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Me? I don't really have any desire or amusement from slapping someone. I used to have a punching bag though and it was a good stress reliever and a way to let out explosive energy. Appreciate the kind words, I'm just recycling information that reality/the universe has given me, they all came from somewhere else, someone else, and it's forever changing experiences. The only things I am sure of as a constant never changing exprience is the silence/emptiness/nothingness that is not changing. I remember a quote somewhere maybe it was here on this forum: a man asked a blind man "what is it like to be blind? is it dark/black? The blind man replied "What is it like to not see from the back of your head?" what would the world look like if we had echolocation

He's still at it. This entire thread: Robert "your opinion is wrong, your logic is wrong, nothingness is not real, your experiences are invalid, go meditate more to be at my level". & "I know it all, my opinion is the best, my logic is truth, I know everything you know nothing, listen to me, STUPIDS!" & "stop putting words in my mouth!!!" Trolling with a sprinkle of saltiness. You win man, you are right! PS. i dont even know what we are debating about, all i remember is robert just disagreeing and ridiculing others whilst quoting them.

Fair point, although i wonder if there are some sentient beings which a car indeed could NOT hurt. (For example, for all we know some extraterrestrial life could be so alien to us that we can't even interact with them, including with cars. Or maybe the Earth herself has some kind of subjective experience... Although im sure she would dislike cars smh global warming). "Objective" to me actually means what is the nature of something regardless of any life form / subjective perspective of it. This almost necessitates that there is no objectivity. What does a car look like ovjectively, despite any subjective take on it? Pure nothingness, black hole singularity etc. Tbf the question doesn't make sense... to look like something requires subjectivity. You would think "well mass energy charge and other fundamental qualities etc of an object (like the ability to run humans over) ARE objectively intrinsic qualities of those objects"... which makes perfect sense from our human intuition... however modern physics is strongly supporting that things have no intrinsic qualities on their own independent of the observation of them. There aren't even any "things" independent of our experience of them. For example, the photon that was not in a location / in every location / transcended "location" that was suddenly in spot A when observed... There wasn't actually a photon doing any of that, only the appearance of a photon (and the appearance of a scientist looking for the photon...) Similarly for a car running @Faceless over and killing him. Not to act like it's nbd.... The pain would appear to be real as would the grief it caused to all of us actualizers who enjoy reading his far out posts!

Eyeballs and black holes.... nothingness / singularity.

Holy crap! That's so much stuff to try and learn to live in nothingness. But like they say, nothing worth achieving is easy

Well that’s true in the sense that the description is never the described. TRUTH CAN NOT BE COMMUNICATED IN ITSELF. I LITERALY MEAN THIS IMMEASURABLE NOTHINGNESS IS NOT REMEBERED BECAUSE THERE WAS NO EXPERIENCER THERE TO RECOGNIZE AND RECORD A WORLD OF THINGS. WHEN THIS HAPPENES I DONT RECAL THIS “HAPPENING” THERE IS JUST A COMING TO. ITS QUITE STRANGE INDEED.

Nothingness is real, it is the only constant in my being I'm sorry you haven't seen it, "Where is that moon that never rises or sets, where is that soul that is neither with nor without us, Don't say it is here or there, all creation is "that" but for the eyes that can see." "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about. Ideas, language, even the phrase “each other” doesn’t make any sense. The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you. Don’t go back to sleep. You must ask for what you really want. Don’t go back to sleep. People are going back and forth across the doorsill where the two worlds touch. The door is round and open. Don’t go back to sleep.”

Everything ends. There is no me at all. Goes beyond words. Even the imagination ceases to operate. The thing, is I’m not quite sure what I said above in your thread, because my memory of this doesn’t exsist. Everything I say to you is very partial. As I don’t recollect this immeasurable/nothingness. There is no-thing “self” there to record. So my description is “extremely” partial indeed. THATS WHY I SAY “SEE FOR YOURSELF”

Thanks faceless! This is great! This is where words ends, and the unnamable nothingness "unfolds"(but NOT within time) Namaste.

This is all an idea/theory unless thought ACTUALLY and TOTALLY ceases to move.... Without thought, when the center comes to an end, there is no duality taking place. There is no entity that is self aware, as that implies the veil of thought “knowledge, experience, memory” is still in movement. There is no here or there, this or that, and no other type of reference points in that sense. There is no movement of memory/experience interpreting at all. When there is no experiencer/experience determining and interfering with what is, there is only the UNNAMABLE/IMMEASURABLE. This is Nothingness THE ULTIMATE FREEDOM

Without the ego, what are you? An utter emptiness, nothingness, no-thingness. It is because of this that the ego apparently exists, it is indeed to create order. The ego is needed for self-preservation and self-worth etc, it's a primitive thing but necessary in the process of development. Ultimately the ego just IS, only with the ceasing of thoughts does the ego die. Only a few does that. This is beyond a simple ego-death where the ego always comes back.

Going to burst some bubbles here. This whole I need to help others and society is a mind created concept, the only reason you find it important is because you and your beliefs have given it importance. Also there is a lot of brain washing in society and spirituality how "we should help others". It is futile, its like saying I want to stop animal slaughter, or I want to protect the ants, or the plants or the rocks from harm. Every path is a valid path, if it exists it's reality, it's creations/God's will. Just worry about living your life the way you want, expressing your genuine self. Just imagine your future and where you're going to be in your death bed, now what will make you the most happy about your life what would have been a fullfilling life FOR YOU? For example if you said: Travelling the world and seeing all corners and experiencing all culture and seeing as much as possible before you die. Then you have no business helping others really. The reason why people like helping others is for selfish reasons, they feel better, more alive, more useful if you want that that then do that but not everyone is going to feel great about helping others, some people will outright hate helping others and can't stand it, that's fine too, no need to be miserable because of "shoulds" not every mind is built to enjoy the same things. Life is what you make of it, what you design out of it, what you value and what you put importance to. Nothing has inherited importance, you're born out of nothingness, everyone one you help on this planet, isn't going to exist in your consciousness once you drop the illusion of "this current body". In a way all your doing is helping people in your dream, better to focus on enjoying your dream to the maximum. And remember CONSQEUNCES! Don't do negative stuff if you dont accept or want the consquences.

Some people call the only substance there is to reality for consciousness, others call it nothingness. What ever you call it - void, oneness, God's only being, consciousness, nothingness, pure light, infinite eternal awareness etcetera - after all, that's just a bunch of words, concepts that is. However, let's agree on the fact that there is only ONE substance(whatever that should be named) that makes up for everything that is known to us as realty(aka the inner(awareness) and outer world). But! Is there any way to prove that there is only this ONE substance to reality? Any proof at all? This one substance can transform itself to matter, minerals, plants, animals, humans, minds, worlds, stars, galaxies - you name it. But how can we be sure there aren't more the ONE fundamental substance that makes everything come in to existence? Why not two, three or even more substances that coexist and aren't "born" out of any of the other substances? Here's one great clip regarding "What is the Substance of Experience?"

Does even the label "we" exist according to reality? The "we" indicates that we are unified but when I say "we", it only really means the human race... I think, personally, we are just more than humans. We shouldn't identify ourselves as humans but as reality (I'm sure you all know this, and yet here I am, thinking I'm human). We put our awareness on ourselves when that awareness is created by the human (agree to disagree but just an insight)? Maybe the awareness/conciseness exist because reality made it exist, but it's like a nightmare because we identify this awareness/consciousness so much that we trick ourselves to being just humans when in actual fact, we are the WHOLE thing. it causes doubt, existential crisis and for some people, be pulled into dogmatic ideologies I am both the stars, planets, nothingness, human, literally the whole universe. Being human is only one segment It's an important question to ask

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum but have been following Actualized.org for about two years. Here I describe a possible analogy for the enlightened self with a short into in brackets below: (I believe I experienced non-egoic consciousness/ had an enlightenment experience recently. There was huge shift in perspective for me and suddenly all of Leo's videos on the true self/ enlightenment made a lot of sense. The experience made me want to delve deeper into this area and this post is simply a request for Leo or others who have experienced this to determine if this analogy I'm about to share fits in with our understanding of what the true self actually is . The analogy is simply for me and others to understand the true self better (given that this analogy I share fits in with our understanding). The analogy: The true self is the nothingness that existed before the big bang. Imagine a white orb on a black background. According to our current understanding of the universe, all that existed came from this extremely dense "thing" that exploded and gave rise to the universe. Given that the true self is nothing, and everything occurs within the true self, and the true self is infinite, could the nothingness that encapsulates everything in the universe (at this point condensed into the orb) be the true self or even an analogy to the true self? A secondary explanation may help: for those that have experienced a phenomenon in videogames where you glitch and fall through the map into a void, could this empty, infinite void be analogous to the true self?

If there is a want this implies experience/thought/duality is in movement and has projected a “wanting from a wanter” If this is the case truth “nothingness” is not.

Only when experience/experiencer ends is there nothingness. Personal experience implies the past “knowledge, past experience, through memory” therefore a projection of thought. This is a fact. Explore. It’s quite interesting indeed.

As long as thought is in movement there will remain identification with things. NO-THOUGHT NO-THINGS NO-EXPERIENCE NO-EXPERIENCER NOTHINGNESS

That makes a lot of sense, at least to me. Here's the thing for everyone on this thread....it's impossible to put any personal experience exactly into words because... "What is said, isn't always what is heard." Anyhow, for the sake of conveying a functional understanding of non-duality, take a metaphor Leo has said which is we are each individually fingers on a hand with infinite "fingers". The fingers each represent a person and their experience/perspective of reality, and the hand represents the source of which yields every perspective. Not too sure what that source is called, perhaps it's nothingness because existence and experience can only "be" if there is an opposing state of being. Ying and Yang. In my opinion, it sounds like you got this figured out!

You can do it all day, it’s really fun! Daydreams aren’t here to be looked down upon, they are telling you that you have a strong emotion in your heart that needs your attention. The stronger the thought, the stronger economic emotion, and the stronger the belief which creates both of them. If you watch your thoughts and emotions throughout your day you will naturally uncover these core beliefs that drive them! But in that case I’d recommend that you try concentrating on your heart in meditation. You will have hardly any thoughts until you engage in a addictive tendency for the rest of the day This returns you to the source of infinite nothingness which you can reach consistently with practice. It will increase your awareness thus making it effortless to observe thoughts and emotions throughout the day. I hope this helps you.

Only if one is bound by time they speak from perspective. This is the whole point, if you are merely accumulating info you are time bound. This is a movement of contradiction, duality, and implies that the accumulater is separate from that which they accumulate. It’s not about accumulation of info. It’s about understanding oneself completely and in that understanding dualistic movement ends. That implies a total emptying of everything mind has constructed. If you don't understand yourself you are blind to your own limitation. Accumulation never leads to emptiness, NOTHINGNESS. TIMELESSNESS CAN NOT BE LEARNED FROM ANOTHER. NO BOOKS, THEORY, CONCEPTUALIZATION LEADS TO THAT WHICH IS TIMELESS. ONLY SELF KNOWLEDGE/SELF LEARNING DOES. NO AUTHORITY OF ANY KIND, BE IT PERSONAL OR COLLECTIVE CAN HELP YOU TO THAT WHICH IS NAMELESS. INFACT IT ONLY PREVENTS.

The description is never the described. The concept of the ending of time is not the same as actually ending time. To end time implies the timeless. To use time by moving dualistically leads to more time. Verbal description will never bring about a fundamental change and end the dualistic movement of time. Any teacher or sharing that promotes and introdces time to anothers mind is doing them a disservice. Only the “disciple and possibly the teacher” may not even know that is so. They will live there lives in self deception not having actually lived in timelessness. It’s about empying the conditioned conciousness so that NOTHINGNESS becomes actual. Not adding to conciousness another dogma “contradiction” and in so doing all action is born of that contradiction. This implie a dualistic movement in action, which is not a sign of one who lives a nondual life. Ask yourself, do I act as if I live in TOTAL FREEDOM? Do I live a holy life. Am I whole? Is all action “I” take free of duality, division, contradiction? Only that is a sign of one who is ONE with the unnamable/immeasurable.

its a paradox. The mind can't really talk about infinity whilst being so finite. Eternal death would be assuming a dark room for eternity, nothingness is not that.

Well you already know you can lose each individual sense and still live on. the only one that is difficult is the mind/brain. But you see mind has gaps, there is times where you're not thinkin about anything just zoned out, or you could have alzheimers disease in final stages and still be alive, or you could hit your head and have a full identity loss. Or you can get scientists to electricute parts of your brains and have involuntary movement/spasm/reactions, they can remove parts of your brain and change your entire personality function. In zen they say this: "Sweep away thoughts!" means one must do zazen. Once thoughts are quieted, the Original Face appears. Thoughts can be compared to clouds. When clouds vanish, the moon appears. The moon of suchness is the Original Face. Thoughts are also like the fogging of a mirror. When you wipe away all condensation, a mirror reflects clearly. Quiet your thoughts and behold your Original Face before you were born!" You are that before the body was born, you will be that when you die. Once you die it's like you never existed in the first place, again nothingness. Because if I asked you what were you before you were this body what do you remember? you will not know, its just nothingness.

Dude he's talking about a dark room, like that you put someone in a solitary confinment, thats not what nothingness is, its not boredom or darkness or torture. Actually i keep telling you nothingness and existence is the same thing. Everything you see right now is nothingess, awareness is nothingness. It's not a thing. You can change awareness into another word such as "being" or "existence" etc. You're assuming you know what "real" means. How do you know this isn't what nothingness looks like? If we deduct all your sense perceptions what are you left with? There that is your true self. Once you lose, sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, and mind you will find your true self, the nothingness.