Search the Community

No, because that is a pointer. We can point without encapsulating. It's still a model, but much less encapsulating than a definition or 'this is like that'. I can say 'this' or 'this is like that'. The former is much less distorting than the latter. It still assumes a kind of individuation that is problematic. But, we refer to reality as an Idealism for that reason. As an idealism, it is by definition not definable in concepts. We gotta be able to speak. Language is inherently dualistic. But that doesn't mean that reality can be defined in concepts. That is empirically confirmable. That's what makes this kind of expression acceptable to us. We can confirm it empirically. Once you experience nothingness, you realize that reality is the antithesis of a thought. It is that which contains thoughts. But even this container metaphor is just a model. Reality must be observed in itself.

What I am implying there kind of irreverently is that reality cannot be encapsulated by concepts. That's why we use the term 'nothingness' to refer to reality. But we gotta live that not just say it. Saying 'reality is a dream' is like trying to encapsulate a 3-dimensional phenomena into a 2-dimensional model. Almost any statement of the form "Reality is x", where x is a concept, is gonna be technically false. Now, we can speak-loosely in many contexts, but if we're concerned with the highest level of truth, those statements are all technically false. This is why we call reality 'nothingness' or 'everything'. A common mistake I see is people give lip-service to this in theory but oddly forget about it in practice. All that does is cause a nasty trap that will haunt you in this work until you see it and go -- oh shit! -- I've been sloppy -- I got hoodwinked by the Ego/Mind again.

Hey guys, this is a long interview, its more like a short chapter. This is a resource that the most of you can't get, because is not known, it's not commercial, and it only exist in croatian language, and evan in out country it is very rare that someone knows about this. For translating i used google translate, but it think i did a good job, if some sentances dont make seasne i will try my best to explain it, just ask... I would also like to say that she talks often with christian terminology, and maybe her understanding is a bit colored with christian theory and maybe she never heard about non duality and the typical non dual knowledge/sources, however I think its still a bautifull interveiw worth reading. So here we go: Conversation with Edit Majić about Conversion, Call and Life in the Monastery: It is necessary to blindly believe in God and God will overcome fear, to everyone in their own way In the middle of December, our portal brought exclusive news about the former popular Croatian actress Edita Majic, who shocked the local public several years ago by entering one of the strictest religious ranks in the world. Although her entry into the monastery of the bosomous Carmelites in Avila seemed to many as a (pre) radical move, Edita's sister decided to give her life more to Christ in the form of desert life (like a hermin i think). Given the great interest of our readers (as well as the general public) on this topic, we have decided to pass one of the rare, if not the only, interview with Edita published in the last few years, which seems to us deserves more attention. The conversation was originally published in 2013 in the Susret magazine in two parts, and with his sister Edit was led by his brother Dražen Marija of the Eucharistic Jesus Mercy (Dražen Marija Vargašević), a Carmelite monk and one of the founders of the desert-missionary Carmel of Mercy of God on the island of. We believe that you will enjoy this important and rich conversation that, unfortunately, has been relatively unheard of in the Croatian public space. - Praise be to Jesus and Mary, sister Edita! Thank you for your willingness to share your experience of God and spiritual call with our readers. Many of you were known as a theater actress, and perhaps even more famous for your decision to leave the acting call and fully devote yourself to God's religious vows, here in Ávil, at the first monastery of the rebuilt Carmelites who founded the St. Theresa of Jesus. The readers will surely be pleased to get acquainted with your testimony. Can you start telling us what you generally do in life: to go ahead, to discover new things, to act as an actress? What made you feel in your heart and led you to artistic achievement as an actress? From today's perspective I know that what God was wearing through me was always Him (today i know that in my whole life it was only God that was acting trought me). In every situation of life, I was in all my search (God was always there, in me). His presence was there and he was with me and He led me, but at that time I did not know him and I did not know he was present. In my heart I would feel the desire for learning, creating, for art, for beauty, for love, for truth, for the purpose ... All of my ways were actually the search for all that. In the end, they were seeking only Him, because in God I found an answer to all these questions. Not only to the ones I have mentioned, but to all the existing ones, which will ever be set up and ever set by anyone. - So then the wish for God was anonymous, you were not aware ... I was not even aware of it because I had no idea of God at all, I did not know him. I remember when I was like a little girl going to English at the University of Split, maybe I was nine years old. Another girl asked me, "Edita, do you believe in God?" No one ever asked me that. I could not say "yes" or "no". I said, "I do not know." That question then left forever, and perhaps from before, but then it was set. And even though I did everything outside life that I had chosen, I tried to find the answer to that question in my heart: "Who is God?", "Is There?", "Who Is He for Me?", " Do I believe in God? "But in order to believe something, one must know it; and to know something, or someone else, first you must love; and that he may be loved, he must first receive the love to be able to repent, because we are not the creators of love. Only God is love. A lot years later, maybe twenty, the Lord gave me this love. Then I could finally meet him and love him. I thank him forever on everything ... What did you do to the good in that period? Which are you satisfied with that time? Is this just a search? Yes, here's an excerpt. I was a middle school of art. It always seemed to me that what attracted me so much that I would go about it - whether it was music, art, foreign languages, for a while I even trained jumps in the water - they were all like some of my love, let me joy in all this. However, once reached, I would see that there is not much further in all this. In every achievement and play - the joy of the first premiere, the joy of the first bet, something you will do, the joy of being able to give something nice to you - always attracted me. However, after one role, what's next? The second role. After the second - the third and the end of life, I will not say unedogled because end of life ends this sequence. And what I wanted to apologize, when I was one in sixteen, at a high school, we were standing in front of the school, and we talked about what we would be in the future as anyone saw their life. I do not know what happened to me at that point, I said seriously: "If I see that all this makes no sense, I can be a nun." Everyone started to laugh, like, what stupidity I said! However, I was surprised by what I said with certainty and with what belief that the truth was what I was saying: Wait, this could really be, but where is that? Life went on its way over to see if it made any sense (laughter), thinking a lot about it ...: "What is life?" "Real life ..."; "Who am I?"; "Where do I come from?"; "Where am I going?" "Who wanted me to be?" "Right now and here?" "I certainly must not, because I have no memory of ever having asked me to be born. My existence is not the fruit of my will; nor to my parents ... What, then, is the meaning of my existence? ... What is the reason why it is really worth living? If it is only this external ... these few years of living as pleasurable as philosophies "go to and fro," (a saying that is hard to translate, it like in me, for me, under me-hedonism) and then disappear in nothingness, with the body devoted to the feast of worms in some cold grave ... then it is better it will not be at all ... No, there must have been something more; something really worth the effort; something that will end all the longing for the heart to the end and forever; something that will not go wrong with the end of this worldly being, something absolutely, indomitable, eternal ... or was it ... Someone? "... But as I have already said: one show, the other ...; one painting, the other ... I've never been able to fill this up to the end. There has always been a void behind the show. My desire to donate to others, to do something nice, remained after the show just to pay off all the effort if at least one person liked something if anything in the soul changed something more ... anything too little too. And then a bunch of things stirring up the side, a bunch of things that want to get you out of some of the good efforts that are just there because they're in your heart, somebody put them there. But the world, the world we live in, is trying to suffocate in us every spark of light. The world in us wants to suffocate every spark of light and goodness, invites us to selfishness, to hedonism, to fulfill our lusts, to neglect for another, to despise life, to despise everything that is good. I'm talking about the world in a negative sense, not about the world as God's creature, which is good. I'm talking about the world that surrendered the influence of the Evil, absurd, stupid, miserable, and miserable. I'm talking about a world that falls into ruin, into eternal ruin. I'm talking about souls who will die for the second time, about the souls who knowingly give up Love in exchange for a little transient terrestrial joy that is not terrestrial. How did you feel you were loved by God? It is difficult, it is impossible to convey words ... This encounter with God of love was a double one. It can be said that it once happened as a flash, an unexpected gift of his love pouring into your being, absolutely, violently, unequivocally, untenable, and ultimately ending. But all of these details I have been talking about and a lot of them, from birth to this point, were His calls, the hint of His arrival in His love, which I was quite unhappy to experience, to know. It was like a blind man from birth, whose eyes suddenly opened: the eyes of the body, the eyes of the heart, the eyes of the soul. Suddenly everything became clear to me. All the questions I asked had been answered. Through this encounter, through God's Word, through the Holy Mass I went to daily - sometimes two or three times a day at this beginning, though I did not know or respond to my own - simply He carried me, He pulled me by Him, He introduced me u se. I felt obsessed with His love, filled. Nothing was important to me, just to get back to what I received. My wish to be donated, which was in part in various ways, would be said, fulfilled, but not ... here it has now grown to an infinite scale. To be a gift, a gift for Him, a gift to others. To live for Him and for others. To die for Him and for others. Give it to Him and to your neighbor. Give yourself, forget yourself, be like God, not in terms of size and glory, but just the opposite: in the sense of goodness, humility, and this immense love. This can only be achieved if He lives through us, as St. Paul: "I live no more, but Christ lives in me." Many encounter a meeting with the Lord as a powerful turn, conversion. Then it's a long way to go. It is necessary to slowly die for the world, body, evil and to be born into a new life, to become a new man. What in your experience you can advise those who have experienced God's love. How do you grow in it? It is most important to open that love of God to believe in it. For someone who did not know God and has met him at once, the thing may seem strange. After the first enthusiasm, we can see the suspicions of the truth ... It is necessary to go forward, never return to the old age. - Where is the spiritual call to that response to God's love, what does he mean? A spiritual call is always a call from God. Spiritual calling is like faith, an undaunted gift. The Spiritual call is felt in the heart as a desire to be completely belonged to Him, to serve Him alone, to Him Himself eternally and perfectly loving, to please Him in all likelihood. The spiritual call is felt in the heart as a question, "Do you want me to ascend?" As a call to end it to the end, to trust in Him. For the spiritual call of the soul there is no power. A spiritual call is His work, like everything in us. He does everything. Ours is only a little bit, but it is important to him "yes" or "no". Freedom has also been given to us. We can always say "no," but to the soul who truly met God's love, I dare say, it is impossible to say "no" to God's call. - How did you get it? After the first encounter with the Lord, in the first months after the beginning of conversion - which is a lengthy process - the thought and the immense desire to be a nun, and immediately the Carmelite, appeared in me. In prayer I understood that in life I could remain without everything, but absolutely without all except God, without Our Lady. They are the most valuable we have. When we have God, then we have everything, because if something is, it is just because it is in God. If not, he would not have existed. That desire in me was bigger and bigger every day, and I was not sure if this was truly God's will or it was just my turn, my intent after meeting with Him. My whole situation as a actress was a bit peculiar because it seemed to me unlikely that God would like to invite someone who lived a life different from the one who lives a dedicated devotee to God ... Mostly, these doubts made me the greatest pain. If I believed in my doubts that God did not call me, my soul was immensely sad. When I believed in the notion that I did not have a vocation, these were the worst ailments. And in moments when I would believe that there was a possibility that God would call me, I felt like in heaven. That was how it lasted, through prayer, for five years. Besides doing this at the theater, I did everything as before. However, since my encounter with the Lord my life has changed: I would not stay at night anymore in the theater, I stopped going out, entertained in various ways, interrupted with some habits that did not bring any good, I devoted myself to some things that I might it should have been done earlier ... Actually, the setting of my life has changed completely. If I acted, I acted for Jesus. All I did, I did for God. Even so, the job that was no longer interested in me, as part of my work for God, had its immense value, just like everything else, because it is not so important what it is doing, but to do so in the love of God. In my soul I somehow knew that the Lord would give me the assurance that He truly calls me, that my desire is not just mine but that it is His. I highly recommended the Lady (in Zagreb I was with him daily in prayer at the Stone Gate) and St. Josipu (I went to my favorite saint). They helped me to seek God's answer. Finally, through the special intercession of Our Lady of Medjugorje, God made me understand that he really invited me to the convent, in Carmel, as I was in the first moment and felt in the soul. How does God talk to the soul so that she can understand it clearly? (laughter) So God has his own ways. God is proclaiming to each soul the way that soul can best understand it. God does not speak only in one way. God is endless. His words of soul are endless, inexhaustible. At all times, God speaks the way He wants and how the soul can best understand it. - Are you talking about other people too? It speaks through other people, through events, circumstances, over when we stumble, we want something and it is not realized ... or is realized (laughter). Talking across, seemingly, coincidence. It speaks through certain signs, something that soul can mean. He talks through his prayer through prayer, reading the Holy Scripture, spiritual revelation, holy confession, spiritual conversation, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament ... can speak even with his silence ..., silence ... In all this Enemy is active. He tries to imitate the signs of God's Word of mind. That is why this important discernment, a lot of prayers and spiritual guidance - so that the voice of God may be revealed from the one who wants to turn from the path, the signs of God from those who are almost like them. - What is the main difference between one and the other? The main difference is that when God says the soul, when you want to give some sign of your presence, your will, then in the soul the peace, the joy, the sky, the soul is love to all and to everything, the soul is immense in the soul, in the soul zest. Every tiredness disappears from the soul. The soul is all possible. And when it comes to the Enemy, then there is anxiety, fear, dissatisfaction, nervousness, sorrow, difficulty, hardness, deafness, malice, sadness, sadness and sorrow, which does not have to be revealed at the very beginning. - What is the meaning of a clause for a person who feels the need to return God's gift to life? So much, it means everything. The clause is God's wish. The clauses are the "King's Chambers" in which He brings souls specially selected to be completely His only and for Him. God's call to life in the clause is a call to the total omission of everything ... and even ourselves - from the love of God. The call to life in the clause is radical. He must necessarily live endlessly and without polarity. In this frantic world, which wants to have more and more insight, possess ... the joy of life in the clause is one of the most powerful evidence that "only God is sufficient". In conversion, living with God, calling ... prevails only the desire to do God's will to the end. Strangely enough, someone would think, "Well, God is somewhere big, far, unobtrusive, somewhere in the sky. What does he have to think about where and how? Is this or that space? "In the end, it is no different, but if God wants something, then it is not the same. God cares for us, the little creatures, his creatures, his beloved children, so that our hair does not fall from us, and that He does not know and does not want it. How would you not think of the space that wants us? After all, we are created as physical, spiritual and spiritual beings. He thinks of each of our dimensions and if we are in space he knows why this space, he knows why that time. He knows why separation from the world, and it is enough for He knows. It is enough for me to do it. I like what John the Baptist has said: "It is for me to be diminished, and He to grow." The fulfillment of the will of God is always and only to the glory of God. That's how it should be. If He thinks my life will be used for her glory in that area or in the other, so be it. However, it puts us in the heart and desire for that space, precisely for that life. It puts us clarity about the place he wants us, about the kind of life she wants from us. He worries about every small detail and if we know him, and if we are in constant contact with Him - and when I say "constant contact" I do not mean only fifteen minutes of prayer, holy mass, than twenty-four hours of conversation with God, friendship with God, life with God and God, He is closer to us than closest to him, closer to his closest friend, family, father, mother - why is it so difficult for us to ask what He thinks of everything He wants? - When God's desire is recognized and accepted, in the freedom of surrender and repentance to his infinite love, what does the soul feel then? Peace, lightness, breadth, joy, happiness that never ends. Everything I've just said and much more. Almost all right, even at the surface of the fury of storms, which can also happen. - How to deal with these storms? How do you go ahead when you pressed? Trust to believe, let him lead you, be sure that He is always with you, even if you do not feel it, knowing that He ultimately left it for your good. Be prepared to be patient, be ready to fight, be ready to take the cross, be prepared to do just the opposite of what the world is telling you, and that is that you must always be comfortable, that you must always be good, that you must always be healthy, that you have to be attractive and young, that you have to have everything, that you have to be the best, the most, the least, the most, and the most important ... And if you are a little winter, if you are a little hard then you should do it all to pass it. Simply, he repeatedly repeats: "Get off the cross!" You should be prepared to completely oppose the suffering; hug the cross. After all, Jesus is with us, He is with us. Our suffering and his suffering, united, have great power, purity, redemption power; because it is not suffering because of suffering but suffering from love. According to Him, to the souls. The measure of love is as much as we are willing to sacrifice for the beloved. After all, He gives us strength for everything and sooner or later again gives us light. And then there is a moment to make a decision ... in the time of peace, of course, because it is only then clearly seen. - What do people mean by that road, friends, community members? I think people are God's great fortune on our way. Every creature, every person, all that God gives us is a great gift. According to every person God puts close to us, we should feel immense gratitude for the gift of life to that person, for the gift of opportunity to love, to love God through that person, that God loves that person through us, to love that person in God and to ask him so, to approach him so close. And each and every person God puts on our way is for our good and for us to come closer to him, especially the people of our community ... Makar has people who want to prevent us in our path for a variety of reasons. But to those who love God, God turns to good, and also to meet with those people. Here I am speaking in general about the people God puts on our path. Certainly, as far as nurses in my community are concerned, I love each and every one of them for me a gift from God, unique and unrepeatable, and I also want to be for them and for God in them. And we are indeed helping on this path to the eternal homeland, on the way to Him. - A normal, healthy young man has great desires, ideals. He wants to change the world, fix what is corrupt, what has burdened him and burdens him in his upbringing. How does the desire to change the world join the spiritual calling? I believe that changing the world can best be influenced if you respond to God's call. When it comes to the religious calling of a monk, a nun of all gives himself to the Lord. So all its potentials, what it is, what it could be, what it was, what it will be, everything, everything, everything is for God. God is endowed to the end and God has it. I do not think anyone is worried anymore for the world to be God, but to God. God can do everything alone. He does not need us, but God wants us, God wants to serve us. That is why he calls us to be his little instruments that he continues to operate in the world and change the world; invites us to participate with Him in the construction of the Kingdom of God on earth. God knows how to use us. We do not need to ask too many answers. God gives us, at any time, signs that He leads us all. What we need to do most in the past is to cooperate with God's grace to do our best to change the very best of ourselves. Let's fight first against the evil in us; Let us first seek out our sanctification and the world will be better for one person; and then our example of joyful living with God and for God will have a special strength of testimony and will be an incentive to others that they too will choose to follow God's path. - What then would she say to our young readers who are echoing in the heart of God's voice that He needs them on the path of complete devotion? Maybe it's not clear to them, but this question is always coming back, I can not escape it. They are afraid of them and live with that call. What would you say to them? First of all I would say - as the Scriptures say: "Fear is a lack of love" - to open love, to believe in the end of God. Fear is not from God, fear of the enemy. The indecision is from the enemy. Annihilation is from an enemy. Fear is not true. The one who trusts God ultimately does not fear anything. It is necessary to blindly believe in God and God will overcome fear for everyone, to everyone in their own way. - John Paul II he strongly said, "Do not be afraid." The present Holy Father repeated this by adding, "Christ does not take away anything from you ..." ... but gives everything. It's true. It's always a matter of fear for one's own person. - A man is afraid he will not be accomplished, he will lose something precious, he will be bad ... Yes, yes ... It may be afraid of mistakes and it seems like we make a mistake: "There is no back, we are wrong now and now it's over." How are you going to be, how are you going to be? Without fear! The beauty of our faith is that when we make a mistake, there is always more, there is always hope, we can always start from scratch. It's never ending, it's never too late. God always waits for us. Why not take the risk of God, why not try? If I can not do it, that's why. At least for a piece of humor I will be more humble, and that is already a lot. Success is not a measure of our value, success in the eyes of men, in the eyes of the world, in the eyes of ourselves, given what we think of ourselves and how much we love ourselves. Our success and our achievement is only so, if we faithfully do God's will. Only then will we be happy, whatever it is. There needs to be a risk, to dive, to go. This is valid for a spiritual call, but it is valid for a double call. Surely! Because especially young people today, before they get married and thinking of getting married, they are scared most of all for life. They are not sure of themselves - are they able to do it: whole life with the same person when problems come up and when this is when it is ... It is always the problem of all these fears that we rely too much on ourselves, too much to count on ourselves and knowing how good today we are today, we are bad tomorrow, the day after tomorrow who knows where I am ... we are dead creatures and then we are developing into fears. However, one must trust God, believe that He leads all. Decide to go with Him, give His life to His hands, put God in the first place, and then only give up to the other. And God will bless it, then God will guide it. His power and His love is the one that feeds the love of two young people. Of course, by the sacrament of marriage, because the sacrament has immense power. The sacrament is the one who gives us the strength to be able to stay with each other, but the sacrament is made consciously, from love to God and to the person I love. In this sacrament, spouses become one in God, and while living they can not be separated any more. - What if a young man doubles between marriage and spiritual calling, attracting him a little, little else? I can speak from my experience. The God puts us in the heart. While I was thinking about what God wanted, he helped me with a story about St. Francis. Ignatius. It seems to me that he said, "If we want to know what God wants of us, let us be in a position to observe our eternal life, to observe our life lived in a family, married or devoted to God in the monastery. What seems most appealing to us, how we would like to have lived our whole life, is what God wants. "And just the sign of devotion to a consecrated life or marriage is that desire that is in the heart that is strongly drawn towards a certain direction what God has prepared for us. I think this is the greatest indication of the vocation ... and the persistence we want this to be realized because the call is first felt as the desire, the need for the heart, the soul. - Thank you again, sister Edith Mary of the Cross, or Mother Edith - here in Spain you are so concerned. May the good God continue to take care of his way. We pray to you all the readers and staff of this list at the beginning of their presentation, in order to be to the glory of God and to the benefit of souls. This your testimony and prayer support we hope are a great contribution to this endeavor.

Oh, man. That's a hard lession. Probably learning it more and mure. It seems to me that after a couple enlightenment experiences (real enlightenment) we tend to get more and more into nothingness's dark side. It takes a while to accpet that progress isn't all pretty But all the same the joy comes from it. haha

Hm, maybe Leo is just not yet at the "final stages" of enlightenment? Isn't it supposed to go somewhat like that: I am person I am I Nothingness So maybe he is at the I stage where he percieves everything as him, so the divinity/god stage of "I"? The next step would then be to truly get rid of the I all together until no actions are taken like some buddhist monks and yogis? I don't know, but I remember someone having said something of that sort. And Leo would probably know about this so... what am I thinking.

I have this question that keeps boggling my mind. It seems like with the model of the brain and subjective reality you can explain all of the enlightenment experiences that people have. The fact that losing the ego leads to the mind identifying with all the content it is producing is quite obvious from a "simulation" point of view. And of course it would be the most joyful experience the mind could possibly produce, because it is a limitless expansion, which is all that the human mind is striving for. I don't understand though how one can trust the mind with the judgement that the truth is that "I am god, god is all there is", because this is clearly the judgement it makes. It immediately takes the new experience, or the newly generated subjective reality, and claims that NOW it knows the truth. Now it knows that ego was illusion, that all form is illusion. Though, it still claims that it is nothingness, it still creates a concept, a map. Without the map in fact it wouldn't even have a reason to be joyful, because it didn't realize anything, all that changes is the experience. As enlightened people claim themselves, they have always been nothingness, but yet they enjoy "knowing" it. And I have this feeling that the knowing is actually another delusion, because it is just more identification. Shouldn't the true realization just be not knowing, to such a degree that one would actually cease to exist completely? So much so that no concepts will follow? Or is Leo actually dead inside right now, and all the words he is speaking are delusional anyways? Because all concepts must be. I don't know, but it seems like Leo even though he pretends to be skeptical, he actually just believes it. "Direct experience = reality", but that's just another concept, how does he know that it's true? I don't know if I'm commiting Zen-devilry, but it just makes me more skeptical of Leo's judgement. It's even worse because what I say has to be illusion too, so it cannot be true, that would mean that nothing can be true is actually not true, and that would be paradoxical. I guess what I am saying is that what if the ego gets attached to the experience of "god"? From having had boundaries it just extends itself throughout the entirety of consciousness, so that all experiences are identified as "me". "Oh I'm infinity, I am god! I am all enlightened people!", why is Leo so certain that this conceptual claim is true instead of "Oh, I am my mind, and my mind is all of my reality, all experience is me". It's so weird because from Leo's perspective his claim is actually absolutely true, like from my perspective all of my reality is a product of my mind, so of course it is all me. The delusion comes in the assumption that the mind is reality, and not just illusion. So the "Oh my GOD, I AM INFINITY" is actually the delusional ego claiming it's own illusion as itself. Sure, you are "infinity", but infinity is just another illusion. So you are not actually infinity, you are nothing at all, and to actually realize that would be to have no experience at all, meaning true death, no joy, no nothing. But then again non-dual teaching does say that there is no difference between nothing and illusion. I'm so confused, and I do not want to be deluded with fairy tales, even if it is direct experience for me. Right now it is direct experience to me that I exist, so why wouldn't my mind be capable of creating the delusion that I am the absolute, as an actual reality?

Deconstruction led me to end, I don't know what can possibly be known by any human or any entity. I think nothing can be known for sure, even absolute truth will tell you in the end that: everything exist and doesn't exist in the same time. Any knowledge is a metaphor of infinity which is indefinite, any philosophy, science, art are all metaphors, any information whether visual, sound, smell, intuition etc is a metaphor of infinity, nothing can be known directly. Even absolute truth of one unbound nothingness and infinite happiness leaves enlightened people for an openness towards deeper truths!!! So what if truth is just another metaphor? Therefore, what is it all about if not about feeling good? Any thinking arises to find strategies to feel good, any feeling is what make us to function at all. But on the other hand, how can we know if feeling itself is the most important thing? How can we know that its about choosing good over bad? Good feels good and bad feels bad, so what? Many people will feel bad for their entire lives, that doesn't exclude them from reality. Then are feeling of 'good' and love inherent to reality or is it just part of living organisms? How can we know if its about playing in infinite playground? Coz even if we become truth how can we know that all is good, well, perfect? What is it if not powerful feeling? -> how can we know that any feeling of good exist outside the perceptions of living organism? -> how can we know if nothingness governed by love or some good power? is nothingness a 'good' power? is it love? can we assign any good qualities to god? i guess i just wanna say that how can we know that god is good? If whatever you think or feel about it is just another metaphor of god among infinite number of other metaphors. How can we know that suffering is a metaphor of lack of god, while happiness or absolute truth is metaphor of god itself? What is it if not hierarchy of metaphors? How can we know that reality is hierarchical from absolute god to not much god to no-god if everything is equally god? Therefore, suffering is just as god as absolute truth or absolute love, why not? And what exactly put feelings on pedestal of metaphors? ps. might sound non-sensical to you, but i think it will trouble you too at some point of your deconstruction...

@pluto amen. @Mighty Mouse Shhh here he comes - omg dude that was so funny ? @Joseph Maynor There are stages and it could also happen all at once. The stages, anyone could do and get ‘there’. Anyone. The all at once, 1 in a billion odds I think. My 2 cents....There’s realization of the duality of one’s own mind, conceptual nonduality, mental equanimity, the oneness experience, the absolute experience, then the ultimate blow out that actual reality is literally you and there is no other thing (the Alone ❤️), they’re is no thing at all, you are not a thing and not not a thing either, everything sensed is completely your illusion, what you are in actuality is eternal. That last one, doesn’t matter if it’s on a trip or not, it is so permanent it could not be undone even if you tried. *It’s not that you experience that you are everything - you are still you - and you experience that everything is you. Sounds subtle, but it’s all the difference. There is no unseeing what you are and what is illusion. When someone says it’s not an illusion - lol - God, you, it telling you, that they are real and not illusionary. Consider how funny that is, when you know you are them the whole time. They just don’t know what they are. Nothing wrong with that (obviously lmao!), it’s just very funny in a mind f way. Wether this eternal you is love itself, or a void of nothingness without conscious awareness of it’s self...clearly we can agree no one believes anyone, nor should they, so it’s limited of course to experience of what you are. It is worth considering though, that if you consider yourself conscious as a result of the body & brain, but you don’t think God is conscious, you are actually saying you are conscious and God is not. Also, very funny. Side note, lots of people claiming it’s a void, who have not experienced the mental equanimity, let alone the rest. It is not helpful to anyone on the forum when someone speaks with false confidence from fear and ignorance. Every time someone does this, they are hurting themselves the most, that is the nature of self depreciation, you’re further from any realizations, as the path is through the self. One’s own healing should then be the priority, not a forum comment. Stating enlightenment is not real reveals you have not experienced it, or any of the most profound experiences, and solidifys that you won’t. Short of a human never having formed an ego or any concept of self as human, Enlightenment is a real experience.

@Dodo You are 100% right! The self is an illusion, all polarities and separations are illusions. Truth and false, right or wrong, self or others. Is all an infinite thing/nothingness/everything. Time is also an illusion, time is everything and everything is time. Without this illusion of time, I am you and you are me. Like in the poem, I find it funny/sad how hard/easy that people are trying to fool themselves. You are the illusion itself, and the illusion is god/everything.

I had a surgery with total anesthesia (for 4 hours). I can only remember the first moment I started waking up - I heard voice of the doctor and became very surprised, then thoughts happened: "What is this [about sound]? Why is this needed? Everything was so perfect". I cannot remember how it feels to be during anesthesia, but I remember this brief moment less than a second before I even heard the doctor's voice. It felt like very very satisfying blackness (even though I realized there was blackness only after I started waking up). Basically, like deep sleep. Very satisfying and very complete. Not boring. It feels like a pause. Also, the voice of doctor appeared "above" this satisfying pause. And then thoughts, feelings, vision, memories of my life appeared "above" it. Itself did not go anywhere. There is it, and above it all kind of experiences. Everything appears in this satisfying "being/sleeping", I guess (if I'm not fantasizing). I find this experience useful for self inquiry. Sometimes I try to remember that moment before the voice of doctor appeared above nothingness and try to find this nothingness in present moment. Everything is appearing "above" it, how can itself disappear? I guess, this is what was there before you were born? This "containing". I'm afraid I could be fantasizing, though, so in self inquiry I do not always rely on that memory.

Huh? That doesn't make sense to me. For me, in deep sleep, there is nothingness present. Zero.

The mind deceives into believing it’s idea of nothingness is the same as experiencing nothingness. Usually from a great meditation practice, a really convincing friend, one’s upbringing, or what someone said in a book. The difference is, the experience is, of God. Afterwards, when you see the word nothing, it’s the same as seeing the word God. The idea, is just an idea, protected by an ego that is so clever, it’s invisible.

A few years ago, I got my wisdom teeth removed. The surgeon gave me an anesthetic. While I was unconscious, there was no body, no mind, no world, no time, no space, just absolute nothingness. I wasn't aware of anything but I didn't die. All of our experience right now is a fantasy. The same thing can be experienced if one succeeds in meditation. From that experience, I concluded that the body, mind, and consciousness work together in an INFINITELY complex manner. It's so complex that we can't understand it through our mind. I'm not going to try to figure it out because that would lead to mental masturbation. People who say we are the body are partially correct. People who say we're not the body are also partially correct. For people who tried 5-meo did you experience something similar to this? Everyone is welcome to comment.

@Monkey-man Enlightened ppl don't ask why because there is nothing to ask about. Everything is the absolute and the absolute doesn't exist. I know that's a total paradox. But that's the truth of it. There is no one to wonder why. There is no duality. There is no non-duality. There is no enlightenment. There is no God. There is no creation. There is no one being born. There is no world. There are no appearances. There is no nothingness. There is no void. Everything is the absolute and the absolute doesn't exist. Drop the logic that asks why and it all makes perfect sense. Nothing is.

Do enlightened ppl still think about why god created the world? (or about why there is world of appearances of nothingness)

@JustinS Re-AliSE That Seeking Is For IlluSion. And For-Getting It Is Interchanging The Vibrations With Truer Ones. True-er Vibrations Never Dis-ease This Being. False carries much Loaded Exaggerations In the Undercurrent Of THOUGHTS. So. HAVE SUPREME SUPERVISION. What does this MEAN you ask? Well, See without seeing, hear without hearing, be without being. Don't feel but feel, Don't think and don't know but Know your thoughts and Let them think. Find The one which brought It to Existence. Find The Whole beyond the Mote. Find Nothingness beyond Your Concept of Yourself. Attain YOU within YOU. And Know It without Knowing without awareness. See Fully = Seeing Seeing And you See What is Seeing? And You Are What??? Attain Yourself And go To Boundaries Beyond Boundaries. Then You Be-Come un-Becoming. WCRTY. TODIFJELSKD.

I think I get it. and it is probably the last layer to take off before absolute nothingness. but that's at a very advanced state. before you get there, you have to replace career, relationship, money, partying and that stuff with spirituality, seeking, meditating, self inquiry, journaling and such things. I don't think I'm at that point yet. and I think that's why Leo keeps saying that this stuff is such hard work. because many people jump off and 'stop seeking' too soon, when they're still stuck in a 'low consciousness' life

This little phrase jumps out at me because it implies something in light of everything else you said. Yes I want to be caring... I am care full, I do care, though I don't get the impression this is the sentiment you were saying it in. It felt like more of a warning, like I should beware of something and yes, I want to be aware, again if that's what you meant ..... although, again it doesn't appear you did mean that sentiment. There is no doom or devastation if our awareness of the absolute is merely conceptual or limited or veiled in perception, it just is. For my own experience living a fulfilled life, at peace and in joy is the point even if it is an illusion, I just want to enjoy my delusion! I don't need "truth" or "infinite absolute nothingness" or "enlightenment" or whatever attainment of some ultimate abstract to be fulfilled. Just being present, appreciating the moment, embracing life in it's simplest expression has way more effect of dissolving the suffering in my inner life and increasing the enjoyment of my whole experience. Whether it's limited and conceptual only matters is if those concepts and limitations are bringing me misery, if not, so what? I don't set up the conceptual belief that those conditions of limitation prevent my joy. Kitty aint go no time fo dat! Meow!

The very fact that you are alive and have a desire to survive, Leo made a topic about this. A banana has a different meaning to us than to a dolphin. The same as if a city was to be hit by a meteorite, depending on which city you live in your would derive a different meaning from the impact, even though the meteorites have not changed, they have just are hitting a different place and not wiping you out. You cannot escape meaning as a person. So if you look through he perspective of a person, or subjectively hierarchy of values exist, wether you like it or not. That is how we communicating right now. These very same things through the objective lens hierarchical values don't exist. They are both one in the same, or is it one and the same? I'm not sure, but they are the same thing. I don't see what you mean when you say humans assign meanings to things though, if we exist and existence is emptiness and you say value comes from existence then??It's kinda still leading to the same thing that we derive meaning from that which has no meaning, which is...a meaning! And if you look at it from the objective viewpoint, where all values are equal (closest thing i can describe to nothingness and it's not wrong is it? I mean the values don't exist but the data in which we interpret things do), no hierachies of value ie no meaning, you derive a meaning of meaninglessness from that which has no meaning. It still very much seems like a paradox to me. But fair, i do see what you mean about fairness and objectivity and a leap that i may be taking (i'm still not sure). It's all a lot to take in and i'm just trying to make sense of it. Appreciate you testing it out.

Hi pardon me for my rudeness , i haven't read all the replies ... Just wanted to address the first message by playdoh : Being Enlightened is like being 4 years old and realizing that everything is a playground I can tell you from my personal experience that i too struggled to understand how is it beneficial for me to be empty... Because the glimpses of the true thing i was having were deceiving me: I was walking for hours listening to trance music and having an experience of "no self"... i felt like i am reality itself in this moments. But now , from my direct experience i can tell you this much: Enlightenment is anything but empty. It is complete fullness of experience and it feels like whatever you are doing right now, is the meaning of life... I enjoy having sex as much as i enjoy pouring myself a cup of fresh coffee My process was gradual and that is why i cant relate to this feeling of dread you had but my guess is that if it happens "to fast" it might be a bit shocking . I think you don't have to push it if you don't feel like it... i was on for a month, then off for two and this cycle repeated itself. Nobody "needs" to become enlightened - the way i see it anyways - when you have had enough you have had enough... I strongly believe that every being that wants to . can and will become enlightened and the master can only shorten your struggle. I want to add a paragraph from a great zen book i am reading: Eastern wisdom - the treasure box , by Nissim Amon: "Pay attention and don't think about emptiness when contemplating the mind. Those of you who sit in meditation and fall into absolute emptiness will sink into black nothingness and space. just us outer space is full of real things the sun, the moon, the stars , planet earth, rivers and mountains , so to the mind contains real things. The mind and the world ; all is one and one is all " I agree that the ego is crucial for our survival at first... Because if kids were fully enlightened what is to stop them from putting their hand in the fire and realizing that this feeling is empty? you see the point? It dose protect us - at first but than it becomes a heavy burden. The way i see it: It is necessary to go full circle . Alan watts ones spoke to a buddhist and he tolled him: "When i knew nothing about buddhism , mountains were mountains and waters were waters. When i understood a little buddhism , mountains were no longer mountains and waters were no longer waters. But when i fully understood , mountains were again mountains and waters were waters." It depicts - as i see it - the process that takes place when someone is on the path but not quite there: It can be world shattering and very difficult to take in... but i assure you when (and not if ) you will get there mountains will be themselves and you will not feel "insecure" or vulnerable because thous are fleeting feelings that do not last. The closes i can describe an awake state to someone who is not fully there : The gap between your thoughts. And from what i recall thous were the most peaceful moments i had Good luck, good day and keep it real Daniel. p.s Sorry for my lengthy writing i was so exited to find this community So i wanted to answer my best. Leo we need more people like you !

@soul haha I giggled cute word play! I like the way you have shifted what "I" means. I warn tho, since it is in fact on-topic - i notice people seem to think that all is self means their current state of ego is everything there is. it isn't. transcention is, in a cute way, to extend the ego so that it is more encompassing the kitty doesn't cease to be real because it isn't the ego you are limited by. she sure exists too, and as long as you are trapped in duality, she remains true and not-you. have you ever been the kitty? how about every kitty? only then can you trully say you have been infinite. as long as you only accept that you are part of the infinite, and do not include [the kitty] and [you] and [you being the kitty] and [you remembering being the kitty but no longer being her] and [you not remembering having been the kitty despite having been so or perhaps having yet to been so or really time is just an illusion so both are true and false] and [you before you knew you were the kitty]....... and who knows maybe the kitty can do all these things too so if she can you gotta do those as well! But sure as hell you gotta go be the kitty without ever having been not-her nor having ever again been not-her, just been the kitty and not anything else beyond that. so unless you have done all that, you can never actually truthfully say you have been the kitty. and as such you can never truthfully say you have been the absolute. And so in this way, you are always locked in ego, you will never leave it. you are always locked in duality, and will never leave it. even if you do somehow manage to be the kitty in all those ways and then some, don't stop there, because you gotta then go do that for all the kitties as well, all ants and all humans and all of all individuals, and all atoms and waves and gluons and particles and quantum states, and all concepts too. and especially the ones you never came up with yet, as well as been all of the nothingness to counterbalance all of these, and every false belief as well. And did I mention all of existence (and non-existence and outside-the-box-of-existence-and-non-existence) we can never fathom: AKA all of that what we can fathom can fathom also can never fathom? Without being all of that, and in all the various dimensions of being that that I mentioned about the cat plus some.... without all that you will only have glimpses of something awe-inspiring, some thing that you claim to be the infinite, the absolute, god - but that is just a belief upon its ending, even if it is true in the moment of it. its ending is its death for you and you return to your brittle ego. and unless you're having that "glimpse" right now you can't say you're in it truthfully - just because you are the absolute and the absolute is you don't mean the same thing as you accomplishing that level of consciousness - only that level of belief! And even if you manage to be "in" that existence of the absolute -"in" as in a conclusive "within" and not the limited within that is duality aka ego. Even being that conclusive absolute, but taking the action to state you collapse to be limited ego and not unlimited absolute. By having this conversation we prove to be finite dual ego, and by taking the action to not partake in the conversation we in fact do the same regardless! this is the nature of duality and nonduality to be perfectly frank. so be careful. You can never "be" the absolute in its wholesomeness of it - you can only be in its image.

@playdoh Is it helpful to you to consider that your brain is made of atoms, which are empty nothingness appearing as something?

@playdoh brains don’t exist... A “brain” is a concept. “Thoughts” is a concept. “Concept” is a concept. He’s trying to show you the importance of direct experience. See you’ve fallen into the trap of believing in a concept, rather than seeing through your direct experience. We all have don’t worry, you’re not alone. You can’t really put into words what he’s trying to tell you because every word is just another concept. If you look for yourself, right now, in this moment, try to see where your thoughts come from and watch them appear out of thin air and disappear back into nothingness.

@Outer As long as it is is not exclusive, dichotomous identification as something, and it's just an individual expression for the sake of this relational experience, it doesn't seem problematic. The so-called Self is another name for the nameless nothingness (notwithstanding that too is another name), and as such it is neither self nor no-self. Just an individual expression of All that is.

Solipsism is pointing towards truth, but is in itself false. I understand that when you have a non-dual experience than yes, you could say solipsism is true, but then there is nobody to say that in the first place. And when you want to argue about solipsism from your everyday ego awareness, there is no point to it. There is only that which you experience. And if your experience tells you that other people exist, than there are, and if you stop believing it than they stop to exist. It is all different degrees of self-deception. How else could you experience anything other than nothingness? I found Rupert Spiras video to be pretty good. You have basically just identified with one line on a picture, looking at other lines and not seeing the whole picture. You create the world you want to believe in. The magic trick is that you forgot you did it and how you did it.