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@UnlovingGod so for a suicide attempt they isolated you for several months in a psychiatric hospital? It seems like a recipe to go crazy irreversibly

I had a suicide attempt after two and a half years of deep constant suffering without any pause. At the end my health wasn't at risk, but I got transported to a psychiatric hospital. And it's a hellish experience. There are People that get psychotic breaks, start to feel like snakes throwing glass bottles. When you enter there, you don't have any guarantee to leave this place. The doctors and psychologist leave you in the dark. Then you ask the people around you, how long they were kept there. Some months, some years and then it starts being a terrible mind game against those, who look after you. You feel like crying, but you can't cry, because there is no privacy, everybody is watching you and you want to give a good impression. You don't have Internet, you are completely isolated from the outside world. There is no garden, the only fresh air, you may get, is, when you want to smoke a cigarette. So I started smoking. I couldn't even see trees, but at least I wanted to experience the fresh air coming through the windows. When you don't have any social support from friends and families, even if you have just a mild diagnosis, you'll be there for various months. The doctors don't care about you, they don't even make diagnosis. Just shut up and don't make a scene or you'll be there for ever and there is no law preventing this as you are isolated and literally declared as mentally ill. This wasn't a psychiatric hospital in North Korea, it was in Munich, Germany. I don't want to imagine, what it's like in other places. So please to the people considering suicide, more likely than not, those will be your consequences.

I’d like to see what you guys think about this. I hope it doesn’t get taken down, but wouldn’t that be the most total and quick way to transcend the ego and in turn everything that limits you? Other than the time and effort required, how is this different from mahāsamādhi?

Explain yourself. It is never easy to understand why someone attempts suicide.. and the reasons are varied and complex. Often suicide involves emotional or physical pain that someone finds to be unbearable and leaves them feeling as if there is no escape.

@Leo Gura I have the same thoughts regarding suicide. Its like You still have an attachment for life . Killing the body is no guarantee of less suffering t. That’s a projection-based story you’re telling yourself. Do you want to deal with suffering in an existence you understand and can control..or are you feeling lucky and ready to gamble? It’s all just a guessing game really.

Keep in mind that Tolle was at levels of suffering where he was on the brink of killing himself. That kind of suffering, in itself, will teach you many powerful lessons. But it's also quite dangerous to go that far. There's no guarantee you won't just kill yourself rather than awaken. So hoping to copy Tolle's path is likely to end in disaster. I would rather you guys don't go down that path. Which is why we're having this discussion. You have to really consider the cost paid to attain certain spiritual attainments. The suffering and risk to attain it might not be worth it. Or at least it's something you should seriously contemplate. Because the way most people frame it is like this: I will do some peaceful meditation and awaken like Tolle. But they leave out the insane suffering which was essential to his path. If you consider the Buddha's story, his suffering was also very intense. So you have to ask yourself, how much suffering am I willing to endure in order to reach the so-called end of suffering? And what if I endure all that suffering and never reach the end? There is probably some correlation between how deeply you suffer and how deeply you awaken, such that the really deep awakenings cost so much in suffering that very few people end up paying that price. And many people who end up paying the price but never awakening. Cause there's no guarantees that your suffering will turn out as well as Tolle or the Buddha. It could just turn into a typical hellish life and suicide.

@Buck Edwards Honesty: Wouldn’t you rather have a simple policy than a complicated one? Your current perspective is not a workable approach. This results in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Either way you are damned. Truth hides from no one. So, when you introduce lies, you are hiding your amazing qualities, and limiting your abilities and getting weaker and weaker, and becoming useless and failing in life. You are willingly committing spiritual and mental suicide. Why? Because someone says a bunch of words, that you attach hurtful meanings? Don’t look to the past. Let the past pass. Do you know what the mind is? It is simply a diary. A record of everything that you lost. Nothing more, it is designed to limit you, to inhibit you, to incapacitate you, to paralyze you. To destroy you. The past is all composed of lies, death… nonexistence. Your incredibly powerful consciousness recreates the energy(pictures) of the past and creates a perpetual hell for you. That is what hell is, you know. The past. You then bring it to shape your present and future. Your future is damnation. What is the antidote? Mental toughness. What is mental toughness? The ability to handle the energy of the past, the voices that tell you to stop, the voices of doubt, fear, regret, failure. The voices that tell you can’t succeed. The voices that make excuses and justifications. Fighting through the sickness, the disease, the discomforts that come your way. Mental toughness is the solution. You do that by making constant improvements in your life. It is by validating your improvements and making it your life mission to keep improving, no matter what. Massive action is the key here. It is the gradual realization and development of your near unlimited potential. A good way to start is with your fitness goals. If you are not improving, you are sliding down into the abyss. SD orange is right about one thing. Achievements is the grease of life; it loosens the friction and make life worth living. First you want to achieve the status of winner, and you want to be able to win and lose with the same level of enthusiasm. Have the mentality that you can't lose, because losing is giving up and you are determined to never give up. When your purpose is strong, you are strong, and you care much less about what people think... what most people think is full of shit anyway. Sorry for the pep talk. I usually don’t bother with the motivational stuff. I leave the motivational stuff to people like Tony Robbins or the like. It’s your life. You are source. Use your life as you choose. I am moving on from this topic. P.S. As for your police example. Know your rights. Study the constitution/Bill of Rights. Or your countries law. You generally are not obligated to speak to the police in the interest of being able to defend yourself in the court of law, fair trial and not incriminate yourself.

It seems to have really helped this dude, even though he was on the verge of suicide prior to taking it.

Do you expect healing to be all positive and flowering singing kumbayá? Think again. It could be as hard as a literally exorcism, talking from experience. My only observation about this guy which I followed when he post it, is that this was his first ever psychedelic, so yeah it was expected to be insanely intense. He was thinking if I recall well to do suicide because he tried to heal from non-psychedelics options so this was his final option.

I, as most of you, went trough life geniuenly believing in Materialism and Evolution. Never ever would I have believed I could potentially have psychotic tendencies until a random Thursday in March Corona year 2020 dramatically changed my life when I had an existential crisis and a severe emotional breakdown. My heart felt like someone stabbed one thousand knives into it and murdered me. The reason was I felt so utterly alone, bored, abandoned and pointless in my own existence that my ego committed suicide and ever since then I have ZERO ACCESS to my geniuene emotions. My perception changed 100%. Everything looked evil and dead all of a sudden. Around this time I stumbled upon Leo who then told me "You are God". This information went straight to my heart and it clicked, but I was terrified and couldn't really do much with this information so I abandoned it, it always stuck with me though. ........................... What do you think happens when someone can literally not feel anything for years on end? Well you guessed at some point I became literally insane. My ego did not only "commit suicide" it fucking went insane, nuts. At some point I saw 666 everywhere daily. Leo was the antichrist, I could see horns grow out of his skull. Every spiritual guru was the devil trying to lure me into falsehood. In fact, the devil had already killed me by making me commit the eternal sin of Blaspheming the Spirit. I geniuenly believed that by the end of a certain year the world would go literally under and aliens would come down to kill and torture all of us. I thought I would get crucified upside down. I was scared of looking in the sky. At some point I tasted rotten flesh on my tongue. I was fucking dead. Or so I thought. .............. On one hand I had the "evidence" that this was happening because I kept seeing the signs everywhere continually. On the other hand it felt so fucking stupid. How could creation ever kill the creator? Was God fucking evil? I constantly thought that this must be total garbage. At some point I broke down wheeping, l told all of this my christian ex boyfriend. I gave him so much evidence yet he would not believe me. "God cannot die nor commit suicide" he would say. Then, I smoked cannabis by chance and out of nowhere I thought "What if I am just dreaming? I am God. I am trolling myself to realize who I am. Infinity" The hallucinations stopped, just like that. I was in three institutions due to this condition, no therapy in the world could ever help me. Truth did. I have hope. I can breathe again. I am free. I can heal myself and achieve literally anything I want. TDLR: I just trolled myself to realize who I am. It worked. Also, mental illness will make your awakening shit.

Because human is largely skewed to allow access to important peaks of enjoyment, of "small death of the ego" only in the event of reproduction. But fundamentally the libido is independent of the sexual act and omnipresent at some basal level. Eating, smoking, crying, laughing, playing sports, being jealous of someone, being melancholy, being sad, doing housework, reading etc etc, all of this is in one way or another the expression of libidinal tension and emotions are totally the translation. I believe that if you were really unable to experience emotions you would not be on Actualized but rather died of suicide/anorexia, or in a psychiatric hospital. Your profile picture shows someone sad and melancholic, which is not an expression of apathy at all.

@Salvijus I'm also trying to listen to the old testament. It has a lot of wisdom except for some laws I guess which are boring to listen to. It is all boring. My communication is dumn and I don't remember what I hear to repeat to other people which is my flaw. I might be on the path, but I'm still not gonna let go of suicide, nor am I sure that I am on a path to a job. My rep is tarnished and my health I guess. It's just that I won't be able to make it anywhere, especially living where I live in peace and health. I want to walk a path to heaven, but man, it is not meant. Obviously God has to have some sense of social justice and Marxism, otherwise I'm never going to heaven.

How does suicide fit into survival?

@Schizophonia but don't you remeber when they banned them in the 60 cause people were getting too happy and peaceful not too insane. The insanity alcohol causes is just as bad and self destructive. Alcohol is a ticking time bomb. First you start to have fun then it goes to people only like me when I'm drunk. Then no one likes me so I drink alone to suicide . People don't need drugs they need a place in their mind that gives them peace. Alcohol does that for a short period of time but is very destructive. Mushroom can do that for you permanently and can't be taxed.

Does Leo expect marriages and households to crumble on the path to awakening? Will Leo have children? If Leo expects us to face insanity and even flirt with the risk of suicide (plugging DMT), will a relationship survive these strains? Thanks

All relationships and your identification with them will need to be seriously deconstructed if want to understand higher / deeper truths. No way can your current way of relating to reality survive or be maintained at these higher states of consciousness (no, I’m not talking about suicide being the answer). Furthermore, not willing to explore beyond your current paradigm is what keeps you stuck; there’s a bountiful amount of defense mechanisms that prevent you from doing so in the first place. Unlike with some other spiritual traditions, the work we’re doing is not about avoiding relationships, nor is it about merely improving current ones and striving to making them peaceful and “perfect” based on others’ standards. Instead, what we’re after is having a profound and intuitive understanding of what any and all relationships fundamentally are. We need to be very clear on how they shape our worldview and identity. This is not going to happen automatically and effortlessly, hence why it can appear to feel like “dying”.

I'm getting pulled to opposite directions by 2 forces. One wants me to live, and the other one wants me to kill myself. Both suicide and staying alive is bad. Impossible problem, and I don't even know how I got here. So that makes me stuck. Not dead, not alive, just mysteriously existing. Pretty sure I will get weird dreams now when I go to bed.

Fact is.. that it doesn't matter what I do, or how hard I try, or how hard I don't try. Because life is unfair, I'm a victim, and I'm in hell. Anyone who says otherwise/disagrees with me, is just confirming that. There is no way out. Not even suicide. You guys don't understand how fucking bad it is. Sometimes not even I understand it. That's how bad it is. Anyone who disagrees is just trying to cope with the shit. Or he/she got lucky in the life lottery.

I have studied self development for over than 2 years now, and I tried to understand the root cause of the ego/duality in the brain and to see every step on how it evolves from childhood to adulthood. So I studied many teachings from different people and I noticed that there are 2 kinds of ego, not only one. Everybody says that the ego is the “evil side”, but from the studies I noticed two opposite egos. I tried to make a study of both dualities/egos, but I came along with some problems that I will address below, after I show you the study. The characteristics of these two egos/dualities: - The bad/selfish ego: Logical mind -> Thoughts -> Evil Ego -> Masculine energy -> Unconscious -> Fear/Surival -> Pain -> Traumas -> Indulgent education -> Tyrants in society -> Positivity -> Happiness -> Narcissists/High self esteem -> Egoism -> Desires -> Possessive -> Hate -> Manipulators -> Selfish -> Possesive love -> Addiction -> Indifference -> Physical abuse -> Criminals/War -> Death/Killing. (ex: The popular kid in the school that is narcissist, rich, happy, doesn’t have a heart and that bullies you everyday, that doesn’t care about anything, very manipulative and can hurt you physically if they hate you, abusers) - The good/selfless ego: Emotional mind -> Emotions -> Good ego -> Feminine energy -> Unconscious -> Fear/Survival -> Pain -> Traumas -> Strict education -> Sheep in society -> Negativity -> Unhappiness -> Empaths/Low self esteem -> Altruism -> Expectations/Attachments -> Sacrifices -> Depressive -> Self hate -> Victims -> Selfless -> Dependent love -> Anxiety -> Numbness -> Suicide. (ex: The kid that is being bullied, that is poor, depressive, has a big heart and cares about everyone, the empath that sacrifices everything and is selfless, that it might commit suicide) I studied the 9 stages of Ego, from Leo, and I noticed that there were always two different egos, one that is selfish and one that is selfless: - Symbiotic, Impulsive, Opportunist, Expert stage - which had in common selfishness, indifference, anger, manipulation, superiority, logic. - Conformist, The achiever stage, Pluralist, Strategist - which is sheeps, dependence/needy, feelings, intuition, compassion, selflessness, sacrifices. I noticed that even in the Spiral Dynamics: - Beige, Red, Orange - survival, egocentric, domination, predators, indifferent, narcissistic, selfish, individualistic, cold - Purple, Blue, Green - sacrificing for others, naive, rules, obedience, return to spirituality, care and love, false spirituality Even the chakras have opposite dualities/egos: - 1st Chakra, 3rd Chakra, 5th Chakra - survival, self esteem, personal power, self worth, confidence - 2nd Chakra, 4th Chakra, 6th Chakra - emotions, love, intuition, imagination The duality of the brain (where ego lives): - Left brain: analysis, logic, ideas, facts, math, training, etc. - Right brain: creativity, intuition, arts, creation, feeling, imagination, etc. - If both hemispheres are in balance, what develops is free thinking. That's when you use your whole brain. Now my confusions: 1. People say the Ego is only the “bad ego”, but then, why in all these studies we have two opposing egos? If ego is only the “bad ego”, what is the “good ego” that I noticed? Cause it’s not Consciousness, because in the “good ego” we have self hate, low self esteem, etc. 2. Is duality formed of bad ego vs. good ego? Or duality is formed of bad ego vs. bad ego? I know that somewhere I am very diluted, because right now I don’t understand if ego is only the bad side. 3. What is Ego then, and where should I place the “good ego” characteristics? Please correct everything you see wrong in the study. You can see that some things are not right in the characteristics of ego, but I don't know how to correct them. I know that the two categories are somewhere wrong because, you can’t say that an evil person only has a logical mind, are not emotional, they are cold, because they hate and are angry, and that is an emotion too. Or you can see that I put happiness at the bad ego, which is a characteristic for enlightenment, so for sure something is wrong. 4. From what we know, Leo said that Consciousness = Unity, Unconditional love, Selflessness, Absolute goodness, Happiness, Peace, Balance. But balance means the equilibrium between good and bad. And happiness/selflessness/goodness is just the good part only. If consciousness is balance, that means that if we take my model, today I should love you unconditionally, and tomorrow I should hate you, today I should be selfless and tommorow selfish. Cause this means balance. Or that I should be neutral and not hate you and not love you. But this is surely not right, this doesn’t sound right. 5. Why does consciousness look like the “good ego”? Being selfless, loving unconditionally without boundaries, sacrificing until you want to commit suicide? If God is absolute and balance, it means he is both. But this in practice looks like today I’m an altruist and tomorrow I will kill you. Which again doesn’t sound right. 6. If consciousness is balance/unity of duality/paradox, then saying that God is selfless is just one side. From this model I understand that God is selfless and selfish at the same time, good and bad at the same time. But this doesn’t make me fell happy, unconditional loving, just very confused and not able to do anything, because I’m in the middle. 7. What does balance look then in practice? For me, for example if one extreme is healthy food and the other extreme is unhealthy food, the balance would mean i would eat healthy and unhealthy in balance. I will have a salad and cookies after. But why for some balance means only salad? 8. If Consciousness is the “good ego”, that means that I should become like the good ego, and that will lead me to suicide. But there is self hate and low self esteem, so it’s not Consciousness. What is the difference between the “good ego” and Consciousness? Is Absolute good the balance of love and hate? 9. In the spiral dynamics we see balance as rational, emotional and intuitive come together, or feminine and masculine in balance. If we apply the model in my study, that looks like again today I love you, tomorrow I hate you. So how can I get out of this? Please correct everything that is wrong and please help me fix the study, to put in order the characteristics and understand exactly what is Ego. I really want to help this world and I want to finish this study, so I can help everybody in the future. Please don’t be mad at me for what I wrote. Is what I noticed while I gathered this whole information and put it side to side. Please help me see what is wrong here, because I can’t get out of this and it tormented me for so long that I feel like I can’t anymore. @Leo Gura please take a look on here, I would appreciate it very much to hear your opinion.

The good vs. bad ego, as you described, aren't "good" and "bad" -- they are both bad. One is only "good" from a certain type of morality (Christian?) They are both bad from an Aristotelian golden mean kind of outlook. If you're a narcissist, that's bad; if you're committing suicide because you're too sensitive, that's bad too, from that viewpoint. They are both extremes. Firstly, the "ego" is simply that which we think we are; they are traits we identify with. This is morally neutral, although MOST of the time, we think whatever we are is good or right. Nonduality moves along the process of integrating the shadow, that which we tend to disidentify with. It can occasionally be considered good, but most of the time we think of it as bad. We tend to project it onto others or repress it. The endpoint of spiritual development is a yin-yang kind of integration of the two, where we discover that we were wrong all along in associating the shadow with evil (the case most of the time.) We drop the negative association and see it as a necessary part of ourselves.

How ? Your avatar/ego currently knows that this is all a dream and yet you have no option to leave it unless you commit suicide, which is not possible in this scenario. Ditto Immortality in every sense of the word, god dreams of a world whose destruction of the avatar that god believes to be (ego) can never be destroyed.

So how is this green exactly? I'd say the 1st and 3rd tweets have quite a bit of red in them. Not only the tweets but the persons too. They seem full of hate and pretty misandric. Someone at stage green can definitely be triggered offcourse, But its highly unlikely they encourage abuse or suicide or say such vile things.

https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics/ I'm looking at these stats and getting around a 3.3% death rate from reported suicides. I assume these numbers can be way off in either direction because of inaccurate attempts and inaccurate deaths by suicide. I might be wrong but I would guess my own success rate would be carefully planned and 100%, but who knows. I'm honestly wondering though if the thought of pain is the main reason people are unsuccessful? I often wished of a state of Nirvana/nothingness, but do not want to experience the thought of physical pain, the pain of others because of my action, etc.

@at_anchor You need to see a psychiatrist and a therapist ASAP, Don't just throw away your life, Suicide carries its own karma, you know.

I'm not interested in impossible. You are overestimating my lifes path. I am not gonna become Buddha or a yogi in this life. In another life I will if there is such a thing. This life has to come to an end, though. It is hard and it got too hard for me to deal with! So please hear my wishes better. I do not wish to become a yoga practicionaire because of my life that got real bad. I only wish for assisted suicide that is safe, painless and legal. Netherlands has it legal if it is assisted by a doctor I guess. How can we get me there and help me get a doctor for this asap? In another life we can talk about yoga and stuff. This life is too bad and poor to be talking about that stuff.