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@Moksha Thanks for the response. Is it fair to say "the absolute" has no agenda and is unconcerned whether we are holy fools, un-awakened, or awakened? All roles are equal? For some reason, those of us on this forum feel a compulsion to awaken and that is our dharma? I get the feeling the Holy Fool and the Idiot Savant are the pinnacle achievement. They enjoy life and accept Maya. If I awaken, I will simply be a Holy Fool who knows he's a Holy Fool and embraces it and therefore I will be "the absolute?" It is a strange loop for a Holy Fool to realize he is a Holy Fool and then be "the absolute" as a Holy Fool. I guess I'm just asking what is the point of awakening? It's perfectly ok to remain un-awakened right? We all have our dharma? If we pursue awakening for egoic purposes or to end suffering, is that greedy and these motivations will derail us?

I find Jung to be a pretty deep and awakened thinker also, but maybe i'm projecting my own biases on him, i don't know. I especially find the idea of shadow work pretty helpful, and his metaphysics also seem to align with the metaphysics of mysticism, if we can read into him. But on a deeper account, i don't even know who i am, let alone knowing who Jung is ??

It is my personal experience. I can do the Eckhart Tolle thing and sit for hours on a park bench, with bliss flowing through my being by cutting off the self-contraction and resting in what is. Which I often do. I was doubting that when it started (it started before all insights into the nature of being were fully in place), doubting it just like you. And then it didn't stop, didn't get broken, even by really heavy blows. It has established its own momentum and force and continued ripening. Then later what I really am got confirmed by certain states/realizations beyond any possible doubt. If my character tries to do its old thing of grasping certain experiences (or avoiding others) and suffering while doing so, there is literally the choice to believe it or rest in Awakened Awareness (which brings its own bliss, and more that the sought for experience), and it is spotted very fast. Can my "character-thing" be improved? For sure it can. It has a long hang-over of self-contraction. But its ability to really reestablish the self-contraction (which blocks the flow of bliss/openness of Awakened Awareness states) with real belief in it and on an ongoing basis is structurally gone. Well, I am not going to convince you just by writing. But not writing it is also not an option. Ken Wilber once wrote that the obligation one has if one sees is to tell, or else the soul gets very sick. I would have no problem leaving the forum behind. Although I enjoy writing, I got many nice things to besides, and wouldn't miss it. But it would be the wrong thing to do. So, I kindly ask you to be at least agnostic to what I write. Be also honest why you wrote "be honest". I have the feeling there is something mildly annoying you in my writing. I can only invite you to try the path I walked, and described in many posts (Mahamudra/Dzogchen, mainly Pointing out the Great Way), or any other path, and see for yourself. There is a risk of establishing self-limiting beliefs when there is too much doubt in the reachability of the fruits of the path. Literally every tradition confirms this as the potential of every sentient being. I will continue posting mainly these old texts (because they show the universality of these realizations over the centuries). Sometimes telling about "ones own" experience is ok, but if one does it all the time, it can easily become self-importance boosting, or can come across as such. Bon voyage Water by the River

That is kundalini, chill, very normal, very healthy. Your consciousness was too high for your body so it had to level up. So the intelligence in your body was awakened and that is how kundalini feels.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=bliss&author=Water by the River I know. What kind of idiot would post a search link to his own posts about the topic of bliss And probably some won't like the following statements (because they implicitely nothing else than a call to action for practice/meditation of whatever form, because suffering can end): When resting in ones True Nature in certain awakened states, the psychological resistance (to what is) of suffering is gone. And these states can go from peak state, to plateau, to permanent. Bliss and love and compassion flow then from ones True Core. Every being, depending on its Karma, has at least to potential to do and realize that, this life or the next. At some point of the path one gets the choice to do exactly that, and one wouldn't contract again, because it becomes a choice. Sure one can get sad, or feel pain, hunger, whatever, but no resistance to it, no contraction, no closing down. "One" stays open, no resistance or psychological suffering added on top. It blows through ones Being like the wind. Adi Da called the separate self "self-contraction", which can be relaxed with love. Sellling Water by the River Ken Wilber on that: Ken Wilber, One Taste: "Monday, March 24. With the awakening of constant consciousness, you becomesomething of a divine schizophrenic, in the popular sense of “split-minded,” because you have access to both the Witnessand the ego. You are actually “whole-minded,” but it sounds like it’s split, because you are aware of the constant Witness or Spirit in you, and you are also perfectly aware of themovie of life, the ego and all its ups and downs. So you still feel pain and suffering and sorrow, but they can no longer convince you of their importance—you are no longer the victim of life, but its Witness. In fact, because you are no longer afraid of your feelings,you can engage them with much greater intensity. The movie of life becomes more vivid and vibrant, precisely because you are no longer grasping or avoiding it, and thus no longer trying to dull or dilute it. You no longer turn the volume down. You might even cry harder, laugh louder, jump higher. Choiceless awareness doesn’t mean you cease to feel; it means you feel fully, feel deeply, feel to infinity itself, and laugh and cry and love until it hurts. Life jumps right off the screen, and you are one with all of it, because you don’t recoil. If you are having a dream, and you think it’s real, it can get very scary. Say you are dreaming that you are tightropewalking across Niagara Falls. If you fall off, you plunge to your death. So you are walking very slowly, very carefully.Then suppose you start lucid dreaming, and you realize that it’s just a dream. What do you do? Become more cautious and careful? No, you start jumping up and down on the tightrope, you do flips, you bounce around, you have a ball—precisely because you know it isn’t real. When you realize it’s a dream, you can afford to play. The same thing happens when you realize that ordinary life is just a dream, just a movie, just a play. You don’t become more cautious, more timid, more reserved. You start jumping up and down and doing flips, precisely because it’sall a dream, it’s all pure Emptiness. You don’t feel less, you feel more—because you can afford to. You are no longer afraid of dying, and therefore you are not afraid of living.You become radical and wild, intense and vivid, shocking and silly. You let it all come pouring through, because it’s all your dream. Life then assumes its true intensity, its vivid luminosity, itsradical effervescence. Pain is more painful and happiness is happier; joy is more joyous and sorrow is even sadder. It all comes radiantly alive to the mirror-mind, the mind that doesn’t grasp or avoid, but simply witnesses the play, and therefore can afford to play, even as it watches. What would motivate you if you saw everything as the dream of your own highest Self? What would actually move you in this playful dream world? Everything in the dream is basically fun, at some deep level, except for this: when you see your friends suffering because they think the dream is real, you want to relieve their suffering, you want them to wake up, too. Watching them suffer is not fun. And so a deep and powerful compassion arises in the heart of the awakened ones, and they seek, above all else, to awaken others—and thus relieve them from the sorrow and the pity,the torment and the pain, the terror and the anguish that comes from taking with dreadful seriousness the passing dream of life. So you are a divine schizophrenic, you are “split-minded” in the sense that you are simultaneously in touch with both the pure Witness and the world of the ego-film. But that really means you are actually “whole-minded,” because these two worlds are really not-two. The ego is just the dream of the Witness, the film that the Witness creates out of its own infinite plenitude, simply so it will have something to watch at the movies. At that point the entire play arises within your own constant consciousness. There is no inside and no outside, no in here versus out there. The nondual universe of One Taste arises as a spontaneous gesture of your own true nature. You can taste the sun and swallow the moon, and centuries fit in the palm of your hand. The pure I-I, the greatI AMness, breathes to infinity and creates a Kosmos as the Song of its very Self, and oceans of compassion fall as tears from your very own Original Face. Last night I saw the reflection of the moon in a cool clear crystal pond, and nothing else happened."

Feelings are flowing words are rolling, transmission of the divine, allowing, without judging or over-analyzing, at the same time staying focused with the intention to keep the divine channel flowing, trusting myself as the highest authority of greatest wisdom that comes through my vessel from my higher self, my spiritual allies from higher dimensions and divine. This brings me joy, creative process becomes enjoyable, it is enjoyable to type these words and that is a gift that I am able to experience creativity in such beautiful way, creating for the sake of experiencing joy and sharing the beauty of that creativity with the world as a fountain of overflowing self love. Writing is a beautiful skill that I enjoy that has been devalued because of the fast-paced, information overloaded, instant gratification world that most people live in. Also, the relationship with the act of typing the words on the keyboard at the computer has been devalued because of so much of this kind of format information is available. The Internet is overloaded with typed up text of information. There is so much of it freely available, written by millions of people with different skill levels that even I, the one who has greatest wisdom have not approached sharing my most profound insights through this medium of typing text with a keyboard. Today is different, as I am typing these words I realize that I truly enjoy writing text in this way, at the computer, on my keyboard without pretending to enjoy, but really enjoying it. I can clearly see the obstacles that have been preventing me from writing so enjoyably and beautifully in the past. A new joy and excitement has just been awakened in me while writing this short journal entry. I am going to start writing and sharing myself through this type of medium that I truly enjoy. I will inspire others to write by teaching about unique value of every human being who has access to the computer and can write in this way. The key here is self-love, I am doing this because it brings me joy, I integrate my life's profound and powerful experiences and everything in between by telling my stroy with typed up text on a keyboard. I am also called to develop a loving relationship with the keyboard and the monitor, sitting position and being aware of how my body feels in the process. Making sure my hands are comfortable and it's painless to type, making sure I am aware of my breath, that I am well hydrated and drinking water as needed, that the temperature in the room is not too hot or cold, that all of my body's needs and wants are met so that it is enjoyable to write at the computer.

Really? First, know the sensations, emotions and thoughts that accompany all this. After all, this is really all about you. Even if I were God-realized or awakened or whatever, it'd still just be you reading this and, ideally, looking for more meaning and understanding about "you"... you the being, you the identified, you the machine. Let's take a second to look at what you posted... 1. "Seems to be more lower conscious types and less higher conscious types." I know you're proud, or at least content, with your contributions here, but look again. If you're complaining, and that is what you're doing, what are you bringing to the situation... higher consciousness or lower consciousness? Is this an effort by some i's to hang on to a tradition? Can you use this event to increase the quality of your posting? Maybe you need a break or a different venue to stimulate something new but it wont be change...it'll just be new stimulation showing you new material then with the possibility of change. And, I have to step out so I'll come back later. Let me know if you have any other questions because, honestly, even though you are sincere, which is beneficial, there's nothing really new or earth shattering in your comment. And why not? Because inner transformation is an Aim of esoteric study and what you did was complain and pontificate a little. That's not very conscious. Or transformational.

It's true the absolute sometimes chooses form solitude after realizing itself. Often though, it teaches and serves through the awakened form, to refine its experience through other forms.

Leo is not the most awakened human ever. It's possible he has reached the highest awakening. But it was temporary. His baseline or usual consciousness is NOT equal to his highest awakening. I don't intend to say what he spiritually accomplished is useless. I myself am interested in what he awakened to. I just need to clarify things.

War is a result of selfishness. The awakened has suffered so much from their own selfishness that they awaken to God. And then they realize the selfishness only brings pain in the end. It might bring some temporary pleasure, but selfishness can never be satisfied. It is the desire for this illusory satisfaction that is the cause for all the devilry in this world. But ultimate liberation will never be found there. This what an advanced civilization would look like. We are centuries away from that, if we don't destroy ourselves first. @Someone here your nature is to dream. You are an Infinite Mind. Dreaming is all there is.. And as far as reality - if God couldn't suffer as a mortal, God couldn't learn the lesson of selfishness. God has to experience what it's like to be mortal in order to ultimately realize it is God. It's a matter of forgetting and then remembering. It is a matter of understanding. God has to fully understand itself. It is a Mind.

An awakened mystic is beyond all stages. It is only when they go back into the dream that they climb the ladder. But they have already reached the top and came back down to embrace the climb.

Ego: Imagine always wearing these sunglasses that fuck up everything you see, which fuck up everything you know. Everything you think and do. Everything you feel and believe. Everything that makes your aware. Imagine wearing those sobriety goggles but infinitely trickier. Awakened God: The eventually realization that you are wearing these trick goggles, and really Knowing. Realizing that everything you thought you knew before was utter garbage. Of course, there are stages of insanely powerful realizations in the process. To explain infinity would take infinitely long to explain. To reduce as simply as I can. The Ultimate Realization. Because you are living your life on a concept of the truth not the truth. You can't fit all 5 oceans into a shot glass. Now, concepts can be incredibly powerful... like the concepts related to science and technology. But they are nothing compared to higher level concepts, that lead to higher concepts, and so on... that eventually lead to truth. To simplify: You could, most people do, but you will be missing out. Ever heard of blind leading the blind? That is enlightenment in a nutshell. It would be useful not to think of it as a goal or destination, but a Knowing. A major limitation we have is that we don't know the difference between truth and falseness. AT all. Imagine Jane has made these amazing realizations about love and shares them with John. John isn't a total idiot and he realizes..."Hey" there is some Truth here I am going to keep that with me. And yes, John now has some Truth. The problem is... he didn't have the same realizations that Jane had. You see, so it is a partial truth. A weaker and deluded version. So now you have some partial Truth that is filled with Bullshit. Now John starts talking about these amazing revelations with friends with his own shit-Truth concoction and the friends will then create their own Shitty Truth. Remember when I motioned about the Trick-Goggles that are composed of near infinite deception? This is one feature of deception. So, when you say it is stripping of all beliefs. It is true, but at the same time it is very deceptive. You have to be able to really know what that means. You could Say EGO is nearly infinite deception. But unless you can really understand that you are going to be deceived. Even If I tell you that Ego is like a set of super tricky googles that completely distort your perception, causing you to limit your consciousness of God and it was one of the highest Truths you could put into words. You should not accept it as True. Because it is not True from your perspective. You did not make the realizations about it that I did, you did not conceptualize it like I did, you did not make the deductions that I did, you did not contemplate it like I did. IT IS NOT TRUE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE! Even if what I tell you gives you a magical feeling, The most magical feeling, like stardust flew into your face and it completely changed your life. You should not completely accept it as true. IT STILL IS NOT TRUE! That is the great deception. If you are close to something that is True, the EGO will weaken and you will feel amazing, better than you have ever felt. But before you can enjoy it. The EGO will conceptualize it in its own way that Is not true. You experienced truth and the EGO rearranged it for you. So that in essence even the concept of enlightenment is an idea that someone's ego fucked up. You are getting a Shitty Truth here. Some truth mixed with a giant pile of steamy hot shit. People have no idea what enlightenment is, they just don't. Your realizations about enlightenment and suffering are worth much more than what anybody has ever taught you about the subject. It is ok to learn about them, just don't place any value of them unless you have had your own cognitions of magnitude even then... beware of booby traps. I dunno, what do you think?

Infinite Consciousness/Reality (I don't use God though technically correct because it creates more misunderstandings in this context than it solves. Like blowing up the Ego to God-sized dimensions, which the exactly opposite route than transcending the separate self/Ego) is awake throughout. IT is aware, and is what you really are. "It" (True You) is nothing specific (despite containg/being everything), but empty Awareness. Totally empty/nothing, but aware, and containing all form. But arising in it is what you think yourself to be right now (I-thoughts and I-feelings), that you don't see/view fast enough to transcend. You see "through" them, like coloured lenses. These lenses of perceptions (I-thoughts and I-feelings, separate-self arisings, making you feel and think you are a body or mind WITHIN Reality, but somehow separate from the boundless Reality) are what cloud your understanding of the Nature of Infinite Consciousness/Reality. When you learn to view (and cut) these arisings fast enough (long training process normally), awakened or nondual states can appear. Then the locatedness of "you" drops, making You the whole field. And other effects (infinite, eternal/always here, empty/impersonal). The three points above are at least in my perspective more useful to describe the process (than asking what wakes up, God or Ego), because: God or Infinite Consciousness doesn't awake. It is always awake/aware, can't be different. The Ego doesn't really exist (EXist=stand out from Raelity). So it can't wake up. It the sum/Gestalt of the appearance of I-thoughts, I-feelings that arise in True You. Once your mindstream/perspective awakenes, these arisings are no longer believed and (if wanted) totally cut off. Your Ego/character becomes literally something like moskito buzzing around in you. And if the character becomes annoying/suffering, you can "chase" it away like an annoying insect. The volume/believeability of its voice goes to "lower than 5%" of what is was before. That is just a pointer. It can only be really understood what it happens. The tools you use to imagine that state (necessarily including I-thoughts) are those that prevent the awakend state in which you could understand it. So the path is Meditation, Trekchö/Cut-Off every thought, Neti Neti, get empty, change to awakened states. And let these states refine and empty your Identity towards Truth. Because what clouds your mindstream, what you think you are, the I-feelings and I-thoughts, are not what you really are. You are much more. But you can only authentically say that when you are in awakened states. Before having stabilized these nondual states, thinking you are everything is just wishful thinking. It doesn't end suffering. Because it is not a change of thinking/concepts. It is not deciding or believing to no longer belief concepts (That "stripping" would be more concepts). it is learning to cut any arising concept/belief/I-thought/I-feeling FAST enough so that your state changes to awakened and nondual states. Thinking to want to no longer belief or stripping of beliefs/ideologies is itself a thought process, not the cutting of all thought arisings including that one. These are very specific states that have counterparts in the bodily energies for example. Enlightenment is a state shift towards nondual, boundless, and empty/impersonal (at least if there is intention for cutting the mindstream if wanted, for example for getting the bliss of the primordial Consciousness). At other times, the character can do its thing. But the body-mind has become an object doing its thing within YOU, Reality itself. (1) If it wouldn't remove suffering, what should make you stay in these enlightened states? You would continue grasping and searching for evermore experiences, like every unenlighened being. (2) Also, you will know the nature of Absolute Reality beyond any doubt. That includes what You are, what Reality is, what every arising/form/phemenon is in its essence, and that you are immortal. And nothing else can be anything different than THAT. Since anything there could be, in any dimension or realm, would just be more "form" or content arisings within Infinite Consciousness. But what would (2) be worth if you still suffer? You would search and grasp for some other experiences... Which obviously the enlightened ones stopped doing. All of them, at all times. They didn't grasp for experiences, and didn't suffer when they didn't get certain experiences. They for sure had preferences, could feel pain, but they didn't grasp or "psychologically-suffering-wise" resist what is. She who is centered in the Tao can go where she wishes, without danger. She perceives the universal harmony, even amid great pain, because she has found peace in her heart. - Tao Te Ching Since every separate being (or better: perspective) is at its essence Infinite Consciousness/Reality itself, every mindstream will end up enlightened. The game is to cast the formless out into form, explore the infinities of infinities that can be manifested (God will never run out of these), and come back home. It is the nature of Reality. It is apparently what Reality does. Love is what throws it all out, and pulls it all back, and its also the essence of every form. That btw. is not fancy mental musings, but actual Reality, potentially directly experienceable by every(!) being in certain awakened states. Water by the River PS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrival_(film) "During the evacuation, Donnelly expresses his love for Banks. They talk about life choices and whether he would change them if he could see the future. Banks knows that she will agree to have a child with him despite knowing their fate: that Hannah will die from an incurable disease and Donnelly will leave them both after she reveals that she knew this."

Thanks for the responses. Since the ego doesn't exist and God is everything including you and me, who is there to be enlightened or awakened? I'm going to try to ask all the questions in one post. 1. What is being awakened God or the Ego. 2. If I'm one with everything and everyone, and there's no distinction between me and a tree because that's just a distinction the mind created, and the false sense of self recognizes this, why do I need to get enlightened or awakened to that fact if I can intellectually understand this and live my life accordingly. 3. I understand enlightenment is a stripping of all beliefs, ideologies concepts etc. and everything the ego believes itself to be, and is our true nature, why can't I just empty myself of all those concepts and become enlightened. I'm using the word "I" for the sake of clarity here. 4. Is the end of suffering the only "benefit" to acquiring the enlightenment state; and I'm not saying the pursuit to enlightenment should have any benefits because that suggests there's an "I" to gain something, but I notice a lot of "end of suffering" statements when explaining what enlightenment is. 5. If everything is perfect and there's an intelligent design at play here, and God put itself to sleep so it can awaken to itself, why do we need to pursue enlightenment and to recognize there's no Self if it's part of God's plan to trick itself into being human so it can experience itself through the ego. Is that part of the plan, to see if it can awaken to itself. If so, then what, and if not, why doesn't it just stay unenlightened to have the experience. These questions might seem a bit silly to some; and it's not that I really need to know the answers because I've surrendered and have trust in the process that's unfolding and know that I'm ok no matter what happens in my experience, but I'm just curious and would like to explore myself from other's perspectives. Thank you.

I'm not doubting what you experienced but given what you've tried to explain above its clear that whatever the experience was, was not very deep and has left you in a deep state of confusion and incoherence. If however, it was in fact a deep experience then you haven't fully understood to the point where you can convey what you mean in a clear and concise way. This could be because you aren't educated enough to, or that you simply don't want to, or maybe you even think that speaking the way you do is some kind of awakened speak which normies can't grasp and you enjoy that, idk. Whatever the case, I suggest you take the time out to really contemplate your experiences and take the time to learn to convey it clearly and concisely with words if you want to express it to others in that way. Of course you don't have to if you don't want to but if you dont, you will go on feeling misunderstood and ostracized by those who you express these experiences to and that's no fun. Trust me. I spent many years doing the zen master speak and it did nothing but isolate me from the world. Once I stopped with that game and spent the time to learn how to properly express my experiences, then and only then could conversations occur about them. People who normally weren't interested in my psychedelic experiences for instance began asking questions and thinking about these things for themselves. Not because I laid on some incoherent zen master philosophy on them but because I understood my experience so thoroughly that I could express it with words anybody could understand. It changed everything for me and I think it will for you too. Cheers

Two out of three isn't too bad, Yimpa. But it's still a twisted and inverted view. I'm going to get utterly granular for a little while, so bear with me… As for "There’s either no end to thoughts and beliefs, or there’s no end to your infinite nature." I should point out that realizing effective (as in 24/7 authentic enlightening activity) meditation, cessation of thoughts and beliefs is precisely what occurs. Therefore there is an end to thoughts and beliefs because the psychological apparatus isn't used to adapt to delusion based on one's personal views. That's cessation in terms of subtle spiritual adaption. But we cannot separate "thoughts and beliefs" vis a vis "infinite nature" because the nature of both is ultimately the same. It's the view of "either/or" is what is tripping up the fact and power of reality in one's personal existence, because it is imposing a dualistic view (that destroys potential) onto what isn't dual in reality. It's the dualistic view itself which creates and perpetuates karmic evolution and its delusional existential paradigms. This is not a philosophical discussion because the truth is that when we create or own dual reality even by a universally and ancient human consensus, it's still a deluded view. That's ok, because that's how it is (for the deluded). But even for those awakened and actualized to transcendent reality in the midst of delusion, it is possible (and necessary) to actually see reality. Knowing reality and being able to describe it in words isn't enough. The ancient saying is, "If you know but cannot act on that knowledge, it is the same as not knowing." The context of my writing is the deliberate expression of the fact that nondual (selfless) perception itself constitutes transcendence on the spot. Nondual in this context pertains to not employing views of self and other in terms of adapting to conditions. Self/other is a dualistic view. Spiritual adaption to delusional creation doesn't require action outside of the norm. It's simply a matter of seeing. When one sees reality, one responds to reality, In responding to reality, karma doesn't exist, so it isn't perpetuated in terms of the person because the perspective of enlightening activity is not relative to the person, it's relative to potential, which is inherent in the situation. That's why one does not depend on one's own power to adapt spiritually (selflessly) to conditions. Deluded conditions are seen as reality by perceiving potential instead of things (things being relative to personal views, thoughts, ideas, and beliefs). That one's personal views aren't employed to adapt to conditions is why it's selfless. Selflessness isn't a moral issue, it's just how it works. When one sees reality, it is because one sees potential (nature) instead of things. In seeing potential instead of things, one can use the spiritual (selfless nonoriginated) potential inherent in the situation itself to transcend karmic bondage while in the midst of delusion unbeknownst to anyone. It's totally natural. Since reality is inherent in delusion, there's no change. Expressing the Changeless in the midst of changes is the accomplishment of enlightening beings because they see Change. Those who see Change do not go along with its changes. And that, is transcendence. In terms of "your" infinite nature, it's neither infinite nor yours (by my definition— and I'll say why). I'm only getting unnecessarily "granular" in order to express the truth of the fact that "your" nature has never begun. That's not a word-game, nor is it philosophical speculation. The term nonorigination points directly to the nature of awareness (that's what you are calling "yours."That's perfectly proper, but I'm making a special point here. Awareness, the quality of awake, the spark of life itself, does not exist because it's not dependent on creation, whereas creation is dependent on "our" nature to exist. This statement is only a way of discussing what is really one and the same. The highest teachings of all authentic wisdom traditions express the fact that the nature of reality and the nature of delusion is the same. That's why it is possible to transcend karmic (cyclic) bondage from within delusion itself by virtue of delusion. What else would one work with? Enlightening activity is simply a matter of seeing nondifferentiation where ordinary people see duality. Real humans (enlightening beings) do not have a mind for duality, so they don't see it. It's not a problem, though, because it's the truth. Deluded people don't have a problem either, because it's as false as their seeing is. So it's really a matter of whatever works. Nonorigination is another way of saying "not created." Therefore, "your" selfless nature has no beginning nor end. Now to say that "no end" is the same as infinite is a good point, but I like to save the distinction of "endless infinity" for the realm of creation, ie: the realm of thoughts and beliefs, because it's true. There is no end to them. Nonorigination, on the other hand, is beginningless. That is not to say far away in time or space— but simply due to the fact that it has never begun. And THAT, is "your" nature. It's called inconceivability, the same way that everyday ordinary nonpsychological awareness is inconceivable— and for the same reason. The only reason it's real is because it's not created. And why is that? Creation is not primal, but to say that means it comes "after" is not valid. There is no "before" or "after" in terms of reality. Therefore it can be manipulated. One can only say that the creative aspect constitutes duality, and duality isn't real, because it's not undifferentiated essence; it's only "apparent." So, not to be too picky but still needing to make that distinction and saying why is the only reason I seem to be such a ball-buster here. Actually you are describing the essence of both delusional and absolute natures in one sentence, but you are intending to separate them, so that's why I said "two out of three." As for one person monopolizing the truth… have you seen your nature lately? Let me put it another way, rephrased from above: if you know the truth, but can't act on it, you don't know the truth. How then can you monopolize it? If you cannot monopolize it (because you don't know or cannot act on it), why worry that someone else can? It's just a bad habit, Yimpa. If one wants to penetrate the subtleties, one must be commensurate with the nature of the subtleties. And since the truth of reality is not only the nature of nonorigination (transcendent knowing), which is nondifferentiated, there's nothing to monopolize nor is there monopolizing by selfless adaptivity. It's neither here nor there in reality. So, I wouldn't worry about one person monopolizing the truth, unless it were you… There is an ancient sickness, as old as sin itself. It is the sickness of appearing to know when one does not know. Real knowledge is power based on seeing potential, which is not relative to the person. What would be monopolized by one person in terms of the truth of reality being neither conditional nor absolute, hmmmm? ed note: whooops~ change first word from "one" to "two"; add quote (4th paragraph); add "What else would one work with?" in 7th paragraph; add last half of 8th paragraph

Maybe they have fear/concern that ingesting the substances might make them 'lose' their "state of consciousness". I guess as much people like to idealise this people, as 'Awakened' as people might say they are, they still live within certain limitations (even though they might be imagined). For example it is true that Sadhguru asks always to sit in a certain posture when he is going to give talks or interviews. This way of sitting facilitates certain alignment/energy. So he is still using certain tools to facilitate feeling/being in a certain way. In the same way, when ingesting a powerful chemical, some of this gurus already might be guessing that if they take it they might not be able to maintain their state of consciousness (assuming these Gurus are actually residing in a high state of consciousness, and are just not bullshitting us, which I think a lot of them do Btw) If they intuit that taking this chemicals will produce some kind of inbalance, they will want to avoid taking it. (Notice that in most schools of Yoga is not advised to take coffee 4 before any kind of practice, since coffee already produces certain alteration and 'blockage' in the sensitivity/energy system). Overall I would say most of them are just scared of psychedelics, kind of like most of society

Is it just me or is there more and more low quality nonsense on this forum - particularly on this sub? I've been active here, pretty consistently for the past 4/5 years, and I'd say that the quality of the content has been dropping steadily over the years. My guess is that more and more 'low consciousness' folks are joining the forum and more and more 'high consciousness' folks are leaving, or are semi-active, kind of in the background. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I feel like the balance is not quite there in this case. Every other member posting on this sub is now 'God-realized' or 'the most awakened one' or whatever else. I've seen members hijack the entire sub, rambling about how enlightened they are, what things are or are not, etc. And I get it. You have some mystical experiences, a few realizations, you take some psychedelics, you meditate a bit... and now you want the whole world to know how enlightened you are. I know the feel, bro. Been there. And I certainly have done or said some stupid shit on here myself. But you gotta tame that beast, bro. You gotta be smarter than that. You must know your place. I have respect for certain members here, even though I wouldn't say I'm particularly close to anyone. But I value the opinion of some. To various extents. I also find zero value in what some other member have to share or suggest. Simply because they've proven themselves to be immature, underdeveloped and 'asleep'. They are usually equipped with loads of fake confidence too, which makes things even more cringy. Where is genuine curiosity? Genuine desire for wisdom and awakening? Love? Communion? Unity? I'm not saying there is zero of that on this forum, but it's far less prevalent than all the other nonsense. What I'm trying to suggest is: don't post just any stupid shit that crosses your half awake mind. If you're going to state something, make it good and solid. Make it so that it makes sense to those who are reading. Make it so it has a tail and a head. Don't just ramble foolishly, jerking off in everyone's faces. And if you're going to ask for guidance, advice or help... do it with humility and open-mindedness. Don't ask if you think you already know the answer. Don't ask if you are unable to listen. Work on basic communication skills before you set out to seek enlightenment and whatnot. Be a decent human being first. Then you can maybe try being God lol. I used to like this place. I still kind of do. Don't turn it into a shitfest now, ok? Thanks.

@michaelcycle00 through your sense of sight? Thats imagination @Julian gabrielplease be honest, did you really awakened to solipsism or did you adopted the ideas of solipsism, the details of this concept?

Either you're fully awakened or not. There is no "most awakened person" award. Anyone who thinks he is...is not awakened. Anyone who thinks this is some kind of contest or competition is an egomaniac. (This goes for Leo, Ken Wilber and other unawakened or partially awakened people.) They don't get it...the ego takes interesting detours while seeking. There are probably thousands of fully awakened people who...get it. They're not out there competing in the public eye to earn themselves a Most Awakened Being award...because they...just get it. They also know what will help others awaken and what won't. Forget about Leo for a second, though: if you think you're special BECAUSE you follow Leo and think you are PRIVY to something unique...you have a much bigger problem than Leo does. You need to question yourself and ask what it is you're really after: to bolster your ego or to awaken.

Once you reach this level, you realize the punch line to calling yourself the most awakened person on earth.

This is very important to understand!!! Not all people, if not most people will ever have contact with god on psychedelics, it is given by god!!!!!!!!!!! His personal experiences that he talked about, including god/limitless intelligence. It can only be understood and be given credit by people like me/us. Leo's purpose is given by "god" to be a guru/initiator for those that have been seeking on some level, he might be the only reason/initiator for some people that will be awakened by psychedelics or atleast reach a new level in understanding. Remember it's not a coincidence that like 90% of people if not more on earth have no clue what medicine like "LSD" does to them, they're so unconscious that they view it as a fun drug. You're probably 0.00000001% of population , if you have experienced and understand that you're god and that everything is inside you. Just as jesus has said "the kingdom of god/heaven is inside you". If you have reached this level then you can call yourself the most awakened person on earth. Everything is the doing of god, your thoughts are so powerful that they literally change the world around you!!!!

Right, that's why I recommended he disregard the voices, except to the extent that they point him inward to his true nature. The focus is on unity of mind, informed by realization. People with serious mental conditions generally need professional support, ideally from someone that has awakened and integrated their insights, rather than cowboying it on their own. Biological and deeply seated psychological factors may be challenging, but it's remarkable how healing direct realization can be.

Every awake being is the most awakened being on the planet. Nothing comes into being and nothing moves. But the only awakened being is the awake one. Language is not sufficient unfortunately to get this across.

I mean a lot of people are genetically superior to you in terms of spiritual brain strucutre and they could simply take psychedelics too. So what is so special in your case? Do you think you have the desire for the truth more than any being on this Earth, and through psychedelics you even surpassed all masters?