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Angelo Dillulo is a popular nonduality teacher on youtube. The video critic is a former monk. One of the subjects discussed is the monetization of spirituality and the wider culture of modern non-duality.

It’s the traditional method. It’s the same with the Vedanta Society. When you are initiated you will be given a mantra with no talk of nonduality even though Vedanta is nondual. That is because in the traditonal way, purification most come before self realization. You have to quiet the mind before you can make meaningful progress in meditation. In my opinion, the traditionalists are correct. Westerners cherry pick and want the cherries without doing any work.

From what I understand, he is saying the telos of reality is directly intertwined with its complexity. Without nested order, you cannot have evolution. Evolution happens within one's own life, and as a species, so if you believe the relative is a microcosm of the absolute then ontological and spiritual evolution becomes a necessity. If one believes the unifying substance or substrate of reality is some form of matter, then I can see how one would come to the conclusion that evolution is purely a precipitate of biology. What nonduality doesn't fully articulate is that the universe has to be structured in a way that is top down, and bottom up, at the same time. This is how order and complexity are tied to telos.

To be fair , my understanding of what is so called standard nonduality is primarily influenced by actualized.org, so maybe I'm taking some things for granted that a lot of practioners don't .

That sounds like standard nonduality 👀.

Wouldn't meditation under anti-psychotic medication be perfect for you? It stops you from relapsing into another psychotic outbreak while still being able to integrate your psyche and explore nonduality. Just stop doing crazy shit like running naked into the street. It's just bad gameplay. Think of yourself as God playing a human video game chracter. If you fuck up your human's life you are fucked, doesn't matter if your ultimate self is not affected in the grand schemes of things. If you meditate under anti-psychosis you will probably still experience a sort of mini psychosis because ultimately the experience is not caused by chemicals going haywire in your brain; it's due to awakening. Just integrate the lessons sober before you go hardcore into meditation. Someone completely sober can induce psychosis in themselves just by what they think about. Just be careful of having already figured out grounding mechanisms before you start to engage in spiritual practice. It sounds silly but masturbating is one of my mechanisms. As long as you do it privately it will ground you because it will reinforce the paradigm that we are currently operating under i.e. we are both human males and woman are sexy and you wanna fuck them. If you deconstruct it further then you can realize that women are just a figment of your greatest self but that doesn't really matter since it's a great part of reality and you should accept that boundary to remain a sane human being able to function in reality.

I'll be honest, it's still hard for me to understand how God realization is different from traditional nonduality, maybe I haven't tripped enough (then again Leo also says to not trip much in your 20s sooo....). By traditional nonduality I mean Advaita Vedanta , not Buddhism, although plenty of Buddhists said Advaita things , like Huang Po and Bankei who said all was mind. But what I will say is, Leo excels in the realms of developmental psychology and conscious politics, that's something the traditions don't have.

First of all, nonduality is a relative quality/perspective, not Absolute Truth (which includes and transcends both duality and nonduality). Secondly, relative opposites never dissappear. They just become integrated, and thereby transcended. That's the beauty of Reality. It accommodates and allows absolutely everything, because it is absolutely everything. ☯️

Duality and nonduality are two sides of the same coin.

Illusion. This is one of those words which are being thrown around in spiritual circles like they're confetti, and yet very few people seem to understand what the word actually refers to. So, let's analyze the confetti so that we can see it for what it really is(n't). Here's what an illusion is NOT: It's not something that isn't real. It's not something that doesn't exist. It's not a hallucination that is being "dreamed up" by some mysterious invisible being. Here's what an illusion IS: It is an incomplete perception (which is a tautology, since all perception is necessarily incomplete). It is a relative perspective (as opposed to absolute truth). It is a part of reality (as opposed to ALL of reality). Here's an analogy: When we see a magician standing on a stage and performing a magic trick, why do we call that magic trick an illusion? Is it because there is no magician, no white rabbit and no hat that the rabbit is being pulled out of? NOPE. We call it an illusion because we are only seeing part of what is actually happening; we see a real magician pulling a real rabbit out of a real hat, but what we don't see is all of the stuff that is going on behind the scenes - all of the things that have been carefully hidden from our view so that we can be amazed and surprised by the things that we do see happening on stage; and since we are missing the full picture, it appears to us like magic. Does this mean that the illusion is "bad"? No, it doesn't. Not only is the existence of illusions not bad, but in fact it is a necessary condition for reality being able to experience/be aware of itself, since reality can only ever be partially perceived and experienced, but never as a 100% complete whole. No illusions = no experience of reality. Here are examples of things that are illusions: The black letters appearing on a white screen that you are seeing now are an illusion. The thought "those black letters appearing on a white screen are just an illusion" is an illusion. The notion that there is something rather than nothing is an illusion. The notion that there is nothing rather than something is an illusion. The notion that reality is physical is an illusion. The notion that reality is a dream is an illusion. The notion that you are human is an illusion. The notion that you are not human is an illusion. The notion that you are consciousness is an illusion. The notion that you are not consciousness is an illusion. Duality is an illusion. Nonduality is an illusion. Oneness is an illusion. Multiplicity is an illusion. Solipsism is an illusion. Time is an illusion. Timelessness is an illusion. Form is an illusion. Formlessness is an illusion. Free will is an illusion. No free will is an illusion. Meaning is an illusion. Meaninglessness is an illusion. Self is an illusion. No-self is an illusion. Anything that can be perceived, experienced and be expressed with words is an illusion. Again: An illusion is NOT something that doesn't exist. An illusion is a part of reality that "stands out" (in your awareness) from the rest of reality. So not only do illusions exist, but as a matter of fact, ILLUSIONS ARE THE ONLY THING(S) THAT EXIST. That which does not exist - which doesn't "stand out" - is the Absolute, which is no-thing aka. everything. --- All of what you just read is an illusion (-> a relative perspective). And all of what you are going to reply will also be an illusion. Now, are you going to cling to one illusion and reject the other, or are you going to be aware of that which holds, encompasses, expresses itself as and transcends all illusions? Your choice.

He is both a genius and a creepy loser. Nonduality. Yin-yang.

It is timeless. Its the same message you've been hearing your whole life except its wrapped up in a great, entertaining movie. Just like the word awakening is. Or enlightenment, God realization, nonduality, buddha nature, christ consciousness, gnosis, the list goes on forever. To borrow from The Matrix again here, you can only be shown the door - you're the one that has to walk through it. If you haven't experienced 'Know Thyself' then to you its just a story - a pointer. If you do Know Thyself then you lost any angst over pointers such as God and/or solipsism.

The ancient scriptures are actually deep expressions of the human condition. But they get turned into fomulas for the masses and become mechanical. I find the rantings of some fundamentalist christians similar in its shallowness to nonduality blabber. We aren't improving.

I listened to Osho fervently for years, I didn't find out he was a perv cultist until after I got tired of him, but here's the best tip I got from him, from his book of secrets - Do not move your eyes. If you keep them still, you can turn everything you see into one solid block. That's nonduality. It's amazing that nobody just lays it out this clearly if they already have it but here it is. I was walking in central park when I had my first "oh shit, awakening is real" experience. I was in a meditative-like trance from walking 5+ miles and when I stopped moving my eyes, I saw all of the reality in front of me as a horizontal flame of light, like an unsheathing of God's sword. The best way I can explain it is my field of view slightly increased, I was acutely aware of the edges/ blackness surrounding my visual field and the strange loop or NONLOCALITY of experience became obvious. The "turn it into a solid" comes from Fred Davis - sometimes it's difficult to distinguish noise from real truth with him but that was the most instantly awakening pointer I've ever heard, as well as the "keep your eyes still" tip. If you keep your eyes still constantly around other people you'll look like a weirdo, so make sure to just do it in your private/meditative time.

What does any of that have to do with the discussion? I’m talking to a stranger on the internet about deep philosophical questions. I’m not interested in your personal life..your biography or whatever else you think is relevant. I’m interested in the discussion we’re actually having. If you’re busy with the three boy's birthday party then don’t post today . The bolded part is where you seem to completely miss the point: “thoughts and apparent answers “matter. They matter because we are trying to investigate something. If your response to every attempt at investigation is “there is no self..nothing is happening.. bla bla bla” then congratulations ..you’ve successfully turned a potentially interesting philosophical discussion between two human beings into a discussion between a human and a robot. You’re one of the most closed-minded people I’ve encountered in this community. Not because you hold a particular position..but because you seem almost incapable of stepping outside that position to actually examine anything else. Everything gets filtered through the same Jim Newman-style template. Ask a question? “There is no one asking.” Raise a possibility? “There is no one to understand it.” Explore an implication? “Bla bla bla.” Challenge the premise? Repeat the premise even louder. And the funniest part is that you seem genuinely afraid of engaging with these questions in an open-minded way. What exactly are you worried about? If the position is genuinely beyond question..then questioning it should cause absolutely no threat to it. But apparently even entertaining another perspective is dangerous territory for you . I understand the whole neo advaitan uncompromising nonduality position. I really do. The message is essentially that there is no separate self..nothing to attain..nothing to become and ultimately no meaningful message being delivered. Fine. That’s internally coherent on its own terms. And for some people..that radical perspective may be liberating or point toward a profound inner peace. And it is like that for me as well . Pretty interesting stuff . But here’s the part you seem unable or unwillingto grasp ..That doesn’t make it the only legitimate way of investigating reality. Some people are interested in going further into questions about consciousness ..subjectivity..perception.existence..thought experience.. how to integrate modern science with traditional religion and with esoteric spirituality.. because we need the three in our lives not just one . We don’t live on bread alone . We are not just some biological animals who want to eat drink piss shit fuck reproduce shower sleep and die . And yes I’m aware of the standard disclaimer: the message is meaningless..there are no promises,..there is nothing to understandetc. Wonderful. Then let’s stop pretending that endlessly repeating those disclaimers constitutes philosophical investigation. If you genuinely believe the entire thing is beyond concepts and cannot be meaningfully discussed then by all means stop discussing it. But you see you keep logging in into the forum and you keep discussing. if you’re going to participate in a philosophical discussion ..at least participate in the discussion. You don’t have to agree with me. You just have to demonstrate that you’re capable of thinking beyond the boundaries of the conclusion you’ve already decided is correct.Because “bla bla bla no self” isn’t an argument. It’s just autism .

There is reddit which has a non-duality subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/ I dislike it personally because it's so big that conversations are anonymous and I find myself arguing the same points with silly people over and over again. Also I got banned accross all my accounts for accidental ban evasion after a subreddit mod banned me on one accounts for disagreeing with them while I've been a user of their site for 16 years since I was 15 years old so they can get fucked it is one of my personal life missions to create a superior competitor product and bankrupt them. What's great about Reddit though is the breath of the topics it covers. You can get laid on Reddit and you see some of the hottest girls in the world posting themselves naked so I have to give them a lot of credit. It also has the highest ressource on red pill content in the internet, it was where it came from and the posts on it are actual high quality. The red pill youtubers just complain about women and blame feminism for all their personal life problems, it's a massive bastardization of the content. Purple pill is a great concept and subreddit to browse through. I had a discussion about it with one of the godfathers of the Red Pill Rollo Tomassi 6 years ago but I think even then I was more advanced than him in his understanding and he was a bit of boomer who didn't believe in what I was talking about

We can talk about it in 200 years, dm me and I'll show you this post. Don't die before then. Perhaps in 50 million years we will be dead but now we are looping back to enlightenment and nonduality that death is ultimately illusory. I fear that you are using spirituality as a cope for personal passivity though. We must be more like Thor and personally lead mankind towards peace and prosperity in my book. Everyone has the power to become an impactful leader. Absolutely my friend, our victory is inevitable and whoever our enemies are should tremble as their fate shall not be death but labelling themselves as enemies of mankind as they become immortal pariahs. I think literally not joking with you guys we will have the technology to bring back Hitler to life and put him in jail, checkmate evil. You can run but you can't hide.

I appreciate your concern, but I can't invalidate my direct experience. This is not depersonalization or escape or anything like that. I feel more vibrant than ever. Mellowmarsh was right, it's not possible to debate this stuff. Each to his own. I know neo advaita or whatever it's called gets a bad rap, and I'm sure there are some people to blame for that. But the kind of radical nonduality that Jim Newman, Tony Parsons and others impart, is definitely the real deal.

Hojo is like the poor man's nonduality enthusiast lol, what he says doesn't really make sense most times. At least to me idk about you guys. If you don't believe in people Hojo then who are you? I don't like to do eye contact too much I feel like it's too intense and we get too close to eachother when we look into eachothers eyes it's like it divolves the barriers between consciousnesses. I like my individuality. With certain women it's intoxicating though.

@Hojo Are you getting into nonduality?

There’s no such thing as nonduality, because nonduality is not a thing. Unmistakably.

I am curious, how have you personally integrated nonduality and God realization ? It seems to me that the God realization people underestimate the importance of a permanent cessation of the separate sense of self. At the same time I sense the nonduality people can also still learn something from the God realization guys, ie perhaps there's some real deep validity to certain peak mystical states etc.

You don't think the actual context (nonduality vs God realization) of most of the original disagreements, was slightly overlooked here ? Seems like the elephant in the room to me.

I'm not saying Leo didn't make any mistakes in the way that he handled disagreements. What I'm saying is that most of the focus here has been placed on just that, ie how disagreements were handled. From what I can tell there wasn't that much focus on the actual context of the disagreements. Which pretty much seems to be: nonduality vs God realization (dating all the way back to the days of Nahm) As a personal example: Recently I really got into radical nonduality, especially the work of Jim Newman. For me it really feels like a big opening of Grace is happening that will take me all the way. Leo told me in no uncertain terms: "It's just not the Full Monty." Now, it might take me all the way, it might not. I'm still open to learning, and I still do learn from Leo. Am I now going to fight Leo on this specific topic. What would be the point ? Just follow ur own resonance at the time. It's kinda simple really. (So much unnecessary drama)

So you saying you and Carl Richard didn't have the same level of integrity as Zurew, ie to sacrifice membership here. I think Elliott might be right, perhaps there was some kind of ego battle he had with Leo. From listening to @Carl-Richard, it sounds like the root of a lot of the disagreements, dating back to the days of Nahm, was mostly about nonduality vs God realization. And even just going through the spirituality section now, you can kind of still spot the two camps. My sense is that some of the God realization guys tend to underestimate radical nonduality. But I'll be the first to admit that there's always more to explore. (Perhaps Nahm and others still had something to learn from Leo, but hey he seemed convinced otherwise, so God bless him where ever he may be. His practical life advice though just seemed way off at times. Not sure if him or his followers had integrated as much as they thought at the time.)