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@Leo Gura I know that I am nothingness, just conciousness and everything around me is nothingness too. So therefore I am everything that I am experiencing in this present moment because the present moment is the only thing that exists, yet time does not exist but our egos have created it. I see the value of enlightenment and its benefits, the end of suffering...but I also know I can spend my whole life pursuing enlightenment and may never achieve it. I've also been told by other people that enlightenment doesn't exist because if I am nothing so what is there to improve upon? What is there to change and make better? What is personal development?...if I am nothingness... I know these things intellectually...I just wish I could experience it on a spiritual level. I just wish I could feel this way all the time and just shut all feelings and emotions off. I know I give meaning to the things around me but life is so hard right now. It's so easy to get sucked into the negativity. This experience was the relief I needed. Earlier in the day before the meditation class my mom had a seizure and I found her laying on the couch unconscious with blood dripping from her mouth, and I had to call 911. It was one of scariest moments I have ever experienced. My dad has stage 4 colon cancer and has been suffering for the last 3 years. I broke off a relationship with a guy this week that was everything I ever wanted in a relationship (including he wanted to seek enlightenment) yet he wanted to use me for sex, without the commitment. (I love myself too much to be treated this way). And I'm trying to start my own business in the holistic field and I'm barely scraping by. When I was shut off....it just felt so great...the freedom was there...and I was grateful for what I have. Does enlightenment allow you to be in this state permanently? Despite the fact that everything in my life is the way that is ( and yes I know I perceive it that way, and I don't have to) there are benefits....I have like a huge amount of free time to meditate and seek enlightenment and my life purpose. I just want to be motivated.

@Leo Gura Leo, I'm starting to pierce the veil this is an excerpt from an ongoing dialogue that I've been having with a friend. Your work came right on time I'm not sure if my ontology is mixing in with what I'm about to say, but I see everything as follows: Awareness is the ultimate. It's the end-all be-all. I don't know the nature of this "awareness" other than what it absolutely has to be in my thinking, which is that it allows for everything! It is the most pure, and clear thing that could possibly exist. I don't understand the depths of its perfection, but I can get an experiential hold on the fact that it is perfectly pure. I don't understand this "nothingness" Ilona. And I know, necessarily, that it can't be known, because that would turn it into an object of consciousness, which wouldn't be it because whatever possible way I could conceive of it would arise in consciousness and necessarily not be "it". I see that no separation exists. Whatever this nothingness is, it is without limit. I was thinking today about the thought "why is this nothingness even here?" That was probably the most profound thought that I've ever had in my life. Why does this nothingness exist, that allows for all of these supposed "objects" to exist? What "law" made this nothingness exist in the first place?! Why is it here???? There's nothing left to figure out regarding what all of this is. It is perfect meaninglessness. The most sublime perfect meaninglessness that could only exist because of the games we play as humans. The beauty of this nothingness is manifested in the complete and utter spectrum of all of the possible human experiences. Once again, I haven't digested what all of this means, but that question that I had is still so wonderfully unanswered and lovely: why does the nothingness exist? Did it necessarily have to? What kind of intelligence is behind such a thing? (I don't mean to get lost in words. I'm just having fun trying to express what these implications are Wow. That's all I can say. I would love to hear your thoughts on why this nothingness is here, Ilona.

I never realized how amazing vision is until I started self-inquiry. What is vision? Why does it exist? It is through vision that our brain filters perceptions of threats, beauty, food, cuteness, obstacles, etc. When I close my eyes, I no longer have this filter. For survival, I must then rely on my sense of sound and touch to filter these things for me. But what if I become deaf and blind? I can then only feel. But what if I sustain major brain or spine injury, and I no longer feel? What, then, is there to perceive? Thoughts? But even thoughts aren't reality. What if the thoughts stop? That's true nothingness. I really take my senses for granted. It starts with sight and touch. But these senses keep me from the true reality that is nothingness.

Emptiness is a Buddhist state experience. It is meant to describe a part of a process of stages of meditation absorption. It has nothing to do with the nature of life, or reality, and the lay person who is not interested in enlightenment or interested in fitting this description into its proper context need not bother thinking about such things. FWIW, there are stages beyond emptiness. Even in the Buddhist tradition. Nothingness is the Absolute "state" and is where "God" resides. But God is not just nothingness. If you had exposure to the correct information you would know that God also manifests. God manifests a vibration that projects itself outward in the form of archtypes known as the collective unconscious. You are free to live in the collective unconscious, and all that experience has to offer you. It is not "empty" it can be enjoyable. Its highest condition is "Self-Actualization" and an ok life can be made there. Further to that is Self Realization, a condition where one is free from the collective archtypes and where one is living their true nature. This is not for everyone, and not everyone will get there either. But either way, none of this manifest life is "empty". You just have a misguided perspective.

I just read the power of now and the content is so powerful and life changing! Leo, what exactly do you think of tolle's message of the Being within us and specifically our immortality as a formless consciousness? I remember you saying that we are existentially nothingness, and that everything comes from nothingness. But Tolle provides a very different perspective.

Or maybe you overestimate Shinzen Young? Happiness is what enlightenment is about. Awareness, consciousness, nothingness and all that bullshit are just technical jargon for the dry theory side of it. Enlightenment is about realizing that you don't want to escape this life anymore. It's an understanding of who you are and that the world is dependent on you, not the other way around. Dependency is for those that don't understand themselves and still believe that there is something worth chasing in life in order to complete ones self. It's all about the end of the search.

@-nbolt- As I understand, Enlightenment is realizing that you ARE awareness... (AKA being, consciousness, nothingness, presence, God)

It sounds like you and I have experienced the same. And yes, the absolute as you call it. To become non-existent. No souvenirs within experience to bring back from that one, as you know. Not a shred. For me it happens after the first stage is reached-(nothingness), than the absolute non-existence happens when I allow what little is there to dissolve completely into that nothingness. I did read that article in it's entirety. I thought it was a great.

And by the way, I've been there hundreds of times. Now every day I go there. The deep bliss of nothingness, ignoring all objects of mind, netti netti of the knower itself, and that knower, deeper and deeper experiences of nothing. There is another stage beyond what you describe, where it is the extinction of even awareness. This is called the Absolute. I'm sure I have been there, I know I am. But each time I come out of it, the ignorance is still there, and the suffering. So I know experiences dont mean anything, because the one "experiencing" is still some form of subtle ego, still some form of subtle duality. Because the experiencer has no way of recording the extinction of nirvana. We can never "experience" the Self.

@Orange I think the essence of why the first ego was created was to understand and make sense of the unexplainable field of nothingness that objective reality is constructed out of and to gain a false sense of certainty and aliveness. And to create a false idea of a self to improve itself and create certain boundaries upon what is right and wrong to serve its self agenda. And this has then let to the spreading of more ego's and since our parents have these, they program us with a very alive-feeling illusion that makes us 100% believe that we exist as people in the real world. To what? Serve us; it is not ideal to live in a society with no boundaries for the ego and to prevent this, they give us these norms that we shall live up to make us more aware of how the world works to make us survive in "the matrix" and possibly even thrive if we get really good at understanding the dynamics. Pretty crazy to think about..

@WhatAmI yes be the reality, but take note reality that you exist as NOTHINGNESS(which is not an experience), he said that dont locate yourself because it's impossible, just give up and just simply be it.

I would like a video about the complete enlightenment path, because I exactly want to know things like: -You talk about ¨after enlightenment¨. Is there really, what we conventionally call a point a time, where we are enlightened or is it only a process? -How do you know exactly what stage on the path you are at, if there is stages? And what are these stages? -Some people describe that you first see that you are the nothingness that you talk about, and that you then afterwards see that everything is this nothingness, is this true? Catchy titles: 1 The enlightenment path - the full journey before and after enlightenment explained. 2 The enlightenment path - The different stages explained 3 The enlightenment path - Complete explanation of the different stages

Just a little update: fear seems to want to happen, but something diffuses it. A sort of a love soup or disenchantment with it. It arises...it is recognized, it is melting into peace. Love is another label - just mind wanting to make things sweet and comfy but what is called love it simply is not there. there is no nothingness in the sense that brain wants to perceive it either **************************************************** What is there? there doesnt seem to make much sense as in There and not here I do not now how to describe it except there are thoughts trying to figure it out and feelings feeling it but none of those ARE IT they're just about it and all there is, is ABOUT it that ABOUT can be described as harmony and love but not IT it's not important anyway to find any words... just, wanted to share certain experiences tend to bring to light one aspect of IT, while others tend to bring another one.

@Piotr "technically dead" As in nothingness. "Self-actualization" is a loaded word, means something different for everyone.

Also, @Leo Gura I also saw for the first time "what the fuck is a tree?" That question is exactly the same question as "why is this nothingness here?" I'm looking forward to digesting all of these implications over "time"

After deep contemplation, I have come to terms with the fact that honestly... Everything in reality exists as an empty field of nothingness. And that the answers to all of these questions is nothingness. Nothing is everything paradoxically. And therefore, any rational explanation for any of these questions is just more pure nothingness that gets a model created that is also nothing (but is believed to be something) that belief is also nothing. This goes fucking deep and the ego's delusions is the main thing that has been seperating me from seeing this. This is how best I can describe my own direct pursuit of answering these questions and get to truth. Still open to what you think though

This is currently the idea I'm trying to embrace. I can understand it intellectually, but subconsciously I'm not quite there. My ego still tried to hold on to the idea I'm a separate, unique entity. From a physics standpoint, the universe started as a single point: something so incredibly tiny (sub atomic level) and something so dense, we can't even fathom it as humans. That tiny, single point contained every bit of matter, energy, and force that is in the universe today, and then rapidly expanded with the Big Bang. Every bit of particles that make up you, me, and the entire universe were allotted to that single point, meaning we all began from the same exact point in history, we're all connected, and we continue to expand. I envision the expansion of the universe like a blooming flower, pictured here (only if this flower started from nothingness). Is the very end of a petal not part of the same organic being that the center of the flower is? It is, and just like you may see another person as physically distant from you, you're still part of the same organic being. Here are a couple of inspiring quotes that relate to this idea. “A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” ~Albert Einstein “You are not IN the universe, you ARE the universe, an intrinsic part of it. Ultimately you are not a person, but a focal point where the universe is becoming conscious of itself. What an amazing miracle.” ~Eckhart Tolle

@Frogfucius Nothing wrong with that if you see science only as a tool or a springboard. If it helps you to create an opening in the mind beyond all 'this" than it is good and should not be denied. We all want to experience what lies beyond this existence. And understanding what existence is with the mind through science, physics and mathematics maybe the key that opens the door to what lies beyond for some people. Here is a conceptual framework for example. Physics theory says there are 11 dimensions. This existence is said to be the 1st through 4th and directly experienced as the 3-rd+time (the 4th). The 9th being a "probability space" where everything exists in the form of raw information that has not yet been put into action (manifested). So it sits there in a neutral flux state, waiting to happen if it is chosen by cause and effect of an action within this existence. It could be seen from that view that consciousness, through body/mind could be the product of the sum total of all dimensions experiencing itself within the 3rd-D+Time through raw physical manifestation working in conjunction with awareness. Of course the false self image that believes that it is a totally separate entity loves to take credit for what it experiences and in doing so, ignores the fact that it may be something very different that is really causing all "this" to happen from outside of this dimension. Just keep in mind that all these models are no more than the conceptual framework that we place on ourselves as being separate from the whole. The limited mind experiences all this from the limited perspective of this physical plane. If it's science that helps you start to break down the confines of this 3rd-D space- time and transcend it, who knows where that could lead, so that is a start. Look at mathematics also. Everything within existence being #1 through all the others numbers into infinity. Than there is Zero. Zero contains all the other numbers, but yet it contains nothing. Only the fact that it is empty allows it to do so. Zero is Alpha Omega. Zero proceeds all numbers and it will remain untouched after all numbers are gone. So numbers represent existence. But Zero lies beyond and is changeless. What was before the "big bang" could be seen as Zero. Than what is after the big bang (existence) is where the beginning of all numbers start. Zero could be seen symbolically as nothingness, emptiness or the void that everything springs forth into manifestation from. To sum this all up. If you look deeply enough into existence itself, you will find clues that point to the source of it. Like subtle arrows pointing the way to the truth. They are all around us at all times. Many are so obvious that they are taken for granted and we don't see the deeper meaning within them. Nothing is hidden. *No concept or words are any different than any other, scientific or spiritual. The only thing that truly matters is the direct experience of what you are beyond the limited self as body/mind within existence. What gets you there is not what matters. Use concepts to your advantage than discard them all without exception. Just don't get trapped in them or they will make you their prisoner without you realizing it. Even the concept of what may lie beyond the manifest must be thrown out. I personally don't care what lies beyond "this". For now there is only this that truly exists. Something has sent us here for a reason. I have accepted both sides of the coin but I reside here for now. When the time comes and the lights go out and I stop existing, so be it. I will fully except that than. You said you are "fascinated" by all this that is happing here? Good, that is what the cosmos intended for you to do so it could discover and experience itself! Never let that die! 'You" are here for a reason.

@Nexeternity I understand I'm not my "thinking" or conceptualizing mind as I stated earlier. Not all the time anyway. I know I can't "think my way to enlightenment". Even the thought of what enlightenment is automatically turns it into an illusion or concept of mind. That would be trying to bring enlightenment down to this lowly level of the" known". That's not going to happen any time soon. "If it can be spoken of, that ain't it", as the old saying go's. On rare occasions I have experience what I am as pure empty awareness, no self, no likes, no dislikes, no love, no hate, no emotions. no attachment, no knowing of any kind what so ever. True bliss and liberation from the egoic mind. There was nothing for the ego to cling to, good, bad or indifferent. But that was just tastes and not a permanent state. This is where my original question lies. Leo reminded of something in a statement he made in another post very recently. I think it points to the answers I seek. There is absolute nothingness, the "infinite singularity" that is pure, empty awareness. Maybe I could say, at best I have witnessed that from a distance. But if i became that, that would cause the final shards of self to utterly burn to ash and all remnants of self would than vanish without a trace. Total and final liberation from self. I did feel that when the experiences happened. But it's always fleeting within time. So here is where I'm at now to sum it all up. I must become that and not just experience it. I can see the difference in that now! Thanks brother, all of this really helped piece everything together for me in all different ways! This should all come together nicely at some point. Maybe I can get myself off this see-saw ride to enlightenment once and for all by not just focusing on awareness but to utterly become it in every way. * I wrote this the other day and forget never hit the send button. Well here it is now. I just read your latest statement above. Don't worry about it. Yea there is always plenty of work to be done. I been at it on and off for 30 yrs. and there is still plenty to be done! It's a life long journey. I 'm thinking lately I should maybe put a little boost into my experience. Something that may kick it up a notch. Maybe experiment a little.

@Philip This is pure stupidity what you're trying to pursue. Even if you do get what you're after with this mind-to-computer unification business, it will still pale in comparison to getting the realizations you can have about reality by pursuing consciousness work. The realizations you can have from it are so mind-blowing that it will make you question just what on Earth you're trying to pursue in life. The core problem with what you're advocating is that it's solely based on ego desire. Question those! Question your ego's DESIRES and question your EGO! QUESTION YOURSELF! Because if you don't, you basically have no chance in grasping, let alone seeing the significance of the following insights: In reality, there is only one being. There are no other people, there are no trees, there is no sky, there is no you, just one being that has existed for eternity. It is impossible for awareness to not be present. Your life has been lived an infinite amount of times and you have lived everyone else's lives an infinite amount of times and will continue to do so for eternity. Existential nothingness is synonymous with existential infinity. So many others that I haven't discovered yet. These are not just petty beliefs, if you can just have true comprehension of what these words mean then this whole discussion would become pointless to you. Heck, even I haven't even truly grasped anything that I'm saying. I'm barely a year into my enlightenment journey. Right now, all I have is intellectualizing and beliefs that I've gathered from different spirituality sources. Why am I confident enough to speak as if what I'm saying is truth? Because I've taken it seriously enough in the past months to at least have glimpses and "clicks" in my mind that reveal secrets to existence that have pretty much shattered the normal way "I" Iook at the reality. Another problem here is that you're underestimating how deep enlightenment is and you don't really recognize how the simplest truths don't necessarily take simple methods to grasp. For example, when I first discovered my true existential self one night (see my actualization journal), I found the realization to be so STUPIDLY SIMPLE that I couldn't help but laugh at the fact that it took me MONTHS of meditation to discover. How much more for all the other realizations that I'm trying to aim for? If I'm not taking this work as seriously as I am now, it would take me decades before I get to see the really deep stuff or possibly not even at all? How much more for you, though? You're chasing something completely freaking petty by comparison. The problem is that I can't explain to you in words just how petty and meaningless it is. You would have to have a complete mind-shift to be able to see it. You may retort that science and technology would make it far easier to reach these kind of insights but personally, I just don't trust that scientists, who themselves do not really grasp spirituality yet, would create breakthrough technology that would help people become enlightened, at least not at its current state, that's just my personal belief. I recognize that I have extreme ignorance when it comes to science because I don't bother to follow this stuff but I'm going with Leo when he says that science is still lagging far behind.

Study nonduality and study Islam. Have an enlightenment experience or two. It's obvious. The Sufi's have a great description of Enlightenment/Nothingness: fana al fana (the passing away of the passing away.) In the case of the Bible, it was written by followers who were clearly never enlightenment. Jesus did not write the Bible. The Bible is also contaminated by many political agendas. But even so, you can still find many references to enlightenment in the Bible if you understand what enlightenment is. Spiritual books are not written for modern scientific materialist rationalist minds. Your rationalist mindset is in many ways a modern disease. Modern humans have lost the ability to interpret symbols and metaphors, which is what all spiritual teachings are. They are not meant to be scientific because you CANNOT scientifically model Truth or God or any other deep spiritual insights. Be careful about imposing your own modern-era mindsets and biases onto cultures and peoples of 2000 years ago. They were in many ways far more advanced that we are. They were much more open to direct consciousness, whereas our heads are filled with "scientific" beliefs and models, none of which are absolutely true, and leave the mind closed to direct consciousness. Just because YOU want the Bible to say, "THIS IS ENLIGHTENMENT" doesn't mean it should. If a painting of Jesus with a halo around his head isn't glaringly obvious to you, then you really have a lot of research to do. The laws are actually not cruel but merciful, relative to the time of human history we are talking about. In those days, you could get you head chopped off on a whim. Religion actually established humane rules by which to structure civilization. Of course, in 2016, some of those laws look outdated.

@LadyfaceLou Well, there is no self controlling thoughts so you have 0 control over what thoughts appear. They simply show up out of nothingness and return to it. But you can become aware of thoughts and learn to observe to realize their illusory nature. They will then no longer be a problem to you. And getting to this point takes serious work. So you have to work to get there. I reccomend that you do daily meditation for 20 minutes every day or more if you desperately want to not get affected by these thoughts and take away their power; learn to love the process... Give meditation time to take effect and do it for the rest of your life...

Arguments don't mean anything at all when it comes to understanding consciousness. Really take consciousness work very seriously and do that for several months and you really understand just how meaningless it is to try to explain something as deep as consciousness and existence with words/models. What you really need is deep understanding. And you can't have deep understanding of truth without doing the raw practical work required. Even an enlightenment newbie will know that one. Uploading our consciousness into a system that would make us immortal is a complete joke! Complete delusion. It only takes a few months of exploring your own consciousness to know that it's complete bunk. As if consciousness is an actual physical phenomenon that is present in some sort of physical material world. As if consciousness is somehow located inside the skull of a human being that can be transferred into a different vessel. That's not the case at all. The only real problem here is that we're living in an age where the majority does not understand existence, consciousness, nothingness, truth etc. If you think that this A.I. utopia crap actually matters, you're way off.

@Samuel Garcia You will NEVER understand it with the mind. NEVER! It's utterly speechless. It's beyond anything you can imagine. Imagine actual aliens showed up at your house tonight, abducted you, and flew you to another galaxy. Well... that's peanuts compared to what we're talking about here. Aliens would seem normal by comparison. At least you can imagine aliens. Stop listening to scholars. They have no clue what reality is. A million scholars working for a million years would still not know. That's how radical this stuff is. I don't know how enlightened Muhammad was. My guess is, he had some deep mystical experiences but not full proper enlightenment. Which would explain the Quran. The universe is an idea in your mind. There is no such thing. The ultimate conscious being is Nothingness. Something can ONLY come out of Nothing. Nothing is NOT an experience. It's Nothing!

Day 5 - 7 These past few days have been a true journey towards my self actualisation journey and personal goals. I attended a programme called Superpower by entrepreneur and speaker Eric Ho, who’s big on the spiritual side as well as speaking from a place of real sincerity. There is so much to take from these three days that it’s hard to summarise but below area some really condensed topics which I found interesting: The 33% rule: Spend 33% of your time with people at a similar level to yourself. Spend another 33% with people with results you are look in for and learn from them. Spend another 33% with individuals not quite at your level whom you can contribute towards/teach. Fear Fear does not go away. Feel the fear and do it anywhere. A lot of fears come from social conditioning. Anything you fear comes from what someone else has feared. Money Jar Analogy Say you are earning £1000 a month. 50% of this should go to your standard living expenses. 10% should go to savings. 10% towards investment (making money) 10% towards play (enjoying life), 10% towards education (growth) 10 Giving (giving is receiving/karma). Sales and Business “Sales is everything”. Selling is serving. Selling is the transition to giving. Business is just exchanging value for money. Business is only about solution. All about finding a solution to a problem. Always be solution focused. Meditation Meditation is nothingness – it is purely witnessing Purpose: “What’s the purpose there is no purpose. The purpose is being” He repeated the phrase ‘You don’t know what you don’t know’ and it is so true when you start seeing things from different viewpoints and perspectives. Over the three days I found some fantastic networking opportunity with individuals involved in property and other interesting industries which I intend to meet in the near future. I have developed a lot more self acceptance of myself and of circumstances. ‘Let go, its ok. It will all be fine’. Eric mentions when you have a little voice disagreeing with something simply observe it and say "thankyou for sharing". The importance of flow was emphasised as well, be like water. ‘Master the form and flow with the formless’ was one of the key messages also. There had been a lot to take from the 3 days and haven’t really been to events like as these but see tremendous value in them and will look into attending things similar. I hope these 3 days are notnot something that I am left buzzing from just the weekend, but I am able to translate for the near future and maintain in my self actualisation journey as well as towards goals. It has been a strong foot in the right direction as well as meeting like minded individuals on the way.