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I see. That all makes more sense to me. Pickup coach Tom Torero committed suicide last year.

Because as with anything, you gotta do it with the right intentions. I think most people get better over time, not worse. But you have to keep in mind how bad they were when they started off. Of course there will be exceptions of people who only use it to get laid and don't improve character. It's not really that pickup grew my character, I had good character to begin with. But pickup rounded me out as a man and allowed for development opportunities. I don't know of any who have committed suicide.

If doing constant cold approach and dating leads to major growth of character then why there have been pickup/dating coaches who have become toxic or are still psychological messed up? Why have some committed suicide?

@Leo Gura I received some other benefits from pickup: 1) better social skills: I was unable to make good guy friends and now I met 3 guys 2 weeks ago and we have become like best friends and we are each others wingmen. 2) don't give a f attitude: after getting rejected I became mentally stronger and don't think of suicide at all back then I felt suicidal when one girl rejected me but till now I have been rejected by 19-21 girls and I don't care lol feel alpha. 3) less fears: I used to be really intimidated by people especially dangerous looking men but not Anymore not as much as before. 4) learned better fashion: back then I used to look like a homeless teenager but after I started gaming I am taking more care of myself hence looking really professional. I still lack a lot of social skills but getting better.

So Dr Robert Moore probably did not kill his wife and commit suicide but it's his wife who did so.

Except it doesn't - you can see depression skyrocketing and a lot of kids are suicidal as well. Traditional stuff doesn't seem to be enough to address complex mental health problems we have right now. We know that transitioning works for people with gender dysphoria, so why be so against it, when it is well documented that it works and no other method let alone traditional method work, and no data suggest that any other method would be anywhere near close as effective and succesful. There is no going back no matter how much you want to outlaw it or how much you want to make it impractical. Again, what you do is making a bigger black market for it , and people will have to move to other countries to have access to this medical treatment. You won't solve this problem ,you will just make a bigger problem + you will make it harder for people to try to treat this problem. Also its not like suddenly people will never ever mention these things ever again, more and more people will going to talk about these things, your idea won't and wouldn't stop any of it. I still don't understand how you see this "argument" or thought process sound. You want to make it so that children don't have any access to this, and then you don't provide any alternative, even though these children would be left with high depression and suicide rates. You don't solve any root issue with this, and at the same time you would take away the only well known solution/treatment regarding on this topic. Nowhere near as harmful compared to not providing any other alternative treatment to this problem.

No, I don't. How far would you give with that logic? Should we destroy all modern medical technology? The argument of "sometimes having too much option is bad" is only good or a sounding argument, if the alternative of "not having any or having less option" is a better alternative, but how could you argue that the lack of option in this case creates a better outcome , when all the relevant factors (suicide rate, depression) - still stays high among these people?

I don't have experience with BPD in my personal life. My best friend is a therapist who works mainly with BPD type patients though. I will take the liberty of sharing why I think he said that. I think he's just referring to the tendency to overreact to abandonment triggers and do something drastic like suicide, or reckless like drive drunk and crash. Overall this clinical type view of BPD and similar disorders makes me sad. It's like they are taking as much distance as they can from it. Viewing them as aliens almost. To be inspected in a lab coat. I kind of get why. If you don't dehumanize them, you might find out you have more in common with them than you would like. "selfishness, ..." What the fuck dude. These people are in massive pain and you're going to diagnose them with selfishness? From my understanding, hearing and reading about these things, there's a direct correlation between BPD and growing up with an emotionally immature, abusive parent. Usually the mother is an unsafe character that they can not form a healthy attachment with. They had to be afraid of the mother's mood swings. Nowhere to turn for safety and nurture. And then still psychiatrists want to put them in a box and say "something's inherently wrong with you", and give them very superficial therapy like DBT. It's a travesty.

We know from scientific data, that transitioning has a huge positive impact on their depression and suicide rates. More reserach needs to be done, but an intelligent person should go with what the data is suggesting right now, based on our current knowledge on the subject (especially when literally your life depends on it). When you evauluate something it can't just be one side, if you criticize these methods you always have to take a look at the alternative where there is no transitioning and the suicide and depression rates are still knowingly really high. Even if thats the case, there still haven't been shown any method that would have remotely close the success rates to tranisitioning, when it comes to lowering depression and suicide rate among these people.

The effect of dopamine. And how modern life impacts the psyche. Although I don't agree with her that the richest countries have highest suicide. That's a convenient lie.

@Rafael Thundercat Nice I will dive deep into this it seems like an intresting story ? (it is a bit late now where I'm). @Thought Art Yes ofcourse everyone needs to have those stories. My red pill turning point let's say happpened in Brazil 3 years ago with a girl I met that healed me. (I was not extreme with the red pill stuff just did not connect fully with a women at that level before). Now I'm leading a comunity of engineers so we can work together to overcome problems in the industry it is not so big with no online presence at the moment. I have a trans story, which opened my mind to some problems related with this topic. Politics I'm fighting with people all the time from their perspective, I think both have major issues. Basiclly, if I met a conservative I bring issues from the left and vice versa. I'm trying to move a friend from alcholism and tendencies of suicide, not going so well but it is a trial and error. But enough about me, this is the point of my topic, try to heal people and gain experience in doing so, offer practical advice. Ok you belive in red pill stuff have you tried to trully understand women? Did you actually feel loved by one? Try to see things from a solution based perspective with arguments they cannot ignor, deep down all of opinions come from ourselves.

Attention! All of the bellow mentioned is just a theoretical discussion and not a plan of action! I've been doing psychedelics for the last 4 years and had plenty of profound awakenings. Recently I begun to question the validity of all my trips and awakenings. What if an awakening is just hallucinations? When I’m tripping, I know absolutely that I’m God and playing my infinite game, but when I’m back to the dream I just can’t accept it. Is there a doubt free way to get the true answer and not only during a trip? I’ve been thinking about it and the only way I can think of is suicide. For example If I shoot myself in the head I would be 100% sure whether I’m God or all of this is just pure horseshit. What do you think?

@Carl-Richard It also swings the other way too, when that happens, people who hate Leo for his ideas would use that against him and disregard why the suicide actually happened, thinking Leo's the only full cause when there are other factors involved. Leo also has given warnings and disclaimers, but that doesn't stop someone editing it out and make Leo appear reckless.

We already have it for people too, though technically it's assisted suicide. It's illegal to euthanize another person (mercy killing). It's gotta be done by your own hand basically. https://www.exit.ch/en/englisch/faq/

There is no high rate of suicide on the forum. The rate is as it is across society at large. And no, I will not be bending over backwards to save mentally ill people. That's not my work. I teach advanced philosophy. I am not interested in suicide. If you need help with that, find a therapist. I am not your therapist. My only advice to you on this matter is: don't harm your physical body. If you don't want to follow my advice, then do it your way, but then I am not responsible for your results.

@Leo Gura I think you should start collaborating with mental health professionals to deal with the alarmingly high rates of suicide on this forum.

It's funny, nobody ever listens to the part where I say: "Don't ever hurt your physical body, and your life is a miracle and a gift." I released a video specifically saying this called: The Dangers Of Spirutual Work I didn't release that after, I released that before any suicide. When Conor emailed me saying he was gonna kill himself, I spent an hour on the phone talking him down. I didn't do that after, I did that before any suicide. People are free to kill themselves any time. That's none of my business. I teach God, which has nothing to do with suicide, and there is no confusion about that in my work. No sane person listening to my work would get the idea that I am telling you to harm yourself. Why would I teach about health if my plan was for you to kill yourself? These "death cult" accusations are so disingenuous and bad faith it's preposterous.

Why is EVERY generic Youtube cynic/skeptic bro some early 20's dipshit who hasn't accomplished anything in life, but somehow give off the impression they know everything ? They all have the same sarcastic, passive aggressive cadence in their voice too. As well as having this disarming charm that they could be your friend, but God forbid you ever hear what they say behind your back. The worst kind of rat. I swear this criticizing random people and bitching about culture shtick is the easiest grift you can do online. All you need is a decent mic and clever gamer tag and you could get 200K subs in less than a year. All your content is already made for you by millions of people out in the world trying to create something of this life (whether it's "good" or not). Also I didn't want to say it at the time, but I think enough time has passed. From what I read there wasn't any publicly available proof that that certain person committed suicide, unless they disclosed some evidence privately that I wasn't aware of. It all coincidently happened around the time Connor Murphy was having his psychedelic induced mental breakdown and hardcore trolling this forum and harassing Leo with videos. Connor literally said, "I am going to fake my own death". Then a short time later the suicide drama happened on this forum. I'm not one for conspiracy but that is just my theory. I'm completely open to that not being the case though.

I think suicide should be legalized in general. Check out this suicide pod in Switzerland:

Would be good to know. Considering the base suicide rate in the world is about 1/10 000, probably 1-10 every video (assuming unique viewers).

@zurew Did he ever respond to that? I agree the part about manipulating women is worthy of criticism and he should be receive push back for that. But again suicide and manipulating women into cam work, i still think suicide is more problematic

@Carl-Richard Rupert's audience is not even in the same world as Leo's. Look at Rupert's comments section and his audience, you aren't seeing a lot of schizo and mentally young people. And I think Rupert has his own flaws and I think that title is worth criticizing, but again it's in the same realm as what Leo does. Leo's harm is caused by his lack of empathy for his audience and his arrogance and narcissism in how he expresses his views. It's pretty dishonest to compare Rupert's video to how Leo has dealt with the topic of death and suicide on the foum

His comments about women/dating are probably the number one criticism Leo gets on here. Actually Leo gets criticised a fair bit on here thinking about it. I haven’t seen any especially bad comments about dating/women from Leo in a while so it seems like he at least has the ability to change his own behaviour. Same goes for the suicide issue. I haven’t seen any especially bad one liners that might directly inspire someone to do anything stupid in a long time. There are also many disclaimers that you should not follow actualized.org content if you’re not mentally stable and in a good place. I don’t really know what more he could do whilst also still teaching his ideas. There is plenty to criticise Leo for but it still feels like a stretch to say he’s on the same level of toxicity as someone like Tate. Certainly not 10x more.

Where is the clear evidence of sex trafficking? Where is the evidence of him grooming CHILDREN? Where is the evidence of him stealing money? This is stuff is all hearsay and circumstantial, you don't actually know the truth about any of these things. What happened to guilty until proven innocent? There's a charitable interpretation to everything you wrote but you're too dense and biased to see it. Might be the autism flaring up. I can show you where Leo displayed a gross negligence in expressing harmful beliefs that likely led many people to suicide or psychosis. I can show you where Leo has admitted to going out and picking up and being with women who are drunk/under the influence while he's sober. I can show you where Leo talked about going to a women's apartment who was so drunk she was virtually passed out and he barely decided not to get with her. Again, I really don't want to drag Leo here but the hypocrisy is something else here and i'm getting tired of Leo feeding the fire with his grift.

@Carl-Richard @Thought Art So we've had two suicides on the forum. Leo has countless times expressed the view in jest that there is no death, death is love, etc. Imagine how a suicidal person would interpret this? It's also clear that this forum is populated by suicidal people so the fact that Leo still expressed those views with such little regard for the psychology of his audience is grossly negligent. Being grossly negligent towards an impressionable suicidal audience and expressing views as an authority that clearly would enhance the likely hood that someone would commit suicide is pretty BAD if you ask me. Also look at how Leo treats and views women as evidenced by the countless posts in the dating section forum. Leo has no integrity when it comes to dating and women, and yet he continuously gives advice to young men about "conscious relating" lol, and if your goal is form healthy relationships with women then Leo is doing a huge disservice. To be honest I could go way harder, but my main point is that this forum is full of hypocrites who demonize Tate and give their guru a pass. But i've said enough penetrating things about Leo for now. Asks yourselves if we could see Leo's history in dating and how he functioned in business what would we see? Is it possible Leo has skeletons in his closet too? I'm sure anyone with any imagination can imagine some of the shady stuff that Leo's done in his life, he just never triggered the wrong people for it to backlash onto him.