Search the Community

I know. And what I'm telling you is... that's precisely why you're not fully Awake. Complete the circle: the finite IS the infinite. If you think there is a difference between the finite and the infinite, you're stuck in subtle duality, not nonduality. It's very fucking sneaky.

Normal religion: it's all about what you believe. Nonduality: it's all about what you experience. Funnily enough we still have the same oneupmanship about who's got the best or deepest level

Neo Advaita -- enlightenment teaching -- Mooji, Akilesh (Sifting to the Truth) and also anyone else who teaches self inquiry. Nonduality -- there is no such thing as nonduality, but the term refers to what is pointed to (the unknowable), via exposing the dilemma of seeking, by the boundless non-communication which speaks to no one and comes directly from unknowing, and it's recognized there is no one separate from wholeness, and there's no intention in the communication -- Tony Parsons, Jim Newman, Kenneth Madden, Andreas Muller, Anna Brown, Mei Long, Ariana Reflects, Lisa Cairns, Tim Cliss, Richard Sylvester. Totally and utterly different.

How comes? As far as I can tell, if all objects of perception are removed (which isn't actually possible) there would be no experience ever. What would be experienced if there were no apparent things to experience? Nothingness can't be perceived in absence of an apparent something. You can say there is no subject and object when seeing red, e.g. that there is just seeing, but I think that is a pairing. I can't verbalize why because I know what it is like to "become" the perceived objects, but I think that is just recognition of absolute nonduality STILL taking place in an apparent duality. Dreams are also duality within nonduality. You could never see a landscape in a dream if you weren't seemingly located somewhere in the dream, which is then dual even though we know it is all manufactured by a singular mind. I see multiplicity of any kind as an apparent duality.

@RMQualtrough Awakening has nothing to do with the human mind. the human mind is an imagination within Consciousness just like a chair. And things like chairs are not dependent on a human mind. Existence = Consciousness. If it is not within your consciousness right now then it doesn't exist. There is only one Consciousness. God can't split Itself. I guess with nonduality you are referring to the formless Godhead/Singularity. You as God can 'experience' that. God = Consciousness. God can be conscious of Itself. Before birth doesn't exist.

@GreenWoods The dreamed up things are objects right? And these objects are finite. That is why I enjoy the waves in the ocean metaphor. The object arises and falls away back into void. We do witness this happen first hand when a thought arises as an object and then falls back into void. The human mind will always be an object in duality. If you remove all contents of the human mind, experience through that lens ceases entirely. I would say perceptions are unique. I don't know who came up with "bubbles" but perceptions can connect together to form larger "objects" it seems... Obviously all of your sensory perceptions are not identical but are perceived in the same space. BUT you cannot telepathically know the contents of my mind right now. Because these objects are unique expressions right? It would be impossible to "experience" nonduality for obvious reasons. It would be impossible for experience to exist without extreme limitation and finitude. To see red you have to perceive red, and that perceived red cannot be ANYTHING ELSE but itself... Which out of an infinity, is insanely limited. Like throwing a dart into the galaxy and hitting some random atom within the entire universe, but even more limited than that. I don't believe that any amount of God-consciousness could allow the human mind of Leo to suddenly be able to see through my eyes. Because the moment there is an object like the mind it is limited to being itself like how red is red in absence of blue green etc. When the object ceases it is just destruction of object back into void. Wake up after anaesthesia and the object returns and with it, inherent limitation. The human mind will always be a finite limited object and always be in duality. The appearance of duality is eternal. It's an impossibility to bring your human mind with you when the non-experience of nonduality is achieved, so you just have some sort of general anaesthetic effect... There's not really a "you" anyway so I can't accurately say "you" were in nonduality before birth, and same upon death. But from the perspective of the human mind it is like that I think.

If you haven't seen 'Midnight Mass' on Netflix I highly recommend it. Starts slow, but it all comes together masterfully. This is a conversation that happens at the end (spoilers obviously). For a show about fanatical Christianity, this powerful speech at the end is quite on-the-nose Nonduality. Just goes to show that Nonduality is truly becoming mainstream and part of the collective-consciousness. As the character is dying: ‘What do I think happens when we die? Speaking for myself...myself...myself. That's the problem, that's the whole problem with the whole thing, that word, “self”. That's not the word, that's not right. How did I forget that? I thought I'd despair or feel afraid, but I don't feel any of that. Because I'm too busy in this moment remembering. This body is mostly just empty space after all and solid matter, it's just energy vibrating very slowly. And there is no me. There never was. I'm no longer breathing and I remember. There is no point where any of that ends and I begin. I remember I am energy, not memory, not self. My name, my personality, my choices, all came after me. I was before them and I will be after. And everything else is pictures picked up along the way. Fleeting little dreamlets. And I am the lightning that jumps between. I am the energy. And I am returning, just by remembering. I am returning home. It's like a drop of water falling back into the ocean, of which it's always been a part. All things, everyone who's ever been, every plant, every animal, every atom, every star, every galaxy, all of it, that's what we're talking about when we say God. The One. The cosmos, and its infinite dreams. We are the cosmos dreaming of itself. It's simply a dream that I think is my life every time. But I'll forget this. I always do. I always forget my dreams. But now, in this moment, I remember. The instant I remember, I comprehend everything at once. There is no time, there is no death, life is a dream. It's a wish, again and again and again, and on into Eternity. And I am all of it. I am everything. I am all. I am that. I am you.'

I would say we don't enjoy deep sleep because enjoyment is an experience which can't happen in absolute nonduality, I think we enjoy the feeling of refreshment upon waking. I also don't really think there are realms the human mind can go to given it's main location of origin is within this particular dream, which I don't think we have control over. Rupert has a video on that called something like "there's no choice in infinity". If the entire top down nature of things is altered, I find everything stays the same. Yes a human self is a brain made of atoms and neurons etc but the nature of those things is mental? So the brain is just what the human mind looks like. Destroy that and it is reduced back into energy etc which presumably has no subjective experience? So God-self can't see through us anymore but sees through others as it is doing currently. Yeah there has to be other to have experience. Without duality experience is impossible. Rupert also has great dream analogies to show that, and also some which explain well why it could not just experience infinity and can only experience things via finitude and limit. It occurs to me that to experience red for example, limit is completely necessary because you can't see red unless the red is NOT seen by the viewer as being blue and green and yellow etc. Red itself is limited to one singular thing. I think this is a necessary and natural element of infinity, rather than intelligence etc. I think that because the void has no property at all, it is literally nothing (AKA infinity AKA all potential somethings), so must experience things like intelligence inside duality. I actually found far more insight in dissociative dualistic states of being, than in the states where I am everything. It was when subject and object became distinctly split rather than merged that I could know what the subject was. And it was like the mirror looking back at nothingness you described, it can't ever be seen but can be known via the somethings. I didn't see infinity there but knew total nothing. Infinity is more a thing I felt when having psychedelic induced out of body experiences (no form for the brain to attach consciousness to so it becomes sizeless and locationless). When a human mind wins the game it doesn't exist anymore haha, and this is an absolute inevitability all of us face. The game never ends! There's no enlightenment because there is infinite duality for all eternity! Without "self", there is no entity to win the game or be enlightened, rather the object (a morphing collection of experience called the human mind) just stops being "imagined" by the void... That is what I'm thinking anyway.

There's no such thing as enlightenment tbh. It's not possible for duality to ever end because you can't seperate something from nothing, and it's not possible to experience actual nonduality. If "Leo" is fully enlightened he's still here experiencing me and every other living (experiencing) thing in every plane of reality, just as is the case already right now.

I disagree. I think the term liberation is most often used to describe the end of the insight path, which very specifically means when the knot of perception is unraveled and the nonduality of the 6 senses is undeniable in every single moment (4th path in Buddhism, Rigpa in Dzogchen, etc). It is almost always characterized by an irreversible and permanent change in perception. This is a very deep level of realization that transcends the lower levels of: I AM, I AM EVERYTHING, and I AM NOTHING. It is when reality "syncs" when all filters finally dissolve, leaving only what is. These filters and fabrications are still active on psychedelic trips, sorry to say, and in full force when you return. "God-realization" is still standing on a ground. What you're calling God-realization is in the I AM EVERYTHING stage, and on psychedelics it isn't even really that, because it's always a *finite conceptual* memory for you now. I'm sure it feels really grand, but you're still clinging, so it isn't IT. I think the trap you fall into is that this stage can go infinitely deep into "everything", making it feel more and more elevated, especially on powerful entheogens. True realization, however, transcends that by letting it go. You gotta accept this one day, Leo.

I feel like this video does not get enough love and attention - It's by far the best nonduality video of Le's (for me). I've watched it 3 times now. Does anyone have any book recommendations on the topic of Aztec Nonduality?

The teachers themselves say that everything is imagination, and of course it also includes them since they are part of the "everything", but we still don't get it i guess. They say "we are imagination" but it is not enough for them to say that, what matter is "us" getting that without getting lost in the nonduality lingo also.

Which me is still conscious? I don't believe the self-me experiences a subjective conscious viewpoint when the self-mind is gone. I only think nothingness is conscious BECAUSE it's the only way by which "somethings" can have an actuality. I don't think it has anything to do with the self-mind at all. I don't think the self-mind has any consciousness whatsoever. I think it's a "thing" like all other things. I envision a blank piece of paper which is nothingness. Draw some shape on it which represents perception. And then the void is conscious of that perception/form. Now erase the shape. The paper goes nowhere but the shape just vanishes. That's what I see happening to the self-mind... Consciousness continues because if it didn't there wouldn't be anything which is impossible. But I don't think consciousness is something the self mind owns but vice versa I think the self-mind is like a temporary puppet plaything. Actual nonduality can never be experienced, because you need a subject and object relation for experience to take place. Probably when Leo is saying cessation is imaginary, he means for You capitalized. The self mind stops experiencing space and time, and you simply teleport from one time to another, if in a coma perhaps quite a while later. That is the self-mind cutting out leaving only You. Little-you is gone in that period of time.

The thing is that there isn't a you that loses the illusion of duality and then comes back to it... That illusion persists non-stop (it can't ever stop) and you the self-mind vanishes. Even from moment to moment it's not like there's a constant you. Just capital You which is just the awareness without attribute. The continuous self-you experience is due to memory and other functions of the human mind. But the self-you object is always morphing. There's not really a self-you entity that continues unchanged from moment to moment. Even on bufo trips like Leo does, there is still duality, and the experience is still happening to Leo (hence we don't all trip out every time he smokes it, and only he has the memory of that experience). If Leo experienced nonduality that would be cessation AKA nothingness. It can't be experienced at all. Only duality can be experienced and that's WHY duality is permanent or there'd just be nothingness which is impossible.

All of that is bullshit. I've gone beyond all that. Doubt me all you want. it makes no difference. You guys are so far from God-realization it's sad. It is completely obvious to me who knows what God is and who does not. I can listen to be teacher talk about God for 10 seconds and immediately I know he is not God-realized. What you have to understand is that God is even dreaming up samadhi, cessation, enlightenment, no-self, nonduality, "naty state", nothingness, psychedelics, past awakenings, gurus, RASA, and whatever other spiritual bullshit you are imagining. It's all spiritual bullshit invented by you to keep yourself asleep. Only God is real and you are not conscious of what God is. How can I possibly know all this? Because, I'm God. You'll only understand once you realize that I'm you and that Frank Yang is some clown you've imagined Basically, no one on this forum is fully God-realized. So watch out who you believe. There are many bullshitters here talking about things they don't fully comprehend.

Beautiful. I see no reason to be salty about these types of posts. Personally I find them very inspiring and empowering, and I hope people keep sharing their realizations. These types of posts are 1000x more helpful for someone who is seriously on the path than any of the nonduality debates that happen on the forum. So please, keep speaking your truth!

Reality/life is nothing but a huge huge disappointment. Everything, everything in this existence is deeply disappointing and unsatisfactory. There's nothing here that is truly amazing, nothing that makes me say: "this is worth living for, this makes all the other suffering worth it." One of the biggest disappointments, if not the biggest, is other people. I have more and more realized that everyone are selfish motherfuckers. They only care about themselves. They wont hesitate to hurt you if they don't get what they want from you. They don't care about you, they only care about themselves. Being alone hurts, and other people hurt you too. Everything in this existence hurts. It's all hopeless. My life is the biggest joke ever. I strongly suspect that people make themselves believe in nonduality stuff (that you are God, that everything is Love, etc.) simply because they can't accept how much reality/life sucks. Those beliefs makes everything seem so much nicer and it makes them more happy. Yet I can't stop myself from reading about nonduality stuff, but it's a complete waste of time, but what else could I do on my spare time? Everyone say all kind of radical things but for me all those things are unverifiable, so their words are worth basically nothing.

This. The word yoga has meant so many different things for so many different people at different times that it really doesn't have much of a meaning anymore. This is the end goal with all word meanings, really, they have the meaning you give them. Some people say true yoga is simply meditation, nonduality, realizing your true nature, etc. Others refer to a spiritual but also physical practice that unites mind and body. Others refer to the different branches practices within the of exercise/stretching meaning of yoga.

I write fiction stories. All my stories are teaching Nonduality through fun fictional stories, in ever genera. I believe most people would not be interested in hearing lectures on Nonduality, as it is threatening to their core beliefs. But, if you are subtle about it, sharing the teaching here and there throughout an engaging fun story, then it's more palatable to your average person. To give an example, Star Wars introduced Spirituality to a large portion of the world, hidden in a fun Sci-Fi Adventure film. The Force is Oneness.

Of course I understand the movies. I think you misunderstand what I was saying. Not that that interpretation is what I think the movies are actually about, but a fun possibility of a direction to go in for the end of the series. To use the Matrix as an analogy for true Nonduality, that consciousness is all that exists, and this bubble of reality is all that there is. Anywho, just having fun playing with conceptual ideas.

You don’t have a twisted perception of yourself, as if there is a correct perception of yourself - you have no possibility of perception of yourself, or, of ever perceiving yourself. You already are yourself! ? Check and see! Notice how ridiculous it is if I say ‘you are not you’. Lol. You are not some ‘thing’ you could perceive. There is not a perceiver and a perceived, just as there is not a you and a universe. These are only thoughts, beliefs, the activity of a mind which is only apparent. This is often referred to as ‘the materialist paradigm’, or, ‘asleep’ in the apparent duality of the finite (this or that) mind. Basically, just beliefs. You are not some ‘thing’ you could learn. Just as there is not a perceiver and a perceived (nonduality, not two), there is not a knower and a known. That - the activity of thought - is what keeps that veil or facade going. Via daily meditation this thought activity settles, rests, fizzles out. Without that smokescreen of thought activity there is the clarity of Oneness (*not-two). These are beliefs…… ……‘through humans’, ‘we are embedded’, ‘the universe gets bored’, ‘human lives’, ‘mundane lives’, ‘the universe is big’, ‘the universe is powerful’, ‘the universe is running something’, ‘we humans aren’t the best’, ‘existence isn’t the best’, ‘time’, ‘the universe is wasting’, ‘resources are limited’, ‘this isn’t heaven’, ‘other species care’, ‘nature’, ‘should and or shouldn’t’, ‘the universe develops a them’, ‘dumb exists’, ‘there are some (which joke at)’, ‘there are levels’, ‘I could be something I’m not’……. Don’t add another belief… “my perception of myself needs fixing”. Inspect beliefs to let them go, effortlessly. Notice how every time you do, it feels good. This is because you are what the beliefs are made of. Unthinkable sheer M’F’ing Goodness. The thought activity ‘says’ there is good & bad, correct & twisted, etc, etc, etc, etc…. and this goes on and on via the belief in “a perceiver perceiving a perceived”. The thought activity implies the separation, but there is no actual separation, or simply, you are not “a separate self”… awareness is just believing the thoughts that it is separate. “What”…. is already…. A self referential thought. (But you can not think, yourself. Because again, you are already yourself.) ‘Catch’, as in notice, that activity of thoughts & beliefs, and bring it to peaceful mind, to rest, at… “what”. (Before that whole story of beliefs).

Framing as a 3 step process… step 1 is beliefs coming to the surface. Step 2 is recognizing a belief is just a belief, a repeated thought. Step 3 is letting it go because it isn’t true, it’s a belief, a repeated thought. What’s focused on (or not) is actually a thought, a belief. Not something that is true. There’s no suggestion here of ‘focusing on what you do not know’, but rather recognizing what’s already being focused on (the thought / belief) isn’t actually known. It’s a belief, that that is known & true, but it’s not known or true, it’s believed. That creates an only apparent in thought (a belief) separation. “The ‘knower & the known’.” But the knower is already the known. Not two. (Nonduality). There is, absolutely literally no one who actually knows, anything. The ‘substance’ of reality, consciousness, is literally Not Knowingness. Consciousness is infinite. There is no “other thing” which could possibly actually be known. There is the apparent and often believed thought that something is known about consciousness, but there is no separate or finite entity which knows it. Which actually exists, or knows anything whatsoever. That is thought attachment. Ignorance / bamboozlement. When not knowing seems to experience people knowing this or that, the actuality of that experience is not knowing believing it’s a person, and that as that person it “knows stuff about infinity, or consciousness”. “It” doesn’t. That is thought attachment. “A materialist”, if you will. Has pride & arrogance in this place gone completely unnoticed? Employ the ‘3 step process’.

I was thinking second and third was shit even I have watched all 3 movies twice in my life. Maybe you will not love this movies after Ken Wilber's commentary, but you will understand the movie in general if you little bit heard about nonduality. If you care to understand the movie I suggest watching all 3 with Ken Wilber's commentary. It is impossible to understand this trilogy from the first movie. It is not good versus evil as it seems in the first movie for example

I mean it’s sad because so many people are sick and mentally sick and are open to trying these things, but it’s so hard to get access. Meanwhile, all the things that toxify your body are readily available and marketed as solutions. it seems like the only way for society to evolve and not be so sick is for inspiration tools like this. I know this is Leo parroting, but this is felt to my core. even though I’m not healthy, at least I have inspirational moments to look back on to keep the progress up. I can’t imagine how fucking hopeless people feel. Nothing more than toxic material existence. perhaps I’m going to go to legalizing effort communities because just talking about nonduality and psychedelics is not enough for me. We need political action, hardcore.

But same goes for experiencing "being human", so long as you insist on time. So long as you insist on this kind of temporal eternity. Your question implies a difference between being "one" and being "infinite", that's why it makes no sense to you yet. Unite the two as/in nonduality and you have your answer; The "many" imply the "one" and vice versa. You can't be either infinite or one, you can only be one as infinity.