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For one thing i don't believe in nothingness. And theories are not distractions. Theories= thoughts and everyone has thoughts. Without theories it wouldn't be possible to inquire about anything including meditation and enlightenment. Also, in less than 60 seconds I'm going to prove to you that everything is a miricle, then explain time etc. The true nature of time is very confusing, but we have 2 different perspectives that we use for all of knowledge and of thought. The perspective most of us use is a whole lot easier! It consists of the present, the past and the future. But if we take quantum physics and include the big bang in it we see that time somehow is not made up of now, then and ahead of us. So everything we know is either wrong or miraculously correct. Since we are able to have a concept of reality and we learn things as we go it is apparent that a very powerful force allows the learning to happen but only at the will of that force at the same time we are also each a piece of that force and the force is one, AND everything we can imagine happened in zero seconds. Without time. The continuous big banging going on creating new universes is how time is made in the 3rd demention. Time exists in the 2D world in a fashion unknown to us until we leave the 3d world and return to the outside of each universe. Our spirits are 2D located in the pineal gland in your brain. When the mind is partially unconscious, asleep, under a drug, encounters any chemical it affects the body or (vessel) the brain, and the spirit in unique ways all at the same time. The spirit travels or (out of body) at all times. When the body dies the spirit is cut off and naturally goes to it's origin. The outside of this universe and im not sure but i imagine u go to a sort of "checkpoint" and then you are taken to a new body. The easier way to think of time isn't necessarily exactly the same as we think but it's ok! Our perceptions are always at least grasping it's reality only in a small amount or a larger amount depending on the permission of itself, oneness and the greater force. Assension happens continuously as the object or (body) changes into a greater force until it and all others become one. The oneness that exists is perfectly solid until it explodes into the next universe. We won't know all things of each universe until it becomes one in a newly formed place. Alive not alive things are always learning or collecting data and each have their own perceptions/reactions. As far as enlightenment goes, meditation seems to be the way most people do so, but the individual is king of the path.

@dead man walking Only nothingness can be infinite; somethingness is bound to be finite. Only out of nothingness is an infinite expanse of life, existence, possible - not out of somethingness. God is not somebody: He is nobody or, more correctly, nobodiness. God is not something: he is nothing or, even more correctly, no-thingness. He is a creative void. Never for a single moment think that nothingness is a negative state, an absence, no. Nothingness is simply no-thingness. Things disappear, only the ultimate substance remains. Forms disappear, only the formless remains. Definitions disappear, the undefined remains. The awakening of a buddha is total. In that total awakening there is a luminous awareness surrounded by a positive nothingness. It is not empty, it is overfull. Things have disappeared... and what has remained is inexpressible. We try to express it as blissfulness, as ecstasy, as eternal joy, but these are just faraway echoes of the real thing. Osho, The Great Zen Master Ta Hui, Talk #16

Hello! I have been doing 30-60 min of self-inquiry every day for a month now. I would appreciate if some could tell me, if i'm on the right path or not 1. I start with my eyes open and look at my body. Am I the foot? Am I the leg? What if I cut of the leg? Will that leg still be a part of me? 2. Then I start to open og close my eye for at few times. With closed eyes the body doesn't exist, but I am still there? So why do I think that I am the body? 3. Then I sit with closed eyes. And I ask: Who am I? Am I some of the remaining phenomenons? The changing colour in my sight? The sounds? The feelings? And how can I know that I am these or not? Or maybe I am the sphere within the phenomenon is occuring? I have been stucked on this level for at good time. 4. Then yesterday I sat with closed eye and was asking again frustrated What is left? Sight? Sounds? feelings? maybe awareness? For fuck sake there is "nothing" more. Then it hit me that I have always thought that nothing was the opposite to phenomenon... Like something that is between phenomenon. But maybe nothing is a phenomenon/object that is just non-existing? So I tried to sense the phenomenon of nothing between my thoughts, behind the feeling of my back and under my butt. And then I asked: if this emptiness/nothingness is not the body or mind, where does it end? I would be glad for any input

Well, in a sense, yes. There is the Absolute Truth which is the nothingness / everythingness. And then, there is earth phenomenon which is life as we know it. Then, there are different layers/levels of heaven and hell phenomena. It's funny how sometimes the different phenomena intermingle. Maybe that's why they're talking about trolls. Troll phenomenon: Let me add, life is a school. Leo's blog talks about it. Looks like we better graduate from this life first. Don't forget to factor in karma.

It's definitely not a nothing we can conceive of... "The Nothing that I refer to has no opposite; it is the nebulous source." " "The world of objects is limited, Nothingness is not." "Absolute Nothingness, on the other hand, is limitless, pregnant with infinite potential." Those are all quotes from God is Nothingness. Obviously our reality is an illusion, in reality is Nothingness or Nothing. Okay, this is in an Absolute way. But to say that trolls are as real as the tree is non-sense. One is conceptual, imaginary or what have you and the other one has an existence outside of the personal mind. Just because they are the same in the Absolute sense doesn't make them the same in the relative one. The exist in different levels... So, are Trolls real? In Absolute Nothingness, as real as I am. In the world of objects, yes, as a conceptual activity.

@Nahm I ask because I had a 9 hour long trip (thinking non-stop in causal chains) when I ate a hash-cookie 3 years ago. The only things I remembered is that: there is much more to life than we perceive. An analogy that came to my mind was: If you see a light-tube, it's just light shining constantly. But if you record it with your phone in slow-mo, you can see that it flickers. that we cannot die, there's nowhere to go life is an infinite chain reaction infinity=nothingness When that last insight came to me, I opened my eyes and everything was understood. After 9 hours of ultra rapid thinking, the thoughts just stopped. Now the most interesting thing is: at that point I was not interested in religion, philosophy, physics, biology, nor did I know about spirituality. Let alone enlightenment. Now how can my experience be so congruent if it's unique? I've used the "kid-example" to represent a state of mind without knowledge. Could it be that everyone of us has the absolute answers within him/her?

@Telepresent no problem man. The pointing experiment is the most revealing. It reveals..nothingness. It reveals that emptiness at center is Source for everything. You are capacity for everything. Having a turbulent day? Turbulence out there and calmness at center.

The next stage is to realize that your belief that you are at the center of things is an illusion. But even that is a story. You as a body-mind-brain don't exist. But even that is a story. What exists is reality being aware of itself, and reality is everything moving as one giant flow without distinction. But even that is a story. And Reality being itself just is you. But even that is a story. You are not a thing but the non-dual reality being itself. But even that is a story. You are the atmosphere that is aware of all the clouds moving though it, yet you are not the clouds. But even that is a story. Reality is not conceptually capturable, it is idealism. It is what is -- stripped of our thought-stories about it. It is being that. Knowing it by being it. But even that is a story Everything you see around you is not physical. It's a non-dual substance. But even that's a story. Nothing is what is conscious of everything. It's just one being. But even that's a story. Nature is nothingness. And that's what you are. It has no properties, no features. It doesn't exist or not exist. But even that's a story. Fall into the godhead. This is the ultimate nature of reality. Where there are no distinctions and you are aware you are nothing, and that everything is you. Absolute Infinity is right in front of you. BUT . . . . Need I go on? Do you see by not-seeing what I am pointing/ not-pointing to? Enlightenment is an odd sort of reading between the lines. But, yes, even that is a little story, a little hairless-monkey fairy-tale we tell ourselves to feel like we know. To satisfy our need to know, our need for certainty. Our human/egoic urge for conceptual resolution, for understanding -- that succulent, tantalizing fruit we can't resist -- like Eve not minding God and wanting to feast on such forbidden-fruit from the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden. After God found out about this little fruit-picking transgression, He said, get the hell outta here and don't come back! Don't be pickin' no fruit from my Tree of Knowledge. I told you explicitly not to do this. Jeez!

@Telepresent you are the box in your avatar pic. The box is implied. Only implied. It is no-thing. IMO, you are going in the right direction. 'I am not my body' - is a big step. Currently, however, you seem to be identifying as your brain / thinking / thoughts. The next big step is becoming aware that you are not your thoughts - and then next step after that is that there is no "you" which has thoughts / no observer which observes the thoughts. There is no-thing, which we all are, through us / which has awareness. See how "we are all One"? No souls, no heaven & hell, no observer - just the one no-thing. (The one no-thing is pure love & bliss btw, yet also no-thing at all) (also, imo, it has an incredible sense of humor, and also is no-thing) To detach from your thoughts, which allows the next breakthrough, you must get started putting the focus in, doing the meditation. Continue the self inquiry. Start eating vegan. Excercising. Then you'll be feeling great. Assimilate the habit of breathing awareness 24/7 & BEING IN THE NOW. Past & future are merely thoughts in the now. Look at all things and say "that's not me".......Then try shrooms. Research it! You'll breakthrough. Continue that "path" of no path, and you're on your way to nothingness. (And it's fucking awesome, no fear, no doubt, everything makes sense, love pours out of you all day, miracles happen, birds chirp to you, water feels like a kindred spirit / best friend, people come out of the wood work with opportunities for you, funny is funnier, crazy is crazier!!! Animals will literally walk out of the woods and gaze into your eyes while you both experience - that you are no thing, Beautiful is true beauty itself, the stars pop right into place every time you look at them!, IT REALLY GETS AMAZING TELLY!! ....also...it's also no thing, plus, you'll be CRAZY!????)

@Captain Flint You should not take my example literal, the kid just represents simplicity of thinking and a minor treasury of words. Leo basically talks about infinity, nothingness and experience. Maybe it's like a puzzle, the "kid" and Leo both completed it, but the kid had one with less pieces and Leo with a lot more. The core of my question was: Is the level of satisfaction the same? And if communicated, could the kid achieve the same effect on the audience?

This website has amazing demonstrations of how infinite you are. The scale presented stops at the plank length for the small stuff and the Cosmic background radiation for the big stuff, but guess what? You - consciousness - the universe - God - nothingness - absolute infinity goes unimaginably farther in every way imaginable. The scale demonstrated here is nothing compared to the Truth of what you actually Are. Everywhere you look, everything you see, everywhere you move consists of an infinitely deep, multidimensional fractal of pure consciousness. You can go to the end of the universe, the end of time, and zoom into the the planck length of a Planck length of a Planck length and you will only find more consciousness. Consciousness is All. And You are the primary source! And everyone else - even an amoeba - is the primary source too! We are all the primary source such that nothing is the primary source. In the words of the Three Musketeers: "One for all, all for one!" This is not woo-woo pseudoscience. This is physical fact; metaphysical fact; psychosocial fact! This is fact. Period. We are Knots of consciousness folded up within 'Big' consciousness to seem like we are seperate. Do not be fooled by your own tricks. In the words of DJ Khaled, "never play yourself"! The superclusters you see toward the far end of the scale of the universe are basically gigantic neurons that help form the Kosmic Mind that we reside in. But this mind is just one mind in a sea of more minds that goes so far that it wraps upon itself to once again become you. We play around in the mind of God. God plays around in the mind of us. Kosmos plays around inside Kosmos. And what do we play? We play the game of "how did I do it?" God loves telling himself the story of how he created himself. See, Consciousness is irreducible... it is the ultimate metaphysical conundrum... it is unsolveable... except for a god. God sets up some conditions using the language of mathematics, blows itself up and then figures out how to put itself back together. It's like painting on cardboard, taking a knife to cut up puzzle pieces, scrambling the puzzle, and then punching yourself in the face to forget what the puzzle is supposed to look like. It takes an infinite being to solve an infinite problem. If it's not us, it's some other lifeform, but somehow, someway we will (re)learn how it's done. The life form that figures it out will always be Us at its core. In this way, god reforms god. Here's another way to put it: ever since the Big Bang, our universe has slowly died due to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. The universe uses us - life forms - to prepare itself for its heat death due to cosmic expansion. We are how the universe thinks. We are the ones who help it understand how to rebuild and start a new bubble of inflation once the heat death occurs. Big Bang - life - heat death - Big Bang - life - heat death. And it all happens Now. Forever. Forever Now. Do you see? So who started it? Us. Who ends it? Us. Now and forever. Note the my usage of Kosmos instead of Cosmos. 'Cosmos' refers to the physical reality we observe normally. 'Kosmos' refers to the multidimensional evolving Totality of existence, encompassing not only the physical (cosmos/cosmic) but the biological, emotional, mental, psychic, and spiritual domains. On the left are neurons. On the right are cosmic superclusters. Put it together: one mind, one consciousness. All the best, TJ

No no no! You DO believe you know what you are. If you didn't know what you are, then you would not be asking these questions. An intellectual not knowing is vaastly different from a real genuine experiential not knowing. That's very important to understand. So yes of course you are still identified with something. Most likely your body and your mind, and not the chair your sitting on. A while ago Leo said in other post something like 'put yourself in an imaginary situation where you've got a gun to your head, and the person holding the gun is gonna' pull the trigger unless you honestly tell them what the hell you think you are.' Put yourself in that situation. I mean, it's fairly obvious that you're identified with the body/mind, unless you are actually awake. My guess is that your not though. Just be honest with yourself. It's very important that you try to get very clear about what you believe yourself to be. You also need to get the idea of 'reaching that nothingness' out of your head. There's no going anywhere! It's all right here, right now.

@Space yes, that's what ive been doing, you described it very clear. the problem is that I got to a point where i simply dont know what i am so i cant get that honest answer. what do i do then? if i dont know and im not enlightened yet, does that mean that i still kinda identify with something and im not aware of it? and i should try to find that something? or should i try to reach that nothingness and realize thats me?

@Ilya Sit down. Put aside all your life concerns and focus all of your attention on the inquiry for the period of time you choose. Commit to putting all your energy into it for this period. Like honestly, really commit to it. Don't be lazy. When you're mind wanders, which it will, don't judge yourself, but bring your attention right back to the inquiry. Set a simple but, more importantly, genuine intention to become conscious of what you are, believe in your intention and believe that it can be done. Really cultivate a desire to know what you are. Then, bring your attention to the present moment. Get real focused and concentrated on the present moment and the process of observation (i.e. self-observation). Take a minute or so to just observe what it is in your direct experience. Realise that there isn't anything but your direct experience. So anything else that you think might exist is just a concept. Then, ask yourself 'What Am I?'. Get a real, honest, genuine, answer. What do you honestly think you are right now. Honestly! Right now! Put aside all ideas and beliefs about what you are that you might have heard from Leo or read about on this forum. I say 'put aside' because your conceptual understanding of what you are is necessary in order to avoid wasting lots of time. But for the purposes of your inquiry, put everything aside, and start from scratch as though you've never heard of Nothingness or Consciousness or whatever. All you need is your direct experience. When you have a genuine and really honest answer about what you think you are, then contemplate it. Can this thing, a body, a thought, a feeling, or whatever, be what I am? Is this thing I am aware of what I truly am? And obviously you don't just question your beliefs once, you question them many many many times.

Well, if we define Metaphysics as the investigation of being, then it is squarely-relevant to enlightenment. The problem is anything you say will be a story existentially speaking. If it has import concerning "being being" which is what is relevant to enlightenment, it will only serve as scaffolding to help you act, think, and be better (including how you "be" regarding clinging to and interpreting beliefs in specific moments). Investigate theory all you want, just don't cling to any ideology about enlightenment too-rigidly. Don't be too mechanical or ideological across-the-board, only if a specific moment calls for this. The territory laughs at the pretense of the map. The map is acting way beyond it's pay-grade! And it duddn't even realize this! That's our problem. Let the mystical-spark of being have the last-word over thought-story or belief staking their claim over your infinite-nature. Don't let thought turn you into something that is finite and thus not infinite. This all hinges ultimately on how "you" cling to and interpret thought in specific moments. Get this wrong, and you're gonna self-sabotage in life to a greater or lesser-extent. Get this right and you'll have emotional-mastery and freedom. Then you can do whatever you have mind to do without inner-obstacles resisting. Your actions and your will can finally both unify and dissolve into nothingness.

Info: I'm currently writing an essay and started drinking caffeine again after 3 months. I've been obsessed with the thought of doing psychedelics in the last few days, haven't done any yet, just read a few reports and so on. I've been meditating daily for almost a year now. So after a few hours of writing I got tired, went to bed and slept for 3 hours. In my dream, I had the exact same situation: (dream is in italic script) I knew I drank two red bull, I layed in my bed and wanted to sleep, but I couldn't. I rolled on my side, closed my eyes and saw the darkness behind my eyelids. I became aware of the fact that even when I close my eyes and I'm alone, I have a thought running which is basically a self image of me lying in bed with closed eyes (huge insight, I checked this when I was awake and it's the most subtle ego thought ever). I suddenly felt how the feeling of my body melted across the bed, down to the floor, like slime. My thoughts were: "Holy shit, it's happening, everything I heard Leo talk about and the trip reports I read, it's happening to me right now!" I knew I was going to "die" and stop existing (felt more like becoming infinite nothingness...). I became anxious and started focusing on my breath to bring my awareness back to the body, which worked. I then reached for my phone to call an ambulance cause I knew something was really wrong mentally, but realized it's not my phone, ran outside to search for help and so on... Then I woke up and I knew even though it was a dream, it was the most intense experience of my life. The more time passed, the more I forgot how it was, but I'm not going to forget the importance of the initial thought of it being intense. I know these words won't give any of you the feeling of this, but holy shit I'll wait with tripping for a while now... The other thing is the insight I got. It's like all these subtle thoughts of us being in the body and what we are, hold us back from being open. The ego is working all the time and we're only little aware of it, but the more alert we become, we start to see these small sneaky thoughts and realize that this is not actually us. By that we can erase the boundaries and really start to connect with people. (I realized Im saying the same shit everyone else says But it's not words for me anymore, there are mental pictures now linked to the experience in the dream, which partially completes the knowledge about it.)

You mean being aware of your thoughts as thoughts and not you ? Because being aware only of awareness itself and being aware of nothingness would mean you realize some kind of enlightenment experience.

@Joseph Maynor Yes, this is normal. When the monkey mind gets calmer as you are describing, you start to embody more of alpha and theta brainwaves(a calmer state) and less beta brainwave activity (mental sounds). After a while, almost no mental sounds are present. This means that you embodied a calmer state of mind. This does not mean you ridded yourself of the mind or that you transcended the mind, it just became less obvious that the mind is still in operation, because you cannot hear internal thoughts. However this is far from transcending the mind so be careful, the mind can still play tricks with you in fact after you embody a state of perfect mental calmness (no mental sounds) the mind can still play tricks with you almost 24/7. The mind uses projections from the past/future and those projections project themselves onto the now moment. Monkey mind, the mind that's not present = hearing mental sounds, past and future thoughts... The present mind = no mental sounds because it is present, still has a grip on you and controls you, still attached and still identified with the mind... No mind = no mental sounds, ability to detach from the mind on demand, ability to act arational, you can use the mind like a servant and not let the mind use you, discernment, identified with nothingness - consciousness - God - awarness, no self.... This is not some theory I have heard somewhere this is actually a timeline I have gone trough and experienced. People who think that being present with no monkey mind is the answer to end suffering and identification with the mind are dead wrong, it is funny.

That was "my" problem too. Maybe you need to talk to someone about your struggle to find out the solution. I know that the solution for your problem is to do N O T H I N G and allow truth/reality/nothingness to act on you and while it does this, sit and do N O T H I N G and stop wraping your mind around what you gotta' do. The truth isn't somewhere, it is there your only solution is to surrender to it. I have done that and i feel more peaceful already.

I never really introduced myself properly haven't I? Maybe it's time I tell you what's life been like with meditation even before. Rewind to 2012 or 2013, where I was about 11 or 12. I remember sitting in a car, the sun sitting in the sky, the trees and the cars shifting by. I was listening to a guided meditation. And I noticed they kept moving off to the next thing without me. I was too slow in focusing. I kept daydreaming about being some hero in a virtual reality game. And with fear, I wondered if I could really do all this. I was worried back then. Worried about what? Everything. I worried about my health. I worried about my future. I worried about my grades. I worried about being loved. I worried about being watched. I worried about being irrational. Worrying, worrying and worrying to the point of terror sometimes. Pretty early for a kid to be worrying about life like that, huh? Someday I realized that I had the whole internet full of advice and I found meditation. After all, the greatest lost I had back then was the lost of curiosity. I was the bright eyed kid who was somehow both the class nerd and the class clown. Often sitting upon pillows in the library. Often relaxing as I flip pages and other times running away laughing from pranks. I read things from fun facts about animals to machines. I read about the history of the Greeks to the daring lives of real life spies. I made origamis and I often drew from art books. I read stories upon stories. I was interested in about every part of the children's library. And I hoped in my heart that this sense of wonder would come back. One of the things I've often read were question and answer advice sites online — my first taste of the personal development world. I read but I never really acted on them. I even prided on just knowing them — but this was when I had to actually do them. For years along with other practices I'd meditate everyday. Or at least try to. I'd always do so in the bus to school in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon. I researched what I could on this subject and I'd practice focusing through the day and through the night. Around 14, sometimes I would lose the ability to read. All my worrying had consumed all of my brain power and what was left for me to do the thing I loved most disappeared. I remember sitting on the couch pouring over a book and desperately glaring at it to read ; but I . . . I couldn't focus. And the tears would start to come. This would add in my life an even greater obsession with the practice. There were days when I meditated 2-3 hours a day. By 15, I'd stop repeating the old practices and begin with newer ones. The closest thing to the idea of enlightenment I had was an existential depression I had when I was 15. In one of Leo's infinity videos, he'd mention that Georg Canter was able to conceptualize infinity or non duality but because he did not experience it directly, it drew him to madness. I might have experienced something similar. I asked myself one day : Why do I believe this exists? Take any object. Why do I believe this chair exists? Because I see it. Why do I think what I see exists? Because other people have always told me. Why do I believe that? And I understood — there was nothing to add foundation to that. I've read in history books before that people could experience dangerous things because humanity was ignorant. Doctors didn't use to know that washing their hands before surgery was needed. They used to have wallpaper that was radioactive. They used to think sugar was healthy. I was on too doubting much of reality here — if I had Leo's videos, it would allow me to be more open minded in ways that can help me. But without the grounding of direct experience — this experience of nothingness enligtenment wasn't calming — it was strikingly, absolutely and fucking terrifying. Somewhere I decided that there really nothing else to it. Beliefs have to start with faith somewhere. Every belief does. And after reading some online advice, I spent more time in my life doing to answer questions than just theorizing. And realizing and acting upon slowly that my time spent alone too much was one of the major reasons I was suffering. All the time spent in mindfulness would add up — and soon I can focus on something I find interesting for hours. As well as make goofy and overdramatic jokes with other people like I did as a kid — heh. I had a favorite Buddhist concept after all. That was beginner's mind — it is to act as you know nothing about the subject. And be open to observe what else could happen. To see the subtle change of breath. Its movements. The small changes in the mind, thoughts and emotions that happened every second. It was impermeance. And if things were always changing, then there was always something interesting to learn every second. But also the idea that truth changes because the world is changing. . . And so beliefs had to be change as well. My awareness would grow exponentially. Growing and growing and growing to the forefront of everyday life. I've never been so amazed and awed by the smallest things — when you see everything as if for the first time. I used this in meditation. . . but it also became a way of life..

That's good, being aware of nothingness, nice

I think your problem is with the word 'nothingness'... Not sure in what context you came across the statement 'Nothingness is self aware' and for me just this statement alone doesn't mean anything at all. But I can see what the author would have meant and I can elaborate on it. What is a 'thing'? It can be anything that can be witnessed by your senses or in the consciousness. By this definition, a thought is also a 'thing'. So, you, who witnesses any thing cannot be a thing. It is a no-thing . The word no-thingness is probably more clear than nothingness. You keep trying to conceptualize who you are... Anyway, if you think your inner voice is self-aware, thats ok for now. Just go ahead with what you are practicing, if it is working for you..

@Shanmugam but yet the teaching says that Nothingness is self aware. Than why can't my inner voice be self aware?

@ajasatya then if someone who is Enlightened is so sure that the Ultimate Truth is pure Nothingness and knowing it is so relieving and beautiful why does not he suicide and end the physical body and ego completely?

@egoless Don't try to look for pure awareness... You can never find it as an object because that is the subject itself.. Everything is happening in the field of consciousness, which is the subject.. The problem doesn't arise when you keep witnessing the thoughts... It only arises when try to do something, like contemplation of concepts such as nothingness and awareness... When it happens, witness the thought that contemplates.. Just observe those thoughts as they occur with full attention. Once you try to contemplate on such concepts, you are moving away from being a witness. Your consciousness is like the sky and thoughts are like clouds.. Witness the contents of your consciousness just like witnessing the moving clouds.. When a thought such as 'is this nothingness? how can I find nothingness' arises, it is also a thought, it is also like a cloud in the sky of consciousness. Recognize that thought for what it is, witness that thought passing by and be curious about what your next thought is going to be.