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Right, but we are talking about beings that do not look past concepts. The mundane path of Buddhism, is, you are correct the reduction of suffering. This is also the secular path that people in the west practice. But the ultimate goal is liberation. The Buddha called it "the heartwood" of his teachings. Can read the Sutta on this here: http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/middle-length-discourses-buddha/selections/middle-length-discourses-29-mahasaropama-sutta You can, and I do enjoy life... but at the same time I know it is ultimately meaningless beyond the meaning I give it, impermanent, and will come to an end, and with that suffering, disease, old age, etc. And ultimately it is unsatisfactory. All of these are part of life and I fully accept them. But that is also why I see material things as meaningless, or "empty". Each of the steps of the Noble Eightfold Path has a "mundane" and "supermundane"(this is the heartwood) goal. The Bodhisattva vow is taken, usually, by Tibetan Buddhists, Theravada Buddhists think this is foolhardy because only another Buddha can tell if you can actually fulfil the vow. What ends up happening, the theory goes, is that some people might become future Buddhas, but some will not, and they will be stuck in existence till they either break the vow, or meet another Buddha that will tell them "Hey, you don't have the muster to fulfill this path, drop it!" The Buddha we know, took 4 mahakalpas(which is the expansion and dissolution of four universes) to realize full enlightenment. Of course all of this is kind of conjecture as we do not actually "know" if any of it is "true". I do not remember my past rebirths, supposedly that comes as you remove more of the fetters, and become an Arhant.

Actually me too.. Everything I'm try so hard now is to finish my responsibility. After that, my goal is to do whatever that would make me easier to attain full enlightenment.

You can make it work either way. The problem is that the ego doesn't want to make it work either way. The road to full enlightenment is not gonna be easy no matter how you slice and dice it. I personally think living in the woods for a few years is a great idea, especially if you have few obligations and are able. But that's just me. Living your whole life in the woods is not necessary. It's only helpful for a short while to unaddict yourself from society and to get the focus to have those first few critical enlightenment experiences.

An idea sprung across today while sitting in bed and examining my awareness. I am looking for some feedback from people who have experienced enlightenment. "The Golden Rule" of religion, which I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with, says that all Religion in some shape or form points to the idea of "treating others how you want to be treated" (just to clarify what I'm trying to get out of this is irrelevant to religious dogma or any beliefs--I have no stance on these topics). From what I've taken from Leo's videos is that existentially we are the field of awareness in the current "now", and the energy within it perhaps...and of course, we are separate beings from the thoughts and the mind. From experience and watching others, it seems as if the mind is an "attention seekers", looking for external stimulation and rewards and such. Since we ARE existentially the field of awareness and the energy within in, would treating others (including your belongings such as a blanket) that are present in the field of awareness the way it wants to be treated benefit the energy you feel in the body? For example, when you see your crumpled up blanket, would the energy within you be more desirable if you were to take care or even just show attention to the blanket by folding it and treating it as if YOU WERE that crumpled up blanket? And while doing so, making no judgement while being aware that it is crumbled up. Is this why in enlightenment, the things you create and do have more quality in them? I have not reached full enlightenment, and was wondering if this is relevant to enlightenment and if this could be a form of empirical work if you were not labeling yourself with the ego while doing so, and instead being the awareness and energy you sense in the "now". Thanks

"the best way to work for enlightenment is being in present moment and noticing reality." Well, I try to notice the Reality and try to be in the present moment, and? Means, I do something wrong if not Enlightened yet? Something tells me it is not enough to get a full Enlightenment. Am I wrong?

one term is no better than another. Just concepts... but between the first experiencing of TRUTH and "full enlightenment", there is a path. Discovering TRUTH is first step. Battling with dying mind is next. Surrendering to TRUTH is next. Merging with God is next. ... etc

If you want to do quick self-inquiry while walking around, just place your attention on your deepest sense of self. That sense of self which is the witness, but not the body, mind, or ego. And just silently hold your attention there. This is actually what Ramana's self-inquiry process was. The question, Who am I?, is itself irrelevant. It's a function of the monkey mind. You need to actually train your awareness of the sense of awareness itself and hold it there without distraction. This can be done even while you're doing chores around the house or driving your car. You could use this one method to reach full enlightenment without ever engaging your logical mind in questioning or seeking, or ever putting pen to paper.

@Water @Sigma @shouldnt Well... Thanks to you guys ^^ First time ever doing masturbation for me, age 19 x) I know, my name is Ken, so I should already have f***** a couples of barbies at this age, but that's not the cas at all for me ^^ This morning, I woke up, and told to myself... I need to try and see by myself what's that, and to overcome my fear of doing it. I try to force mysel doing while watching porn... but it didn't worked at all, porn just disgusted me. Later during the day, I fely naturally turned on by a youtube video I watched (but it wasn't forced, I was just like following the flow of my feelings) and I did it ;p I forgot the fear and the pride I had, and it worked I can tell you that this first time for me just blew my mind I wasn't expecting that much pleasure... I have to manage that now, thanks x) I see that as a powerfull drug, because I never experienced it before, anf that what it feel like... And indeen, looking at the society today, it is a powerfull drug. My body was asking me more 5 hours later x) It was just so great... I only spend less that 5 or 10 minutes doing that, and when I finshed I encounter a very new sensation for me that I never really felt before... Amazing, great invention x) It released a lot of tensions out of my body, and I felt like my brain had a pleasure shot... During the all day after, I was felling better than before, and I was able to avoid sugar much more easily than usual (because I'm addicted to sugar for a couple of months now... I'm not fat, but I just eat too much of it, sometimes it can be insane for me). I was thinking that in order to do that, you had to spent so much of your time that it was insane, but what I experienced is that, following a natural rise (and not forcing it), it can be just 5 or 10 minutes spend, and the result can be a great relaxation of the body and the mind. Well, It's kind of very weird to masturbate for the first time at 19... But I'm glad I didn't do it earlier, because now that I'm really into self actualization, I'm gonna be able to avoid falling into an addiction... I was just feeling like a human being without sex before... I I was feeling very good as well. I don't change my poinion, sex isn't a need I'm able to perfectly live without it. Now I understand that if I have this human body, and if I have the desires and feelings, I have first to fully apreciate that, and to live experiences, and only then will I be able to transcend that in order to discover a full enlightenment. I see sex and masturbation as... a tool, something pleasurable we can enjoy, similar to good food, similar to football. I live it as somethong more fulfilling than good food, and fooball actually, but that's the same basis, chemicals in our brain telling us that our body is feeling great. Like everything in life, there is a middle way with sex... You can blive one extreme (Like I was) and totally forget it, or live the other extreme, being sexaddict for example... But the best way might be the middle one... Just enough, listening to what you feel in the inside, to what you feel is right for you at this moment. I think that having sex (alone or with someone else) something like once every two days for example (depending on what each individual is feeling), in order to relax and enjoy a good pleasure is great That's what I'm gonna do from now on, and also because I know that it will help me a lot in order to control sugar addiction. Now, shouldnt, I wasn't stopping me from having pleasure... well, I wasn't feeling this way at all... Or maybe that I was doing it, but unconsciously, I wasn't aware of it... simply because I didn't know what it felt like... That the first time I had an orgasm today... I didn't even knew this pleasure existed... Great invention, yeah. Now that I now that sex is pleasurable and that I can enjoy it, I'm gonna use it wisely, in order to release tension when I too stressed... I'm quiet on the outside, but sometimes, I'm angry in the inside... angry at the world (too blind in the opinion of my ego...) and angry at myself (when I eat too much sugar for example... afterward, I'm like "Why did you just do ? You are gonna be sick ! You're rubbish"). I'm also feeling that I might replace my sugar addiction for that... but the root of the problem wouldn't be resolven I would still feel a lack of something in the inside... That's why I'm reading an interesting book from Peter Ralston (pursuing consciousness) about transformation and enlightenment, in order for me to really transform myself from the deep roots. There are so many stuff deeply rooted in us that we are unconscious of... that's crazy... but it's so interesting to do self inquiry. Sex is a need... untill it isn't (or feel like a need, util it doesn't anymore). I feel that I need to experiment before transcending it, and that's what I'm gonna do. Thanks so much to you guys, and to this forum, it's making me self actualizing even more

@tropicana All the methods are very similar. They all involve sitting in mind-numbing boredom for 100s of hours and concentrating on direct experience. There are many individual techniques for how to do that. And most of them come in a giant pile of dogma. Here's one cool way: Sit with your eyes closed and just focus on the sounds around you. Do this for long enough until you realize that there is no you hearing the sounds, but that you in fact are the sounds! BAM! Enlightenment! You could use this one technique to reach full enlightenment. The trick is never in the technique. The trick is simply motivating yourself to actually sit down and execute it. Every fiber of your ego will resist it.

I suppose that no one has license on having "optimal path to enlightenment". Buddha as a being was no better or worse than me. He lived on exactly the same terms as we do. "What is enlightenment, which is so often said to be the ultimate goal of meditation? There are many esoteric details that we can safely ignore—disagreements among contemplative traditions about what, exactly, is gained or lost at the end of the spiritual path. Many of these claims are preposterous. Within most schools of Buddhism, for instance, a buddha—whether the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, or any other person who attains the state of “full enlightenment”—is generally described as “omniscient.” But actually what does it means? "omniscient", "omnipotent" or "omni-anything"? Is it reasonable to expect that an ascetic in the fifth century BC, by virtue of his meditative insights, spontaneously became an unprecedented genius in every field of human inquiry, including those that did not exist at the time in which he lived? ... I doubt it. Knowledge of self that one can attain in pursuit of enlightenment is different category than knowledge of the objective, material reality that is normally thought as our natural environment that we live in. The similarity lies in the experiential side of the study. When you do natural science, you use scientific method. Start with hypothesis that is foundation to make experiment and observe whether hypothesis is empirically valid. Then you can do it again and again, and perhaps formulate some general formula like Law of physics for phenomenon that you study. In case of studying awareness, you can do analogously: Claim Hypothesis: There is no discrete self or ego living like a Minotaur in the labyrinth of the brain. Do Experience: Meditation session And result is ... everyone has to check it by himself. I don't trust in any claims of any guru or contemplative master like Budda or Jesus. There is no spiritual authority that I will just blindy follow. Of course the role of the teacher giving "pointing-out" instructions may be very helpful but in the end human experience is irreducibly subjective. So everyone must decide for himself independently and approach it rather with skepticism because there is so much hustle in this spirituality business. Natural science is easier, because probably you don't have any emotional inclinations towards "outer, physical reality". So it's easy to make objective, third-person observations. No one will deny for example discovered by Newton Second Law of dynamics: F=a*m. It complies with our intuitive imagination of how physical objects behave. For example: "There is two objects with different masses. Both are free falling from the same attitude. The heavier object will hit the ground with greater force than the lighter one." Now, in case of studying awareness, there is an obstacle: Actually, you are awareness. But on the same time, you already have concept of self and very deep-rooted sense of identity based on your life experiences, thoughts, beliefs and so on. So there is a conflict. The teachings of Buddhism and Advaita are best viewed as lab manuals and explorers’ logs detailing the results of empirical research on the nature of human consciousness. But of course you won't approach it with the same degree of neutral unprejudiced demeanor as in class of physics. I think introspection/meditation is just study on consciousness itself and to me, there is no evident relation between awareness and as you said, good will toward others and right behavior. It is necessary to govern own's life with ethics, but awareness is simply what it is. Nothing more or less.

This topic may be closed. Thx a lot for the very helpful posts@Pinocchio @jjer94 @Emerald Wilkins @mkieblesz , your post in that other topic yesterday was pure gold imo. I guess there's even a lot more wisdom in jed's books than i initially thought. Leo, your know-all, almost dogmatic and forceful way of preaching enlightenment as the highest value and only way to happiness turns me a bit off — probably partly because there is some truth in it. I know you don't really mean it that way as you said at the end of your enlightenment experience vid, but still, keep always in mind that your perspective is just that- a perspective, and since life is very likely meaningless, there is no ultimate secret or way to live it and no need to take it so seriously. Most people simply prefer the dream over truth and that's just fine, i think jed is quite right in a way and not just dramatizing when he said that truth is a booby-prize. It would also be more convincing if you first got "full enlightenment" before you talked about how heavenly and amazing it is, but i guess you already know that. Anyway, i think some of your videos are awesome so by all means keep going(or not, if it holds you back from finding truth ;-) ).

I wouldn't be surprised if Eckhart Tolle is enlightened. But I think his teachings are mostly just about becoming conscious of your unconsciousness, i.e beginning of the breaking of identification with thoughts and emotions. Not full enlightenment. Only the early stages.

I have re written this post a number of times. Something you wrote touched something within me and I couldnt quite figure it out. You view your self development work as more important than the relationships that you have. Yet for me my family and friends are much more important. I would rather miss a yoga class and be with a loved one. I would prefer to help a family member get closer to enlightenment then for me to reach full enlightenment. It is all a grand, spectactular, illusion and I want to experience it with those I love.

Zen has modeled the stages towards full enlightenment as so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bulls You have a LONG way's to go, grasshopper, so make yourself comfy

I edited my map to reflect this point. Thanks for mentioning that. @shouldnt My map was very misleading due to the phrase "full enlightenment". Forget about what I said before. You can still be fully aligned with Truth and play the human game. I edited my post so that you can get a clearer picture.

@jjer94 never heard of this. What do you mean unable to function in society? So you're saying the average person can't reach full enlightenment if they want to live in society, huh. I've never thought about that. I always thought you could be able to switch to accommodate the people you were around or the situation because it's not like you forget what it's like to be human, right? xp I need to look those people up.