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the mind-body is effected by its environment. Often what happens when awakening happens or progress towards awakening (although this is a illusion of sorts) what your pointing to as the mind-body is effected since awaking up is the same as environmental change, like moving from a violent ghetto to a more tranquil suburb in america. Psychological effects are going to natural happen, since "environmental" triggers/threats have disappeared. So awakening to Self is from a mind-body standpoint a moving to a new location. You see, generally environment is interpreted by mind-body as you use it in a "I'm here", and theres an internal environment to me and an external one called outside (tree's, birds, humans, etc). Awakening turns this on its head and distinctions are blurred, stripped and one can see ultimately there is no outer/inner (along with this awakening there is generally new truths and understanding that strip away psychological suffering as well, generally cultivated through spiritual practice/inquiry). All these factors are a radical moving to a new environment from the Mind-Body stand point. This new environment has new qualities or "new residents" called bliss, expansiveness, calm, thrill, freedom, ease, love, joy. The Mind-Body (personality) then in this apparent new environment are often effected as a result.

I have a long history with psychedelics. Having done Ayauasca many times. Each time has been a smooth experience, full of love, surrender, oneness and bliss. But, when it comes to 5-Meo, I find myself terrified to do the first trip. I fear my death. I regularly have debilitating panic attacks. I fear my first time, I will get a bad panic attack and then have no way to let go, to surrender. Just 30 minutes of pure hell. Then I doubt I'd have the courage to try it again. No enlightenment, no liberation. So I find myself at an impasse, not able to find the courage to 'pull the trigger'. So I had an idea. Since the Ayauasca was such a beautiful experience, if I took Ayauasca just before doing the 5-Meo, putting myself in the right space (pure bliss, love and peace) I'd be much more capable of fully letting go with the 5-Meo. So my question is, how long after doing Ayauasca should I wait to do 5-Meo? Could I do it the next day? @Leo Gura

Do you have active kundalini, and if so, what insight has it specifically unlocked so far? What is your understanding of bliss?

@SOUL "Contemplate your own experience, couldn't it be said that the deepest and clearest insights come from those moments when the clarity of the unattached awareness is perceiving reality without the veil of self identity obscuring it? How can we have genuine and clear insight with the conditioned self identity filtering our perception? So it seems that attachment doesn't lead to insight but it is liberation, unattached perception, that leads to insight." Definitely moments where that happened. But also ones in which there was confusion happening simultaneously from what I believe your referring to as the self identity. Waking up isn't bound to any particular set of circumstances, emotional, though, feeling of "I" or its cessation, bliss happening, calm happening, love happening, oneness feeling. These all can be metaphorical pointers to the remembrance and understanding of what you are.

What you did was probably not designed for producing happyness. Maybe it was opening chakras or third eye or enlightenment or psychic abilities or who knows what you were doing. It's extremely subtle process. Each kriya does different things I guarentee you. If you do shambhavi you get there in 2-3months and then you go take a blood sample and your blood chemestry will be changed. Chemistry of joy and happyness. This is guarenteed to you like science. If I said it takes 20min to boil the rice. It's like that. It takes 2-3months to boil you from inside into a bliss manifacturing being.

Yeah I see them as the same anyhow. But from the place of confusion, fear, that divided state of self, observation seems to be constantly based on reward/illusion which makes it always partial/limited. You know what I mean. Freedom that I refer too was in itself bliss/peace-nothingness/emptiness. It was a freedom without searching that was influenced by a reaction of lack of freedom. See what I mean?

@Jack River winter said it’s cool to substitute nothingness/emptiness for peace/bliss - so it’s the same context / concept he is pointing to. So, I’m considering his usage of peace/bliss to be synonymous with nothingness/stillness/emptiness in our conversation- unless he draws a new dinstinction

@Serotoninluv that sense of depending on reward or “bliss” seems to lead to illusion. As the self clings to such an idea of bliss as that “future state” to be attained. Ego seems to project its reward in time. Such as projecting enlightenment as a fixed thing in time/future.

That’s why I prefer “nothingness/emptiness” over “bliss”. Seekers seem likely to associate bliss as satisfaction and trigger the self to chase. The self is unlikely to chase “nothing/empty”

"Peace" and "Bliss" are loaded terms for my self. Would it be ok to rephrase it as "If these thoughts are simply happening, as if automatically, in an atmosphere of total nothingness/stillness/emptiness, well, no problem."

@Mu_ If you actually did read the discussion that you call good you would have noticed we did discuss the different words that could be used so why make that a point of contention. Whether one prefers to use craving or suffering or desire it doesn't matter really since they all stem from an existential yearning that appears to be what disturbs our peace and contentment. Much of the rest you talk about to me is the ceremony and adornment of the path but for my own experience I am a minimalist with regard to the path. Too much complication and complexity in the path appears to distract a very many from the genuine purpose of it, the cessation of this existential yearning that manifests as the craving, suffering and desire in us. I have found from decades of being in spiritual circles of seekers that the monkey mind wants to mentally masturbate over the complicated complexity of the ceremony and adornment along the path as a distraction so that the cessation of yearning gets lost or ignored in favor of the path to it. They become attached to the complex ritual of the path. This attachment quite often is cultivated by seeking 'understanding' expressed as the direct insight of the complicated path instead of that direct experience of being present in peace and equanimity. Once I did have direct experience of being present in peace a sense of bliss and fulfillment quenched the existential yearning and I realized the attachment to the complicated ritualized path is what was keeping me from it. @Emanyalpsid Contemplate your own experience, couldn't it be said that the deepest and clearest insights come from those moments when the clarity of the unattached awareness is perceiving reality without the veil of self identity obscuring it? How can we have genuine and clear insight with the conditioned self identity filtering our perception? So it seems that attachment doesn't lead to insight but it is liberation, unattached perception, that leads to insight.

Good discussion, but thought I'd just chim in with on thing. Many awakened teachers from different traditions and even within the Buddhist tradition talk about awakening in different ways. For example you seem to have a strong opinion that liberation is the end of suffering, which I've heard as the end of craving, but not the same as actual discomfort, sadness, pain, struggle, frustration, pretty much the span of the human state. Suzuki Roshi said its like normal everyday life but about 1 inch off the ground. He aludes to there being more energy and warmth of heart. I believe some Hindu religions point to state of awakening that are like BOOM constant bliss, ectasy and and direct connection with the consciousness of life itself in which you understand all information, can fly, make gold appear. Neo-Advita I believe is seeing the radical truth that Self is never not the case and no need for the cultivation of the human being. One can do what ever they want and its all the play of Self. Your an asshole, you can stay an asshole and being free because thats what is the case. Bliss may come and go, love may come and go, you may hate, you may suffer, but your hands have been freed from believing you are the doer. The list goes on and on.... This is why I've never said I'm enlightened expect in a recent post in which someone asked if there were any others on the forum, but I tried to put clear indicators of what that meant, but dont think I did a good job. There's definately something to this spiritual/seeking/enlightening/awakening thing but where you draw a line and define what makes someone or knowing in ones self what enlightened is, is slightly difficult, because there are no objective standards. I guess for me its knowing without a shred of doubt what you are and the craving to seek has seized. Its almost kinda funny because one could describe it as almost where you started. someone would ask you who you are and you would know without a shred of doubt that your one with Self, and they would ask well how do you know, and the best answer you could honestly give is, well its obvious what are you talking about, just like you would when you had no idea that you were anything other then just a guy who was born with no connection to Self, it would just be obviously so to you. The coming and going of expansive states of consciousness come and go, bliss and love would come and go, struggles and challenges with normal every day life will continue to happen, inifinity and explosion into area's that are mysterious come and go, new insights into human/scientific functioning and capacity continue to form, the body will still decay, Alzheimers may still happen, a heart attack could be around the corner, but a steadiness, equanimity, non-clinging and understanding remains.

Felt this sub forum was the correct one to honor a true creative who followed his life purpose. I’m not much of a comic book guy (nor have I really been - just never got into it) but just wanted to say RIP to a guy who truly and relentlesy followed his own bliss.

I had to pass around 1 year of agony and confusion to a depression like level, suicidal feelings, and unworthy existence. The same pain you can identify in the body, that is your guide, the numbness in a limb per example or a gnot in the plexus or a high pressure in the skull in the right side. Dwelve into that pain, into that confusion, into that agony, into that numbness, don't be afraid to be lost, there is only bliss behind.

@Nadosa Perhaps. Yet perhaps it is only as difficult as you make it out to be. Regardless the outcome is well worth it. Every human being has the god given right to live a life of bliss.

Then why complain about the depression and the sadness? After all, these fleeting states amount to the excitement and drama of life. Give it a try. What you call boring might end up being bliss instead.

For who do all those thoughts/emotions/feelings arise? Who is the subject? Saying that "I seem to be stuck..." amounts to saying that I am a thought, which in case "thinks" accepting reality seems unfair. Being stuck in the egotistic paradigm is what causes you to not realize your enlightenment. The word "I" and believing to be this "I" is what creates duality in the first place. Realize this and all worries disappear in a blink of an eye, and is replaced by bliss.

The Self's very nature is what I'm talking about. The Self's nature is to know itself nondually. That's what it is to be Self. No, I don't think it's a great analogy, but not for reasons I can explain. I get the sense you are trying hard to intellectualize the realization. Your mind is working overtime to try to conquer this problem, to digest it, to "know" it. Not gonna happen. Thinking and the mind must, in the end, be given up to see the Truth. Yes, it is bliss, yes, I am aware of it all at times -- but it is not the bliss that you think of when you think of mental bliss. It is not mental bliss. Mental bliss exists in contrast: "I wasn't blissful, then I did this (say, self-inquiry), then I was blissful." That's mental bliss, the bliss that comes and goes. That's not what I'm talking about. The bliss I'm talking about has never stopped. The mind is not aware of it at all times. I am, though, but not in a mental (that is, dualistic) way. When you realize that the very idea of forgetting the Self doesn't even make sense... that's Enlightenment. Look, we could say that the mind is still active, that the enlightened person also has vasanas that arise. In one sense that is true. In a deeper sense, however, it is not, since the enlightened person does not acknowledge the reality -- or even the appearance -- of the mind. Yes, this sounds correct. Good work. Keep going. Just to be clear, I wouldn't describe it as looking for your consciousness but as looking for the "I." It's a small difference, and they are very related, but I would emphasize the "I." "Here's what I'm doing," you write. Who is this "I" who knows what he's doing? You're already enlightened, so it doesn't matter. But that stream of me thoughts may seem to be quite unnecessarily unhappy. I don't know, sorry. As far as I am concerned these are not related to enlightenment.

When a human being enters the journey of self-discovery it is a very painful process, due to the re-routing of the physical an emotional processes that lead to genuine awakening. Remember! No Pain, No Gain. Those who deluded themselves of a pleasurable journey are stuck in their heads. Only in pain, one encounters the bliss.

Is this ''non-objective experience'' bliss itself? Are you aware of 'it' all your waking hours? This really resonates with me. Everytime I've had lightbulb moments through self-inquiry, it always felt blissful...for absolutely no reason at all. It wasn't an experience, there was really nothing special going on. The first thought that arises is, ''oh crap! this is soo obvious. How come I ever missed it? How can I ever loose this?'' But then again, this 'stateless state' would eventually be forgotten due latent mental tendencies/Vasanas/thoughts. When you never forget that Self no matter what, is that permanent Enlightenment?

@Serotoninluvif I find some psychedelics to be in my reach I will be happy to jump on board However just the one has led to some radical realizations @Jack Riverunderstand ?? you spoke of distinctions ending and this was in no self while you were out on the water? Was their sounds? You make it sound like a trance. The first memory I have of no self I was literally gliding around in total bliss ? complete oneness being awareness

I appreciate your thoughts but I disagree. I'm not particularly interested in getting into a debate about it, though. Thanks, but the truth it doesn't really matter all that much one way or the other in the end. There is a direct experience of the Truth that is more important than the theories. 1. Whether there is pain depends upon your context. There may appear that there is, but there is not, actually. This can only be understood when you know your true nature yourself. 2. No, enlightenment is a matter of piercing the illusion of personal identity. The best way is Ramana Maharshi's self-inquiry combined with other practices to quiet the mind. There's no real use trying to understand the enlightened state beforehand, except to know that it is pure truth and bliss. It is beyond words and concepts, actually, and best not to weigh yourself down with expectations. You cannot fully surrender on your own. You can only partially surrender -- that's the most you can do. What that means is that you accept whatever happens -- both in the outside world, and in terms of your thoughts and emotions. Let it go. Let it all go. Let decisions go. Let pain go. Let the need to change things go. Or if you feel that need, let that go. Whatever you do, think, or feel, let it go, let it go, let it go. Whatever pain you experience, let it go. Whatever desire you have, let it go. If you feel like you cannot let it go, let that feeling go too. That is the continuous effort of surrender. This will turn into full surrender but you cannot control when that happens. The other possibility is to practice Ramana Maharshi's self-inquiry at all waking moments, which will automatically turn into full surrender at a certain point.

Hi, guys. Heads up. This is a post about sinking into the meaninglessness of everything, and I will include my own experience as well as many of us. I had problems sleeping most of my life. Most of us have been lying awake in a deep hole, thinking about the world. The meaning. Death. Will I be in an endless black void after my death, until the universe collapse? Infinite darkness. For us who have have these "haunted" (blessed) thoughts know how anxiety, depression and stress works and feels, and how much "muddy" water we have in our cup. How insanely intelligent you are. It`s "rude" to even try project any vocabular on it. My/Our thoughts have been fixated on these issues, for most of my life. Always there. Whenever I was still, I got into this. Twisting the beliefs of atoms as fundemental blocks, only to hear about newer and newer discoveries. String. Void. Now here is where the frustration really went big. What the fuck is this made out of? Who or what "wrote" the laws?! It simply can not be this. Science is explaining all of it, by theory (lol), and no matter how much the paradigm invent, they still was relaxed about the idea of Big Bang. This was just kinda waved over to the side, agreed upon and back to sleep. Cracks me up. We know all about the mechanics, but the blueprint was left murky. Late 2017 we had come this far in science, but scientists had only 5 possible theories to what consciousness is. This brings my palm to my forhead. One year ago I gave up my life. I guess most of us experienced this beautiful moment. I quit geology, quit bodybuilding, quit surfing, and gave up my image. I could not see any meaning anymore. I did my first open eyes meditation in a pool, where after about 2 mins my mind exploded in an instant. "I came back" to myself, looking around at everything in great fear and confusion. I saw the fundemental ego, just like that. Boom, there it was. Of course I got sick, and had to go home, where I did not recognize my appartement. Two weeks of insanity came, where I fell over Alan Watts and Leo. I can not describe how thankful I am for these two sources. Thank you, of all my heart. The words are pathetic to my authentic feeling of love and appreciation. Now, I did live about 6-7 months in pure bliss. "Realising" I am infinite and can`t die. Which funny enough makes so god damn sense, it´s amazing. Some months ago I contemplated on "What is meaning?" for 9 days, 45 minutes each session, and got results. But only a vast intellectual understanding. The feeling of it came one month ago. Now, whatever I want to do I can feel the meaninglessness of it and I give up. Even before I start. I can feel the meaninglessness in objects, thoughts, actually also in family and friends. In life. Whatever meaning there is I have to consciously create it, out of nothing. I am now in a state of smoking weed, playing computer, and not doing anything to get anywhere. Just little me, isolated in my apartement, looking out of the window in awe of it all, but can`t find any meaning. It is a full on helplessness state. And a week ago I honestly felt the bottom of it. I was starved, high as fuck, in my goodie chair and staring at the wall. "This is it". "The bottom". The knowledge of thoughts and ego told me in this moment, that whatever i was saying it was bullshit, but the feeling was very real. I also know "if I am observing it, by definition it is not me", so I also can see that my feelings are also a false "bip" on the radar. But I believe that the subtleness of my mind led me to listen to it anyway. And solidify the thoughts and feelings as "cause and effect", to increase the illusion of time. I have been throught the "Arising and passing away" 3 times before I even tried to meditate, only to discover the feelings of sensations arising moment to moment in Vipassana 1 hour over one month. This became clear, that I am made up of flickers. Which again is content, so this rests kindly back there. Why? Why am I even asking this. I am here cause I asked for it. Whatever happens to me, whatever situation that unfolds, I know it´s due to my subconscious mind, and it wants this. Same with you. I know that I am the creater of my life, and whatever comes it comes. Cause consciousness. It is the most beautiful intersubjective unity, like cells i a vain or networks of streams to combine the similarity to a vain, to create continuity out of singular instant thoughts (I have had the experience of "seing" my thoughts "in my mind" at a distance from me, and it was like a machine gun spitting out singular pictures from what looked like a solid black rock, to create a movie, which blew my mind). How am I to project meaning, if the fundemental projecting is by definition meaninglessness? By fundementally sink into the fact that things just last for an instant, it is not me and I will never ever get satisfied; tells me that whatever is going on I am literally full of shit. Whatever I say or do, I am full of it. How can I create meaning, when there is no fundemental meaning in the first place? Everything is just quiet. And yet everything happens. Where do I go if I already have arrived? This is a post only to be read and answered if you are in the same boat, have experienced it already and came through or if you can identify subjectively with the ongoing "mitote". How do I get on the wave, if the wave is not there. How do i calm the pond from ripples, if there is no pond. How do I clear the sky, when there is fundamentally no sky. If you don`t answer, this will be looked upon positively. Best regards, Christer <3

I believe that every single living being is entitled to everything they need for everlasting bliss. When it comes to human beings, there exist models and theories which outline the needs that all human beings must get met in order to live the longest and happiest life possible. One of these models/theories is Maslow's hierarchy of needs pyramid.

I doubt the Ananda part. At least i can't feel it. That existence and consciousness are essentially the same thing, makes totally sense to me. I literally can see it. But the bliss part is absolutely missing for me.