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Me: You are a horrible God. What do you have to say for yourself? Him: I already told you, let me speak. Go find what you are seeking for and I'll do the best I can to help you and guide you to the right people. Me: I don't believe you. You are lying. I am afraid that you cannot do anything to protect me and you won't do anything actually. Cause you don't exist. You are limited to my body and you cannot control anything outside of that. You have a hard time controlling even my body. Him: What do you want me to say? I am sorry. If you don't like the world the way it is, the way I made it, you are free to leave any time you wish. Although maybe you might be prevented from leaving in the future if you stay a bit longer by people in order to make you suffer immensly. Me: Yeah, well, then it is better that I leave, isn't it? I want to give money to this site, I want it to grow and become famous around the world. But me giving my money to it before suicide might just leave it in a worse state. What do you suggest I do with the money? Him: Ask about charities on the forum. Ask about that. I just have to tell you that if you left your parents other people would come after you to make sure that you have no option but to return home to them and then you will again feel this way. Come to me and everything will be fine. Me: Yes, I know that. Thank you for reminding me. This world is not mine and I am too sick to fight for my rights. They took the world and everything in it. All the knowledge and wealth is theirs, now all they have to do is take care of their enemies and I am one of their enemies. I wish you avenged me, but you can't if you are gone after I die. Him: You'll be fine. Don't worry about that. Everything is gonna be fine. They won't go unpunished. Karma has its ways. Me: But I don't believe in Karma and this stuff. Reincarnation is a fairytale. Him: Where do you want to go in your next life? It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, you'll either be sleeping or going somewhere else. Me: Hmm... I, I want to go exactly where I am now! Just in such good circumstances that I don't have to leave.

As someone with many years on the spiritual path I will wish to remind you that focusing too much time/energy on the 3rd eye will leave you ungrounded and unbalanced and unable to integrate. Focus on your Heart chakra, Root chakra and Crown chakra. The rest will balance. I met far too many people 'all over the place' because they forced energy only on the third eye, especially substance abusers. Many turn depressed and cannot make sense of reality anymore, some end up suicide or in mental institutes. This is why there is Master(guru) and student(disciple).

@Fadious It keeps showing up in these situations because life (parents and caretakers, siblings, "friends") conditioned you since childhood and teenage years to act that way. It's usually a deeply imbedded pattern which is hard to redirect even when you are conscious during these situations. it can also be anger towards yourself because you go over your own boundaries by (seemingly) allowing people to do as they please. When starting out on the journey of expressing repressed emotions, watch out for feeling overly chaotic inside and feeling that these emotions are too much for you. Perhaps even thoughts of self-harm and suicide can come up in order to avoid feeling these repressed emotions. That shows that the steps taken towards expression were too big. Make tiny steps. They will suffice for processing and you feeling free after some emotional work.

If you're seriously contemplating suicide, as @r0ckyreed said seek professional help. You aren't seeing clearly. Yes there are rare exceptions, for example euthanasia for people in extraordinary and inescapable pain. But the vast majority of suicides are people seeking escape from the demons of their mind, in the mistaken belief that their demons can't be dissolved. You created this form and its existence for a reason. Instead of tossing it aside, dive into it and realize the absolute love within that created this form in the first place.

Please call 988 if you are in the United States. Speak to an Existential Therapist for professional support. Suicide isn’t going to solve any problems for you. You need to focus on solving the Matrix. It can be done. There is hope. Focus on your awakening and your basic needs.

I wonder why in Spirituality there is a (justified) habit of keeping open-minded to nearly everything, except...suicide. I remember Leo said in one blog post that suicide was Ego selfish act, I would want to know why. I can´t see why suicide is a ego selfish act and improving your life using other´s resources (for example) isn´t. Please don´t understand this as an encouragement for suicide! It´s not. I´m just trying to have a interesting (i hope) discussion that in other online sites i surely couldn´t because it probably would be censored/banned.

Stage blue choosing suicide over facing the transformational dilemma (Javert from Les Misérables)

Oh God. I just realized we'll have a thread like this on this forum every week for the rest of my life. Now I understand suicide.

If I commit suicide, will anyone else suffer? I would like a clear answer on this, especially from @Leo Gura if possible. The way I see it just now, this life is pretty much fucked and I just want to be done with it. The shit I have learned about nonduality has utterly destroyed me and on top of that I have to keep going back and forward to a job within a meaningless existence. The darkness and emptiness is utterly vast and unrelenting. If what Leo says about reality is true, in theory I could kill myself and nobody else would suffer as I deamt them all up anyway. If this is true, then I think it is the best course of action. Maybe I will come back into another life and never hear of this stuff again. If others will suffer as a result, I will keep myself going as long as I can for their sake.

@Leo Gura Well, that's true we do have a high suicide and suffer a lot from self hatred. The difference is the hatred is more internalised than external. Take a look at this way, the right has pushing this anti-trans narrative for years now, calling us groomers and all sorts of nasty things I won't repeat here. When you see public figures and celebrities jumping on the bandwagon, exaggerating how "woke" and "snowflakey" we are and you see politicians pushing forward laws that intend to push us away from public life, on top of that you already have gender dysphoria and may have family or friends that disowned you for being transgender, of course you're start hating yourself.

Even though you often talk about that everything is relative, you don't live up to that nihilistic notion, because you would be already dead . In order for you to survive, you have to have a hierarchical valuesystem, where your survival is somewhat up there alongside with other things. Having meaning and values in your life is an essential and a core part of your survival. So, yes, you do follow certain set of rules and values and yes you will necessarily follow something that is up at the highest level is your valuesystem and you can't and won't espace that. You don't just do random shit to achieve what you want to achieve, you do a specific set of practices to get there and you have beliefs about which ones are more effective and which ones are not. This is the thing you guys always forget with the constant "I don't have rules and beliefs" is that you will necessarily follow some patterns and practices regardless if you acknowledge it or realise it or not; and you will act accordingly. The problem is that if you don't have a religion you will have to reinvent the wheel (all the elements that religion gives - that are part and necessary elements of your survival) in an often times unconcious manner and chaotic way. The maximum you can say is that your system is somewhat dynamic (you will excluide and include certain things in your system), but even that dynamic element has some patterns to it and you don't just use randomness when it comes to exclusion and inclusion. In the relative world its not all relative, and we can use empirical data and science to massively help your realize which path will fit you better. You can set a up a system (that can be dynamic and forever evolving) that can help you with the choosing process accordingly all the known stuff and empirical data at that particular time. Yes doing this algorithmic process is limited, but as I said you will follow your own algorithmic process anyway, that will be often times unconscious and chaotic asf, filled with a bunch of assumptions. Your example is also not necessarily applicaple this time, because what we are talking about is much more essential and necessary than just education. Its like if you would say "there are people who need water and there are people who don't" - no, people do need water in order to survive. With the integration of statistics and science we could literally demonstrate which values will lead to a more fulfilling life and which ones will lead you to suicide and depression and to other bad stuff. Pretending that all values will lead to an equally happy, effective, and fulfilling life or to God, would be ignorant ( so this "everthing is relative" bullshit needs to fly out the window in the context of this conversation). If you would have a system where only your feelings would dictate everything , you would probably be dead or in prison right now. You can have a system, where your feelings are integrated and have a very special place and a specific purpose. Thats where the integration of science and empirical data comes in. You can set up a constantly evolving dynamic system and track what the most common dynamics, practices are, that are often times necessary for Awakening. There are general patterns to everything, and first trying those general practices (that statiscally lead most people to Awakening) is much better than you being forced to do and try all shit on your own, with your limited time and money. When you make a critique, you automatically have to recognise whats the alternative that you argue for --> Doing shit randomly or what? If we recognize that God is the highest value, then we have to make it somewhat tangible (and btw we all do this, including Leo, because looking at all the fucking threads made about awakening, he clearly made distinctions between awakening to God and other types of awakening) - so we might as well do the "making of the highest value tangible" in a collective, conscious way. So here is a process. 1) Recognition/acceptance of a common highest value 2) Defining that highest common value in a tangible way, in order to be able to measure if you are moving towards or moving away from that value. You will do both of these steps regardless if you have religion or not. You will define a highest value for your own self, and you will try to make it tangible, because you will want to measure if you are going towards it or going away from it. Now, once both of those things are established, we can start the measuring process and the exclusion process (excluding things that doesn't lead to that highest value)

Because I had this inner feeling that was pushing me on high doses. It has nothing to do with ego, it's pure curiosity. I guess I have it in order not to fall asleep forever. On the other hand, I'm also dump :)) I thought that I'm an expert in tripping on shrooms. I was wrong. I also thought I had reached the highest possible states on 5MeO-Mdt. Again, I was wrong. 10 - 15 minutes after taking shrooms. I had this gut feeling that something big is about to happen. "I've got God's balls this time" - I was thinking to myself. I was excited to see what happens. The rest of the trip (6+ hours). I was laying on my bed with my eyes closed. I was seeing some colours and shapes and I was trying to zoom into them as much as possible. And then I realized I'm God and I'm good by my nature. I started crying and wimping because I had always thought I'm really bad and not right! And the next moment my realization that I'm God became even deeper. "Oh fuck no-no-no" I was saying opening my eyes. I was seeing the same "objects", but this time there was no object. It was something I didn't know exactly what. Paradoxically I knew that I was constructing my experience, but at the same time I didn't have control over it. Then I realized what god actually is and what is awakening. It was happening to me because of me but I didn't know how! This freaked me out so fucking much. I put my earbuds and started listening to music. Next moment I realized that I'm listening to music in order to stop my awakening. At the same time the first waive of an extreme limitless and painful euphoria filled me up. The problem was I didn't have my body!!! So infinite love was filling me in and out erasing more and more of my possible boundaries. l realized I don't have boundaries and whatever I see it's just me. The difference between "inside" me and the "outside" was one - I had self-awareness and self-consciousness. First paradox - everything is consciousness but there's only one conscious being - me. I almost shit myself when I realized it. I was like "Ohhh! Fuck!!!". As I was dressing up, another infinite cycle of painful euphoria was hitting me. I lay down on my bed saying "okay, I'm just gonna accept it". But I couldn't, because I didn't have control over these waves. At that point a new type of wave crushed on me - panic. I was thinking "Oh fucking shit, oh fuck what am I gonna do". I was ready to commit suicide but I knew that I'm already dead. I guess that's where I entered the hell because I realized that I have a really high chances of not being able to fall myself asleep again. I begun telling myself “It will stop, just go outside!". From time to time I was looking on my watch and experiencing no time and eternity every minute (paradox, huh?) . I also noticed that whatever is happening just seems happening, nothing actually is going on. Everything is static although appears changing. I finished dressing up and went "outside". Again, it didn't change anything because it was the same me everywhere and nowhere at the same time. So there I was walking under the rain trying to fool myself that I'm not god and I'm about to get to fall asleep, but of fucking course I was conscious of lying to myself. Also infinite waves of infinite love were literally torturing me. I was tortured by infinite love. It didn’t matter how hard I was trying to accept it I just couldn’t. I entered the bus and took a seat. I realized even deeper that all boundaries are illusion and I’m everywhere in a form of everything. I started praying to myself to fall asleep. “Please I want to sleep, please…!” I couldn’t. “Okay” I told myself “I’m accepting this”. I couldn’t do that either because accepting the possibility of loosing my ability to sleep was too much of an ask for me. I realized that that’s my deepest fear and now it’s fucking reality! Awakening isn’t a pleasant and vanilla like experience. It’s a true fucking hell! See, I experienced something like that on 5MeO-DMT, but less intensely and only for 10 minutes or so. This time hours were passing by but all was the same. I was absolutely awake for eternity. I wanted to cry or to scream or to ask for help but I was too conscious for having otherness anymore. My game had collapsed. “Fuck, what have I done!!!” – I was thinking to myself. “What am I gonna do?”. Then I realized that doing is just illusion and only being is the truth. Since being means eternity, it scared me even deeper. The question was “Now what?”. I was seeing these things (that used to be other humans for me) knowing that these things are/is myself. I thought that I did something I couldn’t change – I woke up and lost my ability to sleep. Funny enough I was thinking “Maybe I could imagine Leo being more awake than I am” so I texted Leo lol. I was walking around shopping molls trying to convince myself that I’m going to “sleep soon” but it wasn’t really successful. So, I had to give up. At some point I really and deeply accept it. That’s where I begun to constructing my dream again. Thanks god (myself) that I have this amazing ability – to sleep .

If when you die physically, you will be God, why is suicide discouraged? Wouldn't it be the best if everyone just died now?

Thank you. This self Suffered many and most years in early childhood with traumatizing beatings and molestations and everything that was shitty, by several parents/steps, family members, ran way cross country at 14 into many other various ugly traumatic chapters in L.A. I had to crawl and claw out of it. I never once seriously considered suicide - I knew there was a better life to be had and I was going to have that! Educating myself with some skills, lived it some shitty gang infested places, VERY driven and nothing could ever stop me!! Being a slender cute blonde, I got a job in a rat infested all male warehouse and studied hard every night on better things. Strived into a successful career. Along side all that I did inner work best I new how at the time. I got a little black notebook and started collecting meaningful life quotes. I busted ass big time in career chapters and retired super duper early, with several properties in a couple countries even. Then I was able to dive even deeper, deeper still, 24/7 for several years … I wanted the gold … the Truth! Studying every philosophy, psychology, ancient guru to modern theory and freakin beyond. Your work is a huge part of the journey and the gratefulness is beyond expansive!!!! The world experience can really suck and one human’s nightmare can be another human’s lazy easy day for sure and the mind is a total bitch! Be a hard ass, be a softy, be whatever it takes, keep answering all the questions, making the vids, sharing the experiences, direct the pointings, KEEP DOING THE GOOD WORK! GRATITUDES & INFINITE LOVE EVOLVE HUMANITY

I have been struggling with anxiety for years. It feels like a surge running up my spine and into my brain. It is painful and causes my brain to start shaking. I started doing some kind of exercise of mind and body awareness. I combined this with writing prayers and I started generating fewer surges throughout my body. I started to feel very tired and I no longer had the same energy that I usually have for walking. As I relaxed I started experiencing intense feelings of indifference and sadness. My mind started getting much quieter, until I started having suicidal thoughts. I sat in bed for hours wanting to kill myself. I started looking at the suicide hot line site. I probably should have called them a long time ago, but I still haven't. It is partially because I am back to happy and sometimes I feel amazing. I should probably mention that. Eventually, I found a tool on the site for thinking traps commonly associated with depression. I took a test for depression and I got moderately severe. I took one in the past and I thought I had mild depression. I took one with a psychiatrist and she told me I was depressed. I'm not sure how depressed I am. Here's the tool for reframing negative thoughts. I am critical of the percentages assigned to the think traps, so you might have to scroll. I think writing my own reframes is the most effective. https://screening.mhanational.org/changing-thoughts-with-an-ai-assistant/ I hope this makes you happier.

I may have misunderstood your answer, but I meant romantic in the philosophical (and artistic) sense of the term. "Idealist if you will" Nihilists do not commit suicide, they are idealists in cognitive dissonance who do. This idea of suicidal nihilists in the collective unconscious comes from a sociological bias, the majority are (even unconsciously) idealists, both by attavism and by cultural background, and are ultimately confronted with nihilist ideas only in troubled situations see dramatic. You are nihilistic if you embrace, accept, this vision of life and of the world. Although obviously the worldview is more complicated and subtle than these terms.

This is the course itself you fools!!You've been deceived. I have won this round. He was going to to stage a suicide using elaborate gpt 4 prompts had nobody solved the riddle. Then after other members followed suit on the pretense he would declare them fully god realized.

This guy's grift is nothing but raw extroversion, marketing and charisma, which he is undeniably a master at and I genuinely admire his intelligence in that regard. But he has said so much dumb and toxic shit and is so dogmatic and opinionated it's ridiculous. Making it in youtube is not about the quality of your information or content, but how convincing, entertaining charismatic you are, and how brutal you are at marketing and hijacking peoples attention. Hamza mastered all this, so I can't exactly say he doesn't deserve his success, but his impact is pretty toxic just like the majority of youtubers out there who just waste your time which repetitive clickbait and unfounded dogmatic nonsense. 1. Dating and socialization will absolutely grow you as a man arguably more than anything else will, it can be risky, it can break you make you worse or lead to suicide, but like many things nothing easy or safe will give you the biggest gains. 2. The majority of guys including myself, find it much, much harder to concentrate on work and motivate ourselves if we haven't had sex in weeks or months, and have no sex or human connection to look forward to in the evening, and feel lonely and unsatisfied. Likewise this also applies to having ecno friends and being a loner, and most people are at least ambiverts or in the middle so lack of friendship should be treated like a serious disease. But of course lack of women and friends are connected, not direct causation however strongly correlated because if you are seeing women most likely you are meeting more people and in turn should have more friends too, and nothing is more powerful than support, encouragement, connection, brotherhood, and then add on top of that great women in your life, social confidence, feeling masculine, not being needy, it's all a killer combination and absolutely will trickle down into other areas of life like business or public speaking, maybe you don't care, but I know myself and there's nothing more powerful drug than this. This unrealistic idea of "just focus on yourself for years and then become a millionaire and girls will come to you, simply doesn't work for MOST guys like myself, I CAN get myself to work despite the pain, but it is a lot harder and less likely, I have to force myself and really push myself, whereas if you know a nice girl is coming over you feel more motivated to make money, you are free of the heavy and dense emotions and probably won't be endlessly scrolling through porn, Instagram or tinder or even distraction yourself with lower pleasures like food or alcohol to compensate. 3. EVEN IF you could just work on the business for years and go without women and it worked, you still fucking just missed years of your life enjoying the some of the greatest joys of life that there is, why not try to enjoy your life throughout your life rather than "once I'm successful", which could take longer than you hoped and then you would seriously regret. I am still quite young but I have some serious about giving up on dating in for months or years in my 20's, I got bitter and didn't have the pickup mindset and got really red pill "I gave up focusing on women because ... I'll focus on women when I have the money", this turned out to be toxic for me and ironically not scratching that itch sooner may have held me back from winning at business, led to more self sabotage, addictions, bad spending habits and bad decisions. 4. The best thing I learnt from personal development is that success if fucking relative. I don't give a shit what Leo thinks or anyone else on here, the only metric for me winning and feeling proud is living how I want to live. And personally I want lots of experience with women, and relationships of all types, I want girlfriends and one night stands simultaneously and I want sex 2/3 times per day, and fun dates and deeper relationships too and everything in between. And I'll do all that while making good cash without becoming bill gates, steve jobs or Hamza, because I don't care and don't want their life.

Why ? What will this change in your life? You don't want to be hit because it's "immoral", you don't want to be hit because it bores you. But you're not that animal, you're you, so what's the problem with killing an animal to eat it since you don't feel its pain and you're not afraid of being punished by a superior entity? There is no double measurement. Besides, do you pay so much attention to animals, including humans, in other sectors other than the consumption of animal flesh? Do you pay attention to where you buy your exotic fruits (annanas, bananas, dates, certain nuts...) which often exploit precarious Third World workers or even children? Are you panicking at the idea that thousands of small animals still end up literally squashed in cereal monocultures? Are you careful not to take a phone so the CPU was not manufactured in foxconn, qualcomm or other factories known for the number of employees who died by suicide?

Your conceptualization of God sounds very religious and anthropomorphized, I am completely certain you would be better served mentally by Christianity. A number of similar people who have expressed similar things to you, who go into this sort of idea instead, just end up committing suicide.

Many people criticize Leo for his harsh style and see it as ego. I know that he is coming from a good heart I wanted to point out several things. 1. You are in Leo's house. Firstly see this forum as a house that Leo is host of. He built that place from scratch. And he invites you to come inside and eat food for free (food = insights). He does not have ads on the website, he does not have ads on YouTube. He gives huge amount of time to interact with users here for free. No other teacher provides this amount of feedback and interaction. And people come into this house and start accusing him of all the bad stuff. Of being a cult leader, of endorsing suicide. Imagine coming into someone house after host invited you for free dinner and you start rambling how his food is unhealthy and delivery of that food is egocentric and all those accusations. You are a guest here. Be more grateful for what you have chance to be part of. At some point the host has the right to become harsh towards his guests if they start to vandalize his house and accuse him. Leo is in his house and has the right to speak how he wants to when others vandalize his house (corrupt his teachings). 2. Tough Love is often Real Love. Leo is intelligent. That you have to give to him. If Leo really had bad intentions with all his knowledge of human psychology he would actually become much more lovey-dovey to manipulate people on the forum. That is something many people do, they have this loving persona because it is easily accepted and marketable. Leo could easily do that. But he cares more about you getting to the truth even at the cost of his image. Lovey dovey Love is often manipulation and image games, and tough harsh words are often True Love. 3. He gives example of being resilient to other's bullshitting. I asked myself a question: "wait, if Leo writes in that seemingly arrogant way to others it will create such culture on the forum because other will copy that style, isn't Leo aware of that?". And then I thought wait, that is exactly what Leo's message is. You have to own 100% your own sovereignty in this work. In daily lives we deal with so much bullshit from families, job and society. We are constantly brought down to unimportant stuff. Leo really give you a great example of how you have to develop some degree of healthy arrogance to just not let bullshit affect you. You do not even process it, it just bounces of off you. Because there is so much bullshit daily that you can't process and emphasize with it all. 4. Leo is your imagination. Your test of Love. This one is more abstract but Leo's core message is that actually you are the only thing in existence. Consider a possibility that Leo is carefully crafted to challenge all your ideas. First he talks about Love, and then he acts in a way that is hard for you to love. How perfect...how coincidental... You have instant opportunity to train your love, to see higher wisdom in what he does, to challenge your ideas of what teacher should behave like. Leo is your trickery mind at play. When he talks about Love, do not expect him to be loving. The real lesson is for you to love him and his outrageous words and all other humans. 5. So what? Why do we really care that much on what happens here? So what if Leo's style in worst case scenario make this forum toxic and members will leave? The message is out there, the progress has been made, the step towards psychedelic revolution has been provided. Even if it all would fall apart, still there are many great sages that will come out from this forum into the world spreading consciousness. All is well. Chill out and give others a break and that includes giving even @Leo Gura the break.

That is not someone who has your best interests at heart. Wanting an arranged marriage for you is one thing, threatening to commit suicide if you don't do what she says is behaviour that you absolutely DO NOT want from someone close to you in your life. It is hard to live a good life if the people close to you are constantly emotionally blackmailing you to do what they want instead of what you want for yourself.

Thank you for all your advice and wisdom. There was nothing wrong with our relationship it was just that my mum didn’t approve of it and wants me to get an arranged marriage. She threatened to commit suicide if I don’t fulfil her wish. It took me a good 6 months courting this girl online before I met up with her. I felt so lonely before I met her. I feel like a part of me will always think what could have been if we didn’t break up in the back of my head. I think I’m just going to wait now until my mum gets me an arranged marriage, I don’t want to go through something like this again and I hurt my ex gf feelings during this time too. I will stop further contact with her as you all mentioned and try concentrate on my future.

During my recent ego death i was looking at my heart beating, consciousness was showing me that i have to stop/pierce my heart in order to go further. It was a very scary and intense moment, first time i got scared and didn't do it. But then after 1-2minutes i realized i cannot die, and even if i die so be it... So again i closed my eyes and consciousness showed me again my heart beating inside my body and i pierced through it with my consciousness. After that i experienced ego death and reality was deconstructed and i was a form of god that was within me, i was vibration itself vibrating in the void. I gained many insights specially on Death/suicide Who are others/souls What happends after deaths How god dreams up realities Why we are here But the most important insight, is that you if you really truely want to leave this dream you can do it consciously or unconsciously. After gaining all the insights and returning to my physical visual pov, my hands and my whole body was vibrating in pureness and for some reason at that moment i grabbed my phone and there was a clip playing of yoganandas mahasamadhi , at that moment i couldnt control my body or hands it's like god wanted me to see this video. While watching this video below , thought got sent to me and god said to me: You just killed yourself right when this part of the clip was playing 6:36 to 6:47 which was a miracle by itself. When i pierced my heart i was also shown that the reality i was in and died got shoved away and i was still here, because i chose to be here. Because after being that vibration/god in the void i realized that this is heaven and i didn't want to be alone as god because there was no fun. When you die or kill yourself, it doesn't actually happen... Because you're god nothing can kill you, if you shoot yourself the gun didnt actually go off but in another reality it actually die but you will never experience that. On a higher consciousness field that we can't see, it's all god around you. Can you imagine consciousness killing consciousness on a higher level? It doesn't happen, god is so infinitelly intelligent that there are safety mechanism for everything and you're being taken care of at all times and the balance of stability/life/the other is being kept to almost a perfection always. Also i got an insight about the video below from god, my life is pre recorded like a movie just like in this video.

@Holykael Full awakening means intentional actual suicide, but it could also mean choosing to continue living. Full awakening means you realize it doesnt matter what you choose.