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What has to be understood is that male sexuality is both personal and impersonal in the same way that female sexuality is both personal and impersonal. It is the same thing as any animal. Let’s take a cat for example. All cats will be fundamentally similar to one another. But if you’ve ever had a cat as a pet, you will know that their personalities are unique. So, male sexuality (as a general instinct) is two-fold. On one hand, you have the more reptilian brain stuff. This includes the desire for dominance and variety. It is most interested in seeking sex with as many fertile women as possible. And this makes a man most attuned to young women who he can claim as his own and impregnate to spread his genetic material as widely as possible. This part competes with other men hierarchically to impregnate as many women as possible. And to this part of him women are 100% interchangeable. On the other hand, you have the prefrontal cortex stuff. This is the part of the man that is pro-social that is interested in building community around himself. This is the part of him that is interested in love and friendship with a woman. And it is interesting in caring for and supporting his partner and family. This drive isn’t as spicy as the other drive but it is deeper and more gratifying... as long as his other drive is not being squelched. But of course, every man is unique. Some men are naturally geared towards one more than the other. And some men are repressed relative to one or the other. But every man has a lion and a lion tamer in him. No two lions are exactly the same. No two lion tamers are exactly the same. But all lions share similarities with other lions. And all lion tamers have a similar function to other lion tamers.

Contemplate on how you've always been constructing & projecting *self-referential meanings* while deriving your sense of self from being the ego. Now think about the most triggering, judgemental & hurtful self-referential thought you ever had as a child. It really hurt, right? Why does that thought not hurt you anymore while recalling it now that you are an adult? Well, it's because you are not identified with being that child anymore. It's like, now that you're no longer identified with the 'child ego-mind', thinking that thought feels as 'impersonal' as hearing about other's opinions & judgements they have about themselves. Your ego-mind morphed into another version of itself now. In the initial stages of awakenings, one of the facets of the process is You basically realizing that you are That which is aware of the ego, you realize the personhood have been dreamed up by You all along. As you awaken deeper and deeper, there will come a point when there will be no difference between admiring your 'human face' in the mirror & watching the sunset. No difference between what you call 'other people's eyes' & 'your eyes'. Up & down. And so on. And I mean recognizing the substance of all form & ideas. Pure divinity. Just ISness Clear Direct As the *ego dissolution* starts getting 'deeper' and 'deeper', Awareness/You recognizes that you've never been an individual/human self/ego-mind. It's pure imagination. You see Yourself in everything & everyone. You stop getting things personally. You become Love.

Just continue to share you views, and simply observe. More people will be sharing their stories as time unfolds. Like his God realization video, and he Exercise for realizing you are God video... Either it's really just ME. JUST THIS BUBBLE EXPERIENCE PRETENDING YOU BE ON A FORUM. Or, he is dangerously talking people into solipsism where it is like, just you and Leo because you 'Created Leo'... No. Sure, as God the universal me created and allowed all things. But, not you or me. We are part of this impersonal process. But, if it was just YOU, or just ME... Why would I create this forum? Where there is seemingly other people interacting. I mean, think supply chains, populations, politics, survival etc... All of this is because there are many beings here on this planet. I think there are many times when he has not made it clear this difference between maybe what is ABSOLUTE, and what is Relatively TRUE. But, for the sake of your life what is relatively true it far more important to your well being. People have no fucking idea what is true already... People are so uneducated, self deceived, ego centric, immature. Look at both myself in some context and people like Connor Murphy. I am sure for every 1 famous Connor Murphy there have been 1000's of other fools no one knows about because they have no platforms for us to know. Hey, maybe going insane is part of your process. But, if it can be avoided we all as a community need to ask more powerful questions and take more collective responsibility (as Leo loves to pout... but his embodiment is not complete in any regard). I personally think the world needs an Actualized.org. So, I am here to support Leo as well as anyone. We need to seriously look out for each other. I am here for you guys as long as I am welcome in this space. We are all fail-able. This is serious shit.

You have more work to do. There is nobody to claim consciousness. Consciousness is sovereign, and you are speaking as a human being. "You" as javfly did not make a single thing. If you think your mind is real and everyone else is a figment of your mind, you're delusional, not awakened. Consciousness is impersonal—it created you as well as everything else. One wave does not make the entire ocean around it.

death is the boundary between personal consciousness and impersonal consciousness; death ends the dream and releases consciousness back to the absolute... true or false when the absolute manifested and objectified into the universe, it split consciousness in two, a subject and a object ... this was the only way for god to love itself the subject consciousness depends on and is housed by this body but will quit projecting this universe once the subject perishes

@spinderella "MY consciousness" is not a thing. Consciousness is impersonal. It is the thing from which personhood (and everything else) arises. However, "MY awareness" is more accurate (but still untrue). Awareness is a perspective that occurs within consciousness. Awareness is the ability to focus and differentiate "things" out of consciousness. "Your" body is a form of awareness, as it allows for seeing, hearing, breathing, etc. In a sense, it is a contraction of consciousness that you experience as a perspective. I am putting pronouns in quotation marks, as awareness is actually the reason for the illusion of separateness. Because you are aware, reality appears as if you were the center of it. Therefore, it is the precondition of the appearance of the separate self ("mine", "yours", etc). Awareness is not "yours", because awareness precedes "you".

@flume I actually did not know that Leo made such a video until this thread, and even then I haven't watched it. Apparently, my reasoning for cheating is quite different from the video. I agree with you here. In my view, it doesn't matter how good the sex is or how beautiful, great, smart, and funny the woman is. When a man cheats on his woman, it's almost always about him, not about her. Male sexuality is very impersonal. Even if she's the world's most beautiful woman and the world's greatest mother and all the great things in the world, at some point his attraction towards her will decrease and then he will start seeking other women even if they're "less" than her. And "less" here is his own rational judgement. So, he actually knows and understands and even appreciates all the good things that she is, but he will still seek another sexual partner, regardless. So, yes, you shouldn't seek to keep your man loyal. Good sex for men is not the same thing as good sex for women. Good sex for men is mostly physical and perceptive (has to do with the senses, sights, sounds, etc...). Emotional connection is not a prerequisite for good sex for men, even though it's definitely appreciated. You needn't get triggered here, it's just practical advice. However, bad sex is very different from no sex at all. No sex at all is his responsibility, while bad sex is her responsibility. Easy for you to say these things when you don't have the same urges. And they are indeed powerful urges. No kidding. It's not necessarily "bad" or a "problem", but I see your point. And "cheating" doesn't necessarily break that commitment. Of course, that assumes there aren't already huge problems existing within the relationship, like lack of trust and communication. If there are already huge problems, then cheating is not really the actual problem, but really a scapegoat for and a doubling-down on the lack of communication. Either way, I would inquire into why people take it so seriously and consider it very threatening to the relationship. Agreed.

Projecting happens in every stage, more so in Orange, Blue and below. What is so specific for Green? What Green topics are impersonal?

? Or: You’re always letting go... However in either case there isn’t actually someone doing it. It’s the letting-go that nobody can do. It’s a totally impersonal play.

I believe that the impersonal, attributeless, formless witness Consciousness "moves around inside different forms."

Ironically I had no plans of continuing this journal. I started a new journal and it got deleted with the data loss. Lately I've been so busy and so energetic that I haven't been writing that much. The daylight hours are so long it's hard to sleep and there's so much to DO. It felt great until a couple days ago when I started to feel like I'd been on vacation too long and was starting to get homesick. Funny that our vacations are mostly full of activity. I listened to the beginning of an Eckhart Tolle video that autoplayed while I was working and someone asked how they could reconcile what he teaches with Abraham Hicks (without naming her). He said that there's the inward and outward movements, the creating and dying back. As an explanation within duality, I equate this with seasons, I generally feel great about the busy, energetic seasons and then loathe the winter, yet understand one depends on the other. This turned into such a huge pattern of suffering over the years, that seems so silly and impersonal. Before the shift I had I almost got stuck in idolizing the spiritual winter stage, then discovering the law of attraction resulted in huge experiential understandings which in turn after the fact may have flipped the balance. The belief that happiness comes from conditions, that happiness comes from events, circumstances and things and is something that someone can have and something someone can lose or secure is so sneaky. You actually create best when you aren't expecting anything from it, this is the essence of creation. I guess that's why I like journaling. I like the amount of focus that trying to explain something in a way that someone else might understand helps me find me on a certain subject. When I'm journaling on my own, it's often lazy and lacks flow and intention. Yet, I also don't really expect anyone to read it or get anything from it, it's for me. So it tricks me into finding a good balance. I got stuck in this really self centered perspective that I was the chosen one. Years ago I adored and kept contemplating this line from the Sia song, "I'm still fighting for peace." And I want it, I want my life so bad I'm doing everything I can Then another one bites the dust It's hard to lose a chosen one You did not break me I'm still fighting for peace Funny when you put the song lyrics together with this video I made. "It's hard to lose a chosen one." How strong this narrative has been of the chosen one. Jesus Christ. Harry Potter. The hero's journey. Essentially you are your own chosen one. You are your perspective. And so much more, you are all the possibilities and the choosing. In the narrative anyone who chooses himself is a narcissistic asshole. "I volunteer as tribute." Because if I don't I loose lose someone I love, someone weaker than I. Jesus Christ. I must do this only as a sacrifice, to save others. I make myself infamous, I make myself eternal in the story, eternally heroic and loved by sacrificing myself for others. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You're telling me now, that this as an ideal is suffering? This is all bullshit? Jesus, is co-dependence love? Hello? Hello? C-can you hear me? I can be your China doll, if you like to see me fall Boy, you're so dope, your love is deadly Tell me life is beautiful They think that I have it all I've nothing without you All my dreams and all the lights mean Nothing without you All my dreams and all the lights mean Nothing, if I can't have you

Detachment feels like a forced action. It's a word that implies there is a separate individual which can attach or detach from something. Awakening is recognizing the individual that seems to attach to certain things or outcomes never actually existed. Apparent happenings become impersonal sort of speak.

Doesn’t being identified usually precede desiring? Also, is all suffering the same? I’ve copied and pasted the following several times in the forum. No one has ever really commented on it one way or another. Four types of suffering For whatever it’s worth,,, Intentional suffering is sometimes referred to as Conscious suffering in the Fourth Way. In Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, Bennett distinguishes four types of suffering - Unnecessary Suffering, Unavoidable Suffering, Voluntary Suffering and Intentional Suffering. Lets have a look at each of these to see if they can help our understanding: The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance. The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death. Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades. And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. Bennett assumes that this is what Gurdjieff meant by Intentional Suffering. From an article on the second Conscious Shock https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_is_talk_ae2005.htm

the idea of death is a great meditation tool. nothing is more contrary to the ego than death. everything you say about fear of getting old, wasting your life, etc., is pure ego. There is nothing like a good or bad life, only the present moment, free of judgment. if you stick in the present and free the mind of thoughts, the fear of death disappears, because it is seen that the impersonal amplitude that you are cannot die. it is the same for any being, and if your body disappears, there are still countless other bodies existing. But of course, forget about your ego, there will be nothing left of it. that's why you have to die before you die. generously surrender the i. Or not so generously, i surrender it to gain the permanence and the beauty, maybe that's why each time i do i have a big ego reaction. The no ego is full of beauty , but empty of content. The ego hates that emptiness

Exactly. If you look at yourself from the point of view of death, you will see that your "I", your sense of yourself, never existed. it was a mirage. but being, existence, cannot not be. what happens is that it is impersonal, empty.

Four types of suffering For whatever it’s worth,,, I copied this from the thread on George Gurdjieff. A legitimate swatter of hornets nests,,,, Intentional suffering is sometimes referred to as Conscious suffering in the Fourth Way. In Talks on Beelzebub's Tales, Bennett distinguishes four types of suffering - Unnecessary Suffering, Unavoidable Suffering, Voluntary Suffering and Intentional Suffering. Lets have a look at each of these to see if they can help our understanding: The first is Unnecessary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we incur because of our unreasonable attitudes and expectations towards others, from our ill-will, hatred and rejection of others, from doubt, possessiveness, arrogance and self pity. In other words, suffering arising from our self-importance. The second is Unavoidable Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that comes to us by accident or from events beyond our control, such as interpersonal conflicts, war, disaster, disease or death. Third, we have Voluntary Suffering. This would be the type of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish a personal aim, such as an athlete who disciplines himself to win a race, or a student who labours to get good grades. And finally we have Intentional Suffering. According to Bennett, this would be the kind of suffering that we take upon ourselves in order to accomplish an impersonal or altruistic goal, one that is directed more towards service to others or to the Work, and not for any personal gain. Bennett assumes that this is what Gurdjieff meant by Intentional Suffering. From an article on the second Conscious Shock https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_is_talk_ae2005.htm

but to what extent can you be enlightened? I guess quite deeply. I see reality as about to dissolve, a screen of color, like a set behind what is emptiness. I talk to people and I see their emptiness, they are just forms ... like me! but what is behind, that void, seems unknowable . it is nothing, it is completely impersonal, not human, but somehow it has to be intelligent, it is enough to observe the apparent reality to deduce the intelligence of the absolute. But how can the absolute be intelligent if it is nothing? because obviously, it is not "something". We are the absolute right now, and it's impersonal. Is impossible to understand that there is void, nothing, like an abyss. Think about that is insane, maybe that's why the mistics always says that it's uncognwable. Except Leo, of course

Think about it this way... You are not *perceiving* other people, so what is happening is that you're having a conscious direct experience of infinity manifesting itself in different ways. Where is 'your' Consciousness located? Where is the present moment occuring? The present moment is in fact impersonal consciousness/God experiencing whatever you're conscious of in the 'Now', because 'in the now' you are conscious, so everything is happening in your awareness, since you're Consciousness itself. ❤ So when you say "imagining infinite dreams symultaneously', "experiencing them separately" etc, you assume the present moment is separate from consciousness. Which is not the case. The present moment is You being conscious. Time is imaginary.

Impersonal Consciousness cannot feel alone. The ego-mind does.

Im here to help! You can unlock levels of imagination that are unimaginable! Kind of like your dreams, you have way more imagination when you are impersonal. Don't try to imagine things, but rather see what your imagination has in store, you just be the observer of it. If you can see black only, thats a great start. You have the canvas. Now you can imagine a white dot on it? Try enlarging the dot. Imagine it in another colour. Imagine the black only as another colour too. Zoom in, zoom out, play around that plane of imagination. Start small. In my opinion if you start imagining dots, lines, circles, triangles, basic shapes, then your mind will get the building blocks to imagine more complex things further. Or get more tuned with the imaginative part of yourself. You can try a visualisation technique I like which is to go to the edge of your experience now and "see" what is beyond there. You might get an impression of seeing something from your imagination. Even if not, just do not identify with what you saw and centre as the empty (or otherwise very small) being that is able to see that space of imagination beyond the edge of your visual perception. Then keep watching for what that empty being sees, and keep grounding as that being - which is not hard as it is the one who sees. Tell me if you get any visualisations from this. Its basically self inquiry using the imaginary plane.

Members seem to be already influenced by the air of demonization. Ever since confessing my condition I've been accused of 'crying', creating drama and being suicidal while discussing impersonal opinions.

They can be both, but ad hominems are often directly addressing some personal quality which deviates from the content of the discussion. For example, if you said that you think math is often portayed as more useful than it truly is, an ad hominem answer to that could be "you think that because you're stupid". Ad hominem is essentially when you turn an initially impersonal discussion into a personal matter when it isn't warranted or appropriate.

An awakening with ego also present can be much more pleasant than an experience which is more impersonal. It speaks to the story you’ve just lived. It satisfies that. It explains that. It breaks the limitations of that. If both awakenings were of the same intensity, I’d prefer to awaken in this reality due to the emotional significance of your human life. You living that specific incarnation was not a mistake.

Probably if we use that type of language. I think it more like this. Impersonal divine (higher self) permanent individuality (soul) and present personality (ego). The journey is to transcend the false personality and have the permanent individuality to take over. Then unite the individuality with the higher self and achieve the goal of yoga ( union ). The permanent individuality might be the higher self you are talking about. It is that which reincarnates but also eternal. It is not the ONE but it's goal is to unite with the ONE. All past life memories are stored there. You may not remember but it knows. You are it but also not. It absorbs spiritual experience you have and exalts itself through you. Hint: it is also the thinker but not the thought process.

To get an understanding of the pre trans fallacy while learning the Spiral Dynamics model helped me to have an understanding that truly felt like resolving several disparities at once. It grew my Worldview and stretched my frame of reference. It seems that the impersonal aspects that come into play in the trans personal stage and states are often misinterpreted by others as being cold and uncaring. Just one more aspect of the pre trans fallacy. Thunderstorms have knocked out my electric. I’m pecking away on my cell phone with not a whole lot of battery left.