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Beautiful post, agree on all of that. Enlightenment is both a state (Understanding/Realization and certain energetic nondual/mere groundless appearance state) but also a waking up/removing the clouds to the Reality/True Self/Enlightenment that is always here, that is Absolute Reality itself, and when called Buddha Nature the core of each sentient being, and knowing that to have always been the case. Like with many pointers to the Absolute, the pointers highlight only one side of the coin, like Advaita True Self/Absolute Consciousness (positive definition), and Buddhist Madhyamaka Emptiness (negative definition). And in Absolute Reality, these paradoxes collapse, since they all point to the same Reality/"thing/referent". Absolute Reality contains the pointers. Once realized, there is no paradox or contradiction left, it makes fully sense and couldn't be any different. It doesn't stay paradoxical. I also believe (but I can't proove it) there is a kind of "Endohuasca-System", that when one is (1) proficient enough with the separate self arisings (like knowing them, even the most subtle ones, like a separate self feeling/sensation/localization/concept/... ), and (2) is fast enough in spotting them/cutting them off (since they arise much much faster than normal thinking, like maybe 20-30 arisings of separate self sensations per second, while thinking "against" these arisings brings maybe maximum 1-3 thoughts elaborated per second, if at all). that explains why you can't "think" your way to shutting off the separate self, thinking is just too slow. It has to be automized, Nonmeditation Yoga-style of the Mahamudra-System. Spotting them when you know their nature as Emptiness/Consciousness/Suchness immedeately cuts them off, at least with some proficiency in the Skill of Reckognition of the Mahamudra-System (see Pointing Out the Great Way, Brown). funny thing is: When one tries to do that, the emerging of thoughts frequency gets much faster. Like a protection-mechanism of the Illusion/Maya. When I learned to finally be fast enough and got faster than this increased speed of thought-emergence, and didn't get distracted or "captured" anymore by the high-speed-emergence-flow of thoughts, the following happened: (1) and (2) trigger some kind of "Endohuasca-System" in the body, which removes the solidity of the visual field, makes it increasingly luminous/hologram/mere appearance/groundess floating in Infinite Nothingness, like Psychedelics do. And it also bring a lot of bliss. https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/ That was at least my experience: first major parts of the separate self Gestalt Structure/emerging thoughts go, then the visual field/world becomes nondual/luminous/mere appearance hovering in Infinite Nothingness and with that as a basis, more and more subtle separate self elements/clouds go and all of that in a funny merry-go-around (meditation experience/state -> Realization/Understanding -> Deeper meditation experience/Luminosity/... -> Deeper Realization/Understanding of more subtle separate self element, ....) , like a positive feedback-loop, slowly burning away the clouds. Which can sound maybe harsh or bad or unpleasant, but it is exactly the opposite. Somewhere along the path it was learned that these separate-self arisings are to a large part all the unpleasant stuff, suffering, dissatisfaction,... , and that evaporated as well. And while resting in a very mindful, empty state, when the mind-stream starts getting nondual (and even before that), I learned that I can produce my own good emotions/states, like directly getting the bliss from within. That disabled then slowly all the separate self arisings that didn't feel well. So actually a lovely process, best thing that has ever happened to me. In the beginning, its difficult, but at some point it becomes quite pleasant and continues by itself. Pushing the rock over the mountain-pass, and then it rolls downhill without effort. Please excuse the length of my musings. Selling Water by the River

Hi Trenton, deciding factor for me was a very efficient meditation system (Mahamudra), outlined in "Pointing Out the Great Way, Brown", and several other books. I have rudimentary to average knowledge of most meditation systems, and this one is unique. In my humble perspective, the highest developed system on the planet (most people praciticing and refining it in Tibet for the longest time of any system, at least to my knowledge). It details the steps and what happens like no other system I am aware of. If you try that, and add some psychedelics, at least in my perspective that is the best shot you have. And you can not know what your future path brings. Balance your life, and see what comes! Bon voyage! Water by the River

Yes. I thought for a long time that the Absolute is maybe somehow "behind" space, or being bigger than the Visual Field (that was already at least sometimes nondual at that point in time). Or that it encompasses the visual field. At some points, it dawns on oneself that all of these "probings", attempts, investigations.... are just more arisings happening within you. And the space is imagined IN YOU. If you try to looke for this line, drawing this line, imagining this line, you imagine it WITHIN the space you imagine. It all appears or is being imagined. You will never find the Absolute in any object, any arising, any location. Any self, any appearance, any anything. But this process of "emptying out" everything, to fully BECOME it, to see each an any arising (thought, appearance, understanding, whatever,n+1) as arising in YOU, you have to become fully empty. Nothingness. But yet, that process has to be walked earnestly to the final end, and can not be shortcut. Also because the Absolute is also infinite, IN-FINITE. Nothing you can measure, find, define. Nothing finite. No arising/appearance, however subtle. Even formless arisings (thoughts, formless subtle level lightshow, whatever), are not it. Because IT is timeless. Always there. Formless arisings also come and go. Nice book on that topic: Szyper, Infinite Consciousness. And then, when You are fully empty, you can be fully everyting, nondual. A more concise formulation, and much more beautiful than my ramblings above: “We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.” ― Kalu Rinpoche Perfect. If the thinking can solve all open existential questions, you can rest in the Suchness that you are. Nonmeditation-Yoga. You cut off all separate self arisings in real time (since you are proficient enough in that "cutting off" immediately when these "thought-capsules" arise out of consciousness. They havent even been elaborated out, that comes later. Funny thing is, at some point you notice they emerge with the full content of the thought already "in there", and that gets elaborated later and more slowly. The Skill of Reckognition in Daniel Browns "Pointing Out the Great Way". Getting that high-speed cut-off in place triggered for me the step from just cutting thoughts/separate self arisings, aka emptying the mindstream while the "external" world is still solid & out there, to the visual field getting nondual, centerless, luminous mere appearance. So that transforms the Visual Field slowly to mere groundless appearances. You feeling localized ends, the localization dissolves. My theory for that (but I have no proof), is that the Endohuasca-System of the body gets activiated. To cut off efficiently all "Great Doubts/Questions", as I termed them for myself, like the questions above on the nature of space/time/separate self, you need to understand the answer and "how it works". Or you push through with Koan-Meditation concentration-style. That also works, but I feel very sure that this would have taken me 5-10 times longer, and would have been much much (!) more unpleasant. How to "finish" time Mahamudra/Pointing Out the Great Way Style, and end up at the so called "Always Here Mind", the eternal or rather timeless Infinite Consciousness, thats another topic. If you are interested let me know. That is described for example in the Yoga of Unelaboration Chapter of Pointing Out the Great Way. Assumption/Theory: Meditation-induced and body-produced Endohuasca (DMT, 5-MeO, ....): What I assume is that a certain level of proficiency of cutting/transcending of the "harder/deeper" searate self arisings, and the "hard/deeper" existential questions (like space/time/....), or transcending and letting them just play out, but being aware of them as objects, being able to cut them anytime, see their arisings out of consciousness, their flow with in, and their disappearance, triggers probably some kind of Endohuasca-System, your body producing similiar chemicals (DMT,5-MeO, MAO-Inhibitors....) that you can also trip with when supplying them externally. To trigger that means staying in full mindfulness for a long time, having taken the meditation off the pillow and not getting distracted. The effects are very similiar to Psychedelics (nonduality, luminous mere appearance, groundlessness of all appearance, Infinity, timelessness, even shutting off the separate self/Ego (although not completely mostly. Some quite subtle feeling/filters/lenses of perceptions of Individuality (sth watching sth.) often remain): https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/ and that gives you the multiple hundreds/maybe thousands of hours that one needs in the "nondual timless infinite mere appearance visual field state" to get aware of every last subtle separate self arising. But that can be done in everyday life, at least while not being distracted too much. Of course, getting previews by psychedelics to confirm that there is something to be reached, to get to know the Nondual Infinite Field of mere appearance, maybe even visiting the causal Whiteout-Godhead of Infinite Potential: Awesome. But probably will not suffice in most cases to get one "on the other side". Then, finally, at the very end, the separate self is just a very very subtle feeling of individuality. Body, Location, Duality, time, all have gone a long time ago. Its just an Infinity of groundless mere appearance visual field showing up, limitless, already nondual(!) and luminous/mere appearing. And "a" nothing that is only aware of that. Like nearly nothing at all. Very very subtle and murky. Roger Thisdells No-Self, stage 4. And then you are ready for the Big Bang, that then can happen all by itself. Sudden Awakening. One can not force it. Crossing over happens by itself, resting long enough in that state, and letting it ripen. If one wants to do that only by tripping... well, I never read from or about one case where Full Enlightenment/Realization actually worked. But maybe there are cases. It takes too much time to get rid of the last subtle veils of the separate self, and by tripping you can also be distracted by the show/understanding/whatever. It always reads like some separate-self elements still well and alive and not transcended, no fully empty "No-Self" having looked totally in to the Abyss of Nothingness,but having had the hell of an infinite nondual mere appearance experience of a (for sure) very interesting visual field bubble or God or Alien or I don't know what. Plenty of stuff in the Multiverse to explore and understand, especially considering that it goes upwards the Holon-Pyramid forever (Planet-Monad creating/maintaining all perspectives on it, Galaxy-Monad, Universe-Monad, Multiverse-Monad, n+1). And plenty of stuff of the properties of God to project on the remains of the separate self... You are very welcome. I believe there are two elements installed in the universe, in order to not give Maya every advantage (she already has enough): 1.The radiating bliss/love of the Realized Being. 2. Any separate self teaching "down from up high" with any "superiority-raditation", marveling at its own ingeniuty/superiority is normally just keeping the illusion going, because: If you are all, how can you be superior to anything? Compassion and humility, and helping "others" look around the next corner of their own path, is indicated. Not sustaining the illusion with "I see the Matrix", and its "Saul Goodman". Sorry And luckily, that attitude isn't very sexy for the fellow seekers, see point 2. above. On the other side, how are realized Dzogchen-Realizers depicted in Tibetan Buddhism: Radiating great humor. Why? Nothing "other" holy anywhere.... at least nothing where making jokes is forbidden. But not a condencending/superiority humor that has fallen in love with itself. Because what is there that a "you" could be "superior" to? Superior to another aspect of Your Own Being? Easy way to cut reality in two or create duality, so a rather not so smart idea.... To tell the difference between these two kinds of humors, the hard-wirings of humans are usually quite well calibrated. Selling Water by the River

Mindset: Be a 2-year-old, like the gentleman below. And just look if its doable. And scare the adults And a Meditation Technique that allows you to carry the meditation as soon as possible (but not before) off the pillow, into daily life. For example "Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown". Starting with the Yoga of One Taste, it can be done off the pillow, while working and in daily life. Realistically, only when you can use large parts of your life for meditation you can bring enough "momentum" to get visual field to become nondual and mere groundless appearance. But that can be done living a normal life with a normal job. At least my experience. Starting Yoga of One Taste (for example in the book above, Page 382, " Bringing Forth Awakened Wisdom by Cognition- and Perception-Simultaneousness"), you can take the mental continuum INCLUDING thoughts as "meditation-object", and still don't loose Mindfulness. Its an advanced technique, and needs previous concentration meditation and practice on the pillow. But if you can do it, you can use large parts of your day. Maybe not highly distracting conversations in the beginning, but most of the rest. (One Taste in the Yoga of One Taste means Nonduality. The visual field gets nondual if you do that long enough. The One Taste of all arisings thoughts/perceptions/exerpiences/world bubble). Take that book as your bibel (if you are so inclined ), practice, read it 5-10 times, because you need practice-experience to understand the more advanced parts. For me, it worked nicely. And some Psychedelics to get previews of what its all about.... Bon voyage! Selling Water by the River

Hi Lilia, yes, there can be pain, but no psychological suffering stacked on top, and the pain itself much more removed with less focus, flowing through oneself like a distant wave. What I wanted to say in my post (suffering and mainting Realization sobre/without psychedelics) was that without full stable Realization of ones True Nature and being able to keep that stable in everyday life (Postsamadhi), the cycle of suffering of the separate self continues. Without Realization of ones True Nature, one can have wonderful trips of Awakening with psychedelics, or just normal blissful experiences. But it never lasts. The merry-go-round of being content/satisfied and then no longer content/satisfied (suffering in the Buddhist sense of Dukha means not literally suffering, but something mroe like unsatisfactoryness (everything being unsatisfactory in the end, which then also causes suffering) continues. It is (in my observation) a necessary building block of any Lila, because without it the separate self arising would at some point no longer find "projects", and just "fizzles" out at some point. And: When I became able to rest in my True Nature (cutting off and/or just watching the separate-self arisings (thoughts/feelings) "Trekchö-style" emerging also at high frequencies, the visual field became limitless/infinite/nondual/mere appearance/imagined style/empty/groundless), and most of the separate self arisings were seen flowing through the Reality that the Real I is, I got a flow of bliss/love flowing from and through that Source/Reality that was independend from outer circumstances. In the beginning I thought it was too good to be true, like am I fooling myself here. But it never stopped, and increased further, including the so called three special states of bliss, emptiness (groundlessness) and luminosity (shimmering mere appearance), which then also progressed further. At that time, the meditation was off-the-pillow (Postsamadhi-Meditation) since quite some time, so I got that in everyday life and not only while sitting. And from that basis of a fully nondual infinite field of empty groundless mere appearances with no center/separate anything, one can start wondering WHAT kind of empty nonlocal Awareness really watches that infinite empty field of mere appearance, and in What that really appears. And then the Big Bang can suddenly happen. But that comes normally a considerable time after the stabilization of the Nondual Field described above. Tashi Namgyal, quoted in Pointing out the Great Way, Brown: "In short, crossing over [to Enlightenment] happens at the time when every single sensory experience—appearance [visual field] and thought [any separates self or thought arising in general]—are viewed as clarity/emptiness [mere empty groundless imagined appearance] and movement/emptiness [thought/separate self arisings moving in You/Reality] with absolute certainty [meaning it is no a decission of any kind, but a self-evident observation and an understanding of Absolute certainty, an Understanding of Ultimate Reality (infinite consciousness) understanding Itself]." Or in other words: When you get it that anything there can ever be is just a imagined show happening in the True You, and the True You is so totally empty/Nothingness that it is when no appearance appears unware of itself, but with the potential for sentience if something is imagined. Or: Totally empty, Nothingness, so that IT can manifest anything and is not limited in any way, which it would be if IT/You were anything specific at all. This is a point where many teachings become imprecise, or just end there (at a not so empty Nonduality), because the author didn't progress over that Nonduality-Stage with a still lingering pretty empty awareness/witness. Whenever you here "I am this Nonduality", a questionmark is indicated. For that, see also this video (Prior to Nonduality): Concerning what you describe about pain: Yes. If there is Physical pain, it is still there, but no psychological restisting/suffering arises because of it (which is like 80% of the perceived suffering). On top, as you describe, the physical pain flows through the Reality that you are, like the wind. Much more remote, like there is pain moving in me, but I am not that pain. It doesn't "grip" anymore. Bon voyage Water by the River

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, The Supreme Source: "I am the teacher, pure and total consciousness, whence everything manifests. Pure and total consciousness is the supreme source, it has created the Buddhas of the three times, from it have arisen the beings of the three worlds and the whole animate and inanimate universe. [... ] Pure and total consciousness has created everything and has not created anything. It has created everything because it has created its own nature, pure and total. It has not created anything because within it there exists no need to create. When my nature is not understood and the phenomena that manifest from me become the object of judgement, desire and attachment give rise to the creation of concrete vision that is impermanent and destined to vanish like a magical apparition, and one becomes like a blind man who does not know what is happening. [...I" "As I transcend all affirmations and negations, I am beyond all phenomena. As no object exists that is not myself, I am beyond meditating on a view. As there is nothing to keep apart from myself, I am beyond a commitment to observe. As there is nothing to seek other than myself, I am beyond obtaining the capacity for spiritual action. As no place exists outside myself, I am beyond a level of realization to surpass. As I have never encountered obstacles, I am beyond [everything] as self-arising wisdom. As I am the ultimate unborn nature, I am beyond [everything] as the [true] subtle ultimate nature" "I am called "the perfect condition" becauseeverything is contained in me. I am called "the source" because the teacher, teaching, and disciples arise from my three natures" "I am the essence of all phenomena; nothing exists that is not my essence. The teachers of the three dimensions are my essence. The Buddhas of the three times are my essence. The Bodhisattvas are my essence. The four types of yogins are my essence. The three worlds, of desire, of form, and without form, too, are my manifestation. The five great elements are my essence. The six classes of beings are my essence. Everything inanimate is my essence. Everything that lives is my essence. All the habitats and the beings living therein are my essence. Nothing exists that is not my essence because I am the universal root: there is nothing that is not contained in me. The unborn, the wonder of birth, and the manifestation of energy are the three aspects of the three teachers: this is their condition." "As the three times, past, present, and future, abide exclusively in me, all the Buddhas are in the same condition: this too is my essence. As I transcend the dualism of subject and object, like space I am allpervading, and I constitute the fundamental substance of all phenomena: my essence is pure and total consciousness. I, that am the source, abide in the single state, and in this same authentic condition the practitioners of the "four yogas" "Realize my nature, the supreme source that is pure and total consciousness. Teach that all the phenomena of existence are only myself! If you transmit my teaching, all your disciples will realize my nature and will become this very nature. "If my nature were to be compassionately displayed to the beings of the three worlds who have originated from me,.... Thus I, the supreme source, disclose my nature, displaying it to myself." "Nothing other than this exists; none of the Buddhas have ever received a higher teaching than this from me, the source. Aside from this condition of equality beyond concepts, I myself, the supreme source whence everything arises, have absolutely nothing whatever to display to myself." "Listen! As all of you are created by me, you beings of the three worlds are my children, equal to me, the supreme source. You are me, inseparable from me, so I manifest to you and through the five teachers of my natures I teach the single state of the five essences [of the elements]. I am the single state, I, the supreme source: you too are, you must become certain of this!" "Listen, Sattvavajra! I will show you your own nature. You are me, the source. I am and have always been pure and total consciousness. What is pure and total consciousness?" "Among all things existing in the animate and inanimate universe, there is not one single thing that has not been created by me, nor is there a cause that does not derive from me. Thus I am the essence of all, and nothing surpasses me. I am superior to the three dimensions, to the Buddhas of the three times, to the Vidyadharas, to the Bodhisattvas, to the beings of the three worlds, to the whole animate and inanimate universe, because I am the maker of all. Before there was any other teaching I, that am the source, pure and total consciousness, disclosed the teaching of pure and total consciousness." But I don't know if that comment still holds: You are asking "God-realization the way Leo teaches it". Since I have a hard time following what the latest definition of the God-Realization-Awakening of Leo is, I am not the authority on what fits his current definition of God Realization. There seems to be sometimes an update on the Awakening to the the Timeless Unborn (Capital Letters). -stolen from @GLORY- : "No they can be awake Or maybe even Awake But they are not AWAKE™" I personally can't agree to claims to why there is no Final Awakening or Enlightenment in which everything (including all appearances and thought/understanding-arisings) appears/is imagined in You, the small separate you is fully seen through, including seeing ANY feeling of any kind of Subjectivity/Individuality watching any kind of Infinity arising in you as more illusion. Just One Infinite (potentially sentient) Reality/You in which everything (n+1) appears/is being imagined/Mirage/Show, and Tat Tvam Asi. And of course that includes imagining/manfesting all (just appearing/imagined) stories of Buddhism, (any spiritual system), your history, your past, your parents, n+1 (which means WHATEVER/Anything possible, or n+1). EVERYTHING is imagined as a big Illusion Show in the Real You (Capital Letters in case when talking about Absolute Reality). Or in other words: The ultimate Mindf*** (pardon my French). Or the ultimate joke. How could it be any different? Of course you can always have more Understandings/Insight on the appearing/relative arisings "stuff/realities/dimensions/Lilas". And since "It" is infinite, you can go on understanding these forever and ever and ever ... infinitely. As long as you have fun doing that, and don't suffer: Perfect. But I wonder how one does the "not suffering" part when one is sobre and then not stably resting in the above described Realization. [Warning: Karma still holds. "Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour." Padmasambhava. So as long as a separate self thinks it can do what it wants since all is just imagined, the only outcome with mathematical precision can only be: suffering. With best regards from Maya, trying to guide you back home]. I have not seen one description from Leo of God Realization that is not covered by Full(!) Enlightenment into Reality/Your True Nature, fully understanding of what Reality is or what You are (please don't beat me ). That includes understanding that all and any manifestation arising in You/Reality is an empty, groundless, imagined(!) arising in you. Of course including the whole you, its history, n+1, EVERYTHING. And like I wrote above, if that is not the most tricky, twisted Illusion/Mindf***, I don't know what is. But the Magnificence and splendor of it ..... Maybe Leo can comment on that? What is the special thing about your definition of God Realization? I am honestly just respectfully asking, and it would be nice if the answer would a) be polite (not that my imagined self-worth suffers) and b) something with content, and not Glorys statement above in different wording + broomstick. Thanks a lot, and Namaste . And for getting "there", among other books: "Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown". And Psychedelics as a preview and along the path of course... respectfully yours Selling Water by the River

Try an efficient meditation system, like for example "Pointing Out the Great Way" by Daniel Brown. Get your meditation going first on the pillow, Learn to spot any thought/concept arising directly when it emerges from consciousness/emptiness, see it move in that, and dissolve back into that. Then get the meditation "automized" Nonmeditation-Yoga-Style without any effort or artificial activity, the meditation doing itself (advanced stage). That gets the separate-self-arisings "doing" the meditation out of the way (they are just more thought-arising). Then move it into every-day life (Postsamadhi-Meditation). Then, your visual field will start becoming nondual and empty, like a hologram. Bliss without any cause starts to flow, the normal feeling good- feeling bad cycles of the separate self stop. Then, remove all remaining subtle filters/lenses/centers of the separate self arisings, learn to see/spot them fast enough and not "see through them"/"not looking out from them", until only the Nondual Infinite Awareness Space remains, and all perceptions appearing as mere imagined appearances, empty, lucent and hologram-like, moving in "It", perceptions perceiving themselves. And then check "WHO" is aware of that Infinite Nondual Field of mere appearance, with thoughts and world-objects moving and appearing in it like the wind, moving through You.Then, at one point, suddenly even the last feeling of an empty nonlocal witness perceiving a kind of Infinity/Totality will drop, totally becoming one with field. One without a second. Maybe even the One Hand will give you a clap then. The One without a second, initially unaware of itself when no arisings move (Nirvikalpa, Cessation, Deep Sleep,...), but with the potential for sentience. Always eternally right here now. And then, maybe consider the Empty Mirror Job Opening. Selling Water by the River PS: @GLORY "No they can be awake Or maybe even Awake But they are not AWAKE™" May I borrow that somtimes from you? I just love it PS: And whatever precisely the latest definitions of God Realization/awakening/alien awakening/.... are for Leo these days, the writer of these lines probably respectfully disqualifies for that.

Learn cutting off (or seeing them for what they are, as objects moving in you) your separate self arisings (thoughts and feelings) in your mindstream. They will get/arise faster and faster, and you can see them emerging out of consciousness as consciousness, and being elaborated in language afterwards. I had to read "Pointing out the Great Way," by Daniel Brown (chapters Skill of Reckognition and Yoga of Unelaboration) ten times plus to get it, and try a lot in implementing it. Pointing out the Great Way is a synthesis and summary of the Mahadmudra-System of Tibetan Buddhism. If you learn to cut off these mental arisings, at first they get faster and faster (Skill of Reckognition). That is some kind of protection mechanism of the separate self/Ignorance/Maya. Look into their nature, they arise out of empty and aware consciousness, they are not separate from consciousness, and they return to consciousness. But the tricks of the separate self mindstream arisings are limited, at some point you know all these separate self arisings (thoughts and feelings). The first shift comes when you can cut them all off and stay in the Awareness that you are (Skill of Reckognition). From that point onwards, bliss develops just from doing that. And later, it starts getting vast spaciousness and nondual. And you realize the Always-Here-Mind (Yoga of Unelaboration). That You/Mind/Reality doesn't come and go on time, but is always here, eternal and fundamental. And then you develop full Nonduality of the Visual Field as mere infinite appearance (Yoga of One Taste), and from there on fully "empty out" the separate self in Nonmeditation Yoga (Awakened Awareness being Reality itself). Up until this first shift (Skill of Reckognition, see above), meditation can be pleasant or unpleasant. After this shift, you generate your own happiness, on the pillow and off the pillow. In Mahamudra its called the three special states of bliss, clarity and nonconceptual stillness. And try some Psychedelics as preview for Nonduality/infinite Visual Field of mere appearance, and to empty out/transcend the separate self. Just don't expect that you have enough time in these states to empty or transcend that last remnants of the separate self (very subtle feelings of individuality/separtness watching some kind of infinity) fully. If it all gets transcend permanently, great and Namaste! But if you can't sustain that state sobre, maybe some separate self arisings still happen to cloud over the infinite mere appearance awareness-space that You are. All the best ( : Selling Water by the River

>I feel like it’s become a living reality in some ways but there is also conditioning that is pulling me back and how I experience things now in relation to that conditioning I’ve definitely felt and still feel to some extent that I’ve completely lost my mind and gone insane because it’s so far out compared to what I thought reality was 3-4 years ago. Be good to your separate self. It is not that you are not that, but you are not ONLY that. You contain it. If you say "You are not it", on one hand it is true, on the other hand you contain it. You give rise to it, it arises in you. So in the end, you are not ONLY it (credits concerning the "you are not not only that" to Colette Davie). In Ken Wilbers language: Differentiation and Integration vs. Disassociation and .... problems. Your separate self will operate better, more efficient, more loving and way smarter when you no longer have ignorance, or believe to be ONLY that separate self. In the words of Daniel Brown: The small you/separate self gets out of the way, Awakened Awareness (Mahamudra/Dzogchen-term for Infinite Consciousness/Reality) takes over and does all tasks and daily life at hand much more smarter than the separate small self/you could. And since the intelligence from the separate self is just borrowed from the infinite Intelligence of Reality, you just remove a filter limiting the flow of intelligence and intuition. The "I am not only the separate self",or "the separate self arises in me, and its just a bundle/a Gestalt of moving I feelings/thoughts, with no real existence beyond its structure/Gestalt/structure-Gestalt=probability-arising-distribution of thoughts/feelings" is in my opinion the more sophisticated version of Neti Neti. The separate self Gestalt/structure arisings "borrows" its appearance of being real/consciousness from Infinite Consciousness, like the planets are only shining from the light of the sun. It doesnt really exist/shine on its own (see the Video of Francis Lucille below). What is conscious is not the separate self, but infinite consciousness. And the separate self believing itself to be true is just being that misunderstanding arising/moving in that which is really conscious. You look out from your body like you look out from your car, but you are not your car. And with the separate self thoughts/feelings moving in you, its a bit more tricky, but a similiar confusion/mistaking what consciousness really is.... The only thing that fully drops from the separate self is the belief-concept (feeling and thought arisings) that you are only this body-mind or flow of identity-arisings. The rest of the separate self (or small you instead of You) can and should remain fully functional in You (Reality itself), that is the healthy version of the process. But if it all happens too fast (which can lead to a more "interesting" and unhealthy version of the process, with too little integration, see what happened to Ramana in the beginning. So huge is the bliss of realizing and dwelling in what You really are....). And until you experience the stabilized and integrated form, it can be an interesting ride... Have some humor on the path, a good map, and bon voyage! Luckily, it all happens in that which You really are, and you never can loose that. >I do admit that I’m to a certain extent trying to figure it out by thinking and reason but I’ve also experiences some unreasonable things in my trips so I know it has limits. I have had some breakthroughs but it’s not all clear so I’m weary of thinking ”I got it” and I can still feel there is this sense of wanting to ”grasp”. But I hope this can open me up more and help me go beyond that. To really get it, you need a change of state, an Awakening, as you write. For example via Psychedelics, and/or a good meditation system, like "Pointing out the Great Way, Brown". Or ideally, both. Then from these Awakenings come hopefully good/correct understandings/realizations. Correct understandings = understandings that facilitate and don't block further understandings/realization and Awakening-States. It is a merry-go-round of Awakening -> Realization/Understanding -> Awakening a level higher-> Realization/Understanding a level higher -> ... . Until you conform fully to the Enlightened Mind: And when your level of Awakening, boosted and stabilized by a foundation of correct or non-ignorant Understanding/Realization reaches a certain level, then Crossing Over to fully Realizing your True Nature can happen (necessary is normally a certain time of seeing the whole Visual Field/Awareness Bubble as mere infinite appearance arising, and seeing ALL thought/feeling-arisings moving as empty appearances in you). Especially the last point takes some time... A nice description is in Pointing Out the Great Way, Chapters on Crossing Over and Basis Enlightenment (Basis= Awakening to the Absolute Nature of Reality, in Zen "Great Enlightenment"). So you have to conform in Awakening State AND Understanding/Realization to the Real Nature of Things/Reality/Enlightened Mind, and then Crossing Over can happen all by itself. Infinite Consciousness/Reality realizing Itself what it is, Reality realizing Reality itself, since Reality is Infinite Consciousness. IT understands itself. And then one normally wonders why you haven't seen the forest for the trees earlier.... But hey, what a ride! But you can't force Crossing Over, that would be yet more of so called "artificial actitivites" of the separte-self-Gestalt, creating more Illusion while trying to force it. And that is why it is so difficult, and I am a bit less than totally happy with most of the maps we have so far about this process. Some traditions like Zen even made what some would call a fetish (sorry) out of throwing the maps away, like throwing away the Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra-Map [Wikipedia: the most important doctrines of the Laṅkāvatāra are the primacy of consciousness (Skt. vijñānavada), the teaching that consciousness as the only reality and that "all the objects of the world, and the names and forms of experience, are manifestations of the mind" as well as the "identification of the Buddha-nature (in the state of tathāgatagarbha) with alayavijñāna"]. More on that, see Wilber Integral Buddhism, chapter on Zen. Throwing maps away is true on some limited level, like getting out of only conceptual thinking into non-conceptual Awareness itself. But still... Look at the success-rate of enlightened ones, or rather the non-success-rate... Yet, I must admit I still love Zen, like whats more precise than your face before your parents were born? Or the Sound of the One Hand? Best map I have found so far is Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. That, maybe boosted by Psychedelics to get some introduction to the Nondual-States faster... And for Buddhism & Psychedelics, see: Psychedelic Buddhism: A User's Guide to Traditions, Symbols, and Ceremonies, Crowley, and Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Crowley. Not that Buddhism would ever do something like that.... ( : Francis Lucille on: Planets (separate self) shining in the light of the sun (Infinite Consciousness/Reality). They don't shine by themselves. Selling Water by the River ( :

I agree to all that Leo has written above. Some musings from over here: Free will vs. Determinism: The Real You (Infinite Consciousness/Reality) has absolute freedom. The separate self illusion arising in you just feels like being you, but is not you, never was you, never will be you. Never could. You contain these arisings of the separte self in the real You. So it doesn't really exist, and since it doesn't exist, it has no freedom. But the Real You has absolute freedom. Nothing is or could be outside of it to limit its power. You project this freedom that you so strongly intuit on the separate self. So it is an illusion/ignorance. But the core of that feeling of freedom of choice it true, it is the Real You. But: That reasoning will not be clear before some Awakenings into what you are, and then it can help you passing and ripening that understanding, and stabilizing you in resting what You are. Then & there it is beneficial. Before that, it is just impossible to fully get it. Structure of your World-Bubble-Perspective/Visual Field: Since any form of boundary between perspectives would be an imagined arising, it is illusory, an appearance. Your current consciousness is limited, you forget all other perspectives in real time. But you add/imagine separate self arisings (feelings and thoughts), which are the illusion/ignorance. With more consciousness, you can have a Vision like Leavitt (see book cover with infinite perspectives). To get Enlightenment or Omniscience into the structure of Reality, you don't need to see all perspectives, but to fully understand the nature/structure/essence of your perspective, which you then realize has necessarily to hold for all other perspectives/beings. And for all dimensions, since there are only perspectives in Indras Net. N+1 -style. Even a Molecule is some kind of proto-perspective, the interiortity of a Holon in Ken Wilbers theory for example. Although a very rudimentary one. Here some ideas/Koans how to investigate your perspective, and which kind of [Awakenings/Enlightenments] you need: all appearances are imagined arisings in you, any boundary to any other perspective would just be imagined/arising (so not real, just appearing): What is necessary for that Awakening: A state of sufficient Nonduality , appearances appearing as just appearances (hovering in you, hologram-like/translucent). Not the normal everyday state, so either lot of meditation done correctly or Psychedelics are necessary. Psychedelics are very useful to get a preview on that, it takes a while to get there via meditation. the True You as the fully empty Nothingness which is "structurally infinite": Awakening in to the Nothingness or empty cogniziant nature of your core. "Structurally infinite", since any boundary limiting it would just be an imagined appearance, NOT really limiting it, but appearing within it. Something outside that imagined boundary can always also appear/be imagined. And since it is infinite, has no boundary (that would just be an arising in itself), it can't go anywhere, can't die: Awakening into eternity or "always necessary here-ness, can't go anywhere else-ness, can not not be there-ness". Also wasn't created (that would be another arising). It has nothing outside of itself (would be another appearance/arising) which could have created or caused it. That is a mindf*** (sorry) of the highest degree once you stumble over it. No daddy, but You get used to it. ( : It can imagine whatever it wants (omnipotent). Then we have timeless/eternal, nonlocal/"everywhere"/every possible being and reality, literally the only "One" or Reality itself, nothing can be outside of It (omnipresent), and omnipotent (since its the only Reality, no other Reality is stopping It from whatever it wants). So we have eternal, infinite, omnipotent/all powerful. And in some persepctives/beings, it even knows its structural fundamental nature: omniscient of its fundamental structure/being. And that is where sometimes the God-word (eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite, omniscient) comes in.... But please, don't use any of these insights for separate-self-identity/arisings. That only makes trouble and, you know, bad Karma. Because it is just not true. All of that holds for the True Nature of You, not some not-really-existing (EX-isting = standing out from reality) separate self. But it is not standing out from Reality, it is moving in it, as it, the temporary arising separate-self illusion moving within you and temporary capturing the show for itself. after all of that, you can Awaken to the nature/structure of Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, ... However you want to call it. The last step is: (oh yes, after all of the above when having been stabilized in it for some time (days, months, years), the last big shift comes. And you won't overlook that one, because all of the above is gradual. This one is quantum). You won't overlook this one, you don't need to contemplate it, don't need to "make a decission" on it or on what you hold as true. It is totally fundamentally self-evident. It IS YOU. With that, you can look the devil in the eye and not blink. You will have the peace and bliss of your True Nature, that is "maintenance-free", since it IS You. It is variously called Great Enlightenment (Zen), Basis Enlightenment (Mahamdura Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), Great Liberation, ... Who or what is aware of all of that described above? Of the nondual infinite God-Mind Bubble Universe of manifested Infinite Consciousness floating in Infinity, as Infinity. What is the Reality/Awareness of Yours, that is inseparable of this Reality? What is the Awareness/"Subject" in perceptions perceiving themselves, without ever possibly having any location/center? What is the Reality/Awareness that can be originally "unaware" when no appearances arise in You (for example, in unware "normal" Deep Sleep), but has the potential of sentience as soon as an appearance is manifested? Who is hearing these words right now? What is this Absolute Subject, the Absolute Nothingness, that is so empty as Subject itself that the Absolute Abyss, that even God can't see anything in It? That you can only "experience", or that becomes available when "looking back" from "one level lower" and intuit/understand it as absolute Abyss of the Absolute Subject that you are? That then can be intuited/realized as total Abyss/Nothingness. That can never be any form or arising, because "the eye can't see" itself style? The Unmanifested Consciousness Reality that can be unaware of itself if no appearance is imagined, and yet that manifests as any possible world appearance in itself as itself, totally nondual, as the One Infinite Reality? What is beyond Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, beyond all of that, but at the same time expressing itself through that? What remains if all of that, the Universe-Appearance, is switched off and ends, and before a new creation arises (for example in Deep unaware Sleep, or immediately after death before the show goes on)? What is the unmanifested "side" of Consciousness/Reality/Nothingness, but which is not different at all from the appearances arising within it, as it? That which can not not be there? That which has been called Para-Brahman, Godhead, the Absolute, Absolute Awareness, Infinite Awareness. The Fundamental Real You. That neither exists as appearance, nor does not exist because something still appears? The Water of the River that every Being is at its core. Or much much more precise, after all my clumsy descriptions above have failed: The Clap of the One Hand, or your face before your parents were born. And since You are already It, "I" am just.... ... Selling Water by the River ( : Somebody made a Video Channel on the last step: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g Bassui on the never stopping short with small Enlighenments: "I have seen that the foundation of the universe is Voidness; still what is this something within me which can see and hear?” he desperately asked himself anew. In spite of every effort, he could not rid himself of this obsessive doubt." [Emptiness and Nondual stage, separate self still intact, on a very rudamentary level, just a void separate self watching Infinity. "The lesser masters from whom Bassui had sought guidance had all sanctioned his enlightenment [see above, Awakenings], but Koho, sensing Bassui’s keen, sensitive mind and the strength and purity of his yearning for truth, did not give him his stamp of approval but merely invited him to remain" "At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness [remnants of Empty Witness] will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty [no location, unilocal, perception perceiving themselves]. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning [having become fully empty, even of identity with manifested Consciouss, "God-Mind"] will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present." "With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky [Emptiness, Nonduality]. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being [having become totally empty] will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream." from Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen PS: I didn't create that Video. But it is beautiful.

Your perspective on that is already quite good. I would suggest to add these three perspectives: 1: -> The infinite perspectives in the Non-Euclidian-Space as approximation 2: When allowing for forgetting in time, then also allowing for forgetting other perspectives right now, or in "space". 3: The Awakening to the Absolutely Empty Subject that you (and all beings) really are. Any boundary can only be imagined within that. That is why you have to be fully empty to understand Absolute Reality. Then: When you are fully empty and nondual, perceptions perceiving themselves, at some point you will directly have the realization and understanding that the same Consiousness that you are is in the "other", having arisings of the separate self-feelings and -thoughts, being believed and not seen through, just in the same way it was with you for a long time. Then, these dry perspectives explained above become a lived and felt reality. You can not "think" or reason your way to these Awakenings. But with a perspective that is actually close to how things really work, it calmes your questions (mental arisings in your mindstream, which also include separate self-feelings and separte self-thoughts) on this, and make you rest in the Suchness, resting in the infinite Abyss of Empty Nothingness that you are. And then you are open for these Awakenings. You can't force them (that would be generating separate-self arisings, or artifical activity as Daniel Brown calls it in "Pointing out the Great Way"), but you can make your mindstream open and compatible/available for them (Evaluating these Koan on Psychedelics for sure also helps). More on that in the chapter on Non-Meditation Yoga in this book. All waves on the river are the river, watching the river, and are not separate from the river. There is only be the river. All form that can arise have to arise in Reality/Consciousness, including all imaginary boundaries. If you fully understand the structure of your perspective in this life, you can generalize this understanding for all possible perspectives. Since any boundary or border between any perspective can only be form in consciousness. How can you define any outside or inside if any boundary marking this boundary would be an arising in Absolute Consciousness? How can there be any time in it, besides and imagined arisings moving in it, imagining all past and future? What has to be there before every beginning and ending? What are you? Can you ever get truly "outside" of Yourself? And you can not say anything "positive" about this reality that you are, the Absolute Subject, since that would be a form, and arising, arising in it/You. You can only say what it is not. Neti Neti. "It" is Reality itself, unlimited, infinite. And it has the potential for sentience, perceptions perceiving themselves, as soon as forms arise. But this sentience is also empty, it can not be pointed to as arising or form of any kind. And yet, all of the infinite dimensions and forms arise in It/True You. You can describe the infinity of all arisings/forms of infinite dimensions/multiverses. But that which is truly infinite, what Absolute Reality/True You are, has to be realized and awakened to. That is why smarter people than myself mainly used Koans like the Clap of the one Hand, or An ancient pond/ a frog jumps in/ the sound of water. But the perspectives explained above were helpful for me to relax my philosophical mind with helpful perspectives that were close to how things really work. To be available for the real Awakening. Selling Water by the River

That is not my experience. At some point you take the practice off the pillow into daily life. There are techniques for doing that (for example the Mahamudra-practices described in Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown). Then, it would simply be rather unpleasant to not continue doing it. And the energetic shifts towards emptiness and nonduality continue and increase. I can imagine that falling back happens happens with something like only sitting-meditation concentration style or Koan-style (Zen, or Theravada-style). But I don't know, that is not the system I used mainly. At least according to my experience, it doesn't happen with something like the Yoga of One Taste of Mahamdura or the Yoga of Unelaboration/Skill of Recognition (Pointing out the Great Way, Brown). I don't see how that could not stick. And I don't think Genetics is the main part. I didn't have any great genetics, it took me around 15 years+, but only because I didn't get the efficient techniques at the beginning. If I would have been coached in the right way, it would have been a lot faster. Looking back, using the right techniques is so much key. If you don't, you can bang your head against the wall (or rather stare at it) for a looong time until something happens. You will not get somebody who failed at most stuff at life and without discipline there. But using the right meditation-techniques and diligence, and as soon as possible roll that out in daily life, then you will be doing fine. General understanding of the technique, diligence, and finding soon a way to make it pleasant. I believe that is key, at least it was for me. If you look for example at Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown, you have around 300-400 pages on these techniques. It is a very clear defined step-path, with many sub-techniques for each stage. The Tibetans have been doing that 1000 years, and it is in my opinion its the most sophisticated system on the planet. The Zen techniques (Koan and just sitting) look rather.... well, rudimentary compared to that. At least in my perspective. And the Theravada-techniques are not at that level of sophistication. Also just my perspective. If the meditation doesn't get pleasant after a certain time, in my opinion one is either not using the best techniques available, or is doing something wrong. Concerning the marvelous spiritual genetics topic: Here we are, in a forum in large parts based on Self-Help and quite a part of Self-Help on male-female dynamics, and there it is forbidden to blame looks, but with meditation we blame genetics. Without really knowing and having no statistics, Just because our meditation technique feels bad or boring (maybe the wrong technique, maybe there is some better stuff available?). I didn't have any special genetics for meditation, meditation was hard and not pleasant at the beginning, that is why I didn't do too much at the start. Then I stumbled (or rather read about all the different systems) over the right technique, and to this day I marvel on how infinitely much better that made my life. Today, Selling water by the River, Self Help Mindset Flavor! ( : sorry, just kidding. But I really mean all of the above. Never limit the belief in what you can achieve. Of course, don't be unkind to yourself and overload you, but never stop believing! Here the 2-Year-Old with nearly most of his skin burned who went flying Air Force Jets, including the fastest of them: How do you think that 2-year-old would have gone for meditation? Get blocked my limiting beliefs?

Selling Water by the River, todays water batch: Difference between Awakening and Enlightenment: Enlightenment: You had to cut/transcend every subtle separate sense feelings/thought (very subtle ones, very hard to spot). Then you are fully empty, which is your True Condition. Then, all separate self arisings arise in you, and move in you, but you are not only them. They move in you like the wind. The wind is also you, but you are not only the wind. They are fully transcended. Why is that necessary to fully understand Absolute Reality, or what You are? What you are can be fully empty. Like, nothing at all. Total Nothingness. When no arising is there, Absolute Reality/You is unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience if something appears (for example, check Hawal and Massaro books). You are still there when all arisings disappear (Nirvikalpha, Deep Sleep, your face before your parents were born). And if you want to understand what You are while forms still arising (like, in normal life), there can not be a subtle separate self/anything cutting the one infinite Unity of the Real You/Reality into a felt subject (Awareness) watching Infinity, even if it feels nondual or infinite. It has to become perceptions perceiving themself, no separate self anywhere to be found. You can not have separate Awareness separated from the field. The infinite field watches itself, literally does. And your body-mind moves in the Totality that you are. The thoughts and feelings of the former separate you are moving in in the True You like the wind. The bliss/love you generate in that state without needing anything external gives you autonomy from chasing externally generated bliss via experiences. It gives you total absolute freedom and love (Bassui below: You will be entirely free) If you understand that for your perspective, you understand that this holds for the structure of all perspectives/beings, for the whole Absolute Reality. Why? Because all perspectives are only form arising in the Absolute, any boundary from one perspective/being to another is either forgetting or form arising in Awareness, seeing itself. The advantage if do that sobre: You need a high developed state of nonduality/nonlocality/centerlessness/mere appearance of the visual bubble. You get that via meditation done correctly. Which doesn't need to be unpleasant or hard (although it normally takes quite a while), at least if done correctly, see for example Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. If you feel centered in your head, and the outside world appears as solid, you can not understand the Nature of Reality, impossible. So this state is necessary for Enlightenment. But not sufficient. From that stage (Yoga of One Taste) for example, you can continue to dissolve the last remnants of the separate self (for example, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then you can have Insight into what you are. You will not miss that, its definitive. Also, and most important, you got a built in safety check/quality control: You will not cross over to full Enlightenment without fully transcending any and all separate self arising coming up (and the visual field being Nonduality, centerless and infinite). You can't fool yourself here. And you will understand when you are there. Why it is absolute. Awakening: The energetic state of Nonduality/Unity/Infinity with some remnants of separate self still not fully transcended, you can also get by Psychedelics. Which of course is useful in order to have an idea of the goal, a feedback loop to build this nonduality-state via meditation, on and off the pillow. But here, you get the nonduality/mere appearance with subtle remnants of the separate self still intact. You don't have the build in quality/safety mechanism of classic Full Enlightenment. So it is very easy to confuse these experiences for the final Realization of what you are. Everyone having experienced it claims this on the difference between Awakening and Enlightenment, see for example Frank Yang/Ralston/Wilber/Jac O'Keffee/Steven Wolinsky/... (anticipating certain feedback: "they are not awake, but enlightened". Well, with the definitions above I could agree). Enlightenment is in a different ballpark. And you can't imagine it without it fully happening. So it is not some mild form of "God-Realization", or Nothing. It is something of a different category. It is, to quote Ralston, fully understanding what You are and what Reality is. Without any separate self filters, however subtle, still active. So what happens if you value Psychedelic Awakenings or Understandings higher than fully being and realizing what you are? You guessed it: Reality doesn't let you off the hook, you still have psychological suffering. The separate self arisings cut you off from the full flow of love of your True Being for itself. So you need experiences to get this love flowing. For example the love you feel when understanding-experiences of the exquisite beauty of the design of Reality/Dimensions happen. Is anything with exploring Alien-Godminds wrong? For sure not, this understanding is probably among the most beautiful experiences you can have. I just feel it becomes problematic if you value getting the love the unenlightened separate self needs from these experiences, and valueing these understandings of Alien-Godminds higher than classic Enlighenment and fully understanding your True Nature, and resting in it. Why not pursue and value BOTH endevours on an at least equal basis? Not downplaying Enlightenment as somehow not on the same level or lower than any other insight into the appearance or form side of Reality (which is infinite). If what is stated above is correct, with one path one is lead to salvation (Enlightenment), and with the other path (Understanding/Awakenings), well.... best regards from Maya, but you get a medal from her with distinction for playing her game on the highest level possible. For the readers: You will probably not achieve higher level of bliss and love than your teacher using his teachings. And how these levels will develop: Well, we are in the prime seats here to see how it will continue. I don' think I have a high chance of convincing Leo. So that means that the job of convincing to develop via suffering (or hopefully only not being as happy and loving than one could be) stays where it always has been, and ever will be: Maya, CEO of Samsara. All the best, enjoy the ride and the show, and Namaste! Selling Bullshit Water by the River. PS: There is already water by the River, so I am too lazy to carry Bulls**t there. ( : Bassui: “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. ... If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free. For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

@axiom Fully agree on all points. I should have added some concluding remark from the Absolute side of the street, not everything from the Relative side of the street. >There is noone already, so there is nothing that can be done. There are only appearances arising which may or may not involve what seems to be an individual on some kind of path. Totally agree, but for sake of teaching-efficiacy, the Mahamdura-system throws the stick with which one pokes and blazes the fire only into the fire when the fire is sufficiently burning. In the Mahamudra-System (for example Pointing out the Great Way, Brown), there is only effort or artifical activity (or a person) involved up until and including the stage 3 of One Taste (One Taste = Nondual). One learns to cut all thought- and emotion-arisings fast enough (Stage 1& 2). When one is proficient enough in that, the visual field starts getting nondual (Stage 3), the separation perceived before drops away, and the visual field gets an appearance-only quality, empty, hologram-style. Then, at stage 4 (Nonmeditation Yoga), this effort or artifical activity (or believing in a person or agent doing these things) gets dismantled, because cutting off the Illusion-thought-arisings has become fast enough and automatic. Together with that, the concept of a doer/person/agent gets pointed out as another concept, and the meditation does itself. Here, the mindstream aligns for the first time with the real state of things, that an understanding can happen there really is no person, just a bundle of I-thoughts/I-feelings arising. And of course, there was no person/individual in the past, only an apparant Gestalt that looked like that, and which one used to overlay ones true being (Infinite Conciousness or Reality itself) with, there isnt one now, and there never can or will be, only as an illusion or overlay on the real nature of things. Ones True Being is able to generate this illusion (magnificienlty), but is not dependend on it. The show can happen without it. But reality can generate this illusion. Basically then one goes full Tony Parsons (there is no person, nothing needs to be done), but only at stage 4 Nonmeditation Yoga and not before. If you do it before, certain qualities are not generated that one needs to conform to the enlightened mind (nonduality, mere-appearance/imagined hologram-like quality of the visual field, infinitesness of the visual field, space not as independend self-existing "thing" but sth. imagined in consciousness which consciousness doesnt need to imagine, time and memory happening in it now, that one cant get out of it because there is no outside, and some other stuff). And when all of that is in place, Basis-Enlightenment or Crossing Over can happen, which Brown describes (among other things): " Seemingly individual consciousness (yid), the point of observation throughout the entire path of meditation, is now found to be a mere concept (btagspa), which drops away. … The seeming reality of individual consciousness along with its functions and activities gives way, leaving only an infinite ocean of awareness-space " The description of enlightenment as a dropping away of any kind of separate-identity/person/individual arising is universal in all enlightenment descriptions. Don't worry, by definition, the real you can't go away - ever. Only an illusion is seen through and understood. And the real you can generate the separate-self Illusion-show, so nothing really is lost. Whats more fundamental is still there. So It sounds more negative than it is. Leaving only an infinite ocean of awareness-space: And if you have become so impersonal or universal consciousness (nondual) that you can have that state of huge nonduality/mere appearance of the visual field/infiniteness sobre, well then you have deconstructed your separate self enough. This is the Gate-Keeper of the Gateless Gate. This deconstruction is better said a high-speed-search-task-and-cutting-off of separate self illusion-arisings (I-feelings, I-thoughts, Trekchö-Style), and that is what boosts the nonduality and mere appearance aspect of the visual field, which is exactly what you can also boost with psychedelics, but with much more of the separate-self illusions still staying intact.... Frank Yang called that once the God-Mind-state. >From the other side of the gate, it is said that to see apparent individuals believing that they exist, believing in their own agency... believing they have achieved enlightenment or indeed anything at all - is the sweetest joke going. Fully agree. And if it can happen natty in Nonduality-States, it can even more easily happen with doing only/mainly Psychedelics, because among other things, they exactly boost that Nonduality/mere apperance/infinite state. And if the separate self arisings are not fully seen through, you can get quite a show. And by the way, as Ken Wilber said, people doing both meditation and psychedelics, get the most out of it, so I am not against Psychedelics at all. Somebody made a very nice youtube-Channel on looking deep into the Abyss or Nothingness that precedes Nonduality: Prior to Non-Duality https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g You can have full blow nonduality WITH an enlightened ego/person with an identity still going on, believing to be enlightened. Believing to be Awareness, Presence, God, whatever not. Stage 3 in Mahamudra. Quite a show... Beautiful video on that by Jac O'Keffee: and now, walking from the Relative Side of the Street a bit more towards its Absolute Side: In actuality, there is nobody selling water by the river, and nobody is buying it... And the short form, of all written above is: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Enjoy the ride!

Thats true. Although it can take quite a while without psychedelics. That stage was variously called the One Taste (Yoga of One Taste), Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind, .... But who or what is aware of that? At that stage, there is still some nebulous murky identity arising, watching or being aware of this Nondual Big Self. Even in this Nonduality/Unity, there are the last remnants of the separate self (very subtle, hard to spot, takes some training) still arising. Roger Thisdell has some nice youtube-videos on that: Not Self - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (4/5) In Roger Thisdells System, it is his stage 4, which is beyond his stage 3 Big Mind, which is already Nondual (One Taste/Yoga of One Taste, Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind) with a already much reduced separate self. Stage 3 can have full Nonduality/Unity, with the separate self much more intact than the pretty empty Not-Self of stage 4 (which has just Individuality or a murky Subject-Object left). It is Ken Wilber Empty Witness, Daniel Brown "Individuality", Jac O'Keeffe "Identity", Greg Goode transparent witness vs. opaque witness, Nisargadattas and Stephen Wolinskis Brahman vs. Parabrahman). One can find this stage in every system: Infinite Nonduality/Unity with the remnants of a separate self, some kind of identity or indviduality/separateness. And the last stage in his system, stage 5, Enlightenment: True No Self and No Centre - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (5/5) And then perceiving this boundless infinite field of mere appearance of your Awareness Bubble/reality/infinity, and then dissolving the last arising remnants of any remaining subject arisings perceiving this nondual infinity. These can be very subtle, "no-self"-arisings perceiving infinity, but still some subjectivity/individuality sensation/arisings remaining. But these arisings of any form of subject/individuality can still be seen as objects hovering in the infinite field/Suchness that you are. Don't worry, your True Self will still be there afterwards if these separate-self remnants dissolve. Then one can understand why it is so often said there is nothing beyond this stage. Because it is you, it is Existence itself, see the Ralston Video. To learn these last tricks of the separate self, you need enough time in these states, and the right techniques, (for a suggestion see below, no artifical activity), and then the One Hand Claps. How to do that? I like the Nonmeditation-Yoga in Daniels Browns "Pointing out the Great Way". Learn to automize the meditation (on the pillow and in daily life) of cutting off these separate self arisings, so that no more of what he calls "artifical activity" is necessary, because any effort at that stage done by a doer/separate self arising prevents the realization. It has to become fully automized. Definition of concepts Awakening, Enlightenment and No-Self: I believe we got a lot of different meanings of what we mean by No-Self, and Awakening and Enlightenment. Enlightenment: If Enlightenment is knowing what you are and what existence is, being able to stay in that knowledge in everday life: That has an endpoint: You know what you are and what existence is. And that brings permanent happiness and bliss. Of course you can suffer when you have bodily pain, but psychological suffering is gone. Resting in your True Nature generates bliss by itself. And that is the same as True No-Self, which is the same as True Self, because it is Reality and the core or Buddha-Nature of every being. But here, words loose their meaning, because reality has no opposite. No-Self: The real No-Self is not just giving up the Personality/Ego and going to the Witness (opaque or transparent, which can even be Nondual Kosmic Consciousness/Nature Mysticism style) with something still watching. That something can be mostly empty, just a transparent witness, but it still has the last duality of some kind of individuality. Problem is: This is something one only fully understands when these remnant-arisings of individuality are gone. If there is no separate self having individuality, the universe is watching itself, appearances watching themselves, thoughts are arising in immense vastness as objects, floating through you like the sound of a bird, and the feeling of being something separate is also seen as object in immense vastness. See Roger Thisdell stage 5. Awakening: If one defines Awakening as knowing all the manifestation mechanisms in this or any other dimension, then one perspective/being can be more awake than another. But: Infinity means there are endless dimensions. And a few thoughts on Genetics and Meditation: I believe that using the right meditation techniques at the right stage are essential, more so than genetics. Good techniques change along the path, check for example Pointing Out the Great Way by Daniel Brown. Classic Self-Help-Mindset: I would never let my success and drive be limited by such a limiting belief genetics <-> meditation. Do the the best with the Karma you have. Give it a try! The biggest heros are those who go furthest with the worst genetics/Karma. How do you know if you are limited, if you dont't fully try? Maybe you are not? And of course use Psychedelics on top, why not? If anybody is annoyed by this attempt to Sell water by the River: Please review the perspectives, do your own experiments, and review the outcome. My suggestion would be in judging if any insight is valueable, worthwhile, and higher: Does it bring the understanding of what you are and what reality is, beyond any doubt? Does it bring permanent satisfaction and bliss? And don't worry: Its already what you are, covered by lots of mistaken identities, and it is the only thing you can not loose. The only stuff you can loose are arising appearances, confusions/ignorance of what you think you are. By the way, does anybody read that until the end here?

I agree with Leos comment that this part of Buddhism is not God Realization. Its the basic teaching from the first turning of the wheel. Ken Wilber also clearly says that insight into Ultimate Reality didn't occur at that stage of Buddhism, it was a insight and experience of the causal stage (Godhead, pure consciousness, but not world/apppearance arising within that), not Nondual Realization of Ultimate Reality. (And experience of Nonduality is not automatically realization of Ultimate Reality). The realization of Ultimate Reality (the imagination or manifestation part) occured later, at Nagarjuna, and the second turning of the wheel, and was only clearly formulated philosophically with the third turning, the Yogachara or Mind-Only school. If you want some really iconoclastic thoughts, read that the founder of Jainism has practically the same story/hagiography as Buddha, as explained in Mike Crowley in "Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana", and draw your own conclusions concerning the historic Buddha. So who knows who had which realization back then... Looking at the literature these systems produced, one can make educated guesses. A quote from Ken Wilbers "Integral Buddhism": "The idea is that Buddhadharma (Buddhist Truth) has itself already undergone three (or four) major evolutionary Turnings in its own Teachings, according to Buddhism itself. The First Turning began with the original, historical Gautama Buddha himself, and is preserved to this day in teachings such as the Theravada. The Second Turning was introduced by the genius Nagarjuna, around 200 CE, with his revolutionary notion of shunyata, or the radical Emptiness or “unqualifiability” of ultimate Reality (which could be said neither to be, nor not to be, nor both, norneither—the idea being to clear the mind of any and all concepts about Reality so that Reality in itself could be directly experienced), a notion that became the foundation of virtually every Mahayana (“Greater Vehicle”) and Vajrayana (“Diamond Vehicle”) teaching henceforth. The Third Turning occurred with the half brothers Asanga and Vasubandhu, and is generally called the Yogachara school, sometimes referred to as the “Mind-Only” school (which agreed with Nagarjuna that ultimate Reality was Emptiness, but so was ultimate Mind). This teaching became a central foundation of the great Tantra and Vajrayana (Diamond Path) teachings, which particularly flourished in such places as the extraordinary Nalanda University in India from the 8th to the 11th century CE, and continued unabated in Tibetan Buddhist schools—and, indeed, many Buddhists consider Tantra and Vajrayana to be a “Fourth Turning of the Wheel.” Also in Ken Wilbers model the realization of Ultimate Reality started first with the second turning of the wheel (Nagarjuna), which was not descriptive at all but pure neti-neti, pure emptiness, pure not this - not that. The Yogachara-School, or "Mind-Only" school, changed that. To quote Leo from a previous video "Reality is a giant Mind". The Yogachara-School is very in line with that. "This teaching became a central foundation of the great Tantra and Vajrayana (Diamond Path" (see above). Also Mahamudra and Dzogchen evolved out of that. The Yogachara-School (or the lines influenced from it most) today is not Theravada, it is not Zen. Parts of it survived for example in Tibetan Buddhism. In my view and experience there are the most sophisticated meditation systems of the planet, see the writings of Daniel Brown. He practically translated all of the secret Tantric Hermit Yoga Stuff. For the most efficient meditation system on the planet (at least in my view), see his Mahamudra-Book "Pointing out the great Way", and his subsequent Dzogchen-Books, where he translated for the first time with permission from Menri Trizin all the secret stuff. The Yogachara-School, or "Mind-Only" school, is most in line with Leos view, as far as see it. The Tibetan Traditions, like for example Dzogchen and Mahamudra, continued to evolve, and that is why we can read something like the Supreme Source, see my first reply in this threat, coming from these traditions. In my view, much of the Supreme Source is also in line with most of Leos perspective and his experiences and realizations. So when it comes to looking for God-Realization in Buddhism, maybe in these schools one can find the most. But even then, one has to read between the lines. But Buddhism then in some traditions developed backwards, lost its sophistication, as here very clearly (and surprisingly harshly) said by Ken Wilber on Zen for example: " But there were, nevertheless, still more unfoldings to occur. Particularly by the 4th century CE, the question had become insistent: granted that the Absolute cannot be categorized literally in dualistic terms and concepts, is there really nothing whatsoever that could be said about it at all? At least in the realm of conventional truth, couldn’t more systems, maps, models, and at least metaphors be offered about Reality and how to realize it? Already, in such brilliant treatises as the Lankavatara Sutra, the answer was a resounding yes. The Lankavatara Sutra was so important it was passed down to their successors by all 5 of the first Chan (or Zen) Head-Founders in China, as containing the essence of the Buddha’s teachings. In fact, the early Chan school was often referred to as the Lankavatara school, and a history of this early period is entitled Records of the Lankavatara Masters. (Starting with the 6th Head-Founder, Hui Neng, the Diamond Sutra—a treatise solely devoted to pure Emptiness—displaced the Lankavatara, and in many ways Zen lost the philosophical and psychological sophistication of the Lankavatara system and focused almost exclusively on nonconceptual Awareness. Zen Masters were often depicted tearing up sutras, which really amounted to a rejection of the 2 Truths doctrine. This was unfortunate, in my opinion, because in doing so, Zen became less than a complete system, refusing to elaborate conventional maps and models. Zen became weak in relative truths, although it brilliantly succeeded in elaborating and practicing ultimate Truth." So what do we have today when it comes to Buddhism? Theravada, which is a successor school of the schools of the first turning of the wheel, see above. Didn't really participate in the second and third turnings, which explains why its philosophy doesnt really reflect the sophistications of these systems. Here I agree with Leo. Still the meditation methods of these systems work for some if you do them long enough. Zen, see the comment of Wilber above. Tibetan Buddhism: They have in my opinion the most sophisticated meditation techniques, because they continued developing new methods, and contain the Yogachara Mind-Only perspective. The wording is of course not contemporary, one has to overlook a lot of "medieval" stuff, for example the cosmology of Tantra and so on. But even that can be understood and be put into perspective with something like the Supreme Array Sutra, Osto: https://psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz The above overview is for sure not complete. So not all schools/systems of Buddhism have the same level of development, sophistication and efficiacy concerning meditation-methods and views on reality. Personally, I feel that some compassion with some of the traditions criticized in the text above helps me to keep a benevolent feeling towards them. But it should also be clear what the limits of the system are, and how efficient each is, and how good its view is. Ken Wilbers comment on Zen (above) was helpful for me, because I had the same feelings when I compared for example Zen and its anti-intellectualism (which also has its place in the right context) with Mahamudra/Dzogchen. I believe in our lifetime we will start to see which systems "score" in producing realized ones, and which only get lucky in collecting genetically/karmically privileged ones for their own tradition. The efficiacy of a system is getting not only the the karmically/genetically superstars to the finish-line, but normal talented ones also. The Ramanas and Anandamayi Ma of this world always get to the finish line. The real challenge is getting normally talented ones to realize their true nature.

Yes. What helped me here, since its always a question of definition (for example of the Supreme Witness): You are that which is aware. And the Totality of Reality itself, since it can only show up in that which is aware. But the Totality of Reality is often only seen as that which appears (The appearance side). And that can totally disappear (Deep Sleep), and the real you is still there, unaware of itself, but with a latent capacity for sentience if something appears again (the emptiness or consciousness/aware side). So the question is: How "empty" is the Supreme Witness. When it is so empty that no arisings/feeling (very subtle I-feelings/I-thoughts) arise and appear in the Totality (call it Reality, Infinite Consciousness, God, Dharmakaya, whatever you want), or you clearly see them all as objects/arisings/movements within you, then what you realize yourself to be very obviously is the Totality/Reality/Infinite Consciousness,... . The stage before that is the Supreme Witness, or Empty Witness: Ken Wilber calls that the Empty Witness: Personality, and especially time and space are already transcended, "you" feel the infinite reality as mere appearance, timeless. And always here. But there are still some clusters of sensations arising IN YOU that feel like individuality, or that you are not the unbounded whole, but a feeling of watching it appears in you. You are not all of it, the sensation of "other" still arise a lot in daily life, you dont feel that you what looks from all eyes is the same consciousness that gets clouded by feelings/thoughts of I/me, exactly like how it used to get clouded in you. The realization is neither stable, nor complete. And then at some point you realize that (learn to spot) these arisings/feelings/building blocks of the Supreme Witness or Empty Witness are still left and arising/moving in you. You learn to spot them in a sort of High-Speed-Analysis, recognize them as arisings/objects appearing within you, and you can stop them immediately (subject->object), or just watch them. Then they drop, the Empty Witness drops, and the real you stays. But that is described by some as impersonal, a formulation that I am not totally happy with. Yes, its impersonal, its not the you you thought you were, but its the real you. And that real you "has" or "contains" the personal you moving in it. Then that boosts the nondual state, makes the whole world appear just as mere appearance, an imagined illusion, infinite, groundless, a mirage happening within you (that also starts before, but gets boosted a lot the more the Empty Witness drops). Pretty much a state that Psychedelics cause, but sobre. And with it comes happiness and bliss independend of what happens at that moment, which is the most beautiful aspect of it. If you dont have nonduality and nonseparation and are not aware of the Ground of Being in normal life (while not meditating or tripping), these very subtle arisings/I-feelings/I-thoughts still arise in you and are not spotted with high enough speed to see them for what they are: Sensations of separation arising within the real you. In my experience, you can not force real Nonduality/mere appearance of the totality/world, its an energetic state that gets influenced "indirectly" over how fast you spot these I-thoughts/I-feelings. Here I am fully in line when Leo says you need the right state (of enought nonduality, illusion-like mere appearance of the world, directly feeling it all as mere empty consciousness appearance mirage-arising). When you spot these subtle arisings (building blocks of the separate self and even Empty Witness) fast enough, they arise in you. But you can't force it with willpower, that would be what Daniel Brown in Pointing out the Great Way calls "artifical activity" during the stage of Nonmeditation Yoga (last stage of the 4 Mahamudra stages). It becomes automatic once you understand it at that stage. Its one of the Illusion-Mechanism of Maya that you can't force your way through it with willpower, but you can do it indirectly with understanding how to rest in your true nature. The energetic state of nonduality follows. Its some kind of positive feedback loop, sloping "upwards" if done correctly. I agree with Leo that Nonduality (which ripens) is in its early stages not realization of Ultimate Reality. Daniel Brown for example also. But realization of Ultimate Reality has to be nondual, since its a unity and infinite. And this development can pretty easily stagnate (especially before nonduality even begins to start), and stop if you do something incorrect, or understand something incorrect. Which pretty much happens with 99% of Buddhists. So the separate you disappears, but the real you as Awareness AND the Reality/World stays. So the Illusion-You disappears, but the real you is of course, as always, there. It can not "not be there". That is the Unborn, Reality itself. The real you. And in that area/stage definitions of different authors and traditions get very slippery, since these "feelings" of the Supreme Witness (as you intuit) are very very subtle, and its very easy to identify with them and not notice it. Over the years, I ended up with a metaphor for myself: Zen is like axe to cut a tree. Very robust, works if you do it long enough hard enough pretty foolproof, doesnt need a lot complex theory/stages, but normally takes a long time and is not so pleasant (and in practice for most doesnt deliver the final results, because it takes extreme willpower). More sophisticated versions of Buddhism, with a more detailed map, like Mahamudra/Dzogchen (see for example Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), are like a Forest Harvester: If used correctly very fast, quite pleasant (for the user, probably not for the forest) and comfortable along the path, but quite hard to understand and learn, since language is so slippery in these areas. Like if you want to use a Forest Harvester, and if you dont get explained how it works (like put gas in it, how to drive it, its controls), delivers no result at all. Zen = robust, sit long enough with a Koan and you get it, not much to misunderstand, but neither very fast nor pleasant Mahamudra/Dzogchen = very sophisticated with techniques and details and pointing out descriptions for every stage, but if used incorrectly (like not putting as into forest harvester) no result at all even if you do it a long time. Some Material for that stage I found useful: 1) Massaro, Spiritual Conversations with a Skeptic: "Imagine a formless, space-like void that's indestructible, sentient, awake, alive and aware, but has no form. You could almost say it has no self awareness. It just is. Russell: So wait... A void? A vacuum? Nothing? Bentinho: Yes. Just imagine it. Russell: OK, go ahead. Bentinho: The point of the analogy is that there is no object. Imagine infinite space with no stars or planets. Suddenly, you introduce a toy; let's say a water pistol. Or it could be a body even. But let's say... Russell: An object. Bentinho: Yeah, an object. A water pistol. Russell: With water in it. Bentinho: Maybe with Coca-Cola in it. Russell: With Coca-Cola in it. OK. Bentinho: Ah! Now there is something. Something is created. First there is this space, which is like the pure subject with no reference points. It's like space, but it's not actually space. Russell: Wait... where am I in relation to this infinite space? Bentinho: You are it. Russell: I am it? Bentinho: Yes. Russell: OK. But there is nothing in it at first. Bentinho: Correct. There is nothing in it at all; there is just Infinity. Russell: But I am in it. Bentinho: You are it. " 2) How other perspectives/beings work: A Human is aware of only his perspective (normally). But Infinite Consciousness can forget in time (what did you do exactly one year ago), or to be more precice NOT imagine that memory, and it can forget in space (metaphor of Francis Lucille). To get an idea watch the cover of this book of Marc Leavitt. Notice the hyperbolic geometry of the awareness fields shown. Reality is made of perspectives (Ken Wilber, Concept of Indras Net). Reality is a giant mind (Leo, and more or less all traditions). https://www.amazon.com/Enlightenment-Behind-Scenes-Marc-Leavitt/dp/1495398218 3) How to Approach Phenomenal Consciousness, Jac O'keeffe. She calls Ultimate Reality Totality Primary Consciousness "the fundamental primary phenomenal consciousness (her name for Ultimate Reality, Infinite Consciousness, the real you), it has a capacity. It doesn't even know itself here. However, it has a capacity to show up with a sense of emptiness (a subtle arising feeling/perception happening in you). To show up as one. To show up as a one who can reflect on itself and recognize that it is, and we have the concept of existence. And it can go from that sense of vast spaciousness and that unified field into time, which appears as a dot. " "We're left with consciousness (-> Primary Consciousness) that cannot know itself. It's such a fundamental that it actually can't know itself. However, it is known. You can drop back there and it is known, but you can't bring yourself there or your capacities to know it. It's almost like it's so fundamental that it can't turn around and see itself. It doesn't see itself. That's too much movement (arisings, objects, subtle I-feelings/I-thoughts, not fully empty/infinite). That's movement such as space, time and identification and me, myself, I, and the building of my movie that happens" Here she describes how Primary Consciousness is so empty that it cant turn around to see itself. Because that turning around would already be a movement, a arising, a subtle object within Primary consciousness/Real you. 4) Stephen Wolinsky, or how Empty is your Empty Witness or Supreme Witness: from Wolinsky, Nothing Comes From Nothing " Knowing or being aware of or consciousness of who you are is “one step” away from being who you are. This is why the Buddha said, “You might not necessarily be aware of your own enlightenment. Why? Because there is no aware-er or awareness or knower or knowingness, to be aware of or know or know about or be conscious of the Absolute. And why Lakshamann Joo said, “Whenever you perceive something, you perceive it from one level lower.” (remark: You can never see the Absolute Reality/Consciousness, cause looking or searching for it is a movement of attention WITHIN IT. But you can understand it, be it, intuit it, from one level lower. The Supreme Witness is one of the last movements IN YOU/Reality looking for absolute consciousness, inducing an experience of it, which of course is not it because it is you). Paradoxically As the Absolute there is no Absolute If the “I” or “you” “has an “experience” and believes it IS consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or that it IS an “imagined” infinity, then the “I” or “you” mistakenly assumes and projects that experience upon the Absolute. Once that occurs the “I” or “you” then completely believes and ergo experiences that the Absolute also has or IS the experience of consciousness has or IS the experience of awareness has or IS the experience of infinite potential has or IS the experience of presence has or IS the experience of an “imagined” infinite. Consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or an “imagined” infinite are the most subtle of the most subtle states and veils which give the illusion of awareness, the illusion of consciousness the illusion of presence and the illusion of both beingness and being conscious. This “experiential belief” of consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or an “imagined” infinite or “infinity, is an anthropomorphically projected experience of consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or an “imagined” infinite or “infinity. Thus giving the illusionary experience of awareness, the illusionary experience of consciousness the illusionary experience of presence and the illusionary experience of both beingness and being conscious. Which are then Superimposed on the Absolute Nothingness. Simply stated, the experience of consciousness awareness infinite potential presence or an “imagined” infinite or “infinity is an experience. This experience gives the illusion of a beingness, isness or existence to these temporary subtle veils and experiences which are made of nothing. The Absolute is without the Absolute Nothingness " 5) Prior to Nonduality Youtube-Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g Mechanisms of Creation/Imagination/Manifestation: Its important and nice to find out HOW you imagine this world with all of its infinite mechanism. And the first and fundamental mechanisms on how imagination/manifestation (in any universe/dimension) can occur can be understood (for example how the fundamental archetypes of space and time (giving "objects" or appearances that change in time), and the first "movements" (even if they are formless) of appearances in consciousness are spawned out from the Infinite Consciousness/Reality. That is for example described by Ken Wilber as the manifestation of the first Archetypes at the causal stage (he calls it low causal, while high causal being the empty ultimate Godhead). But since Reality/Spirit/God is able to manifest/imagine infinite Worlds, with totally different mechanism than our universe for example, by definition one will never be able to understand all of their mechanisms, since you dont have access to all Realities (and you couldnt while being human). And you can never explore all of them, by definition of what Infinity means. That is what God/Reality itself is exploring. Leo mentioned that in "Outrageous Experiments In Consciousness - 30 Awakenings In 30 Days.", there are infinite dimensions of awakening. Which is, as mentioned, quite shocking. But for sure its nice and important to grasp the fundamental mechanism of imagination/manifestation, which apply to all universes/dimensions (since all are appearances), and understanding that in your deepest being you are that one Reality. I believe these fundamentals are important to understand and realize and experience. Else "you" are stuck with believing experiencing Nonduality or Emptiness is it, while that is only the start to realize Infinity. And you can of course realize the Groud of Being, your true nature. But one can never explore all mechanism of manifestation, since a human in its limited time can never explore all realms of manifestation (and there are for examples according to Jac O'Keffee and Stephen Wolinsky some truly alien realms that are not build with the building blocks of this Universe. Yet they are also only appearances). So at some level one either says "Its details, and one can never explore all mechanism of manifestation, because even for God/Absolute Reality there are Infinite Realms of Appearances/Worls/Universes to explore", or it is a grasping for seeing as much as possible. Which is a high level recipe for nevery finding the constant peace/happiness independend of outer circumstances, the hallmark of the enlightened ones, and also nevery fully resting it. Maya is awe-inspiring, and her Illusion-Mechanisms (which are necessary for this Lila) go to the highest level also. But understanding the fundamental mechanism of how manifestation/imagination occurs, how you fool yourself (Maya), what ultimate Reality/God/Spirit is, what other is, how Maya works, what one really is and how one imagines otherwise, that is all essential. And of course humanity will go exploring all of that (manifestation/imagination mechanisms, mechanisms of Maya, "going Psychonaut" and exploring it, exploring Ken Wilbers subtle and low causal realms and mapping them. He even said in the next 1000 years probably many new substages will show up and getting formed & described during exploration). This understanding will grow. Buddhism has evolved in the past, there is not even one Buddhism, there are many different streams, some more developed/sophisticated/efficient than others. I don't think Buddhism will disappear, so it will change and evolve by definition. Buddhism happens in Infinity, not the other way round. And to conclude: I hope this is interesting and helpful for some of you. It took me a long time to understand why there are so many, often contradicting statements in the spiritual traditions/teachers/psychonautic explorers, and how Reality is structured (and the differing perspectives & statements it supports and brings forth on various stages/states) to enable and support all of these differing perspectives, experiences and viewpoints. For sure, this picture isn't complete, but at least for me tells a story that for me is sufficient to continue my practice in peace and enjoy what it brings into my life, be able to sort all these often conflicting messages in a large and hopefully integral perspective, and stay interested in how Reality is structured that all of that can appear in it (the psychonaut approach). And of course its nearly impossible to communicate all of that in language. In case anybody has read all of the above until here: A metaphor that, if I remember correctly, also Ken Wilber once used: Zen would deliver the much more precise summary, which is why I also like Zen a lot: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Matsuo Basho (1644-1694)

I agree. The Quotes are from the Kunjed Gyalpo Tantra, a foundational text of Buddhist Dzogchen, ~1000 years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulayarāja_Tantra So yes, you wont find this guy at a local retreat. And also Buddhism had to evolve to that point, these insights were not there in early Buddhism, but at the stage of the Kunjed Gyalpo Tantra they were. And besides clearly defining the Ground of Being and the true nature of all beings, and how Infinite Consciousness or the Supreme Source manifests/imagines reality, they were also tripping and exploring its infinite creations, see "The Supreme Array Scripture: A Psychedelic Sutra for Buddhist Psychonauts, Douglas Osto". Of course in a medieval non-scientifiy lingo, but still fascinating. If you read between the lines, there have been many realizers of that degree desribed in the Supreme Source/Kunjed Gyalpo Tantra in the Dzogchen and Mahamudra-Traditions. Both over the centuries, but also in our time. They tended and tend to hold back, because walking the fine line between expressing their deepest nature and not falling for spiritual pride is difficult, and expressing fully can easily be misunterstood. Despite much of Buddhism being dogmatic, and its effectiveness in producing realized ones has been low considering the total number of persons engaged in it, there are quite efficient techniques that are being brought to the West (For example Daniel Browns "Pointing out the Great Way"). I am convinced that they always used psychedelics (Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Crowley). Ken Wilber for example also clearly states that people using Meditation AND psychedelics profit more than using either alone, see Video minute 3. To conclude: Osto, The Supreme Array Scripture: "So how is the Supreme Array of use for the modern Buddhist psychonaut? First, it demonstrates how important visionary experience was for Mahāyāna Buddhism. Some modern traditions like Zen and Vipassana tend to downplay or disparage visions as at best distractions from the path, or as signs of mental imbalance. Why are visions so disparaged in these established forms of modern Buddhism? Because visionary spiritual is dangerous. It undermines the status quo of the institutionalized authority structures. If anyone can have a vision that reveals a higher order of reality, then the authority of the gurus is undermined. The Supreme Array also describes the correct Mahāyāna intention toward visionary experience – Sudhana’s one goal is omniscient buddhahood in order to save all beings. In other words, he has the “mind of enlightenment” (bodhicitta) and therefore his intention is pure when he enters an altered state and has visions. In this way, the Supreme Array also supplies some insight into the goal of visionary experience – visions for their own sake (the fireworks) are pointless. The goal is to gain insight into the Mahāyana Buddhist path so one can be a better bodhisattva. Moreover, the scripture provides insight into how visionary experience reveals a higher order of reality. Because of their emptiness, phenomena are dreamlike and illusory. And because all things lack inherent existence or are “empty,” everything interpenetrates and inter-reflects every other thing in the omniverse. Space and time are endless, but as the Chinese Huayan masters say, “The one contains the all, and the all contains the one.” Finally, the indescribable vastness of time and space revealed in the sūtra function to deconstruct our ordinary linear ways of viewing time and space, and expand our vision to include the entire cosmos. In this way, the personal stories of our lives are connected to the cosmic story of the bodhisattva’s journey to enlightenment."

Attachment is a very deep subject in both spirituality and psychology and the healing of our core attachment wounds improve both those separate lines of development (not confusing spiritual development for realization). This link stems from the work of Daniel P Brown whose has not only been the lead pioneer in attachment research in the world of psychology and psychotherapy but also an advanced Vajrayana Mahamudra that’s been trained by some of the best including the likes of the Dalai Lama. He’s written works like Transformations of Consciousness with Ken Wilber as well as his groundbreaking work Pointing Out The Great Way. The extent of his work though is really a magnum opus in itself so I won’t really do it justice. Anyways.. Many of you are probably kinda crazy like me. I have a lot of trauma but also was diagnosed with ADHD as early as 6 along and so forth. I notice some of you on here point out that you guys struggle with similar things and coincidentally that shows up as issues not just in day your meditation/spiritual practice but also your relationships and other behavioral patterns. One of the things that’s being found with ambiguous issues like ADHD for example is not just that it’s a multidimensional issues that likely doesn’t have just one source but that it’s also commonly rooted in things like attachment disorders/disturbances based on the 5 pillars that constitute healthy or unhealthy attachment but also things even like trauma and even prenatal trauma. Now trauma and attachment disorders aren’t really the same but they “interact” or relate. This has become an issue for many of us (particularly boys/guys/men) in this day in age due to the transformation that’s resulted in the modern and postmodern family system as it moved out of more traditional family systems prior to women joining the workforce and this children had less attention and nurturance that were too busy working (PLEASE RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO FALL INTO IDEOLOGICAL THINKING WITH THIS AS THATS NOT WHERE I’M COMING FROM). I imagine many of us don’t really notice this stuff because it’s become so normal at this point we don’t really see it unless we visit or interact with families in say the 3rd world like say in Tibet (I’ll get to them in a little bit) that don’t have the kind of neurotic dysfunctional family issues that we have here in the west (particularly in America). To highlight this I want to share some things that might illuminate this a bit more using both Tibet and Tibetan Buddhism. There’s a story from some time ago when the Dalai Lama was at a press conference and a Buddhist practitioner (I think it was actually Sharon Salzburg if I’m not mistaken) asked the Dalai Lama about self loathing. The Dalai Lama stopped the press conference for some minutes to speak to his translator. He then proceeded completely bewildered and spoke how Tibetan people don’t have that and how he couldn’t even comprehend why people would do that to themselves in that it was completely unheard of to him. Which isn’t really a tell tale sign about his enlightenment as much as it is a sign that that truly doesn’t exist in Tibet despite the suffering of many people there. It’s a cultural thing. You see, when Tibetan monks practice Loving Kindness in formal Tibetan Buddhism, you know what their practice is? They visualize their mother as their mother was perfectly loving for them. Those early healthy attachment bonds are in place in those early years and that’s really a cultural thing. Can you imagine how many westerners would struggle with such a practice? I know I would and I know I’m not alone as this is common in todays modern and postmodern world relative to the simplicity that comes within a traditional culture. I even notice the contrast in psychological temperament when I hangout with friends that grew up in more traditional upbringings (particularly eastern but even Christian too). Now, what are those 5 Pillars of Attachment? Safety Attunement (usually with the mother) Delight Affect Regulation A sense of support for being and becoming one’s unique best self. If you’d like more details into each of these pillars you can check out the following text in the following link: https://www.onlyyouforever.com/the-5-pillars-of-attachment/ So what do you do if you have any one of those needs or issues in any one of those 5 pillars? Well, here are some resources for you that stem from the work of Daniel P Brown. The first one I suggest is to go to the following link: https://www.attachmentproject.com/ There you can find therapeutic modules and resources to truly heal these wounds and attachment disturbances. They are incredibly affordable as, from what I recall seeing, being under $60. That’s a great deal in my opinion. The next one is what is called The Ideal Parent Visualization which Dan Brown actually guides that you can find here: https://www.integralsomaticawakening.com/resources The protocol for this practice is to do it right when you wake up. If you have a meditation practice you do first thing in the morning, do it before you start your usual practice. This practice is one that’s serves multiples purposes. First off, it’s of course about healing and cultivating core attachment wounds by visualizing (and you can really include the somatic field of your experience - this is big for me personally - if you’re not the best at visualization) perfect ideal parents that aren’t in the image of your biological parents and cultivate those core aspects in your own experience slowly over the course of weeks and really many months. Ultimately though this also evolves into a deeper spiritual practice where the goal is to eventually merge in union with the perfect parents in your visualization as it really is on par as a deity practice. Oops! Did I give that away?! Don’t worry about that though. That’ll happen if and when it happens. Start where you’re at and don’t shoot for anymore than where you’re currently at. There is so much to really say on healing this stuff. Yes it’s nice that it does help promote greater spiritual development but it also helps with healing those core wounds that were created in relationship to others in our childhood that land us sleeping with people that not so coincidentally are very much like our parents and we relate to in the same subtle ways with them as we did with our parents and getting into the same kind of relationships again and again and again. This is karma. We’re trying to fill deeper needs that we didn’t get early in childhood and unconsciously find people to fill those needs. That’s okay. We’re just trying our best with what we got whether we know it or not. There is a way to satiate these unmet needs though. I highly recommend checking those resources out and of course also getting good psychotherapy that deals with these attachment issues. Generally I hear tell it takes 3-18 months to really heal these kinds of disturbances. If I were you though I’d throw away these timelines. If this resonates with you I highly recommend you give yourself what you’ve been looking for. Take care and thanks for staying with this long post if you’ve made it this far. I hope it serves you.