many aspects. Personally - I'm looking towards trying 15gr and eventually even 40gr of dried mushrooms.

A mental breakdown, trauma, or suicide. Basically any chem can do that at high enough doses. I generally keep my doses moderate, so that I can retain more of the trip. If you blast a high dose you will have an epic trip but you won't be able to retain or remember any of it. But lately I have been experimenting with higher doses. My experiments are not yet complete.

Like from the highest perspective am I killing myself? Lol

What's pretty sad though, is when i had a choice to pierce my heart and i did it. Everything was lead automatically to the truth. I was shown how sad the gods reality actually is, it's just like an infinite small vibration producing alot of heat what we call love in the total void. In that place there is only your thought that goes infinitely=creation and blackness all around for infinity. God operates automatically in that state and does actions that are best for him, that's why we are here because you don't want to be there. I was literally shown everything what all the quotes meant, what suicide is, how the reality of self is constructed, who are others, how dreams work and so on. So appreciate your life that you're here and just enjoy life without much thinking

@Raze this is a good post that I can relate to. As a teen, I was diagnosed with depression. It is very rare to grow up with a functional family. Fatherlessness is Very high, and it leads to all kinds of psychological illnesses. Men are commonly pushed aside unfairly during child custody fights because of the assumption that women are better parents due to men being more likely to be criminals. In my case, my father really was a horrible person. He was a drug dealer who fled the state to avoid paying child support. Even so, a good father and a functioning family is necessary to avoid all kinds of mental illness, yet 1 in 4 Americans grow up without a father. I would imagine that for orphans this is even worse. Oftentimes women are not ready to have a child. This can certainly lead to dysfunctional families. For example, a woman could be a single mother due to unfortunate circumstances, yet she is not allowed to have an abortion. Sometimes this leads a child to constant hunger and the threat of homelessness. I would imagine that this child would have many psychological issues. The opioid crisis is another huge factor. Not only was my dad a drug dealer, but my mom was a drug addict as well. Sometimes mom would start falling asleep while standing up and picking at her skin. Very often she would get into fights with my step father causing destruction throughout the house. A rise in opioid addiction would certainly cause children a wide range of mental health issues. Alcoholism is certainly another factor. My depression started when I was very young and I was unhappy with life in general. I often wondered how it was that I existed at all. I didn't believe in religion because it was too constraining and holds people back from viewing life from many different perspectives. These underlying existential issues lead to a sense of meaninglessness and often suicidal thoughts. This is a big factor in widespread mental illness. It coincides with the decline of religion due to things like the sex scandals. As more and more people become divorced from religion, they may lose various psychological benefits which were provided through religion. If the psychological benefits of religion are good enough to prevent some people from committing suicide (which it is), then it makes sense that suicide rates would rising. As someone with autism, I felt like a social outcast when I failed to act the way everyone wanted me too. I felt like it was my fault for following my natural impulses that make me happy. This reinforced that belief that I do not deserve to be happy. People with autism have very high suicide rates, and the same is true for other neuro divergents like maybe schizophrenia or transgender people. Persecution against the mentally ill existed in all human civilizations since the dawn of time and it leads to things like insane asylums. Don't forget about heavy metals, pfas, and micro plastics. Our food and water is polluted and it is causing people brain damage. Sometimes people start wanting to shoot up a school, but when the brain damage is corrected, they lose this desire. Heavy metals are poorly understood, the epa and fda guidelines are severely outdated and there are carcinogens in our food, and the American standard diet is horrible anyway. This causes all kinds of mental and physical illnesses. As others mention, social media is certainly a huge factor. It messes with our brain chemistry and is addicting like crack. There have been studies done on things like porn addiction as well. It coincides with a sense of meaninglessness. America is a mentally ill nation. Just one of the things I mentioned above is enough to cause people depression, yet many of these are wrapped up into one for nearly everybody. Do not be surprised when so many people are committing suicide and we constantly feel socially isolated. It is no wonder that America is in the current state that it is. Maybe if you are referring to social media. This idea does not account for opioid addiction and fatherlessness.

data has shown a rise in minors reporting mental health problems https://imgur.com/LQErnFn https://imgur.com/3lq6BL0 It likely isn’t just being more likely to report it, as the rate of self harm and suicide has also increased https://imgur.com/QQSSVsU https://imgur.com/Mngt0SN https://imgur.com/jfsevzp https://imgur.com/zzrVE8m The risk factors seem to be being white, female, and liberal https://imgur.com/xznQzBM Interestingly, conservative girls report less depressive symptoms than liberal males https://imgur.com/xSeagrn What do you think is causing it, and what are the solutions?

Why is all-in a good startegy? He apparently fled failed the physical test and was enlisted by an error. Nicola Geier knew him, these are stories from retreats with Shinzen or from his aduibooks lol, she had to serve for Hitler and was also like me Germerican for simplicities sake. Hitler pushed her down the stairs according to the story and he was an real asshole. She and many other stream enteres can tell according from a "Jewish" person Shinzen, that he spoke from no-self at times. Basically stream-entry. Maybe Nicola Geiger reported this, yet these are stories from people closer to this time period. If he'd had real balls he'd commit suicide and apologize to this folk, for misleading them, maybe it was better with some technical knowledge, I don't know how much Germany had to pay back during WW1. Somehow she lived in Japan she called Shinzen Stefan, even if his real name is Steve. I don't think with that comment that and sorry for saying this you read any books in your life all your comments are based on authority and 0 wisdom and knowledge, neither anything of value that I don't already know as if have heared, it'll be some sort of regurgitation. That comment shows me why I will take everything in power to move to the U.S this level of blindless following. I respect every German who crossed their arms and did not make a "Hitlergruß" I dunno. I don't like technical details about history... it's fairly easy to remember them and the debate quality of the stuff, I never had a proper discussion, besides with a few more aware humans. As it's about the worldview and intuition for me. I checked some other stuff for me and good old hitty both being Infj tells me plenty about this guy's thinking, I dunno where you are going, without facts and data we are getting no where. I feel bad for him to let himself be tricked by his own mind. Understanding Hitler is a waste of time for me personally, I've had enough history lessons with straight A's about WW-2 it's such boring regulations. This has nothing to with facts, yet with understanding the mind. If you'd partially understood Hitler, you would feel bad for him like OP and have some heart for him to win the war. You comment legit showed me why I move my ass from Germany. I can't believe how sheepish this country is. As well as creat world domination, that is true authority like an arbiter. Trust me I most likely get more inspired watching this as you ever will. For me you lacka global view, I bet you also never lived in another country, nor seen a military facility.

Please convince me to die, because as I see it, there is no way to move forwards. My roots are cut, unbelievable. If only I knew in the past what I know now... if only I knew. Some people are disgusting and suffocating. I might be that to you, cause everything is relative. There is no way that I'll commit suicide. Simply no way. No because I'm afraid of the pain and of disappearing, but because I'm angry at many people and don't seea good reason why I should die, while they should have it all when I'm better than them.

This kinda gives suicide bombers/9/11-hijackers a whole different perspective. Surrendering yourself to God/Allah. I guess the fastest way to realize your true nature without all the hassle Lol.