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@Leo Gura I'm making my way through your book list and read God Is Nothingness and Mastering The Core Teachings of the Buddha, currently on Enlightenment, the Damndest Thing, and one thing that is conflicting me is the difference between Enlightenment and spiritual insight you get from state experiences. On one hand, I can see how experience as a whole, even the mystical ones could be just a distraction from Truth, on the other hand, it sounds like they might be worth cultivating. Do you think developing high concentrations states like the eight Jhana or profound samadhis are worthwhile, or should I not worry about attaining those and put more emphasis on just insight practice? I'll keep going back and studying more carefully, but right now I don't know. Daniel Ingram seems to think it can be worthwhile but not necessary while I'm getting the impression Jed McKenna argues that all experience is just a distraction and mysticism may lead to delusion.

I guess emptiness ....just nothingness and the vastness of space and time.

@Simon Håkansson Enlightenment doesn't come upon motivating yourself. The ego needs motivation mainly. You need to learn to fully surrender and let go of the control you think you have. This denotes that you are trustworthy to The God within you, and only then the peaceful Love that you are in essence will shine bright within you. Enlightenment is Love. Can you force yourself to love me more, a stranger on the Internet, more than you love your mother? No. You need to let go of stories, personal justifications, egoic ambitions, in order to see the fully loving nothingness that you are. Once you're there, attend to your soul's core desires and wounds, as you'll begin the awakening of the heart. Good luck!

First, I tried to answer what is Nothingness?: 1. I can't because it is simply nothing. 2. Impossible because all thoughts and and answers are just labels and pointing to something-ness. 3. The question doesn't really make sense, because questions itself are just words created by thoughts. Second, I tried to answer who am I? then lot chit chats happening , rationalization that I am my body , my brain etc. But my question really pointing out to the 'sense of self', not really to the physically body so it just flash me back when Im trying to answer What is Nothingness? So the sense of self is totally an illusion, and what is called your True Self cannot be questions or answered because it is simply Nothingness. And the most interesting that came to me was that , for a second I can see my arms and legs moving by itself same thing when I see a table -there is no sense of self attached on it. It's freaky you know, but after a minute here I am back again. note:sorry for my English:)

@Annetta I have provided the link you can download it for free, you should know perspective of an enlightened master too. Excerpts from the Book : We enter on a rare pilgrimage. The Ten Bulls of Zen are something unique in the history of human consciousness. Truth has been expressed in many ways, and it has always been found that it remains unexpressed whatsoever you do. Howsoever you express it, it eludes, it is elusive. It simply escapes description. The words that you use for it cannot contain it. And the moment you have expressed, immediately you feel frustrated as if the essential has been left behind and only the nonessential has been expressed. The Ten Bulls of Zen have tried in a single effort to express the inexpressible. So first, something about the history of these ten bulls. Basically, there were eight pictures, not ten; and they were not Buddhist, they were Taoist. Their beginning is lost. Nobody knows how they started, who painted the first bulls. But in the twelfth century a Chinese Zen master, Kakuan, repainted them; and not only that, he added two more pictures, and eight became ten. The Taoist pictures were ending on the eighth; the eighth is emptiness, nothingness. But Kakuan added two new pictures. That is the very contribution of Zen to religious consciousness. When one moves on an inner journey one leaves the world, renounces all that hinders the path, renounces all that is nonessential so that the essential can be searched, sought. One tries to become unburdened so the journey can become easier, because the journey, this journey, is towards the height, the greatest height there is – the very pinnacle of human possibilities, the very climax. One leaves the world, one renounces the world; not only the world – one renounces the mind, because the mind is the cause of the whole world. The world of desires, the world of possessions, is just the outer part. The inner part is the mind: the desiring mind, the lustful mind, the jealous, competitive mind, the mind full of thoughts; that is the seed. One renounces the outer, one renounces the inner, one becomes empty – that’s what meditation is all about. One becomes totally empty. But is this the end? The Taoist pictures ended with nothingness. Kakuan says this is not the end – one comes back to the world, one comes back to the marketplace; only then is the circle complete. Of course, one comes totally new. One never comes with the old; the old is gone, gone forever. One comes totally renewed, resurrected, reborn – as if this man had never gone; as if this man is coming totally fresh and virgin. One comes back to the world and again one lives in the world yet lives beyond it. Again one becomes ordinary – chopping wood, carrying water from the well, walking, sitting, sleeping – one becomes absolutely ordinary. Deep inside, the emptiness remains uncorrupted. One lives in the world but the world is not in your mind, the world is not within you. One lives untouched, like a lotus flower.

I know there can be nothigness. Peter Ralston describes it here: "get that you could be a snail, right now, you could be a snail, so you have no eyes, no visual perception, nor any idea of such a thing. Create this idea for yourself. What that would that be like? You're a snail, see. So, I exist, but I have no eyes, no visual and no idea of such a thing. Create a world in which that's true for you in your experience. Ehi, now, how about a single cell organism that has no perceptive organs at all, be a single cell organism, has no perceptive organs at all. What's that like? Without perceptions or any memory of perception. Without language, without perceptions or any memory of perception and without language, can you think? Try. [...] Try harder. [...] You can't think? See now, that tells you something about thinking, does it? [...] ... close your eyes. Now, what you have in your experience? Darkness is vision, you have hearing, sounds, feelings, sensations, smell. Now remove all of these. It could be done. You know, we could destroy your smell, we could destroy your ears, we could destroy your eyes, we could destroy your nervous system [...] whatever. See, it could be done. So, go ahead and do that, remove all of these, even sensations. It's possible, so imagine doing it. So you remove sight and sound and sensations and smell and taste [...] remove perceptive faculties of any kind. Now where are you? What are you?" So, if you're saying that there is a nothingness that is the most fundamental "thing" and that precedes and follows every sensory experience and it's the essential "I", I could believe you, it makes sense. But that would just be another "experience" (I know that technically it's not an experience) in a series of experiences. It wouldn't be always there. When attention "arises" from that nothingness that nothingness disappear. But if you're suggesting that nothingness is always present, I don't follow you.

That's basicly what he said in the video that i posted ! ( I start to realize the importance of space between my body and a object. Nothingness which play the role of air is the energy that causes enlightement because air is by nature empty, it is but it is not ).

I'm making it complicated? You're the one making all those complicated distinctions and rules about right and wrong. My version is extremely simple: Absolute Infinite Nothingness. Total freedom. Anything goes. It couldn't be simpler or more beautiful.

@Dodo The glass of Nothingness is so full it's infinitely overflowing More than your heart can ever stand.

Glass half full: It's grounded on nothingness ?

@username Ah, that's interesting. Of course just capitalizing the word still fails to address a distinction that rarely ever gets made. The thing that people often refer to "nothingness", small "n", isn't an absence of anything, it's the presence of all things undivided, it's the all of everything in unity manifest without any delineation in the state of it that exists before any separation takes place in existence. The "Nothingness" with the big "N" is another distinction that can be made but it's the type of understanding that comes from experience in awakened awareness of a personal revelation. Without it there is no way to describe the understanding to another person, it's actually possible to conceive of but it likely is impossible to communicate.

@SOUL Yeah, I maybe should have clarified that in the post. You're spot on and the book covers that as well. Calling it Nothingness is just a necessity for communication, but no idea I have of Nothingness is it. The author covers this by making a distinction between "nothingness" (which is our conceptualized nothingness) and "Nothingness", which is impossible to conceive and is the predicate to all things.

Well, "nothingness" isn't quite accurate either but it's close enough, that's part of the illusion, the mind thinks it understands it's "nothingness". It's just the paradox that we will take on this journey with a destination which cannot be charted because all we can conceive of is merely a reflection of what we think we know and can understand. So in calling it "nothingness" it is just another concept that our minds think we can understand and search for it with. The reason I say this is because while the concept of "nothingness" may be useful to sort out some of the confusion when observing from a more dense "physical substrate", as you called it, eventually to continue on the journey with no destination we have to abandon all concepts in the mind...even the ones that have served us well. There is a reason so many fruitlessly seek enlightenment with thoughts of nothingness in their head, they refuse to give up the attachment to the notion that their minds have perceived it accurately.

Because happiness is nothingness and nothingness is happiness Accomplishment is nothingness and nothingness is accomplishment Pursuing is nothingness and nothingness is pursuing Love is nothingness and nothingness is love Development is nothingness and nothingness is development Creation is nothingness and nothingness is creation I hope that bridges the divides Nothing trully is God Ps: Everything is nothingness and nothingness is everything.

I was going to put this in the book review section, but I wanted to put it in the main consciousness forum since the insights from this work have been so quickly actionable in daily practice. God is Nothingness by Andre Dolshim Halaw shattered a lot of my conceptions about the path. I was shocked when I came to the quick realization that I had still been grasping for something, as if the Nothing I had been looking for was a some sort of a physical substrate, despite the fact that I had been told hundreds of times over that this was not the case by a variety of spiritual teachers. Whenever you think you've found yourself, you are not that. I can't really explain why, but when I really internalized this, I felt a reflexive amalgamation of existential terror and pure frustration. It was awesome. I'm going to be referring back to this quick read MANY times throughout my journey. I've noticed that putting the wisdom here into action has also brought about immediate tangible (no-pun intended) results in my practice. A lot of my stumbling blocks in self-inquiry have been resolved. I'm still yet to have my first awakening experience, but a lot of my confusion has been alleviated.

Allright, I'll share an old poem of mine called Excerpts of unwritten letters: Getting choked up over nothing really Barely able to hold back my tears to stop them from streaming down my face in lonely rivers dripping from my chin to fall into nothingness Just like you I have a million questions but no answers - not even a bad one I would tell you everything will be okay if I could just believe it myself Dearest, don't torture yourself Be silent no longer and get out of your hole Say what you want to say do what you want to do But don't feel and act like a corpse while life still flows within you You think I know nothing and you are right But I do know that I miss you I surrender myself to remember the imperfect perfect moment when your eyes met mine when your lips kissed mine My thoughts of you are all too hauntingly touching and if I could only permit myself to truly reveal them I would tell you I love you But instead I remain silent and feel the fever rising and hear my heart breaking

Just got back from a WHM Workshop. It wasn't held by Wim himself, but rather somebody who has been trained by him. The workshop was split into three distinct parts; Yogic breathing and retention cycles. Yoga postures. Finally more breathing with an ice bath, as well as a presentation on the health benefits and Q&A. Seekers may be interested a lot in the breathing technique, as an exploration of consciousness can be possible with this technique. One girl said that she felt as if she was slipping into a nothingness, and that she had a thought, that perhaps death is quite a nice and liberating experience. The ice bath was great as it requires a lot of one pointed concentration, and once you get in there, the monkey chatter slows a lot. I even went back for an optional second go in the bath. Once you do the ice bath, you feel confident and empowered, because it isn't easy, as well as really alive and awake. Anyway, I would recommend you guys to do it, if you are new or at least fairly new to it. If you've done the full online course I can't see there being tons of value. I enjoyed it anyhow.

so consciousness work and nondual spirituality/philosophy and self actualization... they ultimately lead to this declaration that - there is no self, physical existence is illusory, all that is real is awareness and that is a tricky devil. nonduality, idk how to capture it well in words but basically the idea that the best life is the monk's life working full time to reach the highest stages of consciousness possible. But I say, that in and of itself is identity, duality, moralization of right and wrong, and inherently that decision (like any decision) is dogmatic. Yes, so is what I am saying here, also dogmatic. but the argument then is to say that sure of course consciousness work sounds like dogma because you can only discuss it in words, and that is where the dogma lies. but I counter with the point that even awareness itself is illusory, is no different from sensation or thought, and as thought is a tricky thing which pretends to not be thought! Leo and some others have hinted at how there is real direct experience from consciousness work that is definitely not thought and is definitely infinite and nothingness and god and enlightenment. and IDK I feel as if I have had tastes of this what they speak of so I'm not saying this from ignorance please but - inherently experience itself is illusory. In fact I say, as long as we are conscious at all, we prove that we are not nondual. well, yes nonduality is the true existence - but we as a "local experience" of existence are inherently dual, only dual, and cannot Truly be nondual in our consciousness. Naturally - the monk dedicating their life to experience as close to nondual infinity, to god as they can possibly get - that is valid and honorable and kudos to any who dedicate their life to it. But There is no such thing as inauthenticity, as low consciousness, or anything similar. If this local experience I call me acts in a "low consciousness" way, that IS authentic. And mindfulness work is only at its basic form - focusing on increasing our internal experience to be more present, and on transcending illusions. Farming the field before, farming the field after. If I understand the goals of nonduality, consiousness, and ETC and work to encorporate the teachings as they apply to my local illusory life, Then I am self-actualizing just as much as the sage in the monastery. If I go it my path, I inherently am doing it authentically. to be "more authentic" is an illusion itself. Is there any counter argument to this?

I didn't know whether I should post this topic into the life purpose section or the philosophy & science section. So I just put it here because its about my life purpose. I have a problem with my life purpose. Through all of the exercises in the course I now have a pretty good sense that my life purpose is a combination of the two fields of computer science and consciousness stuff. I am naturally good at maths, science and computer science. I get into a state of flow, love it to solve problems, and to implement solution processes in code. This is sort of my zone of genius. On the other hand I want to have an impact on the world that isn't really connectalbe with this. I love it to understand these concepts Leo talks about. I am fascinated by metaphysical questions. I love it to understand various topics deeply and to see the impact of them on life. I love it to be open-minded and learn new stuff. I would like to make the people more open-minded and conscious about these things in some way. The problem is that I don't know what to do with these two fields together. Its like I want to combine logic with nothingness. Its simply not possible for a computer to grasp nothingness. I feel like this: public boolean alive = true; private boolean enlightened = false; private I i; public Life() { i = new Something(); } private void inquire() { i = whatAmI(); } private Something whatAmI() { return null; } while(alive) { if(!enlightened) { i.inquire(); } else { i.doNothing(); } } Because the return statement of the method whatAmI() is null (nothing) I would get NullPointerExceptions all the time. Nothing cannot do doNothing() or inquire(). I have been thinking about doing something with artificial intelligence. There is much undiscovered potential in this field. But what the hell should the AI then do? I could try to create some sort of new technology that makes it easier for people to have new insights, but there are already psychedelics and so on. Or I could try to rebuild a human brain with computers and see what happens. Or a software that analyses all the blockages in the minds of people, but people can do that well enough too. Any ideas?

Thanks, This got me thinking.. One of the strangest things about Dimethyltrytamine that i have encountered is every time you go back, you remember how everything you have done in life has led up until that point to going back there, from every breath, to even the smallest of choices or thoughts, even the ant that walked by that you weren't aware of all has meaning, all has some part in the play that led up until that moment, its all understood in a divine way but at the same time empty like everything is there, infinite in nothingness... No matter what you try to do to manipulate, once you get to that state you just know that is was already set to happen beforehand it blows my mind everytime..

I don't think the meditation (the appropriate word for the practice that I do is kriya) that I do involves doing nothing. Its a 3 part technique and in the first part of it I'm supposed to have a mild focus between the eyebrows while taking in the thought "I'm not the body" with inhalation and "I'm not even the mind" with exhalation. So when I take in those thoughts, at some point I try to feel into it and try to experience something beyond the mind and the body but it seems everytime I try I can't experience anything beyond the mind. So I think this is what Leo said that I need to repeatedly fail in this attempt so that my mind finally gives up. Maybe this isn't what you call meditation but I thought I'll try this out. I'm just starting to get into a routine, before that I was just doing meditation whenever I feel to. I actually put this kriya in the routine before my planned date. Maybe on the planned date I'll add a normal meditation probably the do nothing technique. Besides this, I also recently started doing something called the Stop technique in which suddenly during the middle of the day I suddenly stop doing everything (even breathing) for a moment. When suddenly I stop it said that the mind also stops for a moment and I try to notice it. Again here I noticed that feeling of nothingness within my body.

Contemplation question for grasping Nothingness: Who wants to know?

I've never got this point, maybe you can help me! I get how nothingness can be known in its pure form. Rupert Spira put it like this: "it’s the sinking and sinking and sinking and sinking of the attention into its source and as the attention sinks into its source, it is, gradually in most cases, very occasionally suddenly, but gradually in most cases, divested of all the limitations that thought and feeling have superimposed on it and at some point it stands completely undressed. And attention undressed, attention divested of all limitations is pure consciousness". I've already had a taste of the process Spira is describing when I did your guided letting go meditation. So I get that if I let go of everything (and yes I know that I, the person, can't let go because I don't exist) pure awareness will remain. What I've never understood is how it's possible to be aware of nothingness merged with content! I've heard Shinzen Young and Rali say that it's like an intuitive knowing, but this doesn't really mean anything. Could you please help me understand?

Contemplation question for grasping Nothingness: Where is Leo's hair?

Applying awareness shines living light on nothingness and creates a moment of living perfection out of sheer non-existence, the now. We will reap what we sow, this is how reality works. If you spit against the wind, you are not in an advantageous position. . Let's save the bees. The Enlightened Master Bee: You think I am this body made of honey? You insult me! I am not this. I am consciousness. I am conscious awareness. Come and see for yourself. Enter this world of wonder and don’t stop until you’ve reached the esteemed destination of Nirvana. Also known as Alive Beingness. Nirvana/Love is not simply a place, buzz Nirvana/Love is not simply an event, buzz Nirvana/Love is a feeling. buzz Nirvana/Love is the feeling of I am: Alive Existence. buzz Release the shell, don't hold it in no more. Pour out your soul, buzz buzz, for me to see. to make it whole. Be and be and be and bee. Don't hide behind the mask, just let it all go out and be. Buzzbuzz, buzzbuzz, buzzbuzz, buzzbuzz A feeling of alive peace and alive quite buzzz, behind every noise and happening. A peaceful pieace of existence. The aliveness of being present in the alive present moment. The now, as the humans call it. There’s nothing to do. There’s just being to be “beinged”. You are that presence, you are where the light touches and your core is so deep it reaches the center of the entire existence, because it is you. Buzz buzz! Henry the disciple bee: Oh WOW, I am aware of this yes. buzzbuzz I feel I am this alive being. buzzbuzz. buzzbuzz. buzzbuzz It feels. buzzbuzz. buzzbuzz. buzzbuzz Nice! Actually. buzzbuzz. buzzbuzz. buzzbuzz I can see what you mean. buzzbuzz Isn't it wonderful how Nirvana is just no steps away? Not 2 steps, not even 1 step. buzzbuzz No steps. buzzbuzz I get it now. buzzbuzz Wow. buzzbuzz This is so simple, thanks, my master. buzzbuzz I don't need to take steps to know that I am! You are the best at explaining the Truth to a simple mind like mine! I am a lowly disciple. buzzbuzz I have been graced by the glory of being showed a direct realisation of being. buzzbuzz Omg, I am actually a master of being, because I have been always! Wow such unity, such clarity. buzzbuzz It cannot be described. buzzbuzz I have to share this with everyone. buzzbuzz They need to feel the joy I am feeling! Alive being IS Nirvana, thank you Enlightened Master for letting me in on the little secret of Life. buzzbuzz The little big secret. buzzbuzz That is nothing and everything THank you so so soso so so sos so Much. buzzbuzz Disciple #2: Wont you two be quiet I am trying to meditate in order to reach the state of no mind and reach the true Nirvana, where thought can no longer harass me and just let me be ;( ;( I CRI EVERTYM I wanna be free, I wanna be liberated!!!! I want peace and quiet and you two won't shut up about your Nirvana realisations. buzzbuzz. buzzbuzz. buzzbuzz WAIT I WANT THAT TOO, WAIT I UNDERSTAND TOO NOW. buzzbuzz OMG THIS IS IT! I AM OMG OMG OMG OMG!!! BUZZZZZZZZZZ I AM PEACE AND QUIET ITSELF I AM CONSCIOUSNESS, THE SCREEN BEHIND ALL THE PAINT. buzzbuzz OMG THANK YOU O ENLIGHTENED MASTER OF ENLIGHTENING ME TOO. buzzbuzz OMG THE POWER OF YOUR YELLOW BEE SHINE HAS MADE A DENT IN MY MIND AND LET THE ENERGY FLOW. buzzbuzz Enlightened Master Bee: Look at the buzz, it's everywhere. It's silence. buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz. The present moment can be both the most silent and the most loud. Buzz, Buzz, Buzz!!! Hahahahahhah