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@Prevailer you see believing in god and knowing god are two completely different things, one of it is a quite impersonal experience the other one is a very personal experience. what you belief or not belief is not of much relevance for someone who has seen into it so deeply that there is no doubt about it. your mind can’t grasp it because you are still a believer. although we could also start with the basics in sense of asking if you can know anything at all. or how you could know anything at all?

While I like to say that inherent buddha-nature is simply one’s impersonal enlightening function as it meets the perpetual result of the dharma, intellectuals are very quick to refute this observation and counter with resentments at issue with “claims of realization”. This is what is referred to as the conceit of ignorance, which is patently irrelevant to one’s enlightening function meeting the perennial advance of the dharma. Enlightening function has no position (Panda recently wrote on the daobums forum that I and my threads have no position as a snarky comment (that I absolutely LOVED)— and so she has subsequently removed it from the Recognizing Reality thread). Too bad that Panda, Taomeow and rainbowvein just love to hate this realized woman ~ hahahaa!! Enlightening function having no position is so since it is the antithesis of conditional identities that exist by virtue of the relative position. Ego is a valid function itself, relative to the psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die. It being absolutely empty of identity is naturally effective in terms of its purpose and capacity. That it becomes habituated to “positions” relative to identities of self and other is the root of deluded karmic imprisonment and is hence the focus of self-refinement in terms of the raison d'être of the authentic teachings, not to mention the selfless imprint of primordial awakening— Mind being the singular signifier attributing any relevance of an historic lineage of teaching tradition. Seeing your nature is a pretty major deal, beyond simply being an evidence of efficacy of one’s practical achievement of self-refinement, in terms of setting up the potential permanent stabilization of one’s application of aware potential in ordinary situations. Buddha’s instructions were to refer everything to the self~ why would it be recommended to leave this particular experience out as “not that big of a deal”, quoting Taomeow, who doesn’t seem to be talking much about issues and challenges relevant to the application of subtle operation by virtue of having seen her nature. Touting enlightenment as not that big a deal is what Dogen referred to as “it-doesn’t-matter” Zen. It only doesn't matter after you see your nature. Even so, enlightening activity is not dependent on having already seen one’s nature. Why? The reason being is one’s nature is already thus. Everyone is already just this enlightened mind, but it is necessary to experience it for oneself to gain the power of unified awareness in order to apply it in actual situations unbeknownst to anyone. So, the selfless wonder doesn’t require experiencing sudden enlightenment to begin to develop the perspective attributable to the application of inherent enlightened mind. Mind is itself the universal peerless teacher. One’s own mind stripped of the human mentality is just this mind; just this teacher. As such, it is available to all with the discipline, audacity and selfless open wonder to step over eternity itself. How do I know? By going through this and surpassing thoughts of "the other side" to take up gradual practice once again. This is because the function of enlightening being is itself the endless process of self refinement. Self-refinement freeing the capacity of primordial open awareness from the calcification brought on by the human mentality’s penchant for routine habituation is the gradual process of dissolving the ingrained habit-clusters that perpetuate self-reification. Enlightening activity deepens as self-refinement clarifies the basic mind-ground Honzhi refers to as the Empty Field. One uses worldly situations (the empty field of the world being none other than Mind itself) to the point where sudden realization naturally resonates having reached a critical harmonic point of no return. The "point of no return" is just experiencing nonorigination. One discovers that one has never been but thus: nonoriginated, selfless, aware. The point of no return is selfless knowledge of that which one has never otherwise not been, without ever beginning to be so. It has never begun even now. The reason why the Absolute has no such Buddha is because such a one cannot exist by virtue of nondifferentiated unity. "People turn into buddhas and buddhas turn into people." It's not that there has ever been a separate buddha-nature to awaken to. Even now, one's awareness is not created. Reality is Unborn. Having seen, one then seamlessly returns to the world having achieved nothing whatsoever. Buddha said, “Nothing is gained by complete perfect enlightenment”, All beings are thus". Seamless return to the emptied human mentality now fully empowered as the mind of tao which had always been thus, only now just discovered as thus, proves that there is only one mind, not two. Therefore, enlightening experience of no-mind, empty of voidness, impersonal, uncreated; the essential nature of creation, nonbeing within being, is the result constituting a potential entry actualized outside of time, being, creation, psychological and hence karmic matrices by virtue of fusion with cosmic immaterial primordial uncreated aware reality. Though you are not it, just this is your nature, your mind, right now. By the way, It IS a mystery. Really!! It is inconceivability. It is beyond understanding. Don’t even try. Such knowledge is not by the person, but by Mind alone. This potential permanent stability no different than the nature of awareness itself is the entry-level achievement. Inasmuch as permanent stability of ever-awakening enlightening function selflessly adapting to creation has reached a critical juncture fully dependent on further self-refining activity no different than before experiencing the sudden, is proof of gradual and sudden being a singular continuum. This is why I say that enlightening being functioning impersonally therefore adapting independent of former habits of self-reifying psychological patterns relative to illusory created karmic cycles constituting everyday ordinary situations is not dependent on sudden enlightenment. Enlightened mind is already in place, is already your inherent function; only obstructed by the human mentality unawares. This is the root of beginningless karmic bondage. By becoming aware of one's karmic actions, one learns to respond without employing self-reflexive patterns: thus habit energy isn't perpetuated unawares, and the process of self-refinement gradually proceeds without end transforming through numberless creative karmic cycles. Intellectuals refute reality as Mind, and attribute the basis to the being's psychological apparatus— it is obvious why the ancient discipline of open sincere wonder activating an objectless process of self-refinement leading to authentic entry into the path of complete reality independent of before and after and free of conditional identities is the prerequisite illuminating the positionless perspective that abides as the Unborn: being none other than your own mind right now. The spontaneous power released in terms of one’s own potential by that which is inherent in each situation one finds oneself in proves the basis of aware function as being unity inherent in karmic evolution (conditions/change), awaiting the perennial advance of the dharma as is. This is just stating that selfless unity is inherent, and that karma and enlightenment are therefore actually the same for those who see potential. Seeing potential is simply a matter of not experiencing the world relative to the habitual thought-energy of the person. One awakens to spiritual awareness by intending subtle observation of psychological awareness, over a long long time. Eventually, it craps out and one's heretofore unbroken stream of habitual thought is interrupted forever. Resting in the highest good is floating around within the "center of the compass" without categorizing a separate self identifiable in terms of a relative position. This is itself dispensing with habit-consciousness to impersonally adapt to situations. It is not that enlightening activity requires doing anything. Seeing through phenomena without denying their characteristics, taking over creation and stealing its potential is as easy as turning over one’s hand. If people only knew… It is simply one’s inherent impersonal enlightening function naturally so. Should one discover this function and accept its subtle application, one should then (as Honzhi says), take the forward step, entering the world to adapt the spiritual subtlety freely without admitting one’s own power and generously give of oneself without reservation in terms of entering situations completely without thoughts of survival. ed note:change "because" to "since" in 4th paragraph; typo 12th paragraph; typo 18th paragraph

It's a third person reference or usage of the "you." Which means "You" is used as an impersonal pronoun which can mean anyone at a time. A general usage of "you." The generic you is primarily used as a colloquial or less formal substitute for one. For instance, "Brushing one's teeth is healthy." can be expressed less formally as "Brushing your teeth is healthy. Hope that cleared up

Maybe taking things personally is normal when a person is talking to another person. It becomes impersonal only when one of them becomes deluded that they are something other than a person, above a person. Beyond a person. God isn't beyond a person, god is all inclusive, not anything above or beyond. I am not too attached to anyone. I am attached the exact amount to facilitate within me the grieving process to undergo the transformation that I have been waiting to experience since the moment I opened my eyes in this incarnation. Hahaha This made me laugh so much xD. How dare I... how dare I point out some rather insensitive and abrasive tendencies stemming from arrogance and entitlement, what an abuser am I. Ahaha Thank you for that dear India. That was prescious.

We were having a conversation about truth. The point I thought I made was that even if there is an objective truth, it can only ever be "known" (experienced) subjectively, and only described in words with relative accuracy. In this sense, no concept can be true. With this disclaimer in mind, I think that the concept that "the only truth is your own experience" (more specifically, Roger says "the impersonal sense of I Am") is valuable for dissolving the belief system that causes human suffering. Words are always imaginary and abstract, no? They can only be more or less accurate, more or less useful. In any case, the concept that "Life is predetermined" is really just pointing out that your choices are a result of your design and your conditioning (including the present-moment circumstance), and that Life only ever goes one way. As far as spiritual teachings go, I don't think it gets any less esoteric than this framework. How is "the attachment to the self identity" not an abstract religious concept? ;P Tongue in cheek aside, I would appreciate if you could explain what you meant by that.

There is an ancient taoist fable about a sheepherder boy who transcends the requirements of convention (maintenance of worldly concerns akin to duty), by changing the nature of his duty without violating the basis of what constitutes one’s natural relationship with creation. Yes, one actually has a relationship with Creation. Its activation is the selfless intent of the real human body which has no location. One’s intent beckons an open sincerity of enlightening being by its sustained, unbending quality. This is naturally inconceivable, naturally gradual entry into the nature of Power. Sincere openness beckons the fruition of the selfless intent of the body of reality, which is one’s immaterial center, the locus of one’s aware living potential energy. Beyond nexus, such is Mind. Open awareness is its substance, function, and intent. Sincere openness is the go-between, entering where the elements of the primal organization are not differentiated in the macrocosm nor in the microcosm. It is the most subtle and exquisite vessel of enlightening beings. It is the point where thought arises. It is the door to all marvels. It is just this open sincere intent of one’s real body where the Way alights and wells forth. Enlightening partnership in creation transcends one’s subjectivity to it. In working it, so to speak, one lets go of the small to partake of the great. It is a matter of clarifying the basis of one’s awareness, one’s relationship with awareness, that karmic evolution becomes a partner in oneself, and one is then no longer subject to its changes. Working it is the ability of buddhas, wizards, saints, sages and the enlightening beings of all times. Its active capacity is the inherent spiritual function of enlightening being. Self-reflective activity trapped within desire, form and formlessness is the function of sentient beings. The respective functions are carried out dutifully bound as a matter of course in everyday ordinary situations; the former, before the first thought, and the latter, after the first thought. What is this point of illumination at the cusp of the first thought? Who knows that it is possible to rest here at the point of incipient upwelling of potential before the first thought in perpetuity. Though "subject" to karmic influences, one adapts impersonally along with Creation, or not. Correct concentration and insight into the nature of Mind and furthermore maintaining a subtle continuous extension of mindful observation on this nature of Mind while functioning adaptively in ordinary affairs eventually develops into an unbending impersonal intent of open sincerity subtly harmonizing with the Way. Harmonizing with the Way and its Power is making a bid with its Power, since the essence of the Way is the nature of human being. Power is its source, whereas its nature is our affinity with its Virtue. This is why seeing reality is the Way (in terms of incipient potential) as one's manifest virtuous accord in Reality. Through a long process, self-refinement reaches a natural harmony with the Way, and one’s bid is recognized impersonally as resonance attuned to its Power. From that point on, enlightening being operates by a selfless fundamental reversal of the nature of one’s relationship with Creation hitherto unknown to ordinary people, who, furthermore, have no idea what constitutes their own nature. Ordinary people follow the light of creation within personalistic (selfishly) attuned ignorance, whereas enlightening beings turn the light around to align themselves with its universal undifferentiated source of illumination. There is nothing to understand. This is why it is called entry into inconceivability. No one knows there's nothing to know. The source isn’t anywhere else but here and now. It’s you; though you are not it. Being here and now without employing psychological patterns habitually differentiating before and after, self and other, is already the light turned around. The terminology is only words, not the reality. The work of self-refinement is the dissolution of the mental patterns veiling authentic presence. Negotiating the viscidities of here and now is enlightening being; it is neither different nor the same as before and after, self and others because real knowledge is void of habitual mental patterns of discriminatory consciousness. This is why the nonpsychological is spiritual. This is not a matter of sudden illumination, nor does its effect depend on the sudden. The spiritual is the very nature of the sudden. Therefore, the work of enlightening activity is the activation of the nature of the sudden operating in the midst of the gradual. Not only is this the nature of buddhahood, it is the nature of one’s own unborn awareness right now in the light of your eyes. It’s Mind through and through. This is not a meditative exercise. One does not see light!! The light does not look like lights. Even ordinary light is essentially immaterial. How can the light of awareness be conceived? If you see lights, and instead want to see reality, stop whatever it is you are doing. ”Wonders” derivative of the psychological storehouse are not the light. Seeing the light is a formative reversal of one’s relationship with creation whereby the psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die now reverts to facilitating enlightening activity instead of being its hinderance. As such, all things are just this light. The light looks just like things because the light is the essence of things. So seeing the light isn’t a mystical contrivance at all. It never has been. It’s just that people only see through self-reflective patterns of habit energy and don’t see the light of awareness by virtue of true reality, which is your own mind constituting nondifferentiated unity being the nature of reality alone. Essence is things, yet things are not it. Therefore seeing reality is the basis of not being subject to creation. Seeing is not visible, it is solitary knowledge constituting enlightening being, not the person. Reality is seeing without activation of personalistic patterns of habit energy. Such seeing is the means to absorption of potential. The ancient alchemic manuals state that “whatever can be seen is not to be used; only use that which cannot be seen.” The medicines are immaterial. Fusing them permanently in terms of the spiritual potential of the being that is going to die is the work of alchemy. Those who work with material and plasmic elements will come to an impasse. Clarifying the basis of one’s awareness, one’s relationship with awareness, karmic evolution becomes a partner in oneself, and one is no longer subject to its changes. All things reverting to potential in oneself doesn’t change anything. That’s the point of transcending changes. Changes aren’t potential. Only creation changes. The business of stealing potential is absorbing the stability inherent in one’s essential unborn awareness by virtue of and in spite of things. Partnership with creation is embodying the function of fundamental unity which is the light. The stability of illumination is your nature, which is changeless. One’s partnership with creation is proven by seeing Change. One sees Change by not following its changes unawares. How difficult is that? How difficult is it to not follow thoughts unawares? Not being subject to creation is before the first thought. That’s how close reality is. Before the first thought is Mind. Observing this Mind, how important is correct concentration and insight into the nature of Mind? Furthermore, how is maintaining a subtle continuous extension of mindful observation on this nature of Mind while functioning adaptively in ordinary affairs important to turning the light of this Mind around? In seeing the light, one partakes of the nature of the light and does not entertain acquisitive, speculative relationships with things based on patterns reifying the multifarious personality’s karmic imprint. Why? Because enlightening beings see that things are not absolute in terms of the nature of creation (which is karmic), in turning the light around. It is not a matter of belief, or faith. One does not act as if…(?) Reality is the way it is already. Reality does not depend on seeing. Seeing depends on you. If you see reality, then you do not abide in karmic energy, and the totality of the being that is going to die is the nature of enlightenment. In turning the light around, things revert to unrefined potential in terms of enlightening beings seeing reality. This is how one “steals potential”— it is just a matter of (one’s operating the light in reverse that is) not partaking in the created aspect of karmic evolution whereby one “absorbs” potential. It is not that one takes anything, or that things themselves miraculously stop acting like things overflowing in their foolishness, poisoned, deluded. It is simply seeing for oneself that there is nothing whatsoever to take (in terms of transcendent relationship in the created), that one “frees” potential inherent in any given situational event and then stores it away in secrecy void of intellectualism. The upshot is that one accumulates the subsequently purified primordial energy for enlightening evolution by oneself for the purposes of one’s duty, carried out as a highly-refined relationship with creation based on its (the created’s) uncreated potential. It is found neither in oneself nor in others; it is itself in Reality alone.

Another painful reminder of how fragile one's existence is, and how sudden and impersonal death can be. His determination, work ethic, and mental resilience will always provide great inspiration for me.

"This is a communication that illuminates the paradoxical nature of non-duality and exposes the misconception that it is something that can be appropriated or experienced. There are no personal demands or expectations here, nor is there any intention of satisfying in any way the seeker’s need for progress or a path. This uncompromising message can be both challenging and liberating. The entire personal effort to achieve spiritual progress, more awareness, greater silence, more openness, or even change, can seem to dissolve in the face of this radical revelation. The entire perception of “the self” or “the world” in which “one” seems to live can apparently collapse, leaving nothing to support the illusion of separation, control and continuity. Suddenly there is only emptiness, but paradoxically there is also the abundance and freedom one longs for". - Tony Parsons When this apparent ME fell away, it was like there was nothing left for anything to attach to. The feeling was light and free, but for No One. Simultaneously it's recognized that the individual ME never existed in the first place, it was just apparent energy manifesting as a separate entity within the body. There is no sticky sense of ME left somewhere inside the body for things to attach to. Emotions labels feelings thoughts just fall away. It's a complete impersonal experience now ❤ Existence continues to happen but for No One...it just is what it is. The resistance to what is no longer arises because there is no one left that believes it should be one way or the other. There is no meaning purpose or value to anything. "nothing really matters" Free Will and Choice are an illusion created by the egoic self agenda of the separate self. Once the illusion of the separate self collapses All That Remains is THIS... THIS is Paradise... THIS is Freedom... THIS is Liberation... THIS is Enlightenment, and it was always the case ?

The division of the human mind is four-fold: Sensing Feeling Intuition Thinking It has two perceiving (1 and 3) and two judging (2 and 4) functions. The perceiving functions are how objective, external, information is gathered. The judging functions are how subjective, internal state is created. The [subjective=internal]/[objective=external] dichotomy exists only in relation to will, or creation, of the human mind. Whatever we perceive exists outside of the influence of will of human mind and has to be acknowledged, accepted. (Yin) Whatever we judge exists inside of the influence of will of human mind and can be interpreted however one desires. (Yang) The human will is capable of creating subjective reality that is, or isn't, in accordance with the objective one. Since the objective reality along with human mind is created in the mind of THE ALL, the Hermetic principles can be studied both by studying subjective and/or objective reality. This is why self-knowledge derived from spiritual practices is useful and is the source of happiness - it is, at the same, the highest knowledge about the operation of reality. That is only possible because the human mind is created in the image of the mind of THE ALL and is equipped with the will to create: The mind of THE ALL is not impersonal because it creates.

Someone asked about how orthodox taoism views non-heterosexuality beyond the subtlety that anything that can be named… Is it ok to be gay, bi, amorally disposed, lesbian, hetero, polyamorous, unconventionally asexual, exploring BDSM, or otherwise? I say it is a matter of choice, whereas others insist in mainstream justifications in terms of identifying as if they were born whichever way they are currently preferring to express their potentials as such~ as if it matters. For the record, it doesn't matter. The simple actualization of a sexual preference doesn't make anyone special~ unless that preference is a delusional ego-trip based on an erroneous misunderstanding of sexual equality, which is not a term of identity, but one of reproductive functionality. Obviously, only a biologically organ-based hetero-sexual act results in reproduction. It's not supposed to to be an identity issue, unless socialized medicine and tax deductions are the motvation. At any rate, detachment is key. Sex is sex. Learning to adapt psychic energies relative to vitality in the elementary processes of taoist practice is the means to spiritual (nonpsychological) evolution. "Find the one and your work is done"; and your psychological nature will follow suit~ along with the clusters of circumstantial patterns of preferential sexual expression relative to the personality. All situations are essentially sexual. The nature of basic existence is dual. It's in the air. Sex is sex. Sex is another word for duality. Emotions are emotions. Psychological identity is what is it. These all relate to ego, the personality's valid functionary; these being an ultimately formidable illusion of created human being. The expression of human refinement in terms of taoist parlance is the sage. Who is the sage? Taoist teaching states that the world is the sage. It's not that far-fetched, but to see reality as such requires a monumental change of perspective of one individual (at a time). And who might that be? The point of taoism is to discover spiritual essential unity by virtue of the differential characteristics of karmic evolution. Its effect does not depend on sudden enlightenment– selfless realization only proves the point. In the aftermath of realization, one must still return to tend social obligations. That being the case, why not start now? Using sex is a brilliant strategy. Situations are themselves the access-point of self-refinement. Situations are each created cycles in and of themselves. Yang builds and switches to yin. Likewise, yin's convergence goes through it's incremental process and the cycle is completed. One yin and one yang is one change. That is the essence of taoist science. That's all there is to taoism in a nutshell. Does anyone believe that the ancients left it at that? Universal potential is hidden within change. In fact, it is hidden as change. Those who can see Change do not go along with karmic/creative/eternal changes. That's what immortality is. What does this mean? It means that those who see Change gather its potential— which is the point of the taoist sciences of essence and life which is perfected in public everyday ordinary situations, not by special applications of meditative technique or by psychosomatic manipulation through energetic exercises done in private. All cloistered regimens are beginners' points of entry, being modes of discipline to align the individual in terms of harmony with the unseen. One should always be wary of cultivating attachment to so-called methods of comfort, i.e.: formal constructs of meditation geared toward the vagaries of personal preference relative to the personality. In the midst of these "special" exercises, always keep a keen eye on objective awareness overseeing subtle attachment, as in the case of habitual practitioners of meditative regimens prolonged for 20 or 30 years, or more, without resultant shedding of the skin-bag. Those clinging to such habitual practice eventually turn into occupational ghouls attached to teachers, teachings and traditions without ever leaving the zero-point of the intent of such institutional contexts beyond which spontaneously actualizes a passing through into authentic entry of real potential. In terms of taoist alchemy, potential is recognized by virtue of situations themselves, where initially it is base metabolism which is refined. Emotional equilibrium is essential, hence the admonition for detachment. If one can avoid clinging to others as well as one's own psychological patterns, then the natural process of refinement works spontaneously from vitality> energy> spirit without involving psychological emotionalism and intellectualism. Ultimately, detachment (not denial) serves as an inconceivable, empty vessel which can be said to facilitate sealing the natural alchemic development of potential until it is ripe for release. So "gathering" potential is only a symbolic euphemism relative to seeing. As well, it is entry-level in each instance of situational evolution in terms of refining oneself by virtue of created cycles of yin and yang. Analogous buddhist teaching states that we use the disease as the medicine. At the penultimate end of each cycle, release of potential is where spirit is emptied out into openness. None of this entire process requires doing. Taoist teaching states that that which is seen is not to be used; that which is unseen is what is used. In each case it is a matter of non-doing. Sexual preference is immaterial. But sex must come from somewhere. That place is what Chuangtzi calls the "homeland of nothing whatsoever." He says to rest there. When you see your nature, you realize the erotic spark IS your nature— or at least it is the created aspect of its light when yin and yang fuse. It's no wonder so many people (with the fabulous energy to do so) chase after sexual encounters with zeal and crave sexual unity in whatever guise it is manifest. What matters above all is impersonal (open) sincerity. Granted, what I have presented here is quite a stretch for most people. It's not a bad thing to hear it, though. Some day there are those who will assume the will to enlightenment as the endless journey to realize the totality of the being that is going to die. So if anyone just wanted to know if it's ok to have homosexual relations~ your guess is as good as mine …heehee!!❤︎❤︎ ed note: change the word "justification" to justification(s), in 2nd paragraph; add second paragraph; typo 7th paragraph; add "applications of meditative technique or by psychosomatic manipulation through" to last sentence of 9th paragraph; add last sentence to 10th paragraph

@Serotoninluv @Identity Was just reading this.... thought it seemed relevant Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” The first mistake people often make in reading this verse is to consider the words “heaven” and “earth” as literally the globe we live on and the idea that heaven is a physical location out there somewhere. Divorce your mind of that idea. The kingdom of heaven is within you, and you are the earth. But what does this mean? Heaven and earth universally symbolize spirit and matter. The true you is a spirit having a material existence. “Heaven” and “earth” are simply terms to help the intellect grasp the unfoldment of the ONE abiding reality, which is neither spirit nor matter. In ancient philosophical terms, spirit is active while matter is receptive. Think of spirit as energy, and matter as lifeless form that is receptive to this energy. Matter is simply the vehicle of form, which is ultimately illusory because it is subject to change.The spirit side of God is masculine / male, while the feminine aspect of God is female / receptive. They are both eternal. Matter receives spirit, and life commences through a spirit-matter interaction, the first Logos (consciousness). Spirit must have a body / mother / matter / earth to experience through. Genesis 1:3: “And God said, let there be light: and there was light.” In verses one and two, the unmanifest, unconscious, and impersonal Absolute (God) has begun the process of it’s own self-realization. How does this self-realization of its potential become actual? Through his right hand (symbolizing power and potential becoming actual), which is also the New Testament concept of Christ. Light, God’s light, symbolizes the dawn of self awareness or individual human consciousness. This was in the philosophical mind of the writer of the Gospel of John when he states, “In him was life, and that life (individual consciousness) was the light of men.” It is the spark of individuality, which must be built up through the experiences on each plane of existence (expanding its sphere of realization), through the physical (senses, sensations), the emotional (feelings), the mental (thoughts), the spiritual (intellect allied with intuition, wisdom and love), and finally, the fullness of Christ where he becomes all in all, in us. And this act of light symbolizes the impersonal God becoming personal as a self-aware, conscious soul through mankind. Genesis 1:27: “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” What does it mean to be created in the image of God, both male and female? We are not speaking of literal sexes. Rather, the male-female principle which is found in nature of the lower planes is a reflection of the higher nature found on the upper planes in a spiritual sense. Male / female signifies spirit-matter, love-wisdom, mind-emotion, and intellect-intuition. Being created male / female in the image of God is the higher nature ruling completely over the lower nature. This ONENESS becomes dual when Adam and Eve partake of the tree of knowledge and become physical beings outside of the Garden. The mind becomes split, dual, and the mind and emotions, even intellect and intuition, are separate. God tells man to have dominion over all creatures of the earth. Remember, the earth is us, and all the living things in the earth are within us. We must have dominion over the lower nature where all these creatures are symbolic of thought, emotion, sensation, desire, etc. Many Christians have taken this verse to mean we are to literally rule over all animals. Try to tell a polar bear, lion, great white shark, or whale what to do. You can’t. The only power you have over them is your intellect, which can make or build things to contain animals or kill them. But even animals are a part of the human soul, and your physical evolution upon this earth was dependent on them. American Indians understood this truth, and they called animals their brothers, for which they had great respect. (from spiritofthescriptures.com)

If that's the case then the illusion wasn't completely seen through. THIS turns into a completely impersonal experience

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I want to post some relevant quotes that are to the point and in my frame of reference resolve some disparities which have been expressed. In case anyone finds it of interest. Relating Without Object Relations The Pearl beyond price can relate in a personal way without the need to activate past object relations. So its capacity is not only innate but also natural and spontaneous. It is Possible to Experience Egoless Beingness Thus it is possible to experience egoless beingness, to be, as a substantial presence that is not a mental construct, and still live a human, personal life, in which love, work, knowledge, creativity and accomplishment make sense, a human sense. This true existence, this presence, this being beyond time that makes sense of human and personal life, is the Personal Essence. It is the reality of which ego is only a reflection. It is the truly integrated and developed human being. This is the beautiful presence that the traditional literature of work schools calls the “pearl beyond price.” The experience of universal impersonality of ultimate reality occurs when the separate individuality is transcended, when the separate individuality is seen not to be our true self. But this is the result of transcending the personality in its totality. Something different happens when we investigate the personality’s manifestations in more detail, exploring the hidden essential truth within it. The ego is a reflection of this true element of Being, the Personal Essence, and exploring the characteristics of the reflection can lead us to the reality being reflected. By isolating and understanding the elements of the false, we can begin to approach the elements of the real. The Essential Structure that the Soul Develops as She Metabolizes and Transcends her Ego Structure The pearl can also be seen as the essential structure that the soul develops as she metabolizes and transcends her ego structure. Ego structure gives the ego-self the sense of being an autonomous and unique individual. But this structure is constructed through fixed mental impressions in the soul; hence it both dissociates her from her essential ground and limits her development because of its rigidity and fixation. The essential pearl provides the soul with a sense of individuality and personhood that does not depend on fixed impressions, but on spontaneously arising forms of essential presence that structure her experience of herself and give her the capacity to function as a person. The soul matures and transforms into a person of essence. However, the qualities and actions of this person are quite fluid and flexible and are objective responses resonant to the needs and inputs of the environment. The Pearl is an Ontological Presence The pearl is the real, complete, balanced, and rounded personality that psychologists believe they are talking about when they are discussing the ego. We must remember that the ego is a structure, or structured process, whereas the pearl is Essence, which means the pearl is an ontological Presence. We call it the Personal Essence because among all the essential aspects it alone is personal. It is experienced as having a personal flavor to it, in contradistinction to impersonal. All aspects of Essence, even love and kindness, are impersonal. But the pearl is personal. And this is its miraculous quality, totally unexpected and unfathomable. From https://www.diamondapproach.org/glossary/refinery_phrases/pearl-beyond-price I posted 4 out of the 12 quotes from this web page in the Glossary.

@Nak Khid Man, I really hope one day you change. Now there's no talking with "we". If you really want to be so close to Truth stop using pronouns at all and make every sentence impersonal. "The post was written.", "The soup was eaten".

I'm laughing because I feel vindicated in my speculation that those who privilege impersonal forms of communication, over friendly forms of communication, are easily offended because they live in relatively more fear and discomfort than friendly types. I sensed that my interlocutor had been offended, and was therefore fearful. I offered to empathize with his fear, if, indeed, he was fearful. But he refused to engage with me in a friendly and self disclosing way. Or so it seemed to me. To me, friendliness toward others is a function of friendliness toward oneself. And the reason I am comparing 5meodmt to eye gazing is that I believe those who privilege impersonal ~ drug ~ experiences over interpersonal experiences (such as eye gazing), are relatively less friendly. I'm merely revealing my self talk here. I make no claims to "rightness." My bias is that friendly and intersubjective experiences are more likely to bring one closer to "enlightenment," than unfriendly and impersonal experiences. I am at odds with the notion, for example, that the universe, "as a matter of incontrovertible fact," is impersonal. Here I am not in synch with Leo. I believe the universe IS, as he says, a projection of the "self," and THEREFORE, IS personal, to the point of personable. And, if one has a friendly relationship to oneself, I believe, one attributes friendliness to the universe, as well. It is more Godlike to be friendly than it is to be unfriendly, IMO. And again, I honor ALL relationships to self and other. So, I honor anyone who seems, for whatever reason, "unfriendly." Their experience is just as divine as any other. My universe is so infinitely friendly that it honors unfriendliness, unconditionally, as well. Or so I like to believe, at least on my best days..

@Serotoninluv Actually, it IS a conversation I would like to have with someone. But I'm hesitant to have it with you, because I just have this feeling that you are more interested in objectifying the experience, giving it some kind of scientific significance, whereas I'm averse to that, and have a profound preference for making warm and gentle, subjective connections with ppl. I've had my fill of conversations whose primary motivation was to establish some impersonal truth. But I haven't had my fill of conversations whose primary motivation it is to establish trust, friendship and mutual affinity.

The absolute non-relative reality does not accept plurality. It needs maya to become differatiated when it "desires" to know itself. It becomes differatiated into two extremes, spirit (cousciousness) and matter (substance), subject and object. Energy (divine love) is the thing that glues spirit and matter together after its differintation as two sides of the same coin and becoming the mysterious "bridge" between subject and object. So there are three main aspects to the macrocosm, spirit, matter and energy. But the absolute reality will BE (-ness) whether there is a manifested universe or not. (As it is "attributes" as space, motion and duration.) Spirit which is almost identical to the logos of the absolute and needs the differintiated matter to manifesti itself as many rays from the One. Everything of being and non-being are aspects of absolute. This is according to the esoteric eastern theory. I dont know if its True, it sounds good. Maybe your theory is more representative of the Truth. The question is, why did "God" being a law "created" me and you(?). What purpouse? To know that we are All the impersonal cousciousness? Or to have itself realized that everything is the Absolute which is uncomprehensible?

It is created from an existential light force, just because it did. It involved no God, no creator, the existential force exists simply because it just does. There is therefor (obviously) also a existential reality, that you did not imagine, but actually live in. It is from and with impersonal Consciousness, and therefor made of 'mind', but it is more real than what you can imagine with a personal mind, because reality is prior to personal mind, albeit personal mind can have a role in apparently altering some of the manifestation, to various degrees, at times. But it never reaches an actual complete control, because complete, meaning engulfing all aspects, is already to be beyond the personal mind, in which no such motivations exist.

"without taking earthly action"...is a First-tier concept. For example,...Meditators HATE me,...when I bring up the subject of Non-meditation. They have invested many, many years sitting,...it has become their opium. The most threatening thing for First-tier thinkers is the confrontation between everything they believe to be meaningful, and the reality that it is all meaningless. “If your purpose is to medicate dukkha,...then meditate. If your wish is bodhi,...practice absolute bodhicitta.” "Free yourself from meditation, practice non-meditation" - Kyergangpa Chökyi Senge Turquoise is a game changer,..it's the Great Juncture between Sense Beings and Spiritual Beings. Thus the First-tier speculation of Second-tier value systems , and First-tier understanding of Second-tier value systems, pivots from First-tier paradigms. Clare Graves was quite correct in saying, "First-tier thinkers (first 6 substance levels of Spiral Dynamics) cannot recognize the Second-tier on their own, and react negatively if challenged; lashing out whenever it is threatened." Spiral Dynamic Value Systems attempts to be a model for determining how we make a decision and set priorities in our lives. Value Systems within the 6 lower Substance levels of SD, being rooted in the senses, always pivot from falsity,...what Buddhists call the Five Skandhas. On the other hand,..."A wise man (Turquoise SD 8), recognizing that the world is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real" Bukkyo Dendo Kyokai. First-tier thinkers believe that the Turquoise (SD 8) who doesn't take action is unhealthy,...because unlike Turquoise (SD 8) they have no comprehension that Space-Time is One,...thus, there is no action to take,...only the following of Spirit without hesitation. Turquoise (SD 8) does not seek to be directly involved to solve complex global issues, but desires Sentient Beings to become aware of their sentience for what it is. Turquoise (SD 8) realize that suffering is a consequence of the desire for things to be other than they are. Buddha did not say don't desire,...but don't desire for things to be other than they are. Sentient Beings don't understand the way things are. "The senses do not grasp reality in any way" Socrates Because high functioning Yellow (SD 7) are open to learning at any time and from any source, like bees that gather nectar from many flowers, they are among the few who can converse with Turquoise (SD 8) in an unguarded way. Turquoise (SD 8) must engage the Substance Levels in carefully orchestrated ways, or find themselves being physically threatened. "People don't like their version of reality fucked with." Jed McKenna At Turquoise (SD 8) personal truths, 'me stories,' and individual versions of reality are irrelevant. Values of Turquoise include: Life is a Dream. Unfeigned surrender to the Spirit that underlies all Form. Metasensory insight. Absolute Truth. Elevating the Conscious Awareness of Humanity. the Other Compassion. Direct Gnowledge, not Past Knowledge. Emancipation from things Divine. Recognition of the in-breath/out-breath of rhythmic balanced interchange. Holistic view - Fulcum, One Lever, Yang and Yin. Unconditional honesty. Non-sensory intuition. Impersonal. Non-meditation. Transcender. Appreciation of the One Space-Time. Humility is merely a degree of pride. Real Emotion (vs positive and negative emotion). Unfabricated Present Awareness. Flow with Spirit without hesitation. Non-sensory integrity. Realization that Higher Self may be stuck. Aware of Absolute vs Relative. Avoidance of hope and fear. Liberation from the 6 senses. Simplicity and Ease. Selfless Living. Cooperative vs Competitive. One foot in the manifest, one foot in the Unmanifest.

I am not fully convinced either. I think having a pure heart is Good. People can agree on what is good or bad, and they do it all the time. For example, sticking your hand in fire for no reason is not good. Living with deception is not good. Going back on agreements is not considered good, especially from an impersonal standpoint. For example, If I were to hang out with one of you who do not believe in good or bad. And if we went out to dinner and agreed to split the check, and then after finishing my meal, I left you with the check. That was not good and any conscious human would recognize it as not being good. If we could not make the distinction of good and bad, I do not even think society would have evolved as complex as it is. To me Good is what is good for the whole. Fairness and Cooperation. Even monkey's understand Fairness and Cooperation:

@Angelite God may be genderless, but the gods are not. I realise these concepts are hard for a monotheist to accept, but you have to look at the origins of all this. El is gendered, he was the Ugaritic skygod, originally called An in Sumerian. Anunnaki / Elohim is also gendered, it can be translated as sons of the Sky (god), though it does cover both gods and goddesses ultimately. Who are the angels? Well, they are winged messengers of God. Where does this idea of winged beings come from? The gods of Sumer, who are also depicted with wings and they are most certainly gendered. Angels may be beings of light, as you perceive them. However, that is looking at them from a particular perspective. They may have many different aspects and incarnations, spread out over time, space and dimensions in ways that is hard for a human brain to perceive. Speaking of God and Gender, I have to borrow from Tantra for a moment here, to explain the concept. Brahman, the unmanifest absolute is indeed genderless, as well impersonal. It is conscious potentiality. However, in order to manifest and create, Brahman has to separate itself into opposing forces, thus duality and with it male and female are born. In Tantra, this is indicated through the duality of Shiva and Shakti, God and Goddess. Shakti (also known as the Shekinah in Judaism) is the female, creative aspect of God, it is what manifests everything there is. In our manifest reality, we exist in dualities, which includes male and female and that applies to the gods as well. I realise that referring to the gods as Elohim is controversial, but in my experience, that is what they prefer to be called in their collective consciousness state. Each individual god can easily go in and out of collective consciousness, as they please. When in "Oneness" mode, they are one, but they can also be separate depending on the situation, hence our confusion regarding the dichotomy and inherent duality in God/gods.

Is it by taking a high jump or perhaps by a rocket or through a mental leap [that you want to 'reach reality']? And where exactly out there is this reality, and what will it do for you, that you are so anxious to reach it? Don't you realize how funny all this is? • Trying to capture the unknown and unknowable within the parameters of the known is impossible: That which was prior to this body and consciousness, that which is ever-present . . . that is your true identity . . . that is reality. • When the impersonal consciousness personalized itself by identification with the sentient object, thinking of it as 'I', the effect was to transform the 'I', which was essentially the subject, into an object. It is this objectivation of pure subjectivity, this false identifying of the unlimited with the limited, which can be called bondage. It is from this entity-fication that freedom is sought. Liberation, therefore, can be nothing other than the immediate understanding that self-identification is false . . . . . – freedom is the unshakeable knowledge of your real nature; it is the total negation of entityness. Once it is understood that an entity is merely a conceptual notion, then what follows is a reintegration into universality. Then you just watch life 'being lived', realizing that relatively speaking, you as manifestation are but a puppet being manipulated in a dream world. When you apperceive this intuitively, spontaneously, thoughtlessly, then this itself will be the awakening from this maya-dream. Having understood that there can never be any individual entity with independent choice of action, then how could 'you' entertain any intentions? And in the absence of intentions how could there be any involvement with karma? Then, you become perfectly aligned with whatever happens, accepting events without any feeling either of achievement or frustration. Such living would then be non-volitional living, an absence of doing and deliberate non-doing, going through your allotted span of life wanting nothing and avoiding nothing, free of conceptualizing and objectivation. Then, when this phenomenal life disappears in due course it leaves you in absolute presence. Nisargadatta Maharaj

Nahm Moderator 14,549 posts Posted 10 hours ago · The hardest thing about meditation is starting, because you don’t know how beneficial it is until you practice. The second hardest thing is feeling so good you start skipping the practices. Walking Meditation Walking meditation is a great way to begin integrating the power of meditation into your daily life. It is the first stage of meditation in action, that is, learning to be meditative while "out and about" in the world. It is great to do while, for example, taking a walk in the park, at the beach, or in another natural setting. Walking meditation is often recommended for people who are doing a lot of sitting meditation. If you are getting to sleepy, or your awareness is getting to "muddy," walking meditation can perk you up. Alternately, if you are getting to concentrated and mentally "stiff," walking meditation is a perfect way to loosen up a bit. Walking meditation is a common practice in Vipassana and Zen Buddhism. Pay close attention to the physical activity of walking slowly 1. Before walking, stand still in an open, balanced posture. Bring your awareness to the feeling of your feet touching the ground. 2. Now begin walking. Keep your gaze fixed on the ground about six feet in front of you. This will help you to avoid distraction. 3. Note and mentally label three parts of each step you take. The labels are "lifting," "pushing," and "dropping." Lifting - when you are picking your foot up Pushing - as you are moving it forward Dropping - as you are lowering it to the ground As you make each label, pay very close attention to the actual physical sensations associated with each of these actions. 4. After these three components become clear, you can add three more, so that the entire sequence is: "raising," "lifting," "pushing," "dropping," "touching," and "pressing." 5. Your mind will probably also engage in thinking extraneous thoughts, but just allow these to go on in the background. Your foreground attention should stay on the physical sensations of walking. 6. If you find that you have been completely lost in thought, stop walking for a moment and label the thinking as "thinking, thinking, thinking." 7. Then re-establish your awareness on the feeling in your feet, and begin the walking meditation again. 8. A typical session of walking meditation lasts a half an hour. CAUTIONS: Make sure to watch where you are going, especially if you are around traffic, other people, etc. https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/meditation-practices Awareness of Thoughts Meditation By learning to watch your thoughts come and go during this practice, you can gain deeper insight into thinking altogether (such as its transience) and into specific relationships among your thoughts and your emotions, sensations, and desires. This practice can also help you take your thoughts less personally, and not automatically believe them. Additionally, this meditation can offer insight into any habitual patterns of thinking and related reactions. Observe your thoughts as they arise and pass away. · By “thoughts,” we mean self-talk and other verbal content, as well as images, memories, fantasies, and plans. Just thoughts may appear in awareness, or thoughts plus sensations, emotions, or desires. · Sit or lie down on your back in a comfortable position. · Become aware of the sensations of breathing. · After a few minutes of following your breath, shift your attention to the various thoughts that are arising, persisting, and then passing away in your mind. · Try to observe your thoughts instead of getting involved with their content or resisting them. · Notice the content of your thoughts, any emotions accompanying them, and the strength or pull of the thought. · Try to get curious about your thoughts. Investigate whether you think in mainly images or words, whether your thoughts are in color or black and white, and how your thoughts feel in your body. · See if you notice any gaps or pauses between thoughts. · Every time you become aware that you are lost in the content of your thoughts, simply note this and return to observing your thoughts and emotions. · Remember that one of the brain’s major purposes is to think, and there is nothing wrong with thinking. You are simply practicing not automatically believing and grasping on to your thoughts. · When you are ready, return your attention to your breath for a few minutes and slowly open your eyes. Optional: · There are various metaphors and images you can use to help observe your thoughts. These include: o Imagining you are as vast and open as the sky, and thoughts are simply clouds, birds, or planes passing through the open space. o Imagining you are sitting on the side of a river watching your thoughts float by like leaves or ripples in the stream. o Imagine your thoughts are like cars, buses, or trains passing by. Every time you realize you are thinking, you can “get off the bus/train” and return to observing. Awareness of thoughts and emotions is one of the areas of focus developed when cultivating mindfulness. In Buddhism, mindfulness is one of the seven factors of enlightenment and the seventh instruction in the Noble Eightfold Path. The Seven Factors of Enlightenment: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/piyadassi/wheel001.html The Four Noble Truths:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths The Noble Eightfold Path: https://tricycle.org/magazine/noble-eightfold-path/ CAUTIONS: Please be gentle with yourself if you notice that you are constantly caught up in your thoughts instead of observing them. This is both common and normal. When you realize that you are thinking, gently and compassionately return to observing your thoughts. If the content of your thoughts is too disturbing or distressing, gently shift your attention to your breathing, sounds, or discontinue the practice. · Remember that you are not trying to stop thoughts or only allow certain ones to arise. Try to treat all thoughts equally and let them pass away without engaging in their content. · This practice can initially be more challenging than other meditations. As you are learning, practice this meditation for only a few minutes at a time if that is easier. · It can be helpful to treat thoughts the same way that you treat sounds or body sensations, and view them as impersonal events that arise and pass away. · Some people like to assign numbers or nicknames to reoccurring thoughts in order to reduce their pull and effect. Breathe Awareness Meditation Stress is an extremely unhealthy condition. It causes the body to release the chemical cortisol, which has been shown to reduce brain and organ function, among many other dangerous effects. Modern society inadvertently encourages a state of almost continuous stress in people. This is a meditation that encourages physical and mental relaxation, which can greatly reduce the effects of stress on the body and mind. Sit still and pay close attention to your breathing process. Take a reposed, seated posture. Your back should be straight and your body as relaxed as possible. Close your eyes, and bring your attention to your breathing process. Simply notice you are breathing. Do not attempt to change your breath in any way. Breath simply and normally. Try to notice both the in breath and the out breath; the inhale and the exhale. "Notice" means to actually feel the breathing in your body with your body. It is not necessary to visualize your breathing or to think about it in any way except to notice it with your somatic awareness. Each time your attention wanders from the act of breathing, return it to noticing the breath. Do this gently and without judgment. Remember to really feel into the act of breathing. If you want to go more deeply into this, concentrate on each area of breathing in turn. Here is an example sequence: 1. Notice how the air feels moving through your nostrils on both the in breath and the out breath. 2. Notice how the air feels moving through your mouth and throat. You may feel a sort of slightly raspy or ragged feeling as the air moves through your throat. This is normal and also something to feel into. 3. Notice how the air feels as it fills and empties your chest cavity. Feel how your rib cage rises slowly with each in breath, and gently deflates with each out breath. 4. Notice how your back expands and contracts with each breath. Actually feel it shifting and changing as you breath. 5. Notice how the belly expands outward with each in breath and pulls inward with each in breath. Allow your attention to fully enter the body sensation of the belly moving with each breath. 6. Now allow your attention to cover your entire body at once as you breath in and out. Closely notice all the sensations of the body as it breathes. Repeat this sequence over and over, giving each step your full attention as you do it. Suggested time is at least 10 minutes. Thirty minutes is better, if you are capable of it. If you find yourself distracted by a lot of mental chatter, you can use verbal labeling as an aid to concentration. For example, on the in breath, mentally say to yourself, "Breathing in." On the out breath, say, "Breathing out." Another possibility is to mentally count each breath. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=92i5m3tV5XY User Quote Bookmark Nonduality & Meditations Now “ ...every revolutionary act, is an act of love...” - Zach de la Rocha Quote this ivory Member 462 posts Posted 9 hours ago · If I had to pick two practices to maintain for the rest of my life I'd pick breathing exercises and going on daily walks. In learning to breathe properly a good majority of thinking is reduced. If I had to estimate, I would say that 2/3 of my thinking ceases when I am practicing regularly. Imagine being 66% less stressed out. Also, breathing reduces the intensity of emotion making it much more bearable. Sometimes, difficult emotions even have a "feel good" quality. I do also do a 45 minute brisk walk to get my endorphins flowing. With a daily practice I tend to be much happier even when I'm not doing anything in particular. I used to run, which was even better, but after so many injuries I decided to take things down a notch. Walking is at least sustainable. User Quote Bookmark peanutspathtotruth Member 410 posts Posted 15 minutes ago · @AwakenedSoul444 Next to of course going to the root of it, there is nothing more relieving I found than Yoga Nidra. It's complete, absolute relaxation of your body. You might not have done that for years. Even in sleep you are not as relaxed as in Yoga Nidra. I highly recommend "Tripura Mandala" on YouTube. Lovely man. Take the beginner Yoga Nidra session and work up from there. 1 hour in complete relaxation = you feel like a newborn. User Quote Bookmark Anton Rogachevski Member 788 posts Posted 2 minutes ago · Acceptance of suffering. Not wanting to not want it. The desire to stop suffering is in fact the source of suffering. User Quote Bookmark https://antonsjournal.home.blog "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool." William Shakespeare Reply to this topic... Follow4 Actualized.org Terms Privacy

Hello. I'll start by saying this: DEATH IS A REAL THING WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. Why am I saying this? I'm saying this because life is temporary. I'm not denying that after death remains nothing or darkness or a state of dreamless sleep or (a) void or even emptiness. After death, there might be something like consciousness. I don't deny it. Death means the dissolving of your body, your character or the disappearance of life as you know it. A lot of people don't like the concept of death because they resent the fact that life is temporary. Even in my case, I don't like the fact that life is temporary. Let me tell you why. The reality we live in is extraordinary. Life comes with an amazing structure. Noting is more beautiful than life. Not even the consciousness itself. Not even the entire universe. Because consciousness and the Univers itself are impersonal. Consciousness is not comparable to the human mind; the human mind is something unique; it's something much more beautiful than anything else. Why do you think that there is a human mind? Why do you think that the human mind is as it is? Because the human mind has found its way out of everything else... and that's the beauty of it. Our minds are unique and foreign to consciousness. They are not from this realm. Let me state it a little bit different. Our minds are alien to anything that consciousness produces because the mind is not a product of consciousness. This is not a delusion or merely just thoughts. It is something that has to be discovered by yourself. The only thing foreign or alien to everything that exists in consciousness is the human mind. Nothing can be more beautiful than the human mind.

Personalization is part of the contraction. There is a trans-personal realm. If we were having a discussion about a bizarre insect only found in the Amazon forest, it would be impersonal. We would both be curious and desire to explore and learn. Neither of us is attached/identified to being the Amazonian insect. This would be a Tier2 trans-personal exploration. . . . Adding in personal attachment/identification alters the energetics. . . Perhaps one person says "I've actually been to the Amazon and saw this bizarre insect". An impersonal response might be "Oh my gosh! I've only seen it on YT videos. What was it like in person?"". Notice how this open-ness allows for exploration and learning. . . What happens when it gets personalized?. . . "This guy think he knows more than me. He thinks he is special because he has been in an Amazon forest. He thinks he is better than me. Well, I've also been in forests. He has no idea who I am and he is judging me. I'm going to show him I know more than him". Adding in these personality dynamics alters the energetics. It is no longer a free exploration of an amazing insect in the Amazon. It is now a personal debate, rather than an exploration.In terms of evolving/expanding/learning, it can be a block. For example, I am at an intermediate level of Spanish. If I have an attachment/identity of being fluent in Spanish, it is a block. For example, if another person who speaks Spanish tells me "I noticed you haven't been using the subjunctive tense very much, it might be something to look at". I could reply "I know the subjunctive tense. I've actually lived in central and south America. You don't even know me.". . This creates conflict. . . Without the personal dynamic, I may respond "I hadn't noticed that. Maybe I am missing something. Could you give an example how I might expand my use of the subjunctive? I studied Spanish in Peru, perhaps the use the subjunctive differently. . . Oh, you studied Spanish in Spain. Super coool! What was it like living there? I've also wanted to visit. Exploring different dialects of Spanish is so fascinating to me". . . Notice how this orientation is very different and allows space for growth and expansion.