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Second hand knowledge my friend. Emptiness is not about accumulation. When you speak of awareness you are referring to things you have read that have been passed down through the stream of thought. The “You” is then bound by experience. This is has nothing to do with nothingness/emptiness. It’s to die to the old, to the self/thought/experience, actually. Not to accumulate a bunch of conceptualizations that thought/self/experience has put together and grasps/clings to. Emtpy, don’t add and perpetuate the conditioned consciousness. Unless you want to of course?

@Etagnwo Most of your points are valid, besides some putting words in my mouth, and the moot points about Bentinho's personality. Additionally, trinfinityacademy.com is entirely free. I will take back "highest levels of enlightenment"... clearly you and @Anna1 have reached this ending and can be 100% certain there is no more to understand or realize.... was there a finish line? Also, awareness does have qualities -- it is aware, ever present, etc. It seems to my intuition that there would be "something" truly indescribable, beyond all concepts, unable to be spoken about. Perhaps a "Nothingness" or "Infinity", which transcends Awareness itself and sources it. Idk, could be wrong but it makes more sense to me that Ultimate Reality is "Pure Nothingness". Or maybe Ultimate Reality is awareness itself... lucky us! What do you make of deep sleep, or anesthesia. Are you still you during these times? Is there awareness? (Legitimately asking what you think). I do hope we can both agree that one (sorry not one, but awareness) can reach a ... "state" ... of Pure Consciousness, in which it just is, and is not aware of anything in particular. And all thoughts, sensory perceptions, sense of time, etc are gone and awareness is resting at its source.... It's often called The Void. What are your opinions of this?

*note* I'm really asking Leo here and hope he has the time to answer. I'm not looking for every Joe blo's opinion from their beliefs. I'm not interested in opinions. If you really think you can answer these questions, from actual experience, and not coming from a place of feeding your Ego's importance, then yes please, I'd love to hear your wisdom. In the video, you talk abut it taking the will to give up literally everything, including the will to live, to become Enlightened / Awake. You have to 100% commit and surrender to dying. Not 99%, but 100% giving up your life totally and completely. The will to pull the trigger, but 1000 times worse, as your killing yourself over years or decades. Watching everything in your life, everything you love, all slowly die off piece by piece. Sounds like the worst misery. But, you're saying this is the only way to actually wake up. The Only way out of the suffering. The only way to ever actually feel true love for anything. But here's the problem I have. I've already died. I've stopped breathing, turned grey, lips blue, and felt the numbness and darkness envelope me. Felt my life fade away into nothingness. I got to the very very edge of forever death. And in that moment, on that edge, I said 'No, no I will not go now! I will fight with my very last bit of will to not go over that edge. I had more will than I ever have in my life to stay alive. And I did. I met death and lived. But in this video, you say the only way I can become Enlightened, to become Awake, to ever stop all the suffering, to actually experience real Love, is to go to that exact same space on the edge and say "I surrender to death". I...I, do not think I can do that. Knowing what it felt like to die, I don't think I can willfully do that to myself. Now here's my real fear, knowing that I can't willfully kill myself, I might spend the rest of my life knowing that this is the only thing there is to do with my life. Nothing, absolutely nothing, not sex, not women, not pleasure, not purpose, not companionship, not even love, or even the basic joy of being alive, absolutely nothing is going to satisfy me or bring me any kind of real happiness. Only being Awake / Enlightened / Truth / being God, will I ever experience peace. Knowing that this is possible, and never trying, will drive me mad. Always knowing its there and possible, but I'm too chicken to try, the rest of my life will be fucked. If I try and fail for decades, wasting my life, my life is fucked. If I can't summon the will to actually kill myself (which I know I can't do), then the rest of my life is fucked. I won't be able to forget this, or let it go of this, if I know that there is a chance that all the suffering can actually go away. I just don't know what to do, if I can't do what you're saying I have to do in this video. Sorry for all the reading to do, I tried to make this as succinct as possible. And thank you for any answers or insights.

*note* I'm really asking Leo here and hope he has the time to answer. I'm not looking for every Joe blo's opinion from their beliefs. I'm not interested in opinions. If you really think you can answer these questions, from actual experience, and not coming from a place of feeding your Ego's importance, then yes please, I'd love to hear your wisdom. In the video, you talk abut it taking the will to give up literally everything, including the will to live, to become Enlightened / Awake. You have to 100% commit and surrender to dying. Not 99%, but 100% giving up your life totally and completely. The will to pull the trigger, but 1000 times worse, as your killing yourself over years or decades. Watching everything in your life, everything you love, all slowly die off piece by piece. Sounds like the worst misery. But, you're saying this is the only way to actually wake up. The Only way out of the suffering. The only way to ever actually feel true love for anything. But here's the problem I have. I've already died. I've stopped breathing, turned grey, lips blue, and felt the numbness and darkness envelope me. Felt my life fade away into nothingness. I got to the very very edge of forever death. And in that moment, on that edge, I said 'No, no I will not go now! I will fight with my very last bit of will to not go over that edge. I had more will than I ever have in my life to stay alive. And I did. I met death and lived. But in this video, you say the only way I can become Enlightened, to become Awake, to ever stop all the suffering, to actually experience real Love, is to go to that exact same space on the edge and say "I surrender to death". I...I, do not think I can do that. Knowing what it felt like to die, I don't think I can willfully do that to myself. Now here's my real fear, knowing that I can't willfully kill myself, I might spend the rest of my life knowing that this is the only thing there is to do with my life. Nothing, absolutely nothing, not sex, not women, not pleasure, not purpose, not companionship, not even love, or even the basic joy of being alive, absolutely nothing is going to satisfy me or bring me any kind of real happiness. Only being Awake / Enlightened / Truth / being God, will I ever experience peace. Knowing that this is possible, and never trying, will drive me mad. Always knowing its there and possible, but I'm too chicken to try, the rest of my life will be fucked. If I try and fail for decades, wasting my life, my life is fucked. If I can't summon the will to actually kill myself (which I know I can't do), then the rest of my life is fucked. I won't be able to forget this, or let it go of this, if I know that there is a chance that all the suffering can actually go away. I just don't know what to do, if I can't do what you're saying I have to do in this video. Sorry for all the reading to do, I tried to make this as succinct as possible. And thank you for any answers or insights.

My understanding is because non-existance by its very nature and definition means that "it doesnt exist" it applies to itself as "non-existence", leaving only the possible thing "existance" to remain. But the emptiness is full of non-existent and existent information, that's what I meant. Everything that is not within your awareness is non-existent to you. If i showed a beautiful picture to a blind man, does it exist for him or not? Non-existence could also be used as a word for emptiness, no self, nothingness. it's just another label or word like the rest of them. The true self reveals itself when all sensory and mind activity has stopped yet there is an intense focus in the present moment or existence. Anyway my biggest breakthrough was focusing on existence and non-existence at the same time, as in trying to verify what existence is, if its real, and i was intensely focusing on that point and suddenly I felt my whole body dissolve away and my mind activity stopped and I was overcome with powerful energy. Words can't express it, it was the first time i felt something like that and it was a big deal for me because i don't do any drugs or substances so I am always as sober as heck and reality always feels as real as real can get (very grounded) so its extremely hard to enter these blissful states and noself states for me. But it feels good to get glimpses of what is potentially there. By the way I watched your lastest blog video and pretty much agreeing with everything you say, its almost the same as my own experience, I forgot to mention before my body dissolved away I was getting intense energy of death approaching almost like a panic attack and I actually remember I was surrendering to die and letting go of all the precious things to me, it wasn't like I was mentally letting go but more like i was dying, entering oblivion and leaving all these things behind, fortunately I don't have much to give up, makes it easier to surrender lol.

There is no such thing as non-existence, only existence. Non-existence is a concept existing in your mind. Consciousness, existence, and Nothingness are all the same thing, but this "Nothingness" is not non-existence, it is existence. Existence is, and it is empty. Then it can get filled with all kinds of forms, one of which is the concept of non-existence. Existence has no opposite. It only feels like it does because the ego-mind creates a conceptual "should", telling itself, "But why doesn't X exist?" But that is existence! "Non-existence" exists within existence.

Until this becomes actual Then emptiness/nothingness is not. Until consciousness is empty of its conditioned movement/the center, then any talk of nothingness/emptiness is coming from the field of things/thought.

It didn't go so well with me when I said pretty much the same thing on here lol. Leo, its sort of a tricky question to put into words and kind of pointless, but would like to hear your opinion on it to expand on perspectives. Would you say existence and non-existence is the same thing? That this is the nothingness and we are in it. That consciousness and nothingness is the same, to put it into words consciousness arises from nothingness. The mind structured and organize the unreal to seem real. Tried to make sense, and in return created a powerful illusion. I was lucky enough to have two very powerful experiences of noself this month, I was really trying to focus and feel into what existence and non-existence is, and the body ceased to exist, it just melted away everything melted away but it didn't feel like sleep, it felt like a very powerful energy that i labelled as "pure consciousness", I saw this as to be truth, the face that I was before before my biological body was born. At the time it didn't feel like an experience but seeing as I am talking about the past now i must refer to it as an experience, actually it was more like a cease of everything, a cease of experience, yet so much aliveness and energy. My goal now is to integrate this to more day to day activity, because its so easy to fall back into identifying with the ego. It's so hard to be on point all the time.

When you opened your eyes on the world for the first time as a child; how brilliant the colors were; what a jewel the sun was; what marvel the stars; how incredibly alive the trees were... And to love again and again, and have people to whom we are deeply attached go to sleep and never wake up... and the laughter echoes only in one's mind... but then the echo goes... the memory, the traces are all gone. All your efforts, all your acheivements, all your attainments turning into dust, nothingness... what is the feeling? what happens to you? The idea of God as the potter, the architect of the universe, it makes you feel that life is, after all, important, that there is someone who cares. It has meaning, it has sense, and you are valuable in the eyes of the father. But after a while it got embarrassing, the superstition, the myth, the absolutely unfounded idea... why does anybody believe that? So you become an atheist, and then you feel terrible after that because you got rid of God... but that means you got rid of yourself, you're just nothing but a machine... And your idea that you're a machine is just a machine too... (a machine in the system)... So if you think that that's the way things are, you feel hostile to the world. You feel that the world is a neurological trap into which you somehow got caught... trapped... You run from the maternity ward to the crematorium and that's it... that's it... So if you're a smart kid you commit suicide. Now I want to propose another idea all together... The real you, is not a puppet which life pushes around. The real you, the real deep down you, is the whole universe. You cannot confine yourself to what happens inside the skin. Your skin doesn't separate you from the world, it's a bridge. But just as a magnet polarizes its-self in north and south but its all one magnet, so experience polarizes itself as "Self" and "Other", but it's all one. What you call the "External world" is as much YOU as your own body. Most people think that when they open they're eyes and look around that what they are seeing is outside... it seems, doesn't it, that you are behind your eyes. We haven't realized that life and death, black and white, good and evil, being and non-being, come from the same center. When you look for your own particularized center of being which is separate from everything else, you wont be able to find it. The only way you'll know it isn't there is if you look hard enough, to find out that it isn't there. It isn't there at all, there isn't a separate you. There are, in physical reality, no such things as separate events. People can't be talked out of illusions. If a person believes that the earth is flat, you can't talk him out of that, he knows that it's flat. He'll go down to the window and see that its obvious, it looks flat. So the only way to convince him that it isn't is to say, "Well let's go and find the edge".

Originally, experience means to go through with/to end....To not carry experience over as a projection onto the present movement experiencing. But that is not what we do. We cling to experience and project forward onto the “dynamic now” When this is the case, all present experience implies “the accumulation of the past, “knowledge/memory”, and that recollection is then projected in the form of a new experience. But that experience is not new if it is influenced by the accumulation of memory, knowledge, and past experiencings. Any movement as such is a movement of thought, no matter how much one feels thought was not in movement. If a experience is identified it is a movement of thought “the known” Any experience implies the movement of thought/the thinker. In this case the experience and experiencer are one in the same movement. When/If, the movement of experience “knowledge/memory, being static”, ceases to be carried over onto the dynamic now, “not recorded and therefore projected” then no content/movement of the self, “thinker/thought”, will be projected as an experience at all. If all that movement of self ceases to manifest, so does the experience/experiencer who experiences. Which implies there is no-body to identify with any-thing. The ultimate freedom. If there is no such dualistic movement of thought taking place then that implies whole action that is not divisive and fragmented by a center/ego/thought..... This implies that the center “the i” is not. This is what is considered “ONENESS/NON-DUAL”... In this all movement ‘without’ such dualistic action implies whole action, complete action, the action of truth. Infinite, absolute, immeasurable. WHEN THIS DUALISTIC MOVEMENT CEASES, THAT IS THE ACTION OF TRUTH ITSELF. THIS IS EMBODIMENT OF TRUTH, THE INFINITE, ABSOLUTE, THE IMMEASURABLE. BUT THERE IS NO IDENTIFICATION/EXPERIENCE OF SUCH IMMENSE ENERGY. CENTERLESSNESS IMPLIES NOTHINGNESS AND NOTHINGNESS IMPLIES THE ABSENCE OF IDENTIFICATION/EXPERIENCE THE ENDING OF TIME.

Me? I don't really have any desire or amusement from slapping someone. I used to have a punching bag though and it was a good stress reliever and a way to let out explosive energy. Appreciate the kind words, I'm just recycling information that reality/the universe has given me, they all came from somewhere else, someone else, and it's forever changing experiences. The only things I am sure of as a constant never changing exprience is the silence/emptiness/nothingness that is not changing. I remember a quote somewhere maybe it was here on this forum: a man asked a blind man "what is it like to be blind? is it dark/black? The blind man replied "What is it like to not see from the back of your head?" what would the world look like if we had echolocation

He's still at it. This entire thread: Robert "your opinion is wrong, your logic is wrong, nothingness is not real, your experiences are invalid, go meditate more to be at my level". & "I know it all, my opinion is the best, my logic is truth, I know everything you know nothing, listen to me, STUPIDS!" & "stop putting words in my mouth!!!" Trolling with a sprinkle of saltiness. You win man, you are right! PS. i dont even know what we are debating about, all i remember is robert just disagreeing and ridiculing others whilst quoting them.

Fair point, although i wonder if there are some sentient beings which a car indeed could NOT hurt. (For example, for all we know some extraterrestrial life could be so alien to us that we can't even interact with them, including with cars. Or maybe the Earth herself has some kind of subjective experience... Although im sure she would dislike cars smh global warming). "Objective" to me actually means what is the nature of something regardless of any life form / subjective perspective of it. This almost necessitates that there is no objectivity. What does a car look like ovjectively, despite any subjective take on it? Pure nothingness, black hole singularity etc. Tbf the question doesn't make sense... to look like something requires subjectivity. You would think "well mass energy charge and other fundamental qualities etc of an object (like the ability to run humans over) ARE objectively intrinsic qualities of those objects"... which makes perfect sense from our human intuition... however modern physics is strongly supporting that things have no intrinsic qualities on their own independent of the observation of them. There aren't even any "things" independent of our experience of them. For example, the photon that was not in a location / in every location / transcended "location" that was suddenly in spot A when observed... There wasn't actually a photon doing any of that, only the appearance of a photon (and the appearance of a scientist looking for the photon...) Similarly for a car running @Faceless over and killing him. Not to act like it's nbd.... The pain would appear to be real as would the grief it caused to all of us actualizers who enjoy reading his far out posts!

Eyeballs and black holes.... nothingness / singularity.

Holy crap! That's so much stuff to try and learn to live in nothingness. But like they say, nothing worth achieving is easy

Well that’s true in the sense that the description is never the described. TRUTH CAN NOT BE COMMUNICATED IN ITSELF. I LITERALY MEAN THIS IMMEASURABLE NOTHINGNESS IS NOT REMEBERED BECAUSE THERE WAS NO EXPERIENCER THERE TO RECOGNIZE AND RECORD A WORLD OF THINGS. WHEN THIS HAPPENES I DONT RECAL THIS “HAPPENING” THERE IS JUST A COMING TO. ITS QUITE STRANGE INDEED.

Nothingness is real, it is the only constant in my being I'm sorry you haven't seen it, "Where is that moon that never rises or sets, where is that soul that is neither with nor without us, Don't say it is here or there, all creation is "that" but for the eyes that can see." "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about. Ideas, language, even the phrase “each other” doesn’t make any sense. The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you. Don’t go back to sleep. You must ask for what you really want. Don’t go back to sleep. People are going back and forth across the doorsill where the two worlds touch. The door is round and open. Don’t go back to sleep.”

Everything ends. There is no me at all. Goes beyond words. Even the imagination ceases to operate. The thing, is I’m not quite sure what I said above in your thread, because my memory of this doesn’t exsist. Everything I say to you is very partial. As I don’t recollect this immeasurable/nothingness. There is no-thing “self” there to record. So my description is “extremely” partial indeed. THATS WHY I SAY “SEE FOR YOURSELF”

Thanks faceless! This is great! This is where words ends, and the unnamable nothingness "unfolds"(but NOT within time) Namaste.

This is all an idea/theory unless thought ACTUALLY and TOTALLY ceases to move.... Without thought, when the center comes to an end, there is no duality taking place. There is no entity that is self aware, as that implies the veil of thought “knowledge, experience, memory” is still in movement. There is no here or there, this or that, and no other type of reference points in that sense. There is no movement of memory/experience interpreting at all. When there is no experiencer/experience determining and interfering with what is, there is only the UNNAMABLE/IMMEASURABLE. This is Nothingness THE ULTIMATE FREEDOM

Without the ego, what are you? An utter emptiness, nothingness, no-thingness. It is because of this that the ego apparently exists, it is indeed to create order. The ego is needed for self-preservation and self-worth etc, it's a primitive thing but necessary in the process of development. Ultimately the ego just IS, only with the ceasing of thoughts does the ego die. Only a few does that. This is beyond a simple ego-death where the ego always comes back.

Going to burst some bubbles here. This whole I need to help others and society is a mind created concept, the only reason you find it important is because you and your beliefs have given it importance. Also there is a lot of brain washing in society and spirituality how "we should help others". It is futile, its like saying I want to stop animal slaughter, or I want to protect the ants, or the plants or the rocks from harm. Every path is a valid path, if it exists it's reality, it's creations/God's will. Just worry about living your life the way you want, expressing your genuine self. Just imagine your future and where you're going to be in your death bed, now what will make you the most happy about your life what would have been a fullfilling life FOR YOU? For example if you said: Travelling the world and seeing all corners and experiencing all culture and seeing as much as possible before you die. Then you have no business helping others really. The reason why people like helping others is for selfish reasons, they feel better, more alive, more useful if you want that that then do that but not everyone is going to feel great about helping others, some people will outright hate helping others and can't stand it, that's fine too, no need to be miserable because of "shoulds" not every mind is built to enjoy the same things. Life is what you make of it, what you design out of it, what you value and what you put importance to. Nothing has inherited importance, you're born out of nothingness, everyone one you help on this planet, isn't going to exist in your consciousness once you drop the illusion of "this current body". In a way all your doing is helping people in your dream, better to focus on enjoying your dream to the maximum. And remember CONSQEUNCES! Don't do negative stuff if you dont accept or want the consquences.

Some people call the only substance there is to reality for consciousness, others call it nothingness. What ever you call it - void, oneness, God's only being, consciousness, nothingness, pure light, infinite eternal awareness etcetera - after all, that's just a bunch of words, concepts that is. However, let's agree on the fact that there is only ONE substance(whatever that should be named) that makes up for everything that is known to us as realty(aka the inner(awareness) and outer world). But! Is there any way to prove that there is only this ONE substance to reality? Any proof at all? This one substance can transform itself to matter, minerals, plants, animals, humans, minds, worlds, stars, galaxies - you name it. But how can we be sure there aren't more the ONE fundamental substance that makes everything come in to existence? Why not two, three or even more substances that coexist and aren't "born" out of any of the other substances? Here's one great clip regarding "What is the Substance of Experience?"

If there is a want this implies experience/thought/duality is in movement and has projected a “wanting from a wanter” If this is the case truth “nothingness” is not.

Only when experience/experiencer ends is there nothingness. Personal experience implies the past “knowledge, past experience, through memory” therefore a projection of thought. This is a fact. Explore. It’s quite interesting indeed.